I may be missing something but, because you're using polluted water to cool one side, and hydrogen to cool the other it drastically effects the results. Maybe swapping the gas tank for a liquid one with polluted water and have it run through the hydrogen/nullifier room? Nothing about your video is incorrect, it's just less of an apples to apples comparison.
That's a good observation, and for clarity I probably should have had the same substance being circulated for each system, but I am pretty confident the medium to transfer heat doesn't impact the amount of total cooling that is done with the AETN. Just to double-check, I ran another experiment as I'm typing this comment, and the result was that the amount of cooling done with a loop of polluted water cooled the tank of water LESS than the hydrogen loop, very likely because the amount of volume of the polluted water is much higher than the volume of hydrogen, so it takes more energy to cool down everything involved (final results was hydrogen loop = 30 to 21.5 C, polluted water loop = 30 to 22.5C). So, if anything, I gave it the best chance it could to cool the adjacent water tank by using a medium with less density, but it's still just a matter of total volume vs max cooling potential. The ceiling on how much the AETN can cool will always be there. I think you might be confusing it with Wheezeworts, which have a much bigger cooling effect depending on the gas it is interacting with.
The amount of heat dissipated is directly related to the medium used. In this case, using a liquid is much stronger than using any kind of gas for heat transfer. Maybe you could build the standard nullifier cooling metal tiles separated with a temperature-sensor-controlled door, the tiles transferring to a radiant pipe with liquid in it. This way you would definitely get a much better heat transfer.
@Magnet_MD i think you misunderstood. He wasn't talking about wheezeworts, he was talking about just one part of this absolutely ridiculous, no control, apples to oranges comparison. You could've said only the nullifier really sucks, and put a black screen up for five minutes, and ended up with more credibility.
Yeah it offers an economical pre-supercoolant way to reach very cold temperatures, though its still a very time consuming process. Tried one run sweeten sour gas. My rig probably wasnt most optimum (cooled directly sour gas instead of using hydrogen as a medium), but it took probably some 50-100 cycles to really reach those -160C temperatures
You guys forget that thermal regulator can do the same thing much faster. It’s best to demolish these (if you can, I don't remember if you can). You can even go to reach liquid hydrogen temperatures before supercoolant using it, use thermal regulator to create liquid oxygen, then use liquid oxygen in a thermal auquatuner to create liquid hydrogen.
@@blazeraz7666 yeah, I realised later when I tested this, because when I wrote this, I was just theorising. But you can still technically get liquid hydrogen by overcooling using a thermal regulator, albeit you'll need a proper set-up and stuff, to the point that it's probably not worth it.
I wish that this was just an evaluation of just the item or at least compare it to the other options like the wheezeworts as well. That and it would be a good evaluation to go amount of hydrogen used per amount of heat change for both systems. It would be a good way to easily say this uses this much resource for this much result vs. this other thing if the intention is to compare and contrast items. That being said, it's always nice to have a new video from you and these are only suggestions to consider, not criticisms.
No worries at all! I tend to not get into the math of things that much only because it's hard to see how that math lines up to a practical use case. Personally, I feel like too much of ONI is discussed in theory and not what's reasonable to do during a normal survival run, and it causes a lot of confusion, so that's why I try to avoid theory as much as I can. In this case, I just wanted to compare it to the standard that I recommend in my walkthroughs just because this will be the only time I'll talk about AETNs (most likely) and I talk about Steam Turbines and Aquatuners all the time. I'm sure the AETN was more efficient for the hydrogen that was spent, but the amount it cools over time is pretty minimal, and it just doesn't seem worth it to me. I will be talking about wheezeworts soon!
Earth Worm Jim's nostril hair?! Wut? 😂 I think the AETN is great for early-mid game. It took me forever to acquire and understand turbine and aqua tuners. The AETN was clutch for me cooling before those complex others to me. Plus it's mostly passive and fairly cheap to run but lacks heavy duty capacity.
Despite Thermo Nullifiers reduce the temperature of gasses, a conductive plate could increase it's efectiveness by running a liquid rather than hydrogen.
Ya your burning ~80g/s on the AT but only 10g/s on the AETN. Limit the AT to 10 g/s and compare. Now try cooling some sour gas to -168. Sure you can use AT and liquid o2 (4 times less efficient then water). With a good heat exchanger I was able to do about 700-800 g/s Sure once you get supercolant AT becomes better at 1181 kDTU vs 80 kDTU for AETN. You would need 15 AETNs and actaully consume more hydrogen.
I think the AETN is not that unreasonable. It's able to cool water rather well, but not like you did in the video. I generally use 0 power recursive systems that can cycle endlessly until a desired result. So for me, my AETN is usually able to cool flowing water by 2-4 degrees after the initial start up period.
Actually the problem is hydrogens conductivity way less than water. Also i made a cooling chamber just radiant liquid pipe filled with hot water. With nullifier even without athmosphere isnt hydrogen, there is renewable -20 degree per second with 10 kg water pipes(i circulated the water all the tiles that nullifier touches)
I wish there was more cooling options other than just the steam turbine. The game makes you have to use it one way or another since it is the only effective way to delete heat. They could add maybe a geothermal generator that could use extreme temperatures into energy or even something that doesn't produce energy per se, but maybe delete heat by consuming some resource that you could get another way. Maybe a volcanic plant? Maybe a heat absorbing critter? Maybe a structure turning the input cooler by spending another resouece? Like an inverse klin that uses coal to transform items but it uses something else. Just saying.
I would say that I am a moderately knowledgeable player - started maybe 10-15 colonies but never really got past the mid game. In my current game, I used one for the first time in combination with my electrolyzers and oxygen production, and since the hydrogen generator cannot fully keep up with the total production of hydrogen, 10g/s seems like a pretty minimal cost to help with the cooling at this point of the mid game. It isn't really coping with everything else I have thrown at it (metal refiner, cooling hot water from cool steam vent, I wanted to see how much it could really do) but since you already have to deal with 15g/s of surplus hydrogen, could be worse. Also if I look at the investment of resources to begin with, like at the lower level of tech required and no plastics/steel, AETN is a pretty good deal, even if it isn't *as good* as what you can get when you hit the high end.
It's not bad, for sure, the same way that wheezeworts aren't bad. But they do have a limit and that limit is nowhere near as high as the other equipment. I figure I might as well solve it the same way for any problem and not need to spend too much time with something that will only get me so far, and isn't in particularly convenient locations.
AETN might not be as good as TAT, but 10 g/s of hydrogen? People don't realize how small it is. It's 1/10th of a hydrogen generator. If you really want to compare these two setups, you should look at 12 AETN against one TAT or something. Yes, TAT is a beast when it comes to cooling, however, nothing stops you from using both for different things. XD
For posterity, this experiment is worthless. Cooling using a gas vs. cooling using a liquid, the liquid always wins because the pipe packets carry 10kg of liquid but only 1kg of gas, so much more mass is transferring heat each tick.
You establish a bias of one over the other in your intro. Then you handicap one side by using different thermal transfer mediums. The nullifier uses no power, the aquatuner + turbine operates at a net power consumption far in excess of the power you could generate with a SPOM to provide hydrogen to both sides. Are you an inept politician trying to sell a pet project to your audience? Because it sure sounds like you're an inept politician trying to sell your pet project ro the public
If anything, I gave the AETN a benefit by not having as much transfer medium to also cool. See the pinned comment on the follow-up test I ran. The nullifier doesn't use power, but it also doesn't cool enough things to really justify using it over the steam turbine + aquatuner combo. A SPOM would also no longer be self-powered if you were using the hydrogen to run an AETN. This is a pretty big reaction to a silly video. You're still allowed to use it if you want to! I just don't find that much of a reason when a better cooling option already exists.
There's just a little thing to keep in mind. The aquatuner and steam engines are high-end science research. So, if you are on a hot asteroid and need cooling asap, the nullifier would possibly be the way to go. Yeah I know... you need to find the nullifier first. But after setting up a system with it, you're still allowed to switch to the aquatuner/steam engine after it's available😊
That's a good point! My only experiences on a hot asteroid involved an aquatuner ASAP (without a steam turbine, just dumping the hot water afterward), but I'm sure there are situations where the AETN makes sense.
@@Magnet_MD Consider spaced out, and if you don't have access to the other two types of science you'll be waiting a long time for that top tier goodies :) I cursed my other rock and it has the radiation I need... Heh.
I may be missing something but, because you're using polluted water to cool one side, and hydrogen to cool the other it drastically effects the results. Maybe swapping the gas tank for a liquid one with polluted water and have it run through the hydrogen/nullifier room? Nothing about your video is incorrect, it's just less of an apples to apples comparison.
Yes you are right if you look at 4:33 you will see that the hydrogen is at -54.4 °C
That's a good observation, and for clarity I probably should have had the same substance being circulated for each system, but I am pretty confident the medium to transfer heat doesn't impact the amount of total cooling that is done with the AETN.
Just to double-check, I ran another experiment as I'm typing this comment, and the result was that the amount of cooling done with a loop of polluted water cooled the tank of water LESS than the hydrogen loop, very likely because the amount of volume of the polluted water is much higher than the volume of hydrogen, so it takes more energy to cool down everything involved (final results was hydrogen loop = 30 to 21.5 C, polluted water loop = 30 to 22.5C). So, if anything, I gave it the best chance it could to cool the adjacent water tank by using a medium with less density, but it's still just a matter of total volume vs max cooling potential.
The ceiling on how much the AETN can cool will always be there. I think you might be confusing it with Wheezeworts, which have a much bigger cooling effect depending on the gas it is interacting with.
I appreciate the response! Thank you for the clarification. @@Magnet_MD
The amount of heat dissipated is directly related to the medium used. In this case, using a liquid is much stronger than using any kind of gas for heat transfer. Maybe you could build the standard nullifier cooling metal tiles separated with a temperature-sensor-controlled door, the tiles transferring to a radiant pipe with liquid in it. This way you would definitely get a much better heat transfer.
@Magnet_MD i think you misunderstood. He wasn't talking about wheezeworts, he was talking about just one part of this absolutely ridiculous, no control, apples to oranges comparison.
You could've said only the nullifier really sucks, and put a black screen up for five minutes, and ended up with more credibility.
They're ideal for cooling your base oxygen in my experience. Use part of the excess hydrogen to make sure the base temp stays in check.
You can regulate how much cooling an aquatuner provides though, not so easy with the AETN
@@ArtemSayapov You can just automate the hydrogen line depending on how cold you want it.
Really nice production quality on this video! I can see your hard work. Great stuff!
AETN is good for cooling gases. It can go way beyond -50°C when surrounded by hydrogen
Yeah it offers an economical pre-supercoolant way to reach very cold temperatures, though its still a very time consuming process. Tried one run sweeten sour gas. My rig probably wasnt most optimum (cooled directly sour gas instead of using hydrogen as a medium), but it took probably some 50-100 cycles to really reach those -160C temperatures
You guys forget that thermal regulator can do the same thing much faster. It’s best to demolish these (if you can, I don't remember if you can).
You can even go to reach liquid hydrogen temperatures before supercoolant using it, use thermal regulator to create liquid oxygen, then use liquid oxygen in a thermal auquatuner to create liquid hydrogen.
@@ArtemSayapov Liquid oxygen freezes at -220 you cant get liquid hydrogen with liquid oxygen
@@blazeraz7666 yeah, I realised later when I tested this, because when I wrote this, I was just theorising.
But you can still technically get liquid hydrogen by overcooling using a thermal regulator, albeit you'll need a proper set-up and stuff, to the point that it's probably not worth it.
I wish that this was just an evaluation of just the item or at least compare it to the other options like the wheezeworts as well. That and it would be a good evaluation to go amount of hydrogen used per amount of heat change for both systems. It would be a good way to easily say this uses this much resource for this much result vs. this other thing if the intention is to compare and contrast items.
That being said, it's always nice to have a new video from you and these are only suggestions to consider, not criticisms.
No worries at all! I tend to not get into the math of things that much only because it's hard to see how that math lines up to a practical use case. Personally, I feel like too much of ONI is discussed in theory and not what's reasonable to do during a normal survival run, and it causes a lot of confusion, so that's why I try to avoid theory as much as I can.
In this case, I just wanted to compare it to the standard that I recommend in my walkthroughs just because this will be the only time I'll talk about AETNs (most likely) and I talk about Steam Turbines and Aquatuners all the time. I'm sure the AETN was more efficient for the hydrogen that was spent, but the amount it cools over time is pretty minimal, and it just doesn't seem worth it to me.
I will be talking about wheezeworts soon!
i mean... that hydrogen vent next door in my base makes this... tempting...
Earth Worm Jim's nostril hair?! Wut? 😂
I think the AETN is great for early-mid game. It took me forever to acquire and understand turbine and aqua tuners. The AETN was clutch for me cooling before those complex others to me. Plus it's mostly passive and fairly cheap to run but lacks heavy duty capacity.
That's fair, it is more straightforward, but definitely lacks the ability to push heavy cooling needs.
The systems don't have the same thermal capacity because the medium has its own capacity, and poluted water higher capacity than any gas.
Despite Thermo Nullifiers reduce the temperature of gasses, a conductive plate could increase it's efectiveness by running a liquid rather than hydrogen.
Newish player, I haven't used them much. The AETN doesn't generate any heat though, right? Is the aquatuner/steam turbine combo net negative heat?
Yeah, it doesn't produce heat. Steam turbine and aquatuner is extremely temperature negative, just more complex (and far more powerful)
I dont know about aquatuner, but you can also cool stuff more by dumping heat into the hydrogen fed to the AETN...
This isn’t a fair comparison; you’re using gas radiant pipe vs. liquid radiant pipe. Liquid radiant pipe carries more thermal energy
Ya your burning ~80g/s on the AT but only 10g/s on the AETN. Limit the AT to 10 g/s and compare. Now try cooling some sour gas to -168. Sure you can use AT and liquid o2 (4 times less efficient then water). With a good heat exchanger I was able to do about 700-800 g/s Sure once you get supercolant AT becomes better at 1181 kDTU vs 80 kDTU for AETN. You would need 15 AETNs and actaully consume more hydrogen.
I think the AETN is not that unreasonable. It's able to cool water rather well, but not like you did in the video.
I generally use 0 power recursive systems that can cycle endlessly until a desired result.
So for me, my AETN is usually able to cool flowing water by 2-4 degrees after the initial start up period.
I don't think I've ever said "sweet dripping earthworm nostrils" but I think I will in the future.
Actually the problem is hydrogens conductivity way less than water. Also i made a cooling chamber just radiant liquid pipe filled with hot water. With nullifier even without athmosphere isnt hydrogen, there is renewable -20 degree per second with 10 kg water pipes(i circulated the water all the tiles that nullifier touches)
I wish there was more cooling options other than just the steam turbine. The game makes you have to use it one way or another since it is the only effective way to delete heat. They could add maybe a geothermal generator that could use extreme temperatures into energy or even something that doesn't produce energy per se, but maybe delete heat by consuming some resource that you could get another way. Maybe a volcanic plant? Maybe a heat absorbing critter? Maybe a structure turning the input cooler by spending another resouece? Like an inverse klin that uses coal to transform items but it uses something else. Just saying.
I would say that I am a moderately knowledgeable player - started maybe 10-15 colonies but never really got past the mid game. In my current game, I used one for the first time in combination with my electrolyzers and oxygen production, and since the hydrogen generator cannot fully keep up with the total production of hydrogen, 10g/s seems like a pretty minimal cost to help with the cooling at this point of the mid game. It isn't really coping with everything else I have thrown at it (metal refiner, cooling hot water from cool steam vent, I wanted to see how much it could really do) but since you already have to deal with 15g/s of surplus hydrogen, could be worse. Also if I look at the investment of resources to begin with, like at the lower level of tech required and no plastics/steel, AETN is a pretty good deal, even if it isn't *as good* as what you can get when you hit the high end.
It's not bad, for sure, the same way that wheezeworts aren't bad. But they do have a limit and that limit is nowhere near as high as the other equipment. I figure I might as well solve it the same way for any problem and not need to spend too much time with something that will only get me so far, and isn't in particularly convenient locations.
Right side is only using 10g/s hydrogen and 240w
it's important
Edit: oh not even 240w it's like 4.8w
500 gr pump but 10g usage, it's like free
AETN might not be as good as TAT, but 10 g/s of hydrogen? People don't realize how small it is. It's 1/10th of a hydrogen generator. If you really want to compare these two setups, you should look at 12 AETN against one TAT or something. Yes, TAT is a beast when it comes to cooling, however, nothing stops you from using both for different things. XD
sweet drippin earthworm nostrils! another great video. thanks!
I use AETN to cool my oxygen going to the base
If you don't have plastic your base will die without it. As you will not have access to the steam turbine.
I prefer running a simple ice cooling loop until plastic is available. If you need it early you can always ranch some dreckos.
Sweet drippin' earthworm nostrils! Spectacular.
Gas reservoirs can't flood, color me suprised.
This comment contains nine words consisting of at least three symbols.
Ignore it :P
For posterity, this experiment is worthless. Cooling using a gas vs. cooling using a liquid, the liquid always wins because the pipe packets carry 10kg of liquid but only 1kg of gas, so much more mass is transferring heat each tick.
I have 3 of these in my map
You establish a bias of one over the other in your intro. Then you handicap one side by using different thermal transfer mediums. The nullifier uses no power, the aquatuner + turbine operates at a net power consumption far in excess of the power you could generate with a SPOM to provide hydrogen to both sides.
Are you an inept politician trying to sell a pet project to your audience? Because it sure sounds like you're an inept politician trying to sell your pet project ro the public
If anything, I gave the AETN a benefit by not having as much transfer medium to also cool. See the pinned comment on the follow-up test I ran.
The nullifier doesn't use power, but it also doesn't cool enough things to really justify using it over the steam turbine + aquatuner combo. A SPOM would also no longer be self-powered if you were using the hydrogen to run an AETN.
This is a pretty big reaction to a silly video. You're still allowed to use it if you want to! I just don't find that much of a reason when a better cooling option already exists.
There's just a little thing to keep in mind. The aquatuner and steam engines are high-end science research. So, if you are on a hot asteroid and need cooling asap, the nullifier would possibly be the way to go.
Yeah I know... you need to find the nullifier first. But after setting up a system with it, you're still allowed to switch to the aquatuner/steam engine after it's available😊
That's a good point! My only experiences on a hot asteroid involved an aquatuner ASAP (without a steam turbine, just dumping the hot water afterward), but I'm sure there are situations where the AETN makes sense.
@@Magnet_MD Consider spaced out, and if you don't have access to the other two types of science you'll be waiting a long time for that top tier goodies :)
I cursed my other rock and it has the radiation I need... Heh.