🔴Graham - not usually a commenter - have followed you since your kitchen floor. please shorten your video's they are getting too long !! make your point and end it - we dont have 40 minutes of our lives to listen to what can be put across in 10. Not sure I agree with you though - the hobby is being destroyed by ebay sellers and online auctions that are now in it for a "money making excercise" rather than to offer the goods at a reasonable price and what is affordable to younger generation. In 10 years the hobby will become self destructive by greed - there will be no one prepared to pay the prices . Fortunately like you It dosnt bother me- being the owner of as much stock (collected for over 50 years) as I can / want to run on my layouts.
Hi and thank you for your comment. I fully understand that not everyone will agree with me and my thoughts - you included but I think we need to get one thing straight, I will not be dictated to on matters like how long my videos should or shouldn’t be, I produce videos for many reasons and some obviously take longer than others because of what I want to show or say and I will not be told what should be in that content or how long each one should take. Every single video on UA-cam shows the length of the video and so it’s up to the viewer to watch or not - your choice. Fortunately I have the time and patience to watch a 2 hour long video should it be of interest, if not then I skip it and go onto another video. We are obviously not on the the same wavelength as regards the subject of this video which is fine, we are all entitled to our own individual thoughts on this matter and I have no problem with that and like you, I can agree or disagree as the case maybe. So to keep things short which is what you are after then I suggest that if you are a subscriber to my channel that you unsubscribe, then we will both be happy. Cheers. Graham
What is your problem. I think there must be some sort of control on your device where you could end the vlog. Graham is so well thought of in our hobby maybe it's a bit of jealousy on your part that you're not. Graham keep doing your tutorials and expressing your options as long as you can. Most of us are on the same page as you anyway.
The voice of reason. Well said Graham. Hattons closing and Warley being stopped isn't the end of the world, everything evolves, and nothing lasts forever. The hobby is alive and well.
I couldn’t agree more. The hobby is not dying!!! Its changing. 00 being the main market, has also changed, things are looking up. The model railway industry is valued at 4 Billion pounds. Things are not all doom and gloom! Now, I’m 27. I’ve always been an odd lad in that I’ve not left the hobby. I’m part of a model railway club, I also model in 7mm. I’ve lost interest in 00, as I found the skills involved in 7mm interest me far more. Kits are where I go, which means I’m involved with the cottage industries. I’m not buying models from the likes of Hattons, Rails etc. But things are changing for me too, I’m not collecting loads of things etc. As I’m cherry picking a ‘loco build’ then I’m spending time preparing for it. Price has been a significant factor for me, but in the long term 7mm has been cheaper than 00. But I have had to get equipment to support the kit building that I do. I’m tempted to do a video on my thoughts on this. But I think I’ve done that now. 🙂 Cheers Tom
Thank you, I wouldn’t have said I have a high profile though! 😂. But pleased that you found this of interest and kind of goes along with you way of thinking too. 👍🏻. Cheers. …………Graham
Well said Graham. The voice of sense and reason. I started, thanks to my late brother, in 1945 with my Hornby clockwork on the lawn in Manchester. In 1948 I was inspired,by a picture of David St John Thomas in his Farther’s Train Room in Newton Abbott, to one day have a railway room of my own. (David you will recall as one half of David and Charles the publishers). I was also inspired by Rev. Edward Beal and his scratch built ‘West Midland’ and his descriptions of home made solenoid point motors for me to copy, aged 12! Fast forward to the present day where I do have that room and happily run my analogue trains of various vintages; some pocket money memories, some early Triang and Hornby Dublo plus more modern say Hornby and Haljan smooth runners etc, etc. All in all a wonderful hobby that has been and will continue to be, a source of pleasure, comfort and creative satisfaction. Over the years I’ve witnessed many upheavals, changes and ever improving standards. I treasure it all and totally support your view that our hobby is far from being in decline. Hope you eye op. goes very well and you can pick up your tools and apply your great skills again and video them for our mutual benefit. Best Wishes, Tony (aka T🚂).
Thanks Graham- you’ve cheered me up. Your words are wise. I also saw some of those videos which were rather doom and gloom. Some comments suggested we needed more technology to attract the young, or special interest groups within the hobby to attract more women. One commentator even complained there were too many old men in the hobby! As if older men were somehow to blame! Let’s keep political correctness out of our hobby and try to encourage people of any age or background to take it up and enjoy it.
Many thanks Barry and I’m glad I managed to cheer you up, I think we all need that at the moment don’t we? I think what I said needed to be said after watching some of the videos which had so much negativity about our hobby and the way it seems to be going - according to them! 👍🏻. Cheers. ………..Graham
Hi Graham, I couldn't agree any more. Our hobby is thriving, and whilst a few shops may close and shows change, there are thousands upon thousands of people so excited to see our models trundling around our tiny little worlds. Im thinking of people like yourself, many many youtubers, along with Pete Waterman and the amazing response to his layouts. He certainly wouldnt be building more if people werent interested. So well said Graham, we just need to continue doing what we are doing. The phone bit with Z21 and others, but not forgetting Hornby's bluetooth control through the phone. Take care my friend.
Absolutely!! Well said!! 👏🏼👏🏼 It is alive and well!! Just because Hattons as gone means absolutely nothing!! People are just panicking. Fantastic video!! Best wishes
I think your analysis of the life of a railway enthusiast from a child to a pre retired or retired grownup is absolutely 100 per cent correct it mirrors my journey into the hobby from beginning to now, I also agree on your analysis of the state of the hobby regards to its popularity, Its far from going down the tubes for all the reasons you have stated, I'm 73 and it will be going strong long after I'm gone, so well said Graham, you may have put the doom and gloom to bed once and for all, regards, Colin.
Couldn’t agree more. I see no signs of decline. I had a couple of 19 year olds here running trains a couple of weeks ago. They were enthusiastic beginners building layouts. Surprised me. They saw the whole model train idea differently than we but they did see it clearly. Cheers my friend
Couldn't agree more with the sentiments of this video. I came out of the hobby in my late teenage years - girls, drinking, going out - like you said. Had a break for over 20 years before coming back into the hobby. When I was modelling in my early teenage years the hobby was seen as an "old mans hobby" - so nothing has really changed ..... Hattons closure was probably more to do with the fact they no longer stocked Bachman. As an N gauge modeller I more or less stopped buying from them as they didn't stock any Farish models. Hattons did make a loss in 2022 and I suspect 2023 was possibly no better ? As for Warley - it was run by a club and it has just run its course. New shows will appear ( a couple of new ones north of the border this year. I suspect a number of individuals who have pontificated via their channels were possibly more interested in click bait !!
Thank you for the comment sir and I think you might be right about the click bait. Personally I’m not interested how many views I get, the videos I put up are purely for entertainment purposes, I don’t monetise my videos either even though I could, I don’t rely on them for extra income like some UA-camrs do but that’s their choice and I have nothing against that if that’s what they want to do. This video was just about expressing my opinion on what I have seen on my UA-cam feed which seemed mainly to do with folk throwing their arms up in the air and saying that this hobby was all over with - not true by any stretch of the imagination. Well that’s my opinion anyway. 👍🏻. Cheers. …………Graham
Many thanks Richard for comment and yes, hopefully the op will go ok for me, 2 weeks today and it should all be over apart from the recovery. So looking forward to getting back to some form of normality again. Cheers. …………Graham
Yep I’d agree Graham , young old people will always want to play trains and have fun. Too many doom and gloom folk about ,I worked in a railway works but wasn’t overly interested in trains . As you said life is a ever changing journey 😊 Best regards Fred
Very well said Graham, I think you,ve nailed it. The layout I built for my son is a small one , he is now 13 and not as involved in it as he was when younger , I keep it going and it’s always there for him when he wants it .
That’s perfect my friend and if your son doesn’t come back to it then it’s always there for you to expand it should you wish to. 👍🏻. Cheers. …………Graham
Very well said Graham. At 68 I expect to retire next year and hope to start my layout soon after. My employment takes me away from home for 9 months of the year, this being so, I purchase railway stuff regularly, actually way more than I need, I have the "Sable" syndrome (stuff acquired beyond live expectancy). But like you I buy what I like, in my case pretty much ONR (Ontario Northland), ACR (Algoma Central), TH&B (Toronto, Hamilton, & Buffalo) and other short line stuff along with a little bit of CP and CN. Steam, early diesel, late diesel; what ever takes my fancy (including some from the UK). Do to age I'm not going to do much scenery, but will concentrate on laying track and doing switching operations with scenery building being a secondary job. As for the Beatles, when we immigrated from Market Deeping to Canada in the 60's I brought along my plastic 4 string Beatles guitar, seeing what they sell for today I wish I still had it so I buy several new loco's!!!! Cheers, Geoff
Indeed Michael and we have to adapt and move forward with the changes which let’s face it, is not that hard to do, just a different way of thinking and over a gradual time frame too. 👍🏻. Cheers. …………Graham
Warley is a victim of the NEC, just look at GETS! Reasonable price to get in and free car parking! Hattons closing is business decision! The owner wanted out! Bits will be saved by other companies, some won’t ! It’s a great opportunity for other companies in the business!
Spot on as regards Warley and one of the reasons I didn’t go to it, I estimated that it would cost me about £90 to get there in travel and buy tickets, so that’s £90 off my spending before I even step through the doors, I just can’t warrant that kind of expense. As regards Hattons then we will all have to wait and see on that I guess but as I said in the video, I hardly ever bought from them anyway so to me personally, the closing won’t have much of an impact on me as such although other retailers may benefit because of it. Cheers. …………Graham
Well Graham, I could've written that script for you. 100% agree. I live about 20 mins away from Rails and they seem to expand by the day! I visit the shop when I'm in Sheffield for the football and it's always busy, as is our local shop D W Models. As for the phone thing, that's a reason I got back into the hobby. The tech side of things I find just as interesting. Good luck with the op. All the best.
Well I’m a newbie coming into the hobby. I started last year and continue to proceed with building my TT120 layout. I’ve since bought a Roco Z21 and I’ve bought iTrain because I like the idea of full automation and I’m very grateful to people like Graham and others who have made such wonderful helpful videos. Cheers Steve PS I hope your eye gets better soon. ❤
Hi Graham, you make some really great points as always. Am I the only one who never bought a thing from Hattons? Yeah like you said, it's unfortunate a big retailer decides to close down, but your right, there are others out there. I remember when Accurascale and Rapido started Uk production thinking how great it was for our hobby to have more choice instead of the usual blue and red boxes, and look now, so many smaller producers are making great products. As for the cost of models, yes prices have gone up, but I remember as a kid my parents could only afford a loco at special times of the year, Birthday or Christmas. It's gone full circle and once more we can only afford locomotives etc at special occasions. I have been blown away by DCC sound as I know you enjoy that too, but instead of paying a furtune replacing locomotives I have been upgrading my older models and for Christmas this year I installed sound in my 15 year old Bachmann class 108, and it sound amazing. Little and often as finances allow. Exhibitions and Warley, I've not been for years, it was too crowded and you couldn't see much when you did go. So I tend to go to my more local shows, I think my last was Stamford last year, it was a great day out, and cheaper too, which allowed me to buy something. I do get that the committee of Warley had run it for years and were getting older so who can blame them for hanging up the baton. I nearly missed your last afterthought. Yes youngsters are glued to their phones today, so why not control your trains from your phone too. You can see where Hornby were going with their latest control offerings. If you use JMRI through a laptop any DCC layout can use a phone as a controller, you just need to download the Engine Driver app. Your idea of small modular scenes is something very popular in US railroad modelling. They call it Freemo, you have a standard size module with set track positions on and off the module but can do what you like in your module. Then they link them all together to make a huge layout, brilliant really. Oh sorry I've been waffling again, I'll call it a day. Hope your eye gets better soon, all the very best Dave.
I don't think the hobby is in decline. It's evolving. New makers are coming on board. I didn't start until my early 30s took a break and came back in a big way during the lockdown. Shops closing is nothing new. I remember Beatties sadly closing. The hobby will survive and evolve. Hope you are soon in the swing of things. Cheers Paul.
Graham well said I couldn't agree more. You may remember the national model railway shop chain from the 1970s called Beatties that closed down for good but did the hobby die?? ABSOLUTELY NOT. It's unfortunate that Hattons is closing but like the WHARLEY MODEL RAILWAY EXHIBITION it is not as bad as we think it is. I see both of these things as a temporary situation in that current economic climate is prohibitive to trading conditions so both organizations have taken the difficult decision to temporarily close whilst the economy improves. So whilst it looks pretty tough at the moment. It's not over yet for our hobby, we have other model railway shops to purchase from than ever before. I'm not concerned or worried about our perception that the hobby is in decline because it is NOT IN DECLINE. ITS JUST CHANGING AS new concepts and tools come on stream for the older models from hornby. I remember airfix, mainline (palitoy), wrenn, lima, Graham Farish- the old railway modelling manufacturers who served us well over the years and sadly either closed permanently or merged with the likes of hornby, Bachmann. But the hobby hasn't died folks, just changed with new technologies. Fingers crossed for your eye operation in 2 weeks 😊. Take care and bye for now.
Totally agree Graham.Iam positive I believe the Hobby is actually expanding.Yes sad about Hattons and Warley.When I lived in Wetherby I was a member of Harrogate Model Railway Club .We use to put on large show At the pavillion for a number of years .We were lucky to break even.Our chairman at the time stopped and we put on a local show that had members layouts and the wives and girlfriends put on some delicious meals and Cakes and we made a whopping profit for the club that we were able to renew the track on the clubs layout .2 of my so 11:52 n's have come back to the Hobby through gaming .Well done and well said.
Hi, agree with yours thoughts. I started in the hobby two years ago after finishing work (Engineer by trade), it’s given me a whole new world to get into. Having other hobbies (including coarse fishing) I do think cost is an issue and a barrier to some entering the hobby with a degree of seriousness.
Everything goes in cycles, the same with all hobbies. My Plunkerville R/R of four years is taking it to a different level. " TOY RAILROADING ON A SHOE STRING".
Hi Graham, thanks for doing this video, very well said, i shared a news paper article on my facebook page and was shocked by the amount of negative comments on the hobby, the article itself was very negative and i spent about 2 hours in the loft infront of the camera trying to express my opinion on the subject and i felt like i was just being a broken record going in circles lol so i kept it short and simple and done a bit of a running session to, but what you said is spot on and i fully agree, i thought what peter waterman and the rail nuts done with there layout in chester cathedral was great as they let kids run trains using ipads, so thats a mix of computers and model railways using new technology and like you mentioned the hobby changes and evolves, i remember when dcc started being more widely available it took me a while to see the benefits of it and make the change from analogue to dcc, hope your eye is better soon and you can get back to those fantastic projects that you do, and always enjoy your facebook posts. Tom
Your point regarding tablets and mobiles use by teenagers is interesting. That is the way forward and having virtual train sets as a way of attracting back teenagers
Spot on Graham .I got back into the hobby by building box car kits in my hotel room when I was away on business.However as the baby boomers die off there has got to be an overall shrinkage in the number of model railroaders.
Exactly. Even in the UK, model train sales are up over the last 10 years (even if down from the height of lockdown). More companies are producing more and varied stock, and there are dozens of start ups joining the 3D world. There are changes, closures, etc., but the hobby is still going on.
Completely agree. As a kid who "grew out of it", I'm now looking to get back into it as my own kids grow up and prepare to leave home. And what an exciting time to get back into the hobby.. DCC, Arduino, 3d printing, the big companies and the small indie manufacturers. Other than a second hand market that seems a bit overpriced I think it's amazing and I can't wait to get back into it The high second hand prices are also my argument as to why the hobby isn't dying - if it was the market would be flooded as people move on (by choice or otherwise), thereby reducing prices
Graham this is so well said, and I completely agree with you on every point you have made! I do feel like the videos out there spelling doom are really just knee jerk reactions, the reality is as you said, 30+ is your audience, not kids by any means. It took me 25 years to return to the hobby and it’s alive and well and stronger than ever. Cheers, Hylt
Fabulously said Graham one retailer out of how many in the uk very rarely I bought from Hattons I only got back into the hobby in my thirty’s we have no option now but to shop about unfortunately I wouldn’t touch Hornby web page I would rather spend in my local from a pound to hundreds it keep it there for all to use hope your keeping well 🚂🚂🚂🚂
Great comments Graham, and I totally agree with what you said. Yes, we’ve lost a few names of late (Hatton’s etc) but we’ve also gained many new companies coming to the market. Just look at the explosion in 3D printing and Laser Cutting companies now offering model railway products. The industry is changing and evolving with the times and youngsters are still very much involved. Just look at the advances in DCC over the past few years for example. We seem to get this doom and gloom messaging every 10 years or so, you can almost set your watch by it but as history has shown the hobby carries on! All the best and thank you for sharing this video 😊👍
Totally agree with your comments. Hattons made some bad decisions that effected their ability to continue trading. As far as I can see the hobby is doing really well change is inevitable and the manufacturers and outlets have to change to suit the conditions Keep safe.
Well said Graham,i thought it was the end of the world when the Westerns disappeared 😂but i still enjoyed seeing other locos and like everyone else i was well into model railways but got distracted by other things but i found it never leaves you and when i came back to it there's never been a better time to be into it,im guilty of buying a bargain when i see one and my obsession with Warships doesn't look like ending soon but i find its the best form of escapism and relaxation,take care and well said 👍
Hi Graham, I'm sad for many reasons that Hattons has closed, not least for the staff. Of course the hobby will continue and if anything we are encouraged to support our local model shops. I'm concerned that the hobby is becoming exponentially expensive and the likes of the late Hattons & Rails (both of which I use(ed) are/were able to offer big discounts. and I like many need to watch the spend. The last exhibition I visited (Railex Fareham) had a good age demographic. We need to encourage socialising and we'll need to accept that IT is taking over. Rather weirdly, as someone living on the south coast, due to my job, my last two visits to a 'local' retailer has been Tony's Trains of Rugby! Cheers, Dave. 🙏
I'm young and interested in the hobby, I'm also disabled can't afford to move out or spend the money, with the cost of living crisis I could see many people in a similar position. I get my fix via a few video games instead, but maybe one day if I gain the space and spare income I'll be able to get into it proper
totally agree with pretty much everything you said sir, for me it was action man,subbuteo,starwars, trainsets, all christmas presents payed for by the bank of mum & dad, then i hit my teens and discovered motor bikes and girls, both of which were also very costly in one way or another and the bank of mum & dad was closing, deep down i always had a passion for my trains though, travelling everyday to and from college in the late 80's early 90's. Something made me look through some old boxes in one of my many messy cupboards a few years back at the start of all the lockdown stuff and i found my old train set bits, this ignited my old passion and being longer in the tooth so to speak i did some research and found that people on youtube(which i had never been interested in before) were into trains, i watched and learnt and from that moment on i have'nt looked back and have built a layout that gives me so much joy, the only thing for me that has drastically changed my ability to buy trains/wagons etc is my disposable income has pretty much vanished due to the cost of basic things food/rent/utillity bills going up 150% in the space of months.
"You tell em luv" was a catchcry of an Australian comedienne back in the '50s, and I congratulate you for telling it like it is. The number of monthly magazines, UA-camrs, new manufacturers tells me that our hobby is very much alive and well.
Couldn't agree more. Prices have always seemed exspensive. The 142 pacer that I recently upgraded with lighting I think I bought it around 1989 at an exhibition, probably about £30 then which was almost a weeks wages for a faily basic model. When I was a youngster used to have the triang track that clipped together, take it apart after playing with it on the carpet, my cousin had one as well and we would meet up and join our sets together.
The hobby is not dying, they say the same thing about miniature wargaming, but the range of choices is huge. They wouldn’t produce them if they didn’t sell. Yes, it is a niche hobby, but healthy and thriving.
Hi Graham. Like many of us, we started our model railway adventure when we were young. Then moved away because of life’s distractions and returned later in life, but we had a start. The major issue being raised by manufacturers is that there are not the young starters, who would hopefully return to the hobby in the future. It’s these young starters that need to be encouraged to sustain the hobby going forward.
@@gppsoftware That is the problem. Hornby and Märklin are producing train sets/systems for the younger enthusiasts but from what I understand the uptake is not what they would like to see to feel confident about future years.
Graham, this discussion is a bit like the endless "death of first class cricket" debate. Both involve the perception that they are enjoyed by old men and are dying out with them but they don't! I certainly think the main demographic for the hobby is our generation but that doesn't mean it dies when we do. Look at Richard at Everard Junction who is in his 30s or Dave Watson at Dave Class 47 who is in his 40s. Model making is as old as humanity and some sort of model railway hobby will be there among that bigger hobby. It will change in the ways you outline. What I think needs doing is manufacturers paying more attention to making affordable and reliable models. For me the future is Railroad Plus and the like to attract people on a budget to decent models. The very detailed models that enthuse us are for a more techy minority but thats not the whole hobby. I think that using IT and AI will be one way to attract younger people. My main concern is that we as a generation grew up with trains in a way that young people haven't. For us trains were the epitome of high tech especially when steam was being replaced by diesel and electric. Also our train sets were our most high tech toys. I don't think trains hold as much allure to the young and they certainly have more high tech toys and hobbies than we did. Thats why your thinking on using more IT is correct. Good luck with the op!
No Graham the hobby is not dead but it is changing. We only have a fraction of the hobby shops we had 15 years ago but there again that could be attrbuted to the general demise of the High street and sky high council rates. We lost our only continental model supplier up in Scotland about 15 years ago and it was a big loss to myself . All Austrian and German brands and rolling stock were there in abundance . England lost a few of the big names too , but the new guys have taken up the slack for you UK outline modelers. We do have a guy in Carlisle but over 2 and a half hours away so a visit is out the question. Hope everything goes well for you in the next few weeks.
nicely said graham my, belief is you have to try and plant the seed with kids between 4 and 14 after 14 no chance, then maybe 30,40,50 years later you rekindle that childhood passion because you have more time, space, money, etc, but there is always the exception .................tony
Bully for you Graham , I read in the local paper with Hatton's closing and the cancellation of future Warley's . The decline is due to lack of the younger generation interest , I echo your opinion as a teenager Good On Yer Graham . I couldn't agree more with your comments about buying models , the truth is , far easier to knock something , than to compliment it . Chin up Graham
Hi Graham, Hazel and Ruby. 100% with you Graham. People vlogging doom and gloom about the hobby just send out negative vibes. Just look at our model shop Trains 4U, all young. Rocket railways all young etc. When I go to exhibitions, yes the older generation are there in numbers, but youngsters are also there. As you must have noticed as well. Yes it is expensive if you buy new, but the second hand market is very healthy. As for hornby they have started doing some cheap entry locos as you said, good on them. Get the young ones in the hobby, then after the teenage years they will remember the fun they had with trains when they were ankle biters. Sorry for the long comment, but it's an important vlog for our hobby. Thanks for this Graham. Stay safe.............Pete.
I completely agree with you Graham in fact I would go a bit further to say that I think the NEC played a big part in Warley calling it a day. Good luck with the roof now there is a skill but don't worry I'm taking no notice of what others are saying.with your idea I think peter waterman is doing that where he is getting kids involved via a tablet to run his layout.but a good idea . Brian
Second thought on the subject...... Our hobby is ZEN... A place to go away from Governments war & hate..... All we have to do is to convince the youth that their peace of mind lies in the rolling fields, towns. stations & rolling stock.. All together now Ummmmmmmmm!!! Keep the kids safe. Grand Dads of the world unite!! Save your Grand kids and start a build!!!! All we are saying is give builds & imagination a chance!!! Love you all!!!!
Good evening Graham I'm in total agreement with you all hobbys change just because one retailer is closing I didn't really shop there. I tend to shop at my local model shop and Plymouth. I started my modeling back in 69 then I discovered girls so yes I stopped but I built layouts for my kids then in older life I've come back. I bet if you asked 99.9% would say the same. Anyway my friend stay safe chat soon. Stephen
Everything you said i agree with. Enjoyed model railways as a kid. Then a teenager and wasn't interested. Now I'm in my 50s and am into model railways. I buy on line but i do wish i had a model shop nearby but there aren't any. I would rather have a rumage in a shop rather than buy online.
Went to another toy fair today as I often do, wall to wall, with a struggle to park. Never been so busy. I sometimes regret promoting toy fairs on my channel since covid as they are even busier now than before. But I'm sure it's not all my doing. The only decline I have seen is the lack of local model shops, but that has been happening since I was a kid and nothing new. Atb Graham 🙂
Shops are closing in all sectors of the retail market, it's the current way of the world. Virtually all the items I buy are on line, mainly because there has been no retail outlet near me until just recently so I had little choice. I always frequented shops when on my travels to browse, but usually I was not financially equipped to buy from them if on holiday etc. I haven't been to the new shop yet but I will soon now it's there. As to whether I buy or not will be based on the economics of price and availability of money. Funnily enough I have been buying items for the last 20+ years without an actual layout, but I have the chance now to finally create one again as I've reached a certain age (50's) and can find the time.
Aha, an opinion I can actually agree with! It's evolution plain and simple. It grinds my gears looking at clickbait Dr Doom crap...does wonders for their algorythms. The hobby is in rude health, cheers Graham
It has been suggested by many that the hobby should be introduced into the schools. Some may have had that in the past. I think that is what you are trying to say. It does take a village though
An overall good video here Graham, I certainly can’t see the hobby in decline and I won’t be packing up anytime soon, so far this year 3 model railway items have been bought by me these being a rake of hornby container wagons, the EFE Bulleid booster and just the other day I managed to find a hornby Ivatt Duchess locomotive the Sir William Stanier FRS version which I have wanted for a while now, I also have a fair few models coming in 2024 one being the new 18100 Gas Turbine from Rails/heljan and hopefully the KR Models Bulleid Leader so as you can see I won’t be packing up in this hobby anytime soon, some overall good points mentioned in this video your one about Warley being packed was a good one, while I didn’t get to that show at all really due to it being quite far from where I live the closest I got to a show like Warley is to the Doncaster BRM show which I have attended twice and both times it has been packed with many people attending, in fact last year I managed to met some of my online friends there, in fact I’m hoping to get to this years one at Doncaster and I won’t be surprised it it’s packed out again, overall good video her Graham, some good points raised overall.
Graham ,common sense, as regards Warley, I expect that to put on such a show is so expensive, plus the ticket price ,travel and parking are becoming prohibitive, with the cost of living. I would like the major manufacturers to bring out a budget range to encourage more hobbyists. Prices have really shot up. Still I don't think that the hobby is failing just evolving
I've said in other posts, Hattons has closed due to their own success. I saw it happen to small shops in the 90s and early 2000s. Also the cottage industry is far stronger these days which has seen me purchase many items from eBay. I've also heard that Hattons has kept their USA shop, that in itself tells the industry is still strong, for them
We hear the same thing over here, (U.S.) the Model Shop I work in usually sells locomotives every day. Not to mention rolling stock. We have a lot of kids interested in the hobby. They do sometimes back off in their teens, but then they get married and then get their kids interested. The only complaint I have is the cost is making it harder for the kids to be active. Gone are the reasonably priced, reliable locomotives like the Athearn "blue box" locomotives. Athearn is still around, but the costs are 10 times as much.
Firstly, I haven't done any research into the model railway business in the UK. I've bought from Hattons on occasion in the past, but more from Rails. I grew up in Sheffield, less than 2 miles from Rails - so it's a very familiar store. I assume they are doing well as I now live in Dronfield (in Derbyshire, near Sheffield) and Rails (before it was called that) started over the shop down my road. Recently they have opened up a new warehouse facility down on the industrial estate in Dronfield, so I presume they see a good future to invest so much in a shiny new building. I agree with your overall view Graham. It's never been a teen pastime. I do worry about the massive upwards trajectory in prices though.
I think you are right about tech based hooks for younger modellers. Also do we have any young icons to follow Pete Waterman, Jules Holland et al. For instance the cast of Harry Potter would be a great connection to promote our hobby
Hi Graham, hope you’re ok, so sad about Hatton’s deciding to shut up shop after all those years, as you state about the negativity in the hobby are the opinions are of individuals, for instance Hornby are not in my good books because of their poor customer service and products, there are people whom defend them 24/7 because they’ve never had an issue with them, when you do have an issue Hornby make it difficult for you to get a positive outcome because in my opinion they don’t care! Accurascale have had their faults but they sort them out because they genuinely care about their products and their customers, again this is down to personal experience so I know this to be true. Hatton’s had some amazing prices that made you buy extra item’s because you saved so much money, I understand model railway retailers need to make money so sales and discounts could be at a minimum, I also buy what I like and not what I need so if it appeals to me I will do my very best to get it if the price is in my budget, I’ve been into this unique hobby on and off for over 44 years so let’s hope it continues for many years to come, thanks for sharing.
Well said Graham. From an Australian perspective, have the doom sayers looked at recent event crowds? Glad covid has settled down a little, because at the last Sydney exhibition I attended you couldn't put a pin between patrons - of all ages and both genders.
Declined in what way? Have prices gone up? Yes. Is the hobby right now a luxury rather than a hobby to some people struggling to get by with rising costs of living? Sure. Does that mean the hobby is dying? No. Hattons closed, sure it's a sad thing when a model shop closes but the weeks before they closed I saw more and more people bemoaning a lack of customer service from Hattons and ridiculous prices for second hand models. Now if you look at social media you'd be forgiven for thinking that everyone shopped at Hattons and it was everyone's favourite shop. Good job though on actually analysing the hobby a bit and who are the 'young ones' that are supposed to be coming into the hobby. 'Young' in the hobby absolutely are people in their 30s-40s (it feels good to be considered young in something!). You have a great knack for talking good old fashioned common sense which sometimes gets lost on social media especially. Also, who at some point hasn't had a Smokey Joe loco that goes at 100mph and had fun with that? That is exactly what I had as a kid, bought for me by my dad and exactly like you said, the seed was sown way back when and now I'm back in the hobby 20-25 years later. It's a long term game to keep the hobby going, but it's exactly what needs to happen and kudos to Hobby for keeping that going. That's been part of their business model for however long and hopefully it will continue for a lot longer
To me it’s only in a decline because of the increase during lockdown so now people aren’t in lockdown anymore it’s going down as I expected it would but I don’t think it will decline more than before lockdown.
I have several hobbies. Only going to mention 2 of them. One is of course Model Trains and the other is RC planes. I hear the same thing about RC planes, the end of the hobby, it's over, the government is killing it, on and on...... I can tell you that is not true from what I have seen by going to RC flying meets and swap meets. Our club has grown each year with new members. The annual event we hold at a non club field has doubled in attended over the years. It's mostly UA-camrs jumping on a band wagon to get clicks (Likes, subscribers and $$). Thanks Graham...
Graham at the end of the day new companies would not be starting up in a dying industry FACT, The only issue is the high cost of some of the products especially Bachman are guilty of this , But I think Accurascale have demonstrated that doesn't need to always be the case
Hi Graham I hope you are well Yes they nothing wrong it the hobby It happened in every business look at steel in Wales it does not mean tata are going bust. As you know I run what I like. You seen a few of my clips. But I agree with everything you say in this video Keep safe ARP
Much as I love you Graham I have to disagree: the hobby is, in fact, in decline. Here on the continent it's even worse. Roco and Märklin are both in major trouble as far as I can see, people are simply dying off alas. Very sad it is too. Joachim
To be blunt, as I don't mince my words, whether the hobby is less popular or not makes not one jot of difference to me, or should it to anyone else! The manufactures and retailers obviously will feel it but they are partly to blame for any sales problems themselves, by their greed and obscene price hiking over the last decade! Lets face it, if they all shut tomorrow, they have already sold enough model railway items to last the ongoing hobbyists and future market another 50 years. ***** Model railways, hobbies in general, are a personal thing for personal pleasure and not a competition to have the biggest following, so what does it matter either way! ***** I don't get it. For what purpose are you trying to recruit more people into the hobby and why does it matter? It's not a religion or a particular cause, so what are you trying to do and why?
Hi and thank you for the constructive comment. Just to be clear, I don’t mince my words either and will say what I want, when I want. I’m sorry you don’t ‘get it’ as so many others seem to but that’s your prerogative. I’m certainly not trying to recruit more people into the hobby and I never once mentioned that it was some form of religion so I have no idea where that came from and that was certainly not the intention of this video, it was more to put another side to the many doom and gloom videos I have watched over recent days as I vehemently disagree, now if you disagree with that then that’s fine, I don’t have a problem with that at all. As I kept reiterating throughout the video, this is just my own personal opinion of the state of the hobby as I see it at this point in time and I’m allowed to have that opinion even if you think otherwise. It is heartwarming though that reading through the comments thus far that the vast majority are leaning towards what I was trying to say which unfortunately you ‘don’t get’. But hey ho, you are perfectly within your right to say otherwise. As long as you are happy with our wonderful hobby that we share then that really is the main thing. Cheers. ………..Graham
@@GrahamFoulston Hi Graham, Sorry I forgot to sign off my comment to you. Thank you for taking the time to read it and reply. I'm not sure how you understood my comments so I will try to explain. Your video seemed to centre around the question of whether the hobby was in decline or not. It wasn't that I disagreed with your view that it wasn't in decline, my entire point was whether or not it actually mattered whatever the answer to that was. Further to that I asked why you were implying that there was a responsibility on those already in the hobby to sustain it and introduce it to others. You yourself 33 minutes into this video made the suggestion about getting more youngsters involved in the hobby, as if we needed to make model railways a cause!. To be clear, what "I don't get" is why anyone needs to worry about new interest in the hobby, or to even keep the hobby going in a mainstream way at all, what does it matter, why is it even an issue? Just because we do it and enjoy it, why must others have to in future? Regards Julian
glyn Williams from north Wales what you sed about model railway I don't it is in decline you sed about warly model railway show might have to stop it sad if that happens you mentioned hattons it sad about family business i bought a decoder so i can run my king class on it just had delivery two days ago sound decoder from you choose had a mishap phoned them this morning they told me to send it back to be tested see what they tell what to do Graham all the best hope EF goes well when you go to hospital
nicely said graham my, belief is you have to try and plant the seed with kids between 4 and 14 after 14 no chance, then maybe 30,40,50 years later you rekindle that childhood passion because you have more time, space, money, etc, but there is always the exception .................tony
🔴Graham - not usually a commenter - have followed you since your kitchen floor.
please shorten your video's they are getting too long !!
make your point and end it - we dont have 40 minutes of our lives to listen to what can be put across in 10.
Not sure I agree with you though - the hobby is being destroyed by ebay sellers and online auctions that are now in it for a "money making excercise" rather than to offer the goods at a reasonable price and what is affordable to younger generation. In 10 years the hobby will become self destructive by greed - there will be no one prepared to pay the prices . Fortunately like you It dosnt bother me- being the owner of as much stock (collected for over 50 years) as I can / want to run on my layouts.
Hi and thank you for your comment. I fully understand that not everyone will agree with me and my thoughts - you included but I think we need to get one thing straight, I will not be dictated to on matters like how long my videos should or shouldn’t be, I produce videos for many reasons and some obviously take longer than others because of what I want to show or say and I will not be told what should be in that content or how long each one should take. Every single video on UA-cam shows the length of the video and so it’s up to the viewer to watch or not - your choice. Fortunately I have the time and patience to watch a 2 hour long video should it be of interest, if not then I skip it and go onto another video.
We are obviously not on the the same wavelength as regards the subject of this video which is fine, we are all entitled to our own individual thoughts on this matter and I have no problem with that and like you, I can agree or disagree as the case maybe. So to keep things short which is what you are after then I suggest that if you are a subscriber to my channel that you unsubscribe, then we will both be happy. Cheers. Graham
What is your problem. I think there must be some sort of control on your device where you could end the vlog.
Graham is so well thought of in our hobby maybe it's a bit of jealousy on your part that you're not.
Graham keep doing your tutorials and expressing your options as long as you can. Most of us are on the same page as you anyway.
@@delphjunction1168 Thank you my friend and much appreciated too. 👍🏻👍🏻. Cheers. …………Graham
The voice of reason. Well said Graham. Hattons closing and Warley being stopped isn't the end of the world, everything evolves, and nothing lasts forever. The hobby is alive and well.
I couldn’t agree more. The hobby is not dying!!! Its changing.
00 being the main market, has also changed, things are looking up. The model railway industry is valued at 4 Billion pounds. Things are not all doom and gloom!
Now, I’m 27. I’ve always been an odd lad in that I’ve not left the hobby. I’m part of a model railway club, I also model in 7mm. I’ve lost interest in 00, as I found the skills involved in 7mm interest me far more. Kits are where I go, which means I’m involved with the cottage industries. I’m not buying models from the likes of Hattons, Rails etc.
But things are changing for me too, I’m not collecting loads of things etc. As I’m cherry picking a ‘loco build’ then I’m spending time preparing for it.
Price has been a significant factor for me, but in the long term 7mm has been cheaper than 00. But I have had to get equipment to support the kit building that I do.
I’m tempted to do a video on my thoughts on this. But I think I’ve done that now. 🙂
Cheers
Tom
Finally someone high profile is saying what I've been saying. Well said Graham. Couldn't agree more with what you've said.
Thank you, I wouldn’t have said I have a high profile though! 😂. But pleased that you found this of interest and kind of goes along with you way of thinking too. 👍🏻. Cheers. …………Graham
100% agree with this supportive comment. T🚂
Well said Graham. The voice of sense and reason. I started, thanks to my late brother, in 1945 with my Hornby clockwork on the lawn in Manchester. In 1948 I was inspired,by a picture of David St John Thomas in his Farther’s Train Room in Newton Abbott, to one day have a railway room of my own. (David you will recall as one half of David and Charles the publishers). I was also inspired by Rev. Edward Beal and his scratch built ‘West Midland’ and his descriptions of home made solenoid point motors for me to copy, aged 12! Fast forward to the present day where I do have that room and happily run my analogue trains of various vintages; some pocket money memories, some early Triang and Hornby Dublo plus more modern say Hornby and Haljan smooth runners etc, etc. All in all a wonderful hobby that has been and will continue to be, a source of pleasure, comfort and creative satisfaction. Over the years I’ve witnessed many upheavals, changes and ever improving standards. I treasure it all and totally support your view that our hobby is far from being in decline. Hope you eye op. goes very well and you can pick up your tools and apply your great skills again and video them for our mutual benefit.
Best Wishes, Tony (aka T🚂).
Nicely put together Graham...Simon
Thanks Graham- you’ve cheered me up. Your words are wise. I also saw some of those videos which were rather doom and gloom. Some comments suggested we needed more technology to attract the young, or special interest groups within the hobby to attract more women. One commentator even complained there were too many old men in the hobby! As if older men were somehow to blame! Let’s keep political correctness out of our hobby and try to encourage people of any age or background to take it up and enjoy it.
Many thanks Barry and I’m glad I managed to cheer you up, I think we all need that at the moment don’t we? I think what I said needed to be said after watching some of the videos which had so much negativity about our hobby and the way it seems to be going - according to them! 👍🏻. Cheers. ………..Graham
Hi Graham, I couldn't agree any more. Our hobby is thriving, and whilst a few shops may close and shows change, there are thousands upon thousands of people so excited to see our models trundling around our tiny little worlds. Im thinking of people like yourself, many many youtubers, along with Pete Waterman and the amazing response to his layouts. He certainly wouldnt be building more if people werent interested.
So well said Graham, we just need to continue doing what we are doing.
The phone bit with Z21 and others, but not forgetting Hornby's bluetooth control through the phone.
Take care my friend.
Absolutely!! Well said!! 👏🏼👏🏼 It is alive and well!! Just because Hattons as gone means absolutely nothing!! People are just panicking. Fantastic video!! Best wishes
Great video well said agree with you 👍
Well said Graham
The voice of reason! Very interesting listen Graham 👍🏻👍🏻
I think your analysis of the life of a railway enthusiast from a child to a pre retired or retired grownup is absolutely 100 per cent correct it mirrors my journey into the hobby from beginning to now, I also agree on your analysis of the state of the hobby regards to its popularity, Its far from going down the tubes for all the reasons you have stated, I'm 73 and it will be going strong long after I'm gone, so well said Graham, you may have put the doom and gloom to bed once and for all, regards, Colin.
Couldn’t agree more. I see no signs of decline. I had a couple of 19 year olds here running trains a couple of weeks ago. They were enthusiastic beginners building layouts. Surprised me. They saw the whole model train idea differently than we but they did see it clearly. Cheers my friend
@@gppsoftware Good point, I have no idea what they are buying or from whom. Perhaps there are too many manufacturers chasing too few customers.
They hobby over here across the pond isn't in decline either, especially the prices. Thanks for your comments sir. 🤘🚂🤘
No problem my friend and I’m glad to hear that the hobby is succeeding over the pond. 👍🏻👍🏻. Cheers. …………Graham
Couldn't agree more with the sentiments of this video. I came out of the hobby in my late teenage years - girls, drinking, going out - like you said. Had a break for over 20 years before coming back into the hobby. When I was modelling in my early teenage years the hobby was seen as an "old mans hobby" - so nothing has really changed ..... Hattons closure was probably more to do with the fact they no longer stocked Bachman. As an N gauge modeller I more or less stopped buying from them as they didn't stock any Farish models. Hattons did make a loss in 2022 and I suspect 2023 was possibly no better ? As for Warley - it was run by a club and it has just run its course. New shows will appear ( a couple of new ones north of the border this year. I suspect a number of individuals who have pontificated via their channels were possibly more interested in click bait !!
Thank you for the comment sir and I think you might be right about the click bait. Personally I’m not interested how many views I get, the videos I put up are purely for entertainment purposes, I don’t monetise my videos either even though I could, I don’t rely on them for extra income like some UA-camrs do but that’s their choice and I have nothing against that if that’s what they want to do. This video was just about expressing my opinion on what I have seen on my UA-cam feed which seemed mainly to do with folk throwing their arms up in the air and saying that this hobby was all over with - not true by any stretch of the imagination. Well that’s my opinion anyway. 👍🏻. Cheers. …………Graham
Well said Graham you are perfectly right. Hope your eye op goes well. Best wishes Richard. Cantertbury
Many thanks Richard for comment and yes, hopefully the op will go ok for me, 2 weeks today and it should all be over apart from the recovery. So looking forward to getting back to some form of normality again. Cheers. …………Graham
Yep I’d agree Graham , young old people will always want to play trains and have fun. Too many doom and gloom folk about ,I worked in a railway works but wasn’t overly interested in trains . As you said life is a ever changing journey 😊 Best regards Fred
Indeed Fred and it’s up to us to adapt to these small changes as life goes on, after all, it’s not that difficult ! 👍🏻. Cheers. …………Graham
Very well said Graham, I think you,ve nailed it. The layout I built for my son is a small one , he is now 13 and not as involved in it as he was when younger , I keep it going and it’s always there for him when he wants it .
That’s perfect my friend and if your son doesn’t come back to it then it’s always there for you to expand it should you wish to. 👍🏻. Cheers. …………Graham
Hi Graham your thoughts I think will resonate with most of your viewers they certainly do with me
Steve
Very well said Graham.
At 68 I expect to retire next year and hope to start my layout soon after. My employment takes me away from home for 9 months of the year, this being so, I purchase railway stuff regularly, actually way more than I need, I have the "Sable" syndrome (stuff acquired beyond live expectancy).
But like you I buy what I like, in my case pretty much ONR (Ontario Northland), ACR (Algoma Central), TH&B (Toronto, Hamilton, & Buffalo) and other short line stuff along with a little bit of CP and CN. Steam, early diesel, late diesel; what ever takes my fancy (including some from the UK).
Do to age I'm not going to do much scenery, but will concentrate on laying track and doing switching operations with scenery building being a secondary job.
As for the Beatles, when we immigrated from Market Deeping to Canada in the 60's I brought along my plastic 4 string Beatles guitar, seeing what they sell for today I wish I still had it so I buy several new loco's!!!! Cheers, Geoff
Hear, hear. You are absolutely right, life is about change.
Indeed Michael and we have to adapt and move forward with the changes which let’s face it, is not that hard to do, just a different way of thinking and over a gradual time frame too. 👍🏻. Cheers. …………Graham
Warley is a victim of the NEC, just look at GETS! Reasonable price to get in and free car parking!
Hattons closing is business decision! The owner wanted out! Bits will be saved by other companies, some won’t !
It’s a great opportunity for other companies in the business!
Spot on as regards Warley and one of the reasons I didn’t go to it, I estimated that it would cost me about £90 to get there in travel and buy tickets, so that’s £90 off my spending before I even step through the doors, I just can’t warrant that kind of expense. As regards Hattons then we will all have to wait and see on that I guess but as I said in the video, I hardly ever bought from them anyway so to me personally, the closing won’t have much of an impact on me as such although other retailers may benefit because of it. Cheers. …………Graham
I haven't been to the Warley show for years . Too expensive, then the price of parking was a joke.
Well Graham, I could've written that script for you. 100% agree. I live about 20 mins away from Rails and they seem to expand by the day! I visit the shop when I'm in Sheffield for the football and it's always busy, as is our local shop D W Models. As for the phone thing, that's a reason I got back into the hobby. The tech side of things I find just as interesting.
Good luck with the op.
All the best.
Well I’m a newbie coming into the hobby. I started last year and continue to proceed with building my TT120 layout. I’ve since bought a Roco Z21 and I’ve bought iTrain because I like the idea of full automation and I’m very grateful to people like Graham and others who have made such wonderful helpful videos.
Cheers
Steve
PS I hope your eye gets better soon. ❤
Hi Graham, you make some really great points as always. Am I the only one who never bought a thing from Hattons? Yeah like you said, it's unfortunate a big retailer decides to close down, but your right, there are others out there.
I remember when Accurascale and Rapido started Uk production thinking how great it was for our hobby to have more choice instead of the usual blue and red boxes, and look now, so many smaller producers are making great products. As for the cost of models, yes prices have gone up, but I remember as a kid my parents could only afford a loco at special times of the year, Birthday or Christmas. It's gone full circle and once more we can only afford locomotives etc at special occasions. I have been blown away by DCC sound as I know you enjoy that too, but instead of paying a furtune replacing locomotives I have been upgrading my older models and for Christmas this year I installed sound in my 15 year old Bachmann class 108, and it sound amazing. Little and often as finances allow.
Exhibitions and Warley, I've not been for years, it was too crowded and you couldn't see much when you did go. So I tend to go to my more local shows, I think my last was Stamford last year, it was a great day out, and cheaper too, which allowed me to buy something. I do get that the committee of Warley had run it for years and were getting older so who can blame them for hanging up the baton.
I nearly missed your last afterthought. Yes youngsters are glued to their phones today, so why not control your trains from your phone too. You can see where Hornby were going with their latest control offerings. If you use JMRI through a laptop any DCC layout can use a phone as a controller, you just need to download the Engine Driver app. Your idea of small modular scenes is something very popular in US railroad modelling. They call it Freemo, you have a standard size module with set track positions on and off the module but can do what you like in your module. Then they link them all together to make a huge layout, brilliant really.
Oh sorry I've been waffling again, I'll call it a day. Hope your eye gets better soon, all the very best Dave.
I don't think the hobby is in decline. It's evolving. New makers are coming on board. I didn't start until my early 30s took a break and came back in a big way during the lockdown. Shops closing is nothing new. I remember Beatties sadly closing. The hobby will survive and evolve. Hope you are soon in the swing of things. Cheers Paul.
Very good comments, fully agree with you.
Thank you very much John! 👍🏻👍🏻. Cheers. …………Graham
Graham well said I couldn't agree more. You may remember the national model railway shop chain from the 1970s called Beatties that closed down for good but did the hobby die?? ABSOLUTELY NOT. It's unfortunate that Hattons is closing but like the WHARLEY MODEL RAILWAY EXHIBITION it is not as bad as we think it is. I see both of these things as a temporary situation in that current economic climate is prohibitive to trading conditions so both organizations have taken the difficult decision to temporarily close whilst the economy improves. So whilst it looks pretty tough at the moment. It's not over yet for our hobby, we have other model railway shops to purchase from than ever before. I'm not concerned or worried about our perception that the hobby is in decline because it is NOT IN DECLINE. ITS JUST CHANGING AS new concepts and tools come on stream for the older models from hornby. I remember airfix, mainline (palitoy), wrenn, lima, Graham Farish- the old railway modelling manufacturers who served us well over the years and sadly either closed permanently or merged with the likes of hornby, Bachmann. But the hobby hasn't died folks, just changed with new technologies. Fingers crossed for your eye operation in 2 weeks 😊. Take care and bye for now.
I have four sons all in their Twenties wanting to know who I leave my collection to.... LOL.. The journey continues.... Graham your a hero!!!!!
Totally agree Graham.Iam positive I believe the Hobby is actually expanding.Yes sad about Hattons and Warley.When I lived in Wetherby I was a member of Harrogate Model Railway Club .We use to put on large show At the pavillion for a number of years .We were lucky to break even.Our chairman at the time stopped and we put on a local show that had members layouts and the wives and girlfriends put on some delicious meals and Cakes and we made a whopping profit for the club that we were able to renew the track on the clubs layout .2 of my so 11:52 n's have come back to the Hobby through gaming .Well done and well said.
Hi, agree with yours thoughts. I started in the hobby two years ago after finishing work (Engineer by trade), it’s given me a whole new world to get into. Having other hobbies (including coarse fishing) I do think cost is an issue and a barrier to some entering the hobby with a degree of seriousness.
Everything goes in cycles, the same with all hobbies. My Plunkerville R/R of four years is taking it to a different level. " TOY RAILROADING ON A SHOE STRING".
Indeed sir, everything does go in cycles and it’s up to us to adapt to those cycles! 👍🏻👍🏻. Cheers. …………Graham
Couldn't have said it better. A shop's shut and a show stopped big deal!
Well said Graham! All the best 👍
Thank you very much my friend and much appreciated as always. 👍🏻. Cheers. …………Graham
Hi Graham, thanks for doing this video, very well said, i shared a news paper article on my facebook page and was shocked by the amount of negative comments on the hobby, the article itself was very negative and i spent about 2 hours in the loft infront of the camera trying to express my opinion on the subject and i felt like i was just being a broken record going in circles lol so i kept it short and simple and done a bit of a running session to, but what you said is spot on and i fully agree, i thought what peter waterman and the rail nuts done with there layout in chester cathedral was great as they let kids run trains using ipads, so thats a mix of computers and model railways using new technology and like you mentioned the hobby changes and evolves, i remember when dcc started being more widely available it took me a while to see the benefits of it and make the change from analogue to dcc, hope your eye is better soon and you can get back to those fantastic projects that you do, and always enjoy your facebook posts. Tom
Your point regarding tablets and mobiles use by teenagers is interesting. That is the way forward and having virtual train sets as a way of attracting back teenagers
You are quite right Graham all the best Martin
Many thanks Martin and as always, your comment is much appreciated. 👍🏻. Cheers. ………….Graham
Spot on Graham .I got back into the hobby by building box car kits in my hotel room when I was away on business.However as the baby boomers die off there has got to be an overall shrinkage in the number of model railroaders.
Exactly. Even in the UK, model train sales are up over the last 10 years (even if down from the height of lockdown). More companies are producing more and varied stock, and there are dozens of start ups joining the 3D world. There are changes, closures, etc., but the hobby is still going on.
Completely agree. As a kid who "grew out of it", I'm now looking to get back into it as my own kids grow up and prepare to leave home.
And what an exciting time to get back into the hobby.. DCC, Arduino, 3d printing, the big companies and the small indie manufacturers. Other than a second hand market that seems a bit overpriced I think it's amazing and I can't wait to get back into it
The high second hand prices are also my argument as to why the hobby isn't dying - if it was the market would be flooded as people move on (by choice or otherwise), thereby reducing prices
Graham this is so well said, and I completely agree with you on every point you have made! I do feel like the videos out there spelling doom are really just knee jerk reactions, the reality is as you said, 30+ is your audience, not kids by any means. It took me 25 years to return to the hobby and it’s alive and well and stronger than ever.
Cheers,
Hylt
Fabulously said Graham one retailer out of how many in the uk very rarely I bought from Hattons I only got back into the hobby in my thirty’s we have no option now but to shop about unfortunately I wouldn’t touch Hornby web page I would rather spend in my local from a pound to hundreds it keep it there for all to use hope your keeping well 🚂🚂🚂🚂
Great comments Graham, and I totally agree with what you said. Yes, we’ve lost a few names of late (Hatton’s etc) but we’ve also gained many new companies coming to the market. Just look at the explosion in 3D printing and Laser Cutting companies now offering model railway products.
The industry is changing and evolving with the times and youngsters are still very much involved.
Just look at the advances in DCC over the past few years for example.
We seem to get this doom and gloom messaging every 10 years or so, you can almost set your watch by it but as history has shown the hobby carries on!
All the best and thank you for sharing this video 😊👍
Totally agree with your comments. Hattons made some bad decisions that effected their ability to continue trading. As far as I can see the hobby is doing really well change is inevitable and the manufacturers and outlets have to change to suit the conditions Keep safe.
Totally agree Graham
Thank you David and much appreciated sir. 👍🏻. Cheers. …………Graham
Well said Graham,i thought it was the end of the world when the Westerns disappeared 😂but i still enjoyed seeing other locos and like everyone else i was well into model railways but got distracted by other things but i found it never leaves you and when i came back to it there's never been a better time to be into it,im guilty of buying a bargain when i see one and my obsession with Warships doesn't look like ending soon but i find its the best form of escapism and relaxation,take care and well said 👍
It all sounded logical and from experience
Warley I understand, Hatton's I do not , more to the story than anyone will ever understand, will never give up on my OO railway
Hi Graham, I'm sad for many reasons that Hattons has closed, not least for the staff. Of course the hobby will continue and if anything we are encouraged to support our local model shops. I'm concerned that the hobby is becoming exponentially expensive and the likes of the late Hattons & Rails (both of which I use(ed) are/were able to offer big discounts. and I like many need to watch the spend. The last exhibition I visited (Railex Fareham) had a good age demographic. We need to encourage socialising and we'll need to accept that IT is taking over. Rather weirdly, as someone living on the south coast, due to my job, my last two visits to a 'local' retailer has been Tony's Trains of Rugby! Cheers, Dave. 🙏
I'm young and interested in the hobby, I'm also disabled can't afford to move out or spend the money, with the cost of living crisis I could see many people in a similar position. I get my fix via a few video games instead, but maybe one day if I gain the space and spare income I'll be able to get into it proper
Well said sir, a sensible perspective on the current state of play.
totally agree with pretty much everything you said sir, for me it was action man,subbuteo,starwars, trainsets, all christmas presents payed for by the bank of mum & dad, then i hit my teens and discovered motor bikes and girls, both of which were also very costly in one way or another and the bank of mum & dad was closing, deep down i always had a passion for my trains though, travelling everyday to and from college in the late 80's early 90's. Something made me look through some old boxes in one of my many messy cupboards a few years back at the start of all the lockdown stuff and i found my old train set bits, this ignited my old passion and being longer in the tooth so to speak i did some research and found that people on youtube(which i had never been interested in before) were into trains, i watched and learnt and from that moment on i have'nt looked back and have built a layout that gives me so much joy, the only thing for me that has drastically changed my ability to buy trains/wagons etc is my disposable income has pretty much vanished due to the cost of basic things food/rent/utillity bills going up 150% in the space of months.
"You tell em luv" was a catchcry of an Australian comedienne back in the '50s, and I congratulate you for telling it like it is. The number of monthly magazines, UA-camrs, new manufacturers tells me that our hobby is very much alive and well.
Couldn't agree more. Prices have always seemed exspensive. The 142 pacer that I recently upgraded with lighting I think I bought it around 1989 at an exhibition, probably about £30 then which was almost a weeks wages for a faily basic model.
When I was a youngster used to have the triang track that clipped together, take it apart after playing with it on the carpet, my cousin had one as well and we would meet up and join our sets together.
The hobby is not dying, they say the same thing about miniature wargaming, but the range of choices is huge. They wouldn’t produce them if they didn’t sell. Yes, it is a niche hobby, but healthy and thriving.
Hi Graham. Like many of us, we started our model railway adventure when we were young. Then moved away because of life’s distractions and returned later in life, but we had a start. The major issue being raised by manufacturers is that there are not the young starters, who would hopefully return to the hobby in the future. It’s these young starters that need to be encouraged to sustain the hobby going forward.
@@gppsoftware That is the problem. Hornby and Märklin are producing train sets/systems for the younger enthusiasts but from what I understand the uptake is not what they would like to see to feel confident about future years.
Graham, this discussion is a bit like the endless "death of first class cricket" debate. Both involve the perception that they are enjoyed by old men and are dying out with them but they don't! I certainly think the main demographic for the hobby is our generation but that doesn't mean it dies when we do. Look at Richard at Everard Junction who is in his 30s or Dave Watson at Dave Class 47 who is in his 40s. Model making is as old as humanity and some sort of model railway hobby will be there among that bigger hobby. It will change in the ways you outline. What I think needs doing is manufacturers paying more attention to making affordable and reliable models. For me the future is Railroad Plus and the like to attract people on a budget to decent models. The very detailed models that enthuse us are for a more techy minority but thats not the whole hobby. I think that using IT and AI will be one way to attract younger people. My main concern is that we as a generation grew up with trains in a way that young people haven't. For us trains were the epitome of high tech especially when steam was being replaced by diesel and electric. Also our train sets were our most high tech toys. I don't think trains hold as much allure to the young and they certainly have more high tech toys and hobbies than we did. Thats why your thinking on using more IT is correct. Good luck with the op!
No Graham the hobby is not dead but it is changing. We only have a fraction of the hobby shops we had 15 years ago but there again that could be attrbuted to the general demise of the High street and sky high council rates. We lost our only continental model supplier up in Scotland about 15 years ago and it was a big loss to myself . All Austrian and German brands and rolling stock were there in abundance . England lost a few of the big names too , but the new guys have taken up the slack for you UK outline modelers. We do have a guy in Carlisle but over 2 and a half hours away so a visit is out the question. Hope everything goes well for you in the next few weeks.
Absolutely spot on. Priorities change, space issues are a consideration too.
Exactly Steve, because the hobby is changing in many ways then that doesn’t mean it’s in decline, far from it in my opinion. 👍🏻. Cheers. …………Graham
nicely said graham my, belief is you have to try and plant the seed with kids between 4 and 14 after 14 no chance, then maybe 30,40,50 years later you rekindle that childhood passion because you have more time, space, money, etc, but there is always the exception .................tony
Bully for you Graham , I read in the local paper with Hatton's closing and the cancellation of future Warley's . The decline is due to lack of the younger generation interest , I echo your opinion as a teenager Good On Yer Graham . I couldn't agree more with your comments about buying models , the truth is , far easier to knock something , than to compliment it . Chin up Graham
Hi Graham, Hazel and Ruby.
100% with you Graham. People vlogging doom and gloom about the hobby just send out negative vibes.
Just look at our model shop Trains 4U, all young. Rocket railways all young etc.
When I go to exhibitions, yes the older generation are there in numbers, but youngsters are also there. As you must have noticed as well.
Yes it is expensive if you buy new, but the second hand market is very healthy.
As for hornby they have started doing some cheap entry locos as you said, good on them. Get the young ones in the hobby, then after the teenage years they will remember the fun they had with trains when they were ankle biters.
Sorry for the long comment, but it's an important vlog for our hobby.
Thanks for this Graham.
Stay safe.............Pete.
I completely agree with you Graham in fact I would go a bit further to say that I think the NEC played a big part in Warley calling it a day. Good luck with the roof now there is a skill but don't worry I'm taking no notice of what others are saying.with your idea I think peter waterman is doing that where he is getting kids involved via a tablet to run his layout.but a good idea .
Brian
Second thought on the subject...... Our hobby is ZEN... A place to go away from Governments war & hate.....
All we have to do is to convince the youth that their peace of mind lies in the rolling fields, towns. stations & rolling stock..
All together now Ummmmmmmmm!!!
Keep the kids safe. Grand Dads of the world unite!! Save your Grand kids and start a build!!!! All we are saying is give builds & imagination a chance!!!
Love you all!!!!
Good evening Graham I'm in total agreement with you all hobbys change just because one retailer is closing I didn't really shop there. I tend to shop at my local model shop and Plymouth. I started my modeling back in 69 then I discovered girls so yes I stopped but I built layouts for my kids then in older life I've come back. I bet if you asked 99.9% would say the same. Anyway my friend stay safe chat soon. Stephen
Everything you said i agree with. Enjoyed model railways as a kid. Then a teenager and wasn't interested. Now I'm in my 50s and am into model railways. I buy on line but i do wish i had a model shop nearby but there aren't any. I would rather have a rumage in a shop rather than buy online.
Went to another toy fair today as I often do, wall to wall, with a struggle to park. Never been so busy. I sometimes regret promoting toy fairs on my channel since covid as they are even busier now than before. But I'm sure it's not all my doing. The only decline I have seen is the lack of local model shops, but that has been happening since I was a kid and nothing new. Atb Graham 🙂
Shops are closing in all sectors of the retail market, it's the current way of the world.
Virtually all the items I buy are on line, mainly because there has been no retail outlet near me until just recently so I had little choice.
I always frequented shops when on my travels to browse, but usually I was not financially equipped to buy from them if on holiday etc.
I haven't been to the new shop yet but I will soon now it's there. As to whether I buy or not will be based on the economics of price and availability of money.
Funnily enough I have been buying items for the last 20+ years without an actual layout, but I have the chance now to finally create one again as I've reached a certain age (50's) and can find the time.
Well said GRAHAM..
Aha, an opinion I can actually agree with! It's evolution plain and simple. It grinds my gears looking at clickbait Dr Doom crap...does wonders for their algorythms. The hobby is in rude health, cheers Graham
It has been suggested by many that the hobby should be introduced into the schools. Some may have had that in the past.
I think that is what you are trying to say. It does take a village though
An overall good video here Graham, I certainly can’t see the hobby in decline and I won’t be packing up anytime soon, so far this year 3 model railway items have been bought by me these being a rake of hornby container wagons, the EFE Bulleid booster and just the other day I managed to find a hornby Ivatt Duchess locomotive the Sir William Stanier FRS version which I have wanted for a while now, I also have a fair few models coming in 2024 one being the new 18100 Gas Turbine from Rails/heljan and hopefully the KR Models Bulleid Leader so as you can see I won’t be packing up in this hobby anytime soon, some overall good points mentioned in this video your one about Warley being packed was a good one, while I didn’t get to that show at all really due to it being quite far from where I live the closest I got to a show like Warley is to the Doncaster BRM show which I have attended twice and both times it has been packed with many people attending, in fact last year I managed to met some of my online friends there, in fact I’m hoping to get to this years one at Doncaster and I won’t be surprised it it’s packed out again, overall good video her Graham, some good points raised overall.
Graham ,common sense, as regards Warley, I expect that to put on such a show is so expensive, plus the ticket price ,travel and parking are becoming prohibitive, with the cost of living.
I would like the major manufacturers to bring out a budget range to encourage more hobbyists. Prices have really shot up. Still I don't think that the hobby is failing just evolving
I've said in other posts, Hattons has closed due to their own success. I saw it happen to small shops in the 90s and early 2000s. Also the cottage industry is far stronger these days which has seen me purchase many items from eBay. I've also heard that Hattons has kept their USA shop, that in itself tells the industry is still strong, for them
We hear the same thing over here, (U.S.) the Model Shop I work in usually sells locomotives every day. Not to mention rolling stock. We have a lot of kids interested in the hobby. They do sometimes back off in their teens, but then they get married and then get their kids interested. The only complaint I have is the cost is making it harder for the kids to be active. Gone are the reasonably priced, reliable locomotives like the Athearn "blue box" locomotives. Athearn is still around, but the costs are 10 times as much.
Firstly, I haven't done any research into the model railway business in the UK. I've bought from Hattons on occasion in the past, but more from Rails. I grew up in Sheffield, less than 2 miles from Rails - so it's a very familiar store. I assume they are doing well as I now live in Dronfield (in Derbyshire, near Sheffield) and Rails (before it was called that) started over the shop down my road. Recently they have opened up a new warehouse facility down on the industrial estate in Dronfield, so I presume they see a good future to invest so much in a shiny new building. I agree with your overall view Graham. It's never been a teen pastime. I do worry about the massive upwards trajectory in prices though.
The hobby will never die while there's fools like me trying to recreate Redgates in my spare bedroom.
I think you are right about tech based hooks for younger modellers. Also do we have any young icons to follow Pete Waterman, Jules Holland et al. For instance the cast of Harry Potter would be a great connection to promote our hobby
Hi Graham, hope you’re ok, so sad about Hatton’s deciding to shut up shop after all those years, as you state about the negativity in the hobby are the opinions are of individuals, for instance Hornby are not in my good books because of their poor customer service and products, there are people whom defend them 24/7 because they’ve never had an issue with them, when you do have an issue Hornby make it difficult for you to get a positive outcome because in my opinion they don’t care! Accurascale have had their faults but they sort them out because they genuinely care about their products and their customers, again this is down to personal experience so I know this to be true.
Hatton’s had some amazing prices that made you buy extra item’s because you saved so much money, I understand model railway retailers need to make money so sales and discounts could be at a minimum, I also buy what I like and not what I need so if it appeals to me I will do my very best to get it if the price is in my budget, I’ve been into this unique hobby on and off for over 44 years so let’s hope it continues for many years to come, thanks for sharing.
Well said Graham. From an Australian perspective, have the doom sayers looked at recent event crowds? Glad covid has settled down a little, because at the last Sydney exhibition I attended you couldn't put a pin between patrons - of all ages and both genders.
Declined in what way? Have prices gone up? Yes. Is the hobby right now a luxury rather than a hobby to some people struggling to get by with rising costs of living? Sure. Does that mean the hobby is dying? No. Hattons closed, sure it's a sad thing when a model shop closes but the weeks before they closed I saw more and more people bemoaning a lack of customer service from Hattons and ridiculous prices for second hand models. Now if you look at social media you'd be forgiven for thinking that everyone shopped at Hattons and it was everyone's favourite shop.
Good job though on actually analysing the hobby a bit and who are the 'young ones' that are supposed to be coming into the hobby. 'Young' in the hobby absolutely are people in their 30s-40s (it feels good to be considered young in something!). You have a great knack for talking good old fashioned common sense which sometimes gets lost on social media especially.
Also, who at some point hasn't had a Smokey Joe loco that goes at 100mph and had fun with that? That is exactly what I had as a kid, bought for me by my dad and exactly like you said, the seed was sown way back when and now I'm back in the hobby 20-25 years later. It's a long term game to keep the hobby going, but it's exactly what needs to happen and kudos to Hobby for keeping that going. That's been part of their business model for however long and hopefully it will continue for a lot longer
To me it’s only in a decline because of the increase during lockdown so now people aren’t in lockdown anymore it’s going down as I expected it would but I don’t think it will decline more than before lockdown.
I have several hobbies. Only going to mention 2 of them. One is of course Model Trains and the other is RC planes. I hear the same thing about RC planes, the end of the hobby, it's over, the government is killing it, on and on...... I can tell you that is not true from what I have seen by going to RC flying meets and swap meets. Our club has grown each year with new members. The annual event we hold at a non club field has doubled in attended over the years. It's mostly UA-camrs jumping on a band wagon to get clicks (Likes, subscribers and $$). Thanks Graham...
watch if you haven't already done Jennifer e kirk railways exclusive interview with the ceo of Hattons
Good point Graham. Cheers Andy 👍
Thanks Andy and much appreciated sir! 👍🏻. Cheers. …………Graham
what is the loco behind you?
Graham at the end of the day new companies would not be starting up in a dying industry FACT, The only issue is the high cost of some of the products especially Bachman are guilty of this , But I think Accurascale have demonstrated that doesn't need to always be the case
Hi Graham
I hope you are well
Yes they nothing wrong it the hobby
It happened in every business look at steel in Wales it does not mean tata are going bust.
As you know I run what I like. You seen a few of my clips.
But I agree with everything you say in this video
Keep safe ARP
regarding the modules, they do this in America
Much as I love you Graham I have to disagree: the hobby is, in fact, in decline. Here on the continent it's even worse. Roco and Märklin are both in major trouble as far as I can see, people are simply dying off alas. Very sad it is too. Joachim
To be blunt, as I don't mince my words, whether the hobby is less popular or not makes not one jot of difference to me, or should it to anyone else!
The manufactures and retailers obviously will feel it but they are partly to blame for any sales problems themselves, by their greed and obscene price hiking over the last decade! Lets face it, if they all shut tomorrow, they have already sold enough model railway items to last the ongoing hobbyists and future market another 50 years.
***** Model railways, hobbies in general, are a personal thing for personal pleasure and not a competition to have the biggest following, so what does it matter either way! *****
I don't get it. For what purpose are you trying to recruit more people into the hobby and why does it matter? It's not a religion or a particular cause, so what are you trying to do and why?
Hi and thank you for the constructive comment. Just to be clear, I don’t mince my words either and will say what I want, when I want. I’m sorry you don’t ‘get it’ as so many others seem to but that’s your prerogative. I’m certainly not trying to recruit more people into the hobby and I never once mentioned that it was some form of religion so I have no idea where that came from and that was certainly not the intention of this video, it was more to put another side to the many doom and gloom videos I have watched over recent days as I vehemently disagree, now if you disagree with that then that’s fine, I don’t have a problem with that at all. As I kept reiterating throughout the video, this is just my own personal opinion of the state of the hobby as I see it at this point in time and I’m allowed to have that opinion even if you think otherwise.
It is heartwarming though that reading through the comments thus far that the vast majority are leaning towards what I was trying to say which unfortunately you ‘don’t get’. But hey ho, you are perfectly within your right to say otherwise. As long as you are happy with our wonderful hobby that we share then that really is the main thing. Cheers. ………..Graham
@@GrahamFoulston Hi Graham, Sorry I forgot to sign off my comment to you. Thank you for taking the time to read it and reply. I'm not sure how you understood my comments so I will try to explain.
Your video seemed to centre around the question of whether the hobby was in decline or not. It wasn't that I disagreed with your view that it wasn't in decline, my entire point was whether or not it actually mattered whatever the answer to that was.
Further to that I asked why you were implying that there was a responsibility on those already in the hobby to sustain it and introduce it to others. You yourself 33 minutes into this video made the suggestion about getting more youngsters involved in the hobby, as if we needed to make model railways a cause!.
To be clear, what "I don't get" is why anyone needs to worry about new interest in the hobby, or to even keep the hobby going in a mainstream way at all, what does it matter, why is it even an issue? Just because we do it and enjoy it, why must others have to in future?
Regards Julian
Just so…
glyn Williams from north Wales what you sed about model railway I don't it is in decline you sed about warly model railway show might have to stop it sad if that happens you mentioned hattons it sad about family business i bought a decoder so i can run my king class on it just had delivery two days ago sound decoder from you choose had a mishap phoned them this morning they told me to send it back to be tested see what they tell what to do Graham all the best hope EF goes well when you go to hospital
nicely said graham my, belief is you have to try and plant the seed with kids between 4 and 14 after 14 no chance, then maybe 30,40,50 years later you rekindle that childhood passion because you have more time, space, money, etc, but there is always the exception .................tony