CLARIFICATION: I should have been more clear (so my bad) but the goal here was to really rate the general applicability and use cases of a given cantrip. Pretty much every spell or thing in the game is going to have a "if you do X,. Y and Z thing, then it's busted as hell!" kind of thing. As a result, it's incredibly difficult to give any sort of rating based on that. Something I rated C or F might be GIGA S+++++ in the right build, but it's next to impossible to control for that. This isn't me saying that I got everything spot on, I'm sure there's room for improvement, but I just wanted to give some additional context. Also, Shillalegh should probably be higher.
I personally don’t think the clarification is needed. Your description of F Tier says “They rarely offer enough benefit to justify picking over stronger options unless for niche or flavor reasons.” Imo that definition leaves the door open for wiggle room for things like Chill Touch to have a scenario where it’s good and useful. Reducing healing, or being used with a familiar are both such cases imo.
@zarekodynski9077 thanks! I tried to emphasize the importance of the definitions of the tiers at the beginning, seems like some may have skipped haha. There’s ALWAYS going to be wiggle room and I used those definitions to kind of build that into the list.
@@InsightCheck I see this as a good thing, after all if you have people defending every possible cantrip it means that the game has interesting options and build diversity, (besides the increased engagement for the video), thanks for the video and keep up the good work
@JorgePlasencia-ou4xq honestly you raise a good point. And I think the fact that the largest sections of my list are ranges in the middle, I think that shows they’ve generally done a good job at creating few extreme outliers!
Blade ward is excellent for Fighters. In particular, giving up one attack as an Eldritch knight for a concentration ac bonus for the rest of combat is solid. Also, a fighter that has a magic initiate is ok casting it on a turn where they might not be in range as they approach. Being a high ac class with no competing concentration choices and an innate con save works great with this cantrip.
@@ErickRedcloudcould do both. Dodge + Blade Ward is crippling if you can get both. It’s a decent setup if you want to keep your party safe as a solo front-liner and you chose eldritch knight or arcane trickster. Bonuses like these get better the more of them you have, that’s why well rounded parties do better in most situations.
My first complant with the cantrips is that Prestidigitation Druid Craft Elementism and thaumaturgy even exisit they should be features of there class because this is how all spell casters start to master magic. That is like saying you forget to how to crawl because you run marathons.
@@burtonbarnett6293 I let full caster do anything that does no damage or what another cantrip does. Illusion or shape element no biger then 1 foot cube, make a non word sound, move an abject no more then one pound, or any other effect of the 4 spells .
I think Thornwhip should've been in C. A cantrip giving you battlefield control is very powerful and builds can be made around it. For example, that 1d6 cantrip becomes a cantrip that causes 1d6+4d4 if you cast Spike Growth first.
13.5 average damage and some movement for the cost of a spell slot, and two actions is totally fine. Once cast of guiding bolt at level one does 14 damage and grants advantage to the next hit. Thornwhip is fine.
Think you are sleeping on Thorn Whip . There are sooo many devastating area of effect spells that you can pull an enemy into with that effect. That damage is fine. The pull is where it’s at. It’s also worth noting it is the only Melee cantrip that has reach. Which also gives it good versatility and a cool niche.
A fair point but still very niche. It only pulls the creature 10 feet closer so that AOE will need to be in a very specific area on the battlefield. It can absolutely work, but is still pretty limited. For context though, I love the idea of the spell and have tried to make it work a bunch of times.
@@InsightCheckAlso, yes it does piercing damage, but it's piercing damage which isn't resisted as much as mundane, at least with the current versions of monsters.
@MethosJK9 this is very true but does seem to have gone away in 2024. Everywhere we once saw that distinction now just refers to it as BPS without any qualifier. We will need to wait for the Monster Manual for full confirmation but it seems like it is gone.
It’s not just AOE spells either. Forced movement towards the caster is a really potent option in a lot of situations. It doesn’t require there to be a place for them to stand. I think this one is amazing.
@InsightCheck so Battlemaster is a bad subclass for fighters? 10 out of 30 feet is still plenty of room to not get caught up in battle and move around freely. The AOE is under the assumption that the caster would even, which there are more than situational times where you'd want to not use an AOE spell. Literally every single battle can benefit from forced movement, regardless of damage. I don't see how a cantrip that can be useful in every battle is only situational.
True strike is S tier for me. Use it on a light crossbow and at level 1 you have 1d8+3 radiant damage on an attack roll, which is 3 more than the clerics are doing with sacred flame, and with an 80ft range. I’m playing Curse of Strahd soon and this should be my signature spell in early levels.
This tier list only counts for full casters. Spells like Blade Ward are huge for more limited casters (initiates). You will be able to precast it multiple times per day in my opinion - adventurers are ambushed but more often they drive the action forward and venture to places where combats can occur.
I concur, especially with you other comment on Shillelagh, this list is really focused on full backline spell casters and not really gish or other type of build possibilities
@@floofzykitty5072 Also, if you are a High Elf, you can pick it at Lvl 1. Later on, swap it out for something else when you have other stuff to concentrate on.
Thorn Whip: I have seen this cantrip change the course of campaigns. On-demand forced movement is wildly good, especially at lower levels. It defeats grapples. It sends enemies plummeting down cliff faces and off bridges. It's a melee spell attack with a 30 ft. range(!), so you aren't forced to roll with Disadvantage when casting in melee. Anybody can access it now via origin feat Magic Initiate: Druid. It is the most tactical cantrip in the game. But I actually appreciate you rage-baiting us Thorn Whip lovers for clicks and you have succeeded, my hat's off to you!!! :)
Inflict Wounds used to at least have a good niche use when an enemy gets up in your face or if an enemy is paralyzed you could run up and upcast a mega auto-crit on them but now it's weaker and not an attack roll😔
@@MethosJK9Shocking Grasp needed the nerf due to design decisions with new creature stat blocks but getting rid of the advantage against metal armor wearing enemies was just kicking the dog while it's down
Shillelagh being in B is crazy to me. Any character can grab it and whole builds are built around it (see Treatmonk's recent struggles with the sword and board fighter). It also is the only way a Blade Warlock can dual wield SAD. It completely changes your character.
Sure, I can see a reasonable argument for moving it up a tier. It’s also worth noting though that nearly every spell is going to have some incredible combo that works with one specific class or subclass. It’s impossible to rate things based on that. This is more of a generally applicable list.
@@InsightCheck I get it but this is the only spell on this list that allow you to change the way you build your character and dump more stats and still get extra attack. I don't think that's an edge case, I think it's an emerging meta for many classes and caster subclasses.
@@apjapkispeaking of, there’s no reason shillelagh should only be restricted to a club/staff flavor wise. It does matter for weapon mastery, but otherwise… bear with me here. What is a sword without a blade? A hilt. What weapon type is a hilt? Well, closest thing is probably a club. Casting Shillelagh on it gives you the equivalent of a force rapier/one handed longsword… a force sword? A LIGHTSABER? That’s right, new shillelagh gives you a lightsaber and I’m totally allowing my players to skin it as a light saber. One of them is also using it to be like Riven from league of legends - broken sword is a club but shillelagh temporarily reforges the blade with runic magic
I think True Strike is absolutely S tier, the ability to combine effects that improve weapons with effects that improve cantrips is so powerful from a build perspective. Any class with weapon mastery and/or fighting styles that can get true strike can combine them for great effects; True Strike using a Vex weapon (shortbow, rapier, or hand crossbow) is comparable to Guiding Bolt; the only mastery that doesn’t synergize with true strike is Nick (probably).
True strike as per RAW doesn’t allow you to benefit from weapon masteries. True strike is a magic action, not the attack action. Weapons masteries per RAW only work on the attack action. So if you want to use all that you said in your comment, you have to homebrew it
@c_l_a_d_d_i_x this is definitely not accurate. Weapon Masteries do not require the attack action. You can use them on Opportunity Attacks or with True Strike. There is nothing that states the attack action is required. The only specification is often that an attack roll is required.
@@InsightCheck if that is how you want to interpret it. the PHB states it requires you to make a melee attack roll (for the melee weapons). While true strike lets you change the stat modifier for which you make an attack or damage roll, you are still making a spell attack roll even if the SPELL itself allows you to hit with you melee weapon, you are making the roll as a result of you casting a spell.
Why does everyone treat darkvision like it let's you see perfectly in darkness. You still have disadvantage on any perception checks, since it counts as dim light
I’m not sure where I suggested it was the same or equivalent but it does diminish the need for light sources as some vision is often better than no vision. Darkvision with disadvantage on perception checks can be better than any light source if your goal is to stay hidden. It’s all just a question of perspective. Better in some, worse in others.
@InsightCheck I play humans. We don't get dark vision. So 3 out of my 4 characters took the light cantrip. Because if your DM is doing it RAI, traps and other hidden objects/creatures should be harder to detect in Dim light. Only 1 of my characters doesn't have light and it's my Shadow Sorcerer for obvious reasons. So if you play a lot of nonhuman characters I can see why you think the spell is useless. Sure you could take Darkvision the spell but....why? It's a whole spell known. "Hmm...Disintigrate vs Darkvision. Which should I take...?" As for stealth, not all characters are stealthy. In parties I run my characters in, I always suggest a point person, someone who is stealthy and has good Perception to scout ahead 60 feet or so from the light bearing, heavy armor wearing group trailing behind. Familiars are also good scouts if your party has one. And like the OP said, even those with Darkvision would do well to use light sources to better help them find clues/treasures/dangers. It's a cantrip and costs nothing to turn on and off.
@@007ohboy I play humans almost exclusively, so I agree with a lot of what you are saying. i will say though I find it a hard sell as a mundane item does it almost as well and while not everyone is built for stealth a light in the darkness announces your presence more than a non stealthy person walking around does. But in 2014 I kind of preferred control flames over this, it doubled the light radius of fires. A bullseye lanterns doubled range is insane. Even a standard lantern gives you 60/60 bright/dim. And then it had some fun playing with fire extras on top of it. If water is a big concern in your game though light does shine.
@Ahglock Sorcerers also get a million cantrips. So, sacrificing one for a useful spell doesn't break me. Long as I have a few attack cantrips, mage hand, prestidigitation, and mind sliver, I'm golden. And as you said, light works underwater and can't be snuffed out except with a dispell. And I welcome any enemy mage to waste a 3rd level spell dispelling a cantrip that I can just recast. 😆
I would upgrade Thorn Whip and Shocking Grasp. Thorn Whip is just a great combo spell, either with your party, with existing terrain, or with hazards you create. I've even cast it on allies, where the small damage is worth being able to pull them out of a bad spot. Shocking grasp is my go-to "oh no, I'm in melee" spell. A disengage with damage is better than just a disengage, and this also gives the rest of your party freedom to move around the target. It's also a nice touch spell for a familiar to deliver.
Blade ward is actually an insanely good pick for a Monk with magic initiate (wizard). It doesn't hurt your first turn since you can cast it and then flurry of blows, and the 1-4 ac boost against all types of attack rolls is really solid all the way up to level 20 (it can stack to be an effective 25 - 28 ac depending on your wis and dex). I wouldn't suggest it for warrior of shadow monks though, since darkness is better.
First of all, thank you for tackling this list in an efficient manner and not wasting any time. I don't know if Chill Touch merits an F based on the d10 damage and the rider being useful when the baddies have healing. Sorcerous Burst _might_ edge into S - when it scales up, the odds of procing 8s grows. Or that just may be me loving to roll dice.
While the odds are low enough that it probably is not a top tier cantrip by the math, old man me remembers playing earthdawn in the 90s and one shotting the first horror we faced when my eldritch spear spell exploded on a d8+d6 into 67 damage. So, yes S tier.
He also completely glossed over the fact that not only does it bypass Resistances 99% of the time, it’s also a menace when Vulnerability shows up, and it simply outclasses Fire Bolt since Fire is a relatively common Resistance behind Cold, meaning that Sorcerers should probably take it by default now.
While word of radiance is limited like you say, its alot better than thunder clap because you can choose for it to only affect enemies. So you can melee cleric it up next to other martials and spam it and not hurt your friends.
I mostly agree with this list! I’d put firebolt in A and True Strike in S though. Only big disagreement is that I think thorn whip is A tier. Forced movement towards you on an attack roll is good and extremely rarely available. Don’t use it as a build around, use it to add an option. IMHO almost no cantrip should be a bread and butter combat spell. Just a way to add situational options. This is a great one and really fun in play!
@@InsightCheck thanks! I love your engagement, and appreciate the way you interact with disagreeing comments 😀. Really hoping the best for this channel! Honestly I think you have some of the best takes out there. Keep it up.
There was a calculation done by someone in reddit for the saving throws. so dexterity is basically the baseline, a dex save is good, Inteligence is the best, Constitution is the worst, Strength is not as good as levels go higher but it depends on your campaign, if all of your enemies are casters then the save is good, everything else you will be better targeting dex.
Dude imaginé Shield of faith as a cantrips with the potencial to more ac. Blade ward 1 action for 1-4 ac increase it's insane dude plus can be adquired by everyone with Magic initiate.
You can get cantrips from your background now. A gish character can now be built with something like Shillelagh AND use their desired spellcasting modifier for it. Also, Sorcerous Burst scales much better at higher levels. Once you reach level 5, the odds of getting an additional D8 is already 23%, very close to 1/4 odds. At level 11, the odds of this is 1/3. The average damage of the cantrip is still lower than Firebolt, but at level 11 and above it is extremely close to Firebolt in damage and you can pick the optimal damage type for the situation which means it can have a slight edge over Firebolt.
With repelling blast that would be very cinematic, EB level number of "punches" throws them back 10-40 feet and then you flash across the field to deliver a punch or 2.
Chill Touch deserves at least D, not F. Once you run into an enemy with high regeneration power or an effect like some epic monsters of healing up to full hp really makes you thank for this spell
But it's only circumstantially useful, and very rarely at that. There are cases where it's exceptional like you say, but they are VERY fer and far between.
If you have Dynamic Lighting in a VTT, so are *actually using* visibility rules... Light can be a *must have*. Most of the party had Darkvision, but the human bumbling in the dark needed Light up until they got goggles.
A bit surprising you didn't like light as much as dancing lights. Dancing lights only last 1 minute and require you to be within range of them to move them or keep them up. Light lasts 1 hour, has no range, can be put on any object under 10ft in size and provides better light than one of the dancing lights orbs. Using light you can fire an arrow across a cavern to see its makeup, use it as a distraction, or lay a longer lasting ambush than dancing lights. Not saying either is amazing, but as a low level party with a member without darkvision its way better than a torch and has utility as you level moreso than dancing lights. Just my opinion though😅
If you multi class sorcerer and tempest cleric you can channel divinity sorcerers burst doing 56 damage and twin it doing 112 and do it all again as a bonus action if you’re 3 sorcerer 3 cleric all in the same turn doing a total of 224 across two targets at level 6
Kobold is a good race choice for tempest clerics. So if we are going tempest cleric/sorcerer multiclass being able to start in armor, with healing and good damage cantrip/options is a good enough compromise to start in cleric getting sorcerers burst from kobold, since we can always take resilient constitution later.
Interesting thought. Class specific lists could allow for some more nuance in the ranking whereas these needed to be a lot more general. I'll keep that in mind!
I think that Shillelagh is a build defining spell and now with origin feats that allow any build to snag it with the guide background you can make any gish build happen. A charisma based paladin that smites evil with a big club? Heck ya. A Quarterstaff wisdom based ranger fey wandering? Duuude...
I found this video after your more recent release of some of the monsters for 2024. Because there is a focus on a minor amount of elemental damage on each attack, even at low cr, Resistance seems like a genuinely applicable cantrip at low levels. I would consider picking it up at level 1/2, especially for subsequent fights of similar enemies. Cerics can train out of it by level 3 and you get the most bang for your buck early.
I think that Blade Ward could have some usefulness on either melee martials or characters with cantrip extra attack. If a fighter picks it via magic initiate, it could be a decent bump to durability. The action cast is still painful, but the concentration isn't competing with anything and they have solid con saves. Extra attack cantrip users can cast it easier than anyone else. There is a decent chance they will have something else they want to be concentrating on, but it is reasonable option if they don't.
Blade ward is great for a first level wizard who usually doesn't have any spell slot left to be concentrating on anyway. It effectively increases your AC by 1d4.
I agree with most of you tier rankings, my single hold out would be thorn whip. Forced movement in an enemy is awesome and the fact that it is a ranged melee attack (i know sounds contradictory) means that in the event someone does get in melee with my spell caster that I can use thorn whip without disadvantage due to it being a melee attack. Also it can be paired with Absorb elements. I don't know that I would put it into "S tier", but I think the forced movement alone should elevate it out of f tier! Love your videos by the way thanks so much
@@SashQuack but it's NOT a free Disengage, it only works if you hit, so if you need to get away from an enemy you're always better off disengaging or even dodging if there is more than one around you.
Yeah, I really don't understand why they removed the 'You have advantage on the attack roll if the target is wearing armor made of metal' on Shocking Grasp. Like, it didn't come up to often but it was a flavourful little buff when it did happen and the cantrip is not that strong either way.
The light cantrip is essential for my human wizard. It gets cast every time the party enters a dark area and allows him to cast all his spells that require sight. It’s A tier.
Definitely S tier. It gets used constantly every time someone takes it. Sometimes it makes a difference, sometimes it doesn't, but there's generally zero opportunity cost for casting it so it's a straight upgrade to everyone's skill checks.
@Oniphire there is a bit of a cost now. It costs concentration again unlike the playtest so if you have a long duration concentration spell cast and want to keep it up going into another combat you can't cast Guidance. Or if you want to cast guidance mid combat which comes up in my games. But it's still great
@@grantgarbour I said there was GENERALLY no cost because, like InsightCheck, I didn't want to bother with the caveats. They exist but I assume anyone who reads that it requires concentration will understand them.
Understand these are evaluated in a vacuum but some can shine with certain subclasses. Chill Touch touch with Affoning Blast isn’t too bad for a warlock melee option. Acid Splash is great for Alchemists that can add their Intelligence to damage
So a few things to note about Light that I think you missed is it's mobility. You can cast Dancing Lights and move it with a Bonus Action, but Light could be cast on the human Paladin's shield and just move with them for free. It's a subtle thing, but it can make a big difference.
Bladeward's use is niche, If you are going to use it it's probably going to be as part of your attack action as a Blade Singer Wizard, Eldritch Knight, or Valor Bard. This would be when you want to deal some damage to still be a threat, but your primary goal is to be a distraction, at least in the moment. I think C tier is appropriate.
I feel like Shillelagh's main selling point is using it with a ranger with the druidic warrior fighting style. Letting a ranger focus on wisdom as their main stat is so good for both their spellcasting ability, as well as improving some of the most iconic skills for rangers, such as survival and perception. Also another point to mention is if a melee character takes it with magic initiate, it offers a great damage option for sword and board or duelling characters, but with a staff or club instead. I'd have it as A-tier personally.
Thank you for the list. I suppose I can quibble about some things. I'm old enough to remember when Light was a must have spell and could be cast on the eyes of your enemy to blind them for a bit. It gets more and more difficult to compile rankings like this as you can't just think in terms of the traditional full/half/third casters any longer. So many options are available to so many different types of characters, and there are so many ways to pick up spells, especially cantrips. I know we shouldn't consider niche cases, but it is so easy to pick up cantrips outside being a full/half/third caster with the spell on your list, that it can't be considered that niche any longer. Dipping, feats like Magic Initiate, and sub-class granted spells are very prevalent in the game these days; and it seems the new rules almost encourage it.
People keep forgetting that you can put the light spell on shackles or some important MacGuffin so that you can never lose track of it. Or cast it on a rock and throw it. Or cast it on a twigg and have a flying familiar carry it around.
I think Light deserves to be higher because with a creative mind you can really pull some extraordinary use out of it. One of my favorite uses of Light was using the color-changing effect to create a black light which helped us find the villain’s fingerprints. Another is casting Light on a Drow's armor to exploit her sensitivity to bright light.
Thorn Whip does not have a commonly resisted damage type though. It deals magical-piercing damage. Not "piercing from non-magical attacks" or poison damage. It's only really resisted by Plants and Swarms, two extremely rare creature types.
The magical/non magical distinction has almost certainly been removed from the game. Every feature or spell in the PHB that mentioned the distinction has been rephrased to just say “BPS” and this was the case throughout the UA too. Though we won’t have full confirmation until we see the Monster Manual, I am nearly 100% confident that the distinction is gone from the game.
While the distinction is gone, a lot of creatures that were previously resistant to nonmagical Piercing are looking like they aren't resistant to anything at all. Piercing is probably gonna be more resisted than some elemental stuff, but I'm honestly not sure how much.
Word of Radiance does let you choose which targets it effects, unlike Thunderclap, which allows you to use it in more situations without worrying about hurting allies. So I would probably bump it up a tier.
I think pointing out how useful creative spells in the most common ways they can be used is important to these tier videos. Rope could be clutch but if you don't know how to tie a knot it might not serve you. If you don't know, you don't know. Word of Radiance is a blast spell centered on you, so it's great. Probably A tier if you plan on wading into the enemies.
Shocking grasp is a b+ for me. As a mage, I like close options incase something gets too close, and the disengage effect means I can move to a safe area even when damaging the opponent. I especially made use of it with an infiltrator armorer artificer, where I was super mobile and able to avoid opportunity attacks Edit: and for thorn whip, I ~sometimes~ include it in melee builds. I used it as part of a warforged guardian armorer artificer where I was effectively a police bot
I feel like the cantrips you can pick up via the magic initiate origin feat like shillelagh really warrant so re evaluation. Like yes it's limited to the druid list but via the origin feat ls your fighter can pick it up now leading to some interesting build opportunities that require minimal investment.
I feel blade ward is something like in a video game where a boss uses a large telegraphed move. Implementing ideas like this would add value to the spell maybe
If monster resistances stay the same then ray of frost is better than firebolt. 4.5 damage vs 5.5 damage is very little especially when there are more fire immune/resistant creatures than cold. And the speed reduction is great. If your DM likes big maps (and they cannot lie), then I can't deny firebolt has an edge but otherwise I'm going ray of frost.
In 2014, Cold damage was actually slightly more resisted and immune than Fire shockingly. Not by much but it was. I am curious how the balance will shift once we see the new MM!
I agree with Thunder Clap being F, I used it on my Artificer tank to Misty Step in and Clap hitting a group and getting everyone's attention, but that very specific build and scenario where it highlights it's optimal use is exactly why it isn't good. In 2024 I would rather (free) Misty Step and Thunder Wave which would be a lot better.
For Chill touch I wanna point out Eldritch Knight or Valor bard. I'd put it in C because there are subclasses it would be pretty good on. While not the optimal choice for those, it's still viable and good if you want to make sure they can't heal off your damage. Definitely one of those "being good on some things saves it from F"
I would argue Sorcerous burst for S tier. The reason being it gets extra damage dice like every other cantrip, which means more chances for it to pop off with rolling 8's. And it can do all the utility stuff firebolt can do and more due to the damage type being one you can pick.
True strike is much better than firebolt. Firebolt at level 1 does 1-10 damage, true strike with a light crossbow does 4-11. At level 5 firebolt does 2-20, true strike does 6-18. At the next scale you probably aren’t really using cantrips anymore.
One of the Homerules I had before 24 rules is increasing the Cantrip for Eldritch Knight from 2 to 3 at 3rd level to 4 at 10th. Chill touch is good now for 7th + level EKs war magic melee Fire Bolt is the go-to Ranged spell
blade ward: shines when you can replace an attack with a cantrip or can quicken a spell. it's easily as good as shield of faith but requires no spell slot chill touch: gives you an option for your familiar to deliver other than shocking grasp. mage hand: SUCKS people like to go on about its versatility, but honestly, it can't do much. you can have it hold a torch, but it only lasts a minute and you have to wave your arms and say magic words over and over and manually contorl it each round just for it to move at all. unseen servant can be done as a ritual, lasts an hour, can carry 3 tines as much, is actually invisible, has twice the range and doesn't need constant instruction. the only time mage hand is useful is when it's modified by other features or the extreme scenario where a button is on a ceiling, you dont have rope, no one can fly, and no one has a familiar. have a familiar and unseen servant and you never need mage hand. don't waste a cantrip slot on this trash. produce flame: is great if you're limited in how many cantrips you have. it combines light and firebolt, plus it is unique in that when you throw the fire, it isn't casting a spell so I cannot be countered and doesn't require components. shillelagh: bast choice for magic initiate as it let's you choose the ability score it works with.
I don't know i am not sure produce flame fits on B on a chart where fire bolt is S tier. It does less damage sure but the difference between d10 and d8 is pretty small. It has a shorter range and for some reason can't start fires, but it is also the light spell built into it. Worse than fire bolt sure, but not 2 tiers worse.
It doesn’t make any sense that Shillielagh doesn’t work with great clubs. Now that the damage scales clubs are now strictly better than great clubs in all situations. Why even keep the weapon around at that point?
The fact they took out the reference to "wood" was important to me, as now DM cannot rule it doesn't work on unique staffs made from glass or metal. But it makes me wonder why not have it work on bows, xbows, or maybe all simple weapons, or any weapon. Doesn't even work on Druid specific gear like Moon Sickle.
In my opinion poison spray should have been either a 10ft cube with a 5ft range or a 15 ft cube with a 10ft range. It always for me felt like a grunt cleanup spell/ get off me tool for hordes encroaching on you. If they wanted to make it single target and a attack it should deal some base damage on miss (not sure if this would be something to have stack with potent cantrip or if it should simply have that effect by default) then it can still be a good clean up spell even if it has a bad damage type and slightly lower reach then the likes of say, fireball.
18:35 Important point. It doesn’t “allow you” to use your spell casting ability. It forces you to. Still a good Cantrip but this limitation is kind of annoying.
While Shillelagh does not. It allows. Making any shield using build stronger, if they just use a staff or stick, without needing to focus on caster attribute. In fact, True Strike, Shillelagh, and Blade Ward can all stack, making almost anyone with at least some part of that from Magic Initiate a viable gish with no resource cost other than 1 round setup time.
You are really underestimating Blade Ward, it's super good for Eldritch Knights, who are usually always in the thick of things, have high AC to begin with, have good concentration saves, don't have many spell slots or other concentration spells likely, and can cast it with their war magic feature without spending their whole action.
I think you may have missed the description of the tiers and my pinned comment. Something in C tier can absolutely shine and be god tier on the right character. By the same token, something only particularly useful with one class or subclass, is hardly generally good.
Yay, I'm back. I'll post my own tier list and see how much overlap there is! I'll be mentioning "circumstances" a lot, and those also include things like specific builds (e.g. Shillelagh ranger or wizards not preparing rituals), being a ritual, only being good at certain levels, or the component being too costly for the spell's effect/level (e.g. Chromatic Orb, Identify). S (extremely useful in many/most circumstances): - Mage Hand A (very useful in many circumstances OR irreplaceable in its niche) - Eldritch Blast, Guidance, Message, Mind Sliver, Minor Illusion (cooperative DM), Shillelagh, True Strike B (somewhat useful in many circumstances AND great in its niche) - Fire Bolt, Prestidigitation (cooperative DM), Ray of Frost, Sorcerous Burst, Spare the Dying, Starry Wisp, Toll the Dead C (somewhat useful in many circumstances OR great in its niche) - Blade Ward, Chill Touch (ew), Friends, Produce Flame (unless it can be hurled while Wildshaped), Sacred Flame, Thorn Whip, Vicious Mockery, Word of Radiance D (circumstantial) - Acid Splash, Dancing Lights, Elementalism (cooperative DM), Light, Poison Spray, Shocking Grasp, Thaumaturgy, Thunderclap F (very circumstantial AND bad in its own niche) - Druidcraft, Mending, Resistance
Hi, I'm Jason. Now you know someone who doesn't love Mage Hand. Much like Prestidigitation, it's a useful spell that adds flavor to certain situations, but it doesn't *do* much of anything. Some of the things people like to claim using it for are either very niche to the point of not being useful, the application is actually outside the bounds of what the spell description says it can do, or the thing they do could just as easily have been done with their own, real hand without consequence. "I opened the chest with my magic! Huzzah!" Unless there actually was a trap, so what? If you did defeat a trap with it, did you steal the Rogue's thunder with your silly cantrip? But what if it was the rogue who cast it? Ok, now you're doing a cool thing - in that one, niche circumstance. Do it often, and it now becomes boring. It's a cantrip, so its uses are rightfully going to be limited, but most of what it can actually do genuinely doesn't matter. To rank Prestidigitation at A but Druidcraft at C, I'm confused. Prest can clean your clothes when you fall in the water, and it can light your campfire for you or spice up your trail rations, and while those are "interesting" in the moment they hold little real value in most games because being wet has no drawback, bland food is a fact of life that's far more interestingly solved with a cooking/chef feat, and tinderboxes exist. Meanwhile, Druidcraft can literally predict the day's weather, which is genuinely useful in any scenario involving travel and adds depth to the world. Prest can make a small figuring that can be crushed by a strong wind, while Druidcraft can make a flower blossom and then given as a gift to an NPC going through a difficult time for a lasting, emotional connection. Similarly, Thaumaturgy lets you command doors/windows to open a close (without a weight limit) - things you liked about Mage Hand, but you just glossed over it here. Thornwhip shines, as do some of the others, in a multiclass build. Your pinned comment said you're not looking at specific use-cases, so I'll leave out the busted ways you can dominate a battlefield with this one. However, Shillelagh and True Strike are both spells that still suck on a typical single-classed caster, yet you've ranked them with clear implications that a martial character would actually be using them. Light can be cast on a stone or coin and dropped into a well/pit to show you if you have a chance of traversing it or not. Cast it on a stone and use a sling to send it up into the air, and you've made yourself a warning/signaling flare. You can cast it on a martial's shield or sword and have light for an entire hour without concentration For the combat spells, I agree with you on probably 80%, but for the utility spells, I think we've missed the mark, especially for non-arcane. You've also downranked some things for being tied to a single class, but the new backgrounds open cantrips from Cleric, Druid, and Wizard to any character for free, making them far more useful/usable than your list here indicates.
Starry Wisp as a Stars Druid is S tier, especially lvl 7 oneard. Contribute to dps even in Dragon/Chalice form, frees up BA for chalice-boosted healing word, and in Archer form, you can radient combo while a concentration spell is causing more chaos.
chill touch is not F tier. melee cantrips might be more dangerous but lets not pretend casters are never in melee. It’s also a D10 scaling cantrip that bypasses common resistances. Its components are Vocal and Somatic, you always have access to it even if you’ve had your equipment taken. Chill touch can now target objects. Might be nice to have a cantrip to break things that doesn’t start fires. Regarding the healing prevention, while its even more niche than creature healing, objects cant be healed either. The spell chapter goes further into targeting specification saying a target can be a creature, object, or something else. Since chill touch says “target” it can target anything that isn’t somehow a creature or object, what ever that “something else” might be.
The fact you said firebolt was S tier while making Ray Of Frost A tier is, quite frankly, offensive. A D10 of the second most resisted damage type is nowhere near good enough to be a “must have”
I mean, for what it’s worth, in 2014, cold is more resisted than Fire. They’re close, but cold takes it. Fire Bolt can also target objects which helps. There’s definitely an argument for it in S though :)
Okay, riding to the defense of thorn whip. My druid uses it all the time. They constantly use it to pull baddies away from casters, pulling baddie casters next to your melee PCs, or to pull them into static effects (at low levels I have always paired it with stuff like moonbeam). If you've already got your concentration spell up, especially since druids dish shit damage through cantrip selection, yanking enemies around the battlefield is frequently the best thing you can do with your action. I will say that it gets less useful at higher levels, but even once I had access to 7th level spells I still found opportunities to use it.
You can get very wild with it. Let's say you're a 5th level party. Your PAM fighter is facing off against several baddies and you've cast a 3rd level moonbeam right next to him. They've approached a caster, but mooks got in the way. On the casters turn, they're gonna cast a spell and leave. You can thorn whip the caster, pull them into the moonbeam, and they will take a PAM reaction. Let's say it's a glaive. That's 2d6+4d10+4 damage, and now the caster has to disengage if they want to run away. You just need a bit of creativity, and you can always find a good option for Thorn Whip.
Thorn Whip's forced movement definitely makes it better than F, though probably no higher than B and I wouldn't argue too hard about a C, and as many others have noted Shillelagh is an amazing build-around spell for anyone who gets Extra Attack at any point...definitely enough to make it A Tier if not S. But the confusing one to me is True Strike being rated below Firebolt. That just...doesn't make sense. True Strike with a Light Crossbow (the easy version of the spell that everyone can manage) is flatly better than Firebolt in terms of damage at levels 1-10 (a lot better at 1-4), and equal at 11-16. It falls very slightly behind at 17th, but that's real late for the advantage to matter much. It doesn't set things on fire, but Radiant is likely a better damage type than Fire in most cases, so that's a wash or maybe an advantage to True Strike. And that's leaving aside Weapon Masteries and Classes like Valor Bard who can do other stuff with it. Like, if Firebolt is only A Tier then I wouldn't argue about True Strike being there as well, the two are honestly pretty comparable from level 5 on, and both are less impressive than Eldritch Blast, but it being rated below a spell it is flatly better than for the first 10 levels of play is really weird.
Hey, do the math on True Strike. Just normally for, say, some Wizard, not even getting into what it can do for a Rogue. At 1st level, our wizard has a Light Crossbow and an Int of 16. They can cast Fire Bolt for +5 Attack and 1d10 (average 5.5) damage... or True Strike for +5 Attack and 1d8+3 (average 7.5!) damage. So they hit their next Tier at Lv 5, and can cast Fire Bolt for +7 Attack and 2d10 (average 11) damage... or True Strike for +7 Attack and 1d8+1d6+4 (average 12) damage. At Lv 11, it's 3d10 (average 16.5) vs 1d8+2d6+5 (average 16.5) damage. Yeah, you'll retire it at Lv 17, but how many games go that long?
"I rarely see Light cast ingame... I wanna put it in F-tier, but I won't..." 🤣Maybe people should remember the rules for vision better. I know most races have darkvision, which is pretty ridiculous to begin with, but even if you have darkvision, you can see in total darkness only like you had dim light, which gives you disadvantge on perception checks. I assume this is probably ignored by many tables pretty much. Most of my characters in the past didn't even have darkvision (human/hafling), it was pretty much a no-brainer pick for me and I used it all the time, because I then could just use an Action to cast light on my weapon or arcane focus, instead of having to deal with some other light source like a lantern or torch. I guess we can agree to disagree on your ranking of the Light spell. 😉Anyways, keep up the great work with your videos!
Appreciate the kind words at the end but I should mention that there are plenty of reasons someone wouldn’t cast or pick light that are not related to not remembering the rules for vision like if they aren’t going somewhere dark lol. But also, there are other solutions like Dancing Lights or just using a torch :P
Thorn whip in the hands of a high level druid is pretty funny though. You can whip pull people off of the top of castle walls/towers/cliffs at what 400+ foot range?
If a spell lasts 1 minute and casts in 6 seconds, you can realistically enter the lair with it precast. You can cast it as many times as you need to provide coverage. So in many scenarios the action/bonus action it takes to cast is not always needed. If there's something in RAW that says you can't do this, let me know. EDIT: Yes I know you cannot sneak and do this with V spells. You can't be doing very much of anything at all but you can look and move.
Thorn Whip in F??? Clearly someone hasn't pulled a baddy into a moonbeam before. Such a fun spell and the fact that it's a 30 foot melee attack means you don't have disadvantage at close range. It also works with things like a swarmkeepers gathered swarm ability for more damage/movement.
I think Chill Touch got nerfed with it becoming a touch spell, but I wouldn't put it in F tier. The fact that it shuts off troll's and any other creature with regeneration would rank it at least a C tier. It was my go to cantrip for any caster class (even warlocks), but making it a touch has crippled the cantrip a great deal. Elemetalism is very useful especially combined with shape water.
I know this is subject to change with the new rules, but outside of PC's heavily prioritizing dex over strength, after CR 7 dexterity saves fall to the bottom 3 pretty consistently. That being said under cr 2 its one of/is the best, falling behind through cr 7, and most cantrip use will be against those lower cr creatures, but overall, dex is not a bad save to target
Guidance is easily S tier, if its not then i dont know how any utility cantrip can be. Its used at my tables like 3-6 times a session, provides tangible benefits all the time and makes everyone in the party early on as good as anyone who is a specialist in a skill at that skill. I dont think ive seen a dnd table without someone who had access to guidance for like 10+ years
Very surprised At Friends' F tier ranking. "The charmer has Advantage on any ability check to interact with you socially." Surely, having Advantage fot 1 minute on Persuasion, Deception, or Intimidation checks against someone is very useful in the right circumstance. Certainly is in Baldur's Gate 3 😛 I personally like that cantrip. Very useful in social scenarios.
Foreign whip I think you're judging a little harshly as it is a great way to get extended use out of a lot of their AOE control spells such as Spike growth. I also think that you are missing one of the biggest benefits of word of radiance in that unlike most other of these burst spells you get to choose your targets in my mind that makes it a lot better than thunderclap.
By that point you have 2 eldritch blasts which will do more damage, unless you built for it with a fighter dip or have a sweet magic weapon. EB is probably better, though still not that good.
@@Ahglock I think you should consider that both attacks are made with disadvantage. We are comparing a melee cantrip with a ranged one. I think that one issue with EB is you have to hex to make the most of it, spending your concentration to max it out when you would probably prefer another, stronger spell for that.
The way you were talking about vicious mockery makes it sound like you have to see and hear the creature, But it's see OR hear them. So you can cast it on a creature in silence. You can also cast on a creature in darkness. But not both.
Vicious Mockery is the same range, damage and damage type (psychic) as Mind Sliver. Yes INT save is nicer but the attack debuff is much more generally useful than the saving throw debuff which is quite niche. I’d say they’re both A or switch their ratings.
My favorit starting Cantrip-set is firebolt for range attack, dancing light for light spell (because human, i like the option to cast the light away from me, even, when its weaker as the light spell). And shoking grap, for the case a enemie came close to me. I dislike the chill touch change. Its fits now the name, but i liked the image, of summon a skelleton hand, that i shot at the target (or, that is summoned near him and the target need to dodge it).
Light is so much better than dancing lights. No concentration, bigger radius of light, longer duration. More utility because you put it on an object that doesn't stop being lit up no matter the distance (put it on a copper coin and drop it into a pit that you can't see the bottom of). You can put it on your human fighter's weapon or shield or something and they are seeing normally now with barely any problem. With light you set it and forget it with barely any problems. Dancing lights could force you to lose concentration in a critical moment blinding the party and forcing you to use your action again (not to mention eating concentration for better things).
Chill touch definitely got nerfed but as someone who just fought a hag who had it, dont sleep on the no healing part. I got knocked unconscious from chill touch, the healer couldnt heal me and things were looking bad. I then rolled a nat 20 on a death save for the first time ever, only to not get up because I can't regain that one hit point yet. We pulled through, but man it was butt clenching!
Acid Splash I feel is a great Cantrip. the 5' radius is the same spell effect area is a 3 by 3 grid what other cantrip can hit upto 9 creature marching in formation. the Square it is cast in and all adjacent squares. The same AOE as thunder wave and better then burning hand and you can cast it within 30' of you amazing. I will so use this for a Kobold that will flavor it as his Breath Weapon
CLARIFICATION:
I should have been more clear (so my bad) but the goal here was to really rate the general applicability and use cases of a given cantrip. Pretty much every spell or thing in the game is going to have a "if you do X,. Y and Z thing, then it's busted as hell!" kind of thing. As a result, it's incredibly difficult to give any sort of rating based on that. Something I rated C or F might be GIGA S+++++ in the right build, but it's next to impossible to control for that.
This isn't me saying that I got everything spot on, I'm sure there's room for improvement, but I just wanted to give some additional context.
Also, Shillalegh should probably be higher.
I personally don’t think the clarification is needed. Your description of F Tier says “They rarely offer enough benefit to justify picking over stronger options unless for niche or flavor reasons.”
Imo that definition leaves the door open for wiggle room for things like Chill Touch to have a scenario where it’s good and useful. Reducing healing, or being used with a familiar are both such cases imo.
@zarekodynski9077 thanks! I tried to emphasize the importance of the definitions of the tiers at the beginning, seems like some may have skipped haha.
There’s ALWAYS going to be wiggle room and I used those definitions to kind of build that into the list.
@@InsightCheck I see this as a good thing, after all if you have people defending every possible cantrip it means that the game has interesting options and build diversity, (besides the increased engagement for the video), thanks for the video and keep up the good work
@JorgePlasencia-ou4xq honestly you raise a good point. And I think the fact that the largest sections of my list are ranges in the middle, I think that shows they’ve generally done a good job at creating few extreme outliers!
13:00 Resistance does suck, but it sounds like you are confusing once per turn with once per round .
Blade ward is excellent for Fighters. In particular, giving up one attack as an Eldritch knight for a concentration ac bonus for the rest of combat is solid. Also, a fighter that has a magic initiate is ok casting it on a turn where they might not be in range as they approach. Being a high ac class with no competing concentration choices and an innate con save works great with this cantrip.
I would rather take the dodge action.
@@ErickRedcloudcould do both. Dodge + Blade Ward is crippling if you can get both. It’s a decent setup if you want to keep your party safe as a solo front-liner and you chose eldritch knight or arcane trickster. Bonuses like these get better the more of them you have, that’s why well rounded parties do better in most situations.
Not just eldritch knights. Other fighters probably have 0 things to concentrate on and should use it every fight.
My first complant with the cantrips is that Prestidigitation Druid Craft Elementism and thaumaturgy even exisit they should be features of there class because this is how all spell casters start to master magic. That is like saying you forget to how to crawl because you run marathons.
This is a great point. I’m going to just house rule this going forward.
@@burtonbarnett6293 I let full caster do anything that does no damage or what another cantrip does. Illusion or shape element no biger then 1 foot cube, make a non word sound, move an abject no more then one pound, or any other effect of the 4 spells .
Agreed. Also these add to the role playing element of the game as opposed to combat. A lot of people miss out for this reason.
I think Thornwhip should've been in C. A cantrip giving you battlefield control is very powerful and builds can be made around it. For example, that 1d6 cantrip becomes a cantrip that causes 1d6+4d4 if you cast Spike Growth first.
13.5 average damage and some movement for the cost of a spell slot, and two actions is totally fine.
Once cast of guiding bolt at level one does 14 damage and grants advantage to the next hit.
Thornwhip is fine.
Thornwhip is good on flying characters too. You get an additional 1d6 falling damage and prone condition.
@@MastikatorDisregard, absolutely thought you meant flying enemies, not PCs.
Oh, uh, you mispelled "Thornwhip should've been in A." Fixed it for ya! :P
Thorn Whip has been clutch in SOO many encounters in my games... Pulling bad guys 10 feet away from their goal is sometimes priceless. Totally agree.
Think you are sleeping on Thorn Whip .
There are sooo many devastating area of effect spells that you can pull an enemy into with that effect.
That damage is fine. The pull is where it’s at.
It’s also worth noting it is the only Melee cantrip that has reach. Which also gives it good versatility and a cool niche.
A fair point but still very niche. It only pulls the creature 10 feet closer so that AOE will need to be in a very specific area on the battlefield. It can absolutely work, but is still pretty limited.
For context though, I love the idea of the spell and have tried to make it work a bunch of times.
@@InsightCheckAlso, yes it does piercing damage, but it's piercing damage which isn't resisted as much as mundane, at least with the current versions of monsters.
@MethosJK9 this is very true but does seem to have gone away in 2024. Everywhere we once saw that distinction now just refers to it as BPS without any qualifier. We will need to wait for the Monster Manual for full confirmation but it seems like it is gone.
It’s not just AOE spells either. Forced movement towards the caster is a really potent option in a lot of situations. It doesn’t require there to be a place for them to stand. I think this one is amazing.
@InsightCheck so Battlemaster is a bad subclass for fighters? 10 out of 30 feet is still plenty of room to not get caught up in battle and move around freely. The AOE is under the assumption that the caster would even, which there are more than situational times where you'd want to not use an AOE spell. Literally every single battle can benefit from forced movement, regardless of damage. I don't see how a cantrip that can be useful in every battle is only situational.
True strike is S tier for me. Use it on a light crossbow and at level 1 you have 1d8+3 radiant damage on an attack roll, which is 3 more than the clerics are doing with sacred flame, and with an 80ft range.
I’m playing Curse of Strahd soon and this should be my signature spell in early levels.
This tier list only counts for full casters. Spells like Blade Ward are huge for more limited casters (initiates). You will be able to precast it multiple times per day in my opinion - adventurers are ambushed but more often they drive the action forward and venture to places where combats can occur.
Love it on an Eldritch knight
I concur, especially with you other comment on Shillelagh, this list is really focused on full backline spell casters and not really gish or other type of build possibilities
Blade Ward doesn't need a dip or feat, you can cast it as a Bonus Action on Earth Genasi.
@@floofzykitty5072 Also, if you are a High Elf, you can pick it at Lvl 1. Later on, swap it out for something else when you have other stuff to concentrate on.
Thorn Whip: I have seen this cantrip change the course of campaigns. On-demand forced movement is wildly good, especially at lower levels. It defeats grapples. It sends enemies plummeting down cliff faces and off bridges. It's a melee spell attack with a 30 ft. range(!), so you aren't forced to roll with Disadvantage when casting in melee. Anybody can access it now via origin feat Magic Initiate: Druid. It is the most tactical cantrip in the game. But I actually appreciate you rage-baiting us Thorn Whip lovers for clicks and you have succeeded, my hat's off to you!!! :)
Chill Touch was my FAVORITE cantrip, and now it's horrible. I hate it here. I blame everyone who fails at reading comprehension 😢
And don't even get me started on my boy Inflict Wounds!!!!!
@@CooperAATEor how they made Shocking Grasp soooo much worse.
Inflict Wounds used to at least have a good niche use when an enemy gets up in your face or if an enemy is paralyzed you could run up and upcast a mega auto-crit on them but now it's weaker and not an attack roll😔
@@MethosJK9 seeing how boss monsters are apparently getting multiple reactions instead of legendary actions, I can see why they had to change Grasp
@@MethosJK9Shocking Grasp needed the nerf due to design decisions with new creature stat blocks but getting rid of the advantage against metal armor wearing enemies was just kicking the dog while it's down
Shillelagh being in B is crazy to me. Any character can grab it and whole builds are built around it (see Treatmonk's recent struggles with the sword and board fighter). It also is the only way a Blade Warlock can dual wield SAD. It completely changes your character.
Sure, I can see a reasonable argument for moving it up a tier.
It’s also worth noting though that nearly every spell is going to have some incredible combo that works with one specific class or subclass. It’s impossible to rate things based on that. This is more of a generally applicable list.
@@InsightCheck I get it but this is the only spell on this list that allow you to change the way you build your character and dump more stats and still get extra attack. I don't think that's an edge case, I think it's an emerging meta for many classes and caster subclasses.
You can do polearm master to “dual wield” and just reframe it to say you’re dual wielding
@@sandstorm7476 That's true. Always up for a reskin.
@@apjapkispeaking of, there’s no reason shillelagh should only be restricted to a club/staff flavor wise. It does matter for weapon mastery, but otherwise… bear with me here.
What is a sword without a blade? A hilt. What weapon type is a hilt? Well, closest thing is probably a club. Casting Shillelagh on it gives you the equivalent of a force rapier/one handed longsword… a force sword? A LIGHTSABER?
That’s right, new shillelagh gives you a lightsaber and I’m totally allowing my players to skin it as a light saber. One of them is also using it to be like Riven from league of legends - broken sword is a club but shillelagh temporarily reforges the blade with runic magic
I think True Strike is absolutely S tier, the ability to combine effects that improve weapons with effects that improve cantrips is so powerful from a build perspective. Any class with weapon mastery and/or fighting styles that can get true strike can combine them for great effects; True Strike using a Vex weapon (shortbow, rapier, or hand crossbow) is comparable to Guiding Bolt; the only mastery that doesn’t synergize with true strike is Nick (probably).
@@pederw4900 agree
True strike as per RAW doesn’t allow you to benefit from weapon masteries. True strike is a magic action, not the attack action. Weapons masteries per RAW only work on the attack action. So if you want to use all that you said in your comment, you have to homebrew it
@@c_l_a_d_d_i_x Quote the section of the book that says weapon masteries can only use the attack action.
@c_l_a_d_d_i_x this is definitely not accurate. Weapon Masteries do not require the attack action. You can use them on Opportunity Attacks or with True Strike. There is nothing that states the attack action is required. The only specification is often that an attack roll is required.
@@InsightCheck if that is how you want to interpret it. the PHB states it requires you to make a melee attack roll (for the melee weapons). While true strike lets you change the stat modifier for which you make an attack or damage roll, you are still making a spell attack roll even if the SPELL itself allows you to hit with you melee weapon, you are making the roll as a result of you casting a spell.
Why does everyone treat darkvision like it let's you see perfectly in darkness. You still have disadvantage on any perception checks, since it counts as dim light
Correct
I’m not sure where I suggested it was the same or equivalent but it does diminish the need for light sources as some vision is often better than no vision. Darkvision with disadvantage on perception checks can be better than any light source if your goal is to stay hidden. It’s all just a question of perspective. Better in some, worse in others.
@InsightCheck I play humans. We don't get dark vision. So 3 out of my 4 characters took the light cantrip. Because if your DM is doing it RAI, traps and other hidden objects/creatures should be harder to detect in Dim light. Only 1 of my characters doesn't have light and it's my Shadow Sorcerer for obvious reasons.
So if you play a lot of nonhuman characters I can see why you think the spell is useless. Sure you could take Darkvision the spell but....why? It's a whole spell known.
"Hmm...Disintigrate vs Darkvision. Which should I take...?"
As for stealth, not all characters are stealthy. In parties I run my characters in, I always suggest a point person, someone who is stealthy and has good Perception to scout ahead 60 feet or so from the light bearing, heavy armor wearing group trailing behind. Familiars are also good scouts if your party has one. And like the OP said, even those with Darkvision would do well to use light sources to better help them find clues/treasures/dangers. It's a cantrip and costs nothing to turn on and off.
@@007ohboy I play humans almost exclusively, so I agree with a lot of what you are saying. i will say though I find it a hard sell as a mundane item does it almost as well and while not everyone is built for stealth a light in the darkness announces your presence more than a non stealthy person walking around does. But in 2014 I kind of preferred control flames over this, it doubled the light radius of fires. A bullseye lanterns doubled range is insane. Even a standard lantern gives you 60/60 bright/dim. And then it had some fun playing with fire extras on top of it. If water is a big concern in your game though light does shine.
@Ahglock Sorcerers also get a million cantrips. So, sacrificing one for a useful spell doesn't break me. Long as I have a few attack cantrips, mage hand, prestidigitation, and mind sliver, I'm golden. And as you said, light works underwater and can't be snuffed out except with a dispell. And I welcome any enemy mage to waste a 3rd level spell dispelling a cantrip that I can just recast. 😆
I would upgrade Thorn Whip and Shocking Grasp. Thorn Whip is just a great combo spell, either with your party, with existing terrain, or with hazards you create. I've even cast it on allies, where the small damage is worth being able to pull them out of a bad spot.
Shocking grasp is my go-to "oh no, I'm in melee" spell. A disengage with damage is better than just a disengage, and this also gives the rest of your party freedom to move around the target. It's also a nice touch spell for a familiar to deliver.
Blade ward is actually an insanely good pick for a Monk with magic initiate (wizard). It doesn't hurt your first turn since you can cast it and then flurry of blows, and the 1-4 ac boost against all types of attack rolls is really solid all the way up to level 20 (it can stack to be an effective 25 - 28 ac depending on your wis and dex). I wouldn't suggest it for warrior of shadow monks though, since darkness is better.
And, also, Eldritch Knights and Valor bards can cast this as a cantrip for one of their attacks.
First of all, thank you for tackling this list in an efficient manner and not wasting any time.
I don't know if Chill Touch merits an F based on the d10 damage and the rider being useful when the baddies have healing.
Sorcerous Burst _might_ edge into S - when it scales up, the odds of procing 8s grows. Or that just may be me loving to roll dice.
100% Sorcerous Burst S Tier
While the odds are low enough that it probably is not a top tier cantrip by the math, old man me remembers playing earthdawn in the 90s and one shotting the first horror we faced when my eldritch spear spell exploded on a d8+d6 into 67 damage. So, yes S tier.
He also completely glossed over the fact that not only does it bypass Resistances 99% of the time, it’s also a menace when Vulnerability shows up, and it simply outclasses Fire Bolt since Fire is a relatively common Resistance behind Cold, meaning that Sorcerers should probably take it by default now.
Being a touch spell just kills any use that spell has
While word of radiance is limited like you say, its alot better than thunder clap because you can choose for it to only affect enemies. So you can melee cleric it up next to other martials and spam it and not hurt your friends.
I mostly agree with this list! I’d put firebolt in A and True Strike in S though. Only big disagreement is that I think thorn whip is A tier. Forced movement towards you on an attack roll is good and extremely rarely available. Don’t use it as a build around, use it to add an option. IMHO almost no cantrip should be a bread and butter combat spell. Just a way to add situational options. This is a great one and really fun in play!
Great perspective :)
@@InsightCheck thanks! I love your engagement, and appreciate the way you interact with disagreeing comments 😀. Really hoping the best for this channel! Honestly I think you have some of the best takes out there. Keep it up.
You truly have no idea how much that means to me to read. Thank you! :)
There was a calculation done by someone in reddit for the saving throws. so dexterity is basically the baseline, a dex save is good, Inteligence is the best, Constitution is the worst, Strength is not as good as levels go higher but it depends on your campaign, if all of your enemies are casters then the save is good, everything else you will be better targeting dex.
Dude imaginé Shield of faith as a cantrips with the potencial to more ac.
Blade ward 1 action for 1-4 ac increase it's insane dude plus can be adquired by everyone with Magic initiate.
You can get cantrips from your background now. A gish character can now be built with something like Shillelagh AND use their desired spellcasting modifier for it. Also, Sorcerous Burst scales much better at higher levels. Once you reach level 5, the odds of getting an additional D8 is already 23%, very close to 1/4 odds. At level 11, the odds of this is 1/3. The average damage of the cantrip is still lower than Firebolt, but at level 11 and above it is extremely close to Firebolt in damage and you can pick the optimal damage type for the situation which means it can have a slight edge over Firebolt.
19:00 whoa whoa whoa... True Strike is the most S tier spell in the game! I wouldn't be surprised if it's the most selected cantrip from the 2024 PHB.
This video was very helpful for my Warlock with "pact of the Tome" where I can use any cantrip lays it out very plainly.
Glad I could help! :)
I like to combine point blank Eldritch Blast (Spell Sniper) with Monk’s new Flurry of Blows.
It’s fun and only requires a 2 level dip into Warlock.
With repelling blast that would be very cinematic, EB level number of "punches" throws them back 10-40 feet and then you flash across the field to deliver a punch or 2.
@@Ahglock Or just use FoB’s 3 punches before your release 3-4 “Eldritch Punches” that blast the enemy back like a finishing move
Chill Touch deserves at least D, not F. Once you run into an enemy with high regeneration power or an effect like some epic monsters of healing up to full hp really makes you thank for this spell
Call it F+ lol
Obviously these are just my opinions, there's going to be a reasonable case for anything to be made!
But it's only circumstantially useful, and very rarely at that. There are cases where it's exceptional like you say, but they are VERY fer and far between.
@@tibot4228 I guess its table dependent, but regn and or healing magic is not that rare at my table for enemies to have.
If you have Dynamic Lighting in a VTT, so are *actually using* visibility rules... Light can be a *must have*. Most of the party had Darkvision, but the human bumbling in the dark needed Light up until they got goggles.
A bit surprising you didn't like light as much as dancing lights. Dancing lights only last 1 minute and require you to be within range of them to move them or keep them up. Light lasts 1 hour, has no range, can be put on any object under 10ft in size and provides better light than one of the dancing lights orbs.
Using light you can fire an arrow across a cavern to see its makeup, use it as a distraction, or lay a longer lasting ambush than dancing lights.
Not saying either is amazing, but as a low level party with a member without darkvision its way better than a torch and has utility as you level moreso than dancing lights.
Just my opinion though😅
Dancing Light is inferior by all standards and is now the new “True Strike.”
If you multi class sorcerer and tempest cleric you can channel divinity sorcerers burst doing 56 damage and twin it doing 112 and do it all again as a bonus action if you’re 3 sorcerer 3 cleric all in the same turn doing a total of 224 across two targets at level 6
Kobold is a good race choice for tempest clerics. So if we are going tempest cleric/sorcerer multiclass being able to start in armor, with healing and good damage cantrip/options is a good enough compromise to start in cleric getting sorcerers burst from kobold, since we can always take resilient constitution later.
would love to see a spell rank for sorcerers
Interesting thought. Class specific lists could allow for some more nuance in the ranking whereas these needed to be a lot more general. I'll keep that in mind!
@@InsightCheckThe only spell list that matters is Sorcerer. 😅😂
I think that Shillelagh is a build defining spell and now with origin feats that allow any build to snag it with the guide background you can make any gish build happen. A charisma based paladin that smites evil with a big club? Heck ya. A Quarterstaff wisdom based ranger fey wandering? Duuude...
I'm thinking about building an eldritch knight around it and bumping his int to max.
I found this video after your more recent release of some of the monsters for 2024. Because there is a focus on a minor amount of elemental damage on each attack, even at low cr, Resistance seems like a genuinely applicable cantrip at low levels. I would consider picking it up at level 1/2, especially for subsequent fights of similar enemies. Cerics can train out of it by level 3 and you get the most bang for your buck early.
Blade ward is awesome with earth genasi
I think that Blade Ward could have some usefulness on either melee martials or characters with cantrip extra attack. If a fighter picks it via magic initiate, it could be a decent bump to durability. The action cast is still painful, but the concentration isn't competing with anything and they have solid con saves. Extra attack cantrip users can cast it easier than anyone else. There is a decent chance they will have something else they want to be concentrating on, but it is reasonable option if they don't.
Blade ward is great for a first level wizard who usually doesn't have any spell slot left to be concentrating on anyway. It effectively increases your AC by 1d4.
I agree with most of you tier rankings, my single hold out would be thorn whip. Forced movement in an enemy is awesome and the fact that it is a ranged melee attack (i know sounds contradictory) means that in the event someone does get in melee with my spell caster that I can use thorn whip without disadvantage due to it being a melee attack. Also it can be paired with Absorb elements. I don't know that I would put it into "S tier", but I think the forced movement alone should elevate it out of f tier! Love your videos by the way thanks so much
Shocking grasp feels like a must have alot for me. It gives you a free disengage. It's not my main damage dealer but it comes up alot
@@SashQuack but it's NOT a free Disengage, it only works if you hit, so if you need to get away from an enemy you're always better off disengaging or even dodging if there is more than one around you.
Yeah, I really don't understand why they removed the 'You have advantage on the attack roll if the target is wearing armor made of metal' on Shocking Grasp. Like, it didn't come up to often but it was a flavourful little buff when it did happen and the cantrip is not that strong either way.
The light cantrip is essential for my human wizard. It gets cast every time the party enters a dark area and allows him to cast all his spells that require sight. It’s A tier.
If we’re going off your criteria then Guidance is essentially a more versatile bless so realistically it should be in S.
Definitely S tier. It gets used constantly every time someone takes it. Sometimes it makes a difference, sometimes it doesn't, but there's generally zero opportunity cost for casting it so it's a straight upgrade to everyone's skill checks.
@Oniphire there is a bit of a cost now. It costs concentration again unlike the playtest so if you have a long duration concentration spell cast and want to keep it up going into another combat you can't cast Guidance. Or if you want to cast guidance mid combat which comes up in my games. But it's still great
@@grantgarbour I said there was GENERALLY no cost because, like InsightCheck, I didn't want to bother with the caveats. They exist but I assume anyone who reads that it requires concentration will understand them.
Understand these are evaluated in a vacuum but some can shine with certain subclasses. Chill Touch touch with Affoning Blast isn’t too bad for a warlock melee option. Acid Splash is great for Alchemists that can add their Intelligence to damage
Yeah of course! The whole point was to consider the general application not specific one off cases. I mentioned it in the pinned comment too!
So a few things to note about Light that I think you missed is it's mobility. You can cast Dancing Lights and move it with a Bonus Action, but Light could be cast on the human Paladin's shield and just move with them for free.
It's a subtle thing, but it can make a big difference.
Bladeward's use is niche, If you are going to use it it's probably going to be as part of your attack action as a Blade Singer Wizard, Eldritch Knight, or Valor Bard. This would be when you want to deal some damage to still be a threat, but your primary goal is to be a distraction, at least in the moment. I think C tier is appropriate.
It's been good on my High Elf Monk, too. Free Wizard Cantrip. Cast first round then bonus action attack or Flurry of Blows.
I feel like Shillelagh's main selling point is using it with a ranger with the druidic warrior fighting style. Letting a ranger focus on wisdom as their main stat is so good for both their spellcasting ability, as well as improving some of the most iconic skills for rangers, such as survival and perception. Also another point to mention is if a melee character takes it with magic initiate, it offers a great damage option for sword and board or duelling characters, but with a staff or club instead. I'd have it as A-tier personally.
Thank you for the list. I suppose I can quibble about some things. I'm old enough to remember when Light was a must have spell and could be cast on the eyes of your enemy to blind them for a bit. It gets more and more difficult to compile rankings like this as you can't just think in terms of the traditional full/half/third casters any longer. So many options are available to so many different types of characters, and there are so many ways to pick up spells, especially cantrips. I know we shouldn't consider niche cases, but it is so easy to pick up cantrips outside being a full/half/third caster with the spell on your list, that it can't be considered that niche any longer. Dipping, feats like Magic Initiate, and sub-class granted spells are very prevalent in the game these days; and it seems the new rules almost encourage it.
People keep forgetting that you can put the light spell on shackles or some important MacGuffin so that you can never lose track of it.
Or cast it on a rock and throw it.
Or cast it on a twigg and have a flying familiar carry it around.
I think Light deserves to be higher because with a creative mind you can really pull some extraordinary use out of it. One of my favorite uses of Light was using the color-changing effect to create a black light which helped us find the villain’s fingerprints. Another is casting Light on a Drow's armor to exploit her sensitivity to bright light.
Thorn Whip does not have a commonly resisted damage type though. It deals magical-piercing damage. Not "piercing from non-magical attacks" or poison damage. It's only really resisted by Plants and Swarms, two extremely rare creature types.
The magical/non magical distinction has almost certainly been removed from the game. Every feature or spell in the PHB that mentioned the distinction has been rephrased to just say “BPS” and this was the case throughout the UA too. Though we won’t have full confirmation until we see the Monster Manual, I am nearly 100% confident that the distinction is gone from the game.
While the distinction is gone, a lot of creatures that were previously resistant to nonmagical Piercing are looking like they aren't resistant to anything at all. Piercing is probably gonna be more resisted than some elemental stuff, but I'm honestly not sure how much.
Word of Radiance does let you choose which targets it effects, unlike Thunderclap, which allows you to use it in more situations without worrying about hurting allies. So I would probably bump it up a tier.
I think pointing out how useful creative spells in the most common ways they can be used is important to these tier videos. Rope could be clutch but if you don't know how to tie a knot it might not serve you. If you don't know, you don't know.
Word of Radiance is a blast spell centered on you, so it's great. Probably A tier if you plan on wading into the enemies.
Shocking grasp is a b+ for me. As a mage, I like close options incase something gets too close, and the disengage effect means I can move to a safe area even when damaging the opponent. I especially made use of it with an infiltrator armorer artificer, where I was super mobile and able to avoid opportunity attacks
Edit: and for thorn whip, I ~sometimes~ include it in melee builds. I used it as part of a warforged guardian armorer artificer where I was effectively a police bot
I feel like the cantrips you can pick up via the magic initiate origin feat like shillelagh really warrant so re evaluation. Like yes it's limited to the druid list but via the origin feat ls your fighter can pick it up now leading to some interesting build opportunities that require minimal investment.
Blade Ward in the UA was really good, so I'm not surprised it got nerfed/reworked for the final release.
I feel blade ward is something like in a video game where a boss uses a large telegraphed move. Implementing ideas like this would add value to the spell maybe
Blade Ward on eldritch knights looks okay imo at 7th level+
If monster resistances stay the same then ray of frost is better than firebolt. 4.5 damage vs 5.5 damage is very little especially when there are more fire immune/resistant creatures than cold. And the speed reduction is great. If your DM likes big maps (and they cannot lie), then I can't deny firebolt has an edge but otherwise I'm going ray of frost.
In 2014, Cold damage was actually slightly more resisted and immune than Fire shockingly. Not by much but it was. I am curious how the balance will shift once we see the new MM!
I agree with Thunder Clap being F, I used it on my Artificer tank to Misty Step in and Clap hitting a group and getting everyone's attention, but that very specific build and scenario where it highlights it's optimal use is exactly why it isn't good. In 2024 I would rather (free) Misty Step and Thunder Wave which would be a lot better.
Does True Strike work with crossbows? I ask because I just noticed that the Attack/Save header says "Melee" in it
It does yeah, there’s no restriction in the text itself which is where it matters!
For Chill touch I wanna point out Eldritch Knight or Valor bard. I'd put it in C because there are subclasses it would be pretty good on. While not the optimal choice for those, it's still viable and good if you want to make sure they can't heal off your damage. Definitely one of those "being good on some things saves it from F"
I would argue Sorcerous burst for S tier.
The reason being it gets extra damage dice like every other cantrip, which means more chances for it to pop off with rolling 8's. And it can do all the utility stuff firebolt can do and more due to the damage type being one you can pick.
True strike is much better than firebolt. Firebolt at level 1 does 1-10 damage, true strike with a light crossbow does 4-11. At level 5 firebolt does 2-20, true strike does 6-18. At the next scale you probably aren’t really using cantrips anymore.
One of the Homerules I had before 24 rules is increasing the Cantrip for Eldritch Knight from 2 to 3 at 3rd level to 4 at 10th.
Chill touch is good now for 7th + level EKs war magic melee
Fire Bolt is the go-to Ranged spell
blade ward: shines when you can replace an attack with a cantrip or can quicken a spell. it's easily as good as shield of faith but requires no spell slot
chill touch: gives you an option for your familiar to deliver other than shocking grasp.
mage hand: SUCKS people like to go on about its versatility, but honestly, it can't do much. you can have it hold a torch, but it only lasts a minute and you have to wave your arms and say magic words over and over and manually contorl it each round just for it to move at all. unseen servant can be done as a ritual, lasts an hour, can carry 3 tines as much, is actually invisible, has twice the range and doesn't need constant instruction. the only time mage hand is useful is when it's modified by other features or the extreme scenario where a button is on a ceiling, you dont have rope, no one can fly, and no one has a familiar. have a familiar and unseen servant and you never need mage hand. don't waste a cantrip slot on this trash.
produce flame: is great if you're limited in how many cantrips you have. it combines light and firebolt, plus it is unique in that when you throw the fire, it isn't casting a spell so I cannot be countered and doesn't require components.
shillelagh: bast choice for magic initiate as it let's you choose the ability score it works with.
I don't know i am not sure produce flame fits on B on a chart where fire bolt is S tier. It does less damage sure but the difference between d10 and d8 is pretty small. It has a shorter range and for some reason can't start fires, but it is also the light spell built into it. Worse than fire bolt sure, but not 2 tiers worse.
Dexterity is only a bad ability to target at extremely low levels. It tends to go down as monsters get stronger.
A fair point. It tends to just kinda be reasonable across the board. I’m looking very forward to dissecting the new MM though once it comes out!
It doesn’t make any sense that Shillielagh doesn’t work with great clubs.
Now that the damage scales clubs are now strictly better than great clubs in all situations. Why even keep the weapon around at that point?
The fact they took out the reference to "wood" was important to me, as now DM cannot rule it doesn't work on unique staffs made from glass or metal. But it makes me wonder why not have it work on bows, xbows, or maybe all simple weapons, or any weapon. Doesn't even work on Druid specific gear like Moon Sickle.
In my opinion poison spray should have been either a 10ft cube with a 5ft range or a 15 ft cube with a 10ft range.
It always for me felt like a grunt cleanup spell/ get off me tool for hordes encroaching on you.
If they wanted to make it single target and a attack it should deal some base damage on miss (not sure if this would be something to have stack with potent cantrip or if it should simply have that effect by default) then it can still be a good clean up spell even if it has a bad damage type and slightly lower reach then the likes of say, fireball.
If shocking grasp could be used as a bonus action. Then a bard with a rapier or an Arcane trickster doing a sneak attack suddenly seems pretty clutch.
18:35 Important point. It doesn’t “allow you” to use your spell casting ability. It forces you to.
Still a good Cantrip but this limitation is kind of annoying.
While Shillelagh does not. It allows. Making any shield using build stronger, if they just use a staff or stick, without needing to focus on caster attribute. In fact, True Strike, Shillelagh, and Blade Ward can all stack, making almost anyone with at least some part of that from Magic Initiate a viable gish with no resource cost other than 1 round setup time.
You are really underestimating Blade Ward, it's super good for Eldritch Knights, who are usually always in the thick of things, have high AC to begin with, have good concentration saves, don't have many spell slots or other concentration spells likely, and can cast it with their war magic feature without spending their whole action.
I think you may have missed the description of the tiers and my pinned comment. Something in C tier can absolutely shine and be god tier on the right character. By the same token, something only particularly useful with one class or subclass, is hardly generally good.
Yay, I'm back. I'll post my own tier list and see how much overlap there is! I'll be mentioning "circumstances" a lot, and those also include things like specific builds (e.g. Shillelagh ranger or wizards not preparing rituals), being a ritual, only being good at certain levels, or the component being too costly for the spell's effect/level (e.g. Chromatic Orb, Identify).
S (extremely useful in many/most circumstances):
- Mage Hand
A (very useful in many circumstances OR irreplaceable in its niche)
- Eldritch Blast, Guidance, Message, Mind Sliver, Minor Illusion (cooperative DM), Shillelagh, True Strike
B (somewhat useful in many circumstances AND great in its niche)
- Fire Bolt, Prestidigitation (cooperative DM), Ray of Frost, Sorcerous Burst, Spare the Dying, Starry Wisp, Toll the Dead
C (somewhat useful in many circumstances OR great in its niche)
- Blade Ward, Chill Touch (ew), Friends, Produce Flame (unless it can be hurled while Wildshaped), Sacred Flame, Thorn Whip, Vicious Mockery, Word of Radiance
D (circumstantial)
- Acid Splash, Dancing Lights, Elementalism (cooperative DM), Light, Poison Spray, Shocking Grasp, Thaumaturgy, Thunderclap
F (very circumstantial AND bad in its own niche)
- Druidcraft, Mending, Resistance
That's 8/33, though we're measuring different things and I'm using one more tier lol
Hi, I'm Jason. Now you know someone who doesn't love Mage Hand. Much like Prestidigitation, it's a useful spell that adds flavor to certain situations, but it doesn't *do* much of anything. Some of the things people like to claim using it for are either very niche to the point of not being useful, the application is actually outside the bounds of what the spell description says it can do, or the thing they do could just as easily have been done with their own, real hand without consequence. "I opened the chest with my magic! Huzzah!" Unless there actually was a trap, so what? If you did defeat a trap with it, did you steal the Rogue's thunder with your silly cantrip? But what if it was the rogue who cast it? Ok, now you're doing a cool thing - in that one, niche circumstance. Do it often, and it now becomes boring. It's a cantrip, so its uses are rightfully going to be limited, but most of what it can actually do genuinely doesn't matter.
To rank Prestidigitation at A but Druidcraft at C, I'm confused. Prest can clean your clothes when you fall in the water, and it can light your campfire for you or spice up your trail rations, and while those are "interesting" in the moment they hold little real value in most games because being wet has no drawback, bland food is a fact of life that's far more interestingly solved with a cooking/chef feat, and tinderboxes exist. Meanwhile, Druidcraft can literally predict the day's weather, which is genuinely useful in any scenario involving travel and adds depth to the world. Prest can make a small figuring that can be crushed by a strong wind, while Druidcraft can make a flower blossom and then given as a gift to an NPC going through a difficult time for a lasting, emotional connection.
Similarly, Thaumaturgy lets you command doors/windows to open a close (without a weight limit) - things you liked about Mage Hand, but you just glossed over it here.
Thornwhip shines, as do some of the others, in a multiclass build. Your pinned comment said you're not looking at specific use-cases, so I'll leave out the busted ways you can dominate a battlefield with this one. However, Shillelagh and True Strike are both spells that still suck on a typical single-classed caster, yet you've ranked them with clear implications that a martial character would actually be using them.
Light can be cast on a stone or coin and dropped into a well/pit to show you if you have a chance of traversing it or not. Cast it on a stone and use a sling to send it up into the air, and you've made yourself a warning/signaling flare. You can cast it on a martial's shield or sword and have light for an entire hour without concentration
For the combat spells, I agree with you on probably 80%, but for the utility spells, I think we've missed the mark, especially for non-arcane. You've also downranked some things for being tied to a single class, but the new backgrounds open cantrips from Cleric, Druid, and Wizard to any character for free, making them far more useful/usable than your list here indicates.
Starry Wisp as a Stars Druid is S tier, especially lvl 7 oneard. Contribute to dps even in Dragon/Chalice form, frees up BA for chalice-boosted healing word, and in Archer form, you can radient combo while a concentration spell is causing more chaos.
Mage hand is even stronger because the telekynetic feat exist so most time I see it it is invisible
chill touch is not F tier.
melee cantrips might be more dangerous but lets not pretend casters are never in melee. It’s also a D10 scaling cantrip that bypasses common resistances. Its components are Vocal and Somatic, you always have access to it even if you’ve had your equipment taken.
Chill touch can now target objects. Might be nice to have a cantrip to break things that doesn’t start fires.
Regarding the healing prevention, while its even more niche than creature healing, objects cant be healed either.
The spell chapter goes further into targeting specification saying a target can be a creature, object, or something else. Since chill touch says “target” it can target anything that isn’t somehow a creature or object, what ever that “something else” might be.
The fact you said firebolt was S tier while making Ray Of Frost A tier is, quite frankly, offensive.
A D10 of the second most resisted damage type is nowhere near good enough to be a “must have”
I mean, for what it’s worth, in 2014, cold is more resisted than Fire. They’re close, but cold takes it.
Fire Bolt can also target objects which helps.
There’s definitely an argument for it in S though :)
Okay, riding to the defense of thorn whip. My druid uses it all the time. They constantly use it to pull baddies away from casters, pulling baddie casters next to your melee PCs, or to pull them into static effects (at low levels I have always paired it with stuff like moonbeam). If you've already got your concentration spell up, especially since druids dish shit damage through cantrip selection, yanking enemies around the battlefield is frequently the best thing you can do with your action.
I will say that it gets less useful at higher levels, but even once I had access to 7th level spells I still found opportunities to use it.
You can get very wild with it. Let's say you're a 5th level party. Your PAM fighter is facing off against several baddies and you've cast a 3rd level moonbeam right next to him. They've approached a caster, but mooks got in the way. On the casters turn, they're gonna cast a spell and leave.
You can thorn whip the caster, pull them into the moonbeam, and they will take a PAM reaction. Let's say it's a glaive. That's 2d6+4d10+4 damage, and now the caster has to disengage if they want to run away.
You just need a bit of creativity, and you can always find a good option for Thorn Whip.
Shocking grasp sounds like a defibrillator and a fishing tool
Sorcerous Burst & Chromatic Orb sound like the beginnings of a fun wild magic sorc.
Thorn Whip's forced movement definitely makes it better than F, though probably no higher than B and I wouldn't argue too hard about a C, and as many others have noted Shillelagh is an amazing build-around spell for anyone who gets Extra Attack at any point...definitely enough to make it A Tier if not S.
But the confusing one to me is True Strike being rated below Firebolt. That just...doesn't make sense. True Strike with a Light Crossbow (the easy version of the spell that everyone can manage) is flatly better than Firebolt in terms of damage at levels 1-10 (a lot better at 1-4), and equal at 11-16. It falls very slightly behind at 17th, but that's real late for the advantage to matter much. It doesn't set things on fire, but Radiant is likely a better damage type than Fire in most cases, so that's a wash or maybe an advantage to True Strike.
And that's leaving aside Weapon Masteries and Classes like Valor Bard who can do other stuff with it. Like, if Firebolt is only A Tier then I wouldn't argue about True Strike being there as well, the two are honestly pretty comparable from level 5 on, and both are less impressive than Eldritch Blast, but it being rated below a spell it is flatly better than for the first 10 levels of play is really weird.
Hey, do the math on True Strike. Just normally for, say, some Wizard, not even getting into what it can do for a Rogue. At 1st level, our wizard has a Light Crossbow and an Int of 16. They can cast Fire Bolt for +5 Attack and 1d10 (average 5.5) damage... or True Strike for +5 Attack and 1d8+3 (average 7.5!) damage. So they hit their next Tier at Lv 5, and can cast Fire Bolt for +7 Attack and 2d10 (average 11) damage... or True Strike for +7 Attack and 1d8+1d6+4 (average 12) damage. At Lv 11, it's 3d10 (average 16.5) vs 1d8+2d6+5 (average 16.5) damage. Yeah, you'll retire it at Lv 17, but how many games go that long?
"I rarely see Light cast ingame... I wanna put it in F-tier, but I won't..." 🤣Maybe people should remember the rules for vision better. I know most races have darkvision, which is pretty ridiculous to begin with, but even if you have darkvision, you can see in total darkness only like you had dim light, which gives you disadvantge on perception checks. I assume this is probably ignored by many tables pretty much. Most of my characters in the past didn't even have darkvision (human/hafling), it was pretty much a no-brainer pick for me and I used it all the time, because I then could just use an Action to cast light on my weapon or arcane focus, instead of having to deal with some other light source like a lantern or torch. I guess we can agree to disagree on your ranking of the Light spell. 😉Anyways, keep up the great work with your videos!
Appreciate the kind words at the end but I should mention that there are plenty of reasons someone wouldn’t cast or pick light that are not related to not remembering the rules for vision like if they aren’t going somewhere dark lol. But also, there are other solutions like Dancing Lights or just using a torch :P
Thorn whip in the hands of a high level druid is pretty funny though. You can whip pull people off of the top of castle walls/towers/cliffs at what 400+ foot range?
Absolutely love the imagery of this lol
If a spell lasts 1 minute and casts in 6 seconds, you can realistically enter the lair with it precast. You can cast it as many times as you need to provide coverage. So in many scenarios the action/bonus action it takes to cast is not always needed. If there's something in RAW that says you can't do this, let me know.
EDIT: Yes I know you cannot sneak and do this with V spells. You can't be doing very much of anything at all but you can look and move.
Thorn Whip in F??? Clearly someone hasn't pulled a baddy into a moonbeam before. Such a fun spell and the fact that it's a 30 foot melee attack means you don't have disadvantage at close range. It also works with things like a swarmkeepers gathered swarm ability for more damage/movement.
I can see a valor or eldritch Knight (or bladesinger) casting blade ward in place of an attack.
Thorn whip is not that often resisted cause it is piercing from a magical source
I think Chill Touch got nerfed with it becoming a touch spell, but I wouldn't put it in F tier. The fact that it shuts off troll's and any other creature with regeneration would rank it at least a C tier. It was my go to cantrip for any caster class (even warlocks), but making it a touch has crippled the cantrip a great deal. Elemetalism is very useful especially combined with shape water.
Thorn Whip seems like a B honestly just considering how well it synergizes with amazing druid spells like Spike Growth or lingering AoEs
For blade ward, you can just permanently cast it if you don't want to lose your turn.
I know this is subject to change with the new rules, but outside of PC's heavily prioritizing dex over strength, after CR 7 dexterity saves fall to the bottom 3 pretty consistently. That being said under cr 2 its one of/is the best, falling behind through cr 7, and most cantrip use will be against those lower cr creatures, but overall, dex is not a bad save to target
Guidance is easily S tier, if its not then i dont know how any utility cantrip can be. Its used at my tables like 3-6 times a session, provides tangible benefits all the time and makes everyone in the party early on as good as anyone who is a specialist in a skill at that skill. I dont think ive seen a dnd table without someone who had access to guidance for like 10+ years
Starry wisp feels like something clerics should get as well. They need an attack roll cantrip.
Why no Create Bonfire? Is it in a different category or just that bad?
It’s not in the 2024 PHB.
@@InsightCheck ahha! That does explain it
Very surprised At Friends' F tier ranking. "The charmer has Advantage on any ability check to interact with you socially." Surely, having Advantage fot 1 minute on Persuasion, Deception, or Intimidation checks against someone is very useful in the right circumstance. Certainly is in Baldur's Gate 3 😛 I personally like that cantrip. Very useful in social scenarios.
Foreign whip I think you're judging a little harshly as it is a great way to get extended use out of a lot of their AOE control spells such as Spike growth. I also think that you are missing one of the biggest benefits of word of radiance in that unlike most other of these burst spells you get to choose your targets in my mind that makes it a lot better than thunderclap.
Celestial warlock + true strike + agonizing = +15 dmg
Plus, any additional effects the weapon might have, smite, sneak attack, poisons, or anything else that you can jam in there.
@@barubary436 Bingpot. True Strike is S-Tier now.
By that point you have 2 eldritch blasts which will do more damage, unless you built for it with a fighter dip or have a sweet magic weapon. EB is probably better, though still not that good.
@@Ahglock 2d10 + 10 < 1d8 + 1d6 + 15
@@Ahglock I think you should consider that both attacks are made with disadvantage.
We are comparing a melee cantrip with a ranged one. I think that one issue with EB is you have to hex to make the most of it, spending your concentration to max it out when you would probably prefer another, stronger spell for that.
The way you were talking about vicious mockery makes it sound like you have to see and hear the creature, But it's see OR hear them. So you can cast it on a creature in silence. You can also cast on a creature in darkness. But not both.
Vicious Mockery is the same range, damage and damage type (psychic) as Mind Sliver. Yes INT save is nicer but the attack debuff is much more generally useful than the saving throw debuff which is quite niche. I’d say they’re both A or switch their ratings.
My favorit starting Cantrip-set is firebolt for range attack, dancing light for light spell (because human, i like the option to cast the light away from me, even, when its weaker as the light spell). And shoking grap, for the case a enemie came close to me.
I dislike the chill touch change. Its fits now the name, but i liked the image, of summon a skelleton hand, that i shot at the target (or, that is summoned near him and the target need to dodge it).
Light is so much better than dancing lights.
No concentration, bigger radius of light, longer duration. More utility because you put it on an object that doesn't stop being lit up no matter the distance (put it on a copper coin and drop it into a pit that you can't see the bottom of). You can put it on your human fighter's weapon or shield or something and they are seeing normally now with barely any problem.
With light you set it and forget it with barely any problems. Dancing lights could force you to lose concentration in a critical moment blinding the party and forcing you to use your action again (not to mention eating concentration for better things).
Chill touch definitely got nerfed but as someone who just fought a hag who had it, dont sleep on the no healing part. I got knocked unconscious from chill touch, the healer couldnt heal me and things were looking bad. I then rolled a nat 20 on a death save for the first time ever, only to not get up because I can't regain that one hit point yet. We pulled through, but man it was butt clenching!
For anyone playing using a vtt, light is pretty useful.
Acid Splash I feel is a great Cantrip. the 5' radius is the same spell effect area is a 3 by 3 grid what other cantrip can hit upto 9 creature marching in formation. the Square it is cast in and all adjacent squares. The same AOE as thunder wave and better then burning hand and you can cast it within 30' of you amazing. I will so use this for a Kobold that will flavor it as his Breath Weapon