having army out takes map control, when to age up depends on how aggressive the opponent is, if hes going to attack you and it's not safe to age up, you can't. When to go for 2tc is a matter of can you safely take the 2nd tc with your army to hold off the attack if they do? What if they're taking the 2nd tc? Scout opponent and play accordingly.
Since you can only get a Gastraphetoros in the Mythic Age as Hades (I guess atlantean could technically traitor one but I'm not counting that and neither should anyone else) its "practical" base stats are actually 24 range and an 11x multiplier against buildings due to Hades's passive bonuses. Doubt that moves it on your tier list but it's worth mentioning to the viewers who might not remember that off the top of their head. Similar example when you go to do the infantry list will be the myrmidon always practically having a 1.5x multiplier against buildings tied to it despite that technically not being a part of its "wiki" base stats
@@MetalKing1417 No it doesn't since you can get toxotes with other major gods and before the mythic age. Gastraphetoros will always have 24 range and 11x against buildings "out of the box" so to speak
Can you explain this a little more? Does aging up give hidden bonuses to units? Or are you talking about assuming they got the upgrades from earlier ages?
Wow fancy editing at the start. Best part is still hearing your unfiltered and unedited commentary. Very authentic feel and I can tell how passionate you are about the game. It’s infectious and I can’t wait to see your channel continue to grow so fast.
Dude you are making some killer content. I could watch these videos everyday. I really enjoy the mix of data analytics and subjective feelings from an experienced player. I’m sure you have plans for more of these types covering the remaining unit types, and I would love to also see some sort of guide talking about macro specific topics. As a newer player I have lots of questions about what upgrades to prioritize, and when is it worth it to upgrade units as opposed to just making more units with the resources. Anyways keep up the great work you’re doing!
I liked the chill background music And personally Hero Arcuses are absolute beasts, with regen you can more or less exchange small amounts of arrow fire and trade on your favour Also seeing colossi or giants die in a few volleys of hero archers is absolutely hillarious
Finally someone who understands the concept of S-tier, and doesn't fill it up with half the units. And very useful to use excel to show actual values compared. Great content.
Minor feedback: I suppose you wanted some numbers to stand out, but for me green is good, and red is bad. So my brain had a bit of an hard time reading the Excel, but not a big deal either. I liked the little epic intro and the chill music.
I haven't player the retold yet, but in the original you could really buff your CA with a tech, I think it is from sekhmet or something like that, that gives the unit a huge range making them almost invulnerable.
Gasta 8x vs buildings, but it's peirce damage and TC etc start with 90% Pierce armour. Gasta eventually gets 11x vs buildings bonus but still, it's not as bonkers as you'd think. Ajax 11x vs Myth units however...
Thank you for all your videos man! Really helpful! And as a video editor I like the changes at the style, makes it more smooth (good intro too). Can't wait to see more!
They did use bows but it is true that they considered them dishonorable. In the mythology Paris was considered one of the best archers in Troy but rarely used the bow in battle because he felt ashamed while using it and all of his brothers used melee weapons and mocked him for a coward when using the bow. That was until his brother was killed by Aquilles, which made him grab his bow for the next battle and kill Aquiles with a famous arrow to the heel. Coincidentally, Paris was also killed, shortly after his victory by a famous greek archer that had arrows covered with the hydra´s poision but I do not remember all the details about it now. And surprise surprise, the nimph that was Paris´s dumped ex girlfriend before meeting Helena was the only one who could save him from the poison. Because of jelousy, the nymph did not help him even when Helena begged her on her knees. Once Paris died he was burned like it is tradition for the greeks. While the bonfire was burning the nymph appeared crying out of nowhere and hurled herself into the fire, turning into dust with her former lover. I got off point but my conclusion is: Do not date nymphs, they crazy.
I love these videos, thank you Magic, you help me out a lot with this one and make me think about what makes a ranged unit and Calvary good, apprciate the the info, you help me love AOM more
Worth noting is thrown axemen get +1 range for each upgrade. 10 is just the base range but goes up to 13 (or 14 for skadi). Same for Turma and Peltas: +1 per upgrade. which gets peltasts to 21 range (more than the chariots and arcus!) and turma up to 15 to match tox. Versus chariots and tox have their default but it does not increase (except god choice)
Great vid for someone getting back into the game. Background music level was great, and I like the format w/ the Excel comparison. Gonna binge the other tier list vids now.
Love your content Magic! I would love if you made a tutorial on how to micro properly. I notice you do that so efficiently and effectively in your games, and I never really learned how to do it (played the original game since I was a kid). Would be very helpful for newer players to learn the ropes of micro-ing!
I’d be curious how the rankings would change if you factor in minor god technologies, for example Valley of the Kings from Thoth effectively halving the price of Chariot archers by giving you two per train, or Slings of the sun from Sekhmet increasing the slingers use against infantry. (Sorry I can only think of egyptian examples right now, but I know the other civs have upgrades for their archers too, I doubt all are equally impactful though! Valley of the Kings is kinda op.)
I agree. I came to ask the same thing. Specifically, If going Ptah 'Electrum Bullets' into Sekhmet 'Slings of the Sun' as Set (speed boost) I would assume the slinger would out perform the chariot archer in a fight even later in the game. But maybe not.
Keep doing unit tier lists! But one of the things your missing is Upgrades! You should also do a tier list of them with classic, heroic, and mythic level upgrades with also their respective gods that boost them even more. When fully upgraded with everything possible, are they still in the same tier?
I think tox would still be S tier, but yeah upgrades are important but it will be a very long video and I don't have too much time since i'm also working a full time job :( sorry
@IamMagicAOM no preassure man, your doing God's work. You did a lot of what I wanted to know , just one question how do you calculate average dps? Do you test it on a specific unit or building that has 0% hack or pierce and how do you go find median of the dmg per second when accounting of the wind up of the attack; since the turma take a longer time to attack compared to the toxotes. Do you use a minute interval and divide by 60?
@@jairocastillo3674 the game does it for you actually! it you hover over the the attack of a unit in game it will tell you. as for the calculation the DPS (damage per second) is what i use and its basically the damage divided by the attack speed
Thanks for another educational video! This time technologies feel much less obvious to me compared to cavalary techs. So here's an idea for a video: You could test some battle scenarios for ranged units. Toxotes are very spammable, especially with Hades (+1 range, 10% attack in classical through Ares or Apollo, free balistics). It would be interesting to see: - how much AOE damage can some units do to counter mass ranged? This is especially important when thinking about how many attacks you need to kill and which upgrades can take the threshold from e.g. 2 to 3 hits. I am thinking thinking especially of Centaur, Manticore, Cyclops and Satyr (with their upgrades) but also Sphinx, Scarab or Draugr - how effective Artemis' Shafts of Plague divine poison damage is. Does it stack and does it have a noticeable effect against units with decent pierce armor? - how much of a difference does perfect micro in a static fight (focus fire without overshooting) make compared to not microing? You already showed how abusable not microing Toxotes can be in your last video with Gaia using the Caladria. Also in regards to other ranged units: - you showed that Chariots can kite Toxotes indefinitely due to their range and speed. Can they also do this vs. other units such as the Peltast (with Sekhmet's Bone Bow?) - does Skadi's Huntress' Axe 100% accuracy make any difference for Throwing Axemen, given their short range? - can Slingers with Sekhmet's Slings of the Sun +0.75 multiplier against infantry trade cost efficiently against e.g. Murmillos, Hoplites or Spearmen (especially Set's Slingers which are cheaper and can get another 15% attack with Ptah's Electrum Bullets) - Rheia's Orichalcum Mail giving archers 20% hack AND pierce armor sounds super valuable. Leto can even boost that with another 10% pierce armor with Volcanic Forge, making me wonder how Arcus do vs (Hades) Toxotes
You could kite peltast too but it’s harder since the range differential is much smaller, at some point with the upgrades they have the same range and hades can have even more range From my games huntress axe seems like it makes a good diff in accuracy but I haven’t looked very carefully According to my friend the Mista he said the slingers with slings of sun are equivalent to a toxotes vs infantry so that’s really good if that’s the case! Archer vs archer arcus with the rheia upgrade might do very well but I’m always more concerned about how much dps they do rather than how tanky they are! Thanks for that write up!
One stat that might have been interesting especially at the end with gastraphetoros would be DPS per population since they're a tier 4 unit so would come in as a late game near max pop replacement so cost is less important than pop value.
Great video but worth to mention is that with Arcus, it can be made into a hero which boosts it's stats, not sure how much of a difference that make but i'd love to see a heroic Arcus in there as well.
Gastras are underrated imo, the fact that with upgrades they get bonus dmg against myth makes them effective against everything short of cavalry. Combined with their very high base damage and the inherent bonus from Hades a small cluster of these bois can oneshot most units in the game from a safe distance. Very effective for hit and run at either buildings or other armies as long as you can protect them.
Great video! I think it's important to note in what way you're ranking them. These look like the base stats of the units? But they come in at different ages so they would have upgrades that might affect them differently. Also you're talking about the base line unit as part of an army composition which is fair but might be worth a mention, since minor gods can massively mix up this list imo
Thanks for all the information you're sharing with us in these videos. As for the feedback you asked, the bg music as an idea is not bad, but could be a bit more thematic.
The heroizing feature of the Arcus and Cheirobalista shouldve been considered. Arcus is a great late game unit, especially with burning pitch. At that point they counter pretty much anything, and they're hard to take out. Expensive, but strong.
Great video. Not competitive, but with Freyr's cheap unit upgrade, burning pitch, and a mass 20-30 mass TAxemen makes them an S tier siege unit. Two volley a fortress. :) Can't wait for a ranged myth unit guide! Just want trolls to get some love.
Considering a roster will have at least 7 human soldier units, I think Throwing Axe Men are a really nice option to have. Chariot archers are great if you can already comfortably free up apm to micro them. Personally I really like Toxotes from a game theory pov. It creates a problem for my opponent, and I can counter their solution. If they get chariot archers for example, I can add Peltasts or Gastfracts. I also like Peltasts because they are really good at their task. You really feel it when you micro them and focus fire ranged units, they get +1 range per upgrade too. So far I've only been playing Hades tho. Some of the damage multipliers are really impactful. One might not see it if they ignore the numbers and think of x counters y or "has a bonus", there is a big difference between an 11x bonus and a 0.25% bonus.
Peltasts seems like something that should be nerfed. They are too op in many parameters. In my opinion balance is when each unit has only one parameter by which it prevails it's opponents. Peltasts should have their range decreased to 15 at least or even 12. 18 is too great for throwing weapon. It even doesn't make sense that they can throw their javelin farther than toxots shoot. And after this slingers will have at least one parameter in which they are good - range.
Great video Magic! Since you asked for feedback, personally not a fan of the background music. But at the same time it wouldn't really stop me from watching either way.
I think after recent buff chariot archers are in pretty good spot: they deal okayish damage to infantry but still not as damaging as other good dedicated archers, compensating for it with speed and range
If i remember correctly from AoM EE, Gastraphetes had upgrade from Hephaestus making them better against myth units with range 24 It's like a small siege unit which is kinda balanced between destroying buildings and killing units
Im really looking for the myth unit tier list (and of course melee units aswell) ! It will be a long one :D ! Probably the last one ? Thanks for your content :)
As a point of defense for Axemen: Scenario enemy Riders break past the line, Axemen hold better. Range only matters as long as you can hold distance or defeat the enemy before they are in range Also many tanky myth units as well as stuff like siege towers have good pierce resistance but worse hack resistance (massive difference for siege towers (5% vs 90%))
Can you do a video about best combined units? For me, a strong combo strategy in the Classical Age involves using Murmillos and Cheiroballistae. Both units can be upgraded to Heroes, with Cheiroballistae dealing triple damage to myth units. Murmillos are versatile melee fighters that become even stronger with the Shark Bite upgrade. You can also use Caladria, flying healers, to support your army. A combination of Murmillos, Cheiroballistae, and Caladria gives you a powerful and flexible army in the second age.
I like the new feel of the video 👍 I can see why would you rate the throwing axemen low, and to be fair, unless my opponent is using strong infantry I wouldn't make them in age 4... But TA do have some specialties, with burning pitch and hack damage, they can also tear into buildings
It would be awesome if you could do even more and compare how much better a Greek Hades who went with all the minor gods that give archer bonuses is than a normal toxotes! That’s probably a lot more work though, but it’s somewhere you could take the videos next!
Hi Magic! Been loving your videos :D Do you plan on making a Gaia build order guide? I know she isn't very strong right now, but I feel like she might be underrated, if not now maybe with a few buffs, but her minor god selection is quite versatile for an economic god and automaton spam is very interesting against certain civs, I would love to see your spin on playing her
for sure, this weekend i'm going to be practicing a lot of games and getting a feel for where the meta is at, I was a bit busy this week so didn't get many games in once I feel comfortable with her i'll make a guide for you guys
Thx for the video! Throwing axeman getting a 4x multiplier vs buildings which can be usefull in the lategame with burning pitch. They really shred buildings then.
@@Donar_AoM not necessarily. Thor usually has plenty of dwarves after all so gold is rarely a limiting factor for him as long as you do buy armory upgrades regularly (unless you were raided on gold or assign them to something else, but even then the cheaper dwarves help gathering gold quickly) and wood isnt directly used for an age up anyway. So usually it doesnt really hurt your wallet to get that in the heroic age at least, and id say thats a power boost that is very much worth the investment for the norse. Hell, if I get it it usually means I can afford to forgo rams and ballistas completely for siege, instead relying solely on axemen for it, which, in the end, may actually be cheaper (i mean, compare that upgrade price to a group of 4 rams, and it doesnt look that expensive to get anymore assuming you already have the axemen as part of your army)
@@thorveim1174 Yea it is worth a try. For age up i mean if you wanna go fast heoric or so you just switch wood gatherers to food so it will delay heoric time but maybe in heoric it could do work
hey, Magic I watched and enjoyed every single video you've done thank you a lot OI'd to ask and suggest for a tutorial teaching how to properly micro have a nice day
Your spreadsheet says 4 speed for arcus. Arcus speed is actually 3.8 (below average) but if you heroize its 4.1. (above average). all heroized units look to be about .3 speed + 10 hp + 1 damage. keep up the great work!
i thought i was good at aom when it first released until i bought retold and started to play ranked, watching all of your videos became aware i am trash hahaha but nice content, you got a viewer for life!
It's insane how the toxote is already best dps before unique upgrades when hades can get 3 of those with minor gods while chariot's, a fortress unit only have a minor god range upgrade.
i am watching all of your youtube videos really good :) what you could do if you move the excel for example or switch form excel to the game or sth you could make a little cut with a transition - would make the video more fluid :)
Thank you for continuing this series with another great entry! 🤩 I have a question: which of these placements do you think can shift the most dramatically based on certain unique techs or minor and major god choices?
I think slingers can move up to A tier with slings of the sun and ptahs electrum bullets, I think toxotes can be even more oppressive with hades, ares, Apollo and Artemis upgrades and lastly I think chariots might be S tier with bone bow upgrade
What do you think about the upgrades for some archers? For example the slingers have the "Slings of the Sun" what gives hem an extra damage modifier against infantry.
Good video... As a suggestion, the actual DPS is helpful to visualize faster how much actual damage is the unit doing with the multiplier since right now there could be a unit with a 20x multiplier of 0.01 dps per cost and a unit with no multiplier and 0.2 dps and I wouldn't be able to tell the full picture without me looking for the resource cost or the actual damage per hit. As a question, I'm still thinking of this game on a strategy level like I would AoE2... Something I'm more curious than which one is better if you let them roll with random target acquisition and a frontline is how many of any of them would be good enough to mass for hit and run tactic and villager killing like you do crossbows in AoE2 for example. I.E: How many would 1 shot, or 2 volley a villager... How many to deal enough damage to pursuing or focused down infantry/cavalry? How many to feasibly have a age 2 myth unit that started to come at you be gunned down before reaching or pulling back because it will be a free kill? These questions may be interesting for strategy, but also for tactical approaches on micro during an actual fight if you are down/skilled to micro.
I think the big thing with tier lists like this is they're always a bit dependant on matchup and what your opponent is doing. I would absolutely spam slingers in ages 4 Vs a Hades leaning hard into toxotes and gastraphetes, but I probably wouldn't build a single one Vs Thor! Similarly, throwing axemen are pretty much the only response you have to egyptian axemen in age 2, unless you just wanna turtle! Pretty much the only unit I find in a weird spot is the turma. It's a cavalry that counters archers better than contarius, but contarius still counter archers and suck less Vs cav and infantry. Turma have lower cost, but is that enough to separate them out? Also, only one minor god offers bonuses to turma iirc!
Is there a way to pin point what units attack what units from your opener? I know you can double click and redirect the attack but I'm wondering if there's some mechanics you can set up to make it easier. Great vid!
I slightly disagree on the turma. In a army vs army fight instead of a raid It’s meant to be microed with an expendable unit like a murmillo or katapeltes in the front and retreat when the frontline is dead. Peltasts and other foot archers can’t retreat against faster units. It may be a more solid unit in a 1v1 but the turma isn’t forced to take that engagement if a peltast is shooting him. The peltast is forced to engage.
Music: slow, soft, silent - perfect background for video's like this Explanation: very nice + i have two incredibly big concerns + Upgrade cost for every unit + Value of particular unit after upgrades + Value at the end game after all upgrades Without this it might be half work done for vid
@@IamMagicAOM gotcha bro + there might be some math need for example resources value - like for egypt gold value is +17% in early game based on basic income per vill
Hey lots of good information here and your channel is great for learning as a brand new player. The spreadsheets are a great format for all this I'm still trying to learn the units bonuses/armor and how that plays into fights, how can I use that test area or custom map your playing on? looks very helpful in playing out specific battles and counters for things
yep it's great, at the main menu screen, top right there's a drop down, click on editor and have a go! I can do a video on it to teach you guys if you guys want
@@IamMagicAOM alright perfect thanks i’m not sure how many are interested in that but for me it’s super nice and i completely missed it lmao, maybe a quick mention in the next unit tier list video? :)
Noob question: is it ok to rate them in the context of he civ they belong to? For example, the slinger comes out from a building that only costs gold, supported by houses that cost nothing, with upgrades from a building that also had no cost to build, with resources that were deposited in empowered drop sites, meaning that if the slinger were to be as strong as the peltast the civ in question would just be broken.
It's probably not viable to stack all 3 mythic ranged upgrades on Hades, but endgame Gastrophetes under that combined 30% ranged buff is truly a thing of beauty. Anyway, a couple of questions. How would you compare heroic Arcus and heroic Cheiroballista to Godi specifically as ranged anti-myth? And what are your thoughts on Slingers specifically under Sekhmet anti-infantry upgrade, compared to other generalist ranged?
good questions, I haven't actually tried sekhmet sling of the sun upgrade, but a friend of mines (mista) swears by them and says they're really good. I think I'd prefer a hero arcus cause of the 20 range over a Godi, the cheiro probably not so much, it would be insanely expensive.
Come to think of it more i think Turmae should actually beat Peltast and Slingers for best counter archer. You basically do similar DPS per cost as Peltast but you have significantly more hp, albeit at the cost of also being classified cavalry. Yes opposing archers will always get a volley in before turmae hit them but in a full on fight you don't mind that, you want their ranged to hit your turmae actually (pierce armor and good hp). The problem with Peltast and Slinger is that they are slow and Arcus, Cheiros, Chariot archers outrange them. So their ranged can hit your frontline and your anti range has difficulty reaching their backline. Range on a counter archer is only really good if it actually does let you reach their archers. Turmae speed and hp beats out the extra range on peltast for sure. Especially as having turmae gives you chasing power, the moment opponent has toxotes, arcus, throwing axemen or cheiros you can always pick them off on the retreat. Gives you a lot of positioning advantage.
In the video you write that the arcus has 4 speed but that's only in the Redbull patch, for everyone else it's still 3.8. How sure can we be that all changes from the Redbull patch will make it into the main version?
How would Hephaestus affect Gastraphetoros rating? 20% extra damage and x2 vs myth units. Probably not as good as Toxotes still, but somewhat more useful.
Great video. Preview looks good too, what graphic setting are you using? I find that anti alising looks horrible in this game, especially FSR looks very blurry and fog effects are pixilated. Are you playing at 1080 or 4k?
1440p I have my settings covered in another video but for these videos I just maxed out everything and turned fsr on to make things try to look as nice as possible for you guys
Greeks are super powerful because they get all units they need on age 2, while Atlanteans for example, are naked until 3. Maybe they could give them atleast the Cavalry in age 2, since cheiroballista can do as archer for age 2 but they dont get any real cavalry until age 3
Magic = S tier content creator, we would all love some Macro guides? like how to take map control, when to age up, when to go for the second TC etc
Macro depends on civ match up partially aka "it depends"
having army out takes map control, when to age up depends on how aggressive the opponent is, if hes going to attack you and it's not safe to age up, you can't. When to go for 2tc is a matter of can you safely take the 2nd tc with your army to hold off the attack if they do? What if they're taking the 2nd tc? Scout opponent and play accordingly.
@@GoldenSkeeterpppppppppppp
100%
He's incredible! We're so lucky to have him.
Since you can only get a Gastraphetoros in the Mythic Age as Hades (I guess atlantean could technically traitor one but I'm not counting that and neither should anyone else) its "practical" base stats are actually 24 range and an 11x multiplier against buildings due to Hades's passive bonuses. Doubt that moves it on your tier list but it's worth mentioning to the viewers who might not remember that off the top of their head. Similar example when you go to do the infantry list will be the myrmidon always practically having a 1.5x multiplier against buildings tied to it despite that technically not being a part of its "wiki" base stats
Yes, but that also applies to the Toxodes.
@@MetalKing1417 No it doesn't since you can get toxotes with other major gods and before the mythic age. Gastraphetoros will always have 24 range and 11x against buildings "out of the box" so to speak
Can you explain this a little more? Does aging up give hidden bonuses to units? Or are you talking about assuming they got the upgrades from earlier ages?
Been loving the stuff you have been putting out dude. Super helpful and informative
thanks man! :)
Wow fancy editing at the start. Best part is still hearing your unfiltered and unedited commentary. Very authentic feel and I can tell how passionate you are about the game. It’s infectious and I can’t wait to see your channel continue to grow so fast.
Dude you are making some killer content. I could watch these videos everyday. I really enjoy the mix of data analytics and subjective feelings from an experienced player.
I’m sure you have plans for more of these types covering the remaining unit types, and I would love to also see some sort of guide talking about macro specific topics.
As a newer player I have lots of questions about what upgrades to prioritize, and when is it worth it to upgrade units as opposed to just making more units with the resources.
Anyways keep up the great work you’re doing!
thanks man, maybe for the next one i'll change focus and talk about economy macro/upgrades
I liked the chill background music
And personally Hero Arcuses are absolute beasts, with regen you can more or less exchange small amounts of arrow fire and trade on your favour
Also seeing colossi or giants die in a few volleys of hero archers is absolutely hillarious
+1 music
Hero Chieroballista are myth unit shredders
Love the detailed comparison! Hoping there's going to be a comparison for infantry and myth units soon, too!
definitely at some point!
Finally someone who understands the concept of S-tier, and doesn't fill it up with half the units. And very useful to use excel to show actual values compared. Great content.
Minor feedback: I suppose you wanted some numbers to stand out, but for me green is good, and red is bad. So my brain had a bit of an hard time reading the Excel, but not a big deal either. I liked the little epic intro and the chill music.
yeah, I had trouble with the red/green colors too!
Good point !
Great list. Not very opinionated, pretty factual and I love that. All well reasoned and concise. 10/10!
I think arcus also deserves A tier because you can heroize and snipe myth units in need, and chariot archer wants production to mass.
I haven't player the retold yet, but in the original you could really buff your CA with a tech, I think it is from sekhmet or something like that, that gives the unit a huge range making them almost invulnerable.
Gasta 8x vs buildings, but it's peirce damage and TC etc start with 90% Pierce armour. Gasta eventually gets 11x vs buildings bonus but still, it's not as bonkers as you'd think.
Ajax 11x vs Myth units however...
Thank you for all your videos man! Really helpful! And as a video editor I like the changes at the style, makes it more smooth (good intro too). Can't wait to see more!
its interesting how the greeks, that are infamous for no bow traditions and beeing melee fighters got the best ranged units in the game
The Greeks usually recruit archers from Crete.
They did use bows but it is true that they considered them dishonorable. In the mythology Paris was considered one of the best archers in Troy but rarely used the bow in battle because he felt ashamed while using it and all of his brothers used melee weapons and mocked him for a coward when using the bow. That was until his brother was killed by Aquilles, which made him grab his bow for the next battle and kill Aquiles with a famous arrow to the heel. Coincidentally, Paris was also killed, shortly after his victory by a famous greek archer that had arrows covered with the hydra´s poision but I do not remember all the details about it now. And surprise surprise, the nimph that was Paris´s dumped ex girlfriend before meeting Helena was the only one who could save him from the poison. Because of jelousy, the nymph did not help him even when Helena begged her on her knees. Once Paris died he was burned like it is tradition for the greeks. While the bonfire was burning the nymph appeared crying out of nowhere and hurled herself into the fire, turning into dust with her former lover. I got off point but my conclusion is: Do not date nymphs, they crazy.
I love these videos, thank you Magic, you help me out a lot with this one and make me think about what makes a ranged unit and Calvary good, apprciate the the info, you help me love AOM more
Magic you’re a true genius, and you’re bringing my childhood back to life ❤
Worth noting is thrown axemen get +1 range for each upgrade. 10 is just the base range but goes up to 13 (or 14 for skadi).
Same for Turma and Peltas: +1 per upgrade. which gets peltasts to 21 range (more than the chariots and arcus!) and turma up to 15 to match tox.
Versus chariots and tox have their default but it does not increase (except god choice)
Love tier list videos as i enjoy hearing how others think about games. Really looking forward to Myth unit tier list.
Great vid for someone getting back into the game. Background music level was great, and I like the format w/ the Excel comparison.
Gonna binge the other tier list vids now.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Love your content Magic! I would love if you made a tutorial on how to micro properly. I notice you do that so efficiently and effectively in your games, and I never really learned how to do it (played the original game since I was a kid). Would be very helpful for newer players to learn the ropes of micro-ing!
It’s on its way! Not sure if I’ll have time today though but I’m going to try
@@IamMagicAOM can't wait!
I’d be curious how the rankings would change if you factor in minor god technologies, for example Valley of the Kings from Thoth effectively halving the price of Chariot archers by giving you two per train, or Slings of the sun from Sekhmet increasing the slingers use against infantry. (Sorry I can only think of egyptian examples right now, but I know the other civs have upgrades for their archers too, I doubt all are equally impactful though! Valley of the Kings is kinda op.)
I agree. I came to ask the same thing. Specifically, If going Ptah 'Electrum Bullets' into Sekhmet 'Slings of the Sun' as Set (speed boost) I would assume the slinger would out perform the chariot archer in a fight even later in the game. But maybe not.
Yep these techs are game changing and require their own videos imo!
Keep doing unit tier lists! But one of the things your missing is Upgrades! You should also do a tier list of them with classic, heroic, and mythic level upgrades with also their respective gods that boost them even more.
When fully upgraded with everything possible, are they still in the same tier?
I think tox would still be S tier, but yeah upgrades are important but it will be a very long video and I don't have too much time since i'm also working a full time job :( sorry
@IamMagicAOM no preassure man, your doing God's work. You did a lot of what I wanted to know , just one question how do you calculate average dps? Do you test it on a specific unit or building that has 0% hack or pierce and how do you go find median of the dmg per second when accounting of the wind up of the attack; since the turma take a longer time to attack compared to the toxotes. Do you use a minute interval and divide by 60?
@@jairocastillo3674 the game does it for you actually! it you hover over the the attack of a unit in game it will tell you. as for the calculation the DPS (damage per second) is what i use and its basically the damage divided by the attack speed
Appreciate the vids. Would love to see some guide/general gameplan videos for specific gods.
Thanks for another educational video!
This time technologies feel much less obvious to me compared to cavalary techs. So here's an idea for a video: You could test some battle scenarios for ranged units.
Toxotes are very spammable, especially with Hades (+1 range, 10% attack in classical through Ares or Apollo, free balistics). It would be interesting to see:
- how much AOE damage can some units do to counter mass ranged? This is especially important when thinking about how many attacks you need to kill and which upgrades can take the threshold from e.g. 2 to 3 hits. I am thinking thinking especially of Centaur, Manticore, Cyclops and Satyr (with their upgrades) but also Sphinx, Scarab or Draugr
- how effective Artemis' Shafts of Plague divine poison damage is. Does it stack and does it have a noticeable effect against units with decent pierce armor?
- how much of a difference does perfect micro in a static fight (focus fire without overshooting) make compared to not microing? You already showed how abusable not microing Toxotes can be in your last video with Gaia using the Caladria.
Also in regards to other ranged units:
- you showed that Chariots can kite Toxotes indefinitely due to their range and speed. Can they also do this vs. other units such as the Peltast (with Sekhmet's Bone Bow?)
- does Skadi's Huntress' Axe 100% accuracy make any difference for Throwing Axemen, given their short range?
- can Slingers with Sekhmet's Slings of the Sun +0.75 multiplier against infantry trade cost efficiently against e.g. Murmillos, Hoplites or Spearmen (especially Set's Slingers which are cheaper and can get another 15% attack with Ptah's Electrum Bullets)
- Rheia's Orichalcum Mail giving archers 20% hack AND pierce armor sounds super valuable. Leto can even boost that with another 10% pierce armor with Volcanic Forge, making me wonder how Arcus do vs (Hades) Toxotes
You could kite peltast too but it’s harder since the range differential is much smaller, at some point with the upgrades they have the same range and hades can have even more range
From my games huntress axe seems like it makes a good diff in accuracy but I haven’t looked very carefully
According to my friend the Mista he said the slingers with slings of sun are equivalent to a toxotes vs infantry so that’s really good if that’s the case!
Archer vs archer arcus with the rheia upgrade might do very well but I’m always more concerned about how much dps they do rather than how tanky they are!
Thanks for that write up!
One stat that might have been interesting especially at the end with gastraphetoros would be DPS per population since they're a tier 4 unit so would come in as a late game near max pop replacement so cost is less important than pop value.
true! right now the meta most games are not going so late so its usually more relevant to use per cost
You are like the SpiritoftheLaw but for AoM! You do a great job with these videos!
Great video but worth to mention is that with Arcus, it can be made into a hero which boosts it's stats, not sure how much of a difference that make but i'd love to see a heroic Arcus in there as well.
Keep it up man this is the content aom needs, guides would be great too
Gastras are underrated imo, the fact that with upgrades they get bonus dmg against myth makes them effective against everything short of cavalry. Combined with their very high base damage and the inherent bonus from Hades a small cluster of these bois can oneshot most units in the game from a safe distance. Very effective for hit and run at either buildings or other armies as long as you can protect them.
absolutely agree, even after nerfs, they're an insane threat if used well
Great video!
I think it's important to note in what way you're ranking them. These look like the base stats of the units? But they come in at different ages so they would have upgrades that might affect them differently.
Also you're talking about the base line unit as part of an army composition which is fair but might be worth a mention, since minor gods can massively mix up this list imo
Yep I’ll be doing another one soon with minor god techs
Your videos are golden bro, keep them coming
Appreciate it!
Thanks for all the information you're sharing with us in these videos. As for the feedback you asked, the bg music as an idea is not bad, but could be a bit more thematic.
I like the style of the video, quite graphic which is something is still new and exceling with the remake
The heroizing feature of the Arcus and Cheirobalista shouldve been considered. Arcus is a great late game unit, especially with burning pitch. At that point they counter pretty much anything, and they're hard to take out. Expensive, but strong.
Great video. Not competitive, but with Freyr's cheap unit upgrade, burning pitch, and a mass 20-30 mass TAxemen makes them an S tier siege unit. Two volley a fortress. :) Can't wait for a ranged myth unit guide! Just want trolls to get some love.
Considering a roster will have at least 7 human soldier units, I think Throwing Axe Men are a really nice option to have.
Chariot archers are great if you can already comfortably free up apm to micro them.
Personally I really like Toxotes from a game theory pov. It creates a problem for my opponent, and I can counter their solution. If they get chariot archers for example, I can add Peltasts or Gastfracts.
I also like Peltasts because they are really good at their task. You really feel it when you micro them and focus fire ranged units, they get +1 range per upgrade too.
So far I've only been playing Hades tho.
Some of the damage multipliers are really impactful. One might not see it if they ignore the numbers and think of x counters y or "has a bonus", there is a big difference between an 11x bonus and a 0.25% bonus.
Peltasts seems like something that should be nerfed. They are too op in many parameters. In my opinion balance is when each unit has only one parameter by which it prevails it's opponents. Peltasts should have their range decreased to 15 at least or even 12. 18 is too great for throwing weapon. It even doesn't make sense that they can throw their javelin farther than toxots shoot. And after this slingers will have at least one parameter in which they are good - range.
Spirit of the Magic. Keep em coming
Can't wait to see infantry and myth units! I like these vids.
Great video Magic! Since you asked for feedback, personally not a fan of the background music. But at the same time it wouldn't really stop me from watching either way.
thank you! please let me know, i'll be reading all the comments and will adjust according to what you guys want
Can't wait for the infantry guide, really curious about how good is the berserk with all these weird techs
Amazing video
Great video I was already wondering how the ranged units stacked up against one another.
I think after recent buff chariot archers are in pretty good spot: they deal okayish damage to infantry but still not as damaging as other good dedicated archers, compensating for it with speed and range
Would love to see a best units in each pantheon video! Or how you choose to compose your armies
If i remember correctly from AoM EE, Gastraphetes had upgrade from Hephaestus making them better against myth units with range 24
It's like a small siege unit which is kinda balanced between destroying buildings and killing units
Bro, wake up. IamMagic just dropped another tier list
Im really looking for the myth unit tier list (and of course melee units aswell) ! It will be a long one :D ! Probably the last one ?
Thanks for your content :)
Toxote's are going to be what I use to get that hit I used to get from Marines in SC2 (I shouldn't have main-d Protoss).
Loving the new video series!!
As a point of defense for Axemen: Scenario enemy Riders break past the line, Axemen hold better. Range only matters as long as you can hold distance or defeat the enemy before they are in range
Also many tanky myth units as well as stuff like siege towers have good pierce resistance but worse hack resistance (massive difference for siege towers (5% vs 90%))
Can you do a video about best combined units?
For me, a strong combo strategy in the Classical Age involves using Murmillos and Cheiroballistae. Both units can be upgraded to Heroes, with Cheiroballistae dealing triple damage to myth units. Murmillos are versatile melee fighters that become even stronger with the Shark Bite upgrade.
You can also use Caladria, flying healers, to support your army. A combination of Murmillos, Cheiroballistae, and Caladria gives you a powerful and flexible army in the second age.
love the vid, and i think the background music goes well 👍
14:38 can show this part of excel sheet more often? I think its more clear and have more informations.
Greeks in history: Archery is for pansies and lacks the glory our tried and true hoplites amount.
Greeks in AoM: We are Briton Longbowmen reborn
Hahaha
I like the new feel of the video 👍
I can see why would you rate the throwing axemen low, and to be fair, unless my opponent is using strong infantry I wouldn't make them in age 4... But TA do have some specialties, with burning pitch and hack damage, they can also tear into buildings
I cannot wait for the infantry breakdown! I hope to see myrmidons are good (cuz I love them)
It would be awesome if you could do even more and compare how much better a Greek Hades who went with all the minor gods that give archer bonuses is than a normal toxotes! That’s probably a lot more work though, but it’s somewhere you could take the videos next!
The thing about the Arcus is that you can mass it more easy than the chariot archer
My man did a fucking intro to the tier list, nice work
I wish i have seen your videos before.. thanks bro..
Love it, Magic. Keep em coming.
I like how right off the rip I see the Turma I previously asked about in the cav tier list in D tier haha
Hi Magic! Been loving your videos :D
Do you plan on making a Gaia build order guide? I know she isn't very strong right now, but I feel like she might be underrated, if not now maybe with a few buffs, but her minor god selection is quite versatile for an economic god and automaton spam is very interesting against certain civs, I would love to see your spin on playing her
for sure, this weekend i'm going to be practicing a lot of games and getting a feel for where the meta is at, I was a bit busy this week so didn't get many games in
once I feel comfortable with her i'll make a guide for you guys
@@IamMagicAOM thank you! Keep up the good work!
Thx for the video! Throwing axeman getting a 4x multiplier vs buildings which can be usefull in the lategame with burning pitch. They really shred buildings then.
Or not even necessarily in the lategame if Thor is around, since he can get the upgrade at any age.
@@thorveim1174 Yea i thought the same but it still costs 500 wood 300 gold which would kill any age up timings
@@Donar_AoM not necessarily. Thor usually has plenty of dwarves after all so gold is rarely a limiting factor for him as long as you do buy armory upgrades regularly (unless you were raided on gold or assign them to something else, but even then the cheaper dwarves help gathering gold quickly) and wood isnt directly used for an age up anyway. So usually it doesnt really hurt your wallet to get that in the heroic age at least, and id say thats a power boost that is very much worth the investment for the norse.
Hell, if I get it it usually means I can afford to forgo rams and ballistas completely for siege, instead relying solely on axemen for it, which, in the end, may actually be cheaper (i mean, compare that upgrade price to a group of 4 rams, and it doesnt look that expensive to get anymore assuming you already have the axemen as part of your army)
@@thorveim1174 Yea it is worth a try. For age up i mean if you wanna go fast heoric or so you just switch wood gatherers to food so it will delay heoric time but maybe in heoric it could do work
Could be interesting to see a video on what you would like to be buffed and nerfed :)
hey, Magic
I watched and enjoyed every single video you've done
thank you a lot
OI'd to ask and suggest for a tutorial teaching how to properly micro
have a nice day
Working on it, thanks for the kind words !
Your spreadsheet says 4 speed for arcus.
Arcus speed is actually 3.8 (below average) but if you heroize its 4.1. (above average).
all heroized units look to be about .3 speed + 10 hp + 1 damage.
keep up the great work!
They got buffed I think! ( maybe it was the redbull tournament build though, maybe I got it mixed up)
i thought i was good at aom when it first released until i bought retold and started to play ranked, watching all of your videos became aware i am trash hahaha but nice content, you got a viewer for life!
I really liked the old Icon but the new one is great. And nice Intro :D
I got another one coming, just trying some new options for now :D
It's insane how the toxote is already best dps before unique upgrades when hades can get 3 of those with minor gods while chariot's, a fortress unit only have a minor god range upgrade.
i'm happy to see i'm not the only one who think toxotes deserve another nerf
another great video man! question for you - do you have any problems with watching replays? specifically, do you know a way to avoid the desync issue?
unfortunately no, sometimes they work for me and sometimes they oos. I find that if I watch them right away they have a lesser likelihood of desyncing
i am watching all of your youtube videos really good :) what you could do if you move the excel for example or switch form excel to the game or sth you could make a little cut with a transition - would make the video more fluid :)
I’ll try, I’m just not that great at the editing stuff just yet and my computer is having a bit of trouble with it lol
Thank you for continuing this series with another great entry! 🤩 I have a question: which of these placements do you think can shift the most dramatically based on certain unique techs or minor and major god choices?
I think slingers can move up to A tier with slings of the sun and ptahs electrum bullets, I think toxotes can be even more oppressive with hades, ares, Apollo and Artemis upgrades and lastly I think chariots might be S tier with bone bow upgrade
Thanks for your thoughts!
What do you think about the upgrades for some archers? For example the slingers have the "Slings of the Sun" what gives hem an extra damage modifier against infantry.
A lot of these upgrades are game changing and require more time and more videos to talk about!
@@IamMagicAOM Totally understand! If you start with one, you basically need to do everything. And it alot, haha!
Gratefull for all the insight, thanks
We need the Infantery Tierlist today!!
Haha I’ve got to work! I wish I had the time to do one
Good video...
As a suggestion, the actual DPS is helpful to visualize faster how much actual damage is the unit doing with the multiplier since right now there could be a unit with a 20x multiplier of 0.01 dps per cost and a unit with no multiplier and 0.2 dps and I wouldn't be able to tell the full picture without me looking for the resource cost or the actual damage per hit.
As a question, I'm still thinking of this game on a strategy level like I would AoE2... Something I'm more curious than which one is better if you let them roll with random target acquisition and a frontline is how many of any of them would be good enough to mass for hit and run tactic and villager killing like you do crossbows in AoE2 for example. I.E: How many would 1 shot, or 2 volley a villager... How many to deal enough damage to pursuing or focused down infantry/cavalry? How many to feasibly have a age 2 myth unit that started to come at you be gunned down before reaching or pulling back because it will be a free kill? These questions may be interesting for strategy, but also for tactical approaches on micro during an actual fight if you are down/skilled to micro.
great suggestion, thank you, you're right
people also forget, if you have gastrophetes, you ARE playing Hades, with all the bonus' that gives you
I think the big thing with tier lists like this is they're always a bit dependant on matchup and what your opponent is doing. I would absolutely spam slingers in ages 4 Vs a Hades leaning hard into toxotes and gastraphetes, but I probably wouldn't build a single one Vs Thor! Similarly, throwing axemen are pretty much the only response you have to egyptian axemen in age 2, unless you just wanna turtle!
Pretty much the only unit I find in a weird spot is the turma. It's a cavalry that counters archers better than contarius, but contarius still counter archers and suck less Vs cav and infantry. Turma have lower cost, but is that enough to separate them out? Also, only one minor god offers bonuses to turma iirc!
Is there a way to pin point what units attack what units from your opener? I know you can double click and redirect the attack but I'm wondering if there's some mechanics you can set up to make it easier. Great vid!
If you use a move I don’t think you can but you can only do it by right clicking, let me know if that’s what you’re asking
I slightly disagree on the turma. In a army vs army fight instead of a raid It’s meant to be microed with an expendable unit like a murmillo or katapeltes in the front and retreat when the frontline is dead. Peltasts and other foot archers can’t retreat against faster units. It may be a more solid unit in a 1v1 but the turma isn’t forced to take that engagement if a peltast is shooting him. The peltast is forced to engage.
Off topic, but I suspect Chieroballista bonus vs. ships is ingored and has a potencial in maps with shallow water.
Music: slow, soft, silent - perfect background for video's like this
Explanation: very nice + i have two incredibly big concerns
+ Upgrade cost for every unit
+ Value of particular unit after upgrades
+ Value at the end game after all upgrades
Without this it might be half work done for vid
Yeah I need to cover that in another video, didn’t have that much time to go in depth
@@IamMagicAOM gotcha bro + there might be some math need for example resources value - like for egypt gold value is +17% in early game based on basic income per vill
Hey lots of good information here and your channel is great for learning as a brand new player. The spreadsheets are a great format for all this I'm still trying to learn the units bonuses/armor and how that plays into fights, how can I use that test area or custom map your playing on? looks very helpful in playing out specific battles and counters for things
yep it's great, at the main menu screen, top right there's a drop down, click on editor and have a go! I can do a video on it to teach you guys if you guys want
@@IamMagicAOM alright perfect thanks i’m not sure how many are interested in that but for me it’s super nice and i completely missed it lmao, maybe a quick mention in the next unit tier list video? :)
Noob question: is it ok to rate them in the context of he civ they belong to? For example, the slinger comes out from a building that only costs gold, supported by houses that cost nothing, with upgrades from a building that also had no cost to build, with resources that were deposited in empowered drop sites, meaning that if the slinger were to be as strong as the peltast the civ in question would just be broken.
It will get too complicated if we do it that way
It's probably not viable to stack all 3 mythic ranged upgrades on Hades, but endgame Gastrophetes under that combined 30% ranged buff is truly a thing of beauty.
Anyway, a couple of questions. How would you compare heroic Arcus and heroic Cheiroballista to Godi specifically as ranged anti-myth? And what are your thoughts on Slingers specifically under Sekhmet anti-infantry upgrade, compared to other generalist ranged?
good questions, I haven't actually tried sekhmet sling of the sun upgrade, but a friend of mines (mista) swears by them and says they're really good. I think I'd prefer a hero arcus cause of the 20 range over a Godi, the cheiro probably not so much, it would be insanely expensive.
Great info here, thanks. I think the background music is nice but maybe something a bit less melancholic?
Come to think of it more i think Turmae should actually beat Peltast and Slingers for best counter archer. You basically do similar DPS per cost as Peltast but you have significantly more hp, albeit at the cost of also being classified cavalry.
Yes opposing archers will always get a volley in before turmae hit them but in a full on fight you don't mind that, you want their ranged to hit your turmae actually (pierce armor and good hp). The problem with Peltast and Slinger is that they are slow and Arcus, Cheiros, Chariot archers outrange them. So their ranged can hit your frontline and your anti range has difficulty reaching their backline. Range on a counter archer is only really good if it actually does let you reach their archers. Turmae speed and hp beats out the extra range on peltast for sure. Especially as having turmae gives you chasing power, the moment opponent has toxotes, arcus, throwing axemen or cheiros you can always pick them off on the retreat. Gives you a lot of positioning advantage.
Babe, wake up Magic posted another video
A week ago I saw your lobby and entered then I suddenly realized who you were and ran off lol
hahah
loved the video, feel bad for the trapped elephants though ;(
haha sorry :(
Epic intro bro🙀
In the video you write that the arcus has 4 speed but that's only in the Redbull patch, for everyone else it's still 3.8. How sure can we be that all changes from the Redbull patch will make it into the main version?
Pretty sure it will make it in
How would Hephaestus affect Gastraphetoros rating? 20% extra damage and x2 vs myth units. Probably not as good as Toxotes still, but somewhat more useful.
They’d still be A tier imo but yeah it’s a great upgrade
New profile pic goes hard
Nice guide! If you don't pick throwing axes in age 4, do you pick any range units from nords?
I still mix in throwing axemen, it’s not a useless unit but I try to emphasize fire giants myth units jarls and beserks
@@IamMagicAOM thank you for the reply! Very useful information
anther magic video wohoo !
Great video. Preview looks good too, what graphic setting are you using? I find that anti alising looks horrible in this game, especially FSR looks very blurry and fog effects are pixilated. Are you playing at 1080 or 4k?
1440p I have my settings covered in another video but for these videos I just maxed out everything and turned fsr on to make things try to look as nice as possible for you guys
Thank you for the video
Greeks are super powerful because they get all units they need on age 2, while Atlanteans for example, are naked until 3. Maybe they could give them atleast the Cavalry in age 2, since cheiroballista can do as archer for age 2 but they dont get any real cavalry until age 3