Take a look at the entire Season right here: ua-cam.com/play/PL4O-dC6ogdu9sm_U0GC6tNy0JSAxIosBj.html Find my Discord Channel here: discord.gg/Cv5mPZFwup Note on the video: On the Hydra systems, the amount of gas pumps need to match the output of the Electrolyzers. The Formula is (Number of Electrolyzers) * 888(for Oxygen)/112(for Hydrogen). Then take the result and divide it by 500. Round the result to the next highest number and you know how many gas pumps you need to satisfy all your Electrolyzers. A big Thank You to @alexkumbar6824 for noticing this important missing information!
Hey Bier! Glad to have you back! Tiny optimization for 3:35 you can bridge the hydrogen onto the pipe that goes into the Hydrogen Generator room and have the white output lead into the infinite storage. Saves you the power for the second pump running.
Thanks Luma! You are right, that could’ve been done for sure! I wanted to show how it would look like if the Hydrogen Generators are “detached” from the SPOM itself, I could have made that a bit more clear though :)
If the 3 hydra is producing enough oxygen for 24 dupes, but you only have one gas pump, pulling it out of the infinite storage, doesn’t that mean that it’s only actually supporting five dupes?
You are absolutely correct. Thanks for making me aware! The appropriate amount of gas pumps need to be installed or the pumps become the bottleneck of the system. That is highly important!
@@BierTier could you do a mechanized door with automation just open up the infinite storage of O2 and just release it naturally without pumps? Let the O2 just permeate through the base like that, I wonder...Like have sensors in the base in areas, when O2 pressure gets low, like below 1000kg or something the door will open again.
@@Evilysilly74 I've done it before, it's easy and works. The biggest issue is the temperature of the O2, so you might need some cooling in the path the oxygen will travel.
@@Evilysilly74 Gas Pressure is a concern. Above 4000 g per tile and your dupes would get a "Popped Eardrums" debuff, and above 10000 your crops stop growing. Hydra is a wild beast you have to keep on a leash. XD
You also need to remember that if you 6 pumps + one for the hydrogen, along with 3 electrolysers, you'll need at least 2 separate transformers with 2 electric networks to avoid wire overloading. Trying to fix a system with 2000 kg of compressed oxygen is like deactivating a nuclear bomb in your base
Hydra is underrated, with 2 electrolyzers and 2kg/s of water in a hydra you can get enough power for your base until like the first 100 cycles depending on how fast you progress.A lot of oxygen as well and it decreases the chance of a disaster since even if your electrolyzers stop working you will probably have tons of oxygen and hydrogen left in the hydra.
For a while I used to ignore Hydras as "cheat-y", until I wanted to get the green energy achievement and had to go with Hydrogen Generators. So, after researching, I built my Hydra. I chose the horizontal version with O2 above and H2 below. The Electrolizer open tiles are: left top for H2, and top left for O2. The system is scalable and with the proper pressure sensors for pumping out gasses, fool proof.
I have worked with the half-rodriguez and full Rodriguez on a number of bases over years. I had seen part of the concept behind the Hydra before, but hadnt seen a deployment that acrually made it meaningful to me. It was more a compact "overly complicated" setup for a SPOM. Seeing how it is structured, and knowing how it works makes me lean toward the hydra for my next run. Built in infinite storage, as a by prodict of the design looks good. I usually have to start adding reservoirs to keep my rodriguez running because i dont use up all of its gasses, and running out of whichever you're consuming at the higher percentage rate is never good (not enough oxygen? Bad things, dupes die. Not enough hydrogen? Bad things power fails. And it would be either gas overpressuring stopping the other.
I would not suggest anyone to remove self powered part from a oxygen setup. You don't want power failure affect a system that is so critical and is actually power positive. It's better to only let excess hydrogen out. Otherwise well done.
I agree, there is a risk to it. I recommend what I personally do and what people can see in my Let's Plays everyday :) Thank you, I appreciate your view though :)
This is probably true for most people. They usually do not install redundant safety systems for their power infrastructure. Specifically - 1 - Segmenting Specific / Critical power block areas with auto and/or manual switches, including using a cutoff with a manual and automatic component using an OR gate with an alarm notification. This allows you to repower specific areas first, for example the oxygen, suits, farm and kitchen. 2 - Backup manual generator room within the base to jumpstart the power grid should main generators fail. If the dupe homes are in a contained block, then maintenance or jump-start access outside should be there - repair stations for suits and jumpstart generator room. This can also be used to conserve power resources when dupes are otherwise not busy. 3 - Hydrogen rockets.
I usually prefer to have the ability to detach certain parts of my power grid in case something goes wrong while keeping it whole when it works correctly to transfer that small amount of power that's usually wasted somewhere else. XD
If I ever need to attach a SPOM to my main power line it's usually by running an extra gas line past the primary generators to a secondary hydrogen generator whose power line is only connected to the base's main power line and not the SPOM itself. That way, any excess power the SPOM produces can go towards maintaining my base but as long as the 2 power line systems aren't touching they won't interfere with each other.
Hydra has one flaw because of the infinite gas storage and the liquid around the electrolizers - you can't redesign or disassemble it without a major headache. You are basically stuck with it one you made it. Compared to it, regular SPOM requires power for cooling and takes up more space, but it's much more flexible. I'd say that it depends on the map you are working with. If you have a stable water supply, go for Hydra. If you have trouble finding enough water, but have enough power, Rodriguez is your friend.
I wouldn't call it a flaw, but a feature. It's a tool that needs to be used in the appropriate circumstances and I think you put those circumstances very well :)
@ketislahh1982 You enter Hydra, let's say from the hydrogen chamber, then what? Let's take a basic Hydra with three heads, and the middle electrolizer was accidentally built from iron instead of gold and is overheating, or your electric circuit was damaged nearby. How do you proceed without disrupting the entire thing? It's so much pain in the neck that even your dupes are gonna go crazy (Popped Eardrums, Heatstroke). Let's say you create an atmosuit dock to keep them sane (which can take up to 10 cycles by itself), you still need to manage the airflow of the two chambers so that it would still work after you're done, which is close to a surgical procedure ("bleeding" hydrogen/oxygen is not an option, as well as mixing them together). Again, I'm not saying that it's impossible, but the time it's going to take outweighs the benefits. You might as well build another Hydra instead. XD
I never did use a hydra because I always felt that infinite storage like this was breaking the rules of the game. But that's my personal opinion, and I would never disapprove of someone else choosing to use it since each person's colony is their own creation. It's a very creative solution to a problem after all. It definitely would have made early base oxygen supply a lot easier, not to mention getting the super sustainable achievement. But for me I feel I get more satisfaction by not utilizing it as a workaround or shortcut.
7:44 Cooling power part with cool water is useful only in two cases - you use cold brine/slush water or you dont have gold amalgam. In all other cases cooling gens with hot hydrogen works perfectly.
I used a 1x1 hydra set-up, first thing beyond coal in my current playthrough. My dupes put too much water in and once it was all set-up and the water pumping, it said the electrolyzer was flooded. I was going to open it up to fix it and re-vaccum but opening it let the electrolyzer work but my oxygen and hydrogen are on the opposites side to yours. It works great, but I've no idea why/how considering where the oxygen is suppose to be coming out of the electrolyzer. Thanks for the great video!!
The position of the gases doesn’t really matter in reality. The game engine will automatically sort the gases, no matter on which side they are. I just put Hydrogen up and Oxygen down, because it makes sense due to their densities. I’m glad you enjoy the video though :)
I have built a 27 Hydra and I've got to say it's the most lag-free base yet. Then I built a 30kg/s Sour Gas boiler right below it which was fueling it outright since I actually taxed over 20kj from a pipe of Petrol and was actually using the Hydrogen. Simply said this removes the amount of troubles casual or brute force systems get from broken power or invalid gases it just keeps going. Funnily my infinite water storage broke, jusy manual airlocks in atmosphere with vents on top, the tank drained so quickly with 30kg/s and infinite gas storage it also deletes water really effectively. Spot on design will certainly put it in my next base aswell.
That sounds like an insane setup! And yes, Hydras definitely help with performance since the area is tiny and the calculations for heat exchanges and gas movements are almost negligible! I'm glad you enjoy this setup :)
I always start with a single electrolyzer spom early game and then swap to a 3 electrolyzer hydra around mid game. I also add a vent in the liquid lock for the hydrogen if there's any hydrogen vents around the map and just infinite store it all in one place.
both systems have their use. spom is easier and safer. built up pressure in a hydra can be dangerous, but that can be managed with a pressure sensor in oxygen for controlling electrolyzers (or other solutions) spoms can also be scaled up so that you don't have them dotted around the base. you can make one huge multi-rodriguez spom making all oxygen and handling all hydrogen. personally i like the "input cool water into this system, get oxygen out" no main power grid connections needed. the hydra really shines when you have excess water. great for splitting hydrogen & oxygen for vanilla rocket fuel.
Thanks - I love the explanation. One thing I'd worry about with the hydra designs is the gas pressure - if for any reason you needed to do maintenance on the system, getting in there without the gas exploding across your base would be awkward (personally, I'd be bound to make a mistake!) The separate infinite storage in the first SPOM seems a lot safer to me. What do you think? Is this a problem in practice?
@@Lorens4444 AFAIK all tiles are immune to gas pressure. Liquid pressure can still break tiles, but it's a math equation between the mass of liquid, the hardness of the tile, and how many layers of tiles. Things like Sand and Fertilizer will first leak then break very easily, while constructed tiles take very significant quantities of liquid. The old rule of thumb was 3 layers of tiles are unbreakable, but I understand there was a change since then that means it may only be 2 layers needed. Also, Airflow Tiles can never break from liquid pressure, because they are full of air, not metal. There is no liquid in ONI that can break a gas, so...
Straight up SPOM here. Slightly more compact than the Rodriguez. 2 electrolyzers, 4 oxy pumps and 1 hydro pump. It's mostly limited by how much oxygen we need so as long as you have enough dupes or space to pressurize it runs everything nicely. Later on you can throw some bypasses on and shunt the excess to an oxylite forge
The second I open youtube on the internet this comes up first in my home page. How did they guess that my over-the-limits love for hydras would make this video perfect to watch? xD
Hi for an engineer you're quire liberal with expensive materials. :) Most of the radiant pipes can be shortened. A couple of hydrogen generators aren't going to output that much heat.
You are absolutely correct, I'm not looking at the materials too much in my tutorials. When I give recommendations, then only to make sure all players will have the same experience, even if the coolant doesn't match mine for example. There are too many variables to give a one-all be-all solution that works in basically every players game, so I try to keep it open to the players to find their best solution with what they learned :)
Nice setups. I typically go with Full SPOM in my base. The Hydra is certainly an interesting design though seems like it's a lot harder to setup. It takes up more space and you gotta get all those liquids in and properly balanced and then vac out the chamber which I've found tends to take a long time in places as the air pressure just keeps getting lower and lower down into the grams until after a few cycles all the gas is finally gone and you have a vacuum. Built in storage is nice but Hydra setup feels misleading as other commenters have pointed out there is not enough Oxygen pumps to pull all the oxygen you are creating. On a side note is the gas infinite storage really work? With liquid you have to use the Airflow blocks because otherwise the pressure will break the blocks and the liquid spills out. With air though I've had giant steam rooms burst on me as it had too much steam in there, which is a gas. Because of this concern I've rarely used infinite gas storage as I rarely over produce that much to actually need it and simply throttle the machines producing it. Only exception is CO2 which is byproduct of a lot of things so can't really turn off it's production.
It seems complicated to setup, but it's not that bad. I did it in my Let's Play "live" just after I posted this video. The main benefit of the Hydra is that it is modular with build in storages. So if you have 1 Electrolyzers or 21 makes no difference, it looks and works the same way. The gas storages do work, since gas pressure is calculated differently than liquids. Liquids are generally considered "not compressible", which means if you put more and more in one single space, something has to give eventually. Gas on the other hand is very compressible(compressed air, like in your car tires), so it will not break your tiles. Not sure what you experienced with Steam, I have never build a really overpressured steam room or a infinite storage for steam. It should be possible though.
@@BierTier The steam room was back in Vanilla pre Spaced out DLC. I wanted some geo thermal power and a way to clean my polluted water. So I built a giant open room over lava and hot ground. I kept pumping in polluted water and easily was keeping 200+ Temp on steam with enough stored heat in there to run for hundreds of cycles as well as running my cooling loop into it to dump off heat. Had 4 Steam Turbines powered with it. After running without issue for hundreds of cycles suddenly I noticed a bunch of machines nearby breaking and when I checked they were all over heating because a break in the side of the chamber. When I patched it I once again saw it start to break from over pressure with only gasses on both sides. I ended building wall 2 thick and turned off pipe that had been pumping P.Water in to turn to steam. Eventually pressure got low enough I didn't have to keep replacing the wall. Not sure what happen or if it was something later patched out but didn't try infinite gases again after that.
@@PyroMancer2k Heat maybe? Or maybe something had gotten stuck one random tile (Sometimes a critter may get locked inside a built tile because it dropped into that space just when a Dupe built it, and afaik, if a loose material has nowhere to get kicked off from an occupied tile, it just stays there, but can very much still heat up.
Re: Rodriguez vs Hydra I would say neither. I prefer long 1 tile high pools of polluted water, deodorizers, and some automation. Why? oxygen/water conversion is about the same but the deodorizers will produce large quantities of clay. Plentiful ceramics are great for late game builds.
=....HMPH.........MAYBE U SHOULD USE ETHANOL DISTILLERS AND SUBLIMATION STATIONS, THOUGH =BC OF DUDE, 50g/s*TILE ISNT SO GREAT, U KNOW.......... AND POKESHELLS AS WELL.............AND ARBORS CAN BE WILD AT LEAST PART OF THEM SO THE SYSTEM COULD VE BEEN RUNNING BY ITSELF,RIGHT?
When you give the amount of power hydra's hydrogen generators, do you take into account that running pumps and electrolyzers isn't free? Is the power they use already subtracted from your numbers?
You have one pump for oxygen and one for hydrogen in your first hydra setup (3 electrolyzers). Whats the point of having 3 electrolyzers (oxygen 888 * 3 g/s) when you pump out less than one electrolyzer's output worth of oxygen (500 g/s)? Edit: nvm I see others already noticed this
The solution you use will always depend on the scenario you are playing. For example if you are playing a one dupe challenge no need for a spom. localized hydras will be a better option. or you may choose a non exploit playthrough, then you are using SPOM. Try playing a mini base game without infinite storages :) I really find the exploit vs non exploit comparisons useless. It is a game and it is here for us to enjoy. I usually try not to use exploits as someone mentioned if it gets patched or buggs out you will have a nightmare to deal with in your hands... I do 90% of the time use SPOM and I have the blueprint for it so I just slap it depending on the game I play. I mostly use gold for the equipment because you sometimes end up with very hot water and it the SPOM breaks you know how that goes.. I would like to send you the one I have for you to check out. I have close to 2000 hours and I know one thing. If it involves Dupes all can go wrong... so it was built with dupes in mind :)
Just started playing ONI, and have a question about this set up. As far as I understand, A single pump can only support 5 dupes, how would you cram the 5 pumps needed for the 25 dupes (first form of the hydra)?
I love your clear explanations of all things ONI, but I'm still hazy on the priming of hydras. Do you vacuum out and then just run the electrolisers and they automatically filter out O2 and H to specific sides? Or do you need to have another vent coming in from an external store to put o2 and H where you want them first? If so, how do you deconstruct these elements from the sealed container? I'm still working my way thru all your videos and they are some of my standard go-to's for this games mechanics. Thanks, from Hamburg!
I'm not sure you really explained the specific advantages and disadvantages of both setups. You basically only mentioned that the hydras has infinite storage, but tbh, once you factor in things like correct number of oxygen pumps it seems like it's at a space disadvantage compared to extra large SPOMS.
If the asteroid have sufficient supply of water, I always go with hydra. This is good for late game build of liquid Hydrogen and Oxygen as I have tons available already backed up for hundreds of cycle.
The normal conductive wire is made from Ore, while the Heavy-Watt Wire is made from refined metals. Ore is finite in the game, where refined metal is infinite(if you have any kind of metal volcanoes). In the mid to late game, I replace all wires made from Ore with Refined Metal ones for that reason
How do I share a compact mechanical 100% efficiency build? More likely, how do I test for efficiency, the numbers are wild, but I can seemingly self power with a little extra (30W)
When you cool your O2 with the incoming water, you should cool your O2 first then your H2 burners. They can work at 50C and nobody cares. The O2 being at 25C is nicer than having burners at 40C and O2 at 40C too. :)
you are correct, certain aspects of the example builds are overkill but at the end of the day the examples are really just to show off the core mechanics of each system. I could potentially see heavy watt conductive wire being put in if the hydrogen generators were directly linked to a bases main power spine. In a real setting i could def see where corners could be cut to save on resources.
It seems u could eliminate most of the o2 pumps by making an open vent maze filled with radiant pipe only leaving the hydrogen sensor to build for the hydro pump
Rodriguez I believe needs back pressure so hydrogen will not leak out. And Hydra by design is infinite storage so you'll end up with too high pressure in your base unless you vent the excess or regulate it some other way
Hmm i have a seed that has 4 salt water, 2 water and 2 cool steam now imagine the amount of water i have i use both the Rodriguez spom to supply oxygen to my base but the hydra is better to supply power into my power spine
I don't get what the transformator is for in the build that only uses less than 1000Kw anyway. Batteries can accept any amount of power regardless so it doesn't have to be protected.
If I had to guess, probably for expansion purposes into a larger machine. There's no real difference between building it now or later, and if you have the materials there's no reason no to.
In reality, all SPOMs will not run at 100% uptime, meaning you will find more extra power than just the extra 160W. And because most of your other machines won't run all the time either, you can use a Smart Battery to power the bulk of an early game base pretty easily.
To be totally fair and exact... With that set up of 18:50 you cant keep 26 dupes alive, just 5... Remember the pump's g/sec speed... 😏 Jokes aside, fantastic video!!
I definitely prefer the spom for its relative simplicity. My dupes could even run in to fix an overloaded wire from when I crossed the streams. Also, it feels to me that hydra relies on a gimmicky quirk in mechanics. It's fine as such, but if I don't need to rely on it, I prefer not to.
@@BierTier ahh yes, Options. That would be the set of rings with permanent Bound Armor, Sword and Shield that I had in Morrowind. "Just in case my real armor breaks." Until I accidentally sold the real one and just went Emperor's new clothes. Or dragging a hard hitting summer/warrior through the MUD's Labyrinth because everyone said that it couldn't be done. Turns out that actually it was merely excruciatingly impractical. Knowing myself, I will end up with one world with every megalomaniac build I can think of. To see that I can. But for now, I will conveniently misplace that selfreflection. *scampers off looking for bier*
That are good builds, of course. But I see exploits of flawed game mechanics. For example, endless amounts of gas can potentially be stored in one tile. This could easily be fixed by limiting the possible amount per tile. But anyway, there are many ways, and I hope Klei finds reasonable solutions.
These “bugs” are in the game since release, Klei is well aware of them and choose not to fix them. I think they like the crazy things people come up with, it provides free advertisement for their game afterall, like this tutorial here :) I doubt they will ever fix something like this. It's not game breaking and people don't have to use it, but can. It's a win/win for everybody :)
@@BierTier I can use it myself, and of course, it benefits me. But sometimes, it is also boring and rather demotivating. But I am happy about the current development of the game: more skins and other things on the horizon.
I mean, yeah, it is a bit cheaty. That's why it's nice that it is just an option. Nobody has to use them to be successful in the game, but at the same time they add a lot more possibilities and fun things to do to the game :)
@@BierTier Oh, no arguments from me. As mentioned, "to each their own." As an aside, I'm curious to see what options you could do to handle cooling that *aren't* "aqua-tuner + steam turbine," which is just so stupidly efficient that it annoys me, TBH.
@@Lorens4444 Dumping heat in to oil before sending it into a oil refinery used to be a thing I did. Kind of hypocritical, now that I think about it, since deleting heat *also* is kinda cheaty.
man, electrolyzer really doesn't make sense don't they. Turning 1kg of Water (H2O) into 888g of oxygen and 112g of hydrogen... While the compound is called H2O where there's two molecules of hydrogen and 1 molecule of oxygen 😂
In real life, if electrolysis is used, there is twice as much Hydrogen produced than Oxygen. This is due to the H2O structure(1 Oxygen atom, 2 Hydrogen atoms). Per definition, if you split that molecule up, you'll end up with O and H2. It is also a power-negative process in real life, requiring about 53kW of energy to produce 1kg worth of Hydrogen, which contains 33.6kW of energy.
@@ctrlaltdebug You are correct. I just had to take a closer look at that. If you are getting 888 grams of Oxygen through Electrolysis, you will end up with 112 grams of Hydrogen. The math did look odd to me without checking, but doing it myself, it's accurate on the amounts. The power consumption doesn't reflect real life at all, though, haha :)
There is always a possibility that a patch breaks builds like that, very true. I doubt that is gonna happen though, the added value to the game is too high and the underlying mechanic to make it all work is one of the most important rules of the game “One Element per Tile at any given time”. To change that would mean to change the entire game and I personally don’t see that happening until a ONI2 is released :) But yes, the SPOM is definitely here to stay, no matter what :)
@@BierTier All they need to do is to get rid of the Airflow Tiles. They are simply too broken considering that the molecule size doesn't change based on the state of matter. XD
@@BierTier It's a fairly popular mod, i had it installed and couldn't make hydra work until i disable the mod, this could be helpful information to someone like me trying to find why their hydra doesn't working, and i want to say thanks for your tutorials you are a legend
Maybe stop by my Discord channel and share some screenshots or further info and we'll help you out. The systems definitely work, there must be a mistake somewhere :)
=OBVIOUSLY HYDRA IS *BETTER* BC OF _IT DOESNT SUFFER FROM OVERPRESSURE!!!!!!!!!!!_ =SO, EVERYONE SHOULD VE BEEN USING THESE, AND SCREW THAT "EWW THAT'S CHEATING!!"
Take a look at the entire Season right here: ua-cam.com/play/PL4O-dC6ogdu9sm_U0GC6tNy0JSAxIosBj.html
Find my Discord Channel here: discord.gg/Cv5mPZFwup
Note on the video: On the Hydra systems, the amount of gas pumps need to match the output of the Electrolyzers. The Formula is (Number of Electrolyzers) * 888(for Oxygen)/112(for Hydrogen). Then take the result and divide it by 500. Round the result to the next highest number and you know how many gas pumps you need to satisfy all your Electrolyzers. A big Thank You to @alexkumbar6824 for noticing this important missing information!
Hey Bier! Glad to have you back!
Tiny optimization for 3:35 you can bridge the hydrogen onto the pipe that goes into the Hydrogen Generator room
and have the white output lead into the infinite storage. Saves you the power for the second pump running.
Thanks Luma!
You are right, that could’ve been done for sure! I wanted to show how it would look like if the Hydrogen Generators are “detached” from the SPOM itself, I could have made that a bit more clear though :)
If the 3 hydra is producing enough oxygen for 24 dupes, but you only have one gas pump, pulling it out of the infinite storage, doesn’t that mean that it’s only actually supporting five dupes?
You are absolutely correct. Thanks for making me aware! The appropriate amount of gas pumps need to be installed or the pumps become the bottleneck of the system. That is highly important!
@@BierTier could you do a mechanized door with automation just open up the infinite storage of O2 and just release it naturally without pumps? Let the O2 just permeate through the base like that, I wonder...Like have sensors in the base in areas, when O2 pressure gets low, like below 1000kg or something the door will open again.
@@Evilysilly74 I've done it before, it's easy and works. The biggest issue is the temperature of the O2, so you might need some cooling in the path the oxygen will travel.
@@Evilysilly74 Gas Pressure is a concern. Above 4000 g per tile and your dupes would get a "Popped Eardrums" debuff, and above 10000 your crops stop growing. Hydra is a wild beast you have to keep on a leash. XD
You also need to remember that if you 6 pumps + one for the hydrogen, along with 3 electrolysers, you'll need at least 2 separate transformers with 2 electric networks to avoid wire overloading. Trying to fix a system with 2000 kg of compressed oxygen is like deactivating a nuclear bomb in your base
Hydra is underrated, with 2 electrolyzers and 2kg/s of water in a hydra you can get enough power for your base until like the first 100 cycles depending on how fast you progress.A lot of oxygen as well and it decreases the chance of a disaster since even if your electrolyzers stop working you will probably have tons of oxygen and hydrogen left in the hydra.
For a while I used to ignore Hydras as "cheat-y", until I wanted to get the green energy achievement and had to go with Hydrogen Generators. So, after researching, I built my Hydra. I chose the horizontal version with O2 above and H2 below. The Electrolizer open tiles are: left top for H2, and top left for O2. The system is scalable and with the proper pressure sensors for pumping out gasses, fool proof.
There are many ways to built a hydra or spom in general, that's for sure :)
I have worked with the half-rodriguez and full Rodriguez on a number of bases over years. I had seen part of the concept behind the Hydra before, but hadnt seen a deployment that acrually made it meaningful to me. It was more a compact "overly complicated" setup for a SPOM. Seeing how it is structured, and knowing how it works makes me lean toward the hydra for my next run. Built in infinite storage, as a by prodict of the design looks good. I usually have to start adding reservoirs to keep my rodriguez running because i dont use up all of its gasses, and running out of whichever you're consuming at the higher percentage rate is never good (not enough oxygen? Bad things, dupes die. Not enough hydrogen? Bad things power fails. And it would be either gas overpressuring stopping the other.
I would not suggest anyone to remove self powered part from a oxygen setup. You don't want power failure affect a system that is so critical and is actually power positive. It's better to only let excess hydrogen out. Otherwise well done.
I agree, there is a risk to it. I recommend what I personally do and what people can see in my Let's Plays everyday :)
Thank you, I appreciate your view though :)
This is probably true for most people. They usually do not install redundant safety systems for their power infrastructure. Specifically -
1 - Segmenting Specific / Critical power block areas with auto and/or manual switches, including using a cutoff with a manual and automatic component using an OR gate with an alarm notification. This allows you to repower specific areas first, for example the oxygen, suits, farm and kitchen.
2 - Backup manual generator room within the base to jumpstart the power grid should main generators fail. If the dupe homes are in a contained block, then maintenance or jump-start access outside should be there - repair stations for suits and jumpstart generator room. This can also be used to conserve power resources when dupes are otherwise not busy.
3 - Hydrogen rockets.
I usually prefer to have the ability to detach certain parts of my power grid in case something goes wrong while keeping it whole when it works correctly to transfer that small amount of power that's usually wasted somewhere else. XD
If I ever need to attach a SPOM to my main power line it's usually by running an extra gas line past the primary generators to a secondary hydrogen generator whose power line is only connected to the base's main power line and not the SPOM itself. That way, any excess power the SPOM produces can go towards maintaining my base but as long as the 2 power line systems aren't touching they won't interfere with each other.
Hydra has one flaw because of the infinite gas storage and the liquid around the electrolizers - you can't redesign or disassemble it without a major headache. You are basically stuck with it one you made it. Compared to it, regular SPOM requires power for cooling and takes up more space, but it's much more flexible. I'd say that it depends on the map you are working with. If you have a stable water supply, go for Hydra. If you have trouble finding enough water, but have enough power, Rodriguez is your friend.
I wouldn't call it a flaw, but a feature. It's a tool that needs to be used in the appropriate circumstances and I think you put those circumstances very well :)
You can put liquid locks to enter hydra its not a big deal so i would say if you dont mind infinite storages hydra wins by far.
@ketislahh1982 You enter Hydra, let's say from the hydrogen chamber, then what? Let's take a basic Hydra with three heads, and the middle electrolizer was accidentally built from iron instead of gold and is overheating, or your electric circuit was damaged nearby. How do you proceed without disrupting the entire thing? It's so much pain in the neck that even your dupes are gonna go crazy (Popped Eardrums, Heatstroke). Let's say you create an atmosuit dock to keep them sane (which can take up to 10 cycles by itself), you still need to manage the airflow of the two chambers so that it would still work after you're done, which is close to a surgical procedure ("bleeding" hydrogen/oxygen is not an option, as well as mixing them together). Again, I'm not saying that it's impossible, but the time it's going to take outweighs the benefits. You might as well build another Hydra instead. XD
@@Lorens4444 dont make vertical Hydras, make horizontal.
@@VShuricKThere are multiple designs of horizontal Hydra, which one?
I never did use a hydra because I always felt that infinite storage like this was breaking the rules of the game. But that's my personal opinion, and I would never disapprove of someone else choosing to use it since each person's colony is their own creation. It's a very creative solution to a problem after all. It definitely would have made early base oxygen supply a lot easier, not to mention getting the super sustainable achievement. But for me I feel I get more satisfaction by not utilizing it as a workaround or shortcut.
You mean it breaks your imaginary rules that you made up? :)
7:44 Cooling power part with cool water is useful only in two cases - you use cold brine/slush water or you dont have gold amalgam. In all other cases cooling gens with hot hydrogen works perfectly.
I used a 1x1 hydra set-up, first thing beyond coal in my current playthrough. My dupes put too much water in and once it was all set-up and the water pumping, it said the electrolyzer was flooded. I was going to open it up to fix it and re-vaccum but opening it let the electrolyzer work but my oxygen and hydrogen are on the opposites side to yours. It works great, but I've no idea why/how considering where the oxygen is suppose to be coming out of the electrolyzer. Thanks for the great video!!
The position of the gases doesn’t really matter in reality. The game engine will automatically sort the gases, no matter on which side they are. I just put Hydrogen up and Oxygen down, because it makes sense due to their densities.
I’m glad you enjoy the video though :)
Yeah, you can prime it this way. I'm doing it when the oxygen in my cooling chamber goes from top to bottom to make it more convenient.
I have built a 27 Hydra and I've got to say it's the most lag-free base yet. Then I built a 30kg/s Sour Gas boiler right below it which was fueling it outright since I actually taxed over 20kj from a pipe of Petrol and was actually using the Hydrogen. Simply said this removes the amount of troubles casual or brute force systems get from broken power or invalid gases it just keeps going. Funnily my infinite water storage broke, jusy manual airlocks in atmosphere with vents on top, the tank drained so quickly with 30kg/s and infinite gas storage it also deletes water really effectively. Spot on design will certainly put it in my next base aswell.
That sounds like an insane setup! And yes, Hydras definitely help with performance since the area is tiny and the calculations for heat exchanges and gas movements are almost negligible! I'm glad you enjoy this setup :)
I always start with a single electrolyzer spom early game and then swap to a 3 electrolyzer hydra around mid game. I also add a vent in the liquid lock for the hydrogen if there's any hydrogen vents around the map and just infinite store it all in one place.
both systems have their use. spom is easier and safer. built up pressure in a hydra can be dangerous, but that can be managed with a pressure sensor in oxygen for controlling electrolyzers (or other solutions)
spoms can also be scaled up so that you don't have them dotted around the base. you can make one huge multi-rodriguez spom making all oxygen and handling all hydrogen. personally i like the "input cool water into this system, get oxygen out" no main power grid connections needed.
the hydra really shines when you have excess water. great for splitting hydrogen & oxygen for vanilla rocket fuel.
Thanks so much for the info on hydras Im literally going to build one right now in my newest game!
That is awesome, I glad I could help :)
Thanks - I love the explanation. One thing I'd worry about with the hydra designs is the gas pressure - if for any reason you needed to do maintenance on the system, getting in there without the gas exploding across your base would be awkward (personally, I'd be bound to make a mistake!) The separate infinite storage in the first SPOM seems a lot safer to me. What do you think? Is this a problem in practice?
I'm happy you liked my explanations! Thank you!
They can very easily be accessed with a liquid lock, no gas pressure will break those :)
One question I have is how much gas pressure different tiles can handle. XD
@@Lorens4444 AFAIK all tiles are immune to gas pressure. Liquid pressure can still break tiles, but it's a math equation between the mass of liquid, the hardness of the tile, and how many layers of tiles. Things like Sand and Fertilizer will first leak then break very easily, while constructed tiles take very significant quantities of liquid. The old rule of thumb was 3 layers of tiles are unbreakable, but I understand there was a change since then that means it may only be 2 layers needed. Also, Airflow Tiles can never break from liquid pressure, because they are full of air, not metal. There is no liquid in ONI that can break a gas, so...
@PhailRaptor Oh, got it. Had my water tank break and flood my coal generators and assumed that gas pressure works like in real life. XD
Straight up SPOM here. Slightly more compact than the Rodriguez. 2 electrolyzers, 4 oxy pumps and 1 hydro pump. It's mostly limited by how much oxygen we need so as long as you have enough dupes or space to pressurize it runs everything nicely. Later on you can throw some bypasses on and shunt the excess to an oxylite forge
The second I open youtube on the internet this comes up first in my home page. How did they guess that my over-the-limits love for hydras would make this video perfect to watch? xD
I know a lot of people love them compared to SPOM's and my channel has no content on them… So, it was time :)
Hi for an engineer you're quire liberal with expensive materials. :)
Most of the radiant pipes can be shortened. A couple of hydrogen generators aren't going to output that much heat.
You are absolutely correct, I'm not looking at the materials too much in my tutorials. When I give recommendations, then only to make sure all players will have the same experience, even if the coolant doesn't match mine for example. There are too many variables to give a one-all be-all solution that works in basically every players game, so I try to keep it open to the players to find their best solution with what they learned :)
Nice setups. I typically go with Full SPOM in my base. The Hydra is certainly an interesting design though seems like it's a lot harder to setup. It takes up more space and you gotta get all those liquids in and properly balanced and then vac out the chamber which I've found tends to take a long time in places as the air pressure just keeps getting lower and lower down into the grams until after a few cycles all the gas is finally gone and you have a vacuum. Built in storage is nice but Hydra setup feels misleading as other commenters have pointed out there is not enough Oxygen pumps to pull all the oxygen you are creating.
On a side note is the gas infinite storage really work? With liquid you have to use the Airflow blocks because otherwise the pressure will break the blocks and the liquid spills out. With air though I've had giant steam rooms burst on me as it had too much steam in there, which is a gas. Because of this concern I've rarely used infinite gas storage as I rarely over produce that much to actually need it and simply throttle the machines producing it. Only exception is CO2 which is byproduct of a lot of things so can't really turn off it's production.
It seems complicated to setup, but it's not that bad. I did it in my Let's Play "live" just after I posted this video. The main benefit of the Hydra is that it is modular with build in storages. So if you have 1 Electrolyzers or 21 makes no difference, it looks and works the same way. The gas storages do work, since gas pressure is calculated differently than liquids.
Liquids are generally considered "not compressible", which means if you put more and more in one single space, something has to give eventually. Gas on the other hand is very compressible(compressed air, like in your car tires), so it will not break your tiles. Not sure what you experienced with Steam, I have never build a really overpressured steam room or a infinite storage for steam. It should be possible though.
@@BierTier The steam room was back in Vanilla pre Spaced out DLC. I wanted some geo thermal power and a way to clean my polluted water. So I built a giant open room over lava and hot ground. I kept pumping in polluted water and easily was keeping 200+ Temp on steam with enough stored heat in there to run for hundreds of cycles as well as running my cooling loop into it to dump off heat. Had 4 Steam Turbines powered with it.
After running without issue for hundreds of cycles suddenly I noticed a bunch of machines nearby breaking and when I checked they were all over heating because a break in the side of the chamber. When I patched it I once again saw it start to break from over pressure with only gasses on both sides. I ended building wall 2 thick and turned off pipe that had been pumping P.Water in to turn to steam. Eventually pressure got low enough I didn't have to keep replacing the wall.
Not sure what happen or if it was something later patched out but didn't try infinite gases again after that.
@@PyroMancer2k
Heat maybe?
Or maybe something had gotten stuck one random tile (Sometimes a critter may get locked inside a built tile because it dropped into that space just when a Dupe built it, and afaik, if a loose material has nowhere to get kicked off from an occupied tile, it just stays there, but can very much still heat up.
Re: Rodriguez vs Hydra I would say neither. I prefer long 1 tile high pools of polluted water, deodorizers, and some automation. Why? oxygen/water conversion is about the same but the deodorizers will produce large quantities of clay. Plentiful ceramics are great for late game builds.
=....HMPH.........MAYBE U SHOULD USE ETHANOL DISTILLERS AND SUBLIMATION STATIONS, THOUGH
=BC OF DUDE, 50g/s*TILE ISNT SO GREAT, U KNOW.......... AND POKESHELLS AS WELL.............AND ARBORS CAN BE WILD AT LEAST PART OF THEM SO THE SYSTEM COULD VE BEEN RUNNING BY ITSELF,RIGHT?
When you give the amount of power hydra's hydrogen generators, do you take into account that running pumps and electrolyzers isn't free? Is the power they use already subtracted from your numbers?
You have one pump for oxygen and one for hydrogen in your first hydra setup (3 electrolyzers). Whats the point of having 3 electrolyzers (oxygen 888 * 3 g/s) when you pump out less than one electrolyzer's output worth of oxygen (500 g/s)?
Edit: nvm I see others already noticed this
The solution you use will always depend on the scenario you are playing. For example if you are playing a one dupe challenge no need for a spom. localized hydras will be a better option. or you may choose a non exploit playthrough, then you are using SPOM. Try playing a mini base game without infinite storages :) I really find the exploit vs non exploit comparisons useless. It is a game and it is here for us to enjoy.
I usually try not to use exploits as someone mentioned if it gets patched or buggs out you will have a nightmare to deal with in your hands...
I do 90% of the time use SPOM and I have the blueprint for it so I just slap it depending on the game I play. I mostly use gold for the equipment because you sometimes end up with very hot water and it the SPOM breaks you know how that goes.. I would like to send you the one I have for you to check out. I have close to 2000 hours and I know one thing. If it involves Dupes all can go wrong... so it was built with dupes in mind :)
Just started playing ONI, and have a question about this set up. As far as I understand, A single pump can only support 5 dupes, how would you cram the 5 pumps needed for the 25 dupes (first form of the hydra)?
You can always make the area bigger to fit as many pumps as you need to match the output :)
Damn the hydra is dope... as long as you prime it that is XD
Without a good prime, you will have a bad time! Too cheesy? Probably, I’m gonna send it anyways 😂
rodriguez
Definitely a good choice!
infinite storage can be improved by using bridges priorites to go initial flow trough. and only if not enough - pump will be started
I think I like the Hydra the best. :-) Very good video!
Thank you! The Hydras are definitely very neat, especially due to the easy expandability!
I love your clear explanations of all things ONI, but I'm still hazy on the priming of hydras. Do you vacuum out and then just run the electrolisers and they automatically filter out O2 and H to specific sides? Or do you need to have another vent coming in from an external store to put o2 and H where you want them first? If so, how do you deconstruct these elements from the sealed container?
I'm still working my way thru all your videos and they are some of my standard go-to's for this games mechanics. Thanks, from Hamburg!
I'm not sure you really explained the specific advantages and disadvantages of both setups. You basically only mentioned that the hydras has infinite storage, but tbh, once you factor in things like correct number of oxygen pumps it seems like it's at a space disadvantage compared to extra large SPOMS.
If the asteroid have sufficient supply of water, I always go with hydra. This is good for late game build of liquid Hydrogen and Oxygen as I have tons available already backed up for hundreds of cycle.
Hello thank ou for your tutorials ! Hydra or Spom system have delete gazs on the process ?
Neither of the systems deletes any gas. They are basically just different ways to accomplish the same result :)
Why did you make it Heavy-Watt Conductive Wire if there's only a 1600 watts going through the SPOM?
The normal conductive wire is made from Ore, while the Heavy-Watt Wire is made from refined metals. Ore is finite in the game, where refined metal is infinite(if you have any kind of metal volcanoes). In the mid to late game, I replace all wires made from Ore with Refined Metal ones for that reason
How do I share a compact mechanical 100% efficiency build? More likely, how do I test for efficiency, the numbers are wild, but I can seemingly self power with a little extra (30W)
When you cool your O2 with the incoming water, you should cool your O2 first then your H2 burners. They can work at 50C and nobody cares. The O2 being at 25C is nicer than having burners at 40C and O2 at 40C too. :)
Yeah, you are correct. Not sure how that slipped my mind, but I'm glad you caught it! Thank you :)
I dumped 200 kg of water each, but the water stays a small blob, what is going wrong?
I could be wrong, but isn't conductive heavy watt wire total overkill for a SPOM?
you are correct, certain aspects of the example builds are overkill but at the end of the day the examples are really just to show off the core mechanics of each system. I could potentially see heavy watt conductive wire being put in if the hydrogen generators were directly linked to a bases main power spine. In a real setting i could def see where corners could be cut to save on resources.
If I wrote a script for a programming tutorial video, would be interested in voice acting it?
I’m glad you like my voice, but I think I have more than enough on my plate right now ;)
It seems u could eliminate most of the o2 pumps by making an open vent maze filled with radiant pipe only leaving the hydrogen sensor to build for the hydro pump
Rodriguez I believe needs back pressure so hydrogen will not leak out. And Hydra by design is infinite storage so you'll end up with too high pressure in your base unless you vent the excess or regulate it some other way
Hmm i have a seed that has 4 salt water, 2 water and 2 cool steam now imagine the amount of water i have i use both the Rodriguez spom to supply oxygen to my base but the hydra is better to supply power into my power spine
23:50 I was really hoping for deodorisers or lights for the visual example 😆
Hahaha, I doubt I can fit 6720 ceiling lights on the screen without the game just crashing 🤣
I don't get what the transformator is for in the build that only uses less than 1000Kw anyway. Batteries can accept any amount of power regardless so it doesn't have to be protected.
If I had to guess, probably for expansion purposes into a larger machine. There's no real difference between building it now or later, and if you have the materials there's no reason no to.
In reality, all SPOMs will not run at 100% uptime, meaning you will find more extra power than just the extra 160W. And because most of your other machines won't run all the time either, you can use a Smart Battery to power the bulk of an early game base pretty easily.
To be totally fair and exact... With that set up of 18:50 you cant keep 26 dupes alive, just 5... Remember the pump's g/sec speed... 😏
Jokes aside, fantastic video!!
You are correct, can't deny it, haha :D
The pump was an oversight on my end... If you slap 5 more in there the math is right though, haha ;)
I definitely prefer the spom for its relative simplicity. My dupes could even run in to fix an overloaded wire from when I crossed the streams.
Also, it feels to me that hydra relies on a gimmicky quirk in mechanics.
It's fine as such, but if I don't need to rely on it, I prefer not to.
Definitely all valid points! But, in case it’s ever needed, it never hurts to have options available :)
@@BierTier ahh yes, Options.
That would be the set of rings with permanent Bound Armor, Sword and Shield that I had in Morrowind. "Just in case my real armor breaks."
Until I accidentally sold the real one and just went Emperor's new clothes.
Or dragging a hard hitting summer/warrior through the MUD's Labyrinth because everyone said that it couldn't be done. Turns out that actually it was merely excruciatingly impractical.
Knowing myself, I will end up with one world with every megalomaniac build I can think of. To see that I can.
But for now, I will conveniently misplace that selfreflection.
*scampers off looking for bier*
That are good builds, of course. But I see exploits of flawed game mechanics. For example, endless amounts of gas can potentially be stored in one tile. This could easily be fixed by limiting the possible amount per tile. But anyway, there are many ways, and I hope Klei finds reasonable solutions.
These “bugs” are in the game since release, Klei is well aware of them and choose not to fix them. I think they like the crazy things people come up with, it provides free advertisement for their game afterall, like this tutorial here :)
I doubt they will ever fix something like this. It's not game breaking and people don't have to use it, but can. It's a win/win for everybody :)
@@BierTier I can use it myself, and of course, it benefits me. But sometimes, it is also boring and rather demotivating. But I am happy about the current development of the game: more skins and other things on the horizon.
one of best guids
Thank you, I truly appreciate it!
Does the Hydra still work?
Yep, still 100% functional!
Hmm will try again lol
I failed last night.
Still feel the hydra is kinda cheaty. To each their own but any "infinite storage" solution just breaks my brain.
I mean, yeah, it is a bit cheaty. That's why it's nice that it is just an option. Nobody has to use them to be successful in the game, but at the same time they add a lot more possibilities and fun things to do to the game :)
@@BierTier Oh, no arguments from me. As mentioned, "to each their own."
As an aside, I'm curious to see what options you could do to handle cooling that *aren't* "aqua-tuner + steam turbine," which is just so stupidly efficient that it annoys me, TBH.
@StormTAG You could try building a Fire Breathing Hydra - a setup that produces cool oxygen, refines metals, and boils Petroleum. No Steam Turbine. XD
@@Lorens4444 Dumping heat in to oil before sending it into a oil refinery used to be a thing I did. Kind of hypocritical, now that I think about it, since deleting heat *also* is kinda cheaty.
@StormTAG But what if you'd boil oil with that heat instead?
SPOM as early game 50 + cycle and hydra is 300+ cycle for me
man, electrolyzer really doesn't make sense don't they.
Turning 1kg of Water (H2O) into 888g of oxygen and 112g of hydrogen... While the compound is called H2O where there's two molecules of hydrogen and 1 molecule of oxygen 😂
In real life, if electrolysis is used, there is twice as much Hydrogen produced than Oxygen. This is due to the H2O structure(1 Oxygen atom, 2 Hydrogen atoms). Per definition, if you split that molecule up, you'll end up with O and H2. It is also a power-negative process in real life, requiring about 53kW of energy to produce 1kg worth of Hydrogen, which contains 33.6kW of energy.
On the other side, an Oxygen atom is way heavier than a Hydrogen atom
Very true, Oxygen has an atomic weight of 16 compared to the 1 atomic weight of Hydrogen. Lots of variables for sure!
Makes sense to me, it's measuring mass, not moles.
@@ctrlaltdebug You are correct. I just had to take a closer look at that. If you are getting 888 grams of Oxygen through Electrolysis, you will end up with 112 grams of Hydrogen. The math did look odd to me without checking, but doing it myself, it's accurate on the amounts. The power consumption doesn't reflect real life at all, though, haha :)
I prefer SPOM,
Hydra may be patched out at some point.
There is always a possibility that a patch breaks builds like that, very true. I doubt that is gonna happen though, the added value to the game is too high and the underlying mechanic to make it all work is one of the most important rules of the game “One Element per Tile at any given time”. To change that would mean to change the entire game and I personally don’t see that happening until a ONI2 is released :)
But yes, the SPOM is definitely here to stay, no matter what :)
@@BierTier All they need to do is to get rid of the Airflow Tiles. They are simply too broken considering that the molecule size doesn't change based on the state of matter. XD
If you have Piped outputs mod downloaded this doesn't works
I unfortunately don’t know that mod, so I haven’t tried it with that
@@BierTier It's a fairly popular mod, i had it installed and couldn't make hydra work until i disable the mod, this could be helpful information to someone like me trying to find why their hydra doesn't working, and i want to say thanks for your tutorials you are a legend
Absolutely, it’s great info if a certain mod breaks a build! Thanks for that!
And thank you for the high praise, I appreciate it!
SPOM not working guaranted 100% of time( can be checked on props tab)
I swear no matter what i do this does not work in any base ive tried it and i have 100% the same as this but only using 1 power gen no transformer
* tried the 2 & 4 systems both failed to work literally just made the 2 setup system and it does not work either
Maybe stop by my Discord channel and share some screenshots or further info and we'll help you out. The systems definitely work, there must be a mistake somewhere :)
hail hydra!
Your explanation lacks important detail that it doesn't work and hydrogen just strays elsewhere
=OBVIOUSLY HYDRA IS *BETTER* BC OF _IT DOESNT SUFFER FROM OVERPRESSURE!!!!!!!!!!!_
=SO, EVERYONE SHOULD VE BEEN USING THESE, AND SCREW THAT "EWW THAT'S CHEATING!!"