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I know there's been a few lengthy tier lists in a row but DON'T PANIC - just imagine it's 29 shorts in a row (you can pretend to scroll on the screen every 60 seconds, it's what I do when watching these back)
At 8:04 you said the Assassin rogue does 80d6 on a crit and with death strike. This is not true because the rogue only has 10d6 sneak attack dice as crit double damage dice and death strike doubles the damage. So, in reality the math should be 40d6 since 10d6*2*2=40d6. . Or the better way to write 20d6=total *2
I think Mastermind rogue is one of those things in dnd where it's best used not as a player subclass, but for fleshing out a BBEG or better yet, one of the BBEG's lieutenant. When the party captures and interogates a villain, and the party uses Zone of truth, and operates on the information as 100% ineffable, makes for a great rug pull.
Also will suit players that like that sort of shenanigan themselves - at least for those with DM's that really do their best not to meta game. Get yourself captured on purpose or try to join the BBEG's cult - doubtless risky moves, but when they can't in any easy way prove you false a little gift of the gab, a good faith offering... The only downside would be game pacing for the group as a whole could suffer, but again at the right table with the right DM that isn't a problem at all. And really that is the thing with almost every subclass in the right place for the right people its unique enough to really play into. Which is where the new PHB for me really starts to fall down so much uniqueness has been lost - giving everyone so much of everything and really smoothing out the peaks just lends itself to a more bland experience IMO.
I used it in a multiclass to round of my character and get some use out of bonus action, since I had little to use back then. Probablly not the strongest, but fun to get some extra versatility.
This can be fun, but in general I'd advise you to heavily telegraph this feature to your players somehow beforehand. Not sure the best way to go about that, but from my experience the whole "your abilities just don't work on this guy for seemingly no reason" isn't actually any fun unless your players had a reasonable chance to have figured that out on their own. These "gotcha" moments can feel cheap if not set up properly.
The throw away line of “Pull blades out of your brain” gave me such a messed up but fun role play idea. A psychopathic soul knife rogue that makes it seem like they are summoning their blades from their head. They let out a sadistic laugh as they bring their hand to their head and slowly pull out the knife, as if they had previously stabbed themselves in the brain for fun. It’s so messed up but so fun for role play wise.
Arcane Trickster does kind of sputter out on its own, but that's why I'm multiclassing into the Shinobi wizard. Thanks for the multiattack, Ryoko's Guide!
Quick note for Phantom Rogue, the necrotic damage to another creature isn't half of the sneak attack damage but damage equal to half of your sneak attack dice rounded up which is overall more damage than half your sneak attack
Edit: my math is off. Read follow up comments... At lvl 10 average sneak attack is 30. Half your sneak attack dice would be 5. Half of your average sneak attack damage would average at 15. There is no instance where Half of a rogues sneak attack dice will be more than half of their sneak attack damage.
@@commanderzulu4724 at level 10 your sneak attack is 5d6 which averages 17.5 which you may round to 18. Half of that is 9. Half of your sneak attack dice rounded up is 3d6 which averages 10.5 which you could round up to 11. 11>9 however this only matters on levels where you have an odd number of sneak attack dice and thus half those dice would have to be rounded. At level 20 this doesn't matter as 10d6 averages 35 and 5d6 averages half of that.
@123benyb so I did forget that you get a sneak attack die every other lvl so my math was off. But also it seems that there was a miss understanding during your initial post where you said it is "half the sneak attack dice rounded up" I thought you meant damage equal to number of dice, not you get to roll half of your sneak attack dice rounded up that does necrotic damage.
... please clarify my interpretation of the new-rules; but isn't Sneak-Attack (2024) now only triggered by a "conventional" Attack-Action once-per-turn? True-Strike being a Spell-Attack-Action should limit Sneak-Attack from ever triggering; correct? This... in-addition to not being able to trigger "Sneak" on any "reaction".
@@RoyHobbs-f4v "Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack roll if you have Advantage on the roll and the attack uses a Finesse or a Ranged weapon. " True strike makes an attack roll (it's a spell attack but sneak attack doesn't specify, it just says attack roll) and it uses a weapon (a weapon with which you have proficiency and that is worth 1+ CP is listed in the components) which can be finesse or ranged. As for the reaction part I wasn't able to quickly find the exception you were referring to and based on the text of Sneak attack I believe you may apply sneak attack damage to a reaction attack provided you meet the prerequisites. Furthermore, True strike uses an action rather than a reaction so a ruling that excludes reaction attacks wouldn't apply.
I actually dislike it requiring to use your spell casting modifier. The heavy focus on mental stat and spell casting in DnD is a bit excessive. I honestly rule it should be optional
@@thesquishogods8015 There's a lot of this. It's also part of 1 of the reason that ranger is the new equivalent of the 2014 monk, lagging behind everyone else and requiring DM buy in to be "average/usable/useful".
One thing you forgot about Inquisitive is that the Sneak Attack use only 1 bonus action total and lasts for a minute... all other rouges have to reuse the bonus every turn to use hide or somthing to get the sneak attack active. This allows the inquisitive rogue to use their bonus for other things.
THIS Nothing better than standing in the back and getting sneak attack every turn as an archer. BA dash or hide to avoid the conflict, constantly shuffling around and always striking true. You can pop in, disengage, and pop back all the while keeping your sneak attack on the target regardless of your allies placement. I would think the rogue would usually be the first to act and in a system where combat is usually over after 3-5 turns, not getting Sneak on the first round is debilitating to a rogue.
@@CaptCKernel I'm playing an Eladrin Inquisitive Rogue, and being able to bamf around to avoid other enemies with Fey Step and still hit the BBEG with sneak attack is amazing - being able to just get 60 feet away from an enemy and still hit with sneak attack is very juicy
I have a Scout rogue in my game and its "back up when approached" ability is slept on. My player has sharpshooter, and so he can do massive damage from very far away, and ignore cover. The setup is very simple, stand far enough away from the enemies so that they would have to dash to ever get close to you (60-120 ft generally). Because they dashed they had no chance to attack, and the rogue immediately backs up 15 ft as a reaction (no opportunity attacks). On the rogues turn he can back up to 45 ft, and even has his bonus action free to dash or hide. This results in a cost free repeat of the last round, the monster has to dash to get close, and doing so will waste its entire turn. Even ranged attacks from the monsters are hard to use because the ranger can reliably use BA dash to stay out of the short range of most weapons, causing them to attack at disadvantage. That being said, while not necessary I would recommend splitting uncanny dodge and The Scouts reactions so their not interfering with each other. Pretty stupid that as written the rogue has 2 features that are so directly incompatible like that.
The assassin level 13 feature is even better than you described, because they take the 2d6 every time they fail a save against that poison, which they do at the end of each of their turns for the next minute.
That boosts the base (best case scenario, your numbers may be lower) 3.3 DPR by ~1.7 DPR, to a grand total of 5. If they survive to round 2. And if they're not immune. It's still cool! But... not exactly stellar. Of course, paired with a level 10+ Great Old One warlock using Hex to give disadvantage on Con saves, this could be up to ~9 DPR. But more importantly, it would help keep them Poisoned. Almost no matter what you do to it, it's not a crazy amount of damage. Rogues just don't hit super hard. But the extra control aspect is actually quite nice! Still, I can't imagine ever wanting to take Assassin over Thief. To me, just getting a little extra damage here and there is not worth giving up a truly unique feature with a far higher ceiling.
Will, I think you missed one massive part about Spell Thief on the Arcane Trickster - the feature is only consumed if you STEAL a spell. That means that you can pretty much spam Spell Thief every turn as long as the spell that you counter is 5th level or higher. And considering you'd be facing liches and ancient dragons and shie, a lot of DMs are gonna wanna use a lot of big spells for interesting combats. And those big spell are gonna be counter-able by the Spell Thief feature. Only once you've countered a spell of 4th level or lower does the feature actually require a long rest to recharge. This makes Spell Thief pretty insane defensively against casters in tough situations.
I feel that you omitted the best roleplay feature of the psi blade: the fact that your psi weapon attacks don't leave marks. It is literally the Ninja Glass Knife from actual history, cranked up to 11. I built a character around just this bit. It is amazing and I hope I get to play it someday.
Good thing to know that I think you over looked with inquisitive rogue 1: Bonus action search action makes you the best anti-rogue because to find a stealthed creature you need to take the search action which wastes your main action normally. 2: Advantage on a check, also means if it has a passive effect, that passive effect is increased by +5, meaning with observant and Expertise they would have passive investigation and perception of like +4/5 mod +5 advantage +12 Expertise +5 Observant So I think their passive perception which is always active would be 37
I brought an Inquisitive Rogue to level 20 (or rather 19 and one level of Knowlegde cleric). One of most played and least rebuilt characters. I failed the contest a total of five times in all the time I played him. I got him an Ioun Stone of Mastery so unless a creature is able to roll Deception over 29, it gets super hit super hard super fast.
I really appreciated how you included the old subclasses and didn't stopped at only the 2024 PHB new 4. It shows how the old ones interact with the new 2024 base rouge class and with other new subclasses too
The new player handbook goes out of its way to say that it's 5th edition and that all older content that hasn't been updated is still backwards compatible.
Headphone warning. The promotion starting at: 4:33 is way louder than the rest of the video. From what movie/TV series is the clip at 14:03 taken from?
Yeah I agree also, thief with scrolls is nuts. But I think this channel over scored assassin, honestly I think assassin is dogshit and dungeon dudes nailed that one.
@@HuNtOziO The chancel was incorrect by their damage by a lot at level 20 it's only supposed to be 20d6*2 for damage. However, saying the 2024 assassin is worse the 2014 assassin is just objectively wrong. imo there are subclass worse than assassin rogue.
Where did your numbers come from? For example the 88d6. Since booming blade is a d8. Rogues only have 10d6 + their weapon if it is a d6. So, with a crit that is 20d6 then with Death strike level 17 if they fail the save for that feature that would only be 40d6. Booming blade would be 12d8+ if they move 4d8. You only double damage dice so with a level 20 assassin you only get a 20+dex mod I assume it is 20 making it a plus 5. The reason for this is their movement is not part of the initial damage roll. So, in conclusion Assassin with booming blade will do 40d6+12d8+50+4d6 if they move. Or more accurately ( 20d6+12d8+25)*2 +4d8 if they move and everything goes right with the attack.
@@crosmostempest3669 You are correct. Since again you can only multiply by 3 as an assassin rogue. nothing multiplies by 3 other than decimal equals 80d6 dice 88/4=22d6 before you multiply. you will get 48d6+12d8+50+4d8 if they move. Granted we still need to know the weapon they use. So that 12d6 more I don't understand where it comes form.
27:45 Three VERY important things about how INSANELY impressive Panache charm is. 1) Its an ability, not a spell. It cannot be detected during its casting, duration, and ending. It requires no spell slots. You spam the ability with zero consequences. Compare this Charm Person, in which the target realizes its been charmed after 1 minute and will likely get very pissed at you. 2) It can target any creature, there is no type limit. If you speak the same language you can charm it. Get a magic item which allows you to temporarily speak an additional language and you can out-seduce the Bard. Speak Draconic and seduce Red Dragon. Speak Infernal and seduce an Erinyes. The sky is the limit. Just avoid Fey creatures like Elves since they are immune. 3) You will rarely ever fail. At level 11 your Swashbuckler Rogue with Expertise in Persuasion and 16 CHA cannot roll lower than a 21 (and can roll as high as 31). Few players or characters are going to roll a high Insight (WIS) check against you. Just be careful with Clerics and Druids. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to use Panache to convince this shopkeeper that I should receive that magic item for free. Just think of the potent advertising of me wearing it; its priceless.
This was both informative and sussinct recap of the most key points of the subclasses. The tier rating is just a bonus. I forwarded this video to all the rogues in my campaign just to remind them of the awesome capabilities each of them possess. I wish you continue to do this for all the classes, please!
I do like most of the Rogue sub-classes with Phantom and Soul Knife being my favorite. Its really a shame that Mastermind and Inquisitive are so lackluster because I could see some really interesting things done with them, particularly if they had Cunning Strike options made for them. I could see Mastermind having an option where they could allow another creature to either take a special reaction using Cunning Strike to make an attack or even allow the creature they're helping taking their turn immediately after the Rogue. For Inquisitive I could see a Cunning Strike that gives a quick scan effect like you could get a quick rundown of weaknesses or resistances or maybe even an option to change out damage types but that might be better for a more 'magical' sub-class. I do think that both have a lot of different ways where they could be expanded on.
I think it's highly dependent on the type of campaign you're in. Lots of cool and interesting magic items and spell scrolls? It's a great subclass. Few magic items and spell scrolls, and no cool items that you can use with your bonus action? You're just a slightly more mobile and sneaky regular rogue until level 17. Hopefully the guidance in the new DMG will mean the typical experience is more like the former than the latter.
The thief is super dependent on the campaign and the DM, dungeon dudes like to keep their videos objective and objectively, there is no way to know how good the thief will be in any given campaign. Half of the power this video ascribes to the thief was dependent on them having specific magic items. I honestly think we won't know how strong this is until we get the new DMG with their recommendations for magic items for a party.
Swashbuckler Rogue + any Warlock (Hexblade is the obvious choice, but Archfey is good too) is NUTS. One application of Panache then using Booming Blade with a vex mastery rapier is insane. That creature will not want to attack anyone but you for a full minute, you have advantage from vex and thus you have sneak attack, and any time it moves closer it eats additional damage from Booming Blade. Ideally you have Agonizing Blast on Booming Blade too, to add your Charisma modifier to both damage rolls of that cantrip.
So I just realized something great about Psychic Veil: the invisibility only ends if you damage a creature or force them to make a saving throw, but not if you make an attack. So you could just sneak into a place and damage all the gear and depending on the DM’s discretion even trigger traps against your enemies there.
This video made me subscribe, I love seeing the full list of subclasses and with a greatly explained pros and cons of the class. hope to see more like this. please bard next
Shorts... Bro... Read Arcane Trickster again. You can just Nope! a spell, sure. *If you don't absorb the spell, you can NOPE AGAIN! next turn.* Absolute S Tier.
The Swashbuckler feature, "Panache" is one of the most powerful features game wide. Mass Charm without concentration? Yes, please!! No magic involved and the charmed condition doesn't end if you decide to start carving on your victim. If you're a duel class caster then Enthrall and Tongues are perfect fit.
On the arcane trickster- I propose Advanced Mage Hand (feat or magic item) You can cast spells with a range of touch through it, you can take the help action with your reaction (you can't do it for yourself, but you can for others). it doesn't cost your bonus action to move it. it just does the thing and follows along with you and your intent within range. at half the range, with an Action, the weight it can lift is half what you can lift, and you Can make attacks with it (no sneak attack bonus. you can drop a boiling pot on someone's head though). You also take psychic damage equivalent of any AOE or other reasonable source if it gets hit while using this ability. So basically just giving it some of the Familliar functionality that it makes little sense that it doesn't have, but balanced to not be too easily abused.
I'm usually a DM but I got the chance to be a player character during a one shot and made a very gimicky Harengon Swashbuckler Rogue. His whole build was just for insane initiative. The 1 shot was level 12 so I had reliable talent. Harengon get to add proficiency bonus to initiative which means reliable talent works on it. That means I'm starting at 10 initiative. I had 20 Dex and 20 Cha and 4 proficiency bonus from being level 12. I decided to pick the Alert feat for the extra +5 to initiative. That brought my final total to a minimum roll of 10 and a bonus of +19. Considering a natural 1 initiative roll got me a 29 initiative, it's safe to say no one went before me.
The scout feature can be secretly good for kiting. You bonus action dash back from combat and fire your sneak attack bow. They have to dash as an action to catch up. You do your scout reaction. Now you can use your bonus action for something other than disengage. So you can dash or hide (or steady aim if you think one more sneak attack will finish them)
I'm in a waterdeep campaign as a rogue now and planning on going 11 swashbuckler Rogue for reliable Talent, 6 psi warrior fighter for extra attack, action Surge, the 6th-level feat, and the extra psi warrior abilities, and 3 gloom stalker Ranger for the first turn extra attack and damage, darkvision, invisibility in darkness and a few support spells. So, at level 20, with all the above that's 6 attacks on the first turn using action Surge, with sneak Attack, a extra d8 of psychic damage each hit, a extra d8 with the gloom stalker's dread ambusher feature, and a plus 15 to initiative.
4:11 Worth noting, there is a niche use of this to grab healing for your Rogue before the big battle. Just have your Cleric buddy cast Healing Word or Cure Wounds on you, have them choose to fail the check, and now you have access to healing in case things get too hairy. As long as your Cleric has at least 2 healing spells, this basically gives your team an extra healer, which can help in a worst case scenario.
The arcane trickster is an amazing dip for bladesinger wizards. Those three levels net you 2 extra damage dice, better hp dice, and the ability to be a solid part-time front-liner without sacrificing too much in spellcasting. Thanks to the arcane trickster stacking with wizard, you get a single level of lost spellcasting back, which is huge.
Something interesting about the inquisitive rogues insightful fighting, it doesn’t contain a lot of the limitations that other sneak attack generators do, so you could technically use it to sneak attack multiple times per turn.
i love your ad breaks they are some the more creative ones, eating my dinner and i nearly choke when i hear' yar me heartys are ye tired of getting seamen on your poopdeck' god dammit that was out of bloody know where.....never change dude
17:11 You don't need to do it every turn. As long as your target lives and you don't target another one with the feature, you retain the benefit for 1 minute and the target can't do anything about it. It doesn't end after the attack. And if you lose the contest, you can try again the next turn.
One thing that makes Inquisitive good IMO is the BA to do a perception or investigation check. While there are no mechanics for that in combat RAW (at least in 5e), Ive had DMs grant advantage on the attack for sussing out a weak point. I've had instances out of combat where a perception check is requested and my rogue gets a second chance to roll because of this feature. With the way Invisibility is written, its a low level ability that can completely nerf an encounter as you can track the enemy while they cannot be seen. With the complexities of BBEG fights, where the objective could be kill the enemy OR stop the enemy (like they are trying to conduct a ritual, etc) it allows the rogue to showcase all of their abilities to zip around the battlefield and interact with the things that would normally take 2-3 turns to figure out. I understand the list is based off standardization, but if you have a crafty DM the Inquisitive Rogue is my favorite class/subclass to both be consistently and constantly valuable to the party as well as allow the DM to better showcase the storyline through character actions.
Also, are you referencing Swashbuckler for "better options to set up sneak attack"? I would disagree because the chances that the rogue is designed for 1v1 combat is not very high. One full turn from a Death Knight could down a level 20 rogue with fairly average damage rolls, and as the game progresses even having a 20 in Dex means an AC below 20 for the class. Not a lot of room to boost HP within the class as well. As for Steady Eye, its basically allowing you to always roll with advantage outside of combat. If you are in combat, BA dash and now you can move your "full" movement to gain the benefit. Again, not the bestest of the bestest but that is something you can use almost every session whereas there are dozens of subclass features throughout rogue that are more niche or could possibly not even be viable throughout an entire campaign. TLDR - Inquisitive is fairly awesome, but please dont fight me about it...fight the Paladin about it, because Lemmy agrees. Isnt that right Lemmy? (he just shakes his head, calls me blasphemous and walks away....)
The incredible part of phantom subclass is that it is not specified that you can only use wails of the grave once per sneak attack, so if you spend all your wails of the grave uses and destroy your soul trinkets to gain more use, you'll deal 10d6 physical + 12*5d6 in one attack, what, combined with the auto crit of level 20 gives a total of 140d6 of additional damage (plus 120d6 dealt to one to 12 other ennemies)
If you have the skulker feat on your rogue the supreme sneak from thief makes it possible for you to hide once at the start of initiative and not need to hide again as long as you can get behind the cover since neither hits not misses will reveal your location
What I would love to see with this video, or next, is how you would change up the old subclasses so they would look better in the 2024 rule set. Take the concepts and change the mechanics behind it to better fit. I feel like doing that would take each subclass up 1 or 2 tiers
I am playing an Inquisitive Rouge Goblin Pirate in a game and I will say I am having loads of fun (DnD is almost always fun) and love my character. But everyone basically collectively agreed I chose a very weak subclass compared to the rest of the party. Even Insightful Fighting, their most interesting ability, is often outclassed by the now default Steady Aim. So my DM and a fellow player who also DMs games worked together to make me a Rework of Inquisitive that keeps all the original abilities but buffs and builds off them to actually be useful!!! To give some shortened examples: - Eye for Detail now also gives you one additional Expertise between perception, investigation, and insight and ALSO makes it that I can use Wisdom in place of Intelligence for Investigation checks (as to avoid making Inquisitive even more of a MAD subclass), - Ear for Deceit was buffed from 8 to 9 (so with the presumed Expertise and a +3 you could be hitting 18 which passes more DCs) AND when I reach level 10 (as to not be completely overshadowed by Reliable talent) just Always Works, just always knowing if someone is Lying (or Disguised!) via non-magical means. - Speaking of which, they made Insightful fighting better, it only lasts 3 rounds instead of a full minute, but during that time the targeted creature has a -2 to hit me (because studying someones moves should reasonably make you better at avoiding them) AND tacks an extra 1d6 sneak attack die against that target (which, while unintentional, would likely mesh with the 2024 Rogue's cunning strikes [plus at level 10 it goes up to 2d6]) - Steady Eye now benefiting Perception, investigation, AND Insight so that it meshes with insightful Fighting and makes for a more enticing option versus Steady Aim. AS WELL as making it so I instantly know an invisible creature is within 30 ft (though not where they are) and do not suffer disadvantage when attacking them (which MIGHT be overpowered given how hiding works in 2024 now since that would technically be an invisible creature). - Unerring eye (which for the record is so dumb: Paladins can tell you every single zombie in a 60 foot radius with a sneeze at like level 2 while the Inq rogue at level 13 firstly has to ASSUME THERE IS AN ILLUSION OR OTHER THING to even think to USE THIS and even THEN it just CONFIRMS or DENIES it doesn't give you any actual info despite having LIMITED USES so if anyone in your party is a shapechanger or using ANYTHING illusory this ability will just ALWAYS PING) just always works. - And of course the subclass capstone: instead of just tacking on 3d6 that has been moved to Insightful fighting inherently (and spread out over the levels). Now, so long as I get insightful fighting on a creature my next attack is a critical against them. I can only do this to any given creature once a day, but any number of creatures. Which I think is a MUCH cooler ability. All in all I loved what they did with it, keeping the original flavor but really exemplifying them as someone who always just keenly aware of whats going on around them and using their understanding of peoples actions and intents to fight against them. I also just really love the added pseudoprogression of the abilities. Going from: reliably tell people are lying -> to knowing if someone is hidden nearby -> to always being able to see through non-magic lies and disguises -> to always knowing if anything nearby is trying to trick you or out of place. It just makes for a much more useful utility as the ever-observant role while also being able to wallop out damage in combat, it doesn't sacrifice utility for power or vice versa which I really appreciate and at the same time doesn't feel broken against some of the other subclasses out there (looking at all the casters and the 2024 ones).
I'm sad the Inquisitive was ranked so low, it's one of if not my favorite, but I recognize that's also because I want to multiclass it with Fighter or Ranger, just enough for Extra Attack. The feat crossbow expert becomes almost necessity so you can dual wield, a hand crossbow being the off hand to fire at the target of Insightful Fighting, while the main hand is for stabbing a flanked melee enemy. It does come with set up time, but an easily set amount, and like the Swashbuckler it strives for more attempts to get Sneak Attack off. Good content, keep it up.
The new Arcane Trickster's Spell Thief features *does* work on higher level spells. The limitation you quoted is only for the clause allowing you to cast the spell yourself. You can still use the feature to disable high-level spells. Def agree with your appraisal of the new Thief. It looks so much fun now (esp when paired with High Elf)! Way better than its previous incarnation. I will say, though, I'm surprised you made no mention of the fact that Fast Hands allows Thief Rogues to steal things off of enemy combatants without substantially impacting their own action economy.
Mastermind Misdirection feature requires that a creature grants you cover. All medium creatures can provide all other medium creatures cover, no need for small race limitations. requires almost no set up beyond a creature being between you and the attacker. you can even choose for the attack to target an ally who has higher AC or resistance.
So, every Thief wants an Artificer to be their sugar daddy in a campaign that uses the rules from Helena's Guide to Monster Hunting or something like it. Got it. 😁👍
@@owenveighey1765 just make Scrolls yourself by taking 1 level dip in wizard. 50g a pop for True Strike cantrip Scrolls. Always sneak attack twice a round of combat. Boom. Broken.
@clarkkent163000 magic initiate doesn't give you access to the spell list. Just a select few spells. You can only craft spells of which you have in your spell list and prepared that day.
@clarkkent163000 you need to craft true strike Scrolls if you want to sneak attack twice in one Round. Bonus action cast true strike scroll. Hold action to cast true strike when your turn ends.
This is one of those times when a DM just has to say, "I realize that's technicaly RAW, but I'm not allowing that. But have an inspiration, because that's funny."
I like the barbarian feature primal knowledge. You can use strength for certain ability checks while raging, and stealth is one option. So a berserker barbarian, rogue
It’s funny that SINK has come out now… now I’ve been working on a swashbuckler rouge that has a tattoo of a sexy beholder on his back… I’ve even started on the tattoo design
While the new Thief is amazing with Magic Items, Fast Hands pairs really well will other items too! If you pick up the new version of the Healer feat (which as an origin feat you can get at level 1) and a few Healer's Kits along with weapon mastery for daggers, you're getting two attacks plus healing in the same turn without ever having to multiclass. The healing doesn't scale amazingly as you level up, but given that it works with hit dice and uses of an item that is fairly cheap (5 gold for a 10-use kit), it's decent. If nothing else, it's 1d8+PB of healing to yourself, which could help Rogue be less of a glass cannon. (Also from what I've read, there's nothing that says you can't use the Utilize action twice per turn)
Fun fact, if spell thief doesn't steal the spell, it can still negate the spells effects on the rogue, and it then isn't consumed and can be used again.
Arcane Trickster: Excellent with the right setup Assassin: Thrives in campaigns where you have a shit ton of combat encounters per adventuring day. Also good for multiclassing Soulknife: Hella versatile in any way imaginable Thief: Would trounce the best wizard build in the game if in the right high level campaign with the right tools Inquisitive: Just play a spellcaster or assassin Phantom: Solid damage dealer Mastermind: Just play a spellcaster or assassin Scout: Strong in late game, but just meh otherwise Swashbuckler: THE multiclass option for 3-9 level dips
Skirmisher is best to avoid being overwhelmed... I've used it to prevent myself from taking two or more sets of attacks instead of just one when, say attacked by a pack of wolves, or when ghosts appear behind the party and try to possess me.
I liked original thief more for the flavor, although i usually don't make powerful characters, so it was ok even outside the roleplaying aspect. Then BG3 made me love yet more the thief, as in the game they have 2 bonus actions, and the game gives many things we can do with them. With how high power the game ends up being, because of magical properties of many items, he was a more reliable damage dealer than some of the combat-focus ones in my party. My Astarion was a menace. I confess i hoped for something similar for the new Thief. But i was SUPER happy when i saw what they did. They achieved to make a really good subclass that will become powerful depending on how you approach the game (or, as you said, how the DM makes the campaign), and i think that is awesome. Is less "in a certain lvl, you get this powerful feat, now you are powerful". They are feats that basically say "hey, there is an intention here, and if you want to go in this direction, make it happen in the game!". The incentive to cooperate with friends for that scrolls, or just to engage in a good ol' robbin' season looking for all magic treasure you can't find in the near radius is a very cool dynamic.
Thanks for the video ! About the Assassin though, 5:52 unless I'm reading my PHB wrong, Surprising Strike advantage on attack rolls also only happens on the first round of combat, just like the bonus damage 😢
I think you underestimate the value of the Scout being able to move away from an enemy as a reaction. It saves your bonus action on disengage, and it means you can get far enough away that the enemy has to dash to get to you. With base rogue abilities, you can disengage, run 30ft, and attack (with no way to generate sneak attack), or disengage, run and dash for 60ft, or risk the opportunity attack and get an attack and 60ft, or hide for advantage and get 30ft. The scout gets 45ft, can hide for sneak attack, and attack. The ability to kite is really good if the battle is open enough for it to matter.
The Inquisitive Rogue is really useless in most scenarios. I'm playing one atm but we have not yet reached higher levels and usually tend to play campaigns to max. level 12. For me picking the Inquisitive was a decision because I wanted to lean heavily into the Wisdom stat and we barely had any frontline characters so the only way Sneak Attack would ever be useful would be, when the enemies approach the player characters we actually don't want them to attack. Sneak Attack is such a great and fun part of the Rogues gameplay kit so there was no way I could use the usual ranged/hiding Rogue playstyle. Then I had to choose: What are the best Subclasses for Rogues that can actually stay in the frontline while also providing consistent damage - in other words: what Rogue Subclasses let me use my Sneak Attack with melee weapons consistently. Swashbuckler is the more obvious choice here but it scales extremely well with a high Charisma stat which was supposed to be my dumpstat (we have enough high CHA characters in the party) and so the Inquisitive's Insightful Fighting was actually the only option which would allow me to pull this off. There are also others reasons like the character's background and identity which made me choose this subclass because the character was indeed supposed to be an investigator-type character. To sum it up, although I can basically only use the one level 3 subclass feature while the rest being absolutely useless unless you want to force your gamemaster to make your features useful, I still think that I made the right choice here also from the roleplay perspective. I will multiclass later a bit into Fighter to emphasize my role as the "tank" of the group or something who is just able to take a few more hits so one could question why I picked the Rogue in the first place. I think the aspects that appealed to me the most are the massive skill proficiencies and even expertises while having a good use for your bonus actions also emphasizing the finesse and agility the character is supposed to provide. I took the Observant feat onto that with the Custom Lineage to makeup for the bad subclass features but it also pairs really well with the high Wisdom Modifier and it's a reliable and fun out-of-combat tool which fits the depiction of an "Investigator-type character" just perfectly in my opinion. The passive skills (Perception, Insight, Investigation) are no joke with this one.
Him: Magical Ambush is great! You can hide and Cast.... Me: Yeah! Web with disadvantage on saving throws is amazing! Him: Shatter!! Me: Oh... Yeah... 3d8 at Level 9 in a 10 ft radius... Sure...
21:10 "No, cockroaches don't have souls. If you want to pull this stunt, you're going to have to kill at least a rodent or small bird." That would be my ruling. Actually, I might even give them a Hat of Vermin to facilitate it, maxing them out at three additional uses.
16:00 Fun and interesting that you have wildly different opinions about the 2024 Rogues from some other content creators. I'm more with you, though I'd put Assassin down quite a bit. The other 3 subs are pretty amazing IMO.
As someone who made his first ever character as an Inquisitive Rogue, seeing again how much it sucks kinda makes me sad. Fortunately, the DM for that campaign is open to look for some features to make my PC as strong as the rest of the party. But, to be honest, I like the detective vibe this subclass gives. I know that it will probably stay the same and won't be changed, but I will always continue to hope for a update for this subclass 🥹
Spell thief when the enemy caster uses Silvery Barbs or Counterspell would be diabolical. Especially if its a DM who uses it specifically because the party uses it
Succeeding on your check for Insightful Fighting as an Inquisitive rogue gives you Sneak Attack on every turn for 1 minute. No more wasting your bonus action to hide.
If you think Aecane Trickster is cool, Arcaner Trickster (1lv rogue + Illusion Wizard) will blow your mind: for one, you get to cast Illusion spell without verbal and sometic components, also you may summon beast as Illusion spell!
Thief + illusion wizard should also be quite something especially on a gestalt campaign. Gaining cover to remain hidden thanks to your summons sounds hilarious to me.
@@kfiraltberger552 for the sake of simplicity, i'd say thief (only when it comes to comparing the two), simply because it is pretty underwhealming to play an assassin in both 5e and 2024. At least 2024 lets you use your main feature more reliably but it's still pretty underwhealming. I think that the Scout Rogue is a good starting point since it gives you more ways to interact with Expertise and if you feel like making a mobility build, being able to move around freely with your reaction is also positive
@i.am_berserk Agree with all those points. Assassin just feels like a good way for beginners to both play a well known trope (easier roleplaying) and to bite only slightly more than they could chew in a way that won't overwhelm them but rather throw them straight into how dnd works.
@@DnDShortscan agree! I’m playing Swash for my first DnD character and it has been a blast for simple sneak attack rules. Arcane Trickster and Thief both look really entertaining though.
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How does armor of agathist and wild shape interact
Why did you do your sales pitch in a South England hillbillie accent?
please make the ads louder i think there were a few people in my block that didnt wake up
Everyone forgets about revived rogue:(
I recognize that xenoblade 2 background music
I know there's been a few lengthy tier lists in a row but DON'T PANIC - just imagine it's 29 shorts in a row (you can pretend to scroll on the screen every 60 seconds, it's what I do when watching these back)
I love longer videos. Don't worry about it ❤
Does Arcane Thief let you steal cantrips like Eldritch Blast? Kinda cracked then.
Lol❤
Dude. I'll listen to Treantmonk waffle on about Wizards for an hour. You're good. 😅👍
At 8:04 you said the Assassin rogue does 80d6 on a crit and with death strike. This is not true because the rogue only has 10d6 sneak attack dice as crit double damage dice and death strike doubles the damage. So, in reality the math should be 40d6 since 10d6*2*2=40d6. . Or the better way to write 20d6=total *2
I think Mastermind rogue is one of those things in dnd where it's best used not as a player subclass, but for fleshing out a BBEG or better yet, one of the BBEG's lieutenant. When the party captures and interogates a villain, and the party uses Zone of truth, and operates on the information as 100% ineffable, makes for a great rug pull.
Also will suit players that like that sort of shenanigan themselves - at least for those with DM's that really do their best not to meta game. Get yourself captured on purpose or try to join the BBEG's cult - doubtless risky moves, but when they can't in any easy way prove you false a little gift of the gab, a good faith offering... The only downside would be game pacing for the group as a whole could suffer, but again at the right table with the right DM that isn't a problem at all. And really that is the thing with almost every subclass in the right place for the right people its unique enough to really play into. Which is where the new PHB for me really starts to fall down so much uniqueness has been lost - giving everyone so much of everything and really smoothing out the peaks just lends itself to a more bland experience IMO.
I used it in a multiclass to round of my character and get some use out of bonus action, since I had little to use back then. Probablly not the strongest, but fun to get some extra versatility.
This can be fun, but in general I'd advise you to heavily telegraph this feature to your players somehow beforehand.
Not sure the best way to go about that, but from my experience the whole "your abilities just don't work on this guy for seemingly no reason" isn't actually any fun unless your players had a reasonable chance to have figured that out on their own.
These "gotcha" moments can feel cheap if not set up properly.
The throw away line of “Pull blades out of your brain” gave me such a messed up but fun role play idea. A psychopathic soul knife rogue that makes it seem like they are summoning their blades from their head. They let out a sadistic laugh as they bring their hand to their head and slowly pull out the knife, as if they had previously stabbed themselves in the brain for fun. It’s so messed up but so fun for role play wise.
I was thinking something similar
Changes the subclass from "psychic" to "psychotic". Not necessarily a bad thing, especially for a horror-based campaign.
Arcane Trickster does kind of sputter out on its own, but that's why I'm multiclassing into the Shinobi wizard. Thanks for the multiattack, Ryoko's Guide!
Quick note for Phantom Rogue, the necrotic damage to another creature isn't half of the sneak attack damage but damage equal to half of your sneak attack dice rounded up which is overall more damage than half your sneak attack
Edit: my math is off. Read follow up comments...
At lvl 10 average sneak attack is 30. Half your sneak attack dice would be 5. Half of your average sneak attack damage would average at 15. There is no instance where Half of a rogues sneak attack dice will be more than half of their sneak attack damage.
@@commanderzulu4724 at level 10 your sneak attack is 5d6 which averages 17.5 which you may round to 18. Half of that is 9. Half of your sneak attack dice rounded up is 3d6 which averages 10.5 which you could round up to 11. 11>9 however this only matters on levels where you have an odd number of sneak attack dice and thus half those dice would have to be rounded. At level 20 this doesn't matter as 10d6 averages 35 and 5d6 averages half of that.
@123benyb so I did forget that you get a sneak attack die every other lvl so my math was off. But also it seems that there was a miss understanding during your initial post where you said it is "half the sneak attack dice rounded up" I thought you meant damage equal to number of dice, not you get to roll half of your sneak attack dice rounded up that does necrotic damage.
@@commanderzulu4724 yeah, I'm not as clear when I state my points as WotC is
it feels crazy that true strike is a staple of optimized spellblades now
Spell thief stealing smite and using it when they use true strike is a vibe to me.
... please clarify my interpretation of the new-rules; but isn't Sneak-Attack (2024) now only triggered by a "conventional" Attack-Action once-per-turn? True-Strike being a Spell-Attack-Action should limit Sneak-Attack from ever triggering; correct? This... in-addition to not being able to trigger "Sneak" on any "reaction".
@@RoyHobbs-f4v "Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack roll if you have Advantage on the roll and the attack uses a Finesse or a Ranged weapon. "
True strike makes an attack roll (it's a spell attack but sneak attack doesn't specify, it just says attack roll) and it uses a weapon (a weapon with which you have proficiency and that is worth 1+ CP is listed in the components) which can be finesse or ranged.
As for the reaction part I wasn't able to quickly find the exception you were referring to and based on the text of Sneak attack I believe you may apply sneak attack damage to a reaction attack provided you meet the prerequisites.
Furthermore, True strike uses an action rather than a reaction so a ruling that excludes reaction attacks wouldn't apply.
I actually dislike it requiring to use your spell casting modifier. The heavy focus on mental stat and spell casting in DnD is a bit excessive. I honestly rule it should be optional
@@thesquishogods8015 There's a lot of this. It's also part of 1 of the reason that ranger is the new equivalent of the 2014 monk, lagging behind everyone else and requiring DM buy in to be "average/usable/useful".
One thing you forgot about Inquisitive is that the Sneak Attack use only 1 bonus action total and lasts for a minute... all other rouges have to reuse the bonus every turn to use hide or somthing to get the sneak attack active. This allows the inquisitive rogue to use their bonus for other things.
THIS
Nothing better than standing in the back and getting sneak attack every turn as an archer. BA dash or hide to avoid the conflict, constantly shuffling around and always striking true. You can pop in, disengage, and pop back all the while keeping your sneak attack on the target regardless of your allies placement. I would think the rogue would usually be the first to act and in a system where combat is usually over after 3-5 turns, not getting Sneak on the first round is debilitating to a rogue.
@@CaptCKernel I'm playing an Eladrin Inquisitive Rogue, and being able to bamf around to avoid other enemies with Fey Step and still hit the BBEG with sneak attack is amazing - being able to just get 60 feet away from an enemy and still hit with sneak attack is very juicy
Thank you for acknowledging the most powerful use of the alchemy jug!
I have a Scout rogue in my game and its "back up when approached" ability is slept on.
My player has sharpshooter, and so he can do massive damage from very far away, and ignore cover.
The setup is very simple, stand far enough away from the enemies so that they would have to dash to ever get close to you (60-120 ft generally). Because they dashed they had no chance to attack, and the rogue immediately backs up 15 ft as a reaction (no opportunity attacks). On the rogues turn he can back up to 45 ft, and even has his bonus action free to dash or hide. This results in a cost free repeat of the last round, the monster has to dash to get close, and doing so will waste its entire turn.
Even ranged attacks from the monsters are hard to use because the ranger can reliably use BA dash to stay out of the short range of most weapons, causing them to attack at disadvantage.
That being said, while not necessary I would recommend splitting uncanny dodge and The Scouts reactions so their not interfering with each other. Pretty stupid that as written the rogue has 2 features that are so directly incompatible like that.
The assassin level 13 feature is even better than you described, because they take the 2d6 every time they fail a save against that poison, which they do at the end of each of their turns for the next minute.
That boosts the base (best case scenario, your numbers may be lower) 3.3 DPR by ~1.7 DPR, to a grand total of 5. If they survive to round 2. And if they're not immune. It's still cool! But... not exactly stellar. Of course, paired with a level 10+ Great Old One warlock using Hex to give disadvantage on Con saves, this could be up to ~9 DPR. But more importantly, it would help keep them Poisoned. Almost no matter what you do to it, it's not a crazy amount of damage. Rogues just don't hit super hard. But the extra control aspect is actually quite nice! Still, I can't imagine ever wanting to take Assassin over Thief. To me, just getting a little extra damage here and there is not worth giving up a truly unique feature with a far higher ceiling.
Will, I think you missed one massive part about Spell Thief on the Arcane Trickster - the feature is only consumed if you STEAL a spell. That means that you can pretty much spam Spell Thief every turn as long as the spell that you counter is 5th level or higher. And considering you'd be facing liches and ancient dragons and shie, a lot of DMs are gonna wanna use a lot of big spells for interesting combats. And those big spell are gonna be counter-able by the Spell Thief feature. Only once you've countered a spell of 4th level or lower does the feature actually require a long rest to recharge. This makes Spell Thief pretty insane defensively against casters in tough situations.
I feel that you omitted the best roleplay feature of the psi blade: the fact that your psi weapon attacks don't leave marks. It is literally the Ninja Glass Knife from actual history, cranked up to 11. I built a character around just this bit. It is amazing and I hope I get to play it someday.
Good thing to know that I think you over looked with inquisitive rogue
1: Bonus action search action makes you the best anti-rogue because to find a stealthed creature you need to take the search action which wastes your main action normally.
2: Advantage on a check, also means if it has a passive effect, that passive effect is increased by +5, meaning with observant and Expertise they would have passive investigation and perception of like
+4/5 mod
+5 advantage
+12 Expertise
+5 Observant
So I think their passive perception which is always active would be 37
I brought an Inquisitive Rogue to level 20 (or rather 19 and one level of Knowlegde cleric). One of most played and least rebuilt characters. I failed the contest a total of five times in all the time I played him. I got him an Ioun Stone of Mastery so unless a creature is able to roll Deception over 29, it gets super hit super hard super fast.
@@philippegauvin-vallee9371 I dont think anything in the actual 5e MM or any 5e official monster stat block can roll over a 37 deception. xD
I really appreciated how you included the old subclasses and didn't stopped at only the 2024 PHB new 4.
It shows how the old ones interact with the new 2024 base rouge class and with other new subclasses too
The new player handbook goes out of its way to say that it's 5th edition and that all older content that hasn't been updated is still backwards compatible.
This was perfectly timed, I was curious about what all of the Roguish Archetypes were. Thanks, DnD shorts!
Headphone warning. The promotion starting at: 4:33 is way louder than the rest of the video.
From what movie/TV series is the clip at 14:03 taken from?
@@supermaraudergirl9770 Thanks. I will check it out.
Rogues are top tier class. If you ignore combat.
And Spells. And Bards
Just sit at tawern in black cloak all mysterious. Of course with warlock or sorcerer by your side, but who invited those?
Columbo and Psych clips? Excellent!
Good assessment of the Thief.
Dungeon Dudes botched this one and barely noticed how powerful it was.
To be fair, it kinda suck if the dm rarely give you Magic items so it's way too campaign dependant
Yeah I agree also, thief with scrolls is nuts.
But I think this channel over scored assassin, honestly I think assassin is dogshit and dungeon dudes nailed that one.
@@djago9415 One level of Wizard fixes it. Make your own scrolls.
@@HuNtOziO agree
@@HuNtOziO The chancel was incorrect by their damage by a lot at level 20 it's only supposed to be 20d6*2 for damage. However, saying the 2024 assassin is worse the 2014 assassin is just objectively wrong. imo there are subclass worse than assassin rogue.
I have a mastermind rogue lore bard multi class with the observant feat and he slaps
A level 20 bugbear assassin with booming blade could do a guaranteed crit for 88d6+12d8+40+16d8 if they move
DAMN
Where did your numbers come from? For example the 88d6. Since booming blade is a d8. Rogues only have 10d6 + their weapon if it is a d6. So, with a crit that is 20d6 then with Death strike level 17 if they fail the save for that feature that would only be 40d6. Booming blade would be 12d8+ if they move 4d8. You only double damage dice so with a level 20 assassin you only get a 20+dex mod I assume it is 20 making it a plus 5. The reason for this is their movement is not part of the initial damage roll. So, in conclusion Assassin with booming blade will do 40d6+12d8+50+4d6 if they move. Or more accurately ( 20d6+12d8+25)*2 +4d8 if they move and everything goes right with the attack.
I don't understand how you get 80D6 from sneak attack. Isn't it 10D6 sneak attack *2 bc of crit *2 bc of assassin ? What do I forget ?
@@crosmostempest3669 You are correct. Since again you can only multiply by 3 as an assassin rogue. nothing multiplies by 3 other than decimal equals 80d6 dice 88/4=22d6 before you multiply. you will get 48d6+12d8+50+4d8 if they move. Granted we still need to know the weapon they use. So that 12d6 more I don't understand where it comes form.
Spell scroll of 9th level conjure minor elementals… stack all that and whatever you target would bet atomized
@@omegadragonRandom please note the Assassin rogue can't use scrolls. You are going thief or arcane trickster for that.
27:45 Three VERY important things about how INSANELY impressive Panache charm is.
1) Its an ability, not a spell. It cannot be detected during its casting, duration, and ending. It requires no spell slots. You spam the ability with zero consequences. Compare this Charm Person, in which the target realizes its been charmed after 1 minute and will likely get very pissed at you.
2) It can target any creature, there is no type limit. If you speak the same language you can charm it. Get a magic item which allows you to temporarily speak an additional language and you can out-seduce the Bard. Speak Draconic and seduce Red Dragon. Speak Infernal and seduce an Erinyes. The sky is the limit. Just avoid Fey creatures like Elves since they are immune.
3) You will rarely ever fail. At level 11 your Swashbuckler Rogue with Expertise in Persuasion and 16 CHA cannot roll lower than a 21 (and can roll as high as 31). Few players or characters are going to roll a high Insight (WIS) check against you. Just be careful with Clerics and Druids.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to use Panache to convince this shopkeeper that I should receive that magic item for free. Just think of the potent advertising of me wearing it; its priceless.
This was both informative and sussinct recap of the most key points of the subclasses. The tier rating is just a bonus. I forwarded this video to all the rogues in my campaign just to remind them of the awesome capabilities each of them possess. I wish you continue to do this for all the classes, please!
Yeah, I totally didn't see that Thief thing until you pointed it out!
I do like most of the Rogue sub-classes with Phantom and Soul Knife being my favorite. Its really a shame that Mastermind and Inquisitive are so lackluster because I could see some really interesting things done with them, particularly if they had Cunning Strike options made for them. I could see Mastermind having an option where they could allow another creature to either take a special reaction using Cunning Strike to make an attack or even allow the creature they're helping taking their turn immediately after the Rogue. For Inquisitive I could see a Cunning Strike that gives a quick scan effect like you could get a quick rundown of weaknesses or resistances or maybe even an option to change out damage types but that might be better for a more 'magical' sub-class. I do think that both have a lot of different ways where they could be expanded on.
Cunning Strike: _Analysis_ would actually go hard for the Mastermind. I'm about it.
The bois that rock that 1d4 knife with style
im actually enjoying the longer videos!
You were much kinder to the thief than the Dungeon Dudes.
I think it's highly dependent on the type of campaign you're in.
Lots of cool and interesting magic items and spell scrolls? It's a great subclass.
Few magic items and spell scrolls, and no cool items that you can use with your bonus action? You're just a slightly more mobile and sneaky regular rogue until level 17.
Hopefully the guidance in the new DMG will mean the typical experience is more like the former than the latter.
Maybe because they're stingy with Magic Items? Jk... Hahah
The thief is super dependent on the campaign and the DM, dungeon dudes like to keep their videos objective and objectively, there is no way to know how good the thief will be in any given campaign. Half of the power this video ascribes to the thief was dependent on them having specific magic items. I honestly think we won't know how strong this is until we get the new DMG with their recommendations for magic items for a party.
Swashbuckler Rogue + any Warlock (Hexblade is the obvious choice, but Archfey is good too) is NUTS. One application of Panache then using Booming Blade with a vex mastery rapier is insane. That creature will not want to attack anyone but you for a full minute, you have advantage from vex and thus you have sneak attack, and any time it moves closer it eats additional damage from Booming Blade. Ideally you have Agonizing Blast on Booming Blade too, to add your Charisma modifier to both damage rolls of that cantrip.
So I just realized something great about Psychic Veil: the invisibility only ends if you damage a creature or force them to make a saving throw, but not if you make an attack. So you could just sneak into a place and damage all the gear and depending on the DM’s discretion even trigger traps against your enemies there.
This video made me subscribe, I love seeing the full list of subclasses and with a greatly explained pros and cons of the class. hope to see more like this. please bard next
Shorts... Bro... Read Arcane Trickster again.
You can just Nope! a spell, sure. *If you don't absorb the spell, you can NOPE AGAIN! next turn.*
Absolute S Tier.
27:31 AHHH HEXBUCKLER MENTUONED!!! One of my first characters was a hexbuckler, love that multiclass man
The Swashbuckler feature, "Panache" is one of the most powerful features game wide. Mass Charm without concentration? Yes, please!! No magic involved and the charmed condition doesn't end if you decide to start carving on your victim. If you're a duel class caster then Enthrall and Tongues are perfect fit.
On the arcane trickster- I propose Advanced Mage Hand (feat or magic item)
You can cast spells with a range of touch through it, you can take the help action with your reaction (you can't do it for yourself, but you can for others).
it doesn't cost your bonus action to move it. it just does the thing and follows along with you and your intent within range.
at half the range, with an Action, the weight it can lift is half what you can lift, and you Can make attacks with it (no sneak attack bonus. you can drop a boiling pot on someone's head though). You also take psychic damage equivalent of any AOE or other reasonable source if it gets hit while using this ability.
So basically just giving it some of the Familliar functionality that it makes little sense that it doesn't have, but balanced to not be too easily abused.
I'm usually a DM but I got the chance to be a player character during a one shot and made a very gimicky Harengon Swashbuckler Rogue. His whole build was just for insane initiative. The 1 shot was level 12 so I had reliable talent. Harengon get to add proficiency bonus to initiative which means reliable talent works on it. That means I'm starting at 10 initiative. I had 20 Dex and 20 Cha and 4 proficiency bonus from being level 12. I decided to pick the Alert feat for the extra +5 to initiative. That brought my final total to a minimum roll of 10 and a bonus of +19. Considering a natural 1 initiative roll got me a 29 initiative, it's safe to say no one went before me.
Awesome Video, can't imagine how long it must take
The scout feature can be secretly good for kiting. You bonus action dash back from combat and fire your sneak attack bow. They have to dash as an action to catch up. You do your scout reaction. Now you can use your bonus action for something other than disengage. So you can dash or hide (or steady aim if you think one more sneak attack will finish them)
I'm in a waterdeep campaign as a rogue now and planning on going 11 swashbuckler Rogue for reliable Talent, 6 psi warrior fighter for extra attack, action Surge, the 6th-level feat, and the extra psi warrior abilities, and 3 gloom stalker Ranger for the first turn extra attack and damage, darkvision, invisibility in darkness and a few support spells.
So, at level 20, with all the above that's 6 attacks on the first turn using action Surge, with sneak Attack, a extra d8 of psychic damage each hit, a extra d8 with the gloom stalker's dread ambusher feature, and a plus 15 to initiative.
Phantom is mt favorite Rogue subclass. Thanks for the fair ranking
Man now the Thief is really interesting.
I'm so waiting for your video on warlocks btw!
4:11 Worth noting, there is a niche use of this to grab healing for your Rogue before the big battle. Just have your Cleric buddy cast Healing Word or Cure Wounds on you, have them choose to fail the check, and now you have access to healing in case things get too hairy. As long as your Cleric has at least 2 healing spells, this basically gives your team an extra healer, which can help in a worst case scenario.
The arcane trickster is an amazing dip for bladesinger wizards. Those three levels net you 2 extra damage dice, better hp dice, and the ability to be a solid part-time front-liner without sacrificing too much in spellcasting. Thanks to the arcane trickster stacking with wizard, you get a single level of lost spellcasting back, which is huge.
for anyone wondering, the BA attack from soul knife does add your ability modifier for the damage.
Something interesting about the inquisitive rogues insightful fighting, it doesn’t contain a lot of the limitations that other sneak attack generators do, so you could technically use it to sneak attack multiple times per turn.
i love your ad breaks they are some the more creative ones, eating my dinner and i nearly choke when i hear' yar me heartys are ye tired of getting seamen on your poopdeck' god dammit that was out of bloody know where.....never change dude
17:11 You don't need to do it every turn. As long as your target lives and you don't target another one with the feature, you retain the benefit for 1 minute and the target can't do anything about it. It doesn't end after the attack. And if you lose the contest, you can try again the next turn.
I'll forever be a fan of soul Knife, powerful, flavorful, fun.
One thing that makes Inquisitive good IMO is the BA to do a perception or investigation check.
While there are no mechanics for that in combat RAW (at least in 5e), Ive had DMs grant advantage on the attack for sussing out a weak point. I've had instances out of combat where a perception check is requested and my rogue gets a second chance to roll because of this feature. With the way Invisibility is written, its a low level ability that can completely nerf an encounter as you can track the enemy while they cannot be seen. With the complexities of BBEG fights, where the objective could be kill the enemy OR stop the enemy (like they are trying to conduct a ritual, etc) it allows the rogue to showcase all of their abilities to zip around the battlefield and interact with the things that would normally take 2-3 turns to figure out.
I understand the list is based off standardization, but if you have a crafty DM the Inquisitive Rogue is my favorite class/subclass to both be consistently and constantly valuable to the party as well as allow the DM to better showcase the storyline through character actions.
Also, are you referencing Swashbuckler for "better options to set up sneak attack"? I would disagree because the chances that the rogue is designed for 1v1 combat is not very high. One full turn from a Death Knight could down a level 20 rogue with fairly average damage rolls, and as the game progresses even having a 20 in Dex means an AC below 20 for the class. Not a lot of room to boost HP within the class as well.
As for Steady Eye, its basically allowing you to always roll with advantage outside of combat. If you are in combat, BA dash and now you can move your "full" movement to gain the benefit. Again, not the bestest of the bestest but that is something you can use almost every session whereas there are dozens of subclass features throughout rogue that are more niche or could possibly not even be viable throughout an entire campaign.
TLDR - Inquisitive is fairly awesome, but please dont fight me about it...fight the Paladin about it, because Lemmy agrees. Isnt that right Lemmy? (he just shakes his head, calls me blasphemous and walks away....)
Great vid and Awesome shirt!
The incredible part of phantom subclass is that it is not specified that you can only use wails of the grave once per sneak attack, so if you spend all your wails of the grave uses and destroy your soul trinkets to gain more use, you'll deal 10d6 physical + 12*5d6 in one attack, what, combined with the auto crit of level 20 gives a total of 140d6 of additional damage (plus 120d6 dealt to one to 12 other ennemies)
when you were talking about the soul knife i pictured a rogue with an insane face as he pulls an energy dagger out of his head
If you have the skulker feat on your rogue the supreme sneak from thief makes it possible for you to hide once at the start of initiative and not need to hide again as long as you can get behind the cover since neither hits not misses will reveal your location
What I would love to see with this video, or next, is how you would change up the old subclasses so they would look better in the 2024 rule set. Take the concepts and change the mechanics behind it to better fit. I feel like doing that would take each subclass up 1 or 2 tiers
I am playing an Inquisitive Rouge Goblin Pirate in a game and I will say I am having loads of fun (DnD is almost always fun) and love my character. But everyone basically collectively agreed I chose a very weak subclass compared to the rest of the party. Even Insightful Fighting, their most interesting ability, is often outclassed by the now default Steady Aim.
So my DM and a fellow player who also DMs games worked together to make me a Rework of Inquisitive that keeps all the original abilities but buffs and builds off them to actually be useful!!!
To give some shortened examples:
- Eye for Detail now also gives you one additional Expertise between perception, investigation, and insight and ALSO makes it that I can use Wisdom in place of Intelligence for Investigation checks (as to avoid making Inquisitive even more of a MAD subclass),
- Ear for Deceit was buffed from 8 to 9 (so with the presumed Expertise and a +3 you could be hitting 18 which passes more DCs) AND when I reach level 10 (as to not be completely overshadowed by Reliable talent) just Always Works, just always knowing if someone is Lying (or Disguised!) via non-magical means.
- Speaking of which, they made Insightful fighting better, it only lasts 3 rounds instead of a full minute, but during that time the targeted creature has a -2 to hit me (because studying someones moves should reasonably make you better at avoiding them) AND tacks an extra 1d6 sneak attack die against that target (which, while unintentional, would likely mesh with the 2024 Rogue's cunning strikes [plus at level 10 it goes up to 2d6])
- Steady Eye now benefiting Perception, investigation, AND Insight so that it meshes with insightful Fighting and makes for a more enticing option versus Steady Aim. AS WELL as making it so I instantly know an invisible creature is within 30 ft (though not where they are) and do not suffer disadvantage when attacking them (which MIGHT be overpowered given how hiding works in 2024 now since that would technically be an invisible creature).
- Unerring eye (which for the record is so dumb: Paladins can tell you every single zombie in a 60 foot radius with a sneeze at like level 2 while the Inq rogue at level 13 firstly has to ASSUME THERE IS AN ILLUSION OR OTHER THING to even think to USE THIS and even THEN it just CONFIRMS or DENIES it doesn't give you any actual info despite having LIMITED USES so if anyone in your party is a shapechanger or using ANYTHING illusory this ability will just ALWAYS PING) just always works.
- And of course the subclass capstone: instead of just tacking on 3d6 that has been moved to Insightful fighting inherently (and spread out over the levels). Now, so long as I get insightful fighting on a creature my next attack is a critical against them. I can only do this to any given creature once a day, but any number of creatures. Which I think is a MUCH cooler ability.
All in all I loved what they did with it, keeping the original flavor but really exemplifying them as someone who always just keenly aware of whats going on around them and using their understanding of peoples actions and intents to fight against them. I also just really love the added pseudoprogression of the abilities. Going from: reliably tell people are lying -> to knowing if someone is hidden nearby -> to always being able to see through non-magic lies and disguises -> to always knowing if anything nearby is trying to trick you or out of place. It just makes for a much more useful utility as the ever-observant role while also being able to wallop out damage in combat, it doesn't sacrifice utility for power or vice versa which I really appreciate and at the same time doesn't feel broken against some of the other subclasses out there (looking at all the casters and the 2024 ones).
I'm sad the Inquisitive was ranked so low, it's one of if not my favorite, but I recognize that's also because I want to multiclass it with Fighter or Ranger, just enough for Extra Attack. The feat crossbow expert becomes almost necessity so you can dual wield, a hand crossbow being the off hand to fire at the target of Insightful Fighting, while the main hand is for stabbing a flanked melee enemy. It does come with set up time, but an easily set amount, and like the Swashbuckler it strives for more attempts to get Sneak Attack off.
Good content, keep it up.
The new Arcane Trickster's Spell Thief features *does* work on higher level spells. The limitation you quoted is only for the clause allowing you to cast the spell yourself. You can still use the feature to disable high-level spells.
Def agree with your appraisal of the new Thief. It looks so much fun now (esp when paired with High Elf)! Way better than its previous incarnation. I will say, though, I'm surprised you made no mention of the fact that Fast Hands allows Thief Rogues to steal things off of enemy combatants without substantially impacting their own action economy.
This is the first tierlist including the 2024 subclasses I 100% agree with!
Mastermind Misdirection feature requires that a creature grants you cover.
All medium creatures can provide all other medium creatures cover, no need for small race limitations.
requires almost no set up beyond a creature being between you and the attacker.
you can even choose for the attack to target an ally who has higher AC or resistance.
I liked this video for the sole reason that you put Pysch in the video
Sweet! Favourite class! (yeah, I'm a little basic :) )
It's honestly mine too
So, every Thief wants an Artificer to be their sugar daddy in a campaign that uses the rules from Helena's Guide to Monster Hunting or something like it. Got it. 😁👍
@@owenveighey1765 just make Scrolls yourself by taking 1 level dip in wizard. 50g a pop for True Strike cantrip Scrolls. Always sneak attack twice a round of combat. Boom. Broken.
Or just magic initiate and save your gp
@clarkkent163000 magic initiate doesn't give you access to the spell list. Just a select few spells. You can only craft spells of which you have in your spell list and prepared that day.
@@chrisg8989 You don't need to craft true strike cantrip scrolls if you just take magic initiate.
@clarkkent163000 you need to craft true strike Scrolls if you want to sneak attack twice in one Round.
Bonus action cast true strike scroll.
Hold action to cast true strike when your turn ends.
Arcane trickster can do double sneak attack per round when it gets Haste. Thief can do that with BA scrolls of True strike/booming blade.
13:38 this subclass with tortle is broken because he can just enter 3/4s cover w a bonus action by hiding in there shell technically
This is one of those times when a DM just has to say, "I realize that's technicaly RAW, but I'm not allowing that. But have an inspiration, because that's funny."
I like the barbarian feature primal knowledge. You can use strength for certain ability checks while raging, and stealth is one option. So a berserker barbarian, rogue
Been playing a Thief with the new rules and DM gave me a wand of fireballs. Double fireballs each turn is so much fun and kindda busted
What kind of rogue are you,
What types of things do you do,
The profession you persue
Something old or something new...
My first time playing DND I was Soulknife (level 4-9) it was a blast
It’s funny that SINK has come out now… now I’ve been working on a swashbuckler rouge that has a tattoo of a sexy beholder on his back… I’ve even started on the tattoo design
While the new Thief is amazing with Magic Items, Fast Hands pairs really well will other items too! If you pick up the new version of the Healer feat (which as an origin feat you can get at level 1) and a few Healer's Kits along with weapon mastery for daggers, you're getting two attacks plus healing in the same turn without ever having to multiclass. The healing doesn't scale amazingly as you level up, but given that it works with hit dice and uses of an item that is fairly cheap (5 gold for a 10-use kit), it's decent. If nothing else, it's 1d8+PB of healing to yourself, which could help Rogue be less of a glass cannon. (Also from what I've read, there's nothing that says you can't use the Utilize action twice per turn)
Fun fact, if spell thief doesn't steal the spell, it can still negate the spells effects on the rogue, and it then isn't consumed and can be used again.
Arcane Trickster: Excellent with the right setup
Assassin: Thrives in campaigns where you have a shit ton of combat encounters per adventuring day. Also good for multiclassing
Soulknife: Hella versatile in any way imaginable
Thief: Would trounce the best wizard build in the game if in the right high level campaign with the right tools
Inquisitive: Just play a spellcaster or assassin
Phantom: Solid damage dealer
Mastermind: Just play a spellcaster or assassin
Scout: Strong in late game, but just meh otherwise
Swashbuckler: THE multiclass option for 3-9 level dips
Damn the Thief sounds like a perfect offensive Artificer subclass
Skirmisher is best to avoid being overwhelmed... I've used it to prevent myself from taking two or more sets of attacks instead of just one when, say attacked by a pack of wolves, or when ghosts appear behind the party and try to possess me.
I liked original thief more for the flavor, although i usually don't make powerful characters, so it was ok even outside the roleplaying aspect.
Then BG3 made me love yet more the thief, as in the game they have 2 bonus actions, and the game gives many things we can do with them. With how high power the game ends up being, because of magical properties of many items, he was a more reliable damage dealer than some of the combat-focus ones in my party. My Astarion was a menace.
I confess i hoped for something similar for the new Thief. But i was SUPER happy when i saw what they did. They achieved to make a really good subclass that will become powerful depending on how you approach the game (or, as you said, how the DM makes the campaign), and i think that is awesome. Is less "in a certain lvl, you get this powerful feat, now you are powerful". They are feats that basically say "hey, there is an intention here, and if you want to go in this direction, make it happen in the game!". The incentive to cooperate with friends for that scrolls, or just to engage in a good ol' robbin' season looking for all magic treasure you can't find in the near radius is a very cool dynamic.
Their sounds pretty cool, although soul knife still might need the best. Thanks for the video
I'm doing a swashbuckler rogue with a greatsword rn
So the Mihawk comparison is absolutely on brand XD
Soulknife is definitely my all-time favorite rogue archetype
I'm loving all the Bleach clips! I see you're also a man of culture.
The amount of cool b-rolling Anime is awesome, I love the edits!
Thanks for the video ! About the Assassin though, 5:52 unless I'm reading my PHB wrong, Surprising Strike advantage on attack rolls also only happens on the first round of combat, just like the bonus damage 😢
Looking pretty great in the pirate shirt bro
I think you underestimate the value of the Scout being able to move away from an enemy as a reaction. It saves your bonus action on disengage, and it means you can get far enough away that the enemy has to dash to get to you. With base rogue abilities, you can disengage, run 30ft, and attack (with no way to generate sneak attack), or disengage, run and dash for 60ft, or risk the opportunity attack and get an attack and 60ft, or hide for advantage and get 30ft. The scout gets 45ft, can hide for sneak attack, and attack. The ability to kite is really good if the battle is open enough for it to matter.
I've recently made a swashbuckler rogue/ collage of swords bard multiclass
I can just imagine soul knife plus power word pain
The Inquisitive Rogue is really useless in most scenarios. I'm playing one atm but we have not yet reached higher levels and usually tend to play campaigns to max. level 12.
For me picking the Inquisitive was a decision because I wanted to lean heavily into the Wisdom stat and we barely had any frontline characters so the only way Sneak Attack would ever be useful would be, when the enemies approach the player characters we actually don't want them to attack. Sneak Attack is such a great and fun part of the Rogues gameplay kit so there was no way I could use the usual ranged/hiding Rogue playstyle. Then I had to choose: What are the best Subclasses for Rogues that can actually stay in the frontline while also providing consistent damage - in other words: what Rogue Subclasses let me use my Sneak Attack with melee weapons consistently. Swashbuckler is the more obvious choice here but it scales extremely well with a high Charisma stat which was supposed to be my dumpstat (we have enough high CHA characters in the party) and so the Inquisitive's Insightful Fighting was actually the only option which would allow me to pull this off. There are also others reasons like the character's background and identity which made me choose this subclass because the character was indeed supposed to be an investigator-type character.
To sum it up, although I can basically only use the one level 3 subclass feature while the rest being absolutely useless unless you want to force your gamemaster to make your features useful, I still think that I made the right choice here also from the roleplay perspective. I will multiclass later a bit into Fighter to emphasize my role as the "tank" of the group or something who is just able to take a few more hits so one could question why I picked the Rogue in the first place. I think the aspects that appealed to me the most are the massive skill proficiencies and even expertises while having a good use for your bonus actions also emphasizing the finesse and agility the character is supposed to provide. I took the Observant feat onto that with the Custom Lineage to makeup for the bad subclass features but it also pairs really well with the high Wisdom Modifier and it's a reliable and fun out-of-combat tool which fits the depiction of an "Investigator-type character" just perfectly in my opinion. The passive skills (Perception, Insight, Investigation) are no joke with this one.
Him: Magical Ambush is great! You can hide and Cast....
Me: Yeah! Web with disadvantage on saving throws is amazing!
Him: Shatter!!
Me: Oh... Yeah... 3d8 at Level 9 in a 10 ft radius... Sure...
Another benefit of True Strike is that it works with ranged weapons ;)
21:10 "No, cockroaches don't have souls. If you want to pull this stunt, you're going to have to kill at least a rodent or small bird." That would be my ruling.
Actually, I might even give them a Hat of Vermin to facilitate it, maxing them out at three additional uses.
pray/suck up to your DM for a Bracer of Flying Daggers, take 3 levels in Thief, 4 attacks per turn.
16:00 Fun and interesting that you have wildly different opinions about the 2024 Rogues from some other content creators.
I'm more with you, though I'd put Assassin down quite a bit. The other 3 subs are pretty amazing IMO.
As someone who made his first ever character as an Inquisitive Rogue, seeing again how much it sucks kinda makes me sad. Fortunately, the DM for that campaign is open to look for some features to make my PC as strong as the rest of the party.
But, to be honest, I like the detective vibe this subclass gives. I know that it will probably stay the same and won't be changed, but I will always continue to hope for a update for this subclass 🥹
Did you make that character a Pallid Elf so they'd have those buffs in addition to the Inquisitive Rogue stuff?
@Kenneth2413 no, he's Tiefling of all things. He's the less optimized thing ever created 💀
Spell thief when the enemy caster uses Silvery Barbs or Counterspell would be diabolical. Especially if its a DM who uses it specifically because the party uses it
Magic items pretty much don't exist in any campaign I've been in, so I can't imagine what playing as a Thief must be like.
Succeeding on your check for Insightful Fighting as an Inquisitive rogue gives you Sneak Attack on every turn for 1 minute. No more wasting your bonus action to hide.
Arcane trickster could steal an opponents counterspell, very niche but useful
"Sneak Attack".. every time I think of Appa from Kim's Convenience.
If you think Aecane Trickster is cool, Arcaner Trickster (1lv rogue + Illusion Wizard) will blow your mind: for one, you get to cast Illusion spell without verbal and sometic components, also you may summon beast as Illusion spell!
Thief + illusion wizard should also be quite something especially on a gestalt campaign. Gaining cover to remain hidden thanks to your summons sounds hilarious to me.
What kind of rogue is best for beginners?
Swashbuckler I'd say is a great combination of simplicity, fun, and still very good!
@@DnDShorts BUT if they are looking for a roguey feeling character, I'd argue either thief or assassin are better
@@kfiraltberger552 for the sake of simplicity, i'd say thief (only when it comes to comparing the two), simply because it is pretty underwhealming to play an assassin in both 5e and 2024. At least 2024 lets you use your main feature more reliably but it's still pretty underwhealming.
I think that the Scout Rogue is a good starting point since it gives you more ways to interact with Expertise and if you feel like making a mobility build, being able to move around freely with your reaction is also positive
@i.am_berserk Agree with all those points. Assassin just feels like a good way for beginners to both play a well known trope (easier roleplaying) and to bite only slightly more than they could chew in a way that won't overwhelm them but rather throw them straight into how dnd works.
@@DnDShortscan agree! I’m playing Swash for my first DnD character and it has been a blast for simple sneak attack rules.
Arcane Trickster and Thief both look really entertaining though.