In fairness to Ice King: They made his obsession with kidnapping princesses... Really tragic, with hindsight. If memory serves, it's what he called his girlfriend, pre-madness, and it's what the scraps of his mind translated into Ice King. Some fragment of him is still desperately clinging to his "Princess".
To be fair, we only learn this after the Ice King was revealed to be clinically insane and he stopped the whole kidnapping thing and just "chilled out" When Finn and Jake kinda became his buddies after the whole lich stuff, Ice King didn't feel lonely anymore and thus... just chilled. Even in sequel series where he's Simon we see he's still a broken charater who still isn't sure of his place in the world. But slowly starting to get into it.... Simon just never catches a break and is always forced to move on...
I'd say it's one of the best portrayals of clingy romantics in fiction, because it really gets to the heart of why people tend to act like that. They get obsessed with an image of romance, sometimes not even fully understanding what romance is, and are desperate to find it before they die. For Ice King, it was a previous romance that he couldn't get back. For other people, it's just the nebulous idea of romance in general. So they're able to, not justify his actions, but explain them, and let us like him as a character in spite of them. I'll always respect them for managing to do a redemption arc for a character as lost as the Ice King, because that's really had to make believable.
@@kotlolish That's wrong because we learn about Ice King's backstory in "Holly Jolly Secrets" but he only really reformed to the point of not capturing princesses due to lonliness two seasons later in "The Party's Over Isla De Senorita". I'm not counting him backsliding when Patience St Pim asked him to kidnap PB Phoebe and Slime princess in "Elemental" cause that was more peer pressure and Patience's own agenda.
Nothing wrong with rapidly aging. Once you hit 500, you get magic powers! Also I now realize Chowder should get a complete Bluray box set. I am serious.
Johnny Bravo is golden, all things considered. Horndog, yes, but is actually quite chill, handles rejection well, is actually not that bad a guy behind the swinger attitude, guy's a cinnamon bun at times... You want Bravo done wrong, you go over to Family Guy.
Yes, I think the main reason Johnny Bravo works (for the most part) is that the story never treats him like he’s in the right when he’s goading girls. The jokes are mostly at his expense, but even more important than that, they’re actually funny slapstick jokes. And like you said, Johnny is normally a good dude that tries to do right at the end of the day. He’s just extremely overzealous and stupid when it comes to flirting.
Johnny Bravo got a few girls who were quite weird too; an antelope chick and a werewolf lady and Vilma from Scooby-Doo in the show bumpers. He was never offended that an animal woman was into him more slightly confused that she existed as were all the viewers.
Oh yeah Jonny got hurt to Saturn but somehow Quagmire doesn't do time in prison Is not like any of them are presented under good lighting, but still...
Back when Sarcastic chorus’ video first came out, I watched it and, having not seen chowder at the time, blindly believed “Oh yeah, this is bad I guess.” Then, more recently, I watched Magicmush’s video. Still having not seen chowder, I saw his points about how SC cut out scenes that went against his point and thought “huh, seems his video doesn’t hold as much weight as I thought.” Now, watching this video and hearing about how the jokes with Panini actually were repetitive, the conclusion I have come to is I really need to get around to watching chowder.
@Hamantha he has a lot of bad takes but it's kinda funny in his last helluva boss video when he said he wants to enjoy the show again so he's quitting making videos cause he made his own bed on that one 😂 if your job is to complain about everything a show does, it's only natural you're not gonna enjoy it as much as others he got the views so he can't really complain
Believe it or not, I actually got the main point of your video. Which is take everything seriously, if it was made with the intention to not be disposable trash. If the creators cared, so should you. But of course do not force actual IRL realism or DEEP LORE into shows that are not supposed to have that. So take cartoons seriously, but "seriously" in the right way.
I'd say the the most concise summary is "take the work as seriously as the creators did" If it's throwaway for a paycheck, it's no worth much headache. But whether it's a drama, comedy, romance, mystery, anything, if the creator made it to be good and not as an obligation, then it will have something to engage with and should be held to that level.
taking shows seriously imo means thinking about creator intent and how well said intent was executed, so in the case of chowder analysing its absurdist humour is taking it seriously/
Panini's crush on Chowder started out being a cute simple childhood crush. When the show changed staff and direction, Panini's crush was flanderized into being more physical and abusive.
I don't have much related to the video to say, just wanted to say that I appreciate content like this. It's gotta be a nightmare to make thoughtful videos about media that isn't taken that seriously by the general population while constantly having to deal with past failures, blunders that people wouldn't shut up about because you're a punching bag on the Internet! You have my respect Mr. Enter!
Ice king gets a pass because its later contextualized as him trying to fill the void that is betty in his heart, id say it led to character development and was more seen as "senile old man" than "genuinely wanting to get with these women"
Yea he just doesn't want to hurt the princesses (and that time he gave up pursuing pb when she deaged to underage girl.) he simply a mad man who only goal is find the one to help him move on from love of his life disappearing from him. Though he does some dickish things time to time but we know he isn't in control. He is mentally unstable
The best way to describe this ship is that it’s essentially the Sonic X version of SonAmy but on crack, and unlike Amy, there is no good version of Panini
So what I'm getting is sarcastic chords took a chowder ship way too seriously, then magic mush took the guy who took the ship way too serious way too serious, and now Mr enter is taking magic mush video response way too serious. God I love the internet as long as I got something playing in the background as I work I don't care about any of this.
I don't think Katara and Sokka should count as a "competent girl, idiot boy" trope, since both Katara and Sokka have their moments of holding the idiot box and being the smart competent one. Sokka was just a butt monkey a lot during especially season 1 (thought I'd argue he gets less and less of that as the series goes).
Sokka's Butt Monkey status seemed to primarily come from trying to play a role he wasn't suited for (fighting Zuko head on, chauvinism with the Kyoshi Warriors, Leader insistence leading them into a Fire Nation ambush) and thus getting himself into trouble to be humbled, while his success come from when he breaks that haughty pattern (going to the village instead of fighting Jet at the Dam like Aang and Katara did). While he's still the butt of a few jokes, the outright-humiliating stuff slows down a lot when he knows his strong suits as the strategy guy instead of the tough guy. All this to say I also don't think these two QUITE count for the dynamic because they're not static characters the way a lot of Episodic-Comedy characters are meant to me (and even in shows like Danny Phantom or Kim Possible the Status Quo changes and continuity don't tend to extend to dramatic characterization changes).
@@munromister777 To be fair, Sonka did get his character development. Something that doesn't really happen to a lot of the men in the "competent girl, idiot boy" trope.
I'd like to add that even in Season 1, there were a notable number of episodes where the situation got worse than it needed to be because of Katara not listening to Sokka. Examples include the water scroll episode and Jet's first appearance.
"Sophisticated meta discourse about discourse about discourse maybe" I find this to be the best part of the video because it's sums up several issues with a lot of internet content anymore.
John is going full-on into his maturity phase -- after nearly a dozen years being a reviewer, he's seen it all, suffered more than most internet peoples (for stuff that both was and wasn't his fault), learned his lessons evidently, and is trying to do his job more professionally in a world gone stupid at both extremes.
@@summerjonz 1. What mental illness are you talking about? 2. Unless he’s harming anyone I think stuff involving his mental health shouldn’t be our business unless he wants it to be our business and what he does relating to it is his choice not ours
@@AmirysMewen Possibly a combination of Bipolar Disorder and Intermittent Explosive Disorder which he's always furiously refused to undergo treatment for.
I usually gobbled up ANY female character I could find. Plus, Panini being a pink rabbit was also a plus. One thing I canNOT forgive is being an unapologetic JERK and being treated as having made up for it despite not putting an effort in at all (unless you're a classic Disney villain or going for those vibes), hence why my personal least favorite of this wonderful cast is the nowhere-near wonderful Gorgonzola. If Greenblatt wanted Chowder and Panini's relationship to develop despite the episodic nature of the show, he could've developed Gorgonzola PROPERLY.
Yeah, turned me away for the same reason I lost interest in that one squirrel brother show. The constant presence of a character who does crappy things but never gets punished for them.
you know, as someone who's cpr trained, it's really not as romantic to fake needing it as one might think. if you can somehow last 30 chest compressions, each 2+ inches deep, without giving the ruse up, you'll be rewarded with the person you desire plugging your nose, forming a complete seal around your mouth with theirs, and exhaling *hard*. you'd be lucky to walk away without a broken rib or two that being said, i think it might be funny to see what would happen if someone in fiction pretended to need cpr only to receive a realistic portrayal of it.
I definitely needed a video on this topic, and as someone that has trusted you and been a long time viewer, your vision on this topic is much more impactful than the other youtubers that clearly talk about it for clout. You actually care about the topic, medium and the show a lot more, meanwhile the others use it for views. No one is wrong and all that, but I personally needed a wake up call in this topic because I need the self reflection myself, and I am glad that you boil it down to "It's complicated, but thank goodness this is fiction and not reality where it's much easier to stomach"
37:35 The three pillars of a mature approach to art: 1: There is no distinction between 'high' and 'low' art. 2: There _is_ a distinction between 'good' and 'bad' art. 3: There is nothing wrong with liking 'bad' art or disliking 'good' art, because how one feels about a work of art has as much - if not more - to do with the person's own experiences than a qualitative assessment of the art.
>no distinction between good and bad art You just insulted every good artist who actually tried. Thank you, really cool. And smart. You are really smart.
You know, Mr. Enter’s reason on why he doesn’t ship Chowder x Panini is also the same reason why I don’t ship Timmy x Tootie or Timmy x Trixie from Fairly Oddparents.
Same with me and Cody x Sierra or Cody x Gwen from Total Drama. ...Y'know, it never really occurred to me until now that Cody and Timmy have the exact same love troubles, where they're being constantly pursued by someone they have no interest in, but then they go and do that exact same thing to someone else
To be fair to tootie it's been shown a few times that when she drops the stalker attitude she DOES genuinely care about Timmy Channel chasers was a great example of this
People who put Tootie on the same level as Panini or others are scummie to me. She's clearly an abused girl. That's her plot. Not the stalking jokes that make up 1% of her screentime.
@@ELRIFL I think it's down to flanderization again. In early seasons, Tootie was mostly very outspoken with her crush, but didn't really foist herself on Timmy (who actually did more to retaliate like throwing Water Balloons at her), which made it easier to believe in things like the Crimson Chin toy episode where he sympathizes with her situation being his-without-Fairies. It's also made clear he doesn't instantly come around on her but is a bit less defensive by gifting the toy to her. Channel Chasers she also has genuine reason to be concerned, crush or not, that someone her sister babysits suddenly disappeared presumably from the same treatment she gets at home. Later seasons are where it gets bad because she turns more to just wanting Timmy rather than wanting Timmy to like her back, so the jokes become "haha stalker character gets grabby" in things like the 3D-Glasses episode. As usual, Flanderization saw the antics but lost the parts that made it endearing for its original style.
I've seen all or almost all of MagicMush's videos myself. When watching through that Chowder video, I was put off by it and was left thinking "Did this really warrant a 40 minute video?" and I didn't end up finishing the video. With this video, the 18:00 section absolutely convinced me that MagicMush is wrong. His argument he was making was that "They're children", and yet the show acts the same way when it is with adults. Framing is extremely important in media. With almost every joke, there is one subject that's painted as rational and another subject that's painted as the butt of the joke. With Master Roshi, it is Roshi himself who is treated as dumb for the joke. Same with Johnny Bravo. But with Pannini and Chowder, Chowder himself is treated as the joke with his reactions to Pannini. No matter what the roles are, it's always the boy whose framed as the joke.
It doesn't really act the same with adults. The kids, while treated for comedy, are kind of treated as their actions being a part of their immaturity and will grow out of it at some point. In fact, I think Panini's "problematic" moments are a result of her immaturity and letting her selfish feelings get the best of her, despite being shown to wanting Chowder to be happy. The future stuff is part of a joke, as well. Also, no, it's not always the boy treated as the joke. In both the first season and the others, Panini is treated as the joke. As the one not understanding what she's doing or not caring enough. She is prominently made as an example of someone taking their affection for someone too far. Sure, Chowder is treated as a joke for not understanding Panini, but Panini is also treated as a joke for not taking no for an answer and going too far with it, especially in the other seasons.
Let’s not forget that in a general sense, Sarcastic Chorus was right about Panini being annoying and creepy, and that her and Chowder’s romantic development should’ve been done better if they were to get together. Thanks, Flanders.
@@darkestccino5405 the element that ultimately peeved me was when mush comment seccion went: "ofc they would only aim than children's shows for these analyisis if they did on shows for adults they would call out on their bs" And this wasnt aimed only at sarcastic chorus's videos but to many other "pretentious" essays. Funny since in the example of pretentious he went for the "funnsies/beating the dead horse" episode 7 of the copaganda essay series. With all the other essays being aimed at live actions for well... erm... Adults. You can argue that it was overblown cheap low hanging fruit on skip part. (Specially when the issue was this show has are not too diferent "aura" wise than chipchilla, except more transparent and earnest (not on a badway btw)) But yeah its a good case of "actually didnt watch the content creator that much lol"
32:26 -33:44 I was not expecting you to mention MisAnthro Pony/Zaid Magenta/Diaz Station in a video of yours but I got a good laugh out of that. Thank You John! Yet he keeps justifying his behavior and simplifying it to "mean words" all because he keeps insulting people for simply disagreeing with his opinions on Disney's Star Wars and other stuff. This is what led him to getting backlash and led him to doing what he did with his burner accounts on his detractors (especially Cartoonshi).
MagicMush’s video always irked me for feeling hypocritical with “taking media too seriously”. It goes into an entire tangent about shipping culture but decides that wanting to analyze shows like Chowder in a serious light is weird. Makes total sense.
I mean I kind of agree with the idea it’s presenting (I think too many video essays are trying too hard to grasp straws) but with the instance of the ship, it feels too dismissive at like whats actually happening. Tbf the UA-camr he is critiquing is also is hypocritical for not finding the Kanker Sisters also problematic
Also no one's talking about that weird jab where he said the only dudes he's known to be into shipping were autistic and then did this whole "of course" thing when one of Sarcastic Chorus' community posts said something like he might be. Kinda outta pocket imo, and not really relevant to his points.
I think Panini would’ve worked better as Chowders rival. Sort of like how Endive is Mung’s rival. Make her a sort of popular and arrogant. But smarter version of chowder to be a foil to him.
i feel like gorgonzola also fits that role, but then they never really used him in that way very much, he mostly just was the squidward of the show who had bad things happen to him.
@@Geomaster97 Uff...that just makes no sense to have done so. She really should have just been a foil considering she works for Mung's competitor, Endive, as her apprentice. Making her the love interest just...kinda ruins her. And the show treated it like it was the cutest damn thing in the world. I've had garbage-soup in wheelbarrows that looked and smelled more appealing. X.X
Idk, I feel like it would have been too repetitive if Chowder and Panini had the same dynamic as Mung and Endive. And it's more ironic to have the rival's apprentice actually like him instead.
I think you misunderstood MagicMush’s point. He is saying that people are looking too deep and analyzing comedic cartoons in the wrong way. You can seriously critique/analyze the jokes in a cartoon without looking too deep into the themes that are presented as jokes with dumb humor. I feel whenever you show other cartoons that have serious themes in this video you’re missing the point the most, it’s not the same type of show as Bojack Horseman or Avatar. I like your overall analysis mostly though.
"it's fine if the girl is being the weird one" basically for many if not all times a one sided romance is not seen as creepy Isabella from Phineas and Ferb. Hey arnold helga. Etc. All pink funny enough too. Then you got the kanker sisters who are straight abusers but like today that's still a joke people think is funny
Isabella should not be lumped into this category, she is a much healthier form of one sided romance as the crux isn't that she is clingy and can't take no, it's that she never asks. Same with Helga. Both are pining from a distance, don't lump them with Panini who's a stalker.
@gavros9636 have you seen hey Arnold? Helda does the same thing as Panini in a few moments and even gets asked why she's there. Isabella has an obsession too and only gives up when Phineas doesn't show one ounce of reciprocating her feelings but it's still bad especially since her friends even call her out on it in world showing she is obsessed since they even see it
The Kanker Sisters are the neighborhood bullies basically. I enjoyed their own episode where they try to find the ship in the bottle Ed unknowingly stole while sleepwalking again. I do find them funny still, especially when they get their taste of their own medicine when the Eds do reverse psychology on them even when it doesn't last long in the end.
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I do not recall Isabella pushing boundaries or not taking 'no' for an answer.
@@ivanbluecool Isabella never really does anything to push boundaries or make Phineas visibly uncomfortable, because the joke is that she doesn't come on strong and he's too dense to see her as more than a friend. She's also still a positive friend and presence in their friend circle, so her primary role isn't the one-sided crush anyway. The jokes are more at her expense with Phineas not seeing a sign vs Chowder or Timmy being distressed by the crushing-girl's attention, which is also the crux of the fan-preferred finale which is about addressing their chemistry years after. Helga I also just think is a very different case because Hey Arnold isn't a wackier comedy and any time her crush is treated in earnest they bring it down to more genuine actions (like the Christmas episode where she does it JUST to make him happy, not for his thanks or adulation).
Pretty good video but ngl I feel a bit weird hearing at the start Enter mentioning to keep in mind they wouldn’t be into shipping as an aroace guy. You know as an ace guy who falls under the aro spectrum and is actually into shipping from a story perspective. Probably a me thing tho yeah actually ppl should normalize that there is reason to like romance plots in a story without needing to want it for yourself irl. Same way you wouldn’t want to die but can appreciate a death in a fictional story.
19:40 At the same time I do think them getting together in the end *is supposed to be comedic.* And I like to imagine they found a way to make it work, set boundaries and everything, but that might be thinking about it too much.
I feel like it was at least supposed to be absurd with things like the number of babies and kid Chowder walking on screen to say "no, I refuse," whether or not the joke landed as such.
The only thing I'll say regarding Panini vs. The Kankers is Panini gets worse/Flanderized in her advances on Chowder as the show goes on while The Kankers remain consistent in their advances. Also, while The Kankers have their obsessive crushes on The Eds like Panini has for Chowder, there are Episodes where they have other interests/character traits beyond The Eds, like in The Valentine's Special Marie gets character development beyond just her love of Edd when she gets jealous of May falling in love with him.
not only that but the kankers were clearly supposed to be the antagonists, and their obsession was meant to be creepy, and to be fair it was also used for comedic effect which i get can rub some people the wrong way, but you were never meant to find it endearing, except maybe in the valentines special and even then that's a stretch, meanwhile panini ends up marrying chowder in the end, and it just seems like you were supposed to have found her antics cute in some way.
Steven Universe is a show about lesbian space rocks fighting other lesbian space rocks trying to hollow out the earth. It also has some of the best romantic plots in animation. Shows can be conceptually silly but handle themselves seriously and do it well.
34:18 - I'd argue it was CC West's "Mabel is Terrible" video that sparked the Mabel hatred discourse since his video went into more depth with a lot of the Mabel criticims, and yet his video was incredibly bad faith with moments he took too seriously, didn't pay attention and was just incredibly bad faith as a whole.... Also CC West turned out to be a child predator.
@@M0b1us_118 Chowdah... Sweet heart... dear boy... I got killed in Vietnam, because you and your friend Schnitzel wanted to be a couple of ANTI-WAR HIPPIES!
I like MagicMush for the most part, but I really did hate how much he ragged on people for reviewing and analyzing cartoons like he didnt just make a 30 minute video on a video talking about a cartoon
I'm gonna be honest, I turned off the Magic Mush video like 5 minutes in because the video essays he was labeling as "pretentious" were raising red flags.
To be fair it does apply to some Video Essays, he shows a Clip from In Praise of Shadows Conservative Horror Movies Video and alot of that was just moral Grandstanding
Happy New Year Enter. I’m just realizing I’ve been watching your channel for 10 years. I first came across this channel in early 2015 when I was a freshman in high school. Anyway, good video. Chowder is one show I wish I watched more of as a kid because it is very funny, even if I don’t like Panini’s character. Chowder and Phineas and Ferb are like The Office of kids cartoons. They were both pretty well liked during their run, but exploded in popularity well after the end of their runs. You could also put Invader Zim in that category, which has gained a fairly recent cult following
MAP Zaid Magenta is STILL around? He should realize he turns into an indignant psycho while analyzing media. He’s a prime candidate for a conservatorship. He’s a hazard to himself and others.
When I was a teenager a girl teased, flirted with me, and asked me if I had a girlfriend despite the fact she had a boyfriend. When I was an adult a woman sent me a secret admirers card for Valentine's today despite having a boyfriend. When I was in university a woman left me for her ex boyfriend 2 days after saying yes to going out with them. Some women just thinks men are toys that they can just take in and out of the toy chest.
I unfortunately also went through what Chowder went through. But I am just aromantic. I believe women should be held to the same standards as men in regards to unwanted advances. Saying that it doesn't happen as often invertedly prevents us from doing that.
I’ve been a fan of Magic Mush’s other content but the most recent one just kinda confused me more than anything and I also thought it was ironic. Some of his points felt like they didn’t have a purpose in this debate that- as you pointed out- him participating in automatically kinda destroys the “don’t take this seriously” argument. This is probably one of my favorite videos of yours. I can tell you’ve really matured. This was a really well thought out discussion.
hot take: i think MagicMush's "it's a kids cartoon" argument dismisses the point of the original video.. regardless of if it was a good or bad point to begin with.. there's plenty of valid point you can make against Chorus' video, but that onr just ain't it.. Dan Schneider shows are kid shows too, doesn't mean his portrayal of romance isn't problematic.. that said, Chowder is not Victorious, so real arguments can and should be made without shielding behind its demographic are media artform.. i don't always like Mr Enter, but at least you attempted to add nuance to this conversation, and addressed this point.. i hope you read my comment
My issue with the "it's a cartoon" argument in general is that it ignores the fact that animation is a medium for telling any story. Hell, I grew up with the anime version of this where in my country, anime is treated as something for kids despite the obvious fact that there're animations out there which portray serious issues. Such as Gundam. Or RWBY.
@@AnimeArchaeologist literally.. it's disrespectful to the artists who worked on it, and the writers who spent time making sure every joke is deliberate and meaningful.. but it gets worse, because there's people who even go as far as to use "it's a show" as an argument (yes, they'll even include live action shows, adult shows, maybe even movies) and it's like, then what's the point of media analysis if you can't analyse anything that's just a show? am i supposed to analyze the news or something? no thanks, i hate politics lol
@@12DAMDO Worse - you and I are both get told to "touch grass" whenever someone like you and I decided to analyze the media. My background is anime (as shown by my username) and the amount of people who got mad at me for watching it over the years? That's a lot. It's one thing if it's online, but then it gets worse when it goes into the real world. One of the few places that haven't been given the "it's just a TV show" treatment would be reality TV. Shows like 90 Day Fiancé and Dance Moms? People get to talk about it and no one gets mad at the whole thing happening.
@@AnimeArchaeologist Oh "it's just a show" or 'it's just a cartoon." When questioning unrealistic logic, that's the only time I think that argument is valid. Bob the Tomato is not real. But when it comes to just criticizing shows in general, then yeah I think the argument is disrespectful. Oh just using that excuse as a way of quietly telling you to shut up and kill all discussion.
I have fond memories of watching "Chowder" on Cartoon Network back in the day. Interesting how Greenblatt went on to do Nickelodeon's "Harvey Beaks", which is a very different kind of show. Whereas "Chowder" is very zany and wacky, "Harvey Beaks" is more low-key and down-to-earth. Hard to say which show I like more.
Having a somewhat incompetent or even dimwitted girl character occasionally popped up back then, like Chelsea from Thats So Raven was the quickest example that came to mind 🤔.
I feel like those characters only show up if there is another girl who would be the smart straight man to them. Lindsey and Heather from TDI, Starfire and Raven, Ty Lee and Azula. The only girl character that comes to mind without another girl counter part is DeeDee from Dexter's Lab
@@ShadowRohanX And even in the case of the latter two duos, Starfire and Ty Lee were ditzy, but they weren't stupid or prone to bungling things anymore than their peers (Ty Lee in the beach episode makes it clear she can read behavior or mockery whether or not she reacts to it).
Also, despite Enter not finding the Panini stuff in those second and third season episodes funny and hating that one episode, I actually find all those Panini moments funny, and the joke was obviously made on her. The show doesn't take the romance and character stuff seriously, so I wasn't upset over it. I respect Mr. Enter's opinions, but I both disagree with him, agree with Magic Mush, and I don't find Panini problematic at all. I even liked her when she became "flanderized."
I've been weirdly consuming Chowder clips for the past several days and all of a sudden Mr. Enter comes out with this video centred on Chowder. Spooky.
TLDR internet people take comedy cartoons too seriously. Like if it's comedy show like Gravity Falls or Star vs where they have serious moments intentionally and often, then yes you can apply real world serious logic, but if it's Ed Edd n Eddy and Chowder, you're barking up the wrong tree for applying an analytic lens.
As a girl I always found Panini annoying at worst and funny at best, I don't think it's bad though, because she help show me how a little girl SHOULDN'T treat boys. I think it helps to show that her advances and jealousy doesn't work and that she is oblivious. I don't think she needed to be punished more because the point was pretty straightforward, he was scared of her which is the most hurtful thing if you like someone. It was dramatic irony I think. I believe it's very important to be able to realize characters can be exaggerated a lot too, I had an issue where I would judge cartoon characters like people and it made most shows unwatchable. I got out of that, but I think it is common for people to fall into that which could lead to shipping being taken so seriously. I really don't think that is healthy because I have had friend who would make something really abusive romantic because they took shipping as real life instead of separating them. It was stuff like getting hurt to see someone and they seemed to really think it was "cute and romantic" and not "messed up, but still enjoyable as a story and as a couple." I think there is something in here about being able to enjoy something without actually thinking it's okay in real life and those need to be disconnected more often. Great video though, I remember watching Sarcastic Chorus and being put off by the video Mush talked about, really cool to see this chain.
I hope Mr. Enter goes for a more broad approach at the end of the year. Nickorama was not a terrible idea, but the execution lacked due to trying to cover the entire show in one episode, and doing it for over a dozen shows. What I always thought would have been better would be to do initial thoughts on the first like 3 episodes of shows he didn't have history with, and more expansive discussion on the start of shows he knows well
Funny enough, that reminds me of Nostalgia Critic's really old "Raiders of the Story Arc" idea he did for a few cartoons, analyzing their pilot/multi-part intros to see what impression they give and how they set up the show. It can be a good approach for shows with serialization that are too big to cover in one video of that scale: "does this seem like something you'd want to get into?" as a question to answer
Okay I might've checked out around the bit before 32:20 but wasn't Mush's point that Sarcastic Chorus was omitting punchlines? Were those clips all from the Sarcastic Chorus video, or were you going at some other point? Then again I at least haven't seen the Sarcastic Chorus video recently, so like, whatever.
I remember there was another pink creature in Ms. Foster House for Imaginary Friends like in Chowder, only there she was treat by others like straight up yandere villain 😅
Here's the bit I don't get about "Being Too Critical About Kids Shows": It's adults taking it seriously to criticise for the benefit of parents, and/or the show-makers. Why make it stop? Why stop the demand in making things better?
I'm so glad to get this analysis from a fellow asexual. Not the one end of the spectrum that says it was an amoral creative decision and that Panini is a straight up rapper with 1 p, or from the other end of the spectrum that just writes off her negative character traits entirely.
I like your balanced opinion on this, not fully agreeing with either side and saying that both have a point. I would like to see more videos like this and look forward to you doing so. On to my opinion on Panini. I found her to be funny (even in ”a farie to remember” however didn’t find her plight to be sympathetic and I was laughing because of her reactions), more of a comedic over exaggeration of how kids with a crush would act. I don’t hate her and think that she mostly worked. However, like you said, I do understand why her action would rub viewers the wrong way as that aspect of her character probably got overplayed and overtook her for the worse. That fact that she still end up with him is understandably off-putting to some as it feels like its rewarding her for her behavior to him and that’s not ok. I wish that her and chowder's relationship was better but this would definitely mean her liking him would’ve have to have been toned down a bit so as to make it cute and likeable. On to how I feel about the situation that caused you to make this video. In general, I think that saying “don’t take a show seriously” is worse than taking a show seriously. While I definitely think that over analyzation/criticism of media can be an issue (look how all the video saying how bad the star war sequel films are if you want prove of that)I find that at worse they are just talking about something that rubbed them the wrong way and it’s understandable that they would feel that way as we all have some trope that does that to us. The ones that are saying “don’t take a show seriously” could be seen as kind of trying to invalidate those feelings. This is not ok as it shuts down the conversations that needs to be had in order to understand the other side.. In addition, the saying also runs of the risk of saying that children’s media should be mindless filler that donest go beyond what it could be. I’m not saying that it’s intended point but I don’t think we should ignore that.
31:37 Also its so odd how mush dismissed the realm of films for ALL people just cuz' its actually suitable for children. I know its a bizarro tangent but .... that aint how we got to the "animation genre" fiasco on the first place? "Oh its a animation so even if its made to apeal all ages (cuz adult animation doesnt exist) its was made for kids, its a genre aimed at kids"
17:14 if mr. enter thinks THIS about panini, i wonder what would he think about marinette from miraculous ladybug, who is probably WORSE than Panini AT HER WORST 21:01 i think this is more about "the romance jokes fit the tone of the rest of the story and its content and intention?" after all, rumiko takahashi's ranma 1/2 has the characters sometimes do worse than panini, but at least it is consistent with everyone acting like a sociopathic idiot in a setting that clearly operates on borderline cartoon logic. and managed to make it funny. and sadly chowder doesn't manage to land the romance jokes well at all
It shouldn’t tbh While I don’t know much about sarcastic chorus magic mush doesn’t seem to be the kind of guy to start internet beef over a petty reason as criticism
As someone who is also AroAce, i usually, emphasis on USUALLY find romance stories with one obsseive and the other either doesnt care or doesnt know to be really uncomfortable. The only real exception is Dipper and Wendy because the handle it really well
I think a big part of it for Dipper/Wendy is that Dipper is able to act relatively normal around her, so he doesn't come across as too blatant nor Wendy oblivious to red flags or anything. Additionally, episodes up to addressing it in "The Bunker" do show Dipper's attraction isn't shallow (he and Wendy get along before and after as genuine friends and he clearly admires more about her than her looks or a ??? that some shows go with), so even if it can't work out, it's a relatable spot for either people who have been there with a crush or people who enjoy Wendy's character enough to empathize with what Dipper's attracted to. I think this is another point to it: one-sided romance stories rarely have the romance or attraction as a characteristic so much as a running gag, in that it's there for the story or jokes more than to add to the characters themselves.
7:03 "you are not supposed to take it seriously" I sometimes have complicated feelings about this sentiment. SURE. Applying real world logic to a story (take it seriously) is a fantastic way for worldbuilding and think throughly how the setting of a show works (look at dungeon meshi). BUT THEN some people in the audience take it TOO seriously, and want hard real world logic and things to operate in a certain way, because they think real life works that way when no. Things in real life can work in other ways. Heck, sometimes writers have to tone down things from real life, because, if they told the story exactly as it happened, people would think it is "too unrealistic". "Reality is stranger than fiction" is a phrase for a reason. OR to quote Grant Morrison: “Adults...struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know how Superman can possibly fly, or how Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious even to the smallest child: because it's not real.” "Kids understand that real crabs don't sing like the ones in The Little Mermaid. But you give an adult fiction, and the adult starts asking really fucking dumb questions like `how does superman fly? How do those eyebeams work? Who pumps the batmobile's tires?' it's a fucking made-up story, you idiot! Nobody pumps the tires!" (Mr. Enter talks about this sentiment at 39:19) AND I personally think "why would you want realism in a fictional story?" SURE Realism CAN complement a story (look at DR.STONE), but I think a story should focus more on following its own self-imposed inner logic rather than try to be 100% realistic. OTHERWISE it fels like the story hurts itself to adhere to what the author think is reality even if it goes against what was established in the story's own universe AND TO TALK ABOUT "take a story seriously" in terms of how the creators and audiences react to it... I think it should be about putting effort (in when talking about a creator "taking it seriously"). If the creators don't take something seriously, they don't care about doing something of quality. That's one of the reasons why power Rangers (Super) Megaforce ended up being what it was. DESPITE being the 20th anniversary of the show, its creators thought "why put effort? our only audience are 5 year olds" AND "the audience taking it seriously" should depend on what the target audience AND the intention of the story is. AFTER ALL, if the story's intention is to be funny, it would be really weird that audience wants the the story to be suddenly about drama. HWOEVER THe show CAN be about drama if only for some episodes, to make the character face a conflict, and come out stronger from it and show them victoriously achieve a happy ending (that's basically what super sentai and precure do). HOWEVER, it has to be a drama that's consistent with the show's intentions, topics, and theme (for example, look at wonderful precure's and pokemon sun and moon's episodes about an old pet/animal die from old age) HOWEVER, the audience can still "take it seriously" by analizing if the story accomplishes its intended reaction , inthis case: to be funny. And very critical about if it manages to be funny or not
In fairness to Ice King: They made his obsession with kidnapping princesses... Really tragic, with hindsight. If memory serves, it's what he called his girlfriend, pre-madness, and it's what the scraps of his mind translated into Ice King. Some fragment of him is still desperately clinging to his "Princess".
To be fair, we only learn this after the Ice King was revealed to be clinically insane and he stopped the whole kidnapping thing and just "chilled out"
When Finn and Jake kinda became his buddies after the whole lich stuff, Ice King didn't feel lonely anymore and thus... just chilled.
Even in sequel series where he's Simon we see he's still a broken charater who still isn't sure of his place in the world. But slowly starting to get into it....
Simon just never catches a break and is always forced to move on...
I'd say it's one of the best portrayals of clingy romantics in fiction, because it really gets to the heart of why people tend to act like that. They get obsessed with an image of romance, sometimes not even fully understanding what romance is, and are desperate to find it before they die. For Ice King, it was a previous romance that he couldn't get back. For other people, it's just the nebulous idea of romance in general.
So they're able to, not justify his actions, but explain them, and let us like him as a character in spite of them. I'll always respect them for managing to do a redemption arc for a character as lost as the Ice King, because that's really had to make believable.
Yeah, magic fuelled dementia, also he can't fly when he doesn't have his hair. Plus his binge eating, he's a rounded villain.
@@kotlolish That's wrong because we learn about Ice King's backstory in "Holly Jolly Secrets" but he only really reformed to the point of not capturing princesses due to lonliness two seasons later in "The Party's Over Isla De Senorita". I'm not counting him backsliding when Patience St Pim asked him to kidnap PB Phoebe and Slime princess in "Elemental" cause that was more peer pressure and Patience's own agenda.
I don't think Enter's fully watched all of Adventure Time yet though to get Ice King/Simon's full tragedy.
"Chowder started in 2007..."
Me: Ahh, nice.
"18 years ago."
Me: **Rapidly ages.**
Pretty soon the financial crisis will be old enough to graduate high school normally
fr, and the Boomerang Bumper was the icing on the cake. Chowder's not old enough to be on there, dammit 😭
Man, I was only 8 when Chowder premiered and I was there watching
I thought it was chowder from 2006 monster house lol
Nothing wrong with rapidly aging. Once you hit 500, you get magic powers!
Also I now realize Chowder should get a complete Bluray box set. I am serious.
Johnny Bravo is golden, all things considered. Horndog, yes, but is actually quite chill, handles rejection well, is actually not that bad a guy behind the swinger attitude, guy's a cinnamon bun at times... You want Bravo done wrong, you go over to Family Guy.
My father liked Johnny Bravo.
Yes, I think the main reason Johnny Bravo works (for the most part) is that the story never treats him like he’s in the right when he’s goading girls. The jokes are mostly at his expense, but even more important than that, they’re actually funny slapstick jokes. And like you said, Johnny is normally a good dude that tries to do right at the end of the day. He’s just extremely overzealous and stupid when it comes to flirting.
Brian Griffin and Quagmire both are literally Johnny Bravo done wrong, so you are correct.
Johnny Bravo got a few girls who were quite weird too; an antelope chick and a werewolf lady and Vilma from Scooby-Doo in the show bumpers. He was never offended that an animal woman was into him more slightly confused that she existed as were all the viewers.
Oh yeah
Jonny got hurt to Saturn but somehow Quagmire doesn't do time in prison
Is not like any of them are presented under good lighting, but still...
"Look what you have done! Now all of the animators are gonna have to draw all this fire!"
And on top of that, you've ruined the Soufflé.
I always loved when chowder broke the 4th wall.
@LB-vb3jq My favorite was when they ran out of money, so it showed the voice actors in the recording booth.
@@rossjohnstone4689Hahah! I loved that little joke. They ran out of money so no more animation, just the voice actors
I really cannot imagine how long it actually took just to draw it. It had to take at least 5 hours
Chowder’s catchphrase is literally
“I’M NOT YOUR BOYFRIEND!!!!”
There was even a song about it.
Yes, we watched the video...
Back when Sarcastic chorus’ video first came out, I watched it and, having not seen chowder at the time, blindly believed “Oh yeah, this is bad I guess.”
Then, more recently, I watched Magicmush’s video. Still having not seen chowder, I saw his points about how SC cut out scenes that went against his point and thought “huh, seems his video doesn’t hold as much weight as I thought.”
Now, watching this video and hearing about how the jokes with Panini actually were repetitive, the conclusion I have come to is I really need to get around to watching chowder.
This is super-relatable.
Chowder is just funny
not too serious
but yeah it could get repetitive
It's in between
Good takeaway, also Sarchastic Chorus is not as bad as others make him out to be
@Hamantha he has a lot of bad takes
but it's kinda funny in his last helluva boss video when he said he wants to enjoy the show again so he's quitting making videos
cause he made his own bed on that one 😂
if your job is to complain about everything a show does, it's only natural you're not gonna enjoy it as much as others
he got the views so he can't really complain
Believe it or not, I actually got the main point of your video. Which is take everything seriously, if it was made with the intention to not be disposable trash. If the creators cared, so should you. But of course do not force actual IRL realism or DEEP LORE into shows that are not supposed to have that. So take cartoons seriously, but "seriously" in the right way.
Something along the lines of "Take cartoons seriously, but remember its still mainly silly entertainment"
I'd say the the most concise summary is "take the work as seriously as the creators did"
If it's throwaway for a paycheck, it's no worth much headache. But whether it's a drama, comedy, romance, mystery, anything, if the creator made it to be good and not as an obligation, then it will have something to engage with and should be held to that level.
taking shows seriously imo means thinking about creator intent and how well said intent was executed, so in the case of chowder analysing its absurdist humour is taking it seriously/
Panini's crush on Chowder started out being a cute simple childhood crush. When the show changed staff and direction, Panini's crush was flanderized into being more physical and abusive.
One thing I will say: The fire breath in that one clip had me chuckling.
Thank you for your summary of the video we just watched. :3
@@MartenFerret I haven’t watched the whole video before making this comment 🫤
@@MartenFerret They're giving context as to why Panini's character changed over the course of the series.
@@RiqMoney817 Too be fair you made a good simple informative comment. So it's pretty good.
I don't have much related to the video to say, just wanted to say that I appreciate content like this. It's gotta be a nightmare to make thoughtful videos about media that isn't taken that seriously by the general population while constantly having to deal with past failures, blunders that people wouldn't shut up about because you're a punching bag on the Internet! You have my respect Mr. Enter!
Glad to hear Enter is a magic mush fan
I'm surprised to see Enter cover this. Very on the pulse.
I didn't expect.
*THE CHOWDER AND PANINI SITUATION IS CRAZY*
MoistCr1tikal moment
Ice king gets a pass because its later contextualized as him trying to fill the void that is betty in his heart, id say it led to character development and was more seen as "senile old man" than "genuinely wanting to get with these women"
Yea he just doesn't want to hurt the princesses (and that time he gave up pursuing pb when she deaged to underage girl.) he simply a mad man who only goal is find the one to help him move on from love of his life disappearing from him. Though he does some dickish things time to time but we know he isn't in control. He is mentally unstable
"Hey panini, dont you be a meany" damn i didnt know Enter was straight thuggin like that.
I like how Lil Nas protrayed chowder since it feels like a high-quality crappost fanfic lmao
2:52 Man I love Mr Enter’s redemption arc
Also 33:49
The best way to describe this ship is that it’s essentially the Sonic X version of SonAmy but on crack, and unlike Amy, there is no good version of Panini
Yeah,you said it best
@ Thank you
Perfect description
It's about on par with it
“Ooh Sonamy, spicy” - Actual real quote from a sonic episode
So what I'm getting is sarcastic chords took a chowder ship way too seriously, then magic mush took the guy who took the ship way too serious way too serious, and now Mr enter is taking magic mush video response way too serious. God I love the internet as long as I got something playing in the background as I work I don't care about any of this.
"You deserve a Viking funeral while still being alive." That's quite the rebuke.
The Mr Enter/Sarcastic Chorus/Magic Mush lore keeps going- lovely time to have been subbed to all three already :D
I don't think Katara and Sokka should count as a "competent girl, idiot boy" trope, since both Katara and Sokka have their moments of holding the idiot box and being the smart competent one. Sokka was just a butt monkey a lot during especially season 1 (thought I'd argue he gets less and less of that as the series goes).
Sokka's Butt Monkey status seemed to primarily come from trying to play a role he wasn't suited for (fighting Zuko head on, chauvinism with the Kyoshi Warriors, Leader insistence leading them into a Fire Nation ambush) and thus getting himself into trouble to be humbled, while his success come from when he breaks that haughty pattern (going to the village instead of fighting Jet at the Dam like Aang and Katara did). While he's still the butt of a few jokes, the outright-humiliating stuff slows down a lot when he knows his strong suits as the strategy guy instead of the tough guy.
All this to say I also don't think these two QUITE count for the dynamic because they're not static characters the way a lot of Episodic-Comedy characters are meant to me (and even in shows like Danny Phantom or Kim Possible the Status Quo changes and continuity don't tend to extend to dramatic characterization changes).
@@munromister777 To be fair, Sonka did get his character development. Something that doesn't really happen to a lot of the men in the "competent girl, idiot boy" trope.
I'd like to add that even in Season 1, there were a notable number of episodes where the situation got worse than it needed to be because of Katara not listening to Sokka. Examples include the water scroll episode and Jet's first appearance.
Also, Sokka is smarter than he seems.
Remember Tales Of Ba Sing Se?
@@DanialTarki Remember "Tales of Ba Sing Se"? Anyone who doesn't remember it can't call themselves a true "Avatar" fan.
"Sophisticated meta discourse about discourse about discourse maybe"
I find this to be the best part of the video because it's sums up several issues with a lot of internet content anymore.
John is going full-on into his maturity phase -- after nearly a dozen years being a reviewer, he's seen it all, suffered more than most internet peoples (for stuff that both was and wasn't his fault), learned his lessons evidently, and is trying to do his job more professionally in a world gone stupid at both extremes.
And yet still refuses to undergo treatment for his mental illnesses because he's way too arrogant to admit it.
@@summerjonz
1. What mental illness are you talking about?
2. Unless he’s harming anyone I think stuff involving his mental health shouldn’t be our business unless he wants it to be our business and what he does relating to it is his choice not ours
@@AmirysMewen Possibly a combination of Bipolar Disorder and Intermittent Explosive Disorder which he's always furiously refused to undergo treatment for.
@@summerjonzhuh?
He's reflected that numerous times.
Out of all three video essays discussed I honestly find this one the best and most cleanly written.
Chowder was one of my favorite CN shows as a kid. But the whole Panini thing was one of the many things from that show that I could take or leave.
I loved Chowder but i always saw Panini as a stalker and didn't understand why the show would make jokes off her being a stalker
I usually gobbled up ANY female character I could find. Plus, Panini being a pink rabbit was also a plus. One thing I canNOT forgive is being an unapologetic JERK and being treated as having made up for it despite not putting an effort in at all (unless you're a classic Disney villain or going for those vibes), hence why my personal least favorite of this wonderful cast is the nowhere-near wonderful Gorgonzola. If Greenblatt wanted Chowder and Panini's relationship to develop despite the episodic nature of the show, he could've developed Gorgonzola PROPERLY.
@@Spagoooterman I always thought it was cheap and easy filler content for the writers to fill screentime
Yeah, turned me away for the same reason I lost interest in that one squirrel brother show.
The constant presence of a character who does crappy things but never gets punished for them.
@@bolbyballinger The show you are referring to is actually called Squirrel Boy.
you know, as someone who's cpr trained, it's really not as romantic to fake needing it as one might think. if you can somehow last 30 chest compressions, each 2+ inches deep, without giving the ruse up, you'll be rewarded with the person you desire plugging your nose, forming a complete seal around your mouth with theirs, and exhaling *hard*. you'd be lucky to walk away without a broken rib or two
that being said, i think it might be funny to see what would happen if someone in fiction pretended to need cpr only to receive a realistic portrayal of it.
I definitely needed a video on this topic, and as someone that has trusted you and been a long time viewer, your vision on this topic is much more impactful than the other youtubers that clearly talk about it for clout.
You actually care about the topic, medium and the show a lot more, meanwhile the others use it for views. No one is wrong and all that, but I personally needed a wake up call in this topic because I need the self reflection myself, and I am glad that you boil it down to "It's complicated, but thank goodness this is fiction and not reality where it's much easier to stomach"
37:35
The three pillars of a mature approach to art:
1: There is no distinction between 'high' and 'low' art.
2: There _is_ a distinction between 'good' and 'bad' art.
3: There is nothing wrong with liking 'bad' art or disliking 'good' art, because how one feels about a work of art has as much - if not more - to do with the person's own experiences than a qualitative assessment of the art.
>no distinction between good and bad art
You just insulted every good artist who actually tried. Thank you, really cool. And smart. You are really smart.
Ah, the EFAP trinity.
@@IzemWestan-k1g Please, those clowns did not invent standards.
@@NotOrdinaryInGames????
@@DanialTarki I am an idiot without reading comprehension. If you are reading this, Camkitsune, I apologize for this.
You know, Mr. Enter’s reason on why he doesn’t ship Chowder x Panini is also the same reason why I don’t ship Timmy x Tootie or Timmy x Trixie from Fairly Oddparents.
Same with me and Cody x Sierra or Cody x Gwen from Total Drama.
...Y'know, it never really occurred to me until now that Cody and Timmy have the exact same love troubles, where they're being constantly pursued by someone they have no interest in, but then they go and do that exact same thing to someone else
To be fair to tootie it's been shown a few times that when she drops the stalker attitude she DOES genuinely care about Timmy Channel chasers was a great example of this
@@Geomaster97 Oh yeah, I remember that! That was her best moment in the series.
People who put Tootie on the same level as Panini or others are scummie to me. She's clearly an abused girl. That's her plot. Not the stalking jokes that make up 1% of her screentime.
@@ELRIFL I think it's down to flanderization again. In early seasons, Tootie was mostly very outspoken with her crush, but didn't really foist herself on Timmy (who actually did more to retaliate like throwing Water Balloons at her), which made it easier to believe in things like the Crimson Chin toy episode where he sympathizes with her situation being his-without-Fairies. It's also made clear he doesn't instantly come around on her but is a bit less defensive by gifting the toy to her. Channel Chasers she also has genuine reason to be concerned, crush or not, that someone her sister babysits suddenly disappeared presumably from the same treatment she gets at home.
Later seasons are where it gets bad because she turns more to just wanting Timmy rather than wanting Timmy to like her back, so the jokes become "haha stalker character gets grabby" in things like the 3D-Glasses episode. As usual, Flanderization saw the antics but lost the parts that made it endearing for its original style.
I've seen all or almost all of MagicMush's videos myself. When watching through that Chowder video, I was put off by it and was left thinking "Did this really warrant a 40 minute video?" and I didn't end up finishing the video.
With this video, the 18:00 section absolutely convinced me that MagicMush is wrong. His argument he was making was that "They're children", and yet the show acts the same way when it is with adults.
Framing is extremely important in media. With almost every joke, there is one subject that's painted as rational and another subject that's painted as the butt of the joke. With Master Roshi, it is Roshi himself who is treated as dumb for the joke. Same with Johnny Bravo. But with Pannini and Chowder, Chowder himself is treated as the joke with his reactions to Pannini. No matter what the roles are, it's always the boy whose framed as the joke.
It doesn't really act the same with adults. The kids, while treated for comedy, are kind of treated as their actions being a part of their immaturity and will grow out of it at some point. In fact, I think Panini's "problematic" moments are a result of her immaturity and letting her selfish feelings get the best of her, despite being shown to wanting Chowder to be happy. The future stuff is part of a joke, as well.
Also, no, it's not always the boy treated as the joke. In both the first season and the others, Panini is treated as the joke. As the one not understanding what she's doing or not caring enough. She is prominently made as an example of someone taking their affection for someone too far. Sure, Chowder is treated as a joke for not understanding Panini, but Panini is also treated as a joke for not taking no for an answer and going too far with it, especially in the other seasons.
Let’s not forget that in a general sense, Sarcastic Chorus was right about Panini being annoying and creepy, and that her and Chowder’s romantic development should’ve been done better if they were to get together.
Thanks, Flanders.
@@darkestccino5405 the element that ultimately peeved me was when mush comment seccion went: "ofc they would only aim than children's shows for these analyisis if they did on shows for adults they would call out on their bs"
And this wasnt aimed only at sarcastic chorus's videos but to many other "pretentious" essays.
Funny since in the example of pretentious he went for the "funnsies/beating the dead horse" episode 7 of the copaganda essay series.
With all the other essays being aimed at live actions for well... erm...
Adults.
You can argue that it was overblown cheap low hanging fruit on skip part.
(Specially when the issue was this show has are not too diferent "aura" wise than chipchilla, except more transparent and earnest (not on a badway btw))
But yeah its a good case of "actually didnt watch the content creator that much lol"
@@DanialTarki I disagree heavily with that, but I respect your opinion.
32:26 -33:44 I was not expecting you to mention MisAnthro Pony/Zaid Magenta/Diaz Station in a video of yours but I got a good laugh out of that. Thank You John!
Yet he keeps justifying his behavior and simplifying it to "mean words" all because he keeps insulting people for simply disagreeing with his opinions on Disney's Star Wars and other stuff.
This is what led him to getting backlash and led him to doing what he did with his burner accounts on his detractors (especially Cartoonshi).
@@TheMovieAndCartoonFan I wish that someone had mirrored his take on Cuties.
@@AnimeArchaeologist I’m sure someone has it reuploaded online somewhere
40:42 Could you imagine suddenly being harassed and cyberbullied by a group of Chowder vore people?
Out of context thats a wild statement.
What
Crazy timing with the new magicmush video
Not exactly a coincidence, it seems.
@Mew_Master ngl I didn't know this was gonna be a response video but still funny how quick it took to come out
Kinda surprised considering MagicMush made fun of Enter lmao
That's literally the UA-cam Metagame
I was about to say the same thing, lol
MagicMush’s video always irked me for feeling hypocritical with “taking media too seriously”. It goes into an entire tangent about shipping culture but decides that wanting to analyze shows like Chowder in a serious light is weird. Makes total sense.
I mean I kind of agree with the idea it’s presenting (I think too many video essays are trying too hard to grasp straws) but with the instance of the ship, it feels too dismissive at like whats actually happening. Tbf the UA-camr he is critiquing is also is hypocritical for not finding the Kanker Sisters also problematic
Also no one's talking about that weird jab where he said the only dudes he's known to be into shipping were autistic and then did this whole "of course" thing when one of Sarcastic Chorus' community posts said something like he might be. Kinda outta pocket imo, and not really relevant to his points.
I think Panini would’ve worked better as Chowders rival. Sort of like how Endive is Mung’s rival. Make her a sort of popular and arrogant. But smarter version of chowder to be a foil to him.
She was meant to be EXACTLY that in the show's production but they retooled her into his love intrest
i feel like gorgonzola also fits that role, but then they never really used him in that way very much, he mostly just was the squidward of the show who had bad things happen to him.
@@Geomaster97 Uff...that just makes no sense to have done so. She really should have just been a foil considering she works for Mung's competitor, Endive, as her apprentice. Making her the love interest just...kinda ruins her. And the show treated it like it was the cutest damn thing in the world. I've had garbage-soup in wheelbarrows that looked and smelled more appealing. X.X
@@jasperjazzie For Gorgonzola, his role is that he actively resents Chowder for being so happy with who he is. Because he hates his OWN job.
Idk, I feel like it would have been too repetitive if Chowder and Panini had the same dynamic as Mung and Endive. And it's more ironic to have the rival's apprentice actually like him instead.
I think you misunderstood MagicMush’s point. He is saying that people are looking too deep and analyzing comedic cartoons in the wrong way. You can seriously critique/analyze the jokes in a cartoon without looking too deep into the themes that are presented as jokes with dumb humor. I feel whenever you show other cartoons that have serious themes in this video you’re missing the point the most, it’s not the same type of show as Bojack Horseman or Avatar. I like your overall analysis mostly though.
Agreed. That’s all MM I saying. He’s not overanalyzing like SC was.
"it's fine if the girl is being the weird one" basically for many if not all times a one sided romance is not seen as creepy
Isabella from Phineas and Ferb. Hey arnold helga. Etc. All pink funny enough too.
Then you got the kanker sisters who are straight abusers but like today that's still a joke people think is funny
Isabella should not be lumped into this category, she is a much healthier form of one sided romance as the crux isn't that she is clingy and can't take no, it's that she never asks. Same with Helga.
Both are pining from a distance, don't lump them with Panini who's a stalker.
@gavros9636 have you seen hey Arnold? Helda does the same thing as Panini in a few moments and even gets asked why she's there.
Isabella has an obsession too and only gives up when Phineas doesn't show one ounce of reciprocating her feelings but it's still bad especially since her friends even call her out on it in world showing she is obsessed since they even see it
The Kanker Sisters are the neighborhood bullies basically. I enjoyed their own episode where they try to find the ship in the bottle Ed unknowingly stole while sleepwalking again. I do find them funny still, especially when they get their taste of their own medicine when the Eds do reverse psychology on them even when it doesn't last long in the end.
I do not recall Isabella pushing boundaries or not taking 'no' for an answer.
@@ivanbluecool Isabella never really does anything to push boundaries or make Phineas visibly uncomfortable, because the joke is that she doesn't come on strong and he's too dense to see her as more than a friend. She's also still a positive friend and presence in their friend circle, so her primary role isn't the one-sided crush anyway. The jokes are more at her expense with Phineas not seeing a sign vs Chowder or Timmy being distressed by the crushing-girl's attention, which is also the crux of the fan-preferred finale which is about addressing their chemistry years after.
Helga I also just think is a very different case because Hey Arnold isn't a wackier comedy and any time her crush is treated in earnest they bring it down to more genuine actions (like the Christmas episode where she does it JUST to make him happy, not for his thanks or adulation).
Pretty good video but ngl I feel a bit weird hearing at the start Enter mentioning to keep in mind they wouldn’t be into shipping as an aroace guy.
You know as an ace guy who falls under the aro spectrum and is actually into shipping from a story perspective. Probably a me thing tho yeah actually ppl should normalize that there is reason to like romance plots in a story without needing to want it for yourself irl. Same way you wouldn’t want to die but can appreciate a death in a fictional story.
Felt that tbh
19:40 At the same time I do think them getting together in the end *is supposed to be comedic.*
And I like to imagine they found a way to make it work, set boundaries and everything, but that might be thinking about it too much.
I feel like it was at least supposed to be absurd with things like the number of babies and kid Chowder walking on screen to say "no, I refuse," whether or not the joke landed as such.
The only thing I'll say regarding Panini vs. The Kankers is Panini gets worse/Flanderized in her advances on Chowder as the show goes on while The Kankers remain consistent in their advances. Also, while The Kankers have their obsessive crushes on The Eds like Panini has for Chowder, there are Episodes where they have other interests/character traits beyond The Eds, like in The Valentine's Special Marie gets character development beyond just her love of Edd when she gets jealous of May falling in love with him.
not only that but the kankers were clearly supposed to be the antagonists, and their obsession was meant to be creepy, and to be fair it was also used for comedic effect which i get can rub some people the wrong way, but you were never meant to find it endearing, except maybe in the valentines special and even then that's a stretch, meanwhile panini ends up marrying chowder in the end, and it just seems like you were supposed to have found her antics cute in some way.
Steven Universe is a show about lesbian space rocks fighting other lesbian space rocks trying to hollow out the earth. It also has some of the best romantic plots in animation. Shows can be conceptually silly but handle themselves seriously and do it well.
Each to their own but no
Hell yeah
If I were Chowder, I would be filling a restraining order against Panini.
He would...if he knew how. He's an idiot like that.
Me too.
34:18 - I'd argue it was CC West's "Mabel is Terrible" video that sparked the Mabel hatred discourse since his video went into more depth with a lot of the Mabel criticims, and yet his video was incredibly bad faith with moments he took too seriously, didn't pay attention and was just incredibly bad faith as a whole....
Also CC West turned out to be a child predator.
Chowder is still one of my favorite cartoons but the Panini definitely should have been portrayed as more horrific. Yanderes man…
Good god, chowder is old enough to be drafted now….
@@gigaswardblade7261 “Chowdah! Pass me the MG42!”
@@M0b1us_118 Chowdah... Sweet heart... dear boy... I got killed in Vietnam, because you and your friend Schnitzel wanted to be a couple of ANTI-WAR HIPPIES!
YES! MAGIC MUSH AND ENTER CROSSOVER EPISODE!
Now its your turn to join in!
Glad to see you're still keeping up with Enter's stuff
Ngl, little me hated panini when she broke chowders boundaries.
So imagine how I felt when the finale aired.
When the first timestamp chapter is labeled "WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY" you know this Mr Enter video is gonna be a banger.
The first video of the Mysterious Mr. Enter 2025
I like MagicMush for the most part, but I really did hate how much he ragged on people for reviewing and analyzing cartoons like he didnt just make a 30 minute video on a video talking about a cartoon
I'm gonna be honest, I turned off the Magic Mush video like 5 minutes in because the video essays he was labeling as "pretentious" were raising red flags.
To be fair it does apply to some Video Essays, he shows a Clip from In Praise of Shadows Conservative Horror Movies Video and alot of that was just moral Grandstanding
Happy New Year Enter. I’m just realizing I’ve been watching your channel for 10 years. I first came across this channel in early 2015 when I was a freshman in high school. Anyway, good video. Chowder is one show I wish I watched more of as a kid because it is very funny, even if I don’t like Panini’s character. Chowder and Phineas and Ferb are like The Office of kids cartoons. They were both pretty well liked during their run, but exploded in popularity well after the end of their runs. You could also put Invader Zim in that category, which has gained a fairly recent cult following
MAP Zaid Magenta is STILL around? He should realize he turns into an indignant psycho while analyzing media. He’s a prime candidate for a conservatorship. He’s a hazard to himself and others.
You're not usually one to make response videos to other youtubers, but this one is warranted.
Oh boy, here we go again
Holy crap Mush got noticed by Enter himself. This is epic.
When I was a teenager a girl teased, flirted with me, and asked me if I had a girlfriend despite the fact she had a boyfriend.
When I was an adult a woman sent me a secret admirers card for Valentine's today despite having a boyfriend.
When I was in university a woman left me for her ex boyfriend 2 days after saying yes to going out with them.
Some women just thinks men are toys that they can just take in and out of the toy chest.
I unfortunately also went through what Chowder went through. But I am just aromantic. I believe women should be held to the same standards as men in regards to unwanted advances. Saying that it doesn't happen as often invertedly prevents us from doing that.
I’ve been a fan of Magic Mush’s other content but the most recent one just kinda confused me more than anything and I also thought it was ironic. Some of his points felt like they didn’t have a purpose in this debate that- as you pointed out- him participating in automatically kinda destroys the “don’t take this seriously” argument.
This is probably one of my favorite videos of yours. I can tell you’ve really matured. This was a really well thought out discussion.
hot take: i think MagicMush's "it's a kids cartoon" argument dismisses the point of the original video.. regardless of if it was a good or bad point to begin with..
there's plenty of valid point you can make against Chorus' video, but that onr just ain't it..
Dan Schneider shows are kid shows too, doesn't mean his portrayal of romance isn't problematic..
that said, Chowder is not Victorious, so real arguments can and should be made without shielding behind its demographic are media artform..
i don't always like Mr Enter, but at least you attempted to add nuance to this conversation, and addressed this point.. i hope you read my comment
My issue with the "it's a cartoon" argument in general is that it ignores the fact that animation is a medium for telling any story. Hell, I grew up with the anime version of this where in my country, anime is treated as something for kids despite the obvious fact that there're animations out there which portray serious issues. Such as Gundam. Or RWBY.
@@AnimeArchaeologist literally.. it's disrespectful to the artists who worked on it, and the writers who spent time making sure every joke is deliberate and meaningful..
but it gets worse, because there's people who even go as far as to use "it's a show" as an argument (yes, they'll even include live action shows, adult shows, maybe even movies) and it's like, then what's the point of media analysis if you can't analyse anything that's just a show? am i supposed to analyze the news or something? no thanks, i hate politics lol
@@12DAMDO Worse - you and I are both get told to "touch grass" whenever someone like you and I decided to analyze the media. My background is anime (as shown by my username) and the amount of people who got mad at me for watching it over the years? That's a lot. It's one thing if it's online, but then it gets worse when it goes into the real world.
One of the few places that haven't been given the "it's just a TV show" treatment would be reality TV. Shows like 90 Day Fiancé and Dance Moms? People get to talk about it and no one gets mad at the whole thing happening.
@@AnimeArchaeologist Oh "it's just a show" or 'it's just a cartoon." When questioning unrealistic logic, that's the only time I think that argument is valid. Bob the Tomato is not real. But when it comes to just criticizing shows in general, then yeah I think the argument is disrespectful. Oh just using that excuse as a way of quietly telling you to shut up and kill all discussion.
I have fond memories of watching "Chowder" on Cartoon Network back in the day. Interesting how Greenblatt went on to do Nickelodeon's "Harvey Beaks", which is a very different kind of show. Whereas "Chowder" is very zany and wacky, "Harvey Beaks" is more low-key and down-to-earth. Hard to say which show I like more.
I hope this doesn't turn into another UA-cam drama event.
it's crazy how far mr enter has come.
Magic mush being noticed I thought he existed only to me
Having a somewhat incompetent or even dimwitted girl character occasionally popped up back then, like Chelsea from Thats So Raven was the quickest example that came to mind 🤔.
Or London Tipton from Suite Life of Zack & Cody.
@@M0b1us_118 Oh yeah I forgot about her😂😂.
I feel like those characters only show up if there is another girl who would be the smart straight man to them. Lindsey and Heather from TDI, Starfire and Raven, Ty Lee and Azula. The only girl character that comes to mind without another girl counter part is DeeDee from Dexter's Lab
@@ShadowRohanX And even in the case of the latter two duos, Starfire and Ty Lee were ditzy, but they weren't stupid or prone to bungling things anymore than their peers (Ty Lee in the beach episode makes it clear she can read behavior or mockery whether or not she reacts to it).
happy holidays Mr. Enter!
time to watch
Every single Panini line was a banger. She walked so Lola Bunny could fly
Also, despite Enter not finding the Panini stuff in those second and third season episodes funny and hating that one episode, I actually find all those Panini moments funny, and the joke was obviously made on her. The show doesn't take the romance and character stuff seriously, so I wasn't upset over it.
I respect Mr. Enter's opinions, but I both disagree with him, agree with Magic Mush, and I don't find Panini problematic at all. I even liked her when she became "flanderized."
I've been weirdly consuming Chowder clips for the past several days and all of a sudden Mr. Enter comes out with this video centred on Chowder. Spooky.
Nice video mr enter hope you make more of these
Brock and Master Roshi mentioned in this video? Let's go Enter! You are really finding your groove again!
Love watching you and MagicMush lmao.
This Chowder Quote sums up Me to Panini:
*"I've got a Tip for You: CORK IT!"*
TLDR internet people take comedy cartoons too seriously. Like if it's comedy show like Gravity Falls or Star vs where they have serious moments intentionally and often, then yes you can apply real world serious logic, but if it's Ed Edd n Eddy and Chowder, you're barking up the wrong tree for applying an analytic lens.
As a girl I always found Panini annoying at worst and funny at best, I don't think it's bad though, because she help show me how a little girl SHOULDN'T treat boys. I think it helps to show that her advances and jealousy doesn't work and that she is oblivious. I don't think she needed to be punished more because the point was pretty straightforward, he was scared of her which is the most hurtful thing if you like someone. It was dramatic irony I think.
I believe it's very important to be able to realize characters can be exaggerated a lot too, I had an issue where I would judge cartoon characters like people and it made most shows unwatchable. I got out of that, but I think it is common for people to fall into that which could lead to shipping being taken so seriously. I really don't think that is healthy because I have had friend who would make something really abusive romantic because they took shipping as real life instead of separating them. It was stuff like getting hurt to see someone and they seemed to really think it was "cute and romantic" and not "messed up, but still enjoyable as a story and as a couple." I think there is something in here about being able to enjoy something without actually thinking it's okay in real life and those need to be disconnected more often.
Great video though, I remember watching Sarcastic Chorus and being put off by the video Mush talked about, really cool to see this chain.
I hope Mr. Enter goes for a more broad approach at the end of the year. Nickorama was not a terrible idea, but the execution lacked due to trying to cover the entire show in one episode, and doing it for over a dozen shows. What I always thought would have been better would be to do initial thoughts on the first like 3 episodes of shows he didn't have history with, and more expansive discussion on the start of shows he knows well
Funny enough, that reminds me of Nostalgia Critic's really old "Raiders of the Story Arc" idea he did for a few cartoons, analyzing their pilot/multi-part intros to see what impression they give and how they set up the show. It can be a good approach for shows with serialization that are too big to cover in one video of that scale: "does this seem like something you'd want to get into?" as a question to answer
Comedy is no laughing matter. Jokes are serious business.
The best comedies care about their comedy.
Okay I might've checked out around the bit before 32:20 but wasn't Mush's point that Sarcastic Chorus was omitting punchlines? Were those clips all from the Sarcastic Chorus video, or were you going at some other point? Then again I at least haven't seen the Sarcastic Chorus video recently, so like, whatever.
With how often Mr. Enter has been mentioned, we need Mr. Enter to make an actual cameo on MagicMush video.
It would be peak youtube-nema.
I remember there was another pink creature in Ms. Foster House for Imaginary Friends like in Chowder, only there she was treat by others like straight up yandere villain 😅
Ahhh yes Berry… oh no
18 years…. Got Dang I feel old
I see that the _Chowder Discourse_ is going strong.
For some reason.
I guess they couldn’t eat the whole meal!
@eatatjoe If it wasn't for discourse, I wouldn't have ANY courses!! Bring on the feast!!! 🍽️
@@RickJaeger *rimshot*
Thanks for examining my childhood. I’ll go get a cane and file some taxes now
Thank god finally someone having a saint takes on sarcastic chorus video !
I knew Pokemon's Brock was a breeder but I never made the connection between that and his amorousness
32:55 Zaid Magenta getting burned. Love to see it!
please collab with magicmush it'd be so fucking funny
2025 is here. My holiday was good.
This was so satisfying to watch as someone who also got way more invested in this beef than I should've. Good job
NGL, I laughed way too much at 33:49
Here's the bit I don't get about "Being Too Critical About Kids Shows": It's adults taking it seriously to criticise for the benefit of parents, and/or the show-makers. Why make it stop? Why stop the demand in making things better?
As someone who grew up watching anime, I extend this to kid's anime as well.
I'm so glad to get this analysis from a fellow asexual. Not the one end of the spectrum that says it was an amoral creative decision and that Panini is a straight up rapper with 1 p, or from the other end of the spectrum that just writes off her negative character traits entirely.
I like your balanced opinion on this, not fully agreeing with either side and saying that both have a point. I would like to see more videos like this and look forward to you doing so.
On to my opinion on Panini. I found her to be funny (even in ”a farie to remember” however didn’t find her plight to be sympathetic and I was laughing because of her reactions), more of a comedic over exaggeration of how kids with a crush would act. I don’t hate her and think that she mostly worked. However, like you said, I do understand why her action would rub viewers the wrong way as that aspect of her character probably got overplayed and overtook her for the worse. That fact that she still end up with him is understandably off-putting to some as it feels like its rewarding her for her behavior to him and that’s not ok. I wish that her and chowder's relationship was better but this would definitely mean her liking him would’ve have to have been toned down a bit so as to make it cute and likeable.
On to how I feel about the situation that caused you to make this video. In general, I think that saying “don’t take a show seriously” is worse than taking a show seriously. While I definitely think that over analyzation/criticism of media can be an issue (look how all the video saying how bad the star war sequel films are if you want prove of that)I find that at worse they are just talking about something that rubbed them the wrong way and it’s understandable that they would feel that way as we all have some trope that does that to us.
The ones that are saying “don’t take a show seriously” could be seen as kind of trying to invalidate those feelings. This is not ok as it shuts down the conversations that needs to be had in order to understand the other side.. In addition, the saying also runs of the risk of saying that children’s media should be mindless filler that donest go beyond what it could be. I’m not saying that it’s intended point but I don’t think we should ignore that.
31:37
Also its so odd how mush dismissed the realm of films for ALL people just cuz' its actually suitable for children.
I know its a bizarro tangent but .... that aint how we got to the "animation genre" fiasco on the first place?
"Oh its a animation so even if its made to apeal all ages (cuz adult animation doesnt exist) its was made for kids, its a genre aimed at kids"
This by far the most hilarious video you've Done Mr Enter 😁 and also Can you also do some BGM music names in your videos again
17:14 if mr. enter thinks THIS about panini, i wonder what would he think about marinette from miraculous ladybug, who is probably WORSE than Panini AT HER WORST
21:01 i think this is more about "the romance jokes fit the tone of the rest of the story and its content and intention?"
after all, rumiko takahashi's ranma 1/2 has the characters sometimes do worse than panini, but at least it is consistent with everyone acting like a sociopathic idiot in a setting that clearly operates on borderline cartoon logic. and managed to make it funny.
and sadly chowder doesn't manage to land the romance jokes well at all
True. Among the things you could call Panini, a pillow sniffer is not one of them.
That Endive stuff gave me flashbacks to that one episode of Rocko's Modern Life where Mrs. Bighead tries to seduce him.
Happy New Year Mr Enter
It's always interesting when I find out that one person I'm subscribed to watches another non-massive person I'm subscribed to.
God i hope this doesn't become a drama
I kinda do. The idea of a show/character like this causing a big Internet drama is a good way to start off the year in my book.
It shouldn’t tbh
While I don’t know much about sarcastic chorus magic mush doesn’t seem to be the kind of guy to start internet beef over a petty reason as criticism
Panini has been compared to Anais from The Amazing World Of Gumball a lot.
Only because they're both pink rabbits.
As someone who is also AroAce, i usually, emphasis on USUALLY find romance stories with one obsseive and the other either doesnt care or doesnt know to be really uncomfortable. The only real exception is Dipper and Wendy because the handle it really well
I think a big part of it for Dipper/Wendy is that Dipper is able to act relatively normal around her, so he doesn't come across as too blatant nor Wendy oblivious to red flags or anything. Additionally, episodes up to addressing it in "The Bunker" do show Dipper's attraction isn't shallow (he and Wendy get along before and after as genuine friends and he clearly admires more about her than her looks or a ??? that some shows go with), so even if it can't work out, it's a relatable spot for either people who have been there with a crush or people who enjoy Wendy's character enough to empathize with what Dipper's attracted to.
I think this is another point to it: one-sided romance stories rarely have the romance or attraction as a characteristic so much as a running gag, in that it's there for the story or jokes more than to add to the characters themselves.
7:03 "you are not supposed to take it seriously"
I sometimes have complicated feelings about this sentiment.
SURE. Applying real world logic to a story (take it seriously) is a fantastic way for worldbuilding and think throughly how the setting of a show works (look at dungeon meshi).
BUT THEN some people in the audience take it TOO seriously, and want hard real world logic and things to operate in a certain way, because they think real life works that way when no. Things in real life can work in other ways. Heck, sometimes writers have to tone down things from real life, because, if they told the story exactly as it happened, people would think it is "too unrealistic". "Reality is stranger than fiction" is a phrase for a reason.
OR to quote Grant Morrison:
“Adults...struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know how Superman can possibly fly, or how Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious even to the smallest child: because it's not real.”
"Kids understand that real crabs don't sing like the ones in The Little Mermaid. But you give an adult fiction, and the adult starts asking really fucking dumb questions like `how does superman fly? How do those eyebeams work? Who pumps the batmobile's tires?' it's a fucking made-up story, you idiot! Nobody pumps the tires!"
(Mr. Enter talks about this sentiment at 39:19)
AND I personally think "why would you want realism in a fictional story?" SURE Realism CAN complement a story (look at DR.STONE), but I think a story should focus more on following its own self-imposed inner logic rather than try to be 100% realistic. OTHERWISE it fels like the story hurts itself to adhere to what the author think is reality even if it goes against what was established in the story's own universe
AND TO TALK ABOUT "take a story seriously" in terms of how the creators and audiences react to it...
I think it should be about putting effort (in when talking about a creator "taking it seriously").
If the creators don't take something seriously, they don't care about doing something of quality. That's one of the reasons why power Rangers (Super) Megaforce ended up being what it was. DESPITE being the 20th anniversary of the show, its creators thought "why put effort? our only audience are 5 year olds"
AND "the audience taking it seriously" should depend on what the target audience AND the intention of the story is.
AFTER ALL, if the story's intention is to be funny, it would be really weird that audience wants the the story to be suddenly about drama. HWOEVER THe show CAN be about drama if only for some episodes, to make the character face a conflict, and come out stronger from it and show them victoriously achieve a happy ending (that's basically what super sentai and precure do). HOWEVER, it has to be a drama that's consistent with the show's intentions, topics, and theme (for example, look at wonderful precure's and pokemon sun and moon's episodes about an old pet/animal die from old age)
HOWEVER, the audience can still "take it seriously" by analizing if the story accomplishes its intended reaction , inthis case: to be funny. And very critical about if it manages to be funny or not