"Oh, look at that! These tiny, cute tree hobbits saved my life! How can I ever repay you?" *proceeds to transform cute tree hobbits into genetically engineered slave race*
Yea, the Vorta may have it best in the hierarchy of solids. They're diplomats and educators. And it's easy to delude oneself into believing one is doing a species a favor by guiding its evolution. That, at least, saves the species from random chance. Starfleet would discover a species and carefully and ethically avoid contaminating its development; just see where nature takes it. Gives the species a chance to thrive and live freely, but those same ethics mean they can't save the species from extinction. I'm surprised the Vorta came from an existing species, though. Weren't the Jem'Hadar an all-male race generated from scratch?
@@adeadchannel4129 Which if you think about is just making a slave's chains translucent. Unlike the Jem'Hadar who are physically dependent on the Founders to survive the Vorta are existentially dependent. The Vorta do not physically cease to be without the Founders but the technical immortality, the political power, and their culture is all maintained by the Founders. Without the Founders the Vorta are simply culturally and intellectually stunted creatures so far removed from mortality and self realization that to ever be without it is a paralyzing fear. The Jem'Hadar are motivated with survival. The Vorta are motivated with existing.
You know, I doubt that the actual uplifting of the Vorta was so altruistic. The Founders saw they needed proxies if they were to keep their existence hidden, so they found the proto-Vorta and uplifted them to be their minions and slaves. The story of a proto-Vorta family protecting a Founder is likely just propaganda to further reinforce the Vorta's loyalty to the Founders.
I read a really good piece of fanfiction once that expanded on the Vorta's entry into their role in the Dominion with this precise idea in mind. It was very compelling.
It'll probably be a long shot, presuming that it hasn't been deleted since when you saw it. Or that it was on fanfiction.net and not spacebattles.com or archiveofourown.org.
I think that we should have seen a lot more of that. The Dominion was supposed to be the anti-Federation, another interstellar alliance of species. but one held together not by altruism and mutual benefit but by fear and coercion. Sure the Changelings could be behind it all and act all mysterious and spooky, but the actual soldiers, diplomats, etc. that interacted with the Alpha Quadrant species should have been a multitude of different Gamma Quadrant species, each with their own reason for fearing and obeying the Dominion. Instead of this we got the entire foreign affairs of the Dominion run by the Vorta and Jem'Hadar, two slave races that both interact with the Founders quite often. We hardly ever see any other Gamma Quadrant member of the Dominion aside from the Karrama, and they were only in a few episodes and never set foot in the Alpha Quadrant. Not that the story we got was bad, just was a missed opportunity compared to what they could have done with it.
xxlCortez he played Brunt as well, the FCA agent who takes Quark's possessions away. He's an extremely talented character actor. He's been in every Star Trek series since TNG, playing a total of nine differnt characters (recurring and minor).
kules Rudolph iIardenvich If you like him in movies, he played H.P. Lovecraft in the Necronomincron. I really enjoyed him as the Andorian, he was Andorian.
@@steliokontos3935 Generosity and kindness don’t have to be pure. No one is truly pure, especially the Founders. Even the Borg will turn against their own beliefs if the situation demands it. And getting some Kira is absolutely suck a situation in DS9.
@@MrBoBoTom - "Most" of Star Trek still applies. Regarding DISCO, most of the scenes still occur on closed sets. Yes, it's more action oriented and has a wider scope, but there's a higher ratio of time spent in small rooms and hallways than not. The movies, when measured against all the episodes, spanning all the shows, doesn't come close to the amount of time spent on small sets. PICARD, especially its 2nd season, is.... well, the less said, the better. Still, ratio is still on the side of most of Star Trek taking place in small places.
Jeffrey Combs, with that gentle voice and impish presence, brought some of the most complex and unique characters in science-fiction to life. A legend in his own right, he is as enmeshed in Trek lore and history as William Shatner or Patrick Stewart or any of the others. Gotta love him.
He's really grown on me over time, especially as I grew to *KNOW* his voice patterns, even when he was playing radically different species or characters. I still heard it. ...... Took me a little while to recognize him in his Ferenghi form, though.
It’s a great quote by Odo because as a security officer under the cardassians that sympathized with bajor, he learned that there’s always two sides to every story. While stuff like hate crimes happens to groups seen as different, it’s also possible the changeling was up to no good dominion antics (assuming the story is real and not dominion propaganda).
I do appreciate how the Vorta tries to appreciate life. Weyoun at the Daboe tables, looking at art, drinking poinsoned canar & eating pizza. :) When not blowing things up & making war plans, I'm sure he's an all around nice guy. :)
You blow thing up and make wars so you can access all this wealth allowing you to "looking at art, drinking poinsoned canar & eating pizza". All these thing you take for granted don't come free.
He is what the Founders made him to be. They want to rule the galaxy, so he tries his best to make that happen. If the Founders decided to spread peace and love through the galaxy instead, he'd do his best at making that happen too.
An all around nice guy who before the Federation re-took DS9, so casually suggested eradicating Earth's ENTIRE population to quell any rebellion against a Dominion victory. But yeah, he's a nice guy :P And I suppose that WAS an earlier Weyoun hahah!
IKR? Needs to be from a genuine pizzeria, like Vincent's of Lynbrook, NY (I never go to any of those 'pizza chains' like Dominoes or Pizza Hut) That's what the Promenade needs-A PIZZERIA-A REAL PIZZERIA!
@Cliven Longsight I've been to King Umberto's-It's good but I just don't go up there that often. There's also a Prince Umberto's on Franklin Ave., in Franklin Square-In the Eastern Meat Farms shopping center
I always found this episode and this Weyoun fantastically interesting. It would have been fascinating to have a Weyoun on the side of the Starfleet and a Weyoun on the side of the Founders.
At the end when he sacrificed himself to save Odo is was quite sad. In that moment Odo provided the only comfort he could and played the part of a Founder for him to allow him to die with some sense of peace.
Well, this Weyoun essentially WAS, although loyal to Odo being a founder, He had defected from the dominion. It's strange though, that his loyalty to founders still outweighed his desire to be free, even in spite of the fact he refused to serve the Dominion, but still to the founders.
I love the look in Odo's eyes when he asks what did the Changeling do in the story and Weyoun gave that ready made answer, solids distrust Changelings. It felt like Weyoun was repeating a rehearsed script and Odo ever the investigator was hearing the propaganda.
Weyoun: Vorta scientist are working day and night tirelessly to find a cure Founder: Good, make them document their work, eliminate them, and activate their clones. Weyoun: Founder? Founder: Perhaps a fresh outlook is necessary to speed up the process. Oh yeah Weyoun, the Founders did your species a favor, they really value you.
Fellow Traveler I remember reading in a Trek fanzine about how Jeffrey Coombs auditioned for the role of Cmdr. William Thomas Riker. He was beat out only by Jonathan Frakes. Poor Jeffrey, so close and yet so far.
I honestly wonder what that would look like. I mean, even when Jeffery plays good guys, they tend to be somewhat...quirky. I mean, look at his portrayal of The Question.
It's kinda sad really, they thought he was a great actor, hence why they gave him so many roles. But they just thought he was too short and slimely to be Riker
Imagine how happy Weyoun was to tell Odo about that story, he got to tell one of his 'Gods' about the time they saved his race, like it all all new. He mustve been happy and proud about it
UA-cam Commentary: Can take discussion about science fiction characters and POINTLESSLY make it political What the hell Founders: Martian Space Lobsters from the planet Zog -snort- makes about as much sense... Oh! Sounds like modern day potato people!
@@marcusbullock630 I'm quite certain that the Democrats are not run by shapeshifters nor do they have castes of genetically engineered races to serve them.
it would have been interesting if they revealed later that the Vorta did not hide the changeling but were the ones chasing it and this was their way of getting revenge on their persecutors.
That WOULD be a twist and a half. After all Weyoun states clearly it doesn’t matter who or what he pursers are chasing the changling. It could have well been other Vorta out of fear (and this wanting to kill) desire for food, technology, wealth, who knows?
Sounds like Weyoun would LOVE Ben & Jerry's. After all, the reason behind the mixture of textures in Ben & Jerry's is because Bennet Cohen, the Ben of Ben & Jerry's, had great trouble tasting anything due to his anosmia, so he took to enjoying textures since flavour had become borderline meaningless to him.
I always thought one of the joys of sushi also has to do with the variety of textures you're eating, not simply the flavour, as sometimes it can be a little bland or similar to other types of sushi, but the texture is totally different.
He was defective. As he told Odo. He thought the war was wrong. And even though he still worshipped the Founders. He thought they should live in peace with their galactic neighbors. Not try to concur everything in their path. He felt the Dominion should be like the Federation. So by Dominion standards for the Votra. He was a defective clone.
Jeffrey Combs and René Auberjonois are two of the most underrated actors in the franchise. Seeing these two in a scene together is something else! For those not in the know, Jeffrey Combs is a chameleon who played more characters than any other in Trek - Brunt (FCA!), Commander Shran, two other Ferengi, Tiron, a human in Far Beyond the Stars and an alien in Voyager. The guy is AMAZING.
It's a shame that Weyoun 6 died. I would have liked to have seen him stick around. I wonder how he would have adjusted to life free from the Dominion's influence. I'm assuming he would have chosen to live on the station so he could be near one of his beloved, "gods." What would his life have been like? it's a shame we'll never know. :(
Headless Chicken I can see Odo fighting for the Federation to make an exception for Weyoun to be genetically altered to give him every attribute the founders denied him. I can also see Weyoun serving Odo as his most loyal subordinate for the rest of his life, even founding a whole new religion based on Odo (not the founders, just Odo) in his last years.
"solids have always feared and mistrusted shape-shifters, you know that" Except Odo doesn't know that, because he's CSO of a space station and everyone trusts him.
He's right, but it misses something important: the Vorta were also solids, and in their criticism, the primary culture of the Founders is equally rigid and distrustful of anyone they call "solids". This isn't to say fear and paranoia are not commonplace, and that the Founders didn't have the right to defend themselves from the violent paranoia of other species, but they've moved beyond that and instead assimilate or destroy with equal patronizing disdain.
@@nickmalachai2227 The victims become the victimizers and thus the cycle continues. It only ever ends one of two ways. Either they they successfully dominate others or get torn down and returned to a place of weakness.
Howyaduing The Founders wanted an army with both loyalty and control. Thus they genetically engineered the Jem'Hadar. Loyalty came from the Ketracel-White addiction, and control came from the Vorta.
satireknight never made that link! It’s cool, and I’ve already considered the implications and formalised a hypothesis... The Tosk were also said to be engineered, what if the hunters were part of the dominion? We know there are other races, and it would explain quite a bit. It can’t be that the tosk were proto Jem Hadar like the ape like creatures to the vorta, because like I said the tosk were also engineered...
Until Odo mentioned he sampled the whole menu, I was expecting the rich trope of eating 1 bite of an enormous meal, then discarding the rest, being full. He even did the fancy ass napkin dabbing.
Wish that were possible...But the Founder at the last episode, where Elim Garak shot and killed Weyon 7, she said, "I wish you did not did that. That was the last Weyon clone!" Of course, they could've kept the Weyon template somewhere else...But if it was destroyed during the final assault on Cardassia.....
StryderK There is a Star Trek book about Weyoun being possessed by the pah-wraiths and becomes Kai. He ends up destroying Cardassia and Earth and killed all of his other clones. That'd make an interesting movie. BTW, Garak actually killed Weyoun 8. Weyoun 7 was killed by Worf.
"Sometimes, the world looks perfect, nothing to rearrange..." "Stannndding tallll on the wings of my dreammss" (Odo and Weyoun get stuck going through a revolving door) "It's my life, it's my dream and nothing's gonna stop me nowww...." (as they both walk up from the subway, with Weyoun in a tux and shorts in the Castro district of San Fran.)
+Anthony Lasalle Fitting since biologically, proportionally, he in fact is a teenager. At a minimum they live 200 years, and apparently they might be immortal, which is my belief. I think Odo basically hates the dominion because he feels guilty about having a hand in the occupation. Their empire reminds him of his neutrality in the face of atrocity, which as a keen servant of justice deep down he knows is a form of collaboration.
Also being Odo on DS9 during the war is like being a German immigrant in the West during WWII, you may not be a Nazi but you'll likely be treated the same by some of the indigenous population who don't know you well enough so Odo's angst is pretty understandable. As Garak said "Maligning Constable Odo was one thing; after all he's a changeling. The Klingons don't know him as well as we do."
Somewhat true, because on the other hand, the shapeshifters were accepting of Odo even when he didn't share their agenda, where as the Nazis had no problem cutting their loses. You were either rolling along with the plan, or you were the enemy. Plus, the only people to dismiss Odo because of his species were the Klingons, a people not known for tolerance and sanity. However my memory of DS9 might be a bit vague...
In gratitude for saving one of their own, the Founders turned all Vorta into their genetically-programmed, disposable, cloned slaves. Such generosity and kindness.
It's interesting how entranced Odo was towards that story. I'm more surprised how he didn't pick apart the story though considering it's likely propaganda.
+V Guyver - He wants it to be true - he's hoping it's true - he says it himself. If it is there has to be some 'good' some 'wisdom' some 'kindness' in his people
2Scribble I agree. He desperately wants to accept his people. Hearing something nice about them gives him hope. There is always Three 'Odo's' in Ds9, which is why it throws me off at times. Regular gruff orderly Odo. Love struck Odo. Finally, homesick Odo.
That would actually make sense, the loyalty of the Jem'Hadar is actually not perfectly encoded in their genes which is why they addicted them to the Ketrecel white, maybe a combination of genetic encoding and propaganda to fit is how they control the Vorta.
Huron .Blackheart Would make sense. With the Jem Hedar, they have a religious warrior code to worship the founders. The Vorta simply worship the Founders with a fervor barring a handful.
a lot of people mentioned how weyoun ate with chopsticks and didn't finish the pizza, but nobody is mentioning the fact he ate nothing but a single piece of pepperoni off the pizza, and further was using the chopsticks to stab said pepperoni directly
I love Jeffrey Combs. So many contributions to the nerd/geek group. Star Trek, the Re-Animator, and of course the Question from Justice League Unlimited.
+Justin Heretical FCC yeah you are thinking of Brunt. He played a few more Ferengi characters and not to mention played a breakout character on Enterprise.
It does make me wonder if this actually did go down the way the voorta's mythos described it as. That, in exchange for saving the changeling, they were given this 'honour', and the Founders actually believed they were elevating them. Unfortunately, it was a rather... backhanded? twisted? reward. The Founders look to have a very 'orange and blue' morality.
+Atoll Well, if you must know, the owner of Papa John's eats his with Fork and Knife. Depending on where you go, you will see people eat Pizzas with anything. European Pizzas and Japanese Pizzas are very different from American ones.
+Atoll It was done for comedic effect. Since Vorta eat very little but nuts and berries, they have no need for cutlery, so he's inexperienced in their usage - not to mention that he does not know what food is eaten with which cutlery.
He had no point of reference on how to eat the food, except maybe some background knowledge that eating with your fingers is not an acceptable practice for Human-Federation standards.
V Guyver To be fair the owner of Papa Johns also owns what is largely considered to be the worst pizza chain, and that's saying a lot since pretty much every large pizza chain is considered terrible by anyone who has had a decent pizza.
"Thanks for saving me. You guys will be our slave administrators that we will clone so we can treat each instance of you as disposable." How generous and kind. 😐
Weyoun was also an interesting character, Combs did a great job playing different aspects of the various clones as most of them had different personalities.
DS9 was one of the great series, and both actors in this scene are amazing. I like the fact that you can listen to the entire show rather than watch it, as everything is queued with music, sound and filled with dialogue that explains things and has conversations all at once. It's like a radio show but if you so desired you could watch it as well.
Weyoun gives me HEAVY adorong fan vibes....every time i hear his voice i am expecting him to say "By azura by azura by azura! Its the grand champion! I can't believe its you standing here next to me!"
LOL. I had Black Desert Boss Timer app on the background. The moment Weyoun said "one day a wounded changeling appear in the forest" The word "DARKNESS" sounded through my headphones. It almost gave me a hearth attack, but it was... Appropiate it.
I'm guessing that since the shuttle is a relatively small star trek vessel that it's "hard drive" is also only a fraction of a Starship's. They probably only keep a basic "most popular" list of foods and drinks on file, and dedicate the majority of data storage to navigational charts, and encyclopedia info.for intergalactic hitch hikers to peruse when exploring time and space.
I really doubt it. Runabouts could chart an entire planet, every square inch. That would take a lot of memory. Having a database of recipes probably wouldn't take up that much space. On top of that, the federation database wasn't just stored on a starships computer, it was also in the cloud. So a ship could simply access information remotely if need be. We also see replicators on shuttles, replicate just about anything, like what 7of9 did in an episode where the doctor took over her body. But replication wasn't necessarily perfect. In most cases, foods weren't actually replicated in their true form. They were actually just re-sequenced proteins and carbohydrates that were made to appear/taste like certain foods. More like how there's plant based hamburgers today. Basically, every dish is made up of the SAME basic stuff, with a little coloring here and there, and some artificial flavoring, which makes them even more efficient to store. So you'd have the blueprints for several different materials, and those would all be combined in different ratio's to make pizza, or chicken, with artificial flavoring added cleverly. Not like the artificial flavors of today, where it's all mixed in, but for example, if you have a piece of extra cooked part to a pizza's cheese, the flavoring in that area could be altered to have more of a "burnt" taste.
And yet they are made to be 'poison proof'? Seems an acute sense of taste and smell would be required for that trick, so as to characterize the toxin. A bit contrived...
@@pirobot668beta the poison proof bit is more in immune system than sensory. It's kind of a psychological tactic on the Founders part if you think about it. Which would you prefer to encounter from someone you poison: They can sense the poison and are less inclined to imbibe it, or someone who knocks it back like the reincarnation of Rasputin?
I love how it seems like he's using a couple of plastic chopsticks to experiment with how tableware works. "Yeah, you know I've tried to watch you guys eat, but these damn eyes..."
DS9 is the best trek. Weyoun, Garrak, Gul Dukat, Sisko, Quark. Every character has a history which makes a difference in how they behave in each episode. Just the best trek.
I won't say it's the best Trek, but it definitely had the best characters. When it was good it was great, which is why it's my favorite Trek. It simultaneously calls out the hypocrisy of TNG's claims of rising beyond humanity's flaws while showing that people are still striving to rise above them, as had been the case in TOS. TNG's got complacent with their growth as a people, which is probably the deeper meaning behind Q's visits and tests. "We're human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands, but we can stop it. We can admit that we're killers, but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes. Knowing that we won't kill today." It's as true for TNG as it was for TOS, but only DS9 had the insight to realize it.
Why? Misinterpreting or misreading human culture. Maybe he had read about chopsticks as a human eating utensil and maybe the replicator provided them when it made some Chinese food, and found them interesting. . .so he kept using them when trying other foods.
mjmj779 Weyoun 5 was so goofy and happy-go-lucky whereas Weyoun 6 was kind-hearted and Weyoun 7 and 8 were both business-like. You'd think clones would have similar personalities.
GreenDay1981 Weyoun 5 was kinda frightening in a way because no matter what happened, that smile never left his face. You knew something about him wasn't normal (i.e. genetic encoding). Weyoun 6's emotions were more rational and that was strangely reassuring to me as a kid watching DS9, lol.
+TheaterPup I felt the same. The first Weyoun we had seen, Weyoun 4 was very interesting. He was disinterested/lazy with his duties but still had #5's smile and treachery. #7 was more arrogant and willing to betray his orders and code to protect his rulers interests. #8 far less arrogant and more dense than his predecessors.
A creature that can literally transform into anything has to run away from people and be rescued by small, forest-dwelling, ape-like creatures in their tree hut. ;)
The classics always survive although I imagine there may be some new toppings available like lorpa fruit from deneb 3 or something. Just for the klingons, ghaghk pizza, lol
There are so many things that could have happened differently in this episode. For one, Weyoun could have faked his death or Odo could have shapeshifted himself into Weyoun and pretended to kill himself.
GreenDay1981 Maybe faking his might have worked. but Odo turning himself into Weyoun and pretending to die wouldn't. Weyoun 7 and Damar would wonder where Odo went, and Odo still has a problem mimicking faces, so he couldn't recreate Weyoun perfectly.
+GreenDay1981 Weyoun 6 lacked time. He could have tried for sure, but trying would mean risking a Founder's life while he tried to think. He would never risk it.
I really loved everything about weyuun. The performance.. the dialogue.. the body language.. the story.. the attitude.. that actor did an immaculate job.
We all know Weyoun is a naive weasel but it's interesting to watch Odo's reaction he doesn't take ANY part of the story at face value Kinda proves what effects spending time with the likes of Quark and Garak have on him
Since Changelings don't die of old age, it's possible that the Changeling who was saved by the Vorta is still around. Maybe that Founder genuinely cares for the Vorta and tries to make their lives better. But knowing the Founders, they probably still treat the Vorta more like pets rather than equals.
I always liked to think that the predatory race that the proto-Vorta sheltered the injured Changeling from was the parent race, or template for what would become the Jem'Hadar.
Oooh, that would be an interesting twist. Especially since Weyoun talked about how the proto-Vorta lived in fear of predators - would be a cool twist if they were now the overseers of their former predators!
I loved how Weyoun would one minute smile and act as if he was your best friend....and the next moment stab you in the back because his gods told him too.
I see no people commenting on this, but we don't know the reason why the changeling was being chased by solids. For all we know, they may have been protecting themselves against them. The fact that the Vorta dismisses that detail adds to the whole propagandistic angle.
DS9 managed to be the most atmospheric and expansive Star Trek series, while almost always taking place in limited small sets like this. And with a lower budget than TNG or Voyager
Star Trek Deep Space Nine is a very high quality show. The depth of writing and the character development is surprising. This show impresses at almost any level, sets, costume, production, casting, photography and the especially fine acting.
I don't think the Founders *removed* their taste buds. He said the only thing they enjoyed are "kava nuts and rippaberries" - the diet of their pre-sapient ancestors. I suspect it's more the case that they simply left their sense of taste unaltered. Same with their sense of sight. The Founders see no benefit to things like aesthetics or a rich sense of taste. They increased the proto-Vorta's intelligence because intelligent slaves are more useful than mere animals. But what benefit would it provide the Founders to enhance the Vorta's sense of taste? Or their aesthetic appreciation? So, they left those "useless" aspects unchanged
It is completely likely that the Founders did not alter the Vorta's sense of taste. The only benefit of removing that sense of taste would be so that the Vorta does not get distracted by foods. I suppose that the Founders don't have a sense of taste so they might view it as a blessing to allow the Vorta to be more like the Founders. I don't think either of those possibilities are likely as the Vorta are incredibly loyal and would not allow the sensation of taste to get in the way of their duties and you could just remove their ability to appreciate taste, after all they have eyes and ears but cannot appreciate art or music, and the ability to sense taste is helpful for identifying poison or rotten food or the flavors and textures that other species enjoy or dislike, a trait helpful for diplomacy (one of the Vorta's roles within the Dominion).
"Why were the solids chasing the changeling?" "What does it matter?" That simple exchange reveals so much about their difference of character. Weyoun's unwavering faith in the Founders vs. Odo's uncompromising pursuit of truth and justice.
I still don't understand why they didn't keep Weyoun 6 alive. It would have been interesting to see a Weyoun on the side of the federation and a weyoun on the side of the dominion going against each other.
The Dominion wasn't going to give the Federation that choice. They were set to blow up the runabout with Odo and Weyoun on it if Weyoun didn't activate his self-destruct implant.
*Evil Writer:* We should have him eat it with a fork and knife! People hate that!
*More Evil Writer:* Naw, give him chopsticks!
As if we needed another reason to hate the founders.
Evil Writer: perfect! Now, how do we make this story of forced genetic manipulation and slavery sound like something altruistic and generous?
Chopsticks would be more accurate since over 1/3 of humanity uses them. Namaste. 🙏🏽
@Deryk Rodwell Me too! I dont like getting my hands all greasy. Feels awful. Also, some pizza if it's hot enough is just a mess to eat with hands.
He didn't even use the chopsticks right. He stabbed pieces of pepperoni with them
"Oh, look at that! These tiny, cute tree hobbits saved my life! How can I ever repay you?"
*proceeds to transform cute tree hobbits into genetically engineered slave race*
They gave them power though
Yea, the Vorta may have it best in the hierarchy of solids. They're diplomats and educators.
And it's easy to delude oneself into believing one is doing a species a favor by guiding its evolution. That, at least, saves the species from random chance.
Starfleet would discover a species and carefully and ethically avoid contaminating its development; just see where nature takes it. Gives the species a chance to thrive and live freely, but those same ethics mean they can't save the species from extinction.
I'm surprised the Vorta came from an existing species, though. Weren't the Jem'Hadar an all-male race generated from scratch?
I was thinking they were better off the way they were.
Changelings act like fickle gods who actually forgot where they came from! Odo was unique and honorable. A solid among liquids. 🙃
@@adeadchannel4129 Which if you think about is just making a slave's chains translucent. Unlike the Jem'Hadar who are physically dependent on the Founders to survive the Vorta are existentially dependent. The Vorta do not physically cease to be without the Founders but the technical immortality, the political power, and their culture is all maintained by the Founders. Without the Founders the Vorta are simply culturally and intellectually stunted creatures so far removed from mortality and self realization that to ever be without it is a paralyzing fear.
The Jem'Hadar are motivated with survival. The Vorta are motivated with existing.
I just love the way Odo went from derision, to sarcasm, to mild curiosity, to wide-eyed fascination within seconds. Rene is a master.
rip
And all crystal clear through like 3 inches of latex. Credit where due, there's some completely top shelf acting skill in the STU.
He was a truly fantastic actor and a real gentleman.
2 brilliant actors. Best of the star trek franchise.rip rene auberjonois.
I like that his first thought was, "Well why were they chasing the changeling?". Dude's a cop down to the atom.
You know, I doubt that the actual uplifting of the Vorta was so altruistic. The Founders saw they needed proxies if they were to keep their existence hidden, so they found the proto-Vorta and uplifted them to be their minions and slaves. The story of a proto-Vorta family protecting a Founder is likely just propaganda to further reinforce the Vorta's loyalty to the Founders.
I read a really good piece of fanfiction once that expanded on the Vorta's entry into their role in the Dominion with this precise idea in mind. It was very compelling.
I'm intrigued. Do you know what that fanfiction was named/titled, by any chance?
Selene Darkholme I wish I could remember. It was years ago. Maybe you might be able to find it on Fanfiction.net?
It'll probably be a long shot, presuming that it hasn't been deleted since when you saw it. Or that it was on fanfiction.net and not spacebattles.com or archiveofourown.org.
I think that we should have seen a lot more of that. The Dominion was supposed to be the anti-Federation, another interstellar alliance of species. but one held together not by altruism and mutual benefit but by fear and coercion. Sure the Changelings could be behind it all and act all mysterious and spooky, but the actual soldiers, diplomats, etc. that interacted with the Alpha Quadrant species should have been a multitude of different Gamma Quadrant species, each with their own reason for fearing and obeying the Dominion. Instead of this we got the entire foreign affairs of the Dominion run by the Vorta and Jem'Hadar, two slave races that both interact with the Founders quite often. We hardly ever see any other Gamma Quadrant member of the Dominion aside from the Karrama, and they were only in a few episodes and never set foot in the Alpha Quadrant. Not that the story we got was bad, just was a missed opportunity compared to what they could have done with it.
After all these years, it still pissed me off that he didn't finish that pizza slice.
He is worse then a Vegan Gluten Free loving hippy!!
No, vegans usually finish what's on their plate. They can't afford not to.
I'm sure the actor who played the character finished the pizza after the scene was done. :D
All that gray facepaint might get on the pizza if he really tried to eat it.
It was probably pineapple pizza.
I love the joy on weyoun's face when he realizes that he gets to tell odo his peoples history
Odo himself was visibly fascinated to get some insight into his own people. He wants to think that they can be more than heartless overlords.
Star Trek fans are blessed to have Jeffery Combs.
Humanity is fortunate to have Jeffrey Combs@@Wedgenet
We’re all blessed to have Jeffery Combs. Everyone check out Reanimator and such if you haven’t. He’s a joy.
Whatever Jeffrey Combs plays, he's making it awesome.
xxlCortez he played Brunt as well, the FCA agent who takes Quark's possessions away.
He's an extremely talented character actor. He's been in every Star Trek series since TNG, playing a total of nine differnt characters (recurring and minor).
Yeah, I know, that's why I said. His character was one of the few things I liked about Enterprise.
xxlCortez Don’t forget. He’s Ratchet in TFP and TF: RID.
kules Rudolph iIardenvich
If you like him in movies, he played H.P. Lovecraft in the Necronomincron. I really enjoyed him as the Andorian, he was Andorian.
I really loved him as the FBI agent in The Frighteners.
The proof that the Founders were capable of generosity and kindness WAS Odo.
As long as he's not destroying a colony of 8000 humans to give his past self a shot at hooking up with Major Kira.
@@steliokontos3935
Generosity and kindness don’t have to be pure. No one is truly pure, especially the Founders. Even the Borg will turn against their own beliefs if the situation demands it.
And getting some Kira is absolutely suck a situation in DS9.
I love how even though this show mostly took place in small rooms; the great acting and writing made it seem so much more.
+MrBoBoTom ...well it takes place in space.
That's why they don't scream. No one can hear you in space
Can't the same be said for most of Star Trek?
@@eme.261 Not if it's STD, Picard, or whatever comes next.
Or the TNG movies.
Or the JJ movies.
@@MrBoBoTom - "Most" of Star Trek still applies.
Regarding DISCO, most of the scenes still occur on closed sets. Yes, it's more action oriented and has a wider scope, but there's a higher ratio of time spent in small rooms and hallways than not.
The movies, when measured against all the episodes, spanning all the shows, doesn't come close to the amount of time spent on small sets.
PICARD, especially its 2nd season, is.... well, the less said, the better. Still, ratio is still on the side of most of Star Trek taking place in small places.
Not finishing the pizza is a war crime in its self.
vortexgen1 the biggest war crime is eating pizza with two sticks.
An act of interplanetary War would be serving a pizza that came from Chuck E. Cheese.
Using shops5icks to eat the pizza was the tipping point.
Commander O'Brian: This is like teaching a Vorta to use chopsticks.
Worf: I don't see why a Vorta couldn't... Oh...
I don't know which is the worst crime. Eating pizza with utensils or improper use of chop sticks!
Jeffrey Combs, with that gentle voice and impish presence, brought some of the most complex and unique characters in science-fiction to life. A legend in his own right, he is as enmeshed in Trek lore and history as William Shatner or Patrick Stewart or any of the others. Gotta love him.
He's really grown on me over time, especially as I grew to *KNOW* his voice patterns, even when he was playing radically different species or characters.
I still heard it.
...... Took me a little while to recognize him in his Ferenghi form, though.
@@GoodAvatar I absolutely love him as Shran in ENT.
@@sampletextlensflare yea he was amazing as Shram. I loved the evolution of that character.
@@GoodAvatar on Justice League Unlimted that ran on cartoon network he was the superhero Detective named The Question. Most unmistakable voice talent!
and don't forget most of the H.P. Lovecraft movies.
"Why were the chasing them?"
Gotta love Odo, always the shrewd kappo.
It’s a great quote by Odo because as a security officer under the cardassians that sympathized with bajor, he learned that there’s always two sides to every story. While stuff like hate crimes happens to groups seen as different, it’s also possible the changeling was up to no good dominion antics (assuming the story is real and not dominion propaganda).
I do appreciate how the Vorta tries to appreciate life. Weyoun at the Daboe tables, looking at art, drinking poinsoned canar & eating pizza. :) When not blowing things up & making war plans, I'm sure he's an all around nice guy. :)
yeah, there's just parts of him that make me laugh, like when he's winning at the daboo tables. :)
You blow thing up and make wars so you can access all this wealth allowing you to "looking at art, drinking poinsoned canar & eating pizza".
All these thing you take for granted don't come free.
He is what the Founders made him to be. They want to rule the galaxy, so he tries his best to make that happen. If the Founders decided to spread peace and love through the galaxy instead, he'd do his best at making that happen too.
An all around nice guy who before the Federation re-took DS9, so casually suggested eradicating Earth's ENTIRE population to quell any rebellion against a Dominion victory. But yeah, he's a nice guy :P And I suppose that WAS an earlier Weyoun hahah!
Like others have pointed out, the Vorta are, "programmed," to follow the Founders blindly and to do whatever it takes to please them. :(
Starfleet needs to upgrade their replicator pizza, that looks suspiciously like DiGiorno or a similar frozen supermarket brand.
IKR? Needs to be from a genuine pizzeria, like Vincent's of Lynbrook, NY (I never go to any of those 'pizza chains' like Dominoes or Pizza Hut)
That's what the Promenade needs-A PIZZERIA-A REAL PIZZERIA!
It's not delivery. It's replication.
It's not delivery it's regiornio
Tombstone or worse.
@Cliven Longsight I've been to King Umberto's-It's good but I just don't go up there that often. There's also a Prince Umberto's on Franklin Ave., in Franklin Square-In the Eastern Meat Farms shopping center
I always found this episode and this Weyoun fantastically interesting. It would have been fascinating to have a Weyoun on the side of the Starfleet and a Weyoun on the side of the Founders.
I agree ! And tragically still meeting a sudden end just like the 8 Weyouns.
Star Trek was always bad with introducing new important characters from episodes like this.
It almost happened. Odo had a defective Weyoun side with him but he met with an early demise. I wish they had kept him- more Weyouns the better.
At the end when he sacrificed himself to save Odo is was quite sad. In that moment Odo provided the only comfort he could and played the part of a Founder for him to allow him to die with some sense of peace.
Well, this Weyoun essentially WAS, although loyal to Odo being a founder, He had defected from the dominion. It's strange though, that his loyalty to founders still outweighed his desire to be free, even in spite of the fact he refused to serve the Dominion, but still to the founders.
This was an awesome Weyoun... dude ate pizza with chopstocks, but used them like a knife and fork lol
luckily there was nobody from new york there, or he'd have been a dead man
I love the look in Odo's eyes when he asks what did the Changeling do in the story and Weyoun gave that ready made answer, solids distrust Changelings. It felt like Weyoun was repeating a rehearsed script and Odo ever the investigator was hearing the propaganda.
@J.L.W less of idiot, and more like pity as if quietly saying "you sad pathetic little man."
Solids do distrust changelings though .
@@godking found the changeling 🙄
Weyoun: Vorta scientist are working day and night tirelessly to find a cure
Founder: Good, make them document their work, eliminate them, and activate their clones.
Weyoun: Founder?
Founder: Perhaps a fresh outlook is necessary to speed up the process.
Oh yeah Weyoun, the Founders did your species a favor, they really value you.
It’s a nice curve that mutant-kindness Weyoun is still genetically driven to give his makers the benefit of the doubt
I didn't realize he'd sampled the replicator's whole menu before this, so for a second I was like, "What? A quarter of a single pepperoni is filling?"
You have to love Jeffrey Coombs.
The man played so many of the greats in Star Trek.
Fellow Traveler I remember reading in a Trek fanzine about how Jeffrey Coombs auditioned for the role of Cmdr. William Thomas Riker. He was beat out only by Jonathan Frakes. Poor Jeffrey, so close and yet so far.
I honestly wonder what that would look like. I mean, even when Jeffery plays good guys, they tend to be somewhat...quirky. I mean, look at his portrayal of The Question.
It's kinda sad really, they thought he was a great actor, hence why they gave him so many roles.
But they just thought he was too short and slimely to be Riker
He's wonderful in Transformers: Prime as Ratchet.
Imagine how happy Weyoun was to tell Odo about that story, he got to tell one of his 'Gods' about the time they saved his race, like it all all new. He mustve been happy and proud about it
I suspect that the Vorta were actually the primary resistance against the Founders...and the Founders punished them by turning them into this.
Founders: democrats
Sounds like modern day leftists
UA-cam Commentary: Can take discussion about science fiction characters and POINTLESSLY make it political
What the hell
Founders: Martian Space Lobsters from the planet Zog
-snort-
makes about as much sense...
Oh!
Sounds like modern day potato people!
@@marcusbullock630 I'm quite certain that the Democrats are not run by shapeshifters nor do they have castes of genetically engineered races to serve them.
@@TammoKorsai Black people are engineered and they indeed work for the very people who enslaved their ancestors.
it would have been interesting if they revealed later that the Vorta did not hide the changeling but were the ones chasing it and this was their way of getting revenge on their persecutors.
+Tim Riggins That would detract from the scene. The irony of the matter is that slavery was imposed on the Vorta yet it was considered a reward.
That WOULD be a twist and a half. After all Weyoun states clearly it doesn’t matter who or what he pursers are chasing the changling. It could have well been other Vorta out of fear (and this wanting to kill) desire for food, technology, wealth, who knows?
Sounds like Weyoun would LOVE Ben & Jerry's. After all, the reason behind the mixture of textures in Ben & Jerry's is because Bennet Cohen, the Ben of Ben & Jerry's, had great trouble tasting anything due to his anosmia, so he took to enjoying textures since flavour had become borderline meaningless to him.
I always thought one of the joys of sushi also has to do with the variety of textures you're eating, not simply the flavour, as sometimes it can be a little bland or similar to other types of sushi, but the texture is totally different.
@@MaestroTJS I had never thought of that before. Now I'll have to pay closer attention next time I try it.
explains why most ben n jerrys flavours are ass.
Texture is just as important as taste. You could create an absolutely delicious goopy paste and people still wouldn't enjoy eating it.
@@jasoncarswell7458 I'm inclined to agree but I can't think of any instances of such. Can you give an example?
1:05 hes like a small child telling his father what happened at school. so endearing.
Why did Weyoun 6 have to die? He was lovely.
He was defective. As he told Odo. He thought the war was wrong. And even though he still worshipped the Founders. He thought they should live in peace with their galactic neighbors. Not try to concur everything in their path. He felt the Dominion should be like the Federation. So by Dominion standards for the Votra. He was a defective clone.
It is precisely because he was so lovely that he had to die, because causing us pain is the writer’s job in a tragedy episode.
@@phillipmele8533 I still think it would've caused more pain if he'd been allowed to live though a few episodes first.
@@fatdaddyeddiejr I conquer
@@fatdaddyeddiejr defective is subjective here. Odo implied more than once that he’s not.
Odo always sounded like a cranky old man.
He was a cranky old man.
MrPete8680 He's been through a lot in life. He's a deep, complicated man.
Amar7605 U mean a complicated puddle of goo.
+MrPete8680 He is. Or was. Or going to be. Oh, who the hell knows! :P
+O Slatraigh it's a nice contrast from the actors other more energetic yet humble MASH character.
Jeffrey Combs and René Auberjonois are two of the most underrated actors in the franchise. Seeing these two in a scene together is something else! For those not in the know, Jeffrey Combs is a chameleon who played more characters than any other in Trek - Brunt (FCA!), Commander Shran, two other Ferengi, Tiron, a human in Far Beyond the Stars and an alien in Voyager. The guy is AMAZING.
Only he could play Weyoun.
What?? He's Brunt!!!
Sounds like they were enslaved, and made to like it.
"wow how kind of us to enslave your race!" -Odo
It's a shame that Weyoun 6 died. I would have liked to have seen him stick around. I wonder how he would have adjusted to life free from the Dominion's influence. I'm assuming he would have chosen to live on the station so he could be near one of his beloved, "gods." What would his life have been like?
it's a shame we'll never know. :(
LivanaFaolan
I can picture him tanning on a beach on Riza sampling foods all day long.
Headless Chicken I can see Odo fighting for the Federation to make an exception for Weyoun to be genetically altered to give him every attribute the founders denied him. I can also see Weyoun serving Odo as his most loyal subordinate for the rest of his life, even founding a whole new religion based on Odo (not the founders, just Odo) in his last years.
he'd still die without the implant.
"solids have always feared and mistrusted shape-shifters, you know that"
Except Odo doesn't know that, because he's CSO of a space station and everyone trusts him.
That wasn't *always* the case. Moreover, if he were any good at assuming human form, Odo would be far more feared and distrusted by those he met.
@@InfernosReaper he is good at making human forms, he simply chooses to look like a playdoh Bajoran
@@Shinigami13133 not during the series he wasn't. The best he could do was another founder.
He's right, but it misses something important: the Vorta were also solids, and in their criticism, the primary culture of the Founders is equally rigid and distrustful of anyone they call "solids". This isn't to say fear and paranoia are not commonplace, and that the Founders didn't have the right to defend themselves from the violent paranoia of other species, but they've moved beyond that and instead assimilate or destroy with equal patronizing disdain.
@@nickmalachai2227 The victims become the victimizers and thus the cycle continues.
It only ever ends one of two ways. Either they they successfully dominate others or get torn down and returned to a place of weakness.
The origin of the Vorta is fascinating... like a fairy-tale
No I want to know the origin of the Jem'Hadar
Howyaduing The Founders wanted an army with both loyalty and control. Thus they genetically engineered the Jem'Hadar. Loyalty came from the Ketracel-White addiction, and control came from the Vorta.
+satireknight they also feed off their own internal fluid much like the Jem'Hadar
satireknight never made that link! It’s cool, and I’ve already considered the implications and formalised a hypothesis...
The Tosk were also said to be engineered, what if the hunters were part of the dominion? We know there are other races, and it would explain quite a bit.
It can’t be that the tosk were proto Jem Hadar like the ape like creatures to the vorta, because like I said the tosk were also engineered...
@@jonneexplorer the hunters also had jem'hadar weapons if I remember correctly
I love how much of Odo's emotions are shown through his eyes. Rene was amazing.
He didn't exactly have much else to work with, with that prosthetic on his face.
*eats a tiny sliver of peperoni*
"Well, that was filling"
he ate more than just that
Also, if they subsist on nuts and berries, primarily, then they probably don't have much of a metabolism or appetite
Until Odo mentioned he sampled the whole menu, I was expecting the rich trope of eating 1 bite of an enormous meal, then discarding the rest, being full.
He even did the fancy ass napkin dabbing.
I wish Wayoun could have made it to San Fran. They could have had a spin off. It would be a sit com and he would have wacky adventures every week.
And sampled all kinds of, uh, "textures" at Joseph Siskos Restaurant in New Orleans, I bet. ;)
kuribayashi84 Joseph: Uh, Weyoun, traditionally one does not eat the shell of a lobster.
Wish that were possible...But the Founder at the last episode, where Elim Garak shot and killed Weyon 7, she said, "I wish you did not did that. That was the last Weyon clone!" Of course, they could've kept the Weyon template somewhere else...But if it was destroyed during the final assault on Cardassia.....
StryderK There is a Star Trek book about Weyoun being possessed by the pah-wraiths and becomes Kai. He ends up destroying Cardassia and Earth and killed all of his other clones. That'd make an interesting movie.
BTW, Garak actually killed Weyoun 8. Weyoun 7 was killed by Worf.
"Sometimes, the world looks perfect, nothing to rearrange..."
"Stannndding tallll on the wings of my dreammss" (Odo and Weyoun get stuck going through a revolving door)
"It's my life, it's my dream and nothing's gonna stop me nowww...." (as they both walk up from the subway, with Weyoun in a tux and shorts in the Castro district of San Fran.)
RIP Odo, may you enjoy the great link.
Only a true master of Italian cuisine eats his pizza with a chopstick. Love it.
Good lord Combs and Auberjonois just knocked it outta the park in every scene. Rest in peace Rene Auberjonois, you were a blessing.
Odo more angst than a Teenager.
+Anthony Lasalle
Fitting since biologically, proportionally, he in fact is a teenager. At a minimum they live 200 years, and apparently they might be immortal, which is my belief.
I think Odo basically hates the dominion because he feels guilty about having a hand in the occupation. Their empire reminds him of his neutrality in the face of atrocity, which as a keen servant of justice deep down he knows is a form of collaboration.
yes, they are immortal.
Also being Odo on DS9 during the war is like being a German immigrant in the West during WWII, you may not be a Nazi but you'll likely be treated the same by some of the indigenous population who don't know you well enough so Odo's angst is pretty understandable. As Garak said "Maligning Constable Odo was one thing; after all he's a changeling. The Klingons don't know him as well as we do."
Somewhat true, because on the other hand, the shapeshifters were accepting of Odo even when he didn't share their agenda, where as the Nazis had no problem cutting their loses.
You were either rolling along with the plan, or you were the enemy.
Plus, the only people to dismiss Odo because of his species were the Klingons, a people not known for tolerance and sanity.
However my memory of DS9 might be a bit vague...
In gratitude for saving one of their own, the Founders turned all Vorta into their genetically-programmed, disposable, cloned slaves. Such generosity and kindness.
I wish our God did that. What a rip off! 🤬🤬🤬😡😡😡😡😤😤😤😤
It's interesting how entranced Odo was towards that story. I'm more surprised how he didn't pick apart the story though considering it's likely propaganda.
+V Guyver - He wants it to be true - he's hoping it's true - he says it himself. If it is there has to be some 'good' some 'wisdom' some 'kindness' in his people
2Scribble I agree. He desperately wants to accept his people. Hearing something nice about them gives him hope. There is always Three 'Odo's' in Ds9, which is why it throws me off at times.
Regular gruff orderly Odo.
Love struck Odo.
Finally, homesick Odo.
I always assumed that story Weyoun told Odo was propaganda to instill more obedience than the genetic programming could.
That would actually make sense, the loyalty of the Jem'Hadar is actually not perfectly encoded in their genes which is why they addicted them to the Ketrecel white, maybe a combination of genetic encoding and propaganda to fit is how they control the Vorta.
Huron .Blackheart Would make sense. With the Jem Hedar, they have a religious warrior code to worship the founders. The Vorta simply worship the Founders with a fervor barring a handful.
...including Data's various "feline supplements"
It would be funny if he said that was one of his favorites :)
@@xavierprotocols Weyoun : " They were pleasantly... _moist_ "
a lot of people mentioned how weyoun ate with chopsticks and didn't finish the pizza, but nobody is mentioning the fact he ate nothing but a single piece of pepperoni off the pizza, and further was using the chopsticks to stab said pepperoni directly
I love Jeffrey Combs. So many contributions to the nerd/geek group. Star Trek, the Re-Animator, and of course the Question from Justice League Unlimited.
+gothamcity29 And the scarescrow reboot in Batman TaS! that whispering rasp always gave me chills :)
+gothamcity29 What is the name of the other Furangy(?) he played on DS9? Wasn't it like the IRS guy or some shit like that?
+Justin Heretical FCC yeah you are thinking of Brunt. He played a few more Ferengi characters and not to mention played a breakout character on Enterprise.
V Guyver FCC? Lol, okay. Brunt, yeah, that's the guy. :P~
+gothamcity29 Aaaaaannd Ratchet from Transformers Prime!
I wish we got an actual Weyoun defector to join the federation side permanently in the series.
I think the reason he was trying everything on the menu was because he knew he had no chance of escaping alive.
It does make me wonder if this actually did go down the way the voorta's mythos described it as.
That, in exchange for saving the changeling, they were given this 'honour', and the Founders actually believed they were elevating them.
Unfortunately, it was a rather... backhanded? twisted? reward.
The Founders look to have a very 'orange and blue' morality.
Pizza with chopsticks....wah!?!?
+Atoll Well, if you must know, the owner of Papa John's eats his with Fork and Knife. Depending on where you go, you will see people eat Pizzas with anything. European Pizzas and Japanese Pizzas are very different from American ones.
+Atoll It was done for comedic effect. Since Vorta eat very little but nuts and berries, they have no need for cutlery, so he's inexperienced in their usage - not to mention that he does not know what food is eaten with which cutlery.
He had no point of reference on how to eat the food, except maybe some background knowledge that eating with your fingers is not an acceptable practice for Human-Federation standards.
V Guyver To be fair the owner of Papa Johns also owns what is largely considered to be the worst pizza chain, and that's saying a lot since pretty much every large pizza chain is considered terrible by anyone who has had a decent pizza.
They were derived from space squirrels, what do you expect?
The fact he ate the pizza like that just proves how evil Weyoun is.
"Thanks for saving me. You guys will be our slave administrators that we will clone so we can treat each instance of you as disposable." How generous and kind. 😐
Weyoun’s story sounds biblical.
The Founders are gods who offer their worshippers great power and resources.
Weyoun was also an interesting character, Combs did a great job playing different aspects of the various clones as most of them had different personalities.
DS9 was one of the great series, and both actors in this scene are amazing. I like the fact that you can listen to the entire show rather than watch it, as everything is queued with music, sound and filled with dialogue that explains things and has conversations all at once. It's like a radio show but if you so desired you could watch it as well.
Actors that had to come 4 hours early and leave 2 hours late to put and remove their alien make up cry in the corner.
Weyoun gives me HEAVY adorong fan vibes....every time i hear his voice i am expecting him to say
"By azura by azura by azura! Its the grand champion! I can't believe its you standing here next to me!"
Jeffrey Combs seriously needs to get a role in one of the new shows. He's so good in everything he does.
It's sad they didn't give him an alien to play in Picard Season 3.
If you've not seen that, it's the only good season of the show. But a great season.
I enjoy his (mostly) annual turn as Agimus.
LOL. I had Black Desert Boss Timer app on the background. The moment Weyoun said "one day a wounded changeling appear in the forest" The word "DARKNESS" sounded through my headphones. It almost gave me a hearth attack, but it was... Appropiate it.
jesus this creature is so sad :'(
I'm guessing that since the shuttle is a relatively small star trek vessel that it's "hard drive" is also only a fraction of a Starship's. They probably only keep a basic "most popular" list of foods and drinks on file, and dedicate the majority of data storage to navigational charts, and encyclopedia info.for intergalactic hitch hikers to peruse when exploring time and space.
DEFkon001 Garak also pointed out in "In Purgatory's Shadow" that the Runabout's selection of food and drinks isn't very diverse.
+FekLeyrTarg's Videos I wonder how many terabytes it takes to replicate one food item. It has to be incredibly complex and take a lot of memory.
I really doubt it. Runabouts could chart an entire planet, every square inch. That would take a lot of memory. Having a database of recipes probably wouldn't take up that much space. On top of that, the federation database wasn't just stored on a starships computer, it was also in the cloud. So a ship could simply access information remotely if need be. We also see replicators on shuttles, replicate just about anything, like what 7of9 did in an episode where the doctor took over her body.
But replication wasn't necessarily perfect. In most cases, foods weren't actually replicated in their true form. They were actually just re-sequenced proteins and carbohydrates that were made to appear/taste like certain foods. More like how there's plant based hamburgers today. Basically, every dish is made up of the SAME basic stuff, with a little coloring here and there, and some artificial flavoring, which makes them even more efficient to store. So you'd have the blueprints for several different materials, and those would all be combined in different ratio's to make pizza, or chicken, with artificial flavoring added cleverly. Not like the artificial flavors of today, where it's all mixed in, but for example, if you have a piece of extra cooked part to a pizza's cheese, the flavoring in that area could be altered to have more of a "burnt" taste.
OMG this might be the cutest thing I've ever seen in Star Trek. 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍. Kawaii Wey-chan!!
I've always liked the idea that the Vorta are just dark space elves
Shout out to a character so good they retconed in the whole cloning idea to bring him back 😎
Cloning and enslaving an entire spezies. How generous.
it means thier sense of smell is also non-existent, since the smell is involved in tasting different flavors
And yet they are made to be 'poison proof'?
Seems an acute sense of taste and smell would be required for that trick, so as to characterize the toxin.
A bit contrived...
@@pirobot668beta the poison proof bit is more in immune system than sensory. It's kind of a psychological tactic on the Founders part if you think about it. Which would you prefer to encounter from someone you poison: They can sense the poison and are less inclined to imbibe it, or someone who knocks it back like the reincarnation of Rasputin?
I love how it seems like he's using a couple of plastic chopsticks to experiment with how tableware works.
"Yeah, you know I've tried to watch you guys eat, but these damn eyes..."
DS9 is the best trek. Weyoun, Garrak, Gul Dukat, Sisko, Quark. Every character has a history which makes a difference in how they behave in each episode. Just the best trek.
I won't say it's the best Trek, but it definitely had the best characters. When it was good it was great, which is why it's my favorite Trek. It simultaneously calls out the hypocrisy of TNG's claims of rising beyond humanity's flaws while showing that people are still striving to rise above them, as had been the case in TOS. TNG's got complacent with their growth as a people, which is probably the deeper meaning behind Q's visits and tests.
"We're human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands, but we can stop it. We can admit that we're killers, but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes. Knowing that we won't kill today."
It's as true for TNG as it was for TOS, but only DS9 had the insight to realize it.
The Founders: We were violating the prime directive when you ancestors still lived in caves.
I never knew it was pizza I've always been wondering all these years lol. It look liked some futuristic alien sliced carrot.
He was tasting everything from the replicator, according to his words, so maybe Pizza was just the last on the list.
Why? Misinterpreting or misreading human culture. Maybe he had read about chopsticks as a human eating utensil and maybe the replicator provided them when it made some Chinese food, and found them interesting. . .so he kept using them when trying other foods.
Never knew the dude playing Weyoun here (Jeffrey Combes) was actually Herbert West from "Re-animator"
Favorite Weyoun was Weyoun 5. wish he would've stayed around longer
mjmj779 Weyoun 5 was so goofy and happy-go-lucky whereas Weyoun 6 was kind-hearted and Weyoun 7 and 8 were both business-like. You'd think clones would have similar personalities.
GreenDay1981 Weyoun 5 was kinda frightening in a way because no matter what happened, that smile never left his face. You knew something about him wasn't normal (i.e. genetic encoding). Weyoun 6's emotions were more rational and that was strangely reassuring to me as a kid watching DS9, lol.
+TheaterPup I felt the same.
The first Weyoun we had seen, Weyoun 4 was very interesting. He was disinterested/lazy with his duties but still had #5's smile and treachery.
#7 was more arrogant and willing to betray his orders and code to protect his rulers interests.
#8 far less arrogant and more dense than his predecessors.
Considering how quickly they went through Weyouns, isn't the number a little low? Like, shouldn't it have been Weyoun 10,658 or something?
They probably tweak the DNA with every clone, trying to get rid of the "error" that resulted in the previous one's demise.
Founders: We have created the Vorta
Odo: You ruined a perfectly good ape, look at it, it’s got sadism
And treachery.
A creature that can literally transform into anything has to run away from people and be rescued by small, forest-dwelling, ape-like creatures in their tree hut. ;)
Maybe they had tools to help spot and persecute changlings
Umm sure Ewoks beat the empire on Endor.....
@@douglasmcfarland9040 They had some help
I like to think that’s how Jeffery Combs eats pizza.
I'm glad Pizza made it to the what...24th Century? Gives me hope for the future.
The classics always survive although I imagine there may be some new toppings available like lorpa fruit from deneb 3 or something. Just for the klingons, ghaghk pizza, lol
This Weyoun guy emits Adoring Fan energy.
There are so many things that could have happened differently in this episode. For one, Weyoun could have faked his death or Odo could have shapeshifted himself into Weyoun and pretended to kill himself.
GreenDay1981 Yes, and the Jem'Hadar would've blasted the runabout to pieces anyway, so that wouldn't work.
Foebane72 Not necessarily. Remember, when Weyoun 6 activated his implant, Weyoun 7 ordered the Jem Hadar to stop attacking.
GreenDay1981 Yeah when I showed my friend this episode, his first reaction was, "Oh come on, he could be faking it!" Lol
GreenDay1981 Maybe faking his might have worked. but Odo turning himself into Weyoun and pretending to die wouldn't. Weyoun 7 and Damar would wonder where Odo went, and Odo still has a problem mimicking faces, so he couldn't recreate Weyoun perfectly.
+GreenDay1981 Weyoun 6 lacked time. He could have tried for sure, but trying would mean risking a Founder's life while he tried to think. He would never risk it.
I really loved everything about weyuun. The performance.. the dialogue.. the body language.. the story.. the attitude.. that actor did an immaculate job.
We all know Weyoun is a naive weasel but it's interesting to watch Odo's reaction he doesn't take ANY part of the story at face value Kinda proves what effects spending time with the likes of Quark and Garak have on him
Since Changelings don't die of old age, it's possible that the Changeling who was saved by the Vorta is still around. Maybe that Founder genuinely cares for the Vorta and tries to make their lives better. But knowing the Founders, they probably still treat the Vorta more like pets rather than equals.
I always liked to think that the predatory race that the proto-Vorta sheltered the injured Changeling from was the parent race, or template for what would become the Jem'Hadar.
Oooh, that would be an interesting twist. Especially since Weyoun talked about how the proto-Vorta lived in fear of predators - would be a cool twist if they were now the overseers of their former predators!
They went from being ape like creatures to toadies, what an improvement!!
Jeffery Combs was a good actor in the B movie Re-animator from 1985
I loved how Weyoun would one minute smile and act as if he was your best friend....and the next moment stab you in the back because his gods told him too.
How he describes primitive Vorta? Tarsiers come o mind.. :
I see no people commenting on this, but we don't know the reason why the changeling was being chased by solids. For all we know, they may have been protecting themselves against them. The fact that the Vorta dismisses that detail adds to the whole propagandistic angle.
just realized, the actor playing weyoun also played captain shran in enterprise (the andorian)
And Brunt! FCA.
DS9 managed to be the most atmospheric and expansive Star Trek series, while almost always taking place in limited small sets like this. And with a lower budget than TNG or Voyager
Voyager was AWFUL compared to DS9
the shapeshifter will always tell you he is persecuted, but will NEVER tell you why. Sound familar?
Very familiar...
Weyoun goes to show that villainy and humility can coincide after all.
So...the Vorta are basically Oompah Loompahs?
Star Trek Deep Space Nine is a very high quality show. The depth of writing and the character development is surprising. This show impresses at almost any level, sets, costume, production, casting, photography and the especially fine acting.
Because you've helped me, I'll do you a favor in return!
_I'll remove your taste buds!_ ;D
I don't think the Founders *removed* their taste buds. He said the only thing they enjoyed are "kava nuts and rippaberries" - the diet of their pre-sapient ancestors. I suspect it's more the case that they simply left their sense of taste unaltered. Same with their sense of sight. The Founders see no benefit to things like aesthetics or a rich sense of taste. They increased the proto-Vorta's intelligence because intelligent slaves are more useful than mere animals. But what benefit would it provide the Founders to enhance the Vorta's sense of taste? Or their aesthetic appreciation? So, they left those "useless" aspects unchanged
It is completely likely that the Founders did not alter the Vorta's sense of taste. The only benefit of removing that sense of taste would be so that the Vorta does not get distracted by foods. I suppose that the Founders don't have a sense of taste so they might view it as a blessing to allow the Vorta to be more like the Founders. I don't think either of those possibilities are likely as the Vorta are incredibly loyal and would not allow the sensation of taste to get in the way of their duties and you could just remove their ability to appreciate taste, after all they have eyes and ears but cannot appreciate art or music, and the ability to sense taste is helpful for identifying poison or rotten food or the flavors and textures that other species enjoy or dislike, a trait helpful for diplomacy (one of the Vorta's roles within the Dominion).
"Why were the solids chasing the changeling?"
"What does it matter?"
That simple exchange reveals so much about their difference of character. Weyoun's unwavering faith in the Founders vs. Odo's uncompromising pursuit of truth and justice.
RIP Odo!
Just love these scenes: some of DS9s best, and yet it's just Weyoun and the Constable talking.
It's all undoubtedly a lie but I love the religious excitement in Weyoun as he tells the story.
True, the story doesn't even make sense but Weyoun needs to believe it.
@@genmaicha.lapsang the story makes sense to me.
The Vorta changed from 'Apes' to bureaucrats. I'm not sure if thats a step forward or backward
Jeffrey Combs as Rob Lowe
Replicator can create just about anything. He chose a microwave pizza.
I still don't understand why they didn't keep Weyoun 6 alive. It would have been interesting to see a Weyoun on the side of the federation and a weyoun on the side of the dominion going against each other.
The Dominion wasn't going to give the Federation that choice. They were set to blow up the runabout with Odo and Weyoun on it if Weyoun didn't activate his self-destruct implant.
The Founders are the most evil species that has ever been on the show. Worse than the Borg even.
I think the Terans come close. But the founders are much more manipulative.