My understanding from this video is as follow (not sure if it’s correct): 1). Narc has an idealized snapshot of you; 2). and he coerced you to be his mother; 3). then he needs to get rid of you as a revenge to his mother who he was not able to separate from; 4). However he has “object constancy” and is unable to get his perfect snapshot of you (or others) from his mind; 5). Therefore he would devalue you-disrespect, humiliate, upset and hurt you in order to devalue the snapshot… 6). In case you leave the Narc after being devalued/discarded he will hoover you back because he cannot get rid of the original snapshot he took of you (he has anxiety when losing any of his snapshots); 7). But if you return to the Narc after being idealized/love-boomed again, the vicious cycle repeats itself-meaning he will want to separate from the “mother/you” again; Conclusion: ultimately you are either abused and devalued permanently or you leave permanently with “NO CONTACT”
but how does this work with mortification? my narc ex did this to me, but because we have a child together, no contact isn't possible. He now seems to interact with me as the "devalued" snapshot, never the idealized snapshot.
I caught my ex hoovering an old gf from childhood. She is now 50+ yrs older & handicapped. I couldn’t figure out why he would create an affair with her after 50 yrs. Now I realize he was having a fantasy with the snapshot of youth, not the women she is now. Its mind blowing how they do this.
The haircut is nice 👌🏾 yes, these synthesize all other information full circle and give me a firm understanding that they CANNOT change and are mentally ill. Point taken. 🫣
This makes so much sense. I could never get my ex to see that I was NOT disrespecting him, that I was NOT trying to hurt him and never had. He continued to believe his inner image of me no matter how many years I spent proving those accusations wrong.
It's like this with narcissist I think because they think a certain way so they don't understand that we can think differently than them it's projection
Sometimes it's their delusions and to obtain an emotional response/fuel. The accusations seem often to be confessions about the very things they do themselves so they accuse you instead of taking responsibility.
@@NarcHark888 yes it's projection. Just whatever they projected you be sure not to own it or absorb it and then it has nowhere to land it has to go right back to them.
I wonder if this is why i always felt my ex narc was still hung up on his exes, even long before i ever had evidence. I had never experienced being so preoccupied with a partners exes or female friends until the relationship with him. I think I somehow absorbed this information energetically. It makes so much sense now, why i was fixated on this, learning that they keep a harem of internal objects in their minds that include all of their exes. Fascinating stuff.
I just dealt with this with a covert narcissist. I began to start working more, making more money than him, began the process of opening my own business he started to complain I was talking about my business too much, he began to devalue me everyday. If I shared photos with him of a house I was buying he refused to comment. I stopped arguing with him, I began to respond assertively and not respond with emotions which only upset him more. He began to get angrier until he decided to discard me. I blocked him and went no contact. I noticed the more my life was improving, the more money I began to make he began to try to gain more power over me and insult me more daily and try to triangulate. I wish him well, but I refuse to be controlled.
Wow!! You ARE 100% correct! I kept wondering where all my pics are disappearing to….. all my albums, boxes of pics, missing…. He made sure I was in no photos with him & his family and if I was they are gone!!! It all makes sense now…. I’m not leaving…. He’s trying to force me out of my home by treating me like a piece of crap. But I don’t let it bother me…. For years before I knew what he was it would upset me greatly…. I would beg & plead for him to tell me what was wrong and he would not talk, ever!!! But, everything you say to a “T” is 100% correct. I’ve lived it for over 30 years! He’s trying to force me out….. i found out a lot of things he did that are Federal Offenses And if I need to go there, I will. No fool over here anymore! TYSVM Sam Vaknin, You are my therapist.❤
Yes, I have questions for this place too - is getting rid of external object equal to getting rid of its snapshot or there is an eternal internal snapshot gallery? The latter would explain why narcissists are pinging through the years, like checking a backup copy - are there still files available 😅
Im guessing that's the case, that the narc has a whole album of snapshots lol. I've heard this called the narc harem (lots of videos on UA-cam on it). He has a list ef exes that he cycles back to once in a while. My ex husband who is a narc was contacting his old high school girlfriend (he is a cheater) so that rings true for me that he can't get rid of those introjects.
Finally someone explaining Narcissism through Melanie Klien's theories and defenses. They are the most complicated but it makes sense why Narcissist's psyche is also complicated and beyond comprehension for most. I extensely work with Survivors of Narcissistic abuse and most of it is explaining to them that how the abuse has nothing to do with the survivors instead is about the complexities held by Narcissists in their psyche since childhood.
You seem lighter, happier than when I first discovered your videos. I really enjoy watching your talks and sharing them with friends who are dealing with partners who have these issues. I was able to extricate myself from a toxic friendship a few years ago with your help, thank you.
No one needs this level of psychological drama in their life. It’s great and interesting to read up on. But in actual real life, no one needs this level of mentally I’ll drama in their lives. Just move so far on and so fast and deal with healthy people
I totally agree but there are people who have already experienced this in their lives and are still going through such traumas. It is nearly impossible for those who experienced to forget all and just move on as if nothing had happened. I wish I didn't go through this drama (this video was very precise description of what I had gone through). Yet I appreciate the fact that I could almost 'read the narcissist's mind'. It feels as if the mystery has revealed why the narcissist behaved the way he did. I don't have to devalue myself based on his 'snapshot' that's only in his mind.
I am so glad that these videos and knowledge are out in the open for free. More and more I understand my ex-girlfriend whose behavior was shocking me to the core. I broke up with her when she disrespected me in a very painful way. First I was angry and confused, then I learned about NPD and was angry at myself for ignoring the red flags. Now it makes me sad. Why NPD is so difficult to treat?
Why do we always ignore red flags I've always ignored red flags too and it's always the same pattern you know love bombing devaluation discard and then whatever I get myself together here they come
Because individuals with NPD are completely unable of introspection. Their defense mechanisms to avoid such are so incredibly hardwired that it makes them nearly impossible to treat, if not completely. In order to change and become a healthy person you've got to be self aware and accept you're wrong sometimes and take accountability. They are just not capable of doing so. Utterly emotionally stunted. I'm sorry you're going through this. For us neurotypicals is traumatizing to grasp this concept but radical acceptance is necessary to not prolong the misery they bring and how it breaks you. One day at the time pal..
You made perfect sense as my relationship was by FB chats during pandemic lockdown with a schoolmate I knew 60 years ago. In 1963 he was "cruel", his behavior never changed over a lifetime of psychotic endings. He lives 7700 miles away. Your "snapshot" discussion revealed exactly what I saw/endured on social media. FB is his father/mother, abundant flying monkeys, where he can remain King of the hill. Yes you made sense using the "snapshot". Thanks.
Thank you very much for your passion to explain this complicated concept. Even ignorant like myself finally catched the idea... Still trying to understand why my private narc behaved this unbelievably weird way... I'm crushed....but I belive that knowledge is a power. One day I will rebuild broken me....I can only feel sorry for people with NPD....hope not to be a target to another one anymore....
Oooooh, just finished listening to your explanation until the end of the video! It's ALL CLEAR now!!! I have never heard such a perfect explanation, and the example you have provided of the snapshot made it clearer and easier to understand!!!! ✨✨✨ Thank you so much Doctor 🙏🏻
While I listen to this video I am going over in my mind everything that happened with my narc and understanding everything totally and completely. Thank you Sam.🙏🏻💫
I wish he would get a whiteboard and draw a chart, so I would understand too. But my second best option is to rewatch the video. Or use my own whiteboard.
The final explanation made since. That must be why they apologize and try to remember the good times after the relationship has ended. They reach out like they forgot how the relationship fell apart, or choose to ignore why the relationship fell apart.
You explain things that make perfect sense in my mind. From the day we met to the discard 23 years later, this explains so much in such an eerie way. Thank you for your work.
This is exactly what happened to me in a 17 year marriage. I am a 44 year old male and it is exactly how things happened. Helped me heal a lot to understand how the hell all the madness makes sense to them. As a person that goes thru the phases not understanding anything, this video clarifies it all. My Loving wife chocked me, threatened to kill me, burn me with hot oil. Etc etc. Not sure if the physical was worst than the psychological. Thanks for organizing the process and you can’t be more right. It’s so empowering to be able to interact now with this person and see all these things happen so in sequence so exactly the same it’s complete madness. There will be no deviation from this pattern from what I see.
Omg i was thinking im only im this world with this patological persona..this is sick.my kids are with that.only 10years i almost kill myself last 4..how you survive 17years??? Im on antidepressant and i move 2000km abroad.
Oh my gosh I'm so sorry to hear this yes this is not okay and anyway any kind of abuse is not okay I have two children with a man who did this kind of stuff to me
My narc always told me I was his sun. Filling him with warmth, light and life. When he discarded me he said he left our sun system like a lost satellite, feeling abandonment and coldness, being alone. Sounds sad for me but I know it’s really how our 2 realities are: I’m still the sun of my own sun system and I don’t need toxic satellites in here. He’s somewhere out there in the vast nothingness of space, forever remembering all the the suns he once orbited, always looking for a new one.
My gosh perfectly explicit execution of what one goes through when involved with the narcissist! Others may try to repeat Prof Vaknin but you sir will never be duplicated! Impossible! Just wow! Always an education. Thank you!
He has stated it has minimal value because the stage of child development that remains stunted the mother is the primary caregiver. The father does not apply because the father is only relevant to later developmental stages.
Deceitfulness is described by the DSM as a psychopathic trait. If I recall correctly, most narcissists tend to confabulate instead of just telling plain lies. However, I read in one of your texts that the exploitative behavior of a narcissist also implies some kind of manipulation, in order to reach his goal, even though being highly dissociative makes him believe that he has found a perfect 'mate' (or a mirror) in the beginning of a relationship with someone who can be idealized. In other words, how could he not have pretended during the love bombing phase, since he lacks both affective empathy and positive emotionality, although he may mislabel his conduct, as if it were well-meant? Cooper also suggests that pathological lying is inherent to covert narcissism. Finally, I'd like to thank you for posting such insightful videos. They've helped me a lot so far.
Sir,I love your sense of humour❤️ U r still Sam Vaknin after the hair cut AND I am Still Lingraj After Narcissistic Abuse Survived ONLY because of the help I got from Ur videos. Thanks so much. Namaste from Bangalore ,India .🙏🇮🇳💐
I’m just amazed how you intuitively know all this. I was married to a narcissist/ psychopath for 14 years. He still tries to control me via court. Unfortunately I got into several more similar situations with narcissistic men and I’m in the process of getting away from another man right now. Your videos have helped me immensely. I am so grateful for you doing this. Just understanding the background of the actions is a huge help to me to have strength to get away. AGAIN. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Q: I think my ex is N, but not certain. He idealised his mother and also insisted he was the perfect son. I knew I was idealised early in the relationship, but then later felt I fell severely short in the comparison. I was devalued. I Also felt manipulated at times into performing as she had. Do Narcissist’s ever idealise their mothers? I never got to meet his mother, but a mutual friend said she was controlling and that my ex and her had a kind of oedipus (but certainly not sexual)relationship. Hence no earlier girlfriends were good enough for him.
If a narcissist watched this video, would it resonate with him/her? I mean, do they “get it”? Could they say, “that does happen to me”, or “yeah, feels like that”. However, they can’t stop it. Perhaps, if a narcissist has watched this video and has read this comment/question, they could reply how they related to it. I am curious about the depth of their acknowledgment of understanding it.
I have narcissistic tendencies (especially cerebral NPD) but I'm not officially diagnosed, I am here watching Prof. Sam to help myself to heal. I was in a relationship with a BPD girl, and the describe process by prof Sam resonate with me, the big picture is the same, maybe some details could be different from person to another. I ended the relationship with her almost 4 months ago, because she betrayed me several times, and i didn't want to recycle the relationship anymore, I took a decision to help myself to heal. But it's true, I find it difficult to get rid of the introjects, it's more painful than leaving the real intimate partner. Prof. Sam if you read this comment, please can you suggest me some books or some of your videos that could help me in my process of healing? Thank you.
Thank you ! This explanation is very clear and feels exactly like what happened. If I told him I only served as a prop to reenact the unfinished business with his mother, could he even grasp that ?
New haircut rocks! So the snapshot is forever. The failure is not being able to get you(the snapshot) out their head? It sounds like the narcissist either makes the snapshot perfect resulting in love bombing or all bad resulting in discard/devaluation. The narcissist in their mind controls this idealization or degradation of this snapshot. It makes me think of an artist who might paint a perfectly beautiful picture of nature with bright colors & then destroys by blotting, black paint on it. At anytime the paint 🎨 can dry on the canvas & the artist can make another beautiful picture/snapshot (hovering and or love bombing)
Narcs have lots of ex supplies, so do they keep all of them in their minds? Can they not get any of the previous supplies out of their minds or only the main supplies? The number 1's (as my ex would call me). The older they get, the more supplies they collect, their minds must be over flowing with snapshots of all ex supplies ... what a nightmare for poor old narcky !
The ex told me the other day when he has sex with women he sees pictures of all of past supplies flashing before his eyes. I think he had so many relationships in this lifetime that it messes with his mind whenever he tries to have a new relationship. I personally feel he is going crazy lol.
I have watched a lot of your videos on you tube. Thanks! You have helped med a lot in my process of understanding my life with my now EX-husbond (married for 22 years and it has been so many things I couldn’t “grasp” in my mind. He is a covert n and has been leader of the church we were in and positions like that. But at home /alone with him - and our 3 children, now grown ups- he has been so difficult to live with… But, and this is my point of writing here: Though I felt that he in a very long period has discarded and devalued me and I for a long time felt like I was slowly dying, bit after bit,he didn’t move or throw me out. It was me alone who gad to take the decision to leave and (for people in the church and so -and especially his parents!!!) it was a chock and I am “the bad one” !!! So: he devalued and discarded me “insides” but I had to do the break up (to survive mentally etc). And he still has the ring on his finger and has a lot of “pitty-power” over our kids, who still seems angry at me and dont see me very often. It’s because he keeps saying “we married to death us depart”. And he argues with that promise and will never agree the divorce…that I (alone) has wanted. How often does that happen, you think? That the narc makes life miserable for the partner but will not take the consequense and agree in divorce etc…
This sounds similar to what happened with my mom & myself. She allowed my father to abuse me as a child and as an adult she did other things that are hard to even speak about because of how shameful they are and continues to try to make me feel like everything is my fault. As a result of this I cut contact with her & my father and now she throws a pity party and tries to use my religion (Christianity) against me by saying I should honor her 🤦♀️ She tells everyone I’m the cruel one for distancing myself but she won’t ever admit any of the harm she did to me. Ever. She tells people a different story and that I am making things up. The final straw for me was when she tried to use my sons to control me… I’m so over it. I don’t feel guilty because I am not going to allow her to continue to abuse and hurt me but sometimes I wonder how can people be this way. I currently struggle with ruminating about all that I’ve been through with my parents.
@@arlette2722 ❤️❤️❤️wish you all the best!!! I know the ruminating!! It also takes some of my sleep some nights…! The worst thing is when the children are in “the middle of it all” and I’ m so sorry for them, when they are victims of his behavior as well… he doesn’t hit them og anything like that, but they’re often not really allowed to have their own opinion and I know they walk on egshells now when with him. But I can’t og will not force them to be with me. Just try to make my home a place, where they are free to be who they truly are, and can say to me what they want without being afraid … I moved out (from the beautyful place that we build op together… and which I miss, the big garden and so…) in october 2020 and their father seems to still hope I’ m coming back… That will never happen!!
Aloha🌺 I am sorry for the decades of pain and confusion you have endured, especially under the guise of religion. I am Christian and it deeply saddens me how such horrible things are done in God's name which have nothing to with Him and are often evil. I think the situation you describe happens frequently, narcissists may follow a similar underlying mechanism but they are still individuals with unique mitigating factors in how their pathology manifests. NPD is a 'trauma response' at its core and includes arrested development, emotionally. They enlist others with their highly attuned cognitive abilities and stream of lies. They usually malign those closest to them, constantly redirecting the perceived threat and inflicting projected pain, a child still defending themselves from abuse and rejection (decades later). Years ago, I left a man who continues to destroy every facet of my life, in ways beyond anything I could have conceived of long ago. During the time we were together, he entrenched himself deep into my life. I thought we were building a life, in reality he was building a prison replete with chains to bind me. When he turned on me, we fought and I eventually left. Most people see him as a suffering, devoted man whose generosity and commitment is unwavering. They have no idea of who he is or what he has done. Narcissists dwell in such a desperate state, they will use any means to maintain their illusion, both the one they portray externally and the one which lies within.
This has happened to me, I filed for a divorce whether he agreed to it or not. I was done and over it mentally, physically and emotionally. There was just no way I'd ever consider going back to that. It was a clean cut, no contact situation and still refuse to 15 years and a completed divorce later. Nope.
Mirjam, I think it is very common for Narcs to force their spouses to be the ones to file for the divorce. This allows them to place the blame for the divorce on the filer, & then they can forever after play the victim of that bad marriage. It’s just the ultimate way for them to not take any responsibility for their marriage break up. The cowards way out! Speak your truth to your inner circle of close friends & family. Let everyone else think whatever they want. Their opinions don’t really matter. The ultimate truth will stand the test of time.
Thank you Professor Vaknin. That Narcissist will be stuck for eternity. I Discarded Him at the beginning of Devaluation and No contact. Hopefully he’s enjoying the miserable game that he had planned for me! Feel bad for the next victim. The next Narcissist will be stuck in his own Trap.?By the way, I love your humor ❤❤
I just got dumped by a man who I think is a narcissist. He told me how cool I was but that he found someone else hahaha some dissonance there? The new relationship that he is forming is long distance . she is being idealized from afar only to be discarded when they finally meet. What a loser... I can't believe I spent 3 yrs on this guy.
Is this process something that is pre-planned? In other words, are they aware that they are doing this? Or is it just a vicious and continual self fulfilling prophecy, done on a sub conscious level, that they are somehow oblivious to? Thank you.
Thank you for all that you do, Prof. Vaknin. I was wondering if you have a book list anywhere of novels that truly impacted you or expanded your knowledge meaningfully. Cheers.
Your work is brilliant, a pleasure to listen too. Why can't a narcissist just accept that someone actually loves them for who they whole heartedly are? There must be a way to undo this trauma?
I understand your position, but unfortunately the outcome with a narcissist is inevitable. It is never a happy, fulfilling or healthy relationship with them and will always bring negative results and impact to you. Your best strategy is to remove yourself from any relationship with them and go no contact FOR LIFE. You cannot make a narcissist view love, Intimacy or a relationship the same as you do. They will never think or connect or love like we do. Good luck
Brilliantly exposed Susanne, from my own experience, one step forward and they pull you right back two steps, they are bound to be addicted to chaos, no matter how much love you give them
He has a another video on here that explains how a narcissist can get better. The narc has to go through a process of mortification in which he has to experience an abrupt public or traumatic humiliation. He has to be humbled.
@@reneehyslip4549 I don’t remember. He has tons of videos. From watching his videos, I’ve gathered that he doesn’t think personality disorders are really curable, but the person can become self aware enough to protect others from himself as he has done.
How ironic when you said he devalue me in order to sepearate from his mother(me the partner beeing the mother) if that is true why did the foul go right back to living with the dead mother? He was 33 when I broke up with him after our 12 year relashionship he's 41 now lives with mommy.
What happen when narcissist mother die? Does this work for him as separation fase ? How it change his behavior with past and future partener? Thank you beforehand!🙏 I descovered acute narcissistic traits in my husband when his adoptive mother passed away. He consider her as his true mother. His biological mother is still alive but not much contact and he know her from childhood (adoption between brothers familles).
I am borderline. I had a 18.5 year marriage to a overt narcissist and a 7.5 relationship with a covert that I ended that left me feeling gutted for several months especially when I heard she was seeing someone new. Stumbling onto some videos about narcissism helped shed light on what I’d been through which helped snap me out of thinking of her night and day. I realized that a lot of of what I was listening to was completely one sided and the more I heard about codependency the more I understood how messed up I am. My question is can therapy ever help a borderline recover a sense of self? Or is learning coping mechanisms so our avatar can better blend in the best we can hope for?
Hello! Fellow borderline 😊 Stumbled across your comment and, though this may not be helpful to you and maybe in the last year since this comment things have gotten better, but I fully recovered a sense of self after therapy! I know others that have as well and it’s a very possible thing. BPD can fully recover with the right treatment, you aren’t messed up at all. Hoping things are a bit better now?
Are you saying sir that when narcissists hoover anyone, they will repeat the same toxic circle ? Because they still somewhat have a false " perfect idealization" image of a significant other. Please correct me if m wrong Doctor. Thank you 🙏🏻
Mr. Vaknin, thank you for your immensely valuable information on this subject. I've seen several of your videos. Putting some things together, I want to see if I understood well: behind the narcissist's inability to come to a completion of his original separation through separation of an intimate partner-even when he physically separates from them-lies in the fact that he cannot separate from the introject of this partner (and mother). Did I understand well that they cannot get rid of the introject(s) because of a giant fear of abandonment? If not so, what then causes the inability to get rid of the introjects? And, do less wounded people have introjects too and do they go about them differently? Merry Christmas you!
Could this be why some prefer living in the past, conjuring any one (not just former partners) who represents past to the detriment of current relationships and current life as it ?
Is the anxiety resulting from their inability to devalue and discard the introject a possible reason why they would have already engaged with a new/recycled intimate partner?
I had an incident where when I ignored a certain person ( I was kind of in love with her) she tried to malign my image in public. There are many instances where I could figure out this person is very abnormal. She called me a stalker when I just decided to call it off and I didn't reply her in public chat. It all happened online. Does people with NPD does these kind of things? Please enlightening me, I can't get it out of my head.
This has helped me get my closer. I broke up with him. He was in shock. Than he tried to get me back I seen how he was just like what you said. And tried to do the reverse discard on me. But I just told him it is completely over the second time. I know he's doing the love bombing again after the divorce can you do a video for after divorcing a narcissist and how to handle all of the games that they play.
Sam, I admit this is hard to grasp. Can you clarify why the narcissist needs the external object even though he has the snapshot? Why not just interact exclusively with the snapshot? Why keep the real person around?
Dear professor Vaknin, thank you so much for all you do and share. I have a question - why after trying to get rid of the snapshot and failing, then discarding a real person the NPD are hoovering afterwards? How the process goes further? Thank youl.
It is a good haircut for you. More importantly the information you have given is much much needed. I’m coming to a head on collision with someone I’ve been with for many years and realize what is finally happening. All this time I was so confused between dementia or is he borderline ?
Regarding the BPD-NPD shadow-dance -- You stated previously that the narcissist must always have a partner to live vicariously through. Although, you have also stated that borderlines & narcissists can make wonderful couples. Yet, wouldn't a borderline, somewhat like the narcissist, have a schizoid core without clear direction? If so, neither party would be capable of living vicariously through the other. Perhaps this is part of the infinite regression you had mentioned. If you could elaborate further, that would be greatly appreciated. I'm wondering how a relationship of this kind could truly flourish long-term. "If you put two mirrors facing each other, look what happens; infinite regression. You never get anywhere. The depth is infinite. And that is what I call, the hall of mirrors."
"You're not the man I fell in love with." Uh, yes I am. In fact, I'm even better than that man. You just can't see it. Your loss. "Well, I, wait around the train station Waitin' for that train Take me, take me... Take me away From this... Lonesome town Lonesome town Too bad you don't love me no more, girl Too bad your people put me down Yeah, hey hey... Tears burnin' me Tears burnin' me in my eyes Way down, way down in my soul Tears burnin' me way down in my heart Too bad you don't love me no more, girl Too bad you and me had to part Had to part Well, I, hear my train a comin'..."
I was the one that left the narcissist male a lot of times because it became all about him. I do have a lot mother qualities...When he asked me out my gut feeling said not to I said no 3 times and he would not accept it. I guess he already had a snapshot of me. I was always the one ending the relationships. He said he owned me and another word he said was that it was not all about me. Can a narcissists male also be a borderline?
Hello professor, can you explain why are some narcissist convinced that they are emotionally empathic? Is there a possibilty that they are authentically empathic but towards objects that does not interfere with their narcissism directly? For example: towards objects (people or animals) in media and litterature. In other words can they feel emotional empathy in their fantasy? Thank you
hi Sam, thank you so much for the work that you do. I was wondering if it is possible for the partner of a narcissist to force the narcissist to separate and individuate from his actual mother? for example, if during the discard phase the partner redirects the negative energy toward the still living mother, can the narcissist achieve separation individuation later in life?
Aloha🌺 While I cannot offer a definitive answer to your question, I can share my anecdotal insight. Years ago, I left a man who fits the description of a narcissist (a concept I came across months ago) who continues a trail of destruction in my life. He was beaten and berated by his mother throughout his childhood, at 17 he ran away and lived in a shack in a friend's backyard to escape. He told me he had worked through the abuse, confronted her (she denied it, most likely narcissistic herself) and he went on to become highly successful, including career, friends and other pursuits. We were together for years and he entrenched himself in my life, only to turn on me in what I experienced as a Napoleonic siege. Unaware of narcissism, I still told him his horrid treatment of me belonged to his mother. I had treated him with kindness and affection. Though he is fully aware of his mother's abuse, he claims he forgave her and protects her. Narcissism is arrested development emotionally, love and pain are deeply intertwined in every cell of his body, every inkling in his mind. He is completely divorced from this truth, on a deeper level. The connection of love was never made, he dwells in an illusionary prison which he tried to drag me into, as well. I think it would take a severe trauma, like a near death experience or what Vaknin calls 'mortification' which is a form of trauma, like severe public humiliation for even a slight possibility of a cure or individuation to occur. This man has even identified himself as a narcissist, just recently. He knows all the terminology and is very intelligent, yet it has made him worse. Consider Vaknin, himself, he is highly intelligent, written and lectured on narcissism for more than two decades, yet he is still a narcissist. Keep asking questions, though the search make lead you through a unending maze!!
My understanding from this video is as follow (not sure if it’s correct):
1). Narc has an idealized snapshot of you;
2). and he coerced you to be his mother;
3). then he needs to get rid of you as a revenge to his mother who he was not able to separate from;
4). However he has “object constancy” and is unable to get his perfect snapshot of you (or others) from his mind;
5). Therefore he would devalue you-disrespect, humiliate, upset and hurt you in order to devalue the snapshot…
6). In case you leave the Narc after being devalued/discarded he will hoover you back because he cannot get rid of the original snapshot he took of you (he has anxiety when losing any of his snapshots);
7). But if you return to the Narc after being idealized/love-boomed again, the vicious cycle repeats itself-meaning he will want to separate from the “mother/you” again;
Conclusion: ultimately you are either abused and devalued permanently or you leave permanently with “NO CONTACT”
the narc has "introject and object inconstancy"
Thank you so much for the detail,
@@mimi42428 Can you explain those two to me? It's just that I understand English better if I read it vs. if I listen to it.
Not always correct. You view a narc as a partner, while it can be anyone, a parent, a sibling, a friend, a boss etc etc. Scenarios differ.
but how does this work with mortification? my narc ex did this to me, but because we have a child together, no contact isn't possible. He now seems to interact with me as the "devalued" snapshot, never the idealized snapshot.
I caught my ex hoovering an old gf from childhood. She is now 50+ yrs older & handicapped. I couldn’t figure out why he would create an affair with her after 50 yrs. Now I realize he was having a fantasy with the snapshot of youth, not the women she is now. Its mind blowing how they do this.
Now that I understand the concept I do not feel bad about being devalued and discarded.
Here I am again, on my Vakninflix mission to understand the complex mind of the narcissist. Thank you for sharing Professor. Nice hair cut.
Haha likewise!
The haircut is nice 👌🏾 yes, these synthesize all other information full circle and give me a firm understanding that they CANNOT change and are mentally ill. Point taken. 🫣
This makes so much sense. I could never get my ex to see that I was NOT disrespecting him, that I was NOT trying to hurt him and never had. He continued to believe his inner image of me no matter how many years I spent proving those accusations wrong.
It's like this with narcissist I think because they think a certain way so they don't understand that we can think differently than them it's projection
@@taraarrington2285 they think that everyone is like them.
Sometimes it's their delusions and to obtain an emotional response/fuel. The accusations seem often to be confessions about the very things they do themselves so they accuse you instead of taking responsibility.
@@NarcHark888 yes it's projection. Just whatever they projected you be sure not to own it or absorb it and then it has nowhere to land it has to go right back to them.
@@NarcHark888exactly!!
I figured that out years ago!
I wonder if this is why i always felt my ex narc was still hung up on his exes, even long before i ever had evidence. I had never experienced being so preoccupied with a partners exes or female friends until the relationship with him. I think I somehow absorbed this information energetically. It makes so much sense now, why i was fixated on this, learning that they keep a harem of internal objects in their minds that include all of their exes. Fascinating stuff.
I just dealt with this with a covert narcissist. I began to start working more, making more money than him, began the process of opening my own business he started to complain I was talking about my business too much, he began to devalue me everyday. If I shared photos with him of a house I was buying he refused to comment. I stopped arguing with him, I began to respond assertively and not respond with emotions which only upset him more. He began to get angrier until he decided to discard me. I blocked him and went no contact. I noticed the more my life was improving, the more money I began to make he began to try to gain more power over me and insult me more daily and try to triangulate. I wish him well, but I refuse to be controlled.
So recognizable! Same story here. Good job:)
Wow!! You ARE 100% correct!
I kept wondering where all my pics are disappearing to….. all my albums, boxes of pics, missing…. He made sure I was in no photos with him & his family and if I was they are gone!!!
It all makes sense now….
I’m not leaving…. He’s trying to force me out of my home by treating me like a piece of crap.
But I don’t let it bother me…. For years before I knew what he was it would upset me greatly…. I would beg & plead for him to tell me what was wrong and he would not talk, ever!!!
But, everything you say to a “T” is 100% correct. I’ve lived it for over 30 years!
He’s trying to force me out…..
i found out a lot of things he did that are Federal Offenses
And if I need to go there, I will.
No fool over here anymore!
TYSVM Sam Vaknin, You are my therapist.❤
Christy, I've done exactly what you're doing now for 46 yrs, until he tried to kill me- twice. He ended up in prison. Get your stuff and go now.
This stuff is more deeper than a rabbit hole! Thank you Professor!
So after having abused and discarded so many partners in his life, there must be a huge snapshot album in the narcissists mind....
Yes, I have questions for this place too - is getting rid of external object equal to getting rid of its snapshot or there is an eternal internal snapshot gallery? The latter would explain why narcissists are pinging through the years, like checking a backup copy - are there still files available 😅
Im guessing that's the case, that the narc has a whole album of snapshots lol. I've heard this called the narc harem (lots of videos on UA-cam on it). He has a list ef exes that he cycles back to once in a while. My ex husband who is a narc was contacting his old high school girlfriend (he is a cheater) so that rings true for me that he can't get rid of those introjects.
think of a large man who has not outgrown the age of 2 that is the narcissist
@@VanillaBabyGirl81 there is an eternal internal snapshot. All relationships are eternal.
@@jenniferweese3606 yes, this is the way they do
Finally someone explaining Narcissism through Melanie Klien's theories and defenses. They are the most complicated but it makes sense why Narcissist's psyche is also complicated and beyond comprehension for most.
I extensely work with Survivors of Narcissistic abuse and most of it is explaining to them that how the abuse has nothing to do with the survivors instead is about the complexities held by Narcissists in their psyche since childhood.
Where or how do you find someone who will be able to help survivors of a narcissist or Narcissistic abuse please?
@@alexischristian4004, narcissism is not a nationality, religion or ideology, so please do not capitalize it.
You seem lighter, happier than when I first discovered your videos. I really enjoy watching your talks and sharing them with friends who are dealing with partners who have these issues. I was able to extricate myself from a toxic friendship a few years ago with your help, thank you.
No one needs this level of psychological drama in their life. It’s great and interesting to read up on. But in actual real life, no one needs this level of mentally I’ll drama in their lives.
Just move so far on and so fast and deal with healthy people
I totally agree but there are people who have already experienced this in their lives and are still going through such traumas. It is nearly impossible for those who experienced to forget all and just move on as if nothing had happened. I wish I didn't go through this drama (this video was very precise description of what I had gone through). Yet I appreciate the fact that I could almost 'read the narcissist's mind'. It feels as if the mystery has revealed why the narcissist behaved the way he did. I don't have to devalue myself based on his 'snapshot' that's only in his mind.
I got away after 11 years of this and these videos help me stay away. Thank you
Remain indifferent and continue moving FORWARD!!
🎯🎯
I am so glad that these videos and knowledge are out in the open for free. More and more I understand my ex-girlfriend whose behavior was shocking me to the core. I broke up with her when she disrespected me in a very painful way. First I was angry and confused, then I learned about NPD and was angry at myself for ignoring the red flags. Now it makes me sad. Why NPD is so difficult to treat?
Why do we always ignore red flags I've always ignored red flags too and it's always the same pattern you know love bombing devaluation discard and then whatever I get myself together here they come
Because individuals with NPD are completely unable of introspection. Their defense mechanisms to avoid such are so incredibly hardwired that it makes them nearly impossible to treat, if not completely.
In order to change and become a healthy person you've got to be self aware and accept you're wrong sometimes and take accountability. They are just not capable of doing so. Utterly emotionally stunted.
I'm sorry you're going through this. For us neurotypicals is traumatizing to grasp this concept but radical acceptance is necessary to not prolong the misery they bring and how it breaks you. One day at the time pal..
@@jenniferorozco6974they will NEVER be held accountable or admit they were wrong, even if you can prove it!!!!
My heart breaks every time he doesn’t start the video saying “hello shoshanims”
You made perfect sense as my relationship was by FB chats during pandemic lockdown with a schoolmate I knew 60 years ago. In 1963 he was "cruel", his behavior never changed over a lifetime of psychotic endings.
He lives 7700 miles away.
Your "snapshot" discussion revealed exactly what I saw/endured on social media. FB is his father/mother, abundant flying monkeys, where he can remain King of the hill. Yes you made sense using the "snapshot". Thanks.
Thank you very much for your passion to explain this complicated concept. Even ignorant like myself finally catched the idea... Still trying to understand why my private narc behaved this unbelievably weird way... I'm crushed....but I belive that knowledge is a power. One day I will rebuild broken me....I can only feel sorry for people with NPD....hope not to be a target to another one anymore....
Oooooh, just finished listening to your explanation until the end of the video! It's ALL CLEAR now!!! I have never heard such a perfect explanation, and the example you have provided of the snapshot made it clearer and easier to understand!!!! ✨✨✨ Thank you so much Doctor 🙏🏻
I have found Prof Sam to be eerily accurate in everything he says. Thank you Professor. Much appreciated.
While I listen to this video I am going over in my mind everything that happened with my narc and understanding everything totally and completely. Thank you Sam.🙏🏻💫
I wish he would get a whiteboard and draw a chart, so I would understand too. But my second best option is to rewatch the video. Or use my own whiteboard.
The final explanation made since. That must be why they apologize and try to remember the good times after the relationship has ended.
They reach out like they forgot how the relationship fell apart, or choose to ignore why the relationship fell apart.
I wish I would have known this 4 YRS ago, this is some REALLY CRAZY STUFF!! Being in that MIND AND BODY has to be the HARDEST THING!
Same here!!😢
So I’m an idealized extension of himself that he seeks to punish? -married to a Narc 33 years, recently setting boundaries & healing.
You explain things that make perfect sense in my mind. From the day we met to the discard 23 years later, this explains so much in such an eerie way. Thank you for your work.
Prof Vaknin this is exactly the story of my abusive marriage, which is now a distant memory thank God
This is exactly what happened to me in a 17 year marriage. I am a 44 year old male and it is exactly how things happened. Helped me heal a lot to understand how the hell all the madness makes sense to them. As a person that goes thru the phases not understanding anything, this video clarifies it all. My
Loving wife chocked me, threatened to kill me, burn me with hot oil. Etc etc. Not sure if the physical was worst than the psychological. Thanks for organizing the process and you can’t be more right. It’s so empowering to be able to interact now with this person and see all these things happen so in sequence so exactly the same it’s complete madness. There will be no deviation from this pattern from what I see.
Perhaps your wife is comorbid - more than just NPD. Dr. V has videos on other personality disorders and some disorders mix & combine!
Omg i was thinking im only im this world with this patological persona..this is sick.my kids are with that.only 10years i almost kill myself last 4..how you survive 17years??? Im on antidepressant and i move 2000km abroad.
Oh my gosh I'm so sorry to hear this yes this is not okay and anyway any kind of abuse is not okay I have two children with a man who did this kind of stuff to me
My narc always told me I was his sun. Filling him with warmth, light and life. When he discarded me he said he left our sun system like a lost satellite, feeling abandonment and coldness, being alone. Sounds sad for me but I know it’s really how our 2 realities are: I’m still the sun of my own sun system and I don’t need toxic satellites in here. He’s somewhere out there in the vast nothingness of space, forever remembering all the the suns he once orbited, always looking for a new one.
🎯
Good girl
My gosh perfectly explicit execution of what one goes through when involved with the narcissist! Others may try to repeat Prof Vaknin but you sir will never be duplicated! Impossible! Just wow! Always an education. Thank you!
You always talk about mother. And the narcs relationship to mother.but what about the fathers role in the narcs life.
He has stated it has minimal value because the stage of child development that remains stunted the mother is the primary caregiver. The father does not apply because the father is only relevant to later developmental stages.
Deceitfulness is described by the DSM as a psychopathic trait. If I recall correctly, most narcissists tend to confabulate instead of just telling plain lies. However, I read in one of your texts that the exploitative behavior of a narcissist also implies some kind of manipulation, in order to reach his goal, even though being highly dissociative makes him believe that he has found a perfect 'mate' (or a mirror) in the beginning of a relationship with someone who can be idealized. In other words, how could he not have pretended during the love bombing phase, since he lacks both affective empathy and positive emotionality, although he may mislabel his conduct, as if it were well-meant? Cooper also suggests that pathological lying is inherent to covert narcissism. Finally, I'd like to thank you for posting such insightful videos. They've helped me a lot so far.
Lo
Sir,I love your sense of humour❤️
U r still Sam Vaknin after the hair cut AND
I am Still Lingraj After Narcissistic Abuse Survived ONLY because of the help I got from Ur videos.
Thanks so much.
Namaste from Bangalore ,India .🙏🇮🇳💐
Wow you are a gem. You nailed each and every step of my discard with my ex narc
Thank you Prf. Sam Vaknin.
I’m just amazed how you intuitively know all this. I was married to a narcissist/ psychopath for 14 years. He still tries to control me via court.
Unfortunately I got into several more similar situations with narcissistic men and I’m in the process of getting away from another man right now. Your videos have helped me immensely. I am so grateful for you doing this. Just understanding the background of the actions is a huge help to me to have strength to get away. AGAIN. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Damn! Prof. Vaknin you hit the ball out of the park with this video! Thank you so much! Brilliant!
Q: I think my ex is N, but not certain. He idealised his mother and also insisted he was the perfect son. I knew I was idealised early in the relationship, but then later felt I fell severely short in the comparison. I was devalued. I Also felt manipulated at times into performing as she had.
Do Narcissist’s ever idealise
their mothers?
I never got to meet his mother, but a mutual friend said she was controlling and that my ex and her had a kind of oedipus (but certainly not sexual)relationship. Hence no earlier girlfriends were good enough for him.
If a narcissist watched this video, would it resonate with him/her? I mean, do they “get it”? Could they say, “that does happen to me”, or “yeah, feels like that”. However, they can’t stop it. Perhaps, if a narcissist has watched this video and has read this comment/question, they could reply how they related to it. I am curious about the depth of their acknowledgment of understanding it.
No, they'd say "So and so does that" as they project their own negative behavior on others.
They are aware of their BEHAVIORS, but not of their MOTIVATIONS or other psychological dynamics.
I have narcissistic tendencies (especially cerebral NPD) but I'm not officially diagnosed, I am here watching Prof. Sam to help myself to heal.
I was in a relationship with a BPD girl, and the describe process by prof Sam resonate with me, the big picture is the same, maybe some details could be different from person to another.
I ended the relationship with her almost 4 months ago, because she betrayed me several times, and i didn't want to recycle the relationship anymore, I took a decision to help myself to heal.
But it's true, I find it difficult to get rid of the introjects, it's more painful than leaving the real intimate partner.
Prof. Sam if you read this comment, please can you suggest me some books or some of your videos that could help me in my process of healing?
Thank you.
Hair looks great Professor Vaknin, suits you :)
P.s
Great video.. very well explained from start to finish :)
Thank you for your brilliant mind professor Vaknin !! I'm addicted to your videos.
Thank you ! This explanation is very clear and feels exactly like what happened. If I told him I only served as a prop to reenact the unfinished business with his mother, could he even grasp that ?
Nope he won't
New haircut rocks! So the snapshot is forever. The failure is not being able to get you(the snapshot) out their head? It sounds like the narcissist either makes the snapshot perfect resulting in love bombing or all bad resulting in discard/devaluation. The narcissist in their mind controls this idealization or degradation of this snapshot. It makes me think of an artist who might paint a perfectly beautiful picture of nature with bright colors & then destroys by blotting, black paint on it. At anytime the paint 🎨 can dry on the canvas & the artist can make another beautiful picture/snapshot (hovering and or love bombing)
Narcs have lots of ex supplies, so do they keep all of them in their minds? Can they not get any of the previous supplies out of their minds or only the main supplies? The number 1's (as my ex would call me). The older they get, the more supplies they collect, their minds must be over flowing with snapshots of all ex supplies ... what a nightmare for poor old narcky !
Watch my videos.
The ex told me the other day when he has sex with women he sees pictures of all of past supplies flashing before his eyes. I think he had so many relationships in this lifetime that it messes with his mind whenever he tries to have a new relationship. I personally feel he is going crazy lol.
This is a very good perspective of the idealization of the Narcissists 🧠
I'm living this right now. Your videos are very helpful
Really nice haircut! Thanks for todays lesson!
I have watched a lot of your videos on you tube. Thanks! You have helped med a lot in my process of understanding my life with my now EX-husbond (married for 22 years and it has been so many things I couldn’t “grasp” in my mind. He is a covert n and has been leader of the church we were in and positions like that. But at home /alone with him - and our 3 children, now grown ups- he has been so difficult to live with… But, and this is my point of writing here: Though I felt that he in a very long period has discarded and devalued me and I for a long time felt like I was slowly dying, bit after bit,he didn’t move or throw me out. It was me alone who gad to take the decision to leave and (for people in the church and so -and especially his parents!!!) it was a chock and I am “the bad one” !!!
So: he devalued and discarded me “insides” but I had to do the break up (to survive mentally etc). And he still has the ring on his finger and has a lot of “pitty-power” over our kids, who still seems angry at me and dont see me very often. It’s because he keeps saying “we married to death us depart”. And he argues with that promise and will never agree the divorce…that I (alone) has wanted.
How often does that happen, you think? That the narc makes life miserable for the partner but will not take the consequense and agree in divorce etc…
This sounds similar to what happened with my mom & myself. She allowed my father to abuse me as a child and as an adult she did other things that are hard to even speak about because of how shameful they are and continues to try to make me feel like everything is my fault. As a result of this I cut contact with her & my father and now she throws a pity party and tries to use my religion (Christianity) against me by saying I should honor her 🤦♀️ She tells everyone I’m the cruel one for distancing myself but she won’t ever admit any of the harm she did to me. Ever. She tells people a different story and that I am making things up. The final straw for me was when she tried to use my sons to control me… I’m so over it. I don’t feel guilty because I am not going to allow her to continue to abuse and hurt me but sometimes I wonder how can people be this way. I currently struggle with ruminating about all that I’ve been through with my parents.
@@arlette2722 ❤️❤️❤️wish you all the best!!!
I know the ruminating!! It also takes some of my sleep some nights…! The worst thing is when the children are in “the middle of it all” and I’ m so sorry for them, when they are victims of his behavior as well… he doesn’t hit them og anything like that, but they’re often not really allowed to have their own opinion and I know they walk on egshells now when with him. But I can’t og will not force them to be with me. Just try to make my home a place, where they are free to be who they truly are, and can say to me what they want without being afraid … I moved out (from the beautyful place that we build op together… and which I miss, the big garden and so…) in october 2020 and their father seems to still hope I’ m coming back… That will never happen!!
Aloha🌺 I am sorry for the decades of pain and confusion you have endured, especially under the guise of religion. I am Christian and it deeply saddens me how such horrible things are done in God's name which have nothing to with Him and are often evil.
I think the situation you describe happens frequently, narcissists may follow a similar underlying mechanism but they are still individuals with unique mitigating factors in how their pathology manifests. NPD is a 'trauma response' at its core and includes arrested development, emotionally. They enlist others with their highly attuned cognitive abilities and stream of lies. They usually malign those closest to them, constantly redirecting the perceived threat and inflicting projected pain, a child still defending themselves from abuse and rejection (decades later).
Years ago, I left a man who continues to destroy every facet of my life, in ways beyond anything I could have conceived of long ago. During the time we were together, he entrenched himself deep into my life. I thought we were building a life, in reality he was building a prison replete with chains to bind me. When he turned on me, we fought and I eventually left. Most people see him as a suffering, devoted man whose generosity and commitment is unwavering. They have no idea of who he is or what he has done. Narcissists dwell in such a desperate state, they will use any means to maintain their illusion, both the one they portray externally and the one which lies within.
This has happened to me, I filed for a divorce whether he agreed to it or not. I was done and over it mentally, physically and emotionally. There was just no way I'd ever consider going back to that. It was a clean cut, no contact situation and still refuse to 15 years and a completed divorce later. Nope.
Mirjam, I think it is very common for Narcs to force their spouses to be the ones to file for the divorce. This allows them to place the blame for the divorce on the filer, & then they can forever after play the victim of that bad marriage. It’s just the ultimate way for them to not take any responsibility for their marriage break up. The cowards way out! Speak your truth to your inner circle of close friends & family. Let everyone else think whatever they want. Their opinions don’t really matter. The ultimate truth will stand the test of time.
Thank you Professor Vaknin. That Narcissist will be stuck for eternity. I Discarded Him at the beginning of Devaluation and No contact. Hopefully he’s enjoying the miserable game that he had planned for me! Feel bad for the next victim. The next Narcissist will be stuck in his own Trap.?By the way, I love your humor ❤❤
Love the haircut 👌 I'm glad you kept the name.
professor Vaknin, thank you
I just got dumped by a man who I think is a narcissist. He told me how cool I was but that he found someone else hahaha some dissonance there? The new relationship that he is forming is long distance . she is being idealized from afar only to be discarded when they finally meet. What a loser... I can't believe I spent 3 yrs on this guy.
Awesome explanation doc Sam. Complexity is strategically explained by you and no one can do better other than you. Thanks
Is this process something that is pre-planned? In other words, are they aware that they are doing this? Or is it just a vicious and continual self fulfilling prophecy, done on a sub conscious level, that they are somehow oblivious to? Thank you.
Thank you for all that you do, Prof. Vaknin. I was wondering if you have a book list anywhere of novels that truly impacted you or expanded your knowledge meaningfully. Cheers.
Love the hair 😘
Your work is brilliant, a pleasure to listen too. Why can't a narcissist just accept that someone actually loves them for who they whole heartedly are? There must be a way to undo this trauma?
I understand your position, but unfortunately the outcome with a narcissist is inevitable. It is never a happy, fulfilling or healthy relationship with them and will always bring negative results and impact to you. Your best strategy is to remove yourself from any relationship with them and go no contact FOR LIFE. You cannot make a narcissist view love,
Intimacy or a relationship the same as you do. They will never think or connect or love like we do. Good luck
Brilliantly exposed Susanne, from my own experience, one step forward and they pull you right back two steps, they are bound to be addicted to chaos, no matter how much love you give them
He has a another video on here that explains how a narcissist can get better. The narc has to go through a process of mortification in which he has to experience an abrupt public or traumatic humiliation. He has to be humbled.
@@cocomairedo u know the name of the video?
@@reneehyslip4549 I don’t remember. He has tons of videos. From watching his videos, I’ve gathered that he doesn’t think personality disorders are really curable, but the person can become self aware enough to protect others from himself as he has done.
Very well explained. Completely clarity.
Your haircut is nice but more hair is much nicer.😊
Hello Dr. Vaknin
Thank you for your informative video.
Like your new haircut.
How ironic when you said he devalue me in order to sepearate from his mother(me the partner beeing the mother) if that is true why did the foul go right back to living with the dead mother? He was 33 when I broke up with him after our 12 year relashionship he's 41 now lives with mommy.
What happen when narcissist mother die? Does this work for him as separation fase ? How it change his behavior with past and future partener?
Thank you beforehand!🙏
I descovered acute narcissistic traits in my husband when his adoptive mother passed away. He consider her as his true mother. His biological mother is still alive but not much contact and he know her from childhood (adoption between brothers familles).
Can you please illustrate more about splitting please? Thank you 🙏🏻
#clarity.
Thank you, Professor.This made sense,utterly.
fresh cut ! ... Looking spiffy my guy 👍
Really helpful Sam I am beginning to understand. It matches my lived experience. Thanks
Prof. You hit the nail right on the. HEAD.wow man wow.
Understood... Every word makes total sense.
I am borderline. I had a 18.5 year marriage to a overt narcissist and a 7.5 relationship with a covert that I ended that left me feeling gutted for several months especially when I heard she was seeing someone new. Stumbling onto some videos about narcissism helped shed light on what I’d been through which helped snap me out of thinking of her night and day. I realized that a lot of of what I was listening to was completely one sided and the more I heard about codependency the more I understood how messed up I am. My question is can therapy ever help a borderline recover a sense of self? Or is learning coping mechanisms so our avatar can better blend in the best we can hope for?
Hello! Fellow borderline 😊 Stumbled across your comment and, though this may not be helpful to you and maybe in the last year since this comment things have gotten better, but I fully recovered a sense of self after therapy! I know others that have as well and it’s a very possible thing. BPD can fully recover with the right treatment, you aren’t messed up at all. Hoping things are a bit better now?
This is profoundly accurate. every time I watch one of Sam's video iam enlighten.
Thank You. The best explanation ever.
thank you for sharing your knowledge. This is really helpful
Are you saying sir that when narcissists hoover anyone, they will repeat the same toxic circle ? Because they still somewhat have a false " perfect idealization" image of a significant other. Please correct me if m wrong Doctor. Thank you 🙏🏻
Mr. Vaknin, thank you for your immensely valuable information on this subject. I've seen several of your videos. Putting some things together, I want to see if I understood well: behind the narcissist's inability to come to a completion of his original separation through separation of an intimate partner-even when he physically separates from them-lies in the fact that he cannot separate from the introject of this partner (and mother). Did I understand well that they cannot get rid of the introject(s) because of a giant fear of abandonment? If not so, what then causes the inability to get rid of the introjects? And, do less wounded people have introjects too and do they go about them differently? Merry Christmas you!
Could this be why some prefer living in the past, conjuring any one (not just former partners) who represents past to the detriment of current relationships and current life as it ?
Is the anxiety resulting from their inability to devalue and discard the introject a possible reason why they would have already engaged with a new/recycled intimate partner?
Thank you for your explanations, Professor!
I had an incident where when I ignored a certain person ( I was kind of in love with her) she tried to malign my image in public. There are many instances where I could figure out this person is very abnormal. She called me a stalker when I just decided to call it off and I didn't reply her in public chat. It all happened online. Does people with NPD does these kind of things? Please enlightening me, I can't get it out of my head.
New haircut makes you look younger Professor :)
very well explained! and understood! Thank you.
This has helped me get my closer. I broke up with him. He was in shock. Than he tried to get me back I seen how he was just like what you said. And tried to do the reverse discard on me. But I just told him it is completely over the second time. I know he's doing the love bombing again after the divorce can you do a video for after divorcing a narcissist and how to handle all of the games that they play.
Very well explained. Thank you for sharing this! ❤
Nice haircut....:)))
I think your hair cut looks really good and I love your videos and your voice Catherine from the uk 😊💐
Sam, I admit this is hard to grasp. Can you clarify why the narcissist needs the external object even though he has the snapshot? Why not just interact exclusively with the snapshot? Why keep the real person around?
Because he needs to separate-individuate from the external object time and again. Watch my videos on hoovering.
Nice haircut Dr. Vaknin!! 👍🏼
Dear professor Vaknin, thank you so much for all you do and share. I have a question - why after trying to get rid of the snapshot and failing, then discarding a real person the NPD are hoovering afterwards? How the process goes further? Thank youl.
So well
explained …. THANK YOU!
"RICH!!...if the narcissist is Jewish. "🤣🤣🤣
Thank you Sam.
It is a good haircut for you.
More importantly the information you have given is much much needed. I’m coming to a head on collision with someone I’ve been with for many years and realize what is finally happening. All this time I was so confused between dementia or is he borderline ?
We go from a lovely white unicorn to a black unicorn! This makes so much sense; thank you!
Its really hard this understand this stuff. Its not just in a romantic relationship either. It happens in the family dynamics as well.
Regarding the BPD-NPD shadow-dance -- You stated previously that the narcissist must always have a partner to live vicariously through. Although, you have also stated that borderlines & narcissists can make wonderful couples. Yet, wouldn't a borderline, somewhat like the narcissist, have a schizoid core without clear direction? If so, neither party would be capable of living vicariously through the other. Perhaps this is part of the infinite regression you had mentioned. If you could elaborate further, that would be greatly appreciated. I'm wondering how a relationship of this kind could truly flourish long-term.
"If you put two mirrors facing each other, look what happens; infinite regression. You never get anywhere. The depth is infinite. And that is what I call, the hall of mirrors."
Watch today's video.
"You're not the man I fell in love with." Uh, yes I am. In fact, I'm even better than that man. You just can't see it.
Your loss.
"Well, I, wait around the train station
Waitin' for that train
Take me, take me...
Take me away
From this... Lonesome town
Lonesome town
Too bad you don't love me no more, girl
Too bad your people put me down
Yeah, hey hey...
Tears burnin' me
Tears burnin' me in my eyes
Way down, way down in my soul
Tears burnin' me way down in my heart
Too bad you don't love me no more, girl
Too bad you and me had to part
Had to part
Well, I, hear my train a comin'..."
I was the one that left the narcissist male a lot of times because it became all about him. I do have a lot mother qualities...When he asked me out my gut feeling said not to I said no 3 times and he would not accept it. I guess he already had a snapshot of me. I was always the one ending the relationships. He said he owned me and another word he said was that it was not all about me. Can a narcissists male also be a borderline?
yes
So, I am "his" forever ;). Let it be.
Hello professor, can you explain why are some narcissist convinced that they are emotionally empathic? Is there a possibilty that they are authentically empathic but towards objects that does not interfere with their narcissism directly? For example: towards objects (people or animals) in media and litterature. In other words can they feel emotional empathy in their fantasy?
Thank you
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Wow !! Amazing! Well said .😍
hi Sam, thank you so much for the work that you do. I was wondering if it is possible for the partner of a narcissist to force the narcissist to separate and individuate from his actual mother? for example, if during the discard phase the partner redirects the negative energy toward the still living mother, can the narcissist achieve separation individuation later in life?
Aloha🌺 While I cannot offer a definitive answer to your question, I can share my anecdotal insight. Years ago, I left a man who fits the description of a narcissist (a concept I came across months ago) who continues a trail of destruction in my life. He was beaten and berated by his mother throughout his childhood, at 17 he ran away and lived in a shack in a friend's backyard to escape.
He told me he had worked through the abuse, confronted her (she denied it, most likely narcissistic herself) and he went on to become highly successful, including career, friends and other pursuits. We were together for years and he entrenched himself in my life, only to turn on me in what I experienced as a Napoleonic siege. Unaware of narcissism, I still told him his horrid treatment of me belonged to his mother. I had treated him with kindness and affection.
Though he is fully aware of his mother's abuse, he claims he forgave her and protects her. Narcissism is arrested development emotionally, love and pain are deeply intertwined in every cell of his body, every inkling in his mind. He is completely divorced from this truth, on a deeper level. The connection of love was never made, he dwells in an illusionary prison which he tried to drag me into, as well. I think it would take a severe trauma, like a near death experience or what Vaknin calls 'mortification' which is a form of trauma, like severe public humiliation for even a slight possibility of a cure or individuation to occur.
This man has even identified himself as a narcissist, just recently. He knows all the terminology and is very intelligent, yet it has made him worse. Consider Vaknin, himself, he is highly intelligent, written and lectured on narcissism for more than two decades, yet he is still a narcissist. Keep asking questions, though the search make lead you through a unending maze!!
Great haircut🥰