DON'T LIFT YOUR JEEP! Total failure of Rzeppa CV joint (and how to avoid it.)
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- Опубліковано 11 січ 2018
- Many Jeeps currently being made are coming with drivelines equipped with Rzeppa style CV joints. These joints work just fine in stock applications, but don't fare so well when you put in a suspension lift. This video covers the total failure of the front driveline CV in my friend's 2007 Jeep JKU.
Link to Tom Wood's Custom Drive Shafts: www.4xshaft.com/
This video wasn't sponsored by Tom Wood's Custom Drive Shafts in any way, shape, or form. I was just pleased with the customer service and the quality of the product and though I would give them a shout-out. - Авто та транспорт
High angle Teraflex Rpezza joint and poof it's fixed for a long time. Not as good as a double u-joint driveshaft, but much better than stock.
Exactly what I’ve been NEEDING to see. JUST bought a ‘15 Sahara JK & realized the front CV @ the transfer case was torn/ripped “just enough” to throw a light spray of grease on the floor’s thermal barrier. Been talking to the dealership about REPLACING the front d/s as it’s under warranty...THEN maybe I’ll save to swap them out. Thanks for the vid, I really appreciate it!
Thanks! Mine just blew out on my way from Illinois to Buffalo Wyoming. Happened on my decent into Devil's Tower area. Miles from home, scary situation. Swapped good CV from front driveshaft to the back.
Good to see you making videos! Love the old Toyota ones, they’ve helped me many times over the years
+Ryan Skerbeck. Thanks man, I appreciate it. Stay tuned, I'm gearing up to finally make the video on how I build a hand throttle for the Toyota out of bicycle parts for less than $20.
DUH...anything 3.5 and taller (in a JK series) you are HIGHLY recommend an after market shaft.
I have a 3.5" lift on my 2015 2 door Rubicon on 37s with stock drive shafts. I have no issues with factory rzeppa joints at all. I've been through the Rubicon Trail and many other trails. You can't just go out and hammer your Jeep offroad and never perform any maintenance or visual checks.
Basic maintenance and care are important for sure. It's not so much of a joint failure as it is a boot failure problem. If you get under the rig at regular intervals and watch those boots you should be fine. The unfortunate part is that if the boot does fail and you don't catch it quickly, the resulting failure at speed can be quite catastrophic. This particular jeep in the video was just a pavement pounder, never been offroad probably ever. I don't know many vehicle owners outside of wheelers who think to get under their rigs and look at drivelines. This thing probably had a lot of miles on it before the boot ultimately failed.
3.5" on mine with 35s and mine is shot. It happens.
@@WheeliePete lol I love it, pavement pounder. Ive heard of mall crawlers but this is a new one.
I can’t thank you enough for all the help with my Jeep! Seriously, you’re a wealth of information and an amazing mechanic. Great video!
Just bought a used 4 door jk with a 3.5 lift. Guy had 35s, no re gearing and found the front boot ripped. Idk why people put a lift and big tires without doing everything needed to make that setup work. Lowered the jeep down to a 2 inch lift and adding the teraflex cv high angle kit
Yeah, you have to think about everything downstream from your modification. It's the same reason people will slap on a turbo and then wonder why their stock bottom end just crapped the bed.
For a 2dr JK the problem is even worse. The angles are more extreme for the same amount of lift. I had a 2 1/2 inch budget boost with pucks. I didnt like the ride so decided to get a kit with full Springs. I chose to go for a 3 inch spring lift. Hey whats 1/2 inch right. Well, it turned out a lot. The kit was designed to work on 2dr and 4dr. So, on a 2dr the lift was even greater. I haven't been able to tell exactly what the total lift is now but somewhere between 3.5 and 4 inchs I'm estimating. Now my drive-line angles are up there so having to get a driveshaft for front at a minimum and went ahead and got one for the rear as well. That requires rear upper control arms also. So, that 1/2 inch turned out costing me a lot more than I bargained for.
Great video thanks I have a 2008 jk 2 door the abs and esp bas came on wheel speed sensor? Much thanks for any info
You'd think there were tell tale signs before the failure. I like the upgraded driveshaft though
Ive had a Old Man Emu 3" lift on an 08 JKU for 12 years. No issues. I believe thats the maximum lift without having to change out to a new shaft. Plus disconnecting the sway bar contributes to failure
I wish my Wood drive shaft would have come with zerts on the out side of the cups, the one I got you have to remove the front shaft from the jeep to install a zert in the rear U joint to grease it, then remove the zert and reinstall the drive shaft
Great video. Thanks.
Can I say Toyota Barfield joint . I use them in my 1985. Upgraded to the All Pro offroad joints. Yes, only 4:88 geears with 33's.
I'm a Toyota guy myself. I have a collection of shattered Birfield parts on the work bench. The Toyota world got a lot better after Bobby Long started reinforcing the rings and cryo-treating the bells years ago (Longfields). Bobby's gone now, but you can buy some sick Birfs made out of really good material that will hold up to dang near anything from RCV performance products. Moves the weak point to the hubs or the ring & pinion though... This is the ultimate solution for Toyota Birfields: www.rcvperformance.com/product-details.aspx?sku=CVJ2851-PU
We at Tom Wood's Custom Drive Shafts think this is the best explanation of the Rzeppa CV that we have seen. We would like to embed your video on the JK section of our website. Please let us know if you have any objections @wheeliepete.
No objections from me if you want to link or embed the UA-cam video on your website. Thanks!
Thanks for the great video.. now I know how to fix my problem
Nice job on your video.
I have a question regarding the Teraflex Rzeppa High-Angle Factory replacement CV joint kit for $150. Although I see that replacing the drive shaft with u joints on both ends, does the Teraflex CV joint kit meet the challenge or is this just a Band-Aid to the problem?
It's a tough call... The high angle replacement from Teraflex is, IN MY OPINION, a band-aid, but it's a good one. It really boils down to how much you are going to push your rig off road and how much lift you are working with. The Rzeppa joint is a FANTASTIC joint for high speed rolling down the road constantly changing angle as the suspension moves. Hands down it's a better system than a u-joint for that application. The PROBLEM is that a CV joint like the Rzeppa does not like to be shock loaded at angle (think stock Toyota birfield joints and 35" tires turned to lock = kaboom!) I would say, if you are running mostly street with some occasional off road the Teraflex is a great solution for avoiding what happened to my buddy with the front shaft up at the t-case end. If you are planning on big tires, low gears, and rocks, you're better off going with the beef of U-joints (and a real slip yoke system.) Seriously, that slip yoke system Jeep used with the two driveshaft tubes being splined to each other makes me really nervous. First rock you hit hard with that shaft on the splined area and you are probably screwed...
I can appreciate that. New twist to the same scenario... I bought a high-end warranty when I bought the Jeep, which includes seals and a ton of other stuff that I won't ever use. I'm bringing the Jeep into the dealer today to find out if they'll warranty the CV joint. -> I fall into the "drive a lot on road, occasionally off-road" category. That being said, does it make more sense for me to simply replace the CV joint with the OEM version as long as it's covered under warranty? Let's also consider that it's not covered; knowing my drive style, it seams like the Terra Flex CV Joint will do the job.
Thanks for the video and your comments. I understand the limitations of the Rzeppa CV joint and will work towards some new Tom Woods shafts.
Rich Gran Right on. EXACTLY where I’m at with the warranty of a ‘15 Sahara JK. Was in the process of deciding WHICH route is more feasible & prudent; This particular Jeep won’t see that much, IF ANY, ‘angles’, rocks, etc off-roading (I’m in Central Tx above Austin), as we have a ‘99 TJ for that stuff...
Great job.
$ x $ !!!!! yes sir!!! :) Nice video... new subscriber here. Thanks for sharing your insights.
So can I install a new driveshaft without having to adjust the pinion angle? My front stock driveshaft is shot, but I was worried about adding the aftermarket driveshaft, as my control arms are not adjustable. 2.5'' lift on 08 2dr JK
You shouldn't have to mess with your pinion angle, unless of course the reason you old shaft is shot is because of bad (uneven) pinion angles, but at 2.5" of lift you should be fine. When you order a new shaft from a custom driveshaft builder like Tom Woods you actually take some measurements and talk with them and then they build you a shaft that is specific to (and will fit) your application.
Thank you for the info. JEEP Just Empty Every Pocket $$.
Do I need a adams drive shaft if I lift my 2021 jt gladiator? Front and rear or neither with 2.5 lift and 37 wheels?
I doubt with only 2.5" of lift the front driveshaft angle will be a problem. I'm not familiar with the Gladiator geometry though so hopefully someone with more knowledge will chime in.
Great vid! Quick question...for someone that does zero off roading in my recently lifted (2 inches) 2014 4-door JKU with 64K miles, is this something I need to be concerned about? TIA!
Shouldn't be a problem until you're at 4"+ lift. I'd roll under the rig every few months though and just inspect that upper joint on the front shaft to make sure the boot isn't torn or leaking grease.
@@WheeliePete Thank you!
Probably not. I lifted my ZJ a couple inches about 30k miles ago. I also have a CV joint front driveshaft. I haven't had any weird vibrations or anything. I did however lower the transfer case 3/4 of an inch in order to keep a straighter driveshaft angle.
Good vid
Though I believe CV joint quieter than double cardan method at the high speeds.
If you can hear or feel the difference between CV joint and U-Joint driveshafts in a lifted jeep on large tires, you probably have driveline balance issues, a worn out joint at one end or the other, or you've got the driveline angles out of phase. The CV is a more efficient joint, but it just doesn't like shock loads at angles. Great for freeway driving, not so great for off-roading.
The cost of replacing a CV where I live on 4x4s is very expensive VS the cost of replacing a U-joint.
Also of interest: "CV joints can handle certain torque/loads with more extreme angles than U joints. U joints can handle very high torque/loads with less angle."
That's a 4 inch lift though so yeah the further up you go the more things you have to adjust. I got a 2.5 lift what's the risk there?
What you need to do is crawl under and look at how the transfer case output's CV boots are being stressed. You're probably fine until those boots start to rip. If you've got a 2.5" lift and a 4-door the rear driveline is probably going to be just fine as the rear shaft is pretty long and spreads out the angles; the front you'll want to monitor. The other thing I would do is jack the rig up and support the frame with jackstands so that the suspension can hang at full droop (Frame supported, axle allowed to hang without wheels touching the ground). If you disconnect the front sway-bar to go wheeling, disconnect that too as it will allow the suspension to move some more. With the rig at full droop, go take a look at the angle on that front transfer case output CV and see how it looks. Also, see if the driveshaft is touching the cross member or the exhaust . Those Jeep driveshafts have a huge diameter and hitting the exhaust becomes a real possibility. If you've got a ramp style loading dock nearby you might go try to flex up a front corner and see how the shaft's angles and clearances look flexed out.
WheeliePete thanks for your reply, I also had a 1988 ford bronco 2 with the same problem. Wound up replacing the driveshaft 4 times before i could get rid of the thing ( first 2 were warranty). Dan woods wasn't an option then,
It was a bomb going off
I need a buddy like you 😏 this just happened us coming down a mountain 😭
Don’t they start with making noise for a certain amount of time before just letting go ?
I would assume so, but once that grease evacuates it's not going to take very long, especially at higher speed. In this particular case the driver was in 4hi on a rough snow covered road so he probably didn't hear it getting bad with all the road noise.
WheeliePete my boot is torn but no noise yet I’m ordering a new drive shaft from tom woods but this one is still working I’m just scared of complete failure before I get it changed
If you can get up in there you might be able to take a grease gun with a small tip and pump some more grease up into the assembly through the boot tear. You could also pull the driveshaft down and pack more grease in the joint (pop off the back cover of the joint and force grease into the joint). If it's the front shaft you are talking about you can always just pull it completely out and drive around with 2wd until you get a new front shaft.
WheeliePete so you think adding regular grease will buy me some time ? But it didn’t make any noise at all yet
I'd at least try and see if you can determine that there's still grease up in the joint. Look at the area on the floorpan above the joint to see if there's a grease line from grease getting flung out. If the floorpan above the joint is clean you're probably good to go for a while. If there's a grease line on the floorpan, I would be looking to get some grease back in the joint.
Tom Woods drive line with U-Joint ALL FUCKING DAY!
There’s no substitute for getting your lazy ass under your Jeep for a thorough inspection at least once a month or after an intense wheeling trip. I’ve replaced both the rear and front driveshaft T-case CV joints caught early by routinely going under the Jeep for cleaning and inspection. I run 3.5 inches of lift and got 136k miles out of these joints and hope to get that on the new joints.
The caveat when replacing Rzeppa CV joints is thorough packing of the joint bearings.
Follow the teraflex video to the T and you shouldn’t have a problem. So far, I have 10k on the rear teraflex joint.
Just replaced the front with an OEM joint, but like the Teraflex high angle one better
One reason is the gaskets are fixed onto the front and rear housings which eliminates the possibility of the gasket slipping out of place when assembling on the driveshaft.
I will consider this solution when my U/J 's give up.
So basically revert back to TJ
lmao tats right
I’m keeping my 2021 jeep Willy’s 2door stock
just buy the tereflex cv upgrade. no reason to upgrade the front drive shaft unless you beat the crap out of it
The Tereflex high angle CV upgrade does remedy the boot issue, but it does nothing for the driveshaft to exhaust clearance and you are still left with that terrible slip/expansion design with the formed tubes on the stock shaft. You're probably right that it will be fine if you don't wheel it hard, but where's the fun in that?
WheeliePete with the aftermarket rzeppa joint as well as the appropriate clearance for the exhaust, courtesy of exhaust spacers, would that not completely solve the problem? the aftermarket driveshaft is obviously stronger, but not entirely necessary, correct?
@@nicolasprice9860 Yeah, if you can do the exhaust spacer thing and the high-angle Rzeppa that should work.
This exact thing happened to me last weekend... fml...
you gotta check your boots man
Even of you don't lift they still have issues.
140,000 miles on your friends Jeep? Did I hear that right? The double Cardin joints won't last anywhere near that many miles. His driveshaft exploded due to poor maintenance. It's his own fault. Not the lift kits fault. To have a video saying don't lift your Jeep because of stock driveline that failed way past any normal life expectancy is wrong. Are upgraded shafts a bonus. In the front sometimes needed. The rears don't NEED them done. Matter of fact if you can keep the stock joints they will be longer lasting and smoother operation.
145K TOTAL miles on the jeep, he only went about 10,000 miles after he put the 4" lift on before the front one grenaded. Since the rear driveline had plenty of grease and no slop in the joints, we can assume that the front t-case output Rzeppa was fine before the lift. It's not the joint that fails first. As stated in the video, It's the rubber boot that can't take the angle after the lift and tears. Once that thing tears and the grease vacates, it's game over in short order. Beyond the boot problem, Rzeppa style joints don't take shock loads very well (especially at angles...). Rzeppa joints do however, run smoother than u-joint style drivelines which is why I'm sure Jeep engineers spec them for the stock vehicles, because let's face it, the vast majority of people buying a new Jeep aren't exactly going to wheel the crap out of them. Unlike the stock Rzeppa, the double cardan can be built to withstand stupid-huge loads if you wanna go the 1350 solid u-joint route. Double cardan's will last a VERY long time if you just grease them when you do oil changes. The other major issue is that the stock front driveshaft on the JK has a ridiculous outside diameter because Jeep uses that stupid integrated slip yoke by forming the actual tubes of the driveshaft into a slip joint splined interface. The diameter is so freaking huge that you can hit the driveshaft on your exhaust pipe when you flex out. The boot around the driveshaft gets torn and shredded and now you expose that part of the assmebly to dirt and grit. If the slip yoke locks up it's gonna yank on the Rzeppa also. Teraflex was supposed to be working on a full replacement driveline with a smaller diameter shaft and their high-angle rzeppa joints (which basically just have a larger flange opening and larger boot), but I haven't seen that driveshaft hit the market yet (it's not on Teraflex's website as of this last weekend)... The title on the video is designed to draw people in, watch it and get them to comment. Mission accomplished. ;-)
P.S. I'm a huge advocate for using as little lift as possible. You can actually get 37's on a JK with VERY little lift. It looks bitchin' and becomes super-capable with big tires and a low center of gravity.
$X$ 😂😂