Small correction at 10:14, for cycle 1D the numbers should be only 6.9 Dasha Salt Vines required, which would need 48.5kg/cycle of sand and the net chlorine output of 101kg/cycle.
The one thing when I first tried to use them was I didn’t realize they consumed the chlorine was shocked when my room went to a vacuum and the equipment in there started to over hear. Great work as always
Perhaps you should also have gone into the benefits of mutations here, as an exuberant dasha is way more positive on everything since the growth cycle is a lot faster.
Things can get even more complicated if you throw the extra output at geotuning a hot (95C) salt water geyser - you get salt back without the power or labor cost of a desalinator, and extra power on top (which might not be a surplus if you want to cool the output for use elsewhere). Also dupes will use table salt on *anything*, including pie, which just looks hilarious.
When you talk about excess chlorine uses, I would appreciate comparing the dasha saltvine with squeaky pufts. I know that the ranches are a messy thing, but it could be interesting in terms of sand consumption, and chlorine to bleachstone conversion efficiency.
The problem of Dasha Salt Vines is that they have to compete with Salt Water Geyser + Desalinator + Hydra + TATST Cooling Loop: Free Salt, 800 watts of power, Oxygen for 12 dupes, cooling, a Sleet Wheat farm, and a Bristle Blossom farm.
@Tomfoolery1980 Well, the Dasha Saltvine output is salt that takes chlorine, sand, and cooling to produce. The salt, which is coming from Salt Water Geyser + Desalinator + Hydra + TATST Cooling Loop, is basically free. Free vs. not free.
it should be noted that there are asteroids in the game which feature rust biomes, but no salt biomes. if you should get a chlorine vent on said asteroid, rust powered oxygen goes a long way. furthermore, rust biomes on the large starting asteroids can be 300 cycles or more of oxygen production, so even if it is difficult to get, it is still quite sustainable for early game.
Dashasalt Vines are also useful in early game clean-up as you have mine through several biomes there could be a layer of chlorine gas. Place a couple of Dashasalt vines at the chlorine level can get rid of the unwanted chlorine.
A few of the mutations for salt vines also make the process chlorine positive when going down the bleach stone hopper route (Super specialized being the best for this). In my colony I eventually retired the use of a chlorine vent to run the chlorine requirement entirely from off-gassing bleach stone (though, you need to invest a lot of bleach stone upfront to get the required rates). Leaving the only input to the system being a small amount of gold, and some dupe labour for the plants.
Excellent video! Bleach stone (and chlorine in general) used to be simple, boring and almost always ignored before the introduction of bleach stone hopper and geotuners. Now things are almost the opposite - it is useful, but the math is a tad too complicated for an average player. Hopefully this tutorial will help those players better understand it.
Be aware that Dasha Salt Vines will consume sand fertilizer even if its not growing such as low/high atmospheric pressure, temperature or lack of Chlorine gas. So if you have a system that runs in cycles it can waste sand during chlorine vent dormant stages.
I don’t know how if this would work since I don’t play oni but: I’ll take option 2c in which i prioritize the geotuners then the rock crusher and finally ship what’s left of the salt to the bleach stone hopper. Use the bleach stone to make 1 water geotuner and the rest go to the plants for food
Yes it is only through space mining, but once that can be achieved there are just easier ways to make oxygen and iron ore. It would kind of be funny if iron ore debris left out in oxygen turned to rust by itself after a certain amount of time.
In theory, but remember a polluted water geysers produces 30 times as much polluted water as a polluted oxygen vent does polluted oxygen. So it really doesn't make sense to geotune the polluted oxygen vent when you could just offgas that water instead.
(ONI amateur disclaimer) *TL;DR: Yes, this lets you turn Gold into Sand, but off-gassing Bleach Stone into Chlorine to grow the Dasha Saltvines is a slow and inefficient process that would take a long time to start up without an external source.* Bleach Stone off-gasses into Chlorine at a 1:1 ratio (1kg of Bleach Stone turns into 1kg of Chlorine, with no mass lost). Using the chart at 7:32 we can see that the Salt output from a single Dasha Saltvine produces 3.6kg/cycle of Bleach Stone in a Bleach Stone Hopper when combined with 180g/cycle of Gold. This is exactly enough to support the plant's Chlorine requirements when allowed to off-gas as, on paper, 3.6kg/cycle of Bleach Stone is effectively 3.6kg/cycle of Chlorine. Again referring to the chart at 7:32 we see this process would also produce 7.2kg/cycle of Sand, enough to satisfy the Dasha Saltvine's 7kg/cycle requirement with a small excess of 200g for other use. Taken all together, this means you can produce 200g/cycle of "free" Sand for only 180g/cycle of Gold by feeding the output of your Bleach Stone Hopper back to the Dasha Saltvine. However, this is not nearly as efficient in reality, as Bleach Stone takes quite some time to off-gas. According to the wiki, Bleach Stone emits Chlorine at a rate equal to (0.2 x (mass in kg^0.5)), or 0.2 times the square root of the Bleach Stone's mass in kg, measured in grams/second. This means you would need to have, at minimum, one pile of no less than 900kg of Bleach Stone for every Dasha Saltvine you wish to support in order to match the rate of Chlorine production with consumption (as 0.2 x (900kg^0.5) = 6g/s Chlorine); these piles would need to be constantly replenished when they fell below 900kg or else you would eventually (*very* eventually) have problems keeping your plants satisfied, assuming you turn the setup into a closed loop with no external source of Chlorine. Assuming you fed all the Salt from a single Dasha Saltvine into a Bleach Stone Hopper and collected it all perfectly without letting even a single gram off-gas early, it would take you *250 cycles* to amass the 900kg needed to sustain *just that single Dasha Saltvine* solely through off-gassing - not even considering a larger farm than that - and you would need some other continuous source of Chlorine in the meantime to even produce that Bleach Stone in the first place. Of course you could just invest 2700kg of Sand and 45kg of Gold to make the requisite 900kg of Bleach Stone (or get it somewhere else even) and skip the waiting game altogether, but I was looking at this through a lens of sustainability and self-sufficiency instead, so I didn't mention it. I hope this answers your question. It was entertaining to figure all this out. If I have made any errors or relayed incorrect information here, please let me know.
@@sentientbowtie5773 okay, i decided to do the math for myself. having one pile of bleach stone per dasha will indeed require a pile of 900 kg of bleach stone to produce 6 g/s of chlorine. however, the equation 0.2 x sqrt(bleach stone/kg) g/s has diminishing returns. if you wanted to produce 3 g/s of chlorine, you would only need 225 kg of bleach stone. so why not just spread 450 kg of bleach stone across two separate piles of 225 kg of bleach stone to make the same 6 g/s of bleach stone? the math works out to where the total amount of bleach stone you need is divided by the amount of piles you split the bleach stone across. if you 30 piles per dasha, you'll only need 30 kg of bleach stone per dasha. in fact, with 30 kg of bleach stone across 30 piles, you'd only need 1 kg of bleach stone per pile. i'd imagine the most efficient way to go about this is to use a conveyor track.
@1_1bman You’re right, you certainly could. 3 separate piles of at least 100kg Bleach Stone would be enough for one Dasha Saltvine, at or above 2g/s of off-gas each. *Completely* flubbed the math on that part.
Small correction at 10:14, for cycle 1D the numbers should be only 6.9 Dasha Salt Vines required, which would need 48.5kg/cycle of sand and the net chlorine output of 101kg/cycle.
Dash-a-salt vine and Pinch-a-pepper nut, I love the puns im this game
how did i never notice these 😭
Not to mention the critter that can dig through things called “shovels”
@@WhiteKnuckleRide512 how have i not seen any of these 😭
...i have never noticed the plant names and i have always pronounced the critters "shove voles"
Oh god i never noticed until you pointed it out wtf
Your flow charts, including the way you reveal them in staggered steps, is amazing 🤩
i just love the way you explain everything. calm voice and lots of important info. best oxygen not included tutorial videos in youtube👍
The one thing when I first tried to use them was I didn’t realize they consumed the chlorine was shocked when my room went to a vacuum and the equipment in there started to over hear. Great work as always
Perhaps you should also have gone into the benefits of mutations here, as an exuberant dasha is way more positive on everything since the growth cycle is a lot faster.
Looooots of maths today 😍
I had no idea how the table salt was used, I am enlightened 🤭 thsnk you for you hard work and excellent presentation ♥️
Things can get even more complicated if you throw the extra output at geotuning a hot (95C) salt water geyser - you get salt back without the power or labor cost of a desalinator, and extra power on top (which might not be a surplus if you want to cool the output for use elsewhere).
Also dupes will use table salt on *anything*, including pie, which just looks hilarious.
When you talk about excess chlorine uses, I would appreciate comparing the dasha saltvine with squeaky pufts. I know that the ranches are a messy thing, but it could be interesting in terms of sand consumption, and chlorine to bleachstone conversion efficiency.
I wasnt expecting this plant to be useful ahah
Thabks for covering it
The problem of Dasha Salt Vines is that they have to compete with Salt Water Geyser + Desalinator + Hydra + TATST Cooling Loop: Free Salt, 800 watts of power, Oxygen for 12 dupes, cooling, a Sleet Wheat farm, and a Bristle Blossom farm.
excuse me if i noobed but why are these competing? different inputs.. I guess you just cap off the chlorine vent?
@Tomfoolery1980 Well, the Dasha Saltvine output is salt that takes chlorine, sand, and cooling to produce. The salt, which is coming from Salt Water Geyser + Desalinator + Hydra + TATST Cooling Loop, is basically free. Free vs. not free.
@@Lorens4444 I see thanks
it should be noted that there are asteroids in the game which feature rust biomes, but no salt biomes. if you should get a chlorine vent on said asteroid, rust powered oxygen goes a long way. furthermore, rust biomes on the large starting asteroids can be 300 cycles or more of oxygen production, so even if it is difficult to get, it is still quite sustainable for early game.
And you turn the rust into iron for steel production
@@o-poppoo5117 the iron from the rust deoxidizer is quite good, plus it is the ore, which can be fed to smooth hatches, saving workers.
Dashasalt Vines are also useful in early game clean-up as you have mine through several biomes there could be a layer of chlorine gas. Place a couple of Dashasalt vines at the chlorine level can get rid of the unwanted chlorine.
Neat fact, there is a type of real world tree called salt cedar, it produces salt deposits. It is noxious weed though.
A few of the mutations for salt vines also make the process chlorine positive when going down the bleach stone hopper route (Super specialized being the best for this). In my colony I eventually retired the use of a chlorine vent to run the chlorine requirement entirely from off-gassing bleach stone (though, you need to invest a lot of bleach stone upfront to get the required rates). Leaving the only input to the system being a small amount of gold, and some dupe labour for the plants.
I love you you make these tutorials you give the info in a super digestible way
Doing the math so we don't have to! Thanks so much for all the work you put in :)
Amo que todos os vídeos dele tem legenda em pt-bt ❤❤❤
Excellent video! Bleach stone (and chlorine in general) used to be simple, boring and almost always ignored before the introduction of bleach stone hopper and geotuners. Now things are almost the opposite - it is useful, but the math is a tad too complicated for an average player. Hopefully this tutorial will help those players better understand it.
your guide videos are simply amazing, many thanks
Personally the only thing I use these for is putting a couple in my base near my co2 scrubber to get rid of any rogue chlorine that gets in :)
Not a bad idea for rogue chlorine.
babe wake up new tutorial bite dropped
I have never used the dasha salt vines or the chlorine vent but i will certainly try to use them in my playthrough.
Be aware that Dasha Salt Vines will consume sand fertilizer even if its not growing such as low/high atmospheric pressure, temperature or lack of Chlorine gas. So if you have a system that runs in cycles it can waste sand during chlorine vent dormant stages.
My favourite ASMR youtuber.
Great tutorial!
I don’t know how if this would work since I don’t play oni but:
I’ll take option 2c in which i prioritize the geotuners then the rock crusher and finally ship what’s left of the salt to the bleach stone hopper. Use the bleach stone to make 1 water geotuner and the rest go to the plants for food
would be so op if they didnt't consume chlorine when wild, 1 gold volcano can give gold for bleach stone for like 250 geotuners
3:21
Im still "salty" that Rust isn't a renewable source
Yes it is only through space mining, but once that can be achieved there are just easier ways to make oxygen and iron ore. It would kind of be funny if iron ore debris left out in oxygen turned to rust by itself after a certain amount of time.
@@GCFungus or some Critter that drops small amounts of Rust
That's a lot of sand. ive got hatch farms that are underfed that sand could be helpful.
Would a chlorine geyser make more bleach stone through vines+hopper or squeaky pufts?
Do dash-a-salt vines create seeds when grown?
Yes they do have a 10% default seed chance on harvest.
Couldn't the argument be made that polluted vents can be used to produce clay for ceramic production?
In theory, but remember a polluted water geysers produces 30 times as much polluted water as a polluted oxygen vent does polluted oxygen. So it really doesn't make sense to geotune the polluted oxygen vent when you could just offgas that water instead.
I wish it was obtainable in Rime Asteroid.
What about letting bleach stone offgas into chlorine? We'd get a gold to sand process, right? Or would it also be chlorine positive/negative?
(ONI amateur disclaimer)
*TL;DR: Yes, this lets you turn Gold into Sand, but off-gassing Bleach Stone into Chlorine to grow the Dasha Saltvines is a slow and inefficient process that would take a long time to start up without an external source.*
Bleach Stone off-gasses into Chlorine at a 1:1 ratio (1kg of Bleach Stone turns into 1kg of Chlorine, with no mass lost). Using the chart at 7:32 we can see that the Salt output from a single Dasha Saltvine produces 3.6kg/cycle of Bleach Stone in a Bleach Stone Hopper when combined with 180g/cycle of Gold. This is exactly enough to support the plant's Chlorine requirements when allowed to off-gas as, on paper, 3.6kg/cycle of Bleach Stone is effectively 3.6kg/cycle of Chlorine. Again referring to the chart at 7:32 we see this process would also produce 7.2kg/cycle of Sand, enough to satisfy the Dasha Saltvine's 7kg/cycle requirement with a small excess of 200g for other use.
Taken all together, this means you can produce 200g/cycle of "free" Sand for only 180g/cycle of Gold by feeding the output of your Bleach Stone Hopper back to the Dasha Saltvine.
However, this is not nearly as efficient in reality, as Bleach Stone takes quite some time to off-gas. According to the wiki, Bleach Stone emits Chlorine at a rate equal to (0.2 x (mass in kg^0.5)), or 0.2 times the square root of the Bleach Stone's mass in kg, measured in grams/second. This means you would need to have, at minimum, one pile of no less than 900kg of Bleach Stone for every Dasha Saltvine you wish to support in order to match the rate of Chlorine production with consumption (as 0.2 x (900kg^0.5) = 6g/s Chlorine); these piles would need to be constantly replenished when they fell below 900kg or else you would eventually (*very* eventually) have problems keeping your plants satisfied, assuming you turn the setup into a closed loop with no external source of Chlorine.
Assuming you fed all the Salt from a single Dasha Saltvine into a Bleach Stone Hopper and collected it all perfectly without letting even a single gram off-gas early, it would take you *250 cycles* to amass the 900kg needed to sustain *just that single Dasha Saltvine* solely through off-gassing - not even considering a larger farm than that - and you would need some other continuous source of Chlorine in the meantime to even produce that Bleach Stone in the first place.
Of course you could just invest 2700kg of Sand and 45kg of Gold to make the requisite 900kg of Bleach Stone (or get it somewhere else even) and skip the waiting game altogether, but I was looking at this through a lens of sustainability and self-sufficiency instead, so I didn't mention it.
I hope this answers your question. It was entertaining to figure all this out. If I have made any errors or relayed incorrect information here, please let me know.
@sentientbowtie5773 you could have much faster bleach stone offgassing by splitting the bleach stone across multiple piles, couldn't you?
@@sentientbowtie5773 okay, i decided to do the math for myself.
having one pile of bleach stone per dasha will indeed require a pile of 900 kg of bleach stone to produce 6 g/s of chlorine. however, the equation 0.2 x sqrt(bleach stone/kg) g/s has diminishing returns. if you wanted to produce 3 g/s of chlorine, you would only need 225 kg of bleach stone. so why not just spread 450 kg of bleach stone across two separate piles of 225 kg of bleach stone to make the same 6 g/s of bleach stone?
the math works out to where the total amount of bleach stone you need is divided by the amount of piles you split the bleach stone across. if you 30 piles per dasha, you'll only need 30 kg of bleach stone per dasha. in fact, with 30 kg of bleach stone across 30 piles, you'd only need 1 kg of bleach stone per pile.
i'd imagine the most efficient way to go about this is to use a conveyor track.
@1_1bman You’re right, you certainly could. 3 separate piles of at least 100kg Bleach Stone would be enough for one Dasha Saltvine, at or above 2g/s of off-gas each. *Completely* flubbed the math on that part.
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