He is winning in Denver ... in the NBA ... 'nuff said. His best help is injured half the time. I think getting the 6 seed with a bunch of scrubs and taking a game from the Warriors was one of the greatest hoop accomplishments ever.
Denver has the biggest advantage in the league with that altitude. Poor ownership can change but Denver should always be a winning team with that altitude. They just have morons who ignore the altitude. CB drafting a low athletic back up point guard shows the disconnect, then there is Malone who let's Murray snail pace the ball up the court... while furious George won with ty Lawson as his best player... running in denver. The stupidity in Denver is epic.
The biggest difference btw Jokic and other greats is that with his efficiency and assists he can put on monster numbers and leave room for teammates to score 30+, if they do it's game over.
@@Brickwilliams few if any consider bird top 5... My point was ther are other greats that are efficient like jokic, maybe not quite as efficient, but bird also was a perimeter player, so efficiency should be a bit lower.
Jokic being the best offensive player is pure racism, because it implies that he's a bad defender! He literally reads plays and coaches his defense accordingly, grabbing most rebounds, deflecting, stealing, and he doesn't challenge every rim is because referees call most fouls at the rim! He's not just OK defender, he's a special team defender using his IQ as his greatest weapon !
i thought that would be it last season but him putting up more ridiculous numbers early this season? i was floored! and also i like that he is durable also not prone to injury
Agreed, though Magic had so much talent around him that it negates some of that sense of him as individually great (though I was a huge fan of Magic going back to MiSt). Bird had less talent around him and did things with even less athleticism than Jokic (who consistently covers more ground than any other non-guard, at altitude, with surprising speed but 0 hops). Birds run from the start of his career to his back going bad was truly elite...but he just never popped on the screen the same way Magic or MJ did.
@@ChristopherM720 Bird had better Defensive Rating than Patrick Ewing....Bird was everywhere ahead of time....he was a menace on D and an assassin on O
As a Gen Xer, I grew up watching MJ. I was 11 when he won his first title. I wasn’t around for most of Kareem’s career, but I know his stats well. And I’ve obviously been around for the entire career of LeBron and Kobe. Having said all that, the correct answer is Jokic once this season ends.
If Jokic stays healthy this year and finishes with a stat line anything like what it is now, from a straight stats line, yes. I'd pay more money to go back to my own Xer days and watch prime Jordan again, but Jokic for what he does with the ball would be second, then Magic, Kobe and LeBron. I'm a bit older than you and saw still great Kareem and he was great but not in the way MJ, Jokic or Kobe were (granted Kobe has Shaq for a lot of it). Kareem needed Magic to start winning titles in LA. Jordan needed Pippen & Grant/Rodman. Still waiting for Jokic's first all-star playing with him in the starting five.
@@user-wu8sj3ee3d nah, Malone is excellent...look what he has accomplished...Put Lebron in his prime where Joker is and the results an NOT as good imo. Why you say that?
I'm a firm believer that MJ is the G.O.A.T, even if I see valid arguments for cats like Wilt, Kareem, and to some degree Kobe. Cause context matters. Like how LeBron was set up and helped to achieve the stats he's accrued since he was drafted and it's artificially inflated em, how the dead ball era makes players like Kobe look less lethal than they were, how Iverson's efficiency was better than it looks on paper, how some players have had to grind and work a lot harder than others and imo that should factor in, etc. But even with all that said the context considered, what Joker is doing is absolutely crazy and it's sickening that the league and media are more concerned with some ridiculous, contrived father-son moment between a past-his-prime, propped-up roidhead and a nepobaby that was barely high school ready, much less NBA. Makes me wonder why I care anymore when they clearly don't.
@ that’s actually not true he plays defense. Did you not see him lock down Shai last week? Also last year Denver had one of the better defenses in the league, and he played a big part in that. Will he win the DPOY? Obviously never. But he’s not the weak defender many casuals think he is.
@@Q.B.2.L.B.look at his defensive box +/-. look at his advanced defensive statistics in general by crafted nba. he is an above average defender. look at the way he plays the game, and actually watch his movement. he is only a below average rim protector, because he cant afford getting into foul trouble because he has to carry the team offensively and isnt as athletically gifted as AD or Bam or something like that. tell me where on defense exactly he is a HUGE defensive liability
Yes he is probably a much nicer teammate than them. And no Basketball is not about being a better teammate, it’s about winning. And getting over the obstacles to win. And if being mean makes your teammates better and it helps you get 6 rings then MJ was right.
Thank God someone made video like this. I've been saying for 2 years that Jokic the greatest 3 seasons in a row in NBA history and after that, next 2 were as good as previous 3 and I've been saying soo far this season that he has statisticly the greatest 5 seasons in a row ever. And now someone made video about that.
Those are some very very impressive numbers that this young man has been putting up I had no clue he had $2,000 points 1,000 rebounds and 500 assists man that's some hell of a numbers
What I do not get is this obsession that Americans have over who is the greatest whatever then judging them by their team mates. Repeatedly I read comments like “If he gets another ring” “if he gets another two rings” then I will consider him for discussion. “He’s not even in my top 15 as he has won nothing” It is absolute rank stupidity to make these comments when talking about somebody in a TEAM game. Jokic’s personal stats and the statistical fact that he lifts his teammates to have career high stats tell you clearly he is not one of the greatest but actually the greatest all round player the game has seen. Even though he is only halfway through his career.
That's why I never count Chips in when discussing GOATs. Dan Marino, specially based on the era, is probably still the greatest QB (or Manning who really only won 1, the second being all his defense). Marino couldn't tackle or make kicks, so their lack of SB can't be on him. Likewise Dominic Hasek for his career until he went to Red wings. He was already the greatest goalie, he just needed guys to score some. Lebron, Kareem, Kobe, even MJ always had other All-Stars with them, real talent. Jokic has played with 0 AS in stating 5 during this period. He raises his teammates to new heights but, they all have ceilings. Stars aren't everything, but when you see stats plus making everyone better, that makes you stop and realize a player's greatness. That said, MJ probably made Pippen look a whole lot better than he actually was.
@@ChristopherM720 I commented on another one of your comments because you don't seem to realize the talent around MJ. Bro, Pippen was in the conversation for MVP voting multiple times. Dennis Rodman was a 7 time rebounding champ and 2 time Defensive player of the year. Ron Harper averaged over 20 pts a game when he joined the Bulls... Kerr led the league in 3pt% on MJ's Bulls the 94-95 season. Horace Grant was a beast. Kukoc was a 6th man of the year and had the 2nd highest offensive rating in the 94-95 season. Bill Cartwright was great.. MJ played with multiple HOF's and great players of the time. Jokic doesn't even play with all stars lol. MJ never won with teams like Jokic has played with, none of the all time greats did. If Jokic had just a Pippen on his team, who even knows how many chips he would have by now. MJ didn't make Pippen better, he was already one of the best players in the entire league. Pippen had to take a back seat when playing with Mike.
Since 2020 he has lead the league every year in win shares, box plus minus, varp and per. Also in true shooting in 2023 which is absurd for his volume. Never played with an allstar his whole career. This guy is seriously approaching top 5 all time territory.
Great video highlighting the guy who is playing better basketball than anybody right now. But all time? There is a plain and simple old school metric that isn’t getting much mention: winning. And it’s a personal choice. Who are the best players? They guys putting up the biggest stat lines? Or the guys leading their teams to championships? Chamberlain put up the craziest numbers ever up until now, but head to head, he was 1-7 against Russell in the playoffs. Russell had lower numbers, but led his teams to 11 NBA Titles and won 5 MVPs at a time when the players voted (not the press). Who do you feel was better? At the end of his career, we can look back and measure Jokic’s greatness against the best players in history. Doing so now, while he is still in his 20s and has only won one title is very premature. Personally, when I look at the all time greats, I see a list of guys who all embraced hard work and intense training. Jokic likes going home in the offseason, drinking beer, and riding horses. He has worked harder than most of us ever will. But I don’t see any enthusiasm in him to work that hard for enough years to win 4, 5, or 6 titles. And so, if were using winning titles as a measure of greatness, it is very doubtful he will catch the all time greats. And that isn’t to say I don’t like Jokic, he is one of my favorite players. His style, his self-effacing sense of humor, how this guy has accomplished everything he has and remains as humble as he does, is a very endearing quality. So I cheer him on and marvel as he puts up crazy numbers and changes the roll and potential of big men in basketball forever. And who knows? Maybe the elite performance demands of diet, training, and rest will be a lifestyle he embraces enough to keep playing at a high enough level to win more titles? I will definitely be cheering him on if he does…
On all lists Jokic is the only one who makes average players in to a great players. Add to that his amazing shooting and amazing passing and amazing efficiency, before he turned 30, HE IS THE GOAT. I dont know how many records has left for him to break
@@ritchierich6133 I would 1st pick Jokic in my team and if we are honest if Jokic was black and born American he would have 4 MVPs in 4 years and media would kiss his ass
@milosstefanovic6603 i agree with you 100%. but i would pick Jordan 1st, no matter what era rules. Jokic or Luka would be my 2nd pick with the rules of this era, 80' or 90's era rules, they wouldn't even be in my top 5.
The hardest part in evaluating Jokic is the lack of multiple championships. But that's where his doing it in Denver (not a destination for players), in the tighter salary cap era, with a so-so GM at best comes in to play. Also, far more great teams now than during Jordan, Kobe or LeBron's peak. It's why we don't see repeat champs and in fact a different team every year since 2019. I can't hold lack of talent around him against Jokic, in fact it shows how great he is...he's made a team around him that is very talent capped as good as they are.
@@ChristopherM720 Lets be honest, if Jokic was black and American born he would have 4 MVPs in 4 years and he has a ring in DENVER. How many rings he would have if he was on Lakers? Y guess we will never know. Everyone was saying Westbrook should retire, that its over for him, but if Westbrook starts to shine it will be one more proof that Jokic is in a dimension on its own because after his passes receiver always have an easy points
If he stays healthy, average a 30-10-10 this season and denver is atleast a 3 seed, then he should be the MVP. Voter's fatigue has no place in this conversation.
In 30 years from now they will say players like Joker and Luka were plumbers when arguing with Lebron fans on why their best player is better than Lebron and will say Lebrons era was weak. Then Lebron fans will look back and realize how ignorant they were in the Goat conversation with Jordan. Jordan is the Goat, hands down and no one is even close. But if i was a betting man, i would put my money on Joker or Luka to take the throne from Jordan.
The greatest five years stretch of leadership is done by Bill Russell, who won five rings in a row and it’s not even close. He literally won eight titles in a row and winning a title as a player/coach is the greatest achievement in basketball. I don’t care what anyone says. And he won two years in a row and retired.
Stat wise, no one, not even Jordan comes close to wilt. Dude averaged 37 28 in his first season and won MVP as a rookie. He had a season where he averaged 50 pts a game while grabbing 25 rebounds. There is no 5 year stretch in the history of sports that can compare to what wilt did, definitely not jokic. It sounds good but they don't call wilt the record book for nothing
Jordan was a bum. Dude just jumped in the air, waited for the defender to drop , then shot . Anyone could do what Jordan did if they could hang in the air for 9 seconds. No skill all talent . Just like LeBron, bull rushing the rim. Neither had anything on bird, magic, or Hakeem. Those were the real best evers.. not the guys who excelled on talent alone
@ Jokic is definitely one of the greatest ever but when we talk Jordan we talk the greatest ever. Jokic need a couple more accolades in the winning department then I definitely believe he’s in the convo
When you said Jokic led his team without no other All-stars to the 6th seed (when he played without Murray and MPJ), you need to understand that he never in his career played with an all-star, everything he did is playing with average, below average, fringe, and not nba level players.
If we're going by MVPs, Bill Russell has the all-time best stretch. 1961-1963 and 1965 (3 in a row, 4 out of 5, then add 1958). Hope Joker has more going for him than THAT - he's not even matched Bird (3 in a row) or Wilt (also 3 in a row). He's also not playing against SERIOUS defenses.
Wilt, MJ and Jokic are such different and elevating players they are hard to compare. But they indeed did things no one else has done. I will always say Jordan is the GOAT in part bc off his competition. Wilt...I mean, 100 points...dominated everything, but never had the team around him hence the Celtics plethora of titles. But Jokic is among the best rebounders I've ever seen, arguably top 5 best post players, and the most elite passer I've ever seen. At his size. And he's never had a starting 5 all-star player. That's simply amazing. Lebron? Kobe? If they played with less talent it might have elevated them in my mind. Jokic won a title with zero bench and a starting 5 that had Murray as its best player after him. Not that Lebron and Kobe aren't great, but talent around you makes you look better.
But Wilt DID lead the league in Rebounds and Assist in the same season: 67-68, while averaging 25 PPG and was MVP of the finals. For the first 8 years of his career, Wilt was both the best offensive and best defensive player in the league. Awards don’t mean shit, as Jordan’s DPOTY shows. What matters is what being on the floor means to your team defensively. (Wilt once blocked 24 shots and had 10 steals in the same game).
Lol clearly dont know basketball. Wilts stats will never be matched. Idc if your in your prime age and super athletic and playing against and with 1st graders. You will never average 50 points, 25 rebounds and 9 assist. So pleasestop it. Wilt no matter when he played it will never be matched against any competition. @kenw2225
It was a different game back then. I checked the rosters of every NBA team for one of Wilt’s MVP seasons and there was only 1 other 7- footer, who wasn’t even a starter ( I forget his name)
@KellyMcGrath-t4y look at the average height back wen Wilt played compared to now. Maybe a 2 inch difference and u have to take account to medicine, equipment, the climate of the world back then and they was mostly taking bus to games and regular hotels. If this generation played back then the way they are pampered they would've quit.
My favorite player scent Bird/Magic and they are in my top 5. I would put Jokic in the top 20 and close to that 10 mark. I just thing you need 2 Championships to crack the top 10 and 3 to crack the top 5. Championships is the true measure of greatness. If Championships don't matter I put in in that top 5.
Nuggets should be investing all their money finding a talent that will complement Jokic's. Man needs some serious help. Murray and AD is not that consistent, especially this season.
NBA players with at least 15 major league awards and trophies within a 5 year span (Championship, Finals MVP, regular season MVP, All-Star selection, All-Star MVP, All-NBA team selection, DPOY, NBA All-Defensive team selection, NBA Most Improved Player, Rookie of the Year, NBA All-Rookie team selection, Regular season leader in one of PPG, RPG, APG, SPG, BPG) 36 Michael Jordan ('92-'93, '96-'98) 24 Kobe Bryant ('06-'10) 23 LeBron James ('09-'13) 23 Dwight Howard ('08-'12) 22 Bill Russell ('61-'65) 22 Hakeem Olajuwon ('93-'97) 22 Julius Erving *(ABA)* ('72-'76) 22 Chris Paul ('11-'15) 21 Larry Bird ('82-'86) 21 Shaquille O'Neal ('00-'04) 21 Kevin Garnett ('04-'08) 21 Moses Malone ('79-'83) 20 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar ('71-'75) 20 Tim Duncan ('02-'06) 20 Giannis Antetokounmpo ('19-'23) 20 David Robinson ('91-95) 20 Allen Iverson ('01-'05) 20 John Stockton ('91-'95) 20 Scottie Pippen ('92-'96) 19 Wilt Chamberlain ('61-'65) 18 Jason Kidd ('99-'03) 17 Magic Johnson ('82-'86) 17 Steph Curry ('15-'19) 17 Gary Payton ('94-'98) 15 Kevin Durant ('14-'18) 15 Nikola Jokic ('20-'24) 15 Russell Westbrook ('15-'19) 15 Anthony Davis ('14-'18) Career total 1. Michael Jordan 70 2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 68 3. LeBron James 65
Kinda unfair for Jordan to have a break in his 5 year stretch even tho he didn’t play in 94 and barely in 95. All the other players played for 5 in a row. For Jordan’s you should use 88-92 instead or 89-93 depending on which is more.
Jokic dominates in the advanced stats like Player Efficiency Rating, Win Shares, Offensive Win Shares, Box Plus/Minus, Offensive Box Plus/Minus, Value Over Replacement Player where he's been 1st in ALL OF THEM for five years straight.
This will be the jokic bit of declined MVP season bec. I dont have enough expectation on his bench player and i was fcking wrong. i will never doubt may man ever again
Wilt had the greatest 5 year stretch in all of sports. I mean the guy averaged 37 28 his first year and won MVP his rookie season. Anything else is laughable
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Duncan is an all time great, no doubt. He didn't have one great 5 year peak, but was great for his whole career. But I'd put him in that next tier with Hakeem, Isaiah, Magic and Steph. Wilt, Kareem, MJ, Kobe, LeBron and now Jokic changed the game. But if you gave me a choice between "prime" Duncan and any other center save Jokic, I'd take him without thinking.
@ChristopherM720 appreciate the reply, side note Tim should have 4 finals MVP's, against Cleveland he lead the team in 4 categories except scoring,and that's because he being double teamed,Parker got those points because he was open....be safe!
Context matters: he plays in the easy NBA rules. No hand checks, freedom of movement rule, carry the ball, travel. And also with more possessions. And he barely play defense.
While you may have a point, you have to consider how these players compare to other players in their era. In terms of pure numbers, what more can you ask from him? By your logic you're practically saying that anyone who plays in the NBA today can't be held to the same standard as guys who played 30+ years ago.
If the game is on easy mode, why aren't other players having numbers like his? I agree that the rules have softened dramatically but you're wrong that he doesn't play defense.
@@sebastianbardon391Russ and harden consistently put up numbers like this and even better. Hell LeBron just dropped 3 triple doubles in a row at age 40.
Yeees, but if he was american he would have atleast 10 more points every season as somehow those rules do not apply on him! Like you said, contex matrers
LeBron James couldn't carry Nikola Jokic's jock strap to the team laundry facility. Sorry everyone but Joker is the greatest basketball player who ever put on a pair of sneakers. Nobody has ever done what he has over a five year stretch and he is still in his prime.
only problem with jokic is he is playing in era without defense and good centers,we all know he wouldnt avg this numbers vs center like moses,hakeem,robinson ewing,shaq and others...u cant rly compare stats of someone who is playing now vs someone who played 30-40y ago,game is too different
Think he was looking only post-merger NBA. But agreed, Wilt is a true legend. But he always seemed more like Paul Bunyan than a basketball player. Plus the fact that the Celtics dominated the era always over shadowed him. But he was part Shaq, part Jokic, and part Kareem. He just couldn't beat Russel.
@@ChristopherM720 - some good points, but he included Kareem's years pre-merger. Also, it wasn't that Wilt couldn't beat Russell, he constantly outplayed Russell head-to-head. Wilt's teams couldn't beat the Celtics, except in 1967, and no one else could beat them either in the 1960s. They were the most stacked sports team in history.
We can't really say these things about modern players if The NBA itself is conspiring to castrate the defensive side of the ball thus removing the entire basis for sport/competition between two teams in the first place. We are being intellectually dishonest if we don't face that fact. If players aren't allowed to play defense or if they are refusing to play it... all offensive numbers will go through the roof (Which they have). It's a cheap illusion that the modern players are more skilled. It's sad because these truths do cheapen what Jokic is accomplishing at face-value. The competition at his position is at historic levels of pathetic and the ridiculous leeway offensive players have been given in modern times is being fully exposed by Jokic. At the end of the day he is a big fish in small pond.
The players just sit back and let eachother shoot 3s. Higher ppg gets everyone paid. There's no competition anymore. Just getting everyone paid and saying nice things to eachother to avoid any hurt feelings
Jokic is the best player on the planet in numbers but he's doing great with close to zero help on his team (MJ had maybe more help) but on the weakest and most opencourt with zero defence NBA era ever and still Nikola besides being a walking triple double machine has still only one ring and I doubt he can get another one without another decent star on his team, Murray can be a good player but he's not as half as consistent as he should be to!
Joker 🃏 is the GOAT because he does it effortlessly - he is literally toying with some of the world's best athletes. MJ on the other hand, during games, always had a face as he was giving a birth to twins plus he had Pippen and Rodman.
As a diehard Nuggets fan, seeing my boy Jokic be fully embraced by hoops fans warms my heart.
He is winning in Denver ... in the NBA ... 'nuff said. His best help is injured half the time. I think getting the 6 seed with a bunch of scrubs and taking a game from the Warriors was one of the greatest hoop accomplishments ever.
true... his literally Grot surrounded by minions.
Denver has the biggest advantage in the league with that altitude. Poor ownership can change but Denver should always be a winning team with that altitude.
They just have morons who ignore the altitude.
CB drafting a low athletic back up point guard shows the disconnect, then there is Malone who let's Murray snail pace the ball up the court... while furious George won with ty Lawson as his best player... running in denver.
The stupidity in Denver is epic.
Nope it is LeBron taking GSW with KD to overtime in game 1 of the nba finals 2018 with absolutely similar roster as Jokic
The biggest difference btw Jokic and other greats is that with his efficiency and assists he can put on monster numbers and leave room for teammates to score 30+, if they do it's game over.
I mean bird was pretty dam efficient, and had numerous assists in a non ball movement era.
@@cjp1599yeah but not 63% fg efficient like Jokic two seasons ago, and were talking about Larry Bird here who is a top 5 player ever
As you heard in the video Jokic had the best PER season in the history.
@@Brickwilliams few if any consider bird top 5...
My point was ther are other greats that are efficient like jokic, maybe not quite as efficient, but bird also was a perimeter player, so efficiency should be a bit lower.
@ yes but centers shouldn’t be getting 10 assists a game…
Jokic is easily the best passer I’ve ever seen and impacts a team more than anyone in history besides the absolute greats
magic is better at passing but I agree it is very close
@@wubbell4688 He is not
@@wubbell4688 he said best hes ever seen and i dont think dudes old enough to have seen magic play lmao
Jokic being the best offensive player is pure racism, because it implies that he's a bad defender! He literally reads plays and coaches his defense accordingly, grabbing most rebounds, deflecting, stealing, and he doesn't challenge every rim is because referees call most fouls at the rim! He's not just OK defender, he's a special team defender using his IQ as his greatest weapon !
i thought that would be it last season but him putting up more ridiculous numbers early this season? i was floored! and also i like that he is durable also not prone to injury
Bird and Magic had epic five year stretches too…
Agreed, though Magic had so much talent around him that it negates some of that sense of him as individually great (though I was a huge fan of Magic going back to MiSt). Bird had less talent around him and did things with even less athleticism than Jokic (who consistently covers more ground than any other non-guard, at altitude, with surprising speed but 0 hops). Birds run from the start of his career to his back going bad was truly elite...but he just never popped on the screen the same way Magic or MJ did.
@@ChristopherM720 Bird had better Defensive Rating than Patrick Ewing....Bird was everywhere ahead of time....he was a menace on D and an assassin on O
As a Gen Xer, I grew up watching MJ. I was 11 when he won his first title.
I wasn’t around for most of Kareem’s career, but I know his stats well. And I’ve obviously been around for the entire career of LeBron and Kobe.
Having said all that, the correct answer is Jokic once this season ends.
Damn I like that. I wasn't around for Jordan unfortunately barely Kobe and all of LeBron. I'm a die hard nuggets fan.
Did you know bear shit in the woods?
If Jokic stays healthy this year and finishes with a stat line anything like what it is now, from a straight stats line, yes. I'd pay more money to go back to my own Xer days and watch prime Jordan again, but Jokic for what he does with the ball would be second, then Magic, Kobe and LeBron. I'm a bit older than you and saw still great Kareem and he was great but not in the way MJ, Jokic or Kobe were (granted Kobe has Shaq for a lot of it). Kareem needed Magic to start winning titles in LA. Jordan needed Pippen & Grant/Rodman.
Still waiting for Jokic's first all-star playing with him in the starting five.
If he averages a triple double this season and wins the chip I'd consider him top 3 all time.
He already is top 3 ! U cant win chip if u dont have a team...If jordan stayed in bad teams, he wouldnt win it eather!
@@milelemi8725 Phil Jackson was also one of the finest coaches ever
@@mja4wpDenver’s coach is garbage?
@@user-wu8sj3ee3d nah, Malone is excellent...look what he has accomplished...Put Lebron in his prime where Joker is and the results an NOT as good imo. Why you say that?
I'm a firm believer that MJ is the G.O.A.T, even if I see valid arguments for cats like Wilt, Kareem, and to some degree Kobe. Cause context matters. Like how LeBron was set up and helped to achieve the stats he's accrued since he was drafted and it's artificially inflated em, how the dead ball era makes players like Kobe look less lethal than they were, how Iverson's efficiency was better than it looks on paper, how some players have had to grind and work a lot harder than others and imo that should factor in, etc.
But even with all that said the context considered, what Joker is doing is absolutely crazy and it's sickening that the league and media are more concerned with some ridiculous, contrived father-son moment between a past-his-prime, propped-up roidhead and a nepobaby that was barely high school ready, much less NBA. Makes me wonder why I care anymore when they clearly don't.
You ask yourself how he could possibly get any better this season and then he starts the season like so
And still plays ZERO DEFENSE
@ that’s actually not true he plays defense. Did you not see him lock down Shai last week? Also last year Denver had one of the better defenses in the league, and he played a big part in that. Will he win the DPOY? Obviously never. But he’s not the weak defender many casuals think he is.
@@Rogue_Centurion he has better defensive stats then AD and Rudy Gobert
@@Q.B.2.L.B. Jokic is top in the league in deflection and defensive win shares. He is a very good defender.
@@Rogue_Centurion they said same crap about Bird,,,wasn't true then and it is not true now
Jokic is a much better team player than either Jordan or Wilt, and that's what basketball is about.
How so when he's a HUGE liability on defense? Casuals. SMH
Let him win 72 games and then you have a point
@@Q.B.2.L.B.look at his defensive box +/-. look at his advanced defensive statistics in general by crafted nba. he is an above average defender. look at the way he plays the game, and actually watch his movement. he is only a below average rim protector, because he cant afford getting into foul trouble because he has to carry the team offensively and isnt as athletically gifted as AD or Bam or something like that. tell me where on defense exactly he is a HUGE defensive liability
Yes he is probably a much nicer teammate than them.
And no Basketball is not about being a better teammate, it’s about winning. And getting over the obstacles to win. And if being mean makes your teammates better and it helps you get 6 rings then MJ was right.
Basketball is a bout winner the hell u on about 😂😂😂 jokic ain’t a winner simple ass
Thank God someone made video like this. I've been saying for 2 years that Jokic the greatest 3 seasons in a row in NBA history and after that, next 2 were as good as previous 3 and I've been saying soo far this season that he has statisticly the greatest 5 seasons in a row ever. And now someone made video about that.
Jokic
and the media still ignore him
Jokic one of the peak GOAT's bro!
How? He plays ZERO DEFENSE which is part of the game! You casuals kill me. Inflated stats in a soft era. What other bigs is he battling??
@@Q.B.2.L.B.Spoken like someone who only follows narratives instead of watching the game. Classic😂
@Q.B.2.L.B. You casuals kill me. He's elite at rebounding, steals, deflections and positioning. All important defensive qualities. Get a job.
@@Q.B.2.L.B.bro you dont watch the games dont you
You're a casual. I feel like a victim with how bad you kill me. He has highest per in history. Grow up boomer
Those are some very very impressive numbers that this young man has been putting up I had no clue he had $2,000 points 1,000 rebounds and 500 assists man that's some hell of a numbers
What I do not get is this obsession that Americans have over who is the greatest whatever then judging them by their team mates.
Repeatedly I read comments like “If he gets another ring” “if he gets another two rings” then I will consider him for discussion.
“He’s not even in my top 15 as he has won nothing”
It is absolute rank stupidity to make these comments when talking about somebody in a TEAM game.
Jokic’s personal stats and the statistical fact that he lifts his teammates to have career high stats tell you clearly he is not one of the greatest but actually the greatest all round player the game has seen. Even though he is only halfway through his career.
That's why I never count Chips in when discussing GOATs. Dan Marino, specially based on the era, is probably still the greatest QB (or Manning who really only won 1, the second being all his defense). Marino couldn't tackle or make kicks, so their lack of SB can't be on him. Likewise Dominic Hasek for his career until he went to Red wings. He was already the greatest goalie, he just needed guys to score some.
Lebron, Kareem, Kobe, even MJ always had other All-Stars with them, real talent. Jokic has played with 0 AS in stating 5 during this period. He raises his teammates to new heights but, they all have ceilings. Stars aren't everything, but when you see stats plus making everyone better, that makes you stop and realize a player's greatness. That said, MJ probably made Pippen look a whole lot better than he actually was.
@@ChristopherM720 I commented on another one of your comments because you don't seem to realize the talent around MJ.
Bro, Pippen was in the conversation for MVP voting multiple times. Dennis Rodman was a 7 time rebounding champ and 2 time Defensive player of the year. Ron Harper averaged over 20 pts a game when he joined the Bulls... Kerr led the league in 3pt% on MJ's Bulls the 94-95 season. Horace Grant was a beast. Kukoc was a 6th man of the year and had the 2nd highest offensive rating in the 94-95 season. Bill Cartwright was great.. MJ played with multiple HOF's and great players of the time. Jokic doesn't even play with all stars lol. MJ never won with teams like Jokic has played with, none of the all time greats did. If Jokic had just a Pippen on his team, who even knows how many chips he would have by now. MJ didn't make Pippen better, he was already one of the best players in the entire league. Pippen had to take a back seat when playing with Mike.
Larry from 81 to 86 basically averaged 50 40 90 while winning 2 chips and 3 mvp's.
jokic is another super level. on one can compare with him up till now!
Since 2020 he has lead the league every year in win shares, box plus minus, varp and per. Also in true shooting in 2023 which is absurd for his volume. Never played with an allstar his whole career. This guy is seriously approaching top 5 all time territory.
Great video highlighting the guy who is playing better basketball than anybody right now. But all time? There is a plain and simple old school metric that isn’t getting much mention: winning. And it’s a personal choice. Who are the best players? They guys putting up the biggest stat lines? Or the guys leading their teams to championships? Chamberlain put up the craziest numbers ever up until now, but head to head, he was 1-7 against Russell in the playoffs. Russell had lower numbers, but led his teams to 11 NBA Titles and won 5 MVPs at a time when the players voted (not the press). Who do you feel was better?
At the end of his career, we can look back and measure Jokic’s greatness against the best players in history. Doing so now, while he is still in his 20s and has only won one title is very premature.
Personally, when I look at the all time greats, I see a list of guys who all embraced hard work and intense training. Jokic likes going home in the offseason, drinking beer, and riding horses. He has worked harder than most of us ever will. But I don’t see any enthusiasm in him to work that hard for enough years to win 4, 5, or 6 titles. And so, if were using winning titles as a measure of greatness, it is very doubtful he will catch the all time greats.
And that isn’t to say I don’t like Jokic, he is one of my favorite players. His style, his self-effacing sense of humor, how this guy has accomplished everything he has and remains as humble as he does, is a very endearing quality. So I cheer him on and marvel as he puts up crazy numbers and changes the roll and potential of big men in basketball forever. And who knows? Maybe the elite performance demands of diet, training, and rest will be a lifestyle he embraces enough to keep playing at a high enough level to win more titles? I will definitely be cheering him on if he does…
On all lists Jokic is the only one who makes average players in to a great players. Add to that his amazing shooting and amazing passing and amazing efficiency, before he turned 30, HE IS THE GOAT. I dont know how many records has left for him to break
Only about a thousand. He is not the Goat, at least not yet. He has years left and i think it's quite possible he will take the throne from Jordan.
@@ritchierich6133 I would 1st pick Jokic in my team and if we are honest if Jokic was black and born American he would have 4 MVPs in 4 years and media would kiss his ass
@milosstefanovic6603 i agree with you 100%. but i would pick Jordan 1st, no matter what era rules. Jokic or Luka would be my 2nd pick with the rules of this era, 80' or 90's era rules, they wouldn't even be in my top 5.
The hardest part in evaluating Jokic is the lack of multiple championships. But that's where his doing it in Denver (not a destination for players), in the tighter salary cap era, with a so-so GM at best comes in to play. Also, far more great teams now than during Jordan, Kobe or LeBron's peak. It's why we don't see repeat champs and in fact a different team every year since 2019. I can't hold lack of talent around him against Jokic, in fact it shows how great he is...he's made a team around him that is very talent capped as good as they are.
@@ChristopherM720 Lets be honest, if Jokic was black and American born he would have 4 MVPs in 4 years and he has a ring in DENVER. How many rings he would have if he was on Lakers? Y guess we will never know. Everyone was saying Westbrook should retire, that its over for him, but if Westbrook starts to shine it will be one more proof that Jokic is in a dimension on its own because after his passes receiver always have an easy points
If he stays healthy, average a 30-10-10 this season and denver is atleast a 3 seed, then he should be the MVP. Voter's fatigue has no place in this conversation.
Why not
Joking is the genius of basketball.
In 30 years from now they will say players like Joker and Luka were plumbers when arguing with Lebron fans on why their best player is better than Lebron and will say Lebrons era was weak. Then Lebron fans will look back and realize how ignorant they were in the Goat conversation with Jordan. Jordan is the Goat, hands down and no one is even close. But if i was a betting man, i would put my money on Joker or Luka to take the throne from Jordan.
Kobe had 2 titles 2 fmvp 2 gold medals and 1 mvp. Best stretch I ever seen
The greatest five years stretch of leadership is done by Bill Russell, who won five rings in a row and it’s not even close. He literally won eight titles in a row and winning a title as a player/coach is the greatest achievement in basketball. I don’t care what anyone says. And he won two years in a row and retired.
I always believed that Jokic would have three-peated from 2021 to 2023 if Murray/MPJ weren't injured
He wouldn’t beat GSW 2022 they were just too good that year.
Jordan, LeBron, Kareem, even Wilt, are all very close to each other, but Jokic is taking advantage
Stat wise, no one, not even Jordan comes close to wilt. Dude averaged 37 28 in his first season and won MVP as a rookie. He had a season where he averaged 50 pts a game while grabbing 25 rebounds. There is no 5 year stretch in the history of sports that can compare to what wilt did, definitely not jokic. It sounds good but they don't call wilt the record book for nothing
Jordan the greatest 5 yr stretch easily, he got the chips with finals MVP’s, scoring titles, all defense, MVP, etc during that time
Exactly I love jokic but it is hard to debate when every year jordan won the title.
Yes I agree but he also had pippen. Joker is doing so much with so little
Jordan was a bum. Dude just jumped in the air, waited for the defender to drop , then shot . Anyone could do what Jordan did if they could hang in the air for 9 seconds. No skill all talent . Just like LeBron, bull rushing the rim. Neither had anything on bird, magic, or Hakeem. Those were the real best evers.. not the guys who excelled on talent alone
You are, of course, demonstrably an idiot. Troll on!
@ Jokic is definitely one of the greatest ever but when we talk Jordan we talk the greatest ever. Jokic need a couple more accolades in the winning department then I definitely believe he’s in the convo
When you said Jokic led his team without no other All-stars to the 6th seed (when he played without Murray and MPJ), you need to understand that he never in his career played with an all-star, everything he did is playing with average, below average, fringe, and not nba level players.
Its a great time to be a serb what else can i say we witnessing greatness
Larry Bird 1984 - 1988
If we're going by MVPs, Bill Russell has the all-time best stretch.
1961-1963 and 1965 (3 in a row, 4 out of 5, then add 1958).
Hope Joker has more going for him than THAT - he's not even matched Bird (3 in a row) or Wilt (also 3 in a row).
He's also not playing against SERIOUS defenses.
absolutely top of the top
Great vid! New sub.
Jokic G.O.A.T !! Jokic je postao kosarkaski Djokovic !!
Birds 5 year peak is better then lebrons 5 year peak. Wilt and shaq also have strong arguments over kareem and lebron
@2:22 high defensive prowess and the clip shows him getting forearms lol
"Not even Wilt did that"
Me: looked it up. Wilt did it in 67-68. Sure, it was *total* rebounds and *total* assists, but worth mentioning.
Wilts literally the only player in history that gets praise for total stats in a season.
Wilt, MJ and Jokic are such different and elevating players they are hard to compare. But they indeed did things no one else has done. I will always say Jordan is the GOAT in part bc off his competition. Wilt...I mean, 100 points...dominated everything, but never had the team around him hence the Celtics plethora of titles.
But Jokic is among the best rebounders I've ever seen, arguably top 5 best post players, and the most elite passer I've ever seen. At his size. And he's never had a starting 5 all-star player. That's simply amazing.
Lebron? Kobe? If they played with less talent it might have elevated them in my mind. Jokic won a title with zero bench and a starting 5 that had Murray as its best player after him. Not that Lebron and Kobe aren't great, but talent around you makes you look better.
Jordan,Jamal, Jok ..
I always love to watch Bill Russell videos wait, what??.
But Wilt DID lead the league in Rebounds and Assist in the same season: 67-68, while averaging 25 PPG and was MVP of the finals. For the first 8 years of his career, Wilt was both the best offensive and best defensive player in the league. Awards don’t mean shit, as Jordan’s DPOTY shows. What matters is what being on the floor means to your team defensively. (Wilt once blocked 24 shots and had 10 steals in the same game).
I could do that too against a bunch of 6th graders. Which is basically wilts competition
@@kenw2225and this is why no one takes what kids say seriously.
Lol clearly dont know basketball. Wilts stats will never be matched. Idc if your in your prime age and super athletic and playing against and with 1st graders. You will never average 50 points, 25 rebounds and 9 assist. So pleasestop it. Wilt no matter when he played it will never be matched against any competition. @kenw2225
It was a different game back then. I checked the rosters of every NBA team for one of Wilt’s MVP seasons and there was only 1 other 7- footer, who wasn’t even a starter ( I forget his name)
@KellyMcGrath-t4y look at the average height back wen Wilt played compared to now. Maybe a 2 inch difference and u have to take account to medicine, equipment, the climate of the world back then and they was mostly taking bus to games and regular hotels. If this generation played back then the way they are pampered they would've quit.
5 MVP IN 4 SEASONS. SEASON BEFORE LAST HE WON COMPHERENCE FINALS MVP AND FINALS.
On his best season they didn't give him MVP award.
Wilt Chamberlain. Check the record book.
100%
wilt was playing plumbers, Jokic clears
against 6'2 white bois who had a jobs on the side
Jokic is doing Wilt numbers but against real pro new era basketball players
INSANE
There were only 8 teams in the NBA back then...
From me the greatest centers of all time are: Bill, Hakeem, Kareem, Nikola and Wilt.
My favorite player scent Bird/Magic and they are in my top 5. I would put Jokic in the top 20 and close to that 10 mark. I just thing you need 2 Championships to crack the top 10 and 3 to crack the top 5. Championships is the true measure of greatness. If Championships don't matter I put in in that top 5.
Nuggets should be investing all their money finding a talent that will complement Jokic's. Man needs some serious help. Murray and AD is not that consistent, especially this season.
NBA players with at least 15 major league awards and trophies within a 5 year span (Championship, Finals MVP, regular season MVP, All-Star selection, All-Star MVP, All-NBA team selection, DPOY, NBA All-Defensive team selection, NBA Most Improved Player, Rookie of the Year, NBA All-Rookie team selection, Regular season leader in one of PPG, RPG, APG, SPG, BPG)
36 Michael Jordan ('92-'93, '96-'98)
24 Kobe Bryant ('06-'10)
23 LeBron James ('09-'13)
23 Dwight Howard ('08-'12)
22 Bill Russell ('61-'65)
22 Hakeem Olajuwon ('93-'97)
22 Julius Erving *(ABA)* ('72-'76)
22 Chris Paul ('11-'15)
21 Larry Bird ('82-'86)
21 Shaquille O'Neal ('00-'04)
21 Kevin Garnett ('04-'08)
21 Moses Malone ('79-'83)
20 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar ('71-'75)
20 Tim Duncan ('02-'06)
20 Giannis Antetokounmpo ('19-'23)
20 David Robinson ('91-95)
20 Allen Iverson ('01-'05)
20 John Stockton ('91-'95)
20 Scottie Pippen ('92-'96)
19 Wilt Chamberlain ('61-'65)
18 Jason Kidd ('99-'03)
17 Magic Johnson ('82-'86)
17 Steph Curry ('15-'19)
17 Gary Payton ('94-'98)
15 Kevin Durant ('14-'18)
15 Nikola Jokic ('20-'24)
15 Russell Westbrook ('15-'19)
15 Anthony Davis ('14-'18)
Career total
1. Michael Jordan 70
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 68
3. LeBron James 65
Kobe so underrated man 🤦🏽♂️
Kinda unfair for Jordan to have a break in his 5 year stretch even tho he didn’t play in 94 and barely in 95. All the other players played for 5 in a row. For Jordan’s you should use 88-92 instead or 89-93 depending on which is more.
Jokic dominates in the advanced stats like Player Efficiency Rating, Win Shares, Offensive Win Shares, Box Plus/Minus, Offensive Box Plus/Minus, Value Over Replacement Player where he's been 1st in ALL OF THEM for five years straight.
@@MichaelCsikoswho gives a damn about advanced metrics. It's either you win or you don't.
This will be the jokic bit of declined MVP season bec. I dont have enough expectation on his bench player and i was fcking wrong. i will never doubt may man ever again
Wilt had the greatest 5 year stretch in all of sports. I mean the guy averaged 37 28 his first year and won MVP his rookie season. Anything else is laughable
I watched my friend die from tobacco. Hit by a delivery truck in 7-11 parking lot. I think they were menthol-flavored.
Nikola Jokic he is St. Elizar Ducanes III dati c Paul Gasol kinausap aq Uncle dw nmin siya. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Love Sto Niño. 🧡❤️🧡❤️🧡❤️ S Franville III inaway din aq ng mga nag papanggap n tao doon. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Love Sto Niño. ❤️🧡❤️🧡❤️🧡
MJ imo, but all respect to all other players
His highlight real is going to be 5 hours long when it's all said and done.
If jokic was black everyone would be calling him the all time goat already
League Of Legends...
Was Jordans Bulls a sorry team when Jordan went to the bench?
C Nikola Jokic he is St. Elizar Ducanes III Doctor din siya at Lawyer nag gi gymnastics din siya. C Naruto yn c Nikola Jokic Super Saiyan din siya he can create The true King Sun. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Love Sto Niño. 🧡❤️🧡❤️🧡❤️
Wilt chamberlain actually did lead the league in rebounds and assists for a full season
Wtf, where is Tim Duncan,he got chip his second year and Finals MVP, I'm asking for a friend.!!!
Duncan is an all time great, no doubt. He didn't have one great 5 year peak, but was great for his whole career. But I'd put him in that next tier with Hakeem, Isaiah, Magic and Steph. Wilt, Kareem, MJ, Kobe, LeBron and now Jokic changed the game. But if you gave me a choice between "prime" Duncan and any other center save Jokic, I'd take him without thinking.
@ChristopherM720 appreciate the reply, side note Tim should have 4 finals MVP's, against Cleveland he lead the team in 4 categories except scoring,and that's because he being double teamed,Parker got those points because he was open....be safe!
Bro,put some respect on Tim Duncan......PLEASE.!!!!!!
I hope he wins another few chips. Or he will never be in the GOAT discussion.
Didn't Larry win 3 straight MVPs and 2 titles?
Almost, kick out LeBron, add Wilt for the right mix.
Context matters: he plays in the easy NBA rules. No hand checks, freedom of movement rule, carry the ball, travel. And also with more possessions. And he barely play defense.
While you may have a point, you have to consider how these players compare to other players in their era. In terms of pure numbers, what more can you ask from him? By your logic you're practically saying that anyone who plays in the NBA today can't be held to the same standard as guys who played 30+ years ago.
If the game is on easy mode, why aren't other players having numbers like his? I agree that the rules have softened dramatically but you're wrong that he doesn't play defense.
"barely plays defense"
@@sebastianbardon391Russ and harden consistently put up numbers like this and even better. Hell LeBron just dropped 3 triple doubles in a row at age 40.
Yeees, but if he was american he would have atleast 10 more points every season as somehow those rules do not apply on him! Like you said, contex matrers
Jokic stats are above all of them
Why did you say 98 to 92, instead of 92 to 98
Individual speaking he was better
LeBron James couldn't carry Nikola Jokic's jock strap to the team laundry facility. Sorry everyone but Joker is the greatest basketball player who ever put on a pair of sneakers. Nobody has ever done what he has over a five year stretch and he is still in his prime.
lol 😂
only problem with jokic is he is playing in era without defense and good centers,we all know he wouldnt avg this numbers vs center like moses,hakeem,robinson ewing,shaq and others...u cant rly compare stats of someone who is playing now vs someone who played 30-40y ago,game is too different
He is not center but point center. Big difference!
@@BergenBelsen88 no he is center ,they just let him play how ever he wants
You can only compare players after 2004. The game was different before then. It's just circus street ball now.
@@adamgray-kz1cz i bet guys on street tryhhard a lot more on defense than in nba now lol
Too early to say
By not including Wilt, your video loses all credibility.
Think he was looking only post-merger NBA. But agreed, Wilt is a true legend. But he always seemed more like Paul Bunyan than a basketball player. Plus the fact that the Celtics dominated the era always over shadowed him. But he was part Shaq, part Jokic, and part Kareem.
He just couldn't beat Russel.
@@ChristopherM720 - some good points, but he included Kareem's years pre-merger. Also, it wasn't that Wilt couldn't beat Russell, he constantly outplayed Russell head-to-head. Wilt's teams couldn't beat the Celtics, except in 1967, and no one else could beat them either in the 1960s. They were the most stacked sports team in history.
We can't really say these things about modern players if The NBA itself is conspiring to castrate the defensive side of the ball thus removing the entire basis for sport/competition between two teams in the first place. We are being intellectually dishonest if we don't face that fact. If players aren't allowed to play defense or if they are refusing to play it... all offensive numbers will go through the roof (Which they have). It's a cheap illusion that the modern players are more skilled. It's sad because these truths do cheapen what Jokic is accomplishing at face-value. The competition at his position is at historic levels of pathetic and the ridiculous leeway offensive players have been given in modern times is being fully exposed by Jokic. At the end of the day he is a big fish in small pond.
Well said, these newer fans refuse to admit this.
The players just sit back and let eachother shoot 3s. Higher ppg gets everyone paid. There's no competition anymore. Just getting everyone paid and saying nice things to eachother to avoid any hurt feelings
Jokic is the best player on the planet in numbers but he's doing great with close to zero help on his team (MJ had maybe more help) but on the weakest and most opencourt with zero defence NBA era ever and still Nikola besides being a walking triple double machine has still only one ring and I doubt he can get another one without another decent star on his team, Murray can be a good player but he's not as half as consistent as he should be to!
Joker 🃏 is the GOAT because he does it effortlessly - he is literally toying with some of the world's best athletes. MJ on the other hand, during games, always had a face as he was giving a birth to twins plus he had Pippen and Rodman.
lol 😂
One thing about Jordan he had pippin who arguably was the 2 best player in the NBA
Pip was nowhere near the 2nd best player in the league at any point in his career. He was great no doubt...
The answer is Jordan and it’s not really clsoen
Jordan had other all stars on his team
It’s close.
Chairman John Rogers had beaten MJ. MJ is a joke.
It’s clsoen
It's Jordic and not even close 😅