Lost (6x15) Across the Sea - Jacob transforms MiB into the Smoke Monster
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- Опубліковано 10 тра 2010
- Lost 6x15 / Across the Sea - A piece of Lost's new episode with title "Across the Sea" which shows how Jacob and MiB ended up on the island, how Jacob became the protector and how MiB became the Smoke Monster. I neither own Lost nor ABC, ABC reserves every right on Lost.
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![LOST: MiB and his "mother" down in the well [6x15-Across the Sea]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IHviMpVieDI/mqdefault.jpg)
Before this event I don't think either Jacob or MIB was "the good guy" or "the bad guy". Jacob was obedient and respectful to his mother, while MIB was explorative, bold and thought out of the box. They both had their strengths and weaknesses.
They were just two counter opposing forces. One was light, the other dark. What most people realize the light and the dark don't really represent good and evil. That's just a myth. Evil is maladaptive, whereas the darkness of the human soul is adaptability itself. He was willing to adapt to survive but his "mother" was not. Whilst he may have murdered her, she murdered his real mother. In many ways Jacob's act was highly evil. He truly let his brother become a monster. I'm guessing Jacob regretted doing what he did. He may have been the light but just like the dark not being the evil of human nature, the light is not the goodness of the soul. Like the Yin/Yang both have a piece of each other within them. The darkness in the light or the light within the dark.
Jacob and MiB were just more victims of the monster’s schemes. It couldn’t kill either of them or the Mother directly, just like it couldn’t kill directly kill Jacob or the Candidates later. So it manipulated the MiB into killing the Mother, and Jacob into killing the MiB.
Curious what you think. After this event is Jacob the bad one for harming his brother. Or the good one for doing what his mother wanted.
@@ZantherStoneIts not like you wrote! Jacob klls MiB for the murder of their mother not for the good/bad game. Just start with the real points. Jacob is a blind believer and MiB wants to own knowledge. The typical battle between Science and Belief. Both were caged with their opinion. Jacob with hard heading people to the island without an evidence to do so and MiB to gain knowledge from scientists cuz he found out theres more but this knowledge isnt the key to leave. In fact he needed Jacobs people to leave the island and the key was both sticking together. A point people never see
@@stillgotyourmom I like your take. But to be clear, I didn't write that it he did it for the "good/bad game", but after the action whether that made them one or the other.
Here's my theory. When Jacob tossed MiB into the source his physical body was killed but because of the rule enacted by their "Mother", the Island/Light removed a part of itself to construct a new body for MiB's soul instead of letting him pass into the afterlife/death.
As a result of his body being an actual part of the Light he cannot take it out of there without causing devastating effects around the world, so Jacob decided to try convince him to stay and protect the Island with him by proving to him that what's outside is worth protecting. But because MiB was only interested in using the people Jacob brought to the Island to help him escape and kill off those he couldn't use as pawns, Jacob eventually realized his brother could not be swayed and it's just a matter of time before MiB will find his "loophole".
The only method for Jacob to truly end this cycle (which he inadvertently created) is by killing his brother and ending his rule with a better successor. So he marked his candidates in order to find two things; a person with the resolve to correct his mistake and a person more suitable (or compassionate/understanding) as the Island's guardian, the latter will then forge a better/healthier path ahead than how Mother or Jacob did things.
As for why he appears as a loud ticking smoke; he is something that should not exist. The human soul and the Light are not meant to fuse together and chained to the Living world, it becomes corrupt/broken when that happens. The reason is because the Source is the afterlife and humans (without EM immunity) who pass through the Light is no different than passing through a gateway for the soul but MiB's soul is blocked from that because of Jacob.
Because MiB's own soul is "trapped" in the living combined with his body being connected to the afterlife, he is able to impersonate the deceased (souls that have reunited with the Source). One of the Greek mythological beings which stood at gates of the Underworld, between life and death was called Cerberus (this was one of the Smoke Monster's early/possible aliases).
With that said I'd also like to address what the Darkness is. Jacob described a malevolent force was being held in check by the Island's Light. However Mother's description opens up another perspective; "If the light goes out here, it goes out everywhere". Darkness may not be an evil force but rather, the absence of Light. When the Light is expunged, Darkness does not fly out of the ground and consume the planet, instead whatever metaphysical functions the Light served will grind to a halt - this includes the MiB's powers.
If Light was the manifestation of "life, death and rebirth" (think of it as a metaphor for motion/change) then its absence is "stillness" (this can be interpreted as emptiness or lifelessness). When the cork was removed, water stopped flowing, the weather went crazy and the Island started to fall apart. If this carried on any further the chaos will eventually reach a standstill and the world would permanently become a ball of dirt devoid of life.
There is definitely no Jacob convincing the MIB to stay. Though a lot is left unsaid it was made clear that in order to leave the island MIB had to kill Jacob (and possibly any protector) and put out the light.
I do however like your theory that because Jacob can't kill him, the light allows him to live on in Smoke monster form and to me that seems about right. You could argue that his physical body was unable to live after so much exposure to the light and so the smoke form was somehow created.
Fantastic theory, very very very well thought out.
What's your thoughts on Jacob's touch specifically? E.g how he touched all of the candidates at some point of their lives, but when it came to Richard specifically his touch granted him longevity instead. However, we never did get to see if any of the characters actually did age (dying is different e.g submarine etc). I guess I don't have a specific question around this but wanted to know if you had some other thoughts on it.
Also, do you have a theory on why mothers cannot become a candidate? I do see a connection between Kate being removed as a candidate for becoming a mother despite not being the birth-giver, and Jacob's "mother" not being his natural birth giver - I wonder if that has some relation?
This was an excellent write up, well done.
why dont you have more likes??? this is really thought out! :D
You should write a book.
That awkward moment when Lucifer transforms War into a demon
Dylan Eric lmao
@@christineapicella1422 what does that mean?
@@claeslind9532 I'm not sure what happened. I thought I had deleted it.
@@christineapicella1422 oh okay :p
@@claeslind9532 It's a reference to the show Supernatural. Without a host, demons look like clouds of black smoke.
They should have added a few more scenes of MiB's experience in being a smoke monster for the first time. Like whether he was crying, angry etc...
YES! Something to show how he is driven insane by being disembodied.
@@victorpradha9946 MIB was dead, thats why Jacob found his corpse afterwards, the Smoke Monster copies the person who died and was a candidate, both Jacob and MIB were "blessed" by their "Mother" when they were kids, thats how the Smoke Monster could use MIBs persona from there on.
@@DarknessIsThePath There are two possibilities:
One that there was a smoke monster BEFORE Jacob threw his brother into the source and that somehow Jacob's brother's consciousness merged with the Smoke Monster entity thereby giving it a desire to leave the Island (feeling trapped or imprisoned on the Island) which it never had before, and a disdain for humanity and a hatred for Jacob. All of MiBs qualities were infused into the Smoke Monster. It didn't care that the Island being destroyed was the ONLY way it could leave...it simply and pathologically (perhaps insanely) wanted to leave the Island without regard for the impact of ALL OF EXISTENCE in doing so.
An alternate possibility is that the Smoke Monster was simply an evil entity that become unmoored from the Source of the Island and having scanned MiB's consciousness and mind, wanted to leave the Island and there is really NO aspect of MiB within Smokey...it just used MiB's form to mock and belittle Jacob. It was part of its cruelty and sadistic nature. It used Jack's dad to toy with Jack (almost leading him OFF a cliff), it used Christian to lure Claire causing her to abandon Aaron. It used Isabella to torment Richard, Alex to manipulate Ben, Yemi to try and corrupt Eko. It's just a nasty SOB and MiB being tossed into the Source merely freed it from being obedient to the Island or it's protector.
@@victorpradha9946 I mean yeah but your previous message implied that MIB was the Smoke Monster which it is not.
@@DarknessIsThePath There are some who theorize that the Smoke Monster is actually the disembodied consciousness of MiB and that somehow part of the energy in the Source of the Island became dislodged or broken off from the Source and manifested as the Smoke Monster imbued with Jacob's brother's consciousness. This entity could NOT leave the Island as it is irrevocably linked and moored to the Source and can ONLY "leave" the Island by destroying the Source which can only be done by killing the protector and anyone else who could become protector and shutting the WHOLE THING down.
They theorize that Jacob could NOT kill the Smoke Monster because of Mother's rule that she made it so MiB and Jacob cannot kill each other, so Jacob couldn't kill Smokey because Smokey is part of the Island's Source energy merged with Jacob's brother's consciousness. And it couldn't kill Jacob and Jacob couldn't kill it because of "Mother's" rules. So Smokey manipulated Ben into doing it and Jacob recruited Jack to do it.
One of the key points in this episode is to show the human/emotional side of Jacob/MiB as opposed to the seemingly flawless, wise and stoic personality we've seen. MiB wasn't evil here (even when he killed his "mother", it was out of blind rage/despair and he regretted it shortly after) and neither was Jacob (who also did this out of sheer anger). Many people in our world would possibly do the same in their situation, and that may be what this episode is trying to communicate.
Jacob, what have you unleashed, man?
Iggypox lucifer
Iggypox luciferception
Jacob threw him down a plot hole. ;)
And you can see how much more of an human Jacob was when he wasn´t the Protector yet. He had feelings, he was shocked about things, felt anger etc. But when the years passed, he became more numb about everything and more calm about outcomes but also more non-human. Cynical and empathy were only emotions he feld before his death. Good example was when he looked at Ben and asked him with an kind voice "What about you?". Sympathetic but cynical at the same time.
I don't think it was sympathetic at all he was definitely trying to hurt Ben because he hated everything that he was and everything he turned the others into. The only reason he was sad was because he knew he was about to die.
I just noticed that after Jacob threw the MIB in that place his body somehow ended up in the bamboo field outside which is something that requires explaining which also takes me to the final episode when Jack returned that stone to it's place and saved the island from sinking, theoretically he wasnt going to be able to survive because only Desmond can but somehow he woke up ALIVE in the bamboo field too only to die after that.....wow there is so much unanswered question in this show but still love it.
It can mean that jack is the new smoke monster 😮😮
@@medm4496 Nice theory: Obviously, they intended to parallel Jack and MiB. Except MiB is dead already. Jack on the other hand is still alive, dying from the knife wound, but NOT his journey into the Cave of Light and exposure to the electromagnetism there.
Still I like the idea that the Smoke Monster dilemma is solved by replacing MiB with Jack. MiB was filled with an obsessive desire to get off the Island...to leave. He had a very cynical, jaded view of humanity. They were pawns to him. Those qualities became infused in whatever the Smoke Monster is.
With Jack going into the light...and coming out exactly where MiB came out there is a parallel here. Could whatever the Smoke Monster is/was be NOW imbued with Jack's benevolence, his desire to stay on the Island (THIS is where I'm supposed to be; We have to go back) and his self-sacrificial desire to save people...to make things right...to fix situations. And therefore, whatever the Yin Yang balance there maybe to the Island, with Jack as the last entrant to the heart of the Island, there's no malevolence no desire to "escape" the Island infused into the counterbalancing aspect to the "Light" at the heart of the Island.
Electromagnetism could have teleported him, remember hatch implosion
I think Jacob fully expected MiB to get up and fight back; him hitting his head on that rock was a total accident.
Nah, he's just a dick like that.
Maybe not fight back but stand up and choose for himself.
i think he accidentally killed him and his dead body went into the heart of the island which turned his soul into the black smoke, since jacob finds his body on the rocks.
@@Cryptati0n I thought they could not hurt each other.
@@FatManJackson the whole thing about them not being able to hurt each other was broken when mother died. That was her spell not jacobs or MIB
Care to elaborate. I loved this episode, it showed the tragic backstory of Jacob and the MIB and explained a fair amount. I don't understand why people don't like it
Same here. It was one of my favorites.
This isn't about "turning into the smoke monster" if you touch the light. It's about "realeasing him", releasing the evil incarnated. That's what the MiB's body did when he got in there.
The MiB was never the Smoke Monster. The Smoke Monster took MiB's form. That's why the MiB was lying dead. Afterwards, it then took John Locke's form when he died.
No, he said in the past that Jacob took his body. He became the smoke monster and no longer had a body, thats why he can't die and why his dead body is with his mothers.
+RockyDrummer
if thats true then why was the light there (energy) before mib and jacob??
It clearly was the MiB because it shared MiBs sole goal to leave the island
No because thstvwould mean Jacob killed him and they cannot kill each other.
Agree.
The "Smoke Monster" already existed when they were both children. And this event just allowed it to take MiB's form.
Kinda like how Jacob's "power"s were transferred to him by drinking the wine his "mum" gave him, and he transferred them to Hurley by the same method.
I love LOST and this episode.
Here is how I interpret the core elements of the central story told in LOST:
Mother is the Protector of the Island to whom the Black Smoke obeys originally (basically to eliminate those who are perceived as a dangerous threat to the Island). Things change when she is killed and when Jacob's brother is thrown into the cave. At this moment, the Black Smoke liberates itself from its initial function by absorbing Jacob's brother vital essence and by adopting his identity. From this precise moment, the Balance which existed on the Island is disrupted. The Protector of the Island (Jacob) cannot control the Black Smoke anymore; it's even worse than that: the Black Smoke becomes his enemy with opposite goals (it/he wants to kill Jacob and to leave the Island). This is why Jacob starts to bring new people to the Island: he wants them to find a way to eliminate the new Black Smoke which reinforces chaos on the Island.
When Desmond removes the cork and the Light in the Heart of the Island goes out, the extraordinaries properties of the Island disappear. The Black Smoke becomes human (unknowingly to itself/himself, its particular form was always connected to the Light). Jack kills him and then restores the Light again. That's how the problem created by Jacob thousands of years ago is resolved. A new cycle begins with Hurley as the Protector of the Island. The Black Smoke reappears as an impersonal force where it originally belongs: in the Heart of the Island. Balance is reestablished. The Protector of the Island can summon the Black Smoke and use it, but knowing Hurley and his personality (his kindness and intrinsic non-violence) one can presume that he won't do that, as he will try to find more pacific ways to resolve conflict with the potential "threats" to the Island.
I'm more into the idea that the Mother was both the protector and a smoke monster herself.
There are three important subtle details that strongly support my interpretation:
1) The Mother, as far as I recall, was weaving a loom with Egyptians motifs.
>The Egyptians were the main civilization inhabiting the island before the Others, as seen by the statue, the Anubis image and the hieroglyphs on the cork containing the electromagnetism into the bag. So my take is that the smoke monster depicted with Anubis was the Mother.
2) The Mother was killed following the same ritual and using the same dague that Sayid was told and given to kill MiB.
>This implies that she was a smoke monster, which is supported by how she was able to completely annihilate the men who joined MiB.
3) The Mother says that something worse than death will happen to Jacob and MiB if they dare to go down to the heart of the island.
> This is a very important point because it was never shown this was the case for normal people. The heart of the island was full of skeletons and the only person capable of going there safely was Desmond. This two things point to the heart being nothing but a glimpse of the bag of especial electromagnetism lying under the island, hence why ancient people died when they went there (and their skeletons remained) and why Desmond was the only one capable of surviving it (because he was the only person able to survive so much exposition to electromagnetism, as Widmore tested).
So in which instances would it happen such "worse than death" consequence, exactly? Well, in those where someone who can't die is exposed to an unavoidable death. In other words, a person who can't kill themself / can't be killed by some other being thrown into the active electromagnetism that would kill anybody but Desmond. And that fits the Mother and the MiB perfectly:
-The Mother was the protector of the island. If the candidates couldn't kill themselves, odds are the protector couldn't either. Hence why she thanked MiB for stabbing her.
-MiB couldn't be killed by Jacob, and he was probably immortal too since he was a candidate, yet was thrown by his brother to the pit.
It isn't just a matter of the Mother being able to control a pre-existing smoke monster, because that wouldn't explain why she was killed following Dogen's ritual nor why she knew that a fate worse than death was awaiting for those entering the heart of the island. I don't really think there's anything too special about the smoke monster. I don't see it like some kind of ancient entity, even deity that has always been there. I think it is just a corrupt soul of a poor immortal person that would suffer a paradox of facing a certain death.
The pacific is a VERY large ocean, so I'm assuming Hurley would obviously take on that mindset. But I think he would actually be more of a pacifist.
When i saw this i was like:
"WTF?
Men In Black + Light = Smoke Monster?!
That doesn´t make any fucking sense!!"
the reason i love lost is because it can be whatever you want it to be. Pick a version of lost, any version. Maybe it's hell, or a new chance in life. Maybe it's a dream/nightmare. It doesn't matter, because you can pick the version that suits you the best and it will all make sense. So what if someone doesn't like your version? Well too bad for them, because that is how you tied it all together and that defines your experience of lost.
MadsBG I agree; I do think the writers were sort of winging it but at the same time it was crafted to be open ended as possible and is essentially an allegory about life just as religious stories or many other forms of art are
@@hippiecheezburger5457 ok, so far I agree. Meanwhile I think, that te fact, that there were different writers, that they don't had the right information to continue the story and invented a lot of new stuff and mystery, or they had time-problems or whatever, so it happens, that so many answers are left open until today and I'm sure, the discussions will go on and on.
.... no. The writers were very clear on what happened and what it was all about. It wasn't hell or a dream/nightmare. You can't just take a story written by other people and say that it's now whatever you want it to be. That's silly.
@@davideagin5321the writers were making it up as they went along. A lot of fan theories came out during that first season and not a few of them were correct. Lindelof and crew knew this and tried to throw viewers off the scent by coming out and saying some of the theories were incorrect only to later turn around and include those elements into the story.
They didn’t expect fans to be so diligent in examining every single detail and figuring some things out so fast. They pivoted on quite a few things and left so many questions and mysteries they introduced to go unanswered.
They were definitely making it up as they went along after that first season.
wow Jacob really is a psycho... I really felt bad for the MIB...dude just wanted to go...
Tf you talkling bout? MiB klled their mother.
He was brainwashed, but still.
@@stillgotyourmom She slaughtered his village and his real mother
@@AltumNovo but it was also Jacobs Mother so it wasnt his decision alone. Didnt excuse the rest but the situation became like this and this doesnt explain the view on Jacob
I assumed he did become the monster becaues he couldn't survive the event but at the same time he couldn't be killed by Jacob.
Jacob spent his whole life with those two people. Then from here it was his first time being alone
One of the greatest shows ever.For me absolutely
@ Parker; In an earlier episode, MIB says that the devil took his body when speaking with Richard. At this point you can assume that the smoke monster is an identity of it's own and when the memories of MIB fused with it, it took on his form first and his motives became it. When Flocke sees Jacob he yells, "Don't tell me what I can't do!" This is because being in a body too long like he did with Locke will make it more like the original host. It's what they call a "ghost in the machine". Or you can take the more religious POV and feel that his soul got ripped from the body and fused with the light and became twisted.
This episode was one of the best ever.
I wonder, when Locke (In Season One) said he looked into the eye of the island and saw a bright light, does it have anything to do with THIS light?
In the 3rd season episode, "The Cost of Living" where Mr. Eko dies, John and Eko talk about this. John asks Eko what he saw because he saw a white, brilliant light. Eko responds, "That is not what I saw." My suspicion is that, as part of the long con he was playing throughout the series, MiB gave Locke a glimpse of the Heart of the Island. Whereas he was already planning to either turn Eko to his side or kill him -- and he did the latter.
Duh haha
I think a lot of things we can’t explain about the series wouldn’t even be known to the writers themselves. I've been thinking about this a lot too. There were actors who simply had to write them out of the series without knowing the end of the series .... At first, they didn’t even know why. If they had known the answers from the beginning, this is probably not how the story would have been presented. Regardless, the story was great, I wish there was another series like that.
@@NeoMyers it was the flash of light when the smoke monster reads someone's memories. It's seen with Juliet and Richard
@@koblaise the writers had it all planned out from the beginning. The light was the flash when the monster reads someone's memory
In the Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, a shadow monster emerges from the well in Kakiriko Village just like this after a man sealed it in.
i like how you said that Jacob was cynical because now that i think about it, the guy was. Jacob allowed many people to die to prove a point saying that their deaths served a greater purpose, and that was to change MIB's opinion of humanity. "They only die once, anything before that is progress." As you said, "Mother" saw that MIB was more in touch with humanity, and that Jacob was more in touch with the bigger picture. Ultimately, MIB upon his transformation, could only see the bad in men.
So Jacob created the smoke monster. Therefore, Jacob is the true mastermind of evil.
The smoke monster existed before mib or Jacob. It fused with mib consciousness when he fell in and gave him control over it.
It's not that hard to understand. When Jacob threw MIB into the light and he was merged into it, killing/separating him from his physical body and he becomes what most call the Smoke Monster. That energy was the "darkness" Jacob and before him, his mother, referenced as prior as something that could never leave the island or chaos would spread over the world. The latter about the mother's warning you can believe to be true or false but regardless, that meant MIB could not be allowed to leave the island as he was the embodiment of that darkness being he was merged into it when Jacob "killed" him by throwing him into it. MIB was not evil or Satan or whatever people like to call him, he was just a guy that wanted to leave the island and get away from his deranged family who wanted him to stay there forever and thanks to Jacob the momma's boy, he ends up being merged with the "darkness" of the island so he can't be allowed to leave since if he leaves, the darkness leaves, since they are merged thanks to Jacob.
Not really. The whole thing is a metaphor for good vs evil, dark vs light. When their mother warn of what will happen if the light goes out, and what the light represents, the thing is that darkness is not just the absence of light, but that it is just as tangible as the light. No one can say for sure what happened to MIB, but he was transformed by it. You can even write it off as him coming into contact with the light, put some of it out. If you look at light as positive energy, and dark as negative energy, and the absence of light allows the darkness to flourish, then his body coming into contact with the light infused some of that dark energy into him. We don't know exactly what the light is, but the mother did say there was some of it in everyone. So it essentially represented life/existence, as some kind of 4 dimensional material that basically gave birth to our universe or allowed life to exist in the first place.
Plot twist this was all just a prequel to Supernatural.
the light ripped his consciousness from his body separating it, in doing so it was all the negative and dark aspects that became smokey - the good absorbed by the light. as his mother said, this is much worse than death forever stuck, disembodied never being able to leave the island and never able to die - just eternal bitterness and hate whilst being aware of this and hating it.
this episode is key to understand the whole series.
Fuck you
Carnage rules 😂😂😂 wtf man
The whole cork and fountain structure inside the light was built after this episode. It's safe to assume that MIB was just sucked into the lights pure energy and thats why it only changed him and not jack or desmond
Yeah, the fact that the man in black knew that turning off the light would destroy the island clearly indicates that he had done it before, I theorize that's how the 2nd island formed, it broke off
"It only ends once, anything that happens before that, is just progress" is the sentence you mean? :) Jacob allowed people to die, but also gave them the tools to survive but most of the time MIB was right, so they died. Jacob never took any actions to the outcome. But Jacob´s point was not to only proof MIB wrong, his ultimate mission was to keep MIb and that evilness inside of him inside the Island that worked as an cork of the bottle that inside helds the evilness.
After his death,he became more sociable :-))
Moral of the story: Don't go in caves with a bright light coming out of it, wried shit happons when you do.
Wasn't the smoke monster not supposed to detach itself from the ground ? Thought that's why it couldn't get thru the sonar fences.
I know it's a petty comment
+billydvan It also wasn't supposed to be able to leave the island but it did.
@@NotYouNotMe-fw1fhWhen did it leave the island? Do you mean on the freighter when he appeared to Michael as Christian?
@@battleonfan1 Yes and as Christian to Jack.
@@NotYouNotMe-fw1fh I think that was the Island, not the MiB.
@@elgatodabloons except all Christian encounter s we're established to be mib.
One reason Jacob is an asshole is that he was played by Mark Pellegrino, the same actor who played a much bigger asshole (Paul Bennett) in the show Dexter. Jacob turned out to be the protagonist in this show, although it was Jack fighting in his stead at the end.
+Очешуенный Диван yes!
He plays Lucifer in Supernatural and Jedikiah in The Tommorow People
Don’t forget, there was no proper story arc. Writers admitted that they were just throwing in any weird shit they could think of.
The most funny on whole thing in this scene is that Jacob was able to drag his brother thru all the jungle and throw him into the cave even w hen his brother trying to resist. Like damn, Jacob is strong like Arnie or Sly.
Although I love the show. It looks like this show was made up as they went along. There are so many things unanswered. I don't think the makers knew what the end would look like. I think they themselves got lost, keeping up with the flash forwards, backwards and sideways. Let alone what the island is. It explains why they tell you what the island is towards the end of the show.
osman khan : You are very wrong. Lost is probably the most complex show I have ever seen(and I saw many) and most of it makes sense from the beginning. All you have to do is rewatch it a couple of times and you will understand it. Lost is about good and evil and that all that matters in our lives is love. The island is the place that keeps the darkness at bay. If someone harness that dakness and let it escape it will destroy the island and in turn the world. This will affect people in their afterlife as they will be in limbo for eternity. The producers knew exactly what they were doing from the beginning, there are many instances where I can prove it to you. The sending to the past of the candidates was a part of MiB loophole. He was the one that send them there, just watch it again and you will see the sequence. It all starts from convincing Locke not to push the button. That's also why he was surprised when Jacob told him they are coming, because he believed they were gone for good.
+DTalesMatter plz explain why are they protecting the island because the smoke monster was made by jacob wat abt the people before the ones who were there before jacob and the smoke monster who were they protecting it from???
Aly Atiq : Protecting the island is eternal with or without the monster. The mother was protecting the source from the people. Hugo did the same afterwards. If some people found a way to manipulate the source and destroy the island it would have the same effect as the SM. The SM could not go to the source because of the "rules". He could only manipulate people in doing his bidding OR lose his form thus the rules will not exist anymore.
+DTalesMatter
well thanks very much atleast now lost makes sense
+Martin The Great™
I have watched it like three times bt ive never got the explanation u gave me... can u plz tell me wat episode
So that's the exotic matter Dharma talked about....
i think jacob's brother died by the headwound, and the smoke monster just emulates jacob's brother.
I think anyone else apart from Desmond would be killed if they're in contact with the light. MiB got turned into smoke because a rule was made by their adoptive mother so that he can't die by Jacob's hand no matter what. In short the island won't let him die because of that, so it spat him back out in another form instead (since his body probably couldn't withstand that level of EM).
Space Bunny but the smoke monster was exist in the island before MiB fall into the light cave.
He was right about one thing, their mother was crazy.
When the MiB was thrown into the source, my guess is that the electromagnetic energy is so strong that is ripped his consciousness from his body & infused it with that energy. That's why we see his physical body but when he becomes the Smoke Monster, he retains all of his memories & personality. The reason he can imitate the dead & only the dead, is because they are just bodies void of occupants that he can now copy or 'download'.
This is the fate worse than death that the mother spoke of if you went down into the light. Having no physical body & being forever trapped, never able to die or move on. The reason she knows this is because the same thing happened to her, which explains how she decimated the village & the well. As for how she was killed by a knife if she was a Smoke Monster, well perhaps being a protector & a smoke monster at the same time rants you the ability to absolve yourself of the curse somehow, but I'm convinced she was a smoke monster as well.
The idea of the smoke monster always being down in the cave is something I never agreed with. Jacob wouldn't refer to the smoke monster as him or he if it wasn't still his brother, not some ancient evil force. Not to mention the whole backstory of the MiB would feel completely pointless if it wasn't still him or his consciousness. His morality & patience have just deteriorated over his 2000 year life.
The story of it makes no sense. When Keamy klls Alex Ben summons the Smoke while Jacob is still in charge. So the smoke isnt actually a self controlled individual but the so called MiB is it in person.
Yes it's definitely still him. The evil incarnate thing was just Jacob's twisting the truth to draw people to his cause. The confirmation that it's him is mainly in the sound. The sound in the light makes the same sound as the smoke monster. The electromagnetism is known to have consciousness altering effects with desmond
@@stillgotyourmomthe way Ben summons the monster in that episode is the same way Desmond turns off the light. They pull a plug and the water drains out. This clearly disables an electromagnetic wall which as the man in black says he cans fly across to the 2nd island in smoke form so there are walls. The smoke monster specifically stops keamiesmen from shooting Claire and Locke saving them for his plans down the road, but he didn't kill them all because he had plans to kill everyone of the freighter which had many candidates on it like the submarine is season 6 all at once
@@user-hu9vi7nk1l but how? As its told the sonar fence is blocking it and when Keamy comes to the camp with Alex its deactivated and when that happened before with Kate going over it the smoke came there quick as the smoke detects lifes on the island. When Ben activates the mechanism it just suggests that he has the monster on the leash but still its never explained if the monster and the MiB are 2 different types of forms or 1 transforming. Thats just a myth. For me MiB gets sacrificed by Jacob and this releases the smoke as a wild island predator helping to get victims. As you saw after Jacobs brother got thrown into the light the smoke comes out and flies away while MiB is found next to the place. This suggests these are still 2 forms and as said that whats happening after you enter the light is worse than death my theory is that Jacobs brother lost his soul into that light and has lost his human feelings to keep other bad humans away or kll them and in exchange for his life the smoke came out free.
@@user-hu9vi7nk1l or lets say that the smoke might be Jacobs punishement to stay alone after he klled his brother which was forbidden. So his brothers curse is a lost soul and the island protection and Jacobs is the smoke handling all people that could live with him together.
top 3 favorite episodes...
I love this show
Smoke monster is bad ass when released!
Why could Jack as new jacob been wounded by the MIB? Why jacob doesn't protect his followers like Sayid, Jin and Sun, because he touched them too- like he touched those who survived the whole misery?
Why did Jacob tell Kate she couldn't be the protector because she became a mother - and yet he had no qualms about bringing pregnant Claire to the island.
@@bertramsey with other words: it makes no sense, nothing seemes logically. We can tear on every possible end and the results are not satisfying. But in the last scenes it becomes clear, that Jack would be the new protector, beause this was his unconcious motivation go go back. And he must be the HERO anyway, the Winner, like he was during the series.That was evident. Not really clear are jacobs abilities- ok, he could leave the island, he knews everything about the people on his list. Did HE gave this informations to Ben and his group? But why did Ben torture them and attack them and ....Was Ben obsessed by MIB and thought, it was Jacob? My brain fells like in carousel now.
@@verenamenzel4701 Some fans are satisfied with the answers they got because they just wanted a big action/fantasy/adventure and didn't want to think too hard about what was going on in the hearts and minds of the characters. They'd say we are "nit-picking". Sorry, but I am not a fan of "comic books". I loved LOST because it was "deep", mysterious and romantic. Besides no acknowledgment to Kate&Sawyer, the couple they gave the MOST time and attention to over the seasons, all the answers to the mysteries were things they could have just made up on the spot. There were no hints in previous episodes, for instance, of a golden river in a cave. yeah, we'll never know how the Others knew everything about the LOSTies, I feel like there are missing pieces that got left in the dust because they either forgot or changed their minds.
@@bertramsey My intention to watch lost, was because I loved evangeline, since I saw her in the hobbit and antman movies. I only knew, that she was part of the cast for lost and started to watch it in dec.18 on amazon prime. I had no idea about the stuff. I' m also not interested in sci- fi, horror or crazy mystery movies .Then after 2-3 seasons i was so thrilled and wow- I bought the dvds and when it comes to that ending I was so shocked and dissappointed, that I need a few days to recover. I'd never expected, that this would ever happen. Then started to read the comments and answered,It was like therapy. My interest was to see, how the characters would develop and how they manage the challenges. The other stuff was extra, so I don't care much about. But the influence of Jacob or MIB seemed important in a way, people behaved. When i thought about Ben was so evil- he must have been under the influence of MIB without knowing that, he was his tool to turn the wheel, murderd locke, returned with the oceanic 6 and the dead body of locke. So MIB was ready to finish his masterplan: ben killed Jacob and MIB thought, he has won.
@@bertramsey everything was planned out from the beginning. They were hints everywhere, they're just so subtle
Jacob pulled him like it was wrestling Smokey could have just sat down
Man Jacob hasn't washed his shirt for 500 years or something :O
Is unwillingly and sadly killing the brother u love n regretting it a Mark Pellegrino thing?
I get it! The smoke monster is now a Death Eater! xD
How did this episode ruin it for you? I'm curious.
such an amazing show, i love lost.
The episode was very good, just some of you expected something real or what, but it was never supposed to end by a real way. So that's the reason, some people just werent okay with this episode, because they didnt know what they should expect, basically you were too daft to get it.
Scarface The typical elitists comment bullshit which represent Lost fandom in the nutshell.
Someone who know how Jacob became a "magician"? He is very old, and gave Richard unlimited life as well?
What gave Jacob that power, and why can't the smoke monster kill him?
I possible missed something?
jacob was a sheltered mother's boy who was a bit slow. MIB was the smartest of the three, and their 'mother' wanted him to be more like Jacob
Best episode ever
Show never explained just what in the hell actually happened down there. At ALL.
Maybe you're just dumb
She deserved it!She also said ''thank you'',so it was something good for her!
So, there exists an island that supersedes humanity yet operates in the most primal ways humans behave, and that’s where you go when you die (if you’re special) to keep cosmic darkness from ruling the universe?
Do I have that right?
It's funny how this was the only episode I watched all the way thru outside of the one's from 2004. I thought it was better than many academy award winning movies.
So...explanation about the smoke monster.
-Jacob can't kill his brother
-The light of the island = the afterlife, the flashsideways. That's why the island is so much connected to the death AND that's why the island can travel through space and time. There is no "now" in this place. And in the afterlife you remember everything in your life
-But just before his brother enter the light he was killed by the rock on his head. This is something wrong.
Something dead CAN'T ENTER the afterlife because the afterlife means there is something after death.
MIB now is unkillable, he's like death himself. He have some powers of the afterlife.
*He can take the body of dead people
*He can scan people lives to know what they did, just like in the flashsideways when they have the "awakening"
*He became like a judge , like Anubis. He scan people and tell them if they are good or bad people (the trick is MIB will never be satisfy of humanity because his goal is to prove to Jacob that humans are at their hearts, evil. He proved it by killing Eko .)
The purpose of Lost is a show about letting go. Let go our mistakes and forgive ourselves. This is the most hardest thing in our life. The monster use Losties path and past to torment them. Jack's dad ; Kate's horse ; Sawyer's boar ; Eko's brother etc.. Because the only way Jacob can find a successor is a candidate that will fully let go the civilisation and what he lived BEFORE the island. The Monster on the other hand, wants to be human again and leave this place, he's the true antagonist of the show and one of the best antagonist in a tv show series because the monster is full of the worst thing ever on the show which is:
not forgive ouselves for our mistakes. That's why there is flashbacks in every episodes, so we can understand every characters and what they have to fight in their innermind to be the true jacob's candidate.
Oh and by the way, when Desmond realised he is in the afterlife and had flashes of his life...it's in a IRM machine. An ELECTROMAGNETIC machine.
I’d give anything to know what actually happens when mib goes in to the source of the island. And better yet, id love to see how he turns in to the smoke monster, or where the monster was in the heart of the island, why they never shown more pisses me right off!
Most people miss that the man in black & Jacob are probably the black and white stones in someone else game. Much like normal mortals are just chess pieces for them.
Smoke monster just thinks he's MIB. MIB died here. Smoke monster has been around since ancient Egyptian time, and talked to MIB when he was a boy.
this
Across the sez was the most beutiful and awesome epiesoed luv lost
If you really think about it jacob only had himself to blame, he created the beast, i kinda felt sorry for the m.i.b because he really got fucked over good and proper, when the m.i.b/locke killed jacob i think it was justified after watching across the sea episode, paybacks a bitch.
Wouldn't birds, fish, insects, etc. have gone in there as well? Why isn't the island covered in thousands of little animal smoke monsters?
It’s very obvious. This is a Ying/Yang thing. Light/Dark the two can’t be separated, there must be a balance always. The Light and The Darkness/Smoke monster both exist together in the heart of the island. UNTIL a human consciousness comes into contact with the Heart. The darkness energy fuses with his consciousness/soul and copies mibs desires to leave the island, it develops a want to escape the Light and the Island. Basically the whole balance system of the light energy/positive energy and dark energy/negative energy is thrown off. Darkness is the absence of light. The darkness exists within the heart of the island with the light but “Mother” protector has the abilities of both energies. Jacob inherits the light energy from her and MiB fuses with the dark energy. This forms a new but different balance. ⚖️ the scale in the cave remember?
Different because they both are tied to the island/heart and it’s split between two souls instead of 1. If the smoke monster/mib leave the island the balance would be tilted towards the dark energy. All humanity would suffer. If he escapes and the light is turned back on I imagine he’d retain his powers of the smoke monster off the island. Which would be a complete disaster for the world. The smoke monster/ dark energy released upon the world.
Up until this point I assume the darkness has no other form it’s just smoke, this is the first time it scans someone’s memories, emotions, consciousness. MiB becomes its new “self” embodiment of darkness. Jacobs brother is gone, but a part of him and the monster exists. Because of the rules they cannot kill each other.
Smoke Monster was already down there.
What happened when his brother fell in the Heart ? - He become an antimatter, dark energy ?
Yep
Daury davis through electromagnetism ?
+Wiesław Puchacki I think so, I think Google might explain it better
Daury davis there's nothing google except that the BS making some mechanical sounds and that there's a cloud of black smoke -_-
My interpretation was that the monster isn't smoke, it's darkness. The light keeps the darkness at bay but when Jacob turned it off it got out. It takes on the form of dead people and took on Jacob's brother. As he was the first, it took on all his memories and emotions and it's first desire was to leave the island as he did. But it's not him.
i still think lost was best in the very early days, when it was just a bunch of crash survivors trying to survive,
the weirder it got, the worse it got.
i don't even like to think of when the island starts teleporting through time and space...
That was never what the show was about dude. Pay attention
Lay your weary head to rest
Don't you cry no more
(Sorry, I had to. It's Lucifer)
Noxxie
I love you.😂
Boy did this show go off the rails
After watching the whole show you should also realize why he did this. It was explained during the conversation with Richard. He wanted people to make their own choices without him forcing them to do things, because he was forced to do something he didn't want by his mother and didn't want to do this to others.
They should make a prequel about how the monster got trapped there
The light and dark dragons at odds.
@GrinningTurtle42 if by 'purgatory,' you mean place they can't leave, then yes, you're right. it's called being stranded on an island. they're stuck there, alive. if they died, they died. then they moved onto the flash sideways, where they were all reunited in The End.
I would love to see a scene where black smoke first came to Jacob in form of MIB... That would be awesome...
This episode was bad, but it could never ruin the whole series for me. Too many great television moments for one episode to ruin it. The Constant, the incident, "we have to go back", etc.
I think it was a great episode. I liked Jacob's acting
i think jacob might be lucifer (the light bearer) makes sense
but lucifer is something like a devil, yet jacob is the good guy
lucifer disguises as an angel of light.. and if you rewatch lost again you notice jacob isn't entirely good
if you watch supernatural jacob is lucifer lol
HE IS LUCIFER!!
i still dont get why jack didnt become the next smoke monster, especially once the old one was destroyed. because he was the protector before, so he couldn't? they rushed the ending, just like in GOT.
The flow of light was dammed afterwards when egyptians built the masonry, so he didn't go into the true source like mib did.
they should've stuck with the original plan and kept the smoke monster a robot
They should develop a limited series about the Egyption Era of the island.
I'd like that.
actually not at all. "mother" loved MIB more than she loved Jacob. Jacob was a kind of believer first, but when the years went down and the time passed he became much more cynical but still a believer of man. MIB wasn´t drove by intelligence or being smart but creed and the feeling of being betrayed (that he was, I can´t deny that).
I went to say "Bishop what are you worrying about this pesky humans for?" lol
@alphamonX actually the writers of lost written the ending the same time that they written the beginning.
So if the MIB became the smoke monster then how come Jacob found his body in the river and said he was dead?
ParkerProduction101 The monster seeks to absorb not only the looks but the personality of anyone’s body, hence why the temple dwellers bury their dead. My guess is because the MIB is the first person the smoke monster sees in however many hundred years that’s what it tethered to the most. When it appeared as Christian it clearly retains all of Christians memories, same with John Locke. I’d guess that’s why he was so attached to the man in black. It became the monsters defacto personality
They never explain how he could turn into smoke
I really wish the creators of the show, Lindelof and Abrams and everyone would write a book, explaining every single mystery they set up in the series cus people don't know what to believe.
I don't know why ppl think Jacob was the "good guy". What did he do that was good?
He saved the world by protecting the light mainly. But he did other good things too like healing juliets sister and dogans son. As well as giving Richard the chance to speak to his wife again and a number of other things
@Xinomorphus They did that because they didn't want to reveal it. What do you think she/Jacob called him while he was growing up? "You in the black"? Besides, didn't Titus say he knew the name of MiB's and its significance?
@spoty212 becouse jacobs brother enterd the light and the light consist of dead souls, when smoke arives u can hear the screams and stuff thoes are the people who died on that island.
@GrinningTurtle42 i don't think that's the point the original poster was trying to make. 'face it it's some kind of purgatory' strikes me as this person didn't understand the show at all, and that's what i thought you were trying to defend. in the sense of the whispers, then yes, you're correct.
if he cant kill him then why the hell he died?
You know, after watching the whole show, realizing how Jacob refused to reveal himself to anybody the 2000 or so years he was the protector of the island...sounds like he's got a bit of an ego. "I'm too good to even show myself to ordinary people, only "special" ones."
It's pretty clear that Richard is the one who helps Jacob understand that he can't just sit back and do nothing, because MiB will. That's the first time Jacob realizes he has to be more involved and makes Richard his intermediary. Jacob's whole thing is about letting people have their own choices because he was never given one.
And the story clearly shows that Jacob ONLY ever showed himself to Richard, no "special" people ever saw him alive other than Ben who sees him once before killing him. Jacob doesn't talk to anyone else. He only talks to the candidates after he's dead, for a very limited time.
Why didn't Jack and Desmond turn into smoke monsters when they went into the light hole? You can't even use some kind of magical invulnerability excuse because Jack was also made immortal like the MIB. The only variable is that the MIB was unconscious which seems like a weird distinction for the light hole to make.
Desmond won't be affected by electromagnetism (and the heart isn't more than a path to the electromagnetic bag lying under the island) and Jack didn't really expose himself to it as much as MiB because the heart was uncorked and the light was gone. I assume Jack space-travelled before the amount of electromagnetism in the cave was big enough to kill him. That or he wasn't immortal anymore because he had already given his position as protector to Hurley (in this case, again, he would space-travel before reaching fatal levels of electromagnetism; and we know this can happen because both Locke and Ben exposed themselves to it in small amounts before moving the Island and space-travelling).
Haha, I did "understood" it very well ;)
@FLUDZOR Nah, it just took, as he said, "my body/my humanity" It's him, he's just a monster now.
This shit still makes absolutely no sense to this day.
@ThatNerdJStone Can you give me the source of this information?