Framing Studs: Steel vs Wood
Вставка
- Опубліковано 25 вер 2023
- Matt puts both steel and wood studs to the test to figure out which is best for residential use and then tests out a new product from Prosoco that helps bring out the best in both materials when it comes to thermal bridging and water tightness.
Check out the Thermal Grip MVA from Prosoco
prosoco.com/product/thermal-g...
Subscribe and follow my Podcast on Apple or Spotify!
Apple: apple.co/32AOwgU
Spotify: spoti.fi/3FXNg4X
Sign up for our twice-weekly newsletter:
buildshownetwork.com/newsletter
To sponsor a video or advertise with us visit:
www.buildproductions.com
Want to learn more about building? thebuildshow.com/
The Build Show on Instagram: / thebuildshow
Huge thanks to our Show sponsors Builders FirstSource, Polyguard, Huber, Rockwool & Viewrail for helping to make these videos possible! These are all trusted companies that Matt has worked with for years and trusts their products in the homes he builds. We would highly encourage you to check out their websites for more info.
www.bldr.com/
polyguard.com/
www.Huberwood.com
www.Viewrail.com
www.Rockwool.com
Perhaps you could feature a steel-framed house in a future show. Back in 1995, I was Owner/Builder of a house with a detached garage, both 2-story, in FL. Above the monolithic slab the exterior walls, floors & site-built roof trusses were 18ga engineered to 150mph and energy efficient; with all electric appliances and heat pump, the power bill never exceeded $150.
For those that are still reading the exterior was fiber-cement siding, ½” PolyIso to prevent thermal bridging, 5.5” cee studs with 2” flanges for easier sheathing attachment, blown cellulose insulation, and ½” gyp board interior. With a non-combustible structure, the insurance rate matched masonry and weathered 3 hurricanes with no damage. Without a food source, there was also no need for termiticide poison. Although it does require different skills and tools with self-tapping screws, I would never build another house or apartment out of 2x wood.
Great Build!!!
Did it creak? Did you have any cell phone reception inside?
@@TheKingOfInappropriateCommentswhat like there isn't cell phone coverage high rises or malls that are all steel?
They aren't all steel though. Look up faraday cage. @@sparksmcgee6641
This is how I would imagine a residential steel build. Caught me off guard that he said they're non structural studs and that he started talking @ interior insulation vs exterior.
I also think most residential wouldn't use the exterior gypsum.
More educational videos like this Matt! Also, would be nice to have updates on videos you educated us on in the last few years and what has potentially changed.
One thing I've heard that steel is good for in a traditionally framed stick built home is to use C channels for framing in bulkheads. The long lengths are perfectly straight and you attach one to the ceiling and use one for the bottom and fill in between them with wood studs to attach drywall to.
Matt, I have watched and enjoyed your videos for a couple of years. This was one of the most informative I have watched. 23 years ago we built our house with 12 gauge light gauge structural steel framing (including trusses) and have never regretted our decision. We live in Florida and thermal bridging was a concern. I used 1" Polyiso as exterior insulation and 4" open cell foam for cavity fill. When I opened walls for modifications I haven't found any moisture nor mold. In the last 2 decades bulding science and materials have come a long way. To do it over we would incorporate some of the new concepts but still go with steel studs. Thank you for the work you do in bringing interesting, informative videos for our education and entertainment Keep up the good work.
That’s awesome! That thermal break on the outside was key. Plus you don’t get too cold very often. Appreciate the comment
And now with ZipR sheathing, why not use steel everywhere. @@buildshow
Looking to build a steel frame kit for our home. What kind of sheathing did you use and what did you use for cladding?
This is really interesting! Thank you for this.
Thanks Matt. I've been wanting for this video for a long time. I almost wondered why more steel isn't used in residential. My idea for a solution is to put a plastic strip on the outter edge of the metal stud as a thermal break.
Hey Matt! I'm a huge fan of your channel. Something I haven't noticed you covering that I'd love to learn more about is how to apply passive house standards to mid-rise residential buildings like the three-story walk-ups you see all over cities like Chicago. We already know that, pound for pound, these are much, *much* more environmentally friendly than detached single-family homes; I'm very curious to know what would be involved in building a new one to a high standard of quality and sustainability!
@10:28, The steel stud’s heat transfer is greater than a wood stud, however, in a matter of a few hours all the wall materials will reach the same equilibrium temperature. Condensation will occur regardless you used steel stud or wood stud. The steel stud will sustain some self -terminating rusting but not dry rot as in wood stud. Note: Canada is a big producer of framing lumber such as Douglas Fir, hence , don’t be surprised by the study’s conclusion favoring wood stud construction.
Dry rot is a misnomer. For wood to rot it require moisture
I have built with metal stud in domestic applications in the UK for over 20 years. Either for partitions or with thicker gauge to infill on concrete frames. Recently I have used it structurally for a panelised house system. 100mm studs filled with earth wool. Sheathed with OSB then 125mm PIR wraptite membrane void formed with a steel top hat section and then a cement board for either brick slips or render. Plasterboard finish internally applied after fitout on site. This system passed all the necessary fire tests and has minimal thermal bridging and great U (r) values. Light weight and stiff with no shrinkage!
Not for Canadian or Northern Europe climates. Fine for interior walls.
ICF with stucco as the primary siding, and a proper steel roof is my first choice; although 2x6 and in some cases, 2x8, with batt or blown foam insulation are the standards. They're not meant to withstand 200 + years of liveability that comes with old (and often cold and damp) structures built with a timber frame and wattle and daub plaster or thick masonry, but they're generally comfortable.
@@cinders302 steel is more than suitable for northern Europe. The UK is northern Europe. We were building in Scotland with it. Every single modern tower block in London built in the last 30 years will have used LGS in the internal and external walls and it will outlast wood.
I manage our office building and am prepping to bid a commercial build-out on one of our floors. This was incredibly helpful to give me some foundational knowledge to make me not sound like an idiot while talking with contractors.
Trucore steel frames are common in Australia for residential houses. Given there is usually cladding or brick veneer, sarking or construction wrap, particle board and insulation, the difference isn't that much. Climate is more like Florida though, so don't need to endure the extremes of winter.
Exterior walls
Three things
1. Rain screens to drain any water that gets past the veneer. Many sidings are just decorative and require this.
2. Vapor (edit not Air) permeable weather barrier. Moisture going to be in the wall. Needs to get out to avoid moisture issues.
3. Continuous Insulation outboard the wall. All or greater than half the r value outboard.
whether wood or steel.
Cavity insulation just isn’t as effective. Higher degree of installation faults.
Air Permeable weather barrier? Sure you don’t me Vapor permeable?
@@buildshow please do a vid of aluminium framing!!
Any new developments in the ICF world? Last videos from you were from a few years ago, wondering if there are any new developments or best practices.
Did you see my Extreme Panel ICF video last week? One hour of full updates on ICF. Impressive supplier
@@buildshowI found one long video from 13 days ago but didn't see ICF in the description. Is it on this channel?
I'll check it out, I must have missed it. Thanks@@buildshow
In the Caribbean it is common for homes to built with block and concrete with no interior framing and plaster board anywhere including interior rooms. Just plaster both sides of the block and paint or add stone, tile, etc.
@2:56, steel stud for structural application is readily available. Wood stud is structural only when not dry-rot or termite infested. Residential building built with steel stud last much longer than one built with wood stud. Why do homebuilder insists on wood stud? Lower initial cost. Who bears the long term cost? The home owner.
Been wondering for years why we don’t see more steel studs in residential when it’s ubiquitous in commercial. Thank you for doing this.
It's fairly common in South Florida; but the exterior walls are almost always concrete block.
Hard to insulate to prevent heat condution.
@@harveypaxton1232Yeah it makes a lot of sense!
Or structural steel studs. I was surprised that he focused on the non structural commercial studs when comparing to residential framing.
You'd use exterior insulation 1st. The thought of cavity filled insulation would be secondary
In Norway its common to use the steel studs for interior walls in comercial, assuming mostly due firerating you get with that and gipsum walls.. Never seen them on exterior walls at all.
THIS. I tuned in to learn about where we DO see steel studs used; interior non load bearing walls. I’ve never in my life seen a residential build use steel studs on an exterior wall, though I am in Canada so that may have something to do with it.
@6:17, While steel stud reduces the R value of a wall, it is non -combustible. For Single-family residential construction the Building Code doesn’t require fire-rating the structural components, such as wall, column, floor, roof, or shaft. Such construction is commonly designated as VN construction. However, a multi-residential building requires a minimum fire rating of 1-hour. 1 hr fire assembly using steel stud can easily satisfy than wood stud whose fire assembly is a tad more complicated.
This is good information, 25 years ago I built and all steel residential home, but the climate I was in didn't have the condensation issues so I didn't see wet inside the walls. Fast forward to today and seeing the improvements made to residential construction I would follow a different design methodology that removes the issue with thermal bridging. (Think metal SIP) There is a company that does this called Thermasteel but they were in bankruptcy and I don't know if they are out of it yet. If I could make two other points, the steel house was sound reflective, I would definitely use sound proofing in more places. Also TRIM is a pain in the arse have you ever tried to set base board in a metal track... it sucks. I would definitely adjust the height of the house walls so I could put a strip of wood along the base (thickness matching the wallboard) and if necessary along the top for crown molding so trim goes on with pins, there is still a shoot back from the nailer possible, but having wood is Sooo much better than steel track. Oh and buck the windows with wood too.
-MG
P.S. metal floor joists need a de-greaser, the roller form used for manufacturing sometimes leaves oil.
Thank you for the insulation comparison.
Another big reason not used in residential construction is NON-LOAD bearing structure. There usually isn't enough NON-LOAD bearing walls in a residence to justify using both stud styles. They are more expensive and require a different toolbox.
It could make sense in a remodel adding in walls though.
Discussed this with a commercial contractor in the US. Doing interior work.
Is cheaper for them to do metal studs.
the advantages of steel studs are. Pack of studs easier to bring to job site.
Easier to wire and plumb the wall. Sheers kept in the pocket can be used to make adjustments.
Versus
Weight of wood. Not to mention shipping costs.
Have to use a saw to trim. Not to mention the dust.
For this contractor is cheaper to do. And quicker.
Exactly why steel studs are so popular in the UK now.
Matt, love your video's & always insightful. I am building a 2 story home with structural steel studs & I beams for several balconies. One of them being 50 ft long & super heavy. The project has 2x6 studs & steel trusses in California. The area is considered a high risk fire zone. I shear walled the home with radiant barrier & plywood. After watching your video, I wished I had used the rockwool on the exterior. Right now I'm insulating the wall cavities with R23 Rockwool & turning the 24 inch batts horizontal so they will fit tight. Its time consuming with a few more cuts. I've personally framed several homes with wood & it's so much easier to work with. This may not be an orthodox way to go & certainly more time consuming, but the house feels pretty comfortable. Structural studs are also pricey compared to wood. One benefit with steel has been altering the floor plan a few times, since its easier to disassemble & rebuild with less material loss. I don't regret the choice in building materials, but would recommend wood for most residential builds for time & expense.
Speaking of metal, I want to know the community and Matt's thoughts on container homes. They have gained mass popularity as of late and my primary skepticism is the amount of insulation as well as possible moisture / condensation issues due to the difference in temperatures. Especially in northern climates such as Canada. I would love for you professionals out there to shed some light on these types of homes.....
Being that I am late to the party, I might be repeating many comments and concepts. This is not going to be a quick read. Sorry about that Matt.
Whether you use Cold Form Steel (metal studs) or wood-based products, there are many pros and cons to carefully consider. My comments will focus on the metal framing for a residential home that is energy efficient and built for today’s ever changing weather conditions. Feel free to have your opinion and conclusions on this topic. A health conversation is the best thing.
To begin with, using a 3 5/8 or a true 4 inch metal stud in either 16 gauge or upgrading to 14 gauge stud is the optimal size and strength based on the gauge. Yes, they are straight. The width of the metal stud known as the flange size is typically from 1 3/8 to 1 5/8 inches depending on the manufacture. Larger flange sizes are available and will increase the cost. Depending on your load requirement and distance, a header can be from 18-12 gauge. Again, depending on the engineering requirement, you can use a metal stud or switch over to a metal C-Joist that has the same characteristics as the metal stud. The standard flange size for a C-Joist is 2 inches. Each manufacture has various options for blocking from flat stock to u-channels. You can go either 16 inches or 24 inches on center.
Based on today’s pricing, a metal framing members are more expensive than a conventional wood stud, but, not still in the range of a engineered wood product (“EWP”). Just like Builder’s First Choice Ready Frame service using wood products that Matt mentions alot, there are the same for metal framing from various sources and can be found on the web also. The project savings for this comes in the reduced labor cost and faster dry-in time.
In terms of strength, metal studs are extremely strong and hard to bend especially in high winds. The correct gauge is the key to the application. I always prefer going with 16 gauge as a minimum. As somebody here in the comments mentioned earlier, they used 18 gauge studs for their home designed to handle winds up to 150 mph and as already survived 3 hurricanes in various extreme wind speeds. With metal stud, in particular the sizing I like, you do not have to worry about failure as with traditional wood or even some EWP. Regardless which product you use, I cannot stress enough, when it comes to high winds which has various variables, the right hold down connectors to the foundation, beams, or etc.. must be used, as well, as the correct shear products and sheathing to complete the diaphragm. To achieve full strength of metal framing, the stud must be tight to the bottom and top track with no gaps. Otherwise, you must add clips to correct the issue.
Regarding the fire rating of metal framing members, many fire rated assemblies you will find Cold Form Steel framing products as fully certified for extensive burn times more so than the typical 2x wood material. Cold Form Steel, studs or joists needs roughly 2700 degrees F to start melting. With today’s fire load in a typical home with in the last 20 years, you are reaching temperatures around 1800-2000 degrees F. An older home with traditional furnishing will reach 1000-1200 degrees F. Fire departments hate the wood I-joists and have a nickname for them, the Widow Maker. Due to the density of the assembly, the burn through very quickly as compared to the metal. I know that some municipalities do not allow I-Joists in multi-dwelling or multi-story single family homes because of the quick burn rate.
A bonus when using metal framing products, some insurance companies will give you discounts. This also depends on the complete assembly and the materials that have type A rating for fire.
With that said, the drawing back to using metal is the conductivity of heat or cold passing through. A 4 inch wall has more than enough strength to carry the loads from a floor and roof. A 6 inch metal wall will not make a difference in terms of the energy rating. As building science has now taught us, exterior continuous insulation (“ECI”) is more effective as your energy barrier. Additionally, it keeps the dew point away from the interior of your home and eliminates the interior condensation problems that lead to mold. Thus, the additional cost insulating the home for the best BTU Retention rating.
My prefer method is to sheath the exterior with your typical 7/16 inch OSB and then add a Nailbase consisting of 2 inchs of a polyiso product giving me an rating between R12-14. Depending on your zone, you might need additional material or less. The nailbase material I currently like now is a thick Magnesium Oxide product for increase impact resistance. This will require special self-tapping screws to install the Nailbase into the metal framing. The Nailbase is coated with Prosco’s Cat5 system for the WRB and follow up with a rain screen. The interior gets 2 inches of closed cell spray foam. This will give me a cavity rating close to R30 an effective rating over R20 pending on the type of windows and doors used. Moreover, my prefer method is far superior to fiberglass insulation, the best BTU Retention, and keeping the overall wall depth as short as possible.
There are many other products that can be used to insulate a metal frame structure.
Another additional cost when you use heavier gauge metal studs comes to installing your gypsum wall board. Some sort of strapping must be used to make that process faster with out struggling. Strapping can be plywood strips or lite gauge metal furring channels.
The other additional cost comes to the tools you need and the type of connections for wood-to-metal and metal-to-metal. As I did not go into any assembly methods, for the builder, the upfront cost in investing in tools will be in the faster labor times. The new high pressure air guns are worth looking into.
If you made it this far, I would like to thank you for your time. Indeed, an interesting topic.
I wanted to thank you for your thorough and unbiased assessment of the pros and cons of this new technology. Your industry insight and experience are an asset to the trade!
I've seen basement walls built with metal studs both in western Canada & Ontario. Vertical stripes of condensation on the interior of the drywall on 24" centers is a dead giveaway. These were slumlord specials, so it's probably safe to assume someone cheaped out on the insulation install.
Great video Matt!!
So what I’m seeing is we need a metal T-stud?! Imagine a spilt metal structural stud with a composite thermal break
Interesting idea
Yes! Great idea! There are already holes punched for wires/pipes, maybe you add more holes but reinforce them with some sort of insulator. I think it might be hard to have the two metal sides completely separated due to structural reasons, but maybe...
Would you please provide the link to the Canadian study on condensation that you referenced?
I soon will be moving from California into a brand new house in Chile framed in steel. It has 4 inch EPS on the exterior then covered in stucco. The wall cavities have fiberglass. The walls have no sheathing and instead use steel straps/bracing for rigidity. The second floor is a poured slab on some sort of corrugated metal. Its supposed to be much more energy efficient than most tract housing in that country. It was very interesting to see something so different than what im used to here in the US.
❤️❤️
Been looking at doing a Barndo with a prefab barn as the base but looking to add 2x4s to the perlins so that I can add sheething and break the metal to outside contact and filling adding 2 inches of closed cell foam before putting batts to fill in the cavities any thoughts?
all the steel framing buildings I've seen, here in Québec, had continous foam insulation outside the the frame which negates a lot of the issues of steel framing.
Steel resi builder here, that's what we do!
I think most steel builders would focus on a continuous exterior insulation vs the cavity fill.
Yeah use zip system R 3-9 sheathing and you’re good to go
This brings up something I have commented on before, with no good answers. It is acceptable to have steel studs in commercial installations (think strip malls, light commercial, retail, etc.), where the exterior wall is essentially a curtain wall of steel studs, with the remainder like noted in this video (gypsum exterior for example). If one tries to do the same thing in Residential then there are a multitude of objections, also related to things noted in this video. My questions is why is there a such a difference in practice and acceptable structures between commercial and residential? They contradict each other. Just curious to hear thoughts from others.
Can be Apples to oranges
What kind of insulation batt fits into the steel stud, since it is hollow compared to the wood studs being solid? Condensation is the reason I’m going with wood too, glad Matt covered that.
The beauty of metal studs in commercial interior walls is they are easy to take down when a new tenant moves in and needs a new floor plan. I think that's called "build out". They're non load bearing, can be removed or added and easy to run data/electric to. There's really no reason to use metal studs in residential in the USA.
And they are recyclable.
The fact that you can get 1 or 1000 steel studs and they will all be perfectly straight and will stay straight is a pretty good reason. Especially if you have really tall/large walls with big windows that let in tons of natural light which will highlight the smallest imperfections in the walls.
@@00HiGhGuY00Properly framed walls straight edged after roof load installed can be just as straight as metal studs. I have seen metal studs rot out from moisture, have bulges in them from too much backing. They are easy though
I would use 2 x 6, or larger wood studs and 5/8, or thicker, plywood sheathing for structural strength. After my experiences in hurricanes (including Hurricane Andrew) I will avoid all oriented strand board. They are poor with water and wind driven debris.
The Prosoco R-GUARD waterproofing looks like a good product to use on the sheathing. Rockwool Comfortboard exterior insulation and James Hardie Siding makes the wall complete.
The Prosoco masonery anchors look good. Is their an equivalent product for attaching siding?
I like ICF structures as well. I would always use ICF for basements.
Thank you for all the good ideas.
Even my local lumber yard 2 x 4's are 9's, 10s, and 11s. So much crook, bow, cupping, and twist. I wish I could buy 2 x 4 lsl's
You can buy 2x LVL or LSL studs. Usually if you order you can get them in 1-2 days.
In Canada they are difficult to find. I end up buying 11 3/4" and ripping them down to 3 1/2". Walls are straight and will stay straight. I can never go back to lumber. Lsls are a bit cheaper and even straighter since there are no overlapping veneers. Also no wax that the Lvls have.
How would ICF with 3” of exterior Rockwool and stone siding and ICF roof with slate shingles hold up in a fire?
Hey matt and everyone!!
What about a steel stud in a hot and humid climate? Could the external surface of the stud wall become cold enough that condensation happens on the outside, due to the outside hot and humid air?
Cavity insulation with steel studs is not a good use of insulation. With steel studs, it’s better to put all the insulation on the outside. Also, that R7.1 number for a steel 2x6 with cavity insulation didn’t indicate the gauge of steel. A 12 gauge stud is about three times thicker than a 20 gauge stud, so it’s about three times more conductive. One more thing: 16 inch spacing with 2x6 steel studs doesn’t make any sense in residential construction - even with extreme wind and seismic loads. Reasonable spacing would be 24 inch OC.
When it comes to thermal insulation i like thr Tstuds
Great product but never has seen a ramp up in production unfortunately
does the plastic collar on the anchor give a little r value between the metal screw and clip?
I too prefer wood framing. One excetion I have is the framing for the entry door. I would frame the wall that the front door is in with steel. Along with installing a commercial door frame and door. Mostly to make it EXTREMELY difficult to kick the door in.
Lol where are you that kicking the door in is a major issue? Never crossed my mind to protect against that boogie man.
Do you still need a moisture barrier on the inside in a very cold climate? I would think you would want to keep the moist air away from the steel even if it is better insulated.
Another reason to go with steel framing for multiunit residential is the number of arson events on those building sites, at least that's true in the SF Bay Area.
I drove by a taco bell yesterday being rebuilt and was shocked to see it being wood framed. Steel may not catch fire but every architect that I mentored under always argued, "I prefer to be stuck in a wood building on fire, wood has to burn and will still hold while steel weakens as it is heated".
If I ever get to build a house I want 3 to 5 foot thick concrete /stone walls with heavy duty steel i beams for structural support and a concrete slab with a decorative metal roof
QSR are typically wood framed a little structural steel sometimes steel framing behind fryers for the fire resistance. I once was a construction manager for one of the largest franchisees in the US that owned a several different brands all over the country and this was typical of all the builds throughout the country and different brands (ie Taco Bell, Burger King, etc.). I came from a commercial GC before that role and had to learn wood framing because all I knew was steel framing from previous experience
How do you provide an adequate thermal break (stop condensation) around window and door openings when using LGS construction?
Basically, when using metal studs you want to insulate the exterior of your house (which is what should be done these days, especially in colder climates).
No. Look at communities burned down by wildfires. Steel studs, metal roofs, siding and cars, gone. I rebuild after wildfires and we burn test with the ICC and Intertek. It takes MGO, fiber cement, concrete, Rockwool and intumescent coatings to build fire resistant homes. A propane torch doesn't simulate a wildfire with wind driven flames and 1500 degrees.
Way back in the day I asked an architect why he specified huge glulam beams instead of steel for the house we were building and he said the wooden beams would last much longer in a fire. Steel would lose it's strength and collapse long before the wood would.
Actually fire rated construction is about insulating the structure from the heat of the fire.
Fire mitigation though is always about providing enough time to escape. Enough time to fight the fire and prevent spread.
Glulam or heavy timber anticipates some surface charring to protect the meat of the structure
Steel or stud frames. You rely more on layers to insulate the structure.
With intumescent coatings and fire treated lumber used in a special and specific area.
Thoughts on that fire resistant Starlite material slathered on studs already painted with an intumescent coating?
To be fair, does any house survive that kind of wildfire? I feel like that’s just a write of at that point no matter what you’ve built it out of.
Have you done an episode showing damage to wooden studs/structures by (Formosan) subterranean termites?
Trade offs between wood vs steel studs.
The best place to see damage is by asking pest control companies to show you serious damage by subterranean termites.
Boric acid on your bottom sills... keeps all "all critters" away.
What about sound echoing in steel studs?
EIFS (exterior insulating foam system) is far superior to exterior rock wool (rock wool is a carcinogen in the EU like asbestos). EIFS is glued on--zero thermal penetrations! Please cover EIFS comparisons also in the future.
Rockwool comfort batt or R-zip system?
Incorrect. Exterior wall studs are a much higher gauge than those you show. I'm in commercial construction. You're using studs intended for interior walls. You are correct that most commercial construction use I-beam or reinforced concrete construction and a lot of smaller buildings, such as schools, use concrete block construction. However, in places between the steel or concrete columns, a heavy gauge stud is used. Many times, a building often has a grand entrance with high ceilings and it'll be completely framed with thick rigid structural studs. Most modern commercial construction uses either Rockwool or spray foam exterior insulation. Fiberglass is mostly used on interior walls for acoustic reasons between rooms.
The main reason steel isn't used IMHO is that builders do not want to train their crews to build with steel. And especially here in the Southwest where a significant amount of the residential labor (in both custom and tract built homes) are 'undocumented' and being paid significantly less than commercial, usually union, carpenters. With modern code, Zip R sheathing is almost required and would eliminate thermal bridging. Given the other advantages of steel, for me it is that it is STRAIGHT, there are significant savings in downstream trades, and ultimate finish quality. I am seeing multi-million dollar ($10,000,000.00 to $100,000,000.00) homes being built here in Las Vegas using wood stud walls, OXB sheathing and building paper (Tyvek) wrap with "blue" paper as flashing. It almost makes you ill to see. Slightly off topic, but they are also building almost 5 story 100+ unit apartment buildings, in wood. To wrap up, I would advocate to move all structural to steel stud (which is also recyclable) and use wood for real finishes, to bring the nature inside, instead of hiding it in the walls.
So they can't afford to design and then fabricate red-iron steel frame posts, beams, purlins and sectional assemblies in a mod-yard somewhere, for a $ 50 MM project? Setting those components with an erection crew, modern crane or two and certified ironworkers would be ten times faster and require 5 times fewer people on site. And nearly every piece would fit perfectly the first time.
Oh they can 'afford' to do it. But that would mean re-training their crews and ultimately costing "more" for the first couple of projects, until the new crews got up to speed. There just aren't enough trained steel crews, because no one is willing to train them. They will continue to 'do it as they always have' because its what they know, and they know how much money they can make. And really, because no one is demanding they do better. It is also a failure of government, shocking, since these 5 story wood buildings are built because that is the tallest you can build type V construction. So it is effectively limiting density as well. If government banned Type V construction for certain types of projects, then you would quickly see steel and concrete take over and see significantly higher and denser projects. Which, while some don't like, are desperately needed in an urban environment. @@armslength2618
I was wonder if metal stud is constanly wet, will it rust? If not can I used galvanized round metal tube as fence column ditectly in the ground? I am in Southen California.
I don’t think heat loss on the steel studs (thermal bridging) is that big of a deal considering the thickness of the studs. They actually create a larger space for insulation. Condensation is a really good point- I had never heard of that study before. The big issue with steel studs is they warp when heating up which can pop the boards right off of it. Engineers in Canada are starting to build much taller buildings out of wood now because in a fire the really thick structural wood members burn on the outside, but will stay strong inside, and don’t warp.
How about the LVL/Versa studs? Or using wood studs inside steel (strengthening)? I guess overkill but I've built some steel walls for interior with wood as reinforcing without issue. Ofcourse insulation wasn't as critical since not exterior walls... so much easier building in steel but then a whole different trade!
Inserting LVL or any other engineered wood product into a metal stud is overkill. Depending the gauge (16 or 14, the lower the number, the stronger it is) you use for the metal stud it is equal or stronger than you think.
I use Lvls whenever I can on my builds. I build modern houses where perfection is needed. Today's lumber is garbage. Granted my clients can afford it.
Be sure to consult your architect as to where wood or steel can or can't be use if you are not familiar with building codes.
Yes great point
What about a hybrid construction, meaning exterior walls using wood and interior walls using steel where thermal insulation is not an issue but a straight stud for the drywall is important.
If you do enough insulation outside of your house, that thermal transfer wont happen on steel stud walls.
I've been drywalling a lot of steel frame houses this year in Australia, here steel is used primarily for termite and fire resistance, and the age old argument that "steel is dead straight", yes the STUD is straight, but then add the nogging and a diagonal brace or two and then electrician screws his switch plates on with a button head screw, which all cross over right where the drywall joint is and then you have a big bulge in the wall, and there is not much you can do about it.
Why are you using noggins in steel studs?
How about ThermaSteel panels? I asked Steve to do a program on it but have not seen it yet.
8:25 Canadian Mortgage and Housing _Corporation_ . It is a Crown corporation created shortly after WW2 to increase the housing supply for returning veterans and their new families - ie. the start of the Baby Boom. Over time its responsibilities have grown to include things like construction research, loan assistance, and mortgage backed securities.
I've seen steel studs in condos in Toronto (built ≈2012) and NYC (built ≈2008). Are there different rules for multifamily buildings?
What about using steel studs for interior walls only in a SIPs house?? Cheaper to get the perfectly straight studs than wood LVL studs….right??
Concrete is the way to go. Light frame, no matter the frame material, is much more susceptible to fire
If concrete/stone is turning to ash or burning the humans are already dead
What about building with reinforced concrete as inner wall, rockwool in the middle (with a vapor barrier) and bricks outside? How would the R value be and the burn risk?
Why not just build an ICF with a brick ledge?
@@silverbackag9790 As far as i know, reinforces concrete is much tougher than ICF, and here in Denmark we dont use/got ICF. And if you have precast concrete pieces, then its much faster to build like this. Then you can have the concrete put up in under a week for a big house, and then the plumber and electrician can start prepping the house, while the masons finish outside.
@@dennisoestermann1880 ICF is reinforced. Rebar is placed in it as the walls are stacked.
@@silverbackag9790 And what is faster, put down a load af blocks with morter in between or use a crane to put down a whole wall at once?
My High School drafting instructor told us that the steel framed building we were in would collapse faster than a wood framed building in a fire. The steel gets hot in a fire and goes solf and collapses. Doesn't have to melt.
I heard that there was a problem with some fast growth tree studs.
We live in India our house entirely concrete wall sir what is the disadvantage between concrete and the framing system❤
Matt + propane torch = yes I want to watch the video… 🤣
Don’t think he was trying to show wildfire but thanks for the info
So thermal R-value is worse for steel studs. What about for sound transmission? Seems to be better due to vibrations being converted to heat. At least that's my impression in commercial buildings with steel studs and batt insulation between internal partitions.
I think the additional mass of wood and it's other properties tend to dampen vibrations. Steel stud assemblies end up more like a drum. But put rockwool in both and problem solved! (unless you are making a studio or something, then use that fancy drywall/fasteners)
Metal is a better conductor. That applies to electric, temperature and vibration ie sound.
metal studs are used for structural all the time in commercial construction
In residential too
@@nm3547 ya id believe that
And an R of around 1.4 per inch for softwoods.
How's steel studs not considered renewable, we can recycle them easier than wood imo
Steel studs have been cheaper here since COVID.
As electricians we use fireproofing for residential
Matt, did you mention in the video you are sponsored by Rockwool? You said a lot of nice things about them, but it's not until the 14th line of the video description that you mention they are a channel sponsor.
Im in engineering and another reason steel studs arent very good is they dont perform very well in seismic zones for shear. Steel studs were originally for interior demising walls and partitions walls. Wood can rot but I have also seen steel studs rust out in homes in a short time too.
Use rust resistant steel instead of the cheapest mild steel available? Granted that cost more.
HOW WOULD U DEAL W/ SIDING ? IF U WOULD PUT ROCKWALL ON A HOUSE.
So the wood at the back is fine at 95F but the steel is hot at 96f and you could feel the heat.
No bias there at all.
Biggest drawback on using metal studs is the. Fact that basically any screwed connection only catches one turn of the screw. Over time the small changes in building air pressure will loosen screws in metal studs.
From the point of view in the fire service, steel buildings fail and collapse at least three times faster than wood buildings. Also charred wood tends to start resisting further fire damage for a longer period of time. Both steel and wood off gas under heated conditions and steel off gassing of the galvanizing is more toxic.
Nearly 100% of American houses have been remodeled (100% because some houses are remodeled several times). Most of us do not have the tools or the ability to 'work' with steel studs. I would also have no idea how to hang a mirror or picture with metal studs. But the worst is the 'fire demonstration'. Studs almost never come in contact with an open flame as an initiator of a fire. If the open flame is on the wooden studs, it is way past 'starting'. The fact is, almost all house fires start in the kitchen and almost all kitchen fires start on the cooktop. So the solution is not to build with steel but to install induction cooktops which are almost impossible to start a fire.
The tools to work with steel are a pair of snips. It's really much easier than wood.
As for hanging things you use screws. But that kind of illustrates your other point, people dont know anything about steel.
You can metal frame all day with a pair of tin snips and an impact driver. No nail gun, compressor. They are much lighter so not as tired. And it’s much easier to build soffits and slip track for a basement. As far as hanging a picture? Use a screw just like you would for a wood stud. Steel suds come in different gages so some can actually be used for load bearing walls, but the real strength comes when you sheet them. Just like wood studs. They really are easier to work with. As he says in the video the problem is not constructability but R value and cost.
Cooking related fires only account for about half of house fires. Heating systems and electrical appliance fires (a ton of those related to dryer vents and lint traps being clogged) make up the majority of the rest.
Just wanted to clear up that not "almost all house fires start in the kitchen on cooktops".
Matt, wouldn't it be better to build with ICF's all the way around?? I mean, I think it's great that all these products are available, but all those added materials cost and so does all the labor.. Aren't we better off with insulated Concrete Forms?? Topping everything else, I don't think you can beat the strength of them and for places like here in Florida, I think it's a no brainer!!!
The problem with ICF is that the vulnerable insulation is on the outside of a sandwich, and structural wythe (thermal mass) is on the inside of it. Exactly the opposite to what you want, at least around here. I almost built a place with it after seeing a small hotel under construction, but after researching those materials it became ever clearer that you'd want to use factory tray-built prestressed c/c panels with a thick panel of insulation on the inside. If you wanted to use residential concrete. Of course proper footing prep, and a crane crew (and maybe welder) would be needed for erection. Still, if designed properly it would go up super-fast and lock together as good as anything else.
@@armslength2618Can you recommend a supplier for that?
@@MadLadsAnonymous LaFarge Precast, and a couple others I'm aware of. Check out commercial and industrial p/c concrete factories in your area.
Maybe I am missing something, but what I have seen done with the outside is stucco or masonry board. The elements cant get to it through either. And the idea of the foam keeping the suns heat off the concrete, (thermal mass), in Florida is a great thing!! You will not get the same results with precast. The sun will heat the concrete and the concrete will hold that heat for many hours after the sun has set. All insulation has a saturation point. Luckily, we do not have the suns heat 24 hours per day. So keeping that heat complexly away from your living space in very hot climates is crucial. @@armslength2618
Don’t know if you touch on it, but I’ve heard the steel studs can actually do worse in a fire because they transfer heat into the building faster. Whereas wood will char and insulate itself slowing the spread.
Wood didn’t slow the spread of fire much in Lahaina last month
@@crikescrikes2465 okay… not the same thing but cool. These are like… published studies and numbers you can look at. Don’t believe me go look at mass timber fire ratings and why they’re fire rated, but I highly doubt you will.
Interesting. I’m not sure
@@buildshow Hello
I do work for a condo townhouse complex that has mold issues on drywall, steel studs showing through the wall ( like you see a shadow ), all the issues you described in the video. Is there any way to address the moisture/mold on drywall on the inside without tearing out the siding and adding exterior insulation on the outside of the building?
This is exactly what I thought was happening, they got an engineer and did useless caulking and spray foam insulation but it hasn't fixed the issue.
100% not true
@16:02, this dude is promoting wood stud over steel stud by emphasizing the superior energy conservation property of wood stud framing over steel stud framing. As not all building are located in very cold or hot geography, the higher R value of a wood stud framing is not that persuasive. As most building uses 2x4 framing rather than 2x6 framing, the video’s showing the R14.4 value of steel stud framing is sufficient. Finally, it’s the total cost of ownership of a building that matters, not just R values. Steel stud framing doesn’t warp, crack, split, rot, mold, or suffer terminate infestation - all vulnerabilities of wood stud.
I also thought that was an odd set of things to point out/ use as a use case.
Screw performance alone would be enough for me to never even consider buying a house with sheet metal studs. Wood is forgiving and errant holes can be repaired easily.
So your statement that curtainwalls dont use structural metal at 6:54 is not accurate. They are always structural and the stud gauges are dependent on load data determined by the engineer.
Like you said, IBC 2018 dictates CI minimums. Here in NC the min is R-7 in the CI, this overcomes the Thermal transmission issues. These minimums are market specific to address regional factors. It is not enforced in all markets, so our conversation should revolve on adoption and compliance to IBC.
steel studs are great until you have to make any change or hang a TV
Metal a nightmare: to work with, to cut, virtually impossible to screw anything into(other than a high powered sheet rock gun which eventually will rust). A nightmare to carry safely, can bend over your knee(most of the gauge used in residential homes); not to mention hanging anything. Kitchen's a nightmare hanging cabinets, barn doors, or shiplap. Metal studs. Good for one thing: the scrap heap.
You got it all wrong man!
@@user-vt5vv7dh7d How so?
Give us a credible response with content & facts to support.
Caveat- steel are resistant to termites!
Within the video surface great points from both materials(interesting to get other builders to chime in their field experiences)
This video well presented per usual- we gave our 2 cents based on actual consistent field based real world experience- just like several other interesting comments within all his threads.
Thank you Matt for creating a space for these reflective & productive discussions!
Wood is a nightmare where we are: expensive, no standard cut sizes, big variations in size when using nominally equal pieces of wood, big variations is strength in nominally equal types of wood, not straight, not properly dried, gets moldy in the humid climate, gets eaten by termites, does not last.
Metal studs on the other hand have none of the above issues, are relatively inexpensive and quite easy to work with in our experience. We used it for all our residential interior walls. Even the local McDonalds was build using only light metal framing. Well as you can guess this is not in North America, but in the Philippines 😉
Thermasteel walls have no thermal bridging.
In the middle of building a tiny house with steel studs and I don’t have much good to say about them.
steel frame only needs to get hot before it falls down
wood still has plenty of strength even with a stud 70% gone
you wont ever catch me running into a steel frame house because its probably only 20 seconds away from falling down
Matt, I think you have a few disingenuous arguments there in trying to compare the same construction details between wood and steel; obviously the wall detail needs to be adapted to the materials you are using. Aside from sound insulation I would be surprised if any experienced builder thinks batt insulation is useful in a metal stud wall today. But, they likely appreciate having the stud bays free for trades, and if they really need the extra insulation then a staggererd stud wall with a rock. wool layer between the studs can get you an extra R19.
Also, one of the great benefits of light-gauge metal framing is being able to roll the sections on-site.
I'm still not sure if steel is a "better" material in general terms compared to wood, but the insulation is likely not the best place to start the comparison.
👏👏
OK, I am totally CONFUSED 😱, as I have watched a Number of your past videos - and you have “promoted” (MANY times) various Steel products (both roof and framing).
WHAT GIVES?!?😵💫🤷♂️
(Make up your mind!!!😰😩)
Talk to professionals in the field.
I wood framed 11 yrs, steel stud framed going on 16 yrs. I prefer steel framing. Way easier.
And yes stud studs can be structural
But always use what's best for you
Your friendly neighborhood reminder that "conducting electricity" is entirely different to "conducting heat". You're welcome.
How about conducting a train?
Nonsense.
What rings as untrue to you?
@@buildshowI would strongly suggest talking to a contractor that does metal stud residential work; it might not be a perfect material but you can do some things with metal that are "impossible" with wood. Sure, you need to create a full assembly if you are using it in an exterior wall, but the only difference there compared to wood is the level of forgiveness.
Metal stud roof trusses, trade-ready joists... there are a lot of great systems that can work well for residential builders... especially if you are having trouble getting the skilled labor you need.
I opened up the walls of a bathroom during remodel only to find steel studs in residential. That crap cost so much time and money. Doubled the cost of that project. No, don’t do it. Steel studs are awful.
God's material, which god?
First of all you'd be using cold-rolled steel for the wrong application. Steel is really for primary structural frames in 'red-iron' format, taking and transforming very heavy point loads and structural forces over long spans. Analogous to timber-frame construction but of a much higher capacity than hardwood could ever achieve.
Stick-built wood on the other hand is for immediately resisting mostly even and relatively small forces over the surface of a limited-dimension stud wall and resisting gravity force constantly along the sill plate. Stick-built was invented for huge numbers of cheap hammer-bangers throwing together standard small-guage wood pieces of standard nominal dimensions, something that only a post-war factory establishment could create. Cold-rolled steel studs just tries to erroneously duplicate that application, bastardizing the true capabilities of steel. So don't do it. Use the timber-frame model instead when deploying steel and just use the red-iron variant.
As far as the CMHC study goes, of course you'll get condensation in your batten insulation if you don't seal off all inside moisture with inside poly vapor barrier and don't leave a way for any residual trace moisture to dry to the outside. Steel studs don't cause condensation, regardless of its other limitations. All vapor-saturated, air-filled insulation will get it in cold exterior weather as vapor hits dew-point in the middle of a batten. Steel studs just move the dew point an inch further indoors and closer to the stud
And unless that roll-on rubber compound is perfectly vapour--permeable (doubtful) it will simply trap water inside your walls, quickly creating a soggy mess at the outside surface. I highly doubt gyprock sheathing or masonry is any better either at passing vapour to the outside. Why would you even use that against a heated building?
I believe exterior masonry is typically constructed with weep holes at the bottom and top, which should allow vapor out.
@@kc9scott Those are very probably built with weep holes or slots, but that is for liquid condensation to pass out after it has formed, no? Sort of like in old style window assemblies. AFAIK masonry is also built with a bit of an air-gap stand-off away from a liquid-shedding and vapor-porous membrane such as tar paper, but we don't use external masonry around here like they do down east so I don't claim any expertise in that. The masonry just becomes a kind of wind- and gross water-resistant wall against rain blasts, but will still trap lots of vapor inside that stand-off because vapor doesn't get through.