How ironic it is that literally today, the same day this video was posted. Lily said that she has no critics and all of them are transmisogynistic stalkers who are obsessed with her. And here we have a trans woman criticizing her content while saying that this is the last time she will cover her and that she wants nothing to do with her. This video is great, my spiteful ass hopes that it surpasses Lily's recent videos as has been the case with her other more prominent critics.
Lily has for sure done far worse than criticise SU poorly, but she keeps giving people reasons to call her wrong in that field. She could very easily jump off the internet, but she loves stirring the pot and then getting mad when people call out her pot stirring method.
@@georgethompson913 While I wouldn't put it past Lily, there are pictures of her pre transition and post, so it's a little, gray area. Not to start a big argument just trying to give the most basic respect to someone who hasn't earned it...
To lily anyone that is a critic of her has to be bigoted because she can not accept that she is in the wrong or to think about how she fundamental misunderstands the themes being told to her.
Not just that but she sees herself as a superior writer compared to those behind Steven Universe but when I saw her writing on Twitter years ago it’s worse than that of beginning writers on wattpad
honestly the "they let pearl hook up with a cute buff lady but they diddnt wanna revisit it because they just diddnt care" point confused me so much lmao bc honestly we really dont need to continue that plotline or need the crewniverse to constantly update us on Pearls datinglife to proof that she is slowly getting better. i personally really prefer leaving it ambiguous and also i feel like the entire situation was really realistic bc "i gave this person my number bc they were cute but also it simply never developed into something more" is a thing thats happens all the time
Ignoring that CN wouldn't even allow gay representation (they gave Sugar an ultimatum in regard to the gay marriage near the end), someone else who tackled the video pointed out that Pearl doesn't know how to use a phone at that time in the series (literally referring to Pearl as a gem boomer).
@@Magma-Idiot-2001 another fun fact: Lilly has no idea how cartoons made she blames writers and not the companies who give them strict limitations she also thinks writers and storyboard artists are the same job
@Igorvein yup, and she even hates Pokémon's story telling, she hates anime, cartoons, games. Even with stuff she likes, she misunderstood them, she skips all the cut scenes in Kingdom Heart, and completely misunderstood characters in Hazbin Hotel.
THIS, I also felt that Pearl pursuing a relationship w mystery girl wouldn't be very healthy because she would very likely just project Rose onto her/pretend she's Rose The whole point is that Pearl is her own person
The thing that urks me is how Lily constantly whines about how much she hates the fact that almost all of the villains (aside from Jasper) are redeemed, and that the show should've had each of the villains killed off. Yet, she literally cannot comprehend that the show was never trying to send that message. It's trying to teach younger audiences that sometimes talking it out with people and talking out your problems is a better solution than violence. After all, the last thing you want to teach young kids is that throwing hands is a perfectly acceptable solution to an issue.
@Sensum-Auxiliumyeah … which is similar to what the US did with Japanese Emperor during WWII. He wasn’t killed, just reduced to not having a god status amongst Japanese society
Lily only seems to she the hero villian dynamic in black and white and misunderstood the entire themes of the show itself showing that even the villian can be redeemed.
@@Zolet_lionheart yeah even when I did found the diamond arc rushed, the idea it was promoting forgiving fascist is such a bad take honestly. Especially as Steven is demanding them to clean up their crap
The vast majority of kids movies and shows do teach young kids that throwing hands is a perfectly acceptable solution to an issue, what are you talking about?
Lily: Why does everyone keep bringing up the Steven Universe video, that was years ago, I've grown as a person! Also Lily: Shoehorns SU into every video she makes regardless of if it fits or not and continues to misunderstand it.
Lily: "my """critics""" are obsessed with me! They won't ever leave me alone!!1!" Freezing Climber: yeah that's the last time I'll talk about her. She's just not that interesting I-con-nic.
the thing that frustrates me most about the criticism that the creators "needlessly shove steven into all the meaningful moments with the gems" is that the gems are fucking rocks. that has thematic meaning. they cannot emotionally advance without human influence. theyre inert, timeless, cold, functional. even Blue Diamond, while sad, isnt able to grow until she met steven. steven is the most prominent human in the show, because he's the only human with such a deep connection to the gems, symbolized by the whole fucking gem imbedded in his body. but, Pink Diamond advanced when she went to Earth and met humans, it had nothing to do with him... its shown time and time again that a human perspective is necessary for their emotional advancement also great video btw you ate that
Even as a kid I understood the reason why Steven had to help the gems get through their issues. While they were his guardians, he was the link connecting them to humanity and teaching them about their own humanity from within. It's why I obsessed so much over the detail that Steven was half human and half gem, the fact that he's part of their world, and Earth's feels so clear as you watch. That's why the Beach City episodes were of importance, it was signifying what was worth fighting for. And I haven't watch the show since I was like 13 so like 7/8 years ago? Or if counting future 5 years lmao- but I remembered that's what made Steven such an engaging main character to me personally, and why I loved the filler episodes and learning about the townspeople.
Exactly! I think you conveyed my comment better than me lol But it is a show about mental health, relationships and family. It’s not a place for senseless violence.
30:25 Another thing I'm assuming she missed is they imply Pearl is dating in A Single Pale Rose. She has a bunch of phone numbers stored in her gem. And ofc in SUF, she goes on a date with Bismuth
While chattel slavery might be the wrong term I do think it's not a bad thing to acknowledge that Pearl was literally created from the ground up to ve a servant to Pink. It's not quite like a "I was hired to be a butler" situation and we see with Pink's command that she physically cannot disobey her Diamond. I've always had a bit of a headcanon that Rose did recognize the huge power imbalance that creates and didn't recipricate Pearl's feelings because of that. On the other end though; Pink calling her "My Pearl" is actually a term of deference not ownership. It would be the same as a ruler calling their servant "My lord/lady", and because of that is a very meaningful memory for Pearl. Also it's funny to me that she complains about Steven having to be present for all events but they also complains about Future where they have an episode about him being upset that he wasn't there to witness Sadie, Lars, and Shep.
I never really thought about the "My Pearl" phrase like that, but I feel like hindsight just hit me with a gigantic cartoon hammer because "My Diamond" is a common phrase in Homeworld for a sign of respect of a higher class
@@Mangacide Yes, there's an interview where Sugar specifically says "No one is calling their Pearl "my Pearl"", making it very obvious that Rose saying that to Pearl was an act of adoration, not a reinforcement of ownership.
When you learn that Lily absolutely hates worldbuilding as a writer, her criticisms of Steven Universe's "filler" sound even dumber than they already are.
agreed but they really did way too much "fillers." You know kinda too much things that dont matter to the plot. But my main issue with Lily's view is especially the way she talks as if the show doesn't matter to the ones making it. The reason they're showing off so many "useless" characters is because they like those characters. Of course they'd want to show them!❤ If that makes them happy and is an area they want to explore, i completely understand that honestly. When I write i always wanna squeeze every part of my story until i myself am able to move on. Every story i make is such a big thing to me and lasts for a very long time, big part of my life, so I just cant comprehend how Lily really just dont seem to acknowledge that.
I would warn you that Lily has a tendency to target anyone who critiques her but I think she mainly just targets Sai Scribbles, Anthony Gramuglia, and CrimsonEnder. So if you fly under her radar your video should be fine.
She’s not above doxxing and false takedowns, she has a literal white knight whom I won’t name who also has experience in fanning small flames into raging infernos
She has a weird binary view of victim hood where someone who is a victim of abuse can do no wrong. Ex: she has argued that Zuko’s arc isn’t a redemption arc but a healing arc because of the abuse he suffered. All the while ignoring that he’s done awful things before changing sides. I think it’s because acknowledging that victims can hurt other people and become abusers would mean having to take a good long look in the mirror. And she doesn’t want to do that.
@@animeotaku307 Her take on victimhood is… interesting, considering to what she did to… A LOT OF PEOPLE. Lily can’t be an abuser or bad person, she herself is a victim!!1!1! Yeah no that’s not how it works Lillian.
@@train4292 I've seen her rancid takes on N too. I haven't seen Owl House so I don't know who Hunter is, but if Lily hates him he must be a great and complex character.
What really bothers me about the Lily Orchard video is that she completely ignores the fact that Lapis tries to fly away from Jasper at first, then Jasper grabs her and holds her back. It's kind of messed up to say that Lapis is the only one in the wrong when the show was heavily implying that Jasper wasn't giving her a choice in terms of fusing.
but lily likes jasper better therefore jasper good. u forgot the lily morality system of "the characters i like are the good guys and i will bend my critical views to excuse their actions, which has no reflection of my self-perception or reaction to my own actions whatsoever obv"
Fun fact: I used to be one of those "Steven Universe is bad even though I never watched it" guys. You know, teenagers and young adults appalled that anyone younger than them could like newer stuff. Then I saw Lily's videos on it and RWBY. The one on RWBY was so bad I realized I was being needlessly negative about SU. (Still haven't watched more than a couple episodes, though, it didn't stir my interest that much.)
@souplife1 I'm currently going through Power Rangers and the last two Yu-Gi-Oh series, so I'm kinda busy on that front, but I might add it to the schedule
You definitely get points for at least giving it a chance. Speaking as someone who watched during the original airings and personally ended up with a strong connection to the show even to this day, I can definitely understand it falling outside of people's interest or tastes. It does feel like the reads that Lilly gave to the show (especially those that would be more 'speculative' as to what they mean/represent) definitely gave people the wrong impression IMO and likely pushed a lot of people away that'd otherwise give it a chance.
I watched it I know how bad it gets because I got Stockholm syndromed into watching it all, and I regret it. The show is very good at being good at making you think it gets better, it doesn't. :(
it feels so weird to me as a nonbinary person that lily exclusively uses she/her pronouns for rebecca sugar and calls them 'becky'. something about it just reads like she's pushing out sugar's nonbinary identity as an insult? it's giving transphobia ironically lmao. also love how most of lily's suggestions for how to improve the episodes of a magical action adventure show is "what if every episode was one character sitting in the literal void of space thinking thoughts with no music or fun animation. just sitting and thinking." riveting concepts like that must be why she's such a best-selling and widely known writer!
I mean, it *could* work, but you'd have to be really good with dialogue,visuals and still it could end up tiring and always seeming the same. Plus we'd miss things like Rose's video to Steven and it wouldn't be realistic to have all the characters sitting in a void just thinking. And *even* if it does work, there's nothing wrong with making a magical adventure series, every creator sets their own rules.
the comment under this (for me) is literally discussing lily's hatred of "filler" episodes 😭 likewise, i recall lily ranting for a good chunk of her original steven universe video about how she finds SU's episode structure to be disjointed and wanted for each episode in every arc to come right after the other. isd she just takes one look at media, decides she doesnt like the look of it, watches it while half asleep and then makes up random nitpicks to justify her hatred of it the morning after
@zaddyfaye6880 from what I learned, her scrips are usually a stream of consciousness, with no second drafts or whatever. She literally says things on the spot without restructuring her words or ideas up to make sense.
Thank you so much for bringing this up. It drives me absolutely nuts. As you said, it's incredibly disrespectful and demeaning, and specifically seems to attack or at least ignore that Sugar is non-binary. Also "Becky" as an insult is quite racialized, implying that Sugar is a dopey, stupid, clueless white girl...but Sugar is openly Jewish.
The fact that Lily is angry that the MAIN CHARACTER, the TITULAR CHARACTER, is… in the show that revolves around HIM is beyond ridiculous. The plot of the show would not have happened if it weren’t for someone DIRECTLY CONNECTED TO STEVEN.
You do know that nothing is above criticism right? Every choice including fundamental design choices should be questioned, especially when they hurt the show. If something is above criticism it needs to be torn down like the tyrants of old.
You can have a titular character without limiting the POV to exclusively that character alone. For example: Literally every work of fiction with a titular character ever.
@@Yami-mugoni613 While it's true that having a singular POV isn't inherently a flaw, I'd argue it isn't ideal for a story like Steven Universe. The show has a lot of world building and a large cast of (often quite literally) colorful characters. Both of which could've been explored more thoroughly with a wider variety of POVs. Don't get me wrong, it's a brilliant show as-is, but it's true potential wasn't fully explored; and I think that's a shame.
@@recycledwaste8737It's not ideal for audience DESIRE for the story to be more about adventure and exploring the worldbuilding. Literally every fantasy world, by design, should be more vast than the main characters. That is not in and of itself a justification to over-bloat the story into being more than what the intention is. (Especially considering that the story being about anyone else would also make the show a lot gayer and, whoopies, it just got declined renewal for wanting a lesbian wedding. Let's just keep acting like it's Sugar's fault for designing as conventional of an outer layer to her story as possible, instead of acknowledging she was doing the best she could with the constraints she had.)
2:50:00 as a femme presenting nonbinary person I really enjoyed Stevonnie's character but at the same time I understand Lily's argument here to a extent. A nonbinary person that presents either femme or masc can easily be passed as a cis binary person and erase the representation through either a dub, subtitles, or even the same series itself if pressured enough. It also doesn't help that most of the time this representations often falls under the femme side, pushing aside masc or amab nonbinary people- BUT THIS ISN'T THE POINT I WANT TO MAKE HERE What I really want to point out is that Stevonnie is still very decent representation for the show's time. Rebecca probably had to fight for the producers to let her give Stevonnie neutral pronouns and used a bunch of loopholes from their own show. Loopholes that actually make their design make sense. How the gems are femme presenting most of the time, how Stevonnie is technically two people and 'they' is used in plural form, how those two people are a boy and a girl so it's still very fair to say that Stevonnie falls in a grey area, etc. SU has become a blueprint on LGBT representation in media, in kids media specifically. Was it always good? Well nothing is perfect, specially when you have a big industry against you, but we can't deny the immense push that Rebecca Sugar and the crewniverse managed to give to the higher ups and thus allowed for much more representation to be allowed in many forms
Stevonnie was the first introduction to any kind of nb identity for a lot of ppl (at least they were for me lol), and looking back from 4 years of being nb myself Stevonnie is still pretty darn good as representation! Rebecca and co really pushed to have the character even referred to as such, and the fact that lily just dismisses all of that work just bc she didn't personally like stevonnie's handling is so frustrating
15:42 Also Eyeball was an essential part in the trial on Homeworld in S5. The reason why the Diamonds believe that Steven has Rose’s gem is because of Eyeball’s testimony and that information came from Steven revealing he was Rose in “Bubbled”. So while the episode would have technically worked without Eyeball, it wouldn’t have worked for continuity in S5.
There are so many response videos that are HOURS long taking everything Lily says apart. There's just so much BS to shift through and the people that do it, are extremely patient, calculated and talented for keeping us entertained through the whole thing that is otherwise unbearable. But what Ive learned from all of them, is that Lily is genuinely stupid. If she likes it, is must be good, if she doesn't it's terribly evil and should not exist and if you like what she doesn't or criticize her, your an actual nazi/communist (insert more hyperbolic 'isms' in there.)
@ but does there need to be one when it will boil down to ‘she doesn’t get plot or characters because she’s willfully and maliciously ignorant and/or just that stupid.’ Eventually everything is said and every creator just feels like they’re beating a dead horse. Same shit, just different paint when it comes to Lily.
@@AJedits65I've considered making responses to her Owl House takes (because not only are they proof that she's a horrid critic, but they're one of the main reasons I believe she uses her takes to prime potential new targets from her audience), but I don't know if I have that kind of patience.
I feel like Lilly has a problem with coming to terms the shows she watches are kids' shows. Now, nothing wrong with watching and liking those and being in a fandom and all that...but at the end of the day one needs to realize who the target audience is. We all go through different stages of development and we have, at one point found out that certain things are not appropriate at certain stage. Kids shows are going to be less violent and have clearer morals. Flaws the characters have are gonna be different. You can't go into a show aimed at 10 year olds or younger and expect Arcane or Game of Thrones.
One thing is mature and another is violent or crude I believe Avatar The Last Airbender is a very mature show,it treats its audience as actual people with brains... Because kids are actual people with brains
I feel like even outside of the fact that this is a kid's show, Steven Universe did not want to do certain things, like kill the Diamonds. I just don't think that was a part of the story and themes they were trying to communicate
I’ll be so real, even if Lily’s take on Stevonnie was right, and they WERE just “a poor-excuse for nonbinary representation” because they start off as more fem-leaning and presenting, THAT STILL DOESN’T MAKE THEM BAD NONBINARY REPRESENTATION. (From the perspective of someone who is gender nonconforming both in my presentation and my actual identity, and has identified as such for a bit over half of my life now:) Nonbinary is an umbrella term the same way queer, trans, and asexuality are. Some people identify as just the umbrella term (I, for example, identify as queer rather than a more specific label), and some wouldn’t refer to themselves with the umbrella term at all (For example, a nonbinary or genderfluid person who doesn’t consider themself trans, an agender person who doesn’t consider themself nonbinary, or a demisexual person who doesn’t consider themself asexual). All this to say, “nonbinary” does not describe or name a single experience or identity. Nonbinary people don’t owe anyone androgyny to any degree. Someone who is entirely feminine-presenting or masculine-presenting can still be nonbinary, because gender doesn’t automatically equate with the way one expresses themself. In fact, I would go as far to say that MOST nonbinary individuals don’t present as fully androgynous most of the time, either because they don’t always want to or because it’s just kind of hard and takes a lot of effort to do constantly. Nearly all of my closest friends fit under the nonbinary umbrella; All but one of them present themselves in a more feminine manner, and the one leftover presents more masculine, while I present androgynous. That doesn’t make any of them suddenly not nonbinary. Yes, nonbinary representation is very important, and it is easier to tell that someone is nonbinary when they present androgynously. But, that doesn’t mean we should be pushing for that to be the only kind of nonbinary representation. It is a disservice to the nonbinary community to remove all nuance from the equation when representing them in media, just as it would be to remove nuance in the representation of ANY community. To call nonbinary characters that aren’t androgynous presenting “bad” or “incorrect” representation is to just harm the community. Representation for androgynous nonbinary people is important and needed, but that doesn’t make it wrong to portray feminine- and masculine-leaning nonbinary characters too.
I gotta admit, being a transmasc nonbinary person with DD's and no desire for top surgery (even if I did, the recovery process would be nearly impossible for me in my current situation), that stung a lot. Especially since I genuinely like wearing feminine clothing at times, like fishnet stockings and sundresses; doesn't make me "girl lite."
She actually just hates nonbinary people (can’t be assed to gender her nonbinary critics and uses she or it pronouns) and thinks Steven should have been a woman and was uncomfortable with Steven-Gem fusions because they weren’t pretty woman
honestly im begging for more nonbinary characters that arent androgynous. or at least a different KINDS of androgynous than the one we always seem to get. i mean thats the whole point of being nonbinary, its not binary, you dont have to be feminine, masculine or androgynous. of course, same with all genders. its just very odd for a trans person to have this mindset to me, it harms everyone by continuing to push the idea that genders have to look a certain way
for real. i'm a pretty feminine person in my voice and preferred body whilst being agender, stevonnie quite literally represents me as a nonbinary person. "bad nonbinary rep" my ass.
I am so relieved to find this video! I've been saying for a while that Lily Orchard is not only a bad critic, but actively uses her media takes as a means of priming her young audience, and you've explained that far better than I could! Also, just FYI, Shiloh (formerly Patchwork Heart) wasn't a minor when ToonKritic abused him; he was 20 when they met. That said, it is true that TK abused Shiloh verbally, constantly misgendered him, and manipulated them into giving him free art assets, all while pretending to be his friend. Also, Shiloh uses he/they/it pronouns; I noticed you called them "she" at one point.
While they are most commonly referred to as just the doctor. On multiple occasions it is told the doctor is called Doctor Who though his name being Doctor Who is mainly referred to in classic who and more so in the early Doctors. But it isn’t just in classic with the 12th Doctor having an exchange with Missy and Bill asks “Why’s you call yourself Doctor Who.” And she says “And also it’s his name.”
the utena section of this video is making me lose my mind. i understand why she misunderstands utena- it’s genuinely a very dense work that can be tough to decode. but to misconstrue it just as badly as she does… i shouldn’t be shocked but i am
She already disrespected Korra and Steven, now I’m getting Utena shade. lily will never bloom, she will remain trapped in her egg. I can’t tell if she watch the show or purposely being obtuse
Lily has stated many times that she *hates* Utena and still to this day mischaracterizes the entire show. A while back she made a video ranking all the anime she's ever watched (it's like 10 shows) and Utena was listed as the worst. Hamtaro (an anime made for preschoolers) was apparently the best anime she's ever seen. 🙄
Lily is a horrible person for many reasons other than her bad SU takes, but I hope this video gets seen a lot so people can see some actual criticism of her opinions.
True these types of people like drake jojo complain about so-called Total whiplash, happy-go-lucky series turned dark Despite always been the case In the early 2000s drake jojo Idiotic twitter takes Are basically the same thing as lily
I think lily’s sister ,Courtney, is right when she said people should pay attention to the fact she’s a child predator(and Courtney is one of her victims) instead of her cringe opinions on Steven universe
It just has this air of presumption to it. Like when a villain in a movie has that special nickname for the protagonist that they consistently use as a flex of disrespect.
Liked how much more in depth this video was than the cut down uploaded initial stream Sai did on it. I also think the final section does a good job at tying together her horrific behaviour with her videos too.
I'd like to add to the discussion of if the Diamonds are fascists or not by adding one aspect that the basically debunks any reason a person could give to say that they are fascists, Homeworld has no economic system. Let me explain as a person that studies history: Fascism isn't just a regressive ideology made to make people's lives worse, it's also an ideology that exists to protect capitalism when it reaches a social-political-economic crisis and it does that by redirecting problems that are caused by capitalism on anything other than it so the working class cannot organize against it. Take the Nazi rise to power as an example: Germany was in a terrible economical crisis after WW1 ended, anti-capitalist moviments like anarchism and communism were getting bigger because the Social-Democracy of the Weimar-Republic wasn't enough to solve the people's problems such as poverty, hunger, unemployment and homelessness, what the Nazis did was tricking the german working class into believing that they were on their side and it wasn't capitalism's fault that things weren't working well, it's the jews, the romani, the communists fault (That's also the reason why there's socialism on the Nazi Party name, it's porpusefully used to trick workers into being part of the cause). What followed after that outside of multiple crimes against humanity were a series privatizations of state-owned companies and the enrichment of the bourgeois ruling class of the time. With that aspect of fascism in mind, it's absolutely impossible to make the connection between the two, you can make very superficial comparisons like Lily does on her videos but that's what they are, superficial comparisons, because when you actually stop to think about how Homeworld works you end up realizing that they have a lot more in common with a factory than an actual government, the act of them going from planet to planet, making colonies to colect their resources to make more gems and expanding it's a completely axiomatic one, they are all spinning the wheel that makes their society work because the wheel needs to be spinned in order for their existence to be justified, because again, Gems don't function the same way humans do
You make a good point, but I think it can reasonably be interpreted that homeworld's norms and operations are analogous to capitalism. Homeworld produces efficient workers that are designated into one role, and solely tasked with carrying out the tasks of that role. They are supposed to be robotic in their efficiency. Homeworld colonizes other planets to gain more resources for production, like how colonization is done for the sake of gaining more capital and workers to exploit. A good real life example right now is the DRC, which due to colonization and imperialism, is exploited for its cobalt and coltan, used for the production of electronic devices. On the factory comparison, factories became widespread due to industrialization, which was the result of capitalism. Factories and capitalism are deeply intertwined because factories make production cheap and efficient, furthering the acquisition of capital. Even if there's no money, it's clear homeworld runs on the idea of production and needs constant resources for that production, so they can expand indefinitely. That's very similar to capitalism. Especially since the production homeworld runs on is inherently exploitative by treating gems more as robots when they have emotions and struggles. The diamonds don't engage in wage theft, but they take autonomy away from their workers. I would argue it's still a form of capitalism.
This video was excellent. As someone that initially just seeing the reception of Lily's SU video made them feel awkward and even ashamed of SU, she truly is a... fascinating person, in the worst sense. A person who refuses to grow up, while being annoyed at people not moving on from her past actions. Someone so entitled and manipulative, that keeps trying to sweep it all under the rug, because what other option there is, other than owning up to her mistakes and horrible actions, something she will NEVER admit (with few exceptions). While I've been going on this rabbit hole of Lily Orchard for a bit now, this video is not only one of the most complete but at the same time charming and entertaining while keeping the more sensitive topic in a serious tone. I guess it's only been a day, but I'm pretty surprised this video doesn't have as many likes as I thought! Of course, I'm pretty sure that will change soon enough...
Lily's hatred for SU feels like when I was a kid and I liked a 'cringey' movie, videogame or tv show and I would openly hate on it in front of my family but would secretly engage in the fandom because I really liked said media... except I was 8 when I did this and Lily was grown.
1:03:39 truly one of the most braindead critiques of Korra, I don't understand how someone can have such terrible media comprehension and analysis skills
Would it help to know that Lily was a terrible student at school with reading being her worst subject, and possibly given passing grades by teachers because they didn't want to put up with Lily for another year?
I saw your video on lapis 6 months ago & the reason why your content was captivating is because you didn't simply slandered lily & call it a day you debunked her lies & gave a thoughtful well documented analysis on the subject itself that gave me a totally new perspective on lapis's character arc that i didn't put my finger on back then so keep up the positive influence you have because it's valuable.
I've only heard of this person now and then, and I never watched a video. But every time Lilly is brought up, she's just so damn miserable and doesn't seem to understand anything she brings up. She's that person who over reacts to everything and is unreasonably upset. You have to walk on eggshells around them because you're scared they'll blow up on you. I don't know why or how people still talk about this person when they don't seem like they'll change or have anything of value to add.
I think part of it is how impactful her original Steven Universe video was, since it did and still does contribute to bad faith takes about Steven Universe, part of it is because she never stops bringing it up and that it's become the poster child for her inability to analyze media period, and part of it is because her media takes might be things people feel she can actually criticize her on. Basically, she denies all the stuff talked about at the end whenever it's brought up, but people can always analyze the videos she puts out, so it's a way for people to get on her ass without her being able to go "nuh-uh" as easily
I don’t think it was until Lily’s SU videos that I genuinely hated an online personality. She calls herself a critic, but all I see is a person who can’t be bothered to explain herself for her nonsensical claims, and have the worst and accusatory takeaways all wrapped in an ugly bow of bad faith. I’d be completely fine with a couple of bad opinions, but to go as far as to assume the intentions of a creator whose work changed my life as fucking racist made me gave up on trying to understand what was clearly a bad analysis.
As someone who’s a huge fan of Steven Universe I feel like her Steven Universe videos has rubbed me the wrong way. Sure Steven Universe is flawed but in the end it’s a children that teaches school age children mental health, support from love ones and love in general. Lily doesn’t realize that children are humans with brains not mindless fools who never grow mature enough like Lily has, she thinks she’s mature but in reality she has a mind of a 6 year old. Lily’s using media takes is her way of praying on minor so she can have her way with them and when she was caught red handed she twist the story around just to make her the victim while everyone is the abuser. If she really wants her past to go away she needs to leave the internet and turn herself into the police at all cost
Not at all. Here's the thing, before this whole Steven Universe video, she actually liked it. So was with MLP and Korra. But then MLP started to expand its worldbuilding, SU and Korra talking about forgiveness and such, etc., and all of a sudden, Lily now has complete disdain with these shows. So much so that she would rather hate on them than to actually wonder why she liked the show in the first place. And why is that you ask? Because she wants to be stuck with her favorite characters kissing eachother.
Eugh-! I'm on 59:27 and love your response so far and agree with the things that you say! But I'll stop here for at least a moment . After knowing what Lily did to her younger sibling I just can't- I can't with this moment. Great video! I'll watch it later after washing off this icky sensation. Take care everyone!
I honestly believe lily just hates steven universe and rebecca so much because they are successful and are beloved while her work isn't; like i know its a cop-out to go "oh you're just jealous because that person is successful", but the way lily just shows so much contempt for rebecca as a person and SU as a "reflection" of rebecca and how lily seems to tackle similar topics as SU that i just cant help but feel as though Lily is just upset that a popular show is doing what she wants to do with her art and so she hate trains on it and makes bad-faith ad hominem arguments about rebecca to undermine them
I've heard that Lily's ex-wife Lizzy Orchard was a big fan of the show, and Lily is being unbelievably petty about her divorce by constantly slandering the show Lizzy loved so much.
Like, does she think Rebecca Sugar is the only one responsible for the show?? Rebecca Sugar is the show's creator and has oversight on most things, yes, but so many other people work on the show?? And disliking a piece of media does NOT mean you have to hate its creator but Lily REALLY seems to hate Rebecca.
@@stroodleloodle2909 Sugar does go by both She/Her and They/Them so not technically misgedering though Lily realy hates her for reasons i'll never understand
I really do get tired of lily bringing up KH cause from what we learned from another youtuber bringing it up but lily doesn't actually understand KH and only says stuff that she THINKS happens cause she actually skips alot of cutscenes in the game and even skips whole games.
Sometimes it's a little hard being a KH fan because so many people don't take it seriously. And it's even worse when Lily is out there, loudly associating herself with it.
Lily has the media literacy of a 6th grader. She also can’t make up her mind! Does she want the show to only focus on Steven? Or only focus on everyone else? Like c’mon, I started watching Steven universe at around age 13. Yet I understood that there was a point to watching Steven and the way he impacts his friends. And viceversa. I didn’t know what the point was in exact words cus I was a kid. But this is a fully grown woman who is still constantly screaming about kids shows being evil. Like I don’t think we watched the same show with how oddly wrong her recap of events is.
I watched SU for the first time in 2024, and I loved how complex it was. I genuinely didn’t understand the criticisms bc all that was said was that a lot of the gems were “toxic,” like YEAH, THATS THE POINT!!!! WE ARE MESSY BEINGS! THINGS GET UGLY SOMETIMES! SPINEL WAS A VICTIM BUT PROCEEDED TO HURT OTHERS! She’s not a saint, but that’s why she was so great to see! She even said so herself!
Excellent video! I was a Steven universe fan around the time and the impact of Orchid’s video hit me personally, I’m tempted to peruse financial compensation lol. Thanks for making it, it’s also doubles as a good soundtrack to last minute holiday ahopping
i remember when lilys video came out it was just a horrible influence for me to watch because it made me worried and afraid i liked a show as a kid that was teaching me "bad things". the only "technically" correct criticism she made on su is that, the show doesn't do a lot of hand holding when handling the more distressing topics, like toxic relationships and such, but honestly that's kinda the charm to it, watching it now as an adult, it is so much easier to understand the harsher topics and it makes more sense. children shows aren't always lessons where things are taught to the child step by step, some are just, non-adult themed artistic pieces that are supposed to be an experience and grows with you as you get older, and i think that's more of what su was. lily apparently expected it to be the "here's an apple. here's what an apple is" type of kids show and ran with assumptions through that. i think that's why it influenced me so much, her video. she presents herself as though she's concerned, that if there's isn't any specific or direct guidence towards these themes, than children will be led astray and be brainwashed into some agenda. and as a kid i took that concern as genuine. now as an adult i just see someone who's really pissed that a show managed to work so well despite not using all of the methods of writing she personally found superior.
57:52 That is the point of a musical number Especially in A musical series in music theatre A song is supposed to drive the plot forward But also telling The audience What's the Characters are feeling
Hello, commenting for the algorythm! This video fucks and i really enjoy your presentation style! The drawings are really cute, plus props for the music choices, i yippied when i heard mad rat dead ost In regards to its content itself I used to be a steven universe hater back in the day. Having some bad ex friends who were fans of it didnt help much. I used to watch some videos critical of the show as catharsis then Im glad the old me is being proven wrong by people re examining the show and showing how much those videos misrepresent the show.
The Utena slander is what always gets me. One of the most critically acclaimed and influential shows in the last 30 years with hundreds of thousands (if not millions if we throw in all the youtubers who talk about it) of words worth of literature written on it explaining WHY it's a masterpiece. And Lily didn't get it on the first watch and therefore assumed it was bad, but one of the earliest things everybody learns about Utena is that NOBODY understands it on a first watch. That's part of the fun: unpacking the contents and piecing together the puzzle. Side note, I know she said it as a one-off joke, but if Utena was in Kingdom Hearts I would absolutely lose my shit in sheer joy.
Yeah I think Rose being/formerly being Pink Diamond gave her special insight that many “upper crust” Gems were just as brainwashed into the system as anyone else. Instead of trying to bring those ranks of Gems around to Rose’s cause and reform them, Bismuth just wanted to shatter them
@@CGFillertext also Pink did go with the shatter route (abliet faking it) and we saw how that turned out.... she probably wouldn't have done that Bismith hadn't put the idea in her head
HOW DO YOU NOT HAVE MORE SUBSCRIBERS, this is extremely well edited and well spoken. One of the best Video Essays on Steven Universe ive seen in a while-
I can say most if Lily's video are just as terrible if not more so than the SU video. Especially when she keeps shelling out her fanfics as better than the material she's criticizing. Which she then pretended didn't existed like Stalkholme or Scars.
45:22: Pearls absolutely are slaves though. Not because they're forced to follow certain roles, but because they're the only gems who are seen as property and as having "owners." A key aspect of slavery is that the enslaved are seen as property and not people and this separates Pearls from other gems who are depicted more like members of a military
Not necessarily your fault, but the word filler in the video is incorrectly used by you and lily, filler is especificaly used when the studio does something to stretch time, like a anime original episode or arc, or anime original scenes, just to give a chance for the original material to continue, so by definition, nothing mentioned in steven universe is filler, just non plot important episodes, again, not your fault, just throught that it would be worth bringing up, cool video btw
Just wanted to say congratulations on this video getting to 40,000 views within 3 weeks. It's really well done and I enjoy your SU response videos in general, especially the one discussing Bismuth where you point out that the theme is about punitive versus restorative justice, not "fighting always makes you as bad as the oppressor" (which unfortunately both people who agree with Lily AND people who disagree with her/like that theme think SU is about, missing both the main topic in the show and also removing all nuance from an actual real world conversation). I know you said this would be your last video on Lily, but if you make more videos on SU in general in the future, I'll definitely keep a look out
I never watch lily orchard back when she was at her peak, but i do recall someone on my discord said fusion is sex and claim the show is disgusting because of it. That is until a friend of mind clears the air and explains to me what fusion really meant. It shows how influential Lily is back then when someone outside the loop of su heard that. To me i don't think she care if her take make su look worse than it really is, she don't care if her take will discourage other from makeing more nuance stories...or how her influence will make executives tight up creative restrictions. All because she wanted control. She hates what she doesn't understand, and she might either conquer it...or destroy it but never learn from it. If i can speculate Lily's mind for a bit, i will say she see the world as winner and losers. With the winner exploiting the loser. She want to be the winner so badly but never bother the rules of the game...she rather want to destroy the table so she said she won.
It is not just that Lily is wrong for the 10th time, is that Lily is tremendously, horribly, at a cosmic level wrong for the 1000th time while criminalizing completely regular people in the process
This was the first video of yours I was recommended and I'm very impressed by your editing and thoroughness. Though you call yourself Freezing Climber, if you keep making dissections and analyses like this, you'll be on fire in a few months.
I think one of the most egregious mischaracterizations Lily ever had about SU was to say Garnet of all people had no depth. Absolutely fucking baffling that she could even think that.
lily talk for 4 seconds without mentioning she's 'been abused' challenge impossible. that has nothing to do with the video nor does it excuse her actions or attitude - there's zero reason to bring it up other than 'weh weh feel bad for me i'm too baby to be held accountable'. it just comes off as inappropriate rumination and a sad attempt at getting pity, which is ineffective to an audience who have also been abused and don't treat everyone around them like trash or constantly talk about their abuse lmao.
It's because Lily thinks abuse victims can't do any mistakes, because going against that would require her to look back at her own actions. She also calls any character she likes an "abuse victim". She likes Jasper, so she must be a perfect angel "abuse victim", and Lapis must be the abuser.
I'll never let it slide that I fell for her initial video and even left a favorable comment, before coming to my senses and deleting it, realizing she was completely off the mark. People like Lily are obstinate to a fault. She "knows" she's right, even if reality itself would beg to differ. If the choice between Heaven and Hell came down to Lily admitting she's wrong, then you'd best believe she'll walk backwards into Hell. There's really nothing that can be done for her, because she doesn't want good faith. She doesn't want help. She doesn't want to understand. She's in her own fantasy world. I swear to you she's almost a Persona 5 villain. Eventually all of this is going to catch up to her in a bad way, and she'll be left flailing in the wreckage, blaming everyone but herself, before disappearing for good.
@@WokioWolfy You'd be surprised how many people will keep trucking even when their reputation is barreling downhill. A lot of times people will say it's so over for someone, but they'll persist and stick around. It's not over for Lily until she's reached utter desolation.
Its INSANE to me that lily hates SU, but loves KH when their themes have VERY clear similarities. Fuck, i even can make a comparision between sora and steven. Sorry for the tangent, but pliz play kingdom hearts (i know lily its VERY un-trustworthy person, but a broken clock can sometimes give the right hour), it's a great ass story and i would want more ppl to experience/enjoy it.
I think she has a huge parasocial relationship with them. She thinks she knows them. She thinks they’re her sworn enemy. SHES FIGHTING WITH A WALL. It’s weird as all hell
I think she has a huge parasocial relationship with them. She thinks she knows them. She thinks they’re her sworn enemy. SHES FIGHTING WITH A WALL. It’s weird as all hell
20:55 funny, it's always "If this was a solo character episode it would be better" but like, it wouldn't. If you want a serialized show where the characters are alone and thinking to themselves, then watch adult or serialized shows/dramas. This is a show for 10 year olds and under for crying out loud, you are a grown ass woman Lily, this show isn't for you.
Did anyone else notice that Lily Orchard's comments about the musical numbers kind of come across as her not understanding the point of musicals in general instead of criticizing the show specifically?
Lets be honest here the diamonds are very, complicated characters. And if anything the diamonds are more like feudal kings or rather queens, that only really thought of what's right for their people instead of what their people want or what harm they're causing to their people, and when they lost pink due to a misunderstanding a lot of their actions turned from trying to do whats best into doing things out of pure grief and anger towards someone who "wronged them" and it took steven having to shatter their world view in order to help them become better gems, and especially better rulers, or at least the better rulers and parents steven at least wants to see
I still hate her takes about Stevonnie's design because Stevonnie is good enby rep. And the episode they debut in does represent what puberty is like for a lot of non-white afabs out there. Myself included. Sorry for being an early bloomer, Lily. And sorry for not being androgynous enough to your standards.
I'm convinced Lily deliberately stirs the pot for cheap rage bait. That channel of hers is dying a very painful decline. Even her handful of fans are too scared to speak to her.
Honestly what I get out of Lilly’s video more than anything is that she’s extremely jealous, demeaning, and bitter about Rebecca Sugars success with her show 🤷♀️
I only watched the first seven minutes of this video right now, and I thought to myself "Those poses are very danganronpa", abd then you mention it like 10 seconds later
Hehehe nice Celeste astetic you got there. I just got the deluxe edition for switch and am loving it. I’m absolutely going to use the jounal for ace attorney
1:02:40 hearing gringos say capoeira wrong is always weird, but hearing she say it wrong and trying to use it to make a point feels really really bad... Ugh I hate it 2:33:55 and did she really compared Fallout3 with Baldurs gate 3? Like, damn...
@@Hacimheasanam no, it's like a mash up with other songs, using that song but it also had parts of had it coming from chicago and it turns into Philistine from No More Heroes 2.
1:09:45 Ok that actually makes me super angry. As someone raised by an insanely fatphobic mother, having Pink (An abused AuDHD Child) being "skinny" to reflect how she is abused (mentally, physically, and emotionally) and forced to be "skinny" (since gems are basically light projections and can look any way they want) because Diamonds must be "perfect" and then later, after she escapes her abuse and abusers, she lives a healthier life and that is reflected by a bigger body type! That is so important to me as someone who greatly struggles to put on any weight! And Lily making light of it and saying that visual storytelling like that is a problem seriously upsets me.
Lorch complains about anime references in STEVEN UNIVERSE, yet a show she praised constantly CRAIG OF THE CREEK also has anime references too. The following example Spackle Cadet is a magical girl, the Ninja Kids and Elder of the Creek are weebs, Big Time Bobby is referencing DRAGONBALL’s Super Saiyan form, Bring-Out Your Beast both the card game and the episode involving it is referencing YU-GI-OH, TWO PIECE = ONE PIECE, SLIDE THE FERRET = SONIC THE HEDGEHOG, and Otherside Kingdom/Culture and the Heart of the Forest is based entirely on the in universe anime classic HARU: KING OF THE FOREST which I presume is based on classic anime shows and Ghibli movies.
I admire you for being very calm during this video! It contrasts Lily's terminal rage and -I don't blame Lily critics for this,I have yet to see one not get a little frustrated-it might make your opinions hold more weight to Lily , although i doubt that due to Lily being Lily.
How ironic it is that literally today, the same day this video was posted. Lily said that she has no critics and all of them are transmisogynistic stalkers who are obsessed with her. And here we have a trans woman criticizing her content while saying that this is the last time she will cover her and that she wants nothing to do with her. This video is great, my spiteful ass hopes that it surpasses Lily's recent videos as has been the case with her other more prominent critics.
Lily has for sure done far worse than criticise SU poorly, but she keeps giving people reasons to call her wrong in that field. She could very easily jump off the internet, but she loves stirring the pot and then getting mad when people call out her pot stirring method.
Is she seriously that arrogant?
Hah! What a complete nimrod.
This definitely will get better becasue we love watching Lily getting torn apsrt by actually competent literary people.
@@georgethompson913 While I wouldn't put it past Lily, there are pictures of her pre transition and post, so it's a little, gray area. Not to start a big argument just trying to give the most basic respect to someone who hasn't earned it...
To lily anyone that is a critic of her has to be bigoted because she can not accept that she is in the wrong or to think about how she fundamental misunderstands the themes being told to her.
Lily not comprehending Steven Universe is an indictment of how little she understands human nature in general.
Not just that but she sees herself as a superior writer compared to those behind Steven Universe but when I saw her writing on Twitter years ago it’s worse than that of beginning writers on wattpad
honestly the "they let pearl hook up with a cute buff lady but they diddnt wanna revisit it because they just diddnt care" point confused me so much lmao
bc honestly we really dont need to continue that plotline or need the crewniverse to constantly update us on Pearls datinglife to proof that she is slowly getting better. i personally really prefer leaving it ambiguous and also i feel like the entire situation was really realistic bc "i gave this person my number bc they were cute but also it simply never developed into something more" is a thing thats happens all the time
this is a kid show Lilly
Ignoring that CN wouldn't even allow gay representation (they gave Sugar an ultimatum in regard to the gay marriage near the end), someone else who tackled the video pointed out that Pearl doesn't know how to use a phone at that time in the series (literally referring to Pearl as a gem boomer).
@@Magma-Idiot-2001 another fun fact: Lilly has no idea how cartoons made she blames writers and not the companies who give them strict limitations she also thinks writers and storyboard artists are the same job
@Igorvein yup, and she even hates Pokémon's story telling, she hates anime, cartoons, games.
Even with stuff she likes, she misunderstood them, she skips all the cut scenes in Kingdom Heart, and completely misunderstood characters in Hazbin Hotel.
THIS, I also felt that Pearl pursuing a relationship w mystery girl wouldn't be very healthy because she would very likely just project Rose onto her/pretend she's Rose
The whole point is that Pearl is her own person
The thing that urks me is how Lily constantly whines about how much she hates the fact that almost all of the villains (aside from Jasper) are redeemed, and that the show should've had each of the villains killed off. Yet, she literally cannot comprehend that the show was never trying to send that message. It's trying to teach younger audiences that sometimes talking it out with people and talking out your problems is a better solution than violence. After all, the last thing you want to teach young kids is that throwing hands is a perfectly acceptable solution to an issue.
the diamonds weren’t redeemed, they were just given a punishment that wasn’t execution.
@Sensum-Auxiliumyeah … which is similar to what the US did with Japanese Emperor during WWII. He wasn’t killed, just reduced to not having a god status amongst Japanese society
Lily only seems to she the hero villian dynamic in black and white and misunderstood the entire themes of the show itself showing that even the villian can be redeemed.
@@Zolet_lionheart yeah even when I did found the diamond arc rushed, the idea it was promoting forgiving fascist is such a bad take honestly. Especially as Steven is demanding them to clean up their crap
The vast majority of kids movies and shows do teach young kids that throwing hands is a perfectly acceptable solution to an issue, what are you talking about?
Lily: Why does everyone keep bringing up the Steven Universe video, that was years ago, I've grown as a person!
Also Lily: Shoehorns SU into every video she makes regardless of if it fits or not and continues to misunderstand it.
True and her takes on the owl house are as equally bad
@@supergamerboy1177as an owl house fan, I don’t want to know
Lily: "my """critics""" are obsessed with me! They won't ever leave me alone!!1!"
Freezing Climber: yeah that's the last time I'll talk about her. She's just not that interesting
I-con-nic.
the thing that frustrates me most about the criticism that the creators "needlessly shove steven into all the meaningful moments with the gems" is that the gems are fucking rocks.
that has thematic meaning. they cannot emotionally advance without human influence. theyre inert, timeless, cold, functional. even Blue Diamond, while sad, isnt able to grow until she met steven.
steven is the most prominent human in the show, because he's the only human with such a deep connection to the gems, symbolized by the whole fucking gem imbedded in his body.
but, Pink Diamond advanced when she went to Earth and met humans, it had nothing to do with him...
its shown time and time again that a human perspective is necessary for their emotional advancement
also great video btw you ate that
Even as a kid I understood the reason why Steven had to help the gems get through their issues. While they were his guardians, he was the link connecting them to humanity and teaching them about their own humanity from within. It's why I obsessed so much over the detail that Steven was half human and half gem, the fact that he's part of their world, and Earth's feels so clear as you watch. That's why the Beach City episodes were of importance, it was signifying what was worth fighting for. And I haven't watch the show since I was like 13 so like 7/8 years ago? Or if counting future 5 years lmao- but I remembered that's what made Steven such an engaging main character to me personally, and why I loved the filler episodes and learning about the townspeople.
Exactly! I think you conveyed my comment better than me lol
But it is a show about mental health, relationships and family. It’s not a place for senseless violence.
This is a great point that I never thought of before
Wow you're so right. Even Lars had helped the off-colors. Off-screen but he still did.
30:25 Another thing I'm assuming she missed is they imply Pearl is dating in A Single Pale Rose. She has a bunch of phone numbers stored in her gem. And ofc in SUF, she goes on a date with Bismuth
Pearl has so much game that lily refuses to see
@@KelpieRider Pearl could get anyone frankly
While chattel slavery might be the wrong term I do think it's not a bad thing to acknowledge that Pearl was literally created from the ground up to ve a servant to Pink. It's not quite like a "I was hired to be a butler" situation and we see with Pink's command that she physically cannot disobey her Diamond. I've always had a bit of a headcanon that Rose did recognize the huge power imbalance that creates and didn't recipricate Pearl's feelings because of that.
On the other end though; Pink calling her "My Pearl" is actually a term of deference not ownership. It would be the same as a ruler calling their servant "My lord/lady", and because of that is a very meaningful memory for Pearl.
Also it's funny to me that she complains about Steven having to be present for all events but they also complains about Future where they have an episode about him being upset that he wasn't there to witness Sadie, Lars, and Shep.
I never really thought about the "My Pearl" phrase like that, but I feel like hindsight just hit me with a gigantic cartoon hammer because "My Diamond" is a common phrase in Homeworld for a sign of respect of a higher class
@@dilo19000 I think it was mentioned in an interview or something but I can't remember now. It does make a lot more sense that way though yeah
Pearl was custom made for pink after all.
I mean, they're all slaves. They exist to serve a function.
@@Mangacide Yes, there's an interview where Sugar specifically says "No one is calling their Pearl "my Pearl"", making it very obvious that Rose saying that to Pearl was an act of adoration, not a reinforcement of ownership.
When you learn that Lily absolutely hates worldbuilding as a writer, her criticisms of Steven Universe's "filler" sound even dumber than they already are.
You're telling me she loathes one of the most crucial aspects to any story?
That.... That's so stupid. That's the dumbest opinion I've ever heard.
@@FlareStormsoh yeah, Lily's priorities are so assbackwards it's insane
@@Joob_Toob any worldbuilding whatsoever? Absolutely not
Incest? Oh that's requirer
agreed but they really did way too much "fillers." You know kinda too much things that dont matter to the plot. But my main issue with Lily's view is especially the way she talks as if the show doesn't matter to the ones making it. The reason they're showing off so many "useless" characters is because they like those characters. Of course they'd want to show them!❤
If that makes them happy and is an area they want to explore, i completely understand that honestly. When I write i always wanna squeeze every part of my story until i myself am able to move on. Every story i make is such a big thing to me and lasts for a very long time, big part of my life, so I just cant comprehend how Lily really just dont seem to acknowledge that.
I would warn you that Lily has a tendency to target anyone who critiques her but I think she mainly just targets Sai Scribbles, Anthony Gramuglia, and CrimsonEnder. So if you fly under her radar your video should be fine.
Best case senerio, this person joins the Lily Critique Crew
She’s not above doxxing and false takedowns, she has a literal white knight whom I won’t name who also has experience in fanning small flames into raging infernos
For supposedly being an abuse victim Lily sure loves villainizing abuse victims, doesn't she?
Sure looks like vengeance for failing to pass herself off as a victim
She has a weird binary view of victim hood where someone who is a victim of abuse can do no wrong. Ex: she has argued that Zuko’s arc isn’t a redemption arc but a healing arc because of the abuse he suffered. All the while ignoring that he’s done awful things before changing sides.
I think it’s because acknowledging that victims can hurt other people and become abusers would mean having to take a good long look in the mirror. And she doesn’t want to do that.
@@animeotaku307 Her take on victimhood is… interesting, considering to what she did to… A LOT OF PEOPLE. Lily can’t be an abuser or bad person, she herself is a victim!!1!1! Yeah no that’s not how it works Lillian.
If you think that’s interesting, you should see what she has to say about Hunter from Owl House, and N from Pokemon
@@train4292 I've seen her rancid takes on N too. I haven't seen Owl House so I don't know who Hunter is, but if Lily hates him he must be a great and complex character.
What really bothers me about the Lily Orchard video is that she completely ignores the fact that Lapis tries to fly away from Jasper at first, then Jasper grabs her and holds her back. It's kind of messed up to say that Lapis is the only one in the wrong when the show was heavily implying that Jasper wasn't giving her a choice in terms of fusing.
but lily likes jasper better therefore jasper good. u forgot the lily morality system of "the characters i like are the good guys and i will bend my critical views to excuse their actions, which has no reflection of my self-perception or reaction to my own actions whatsoever obv"
Because she never saw it, she'd rather see these characters hugging and kissing while the ones she doesn't like do nothing.
Fun fact: I used to be one of those "Steven Universe is bad even though I never watched it" guys. You know, teenagers and young adults appalled that anyone younger than them could like newer stuff.
Then I saw Lily's videos on it and RWBY. The one on RWBY was so bad I realized I was being needlessly negative about SU.
(Still haven't watched more than a couple episodes, though, it didn't stir my interest that much.)
you should watch it through! after the first half of season 1 it really picks up
@souplife1 I'm currently going through Power Rangers and the last two Yu-Gi-Oh series, so I'm kinda busy on that front, but I might add it to the schedule
You definitely get points for at least giving it a chance. Speaking as someone who watched during the original airings and personally ended up with a strong connection to the show even to this day, I can definitely understand it falling outside of people's interest or tastes. It does feel like the reads that Lilly gave to the show (especially those that would be more 'speculative' as to what they mean/represent) definitely gave people the wrong impression IMO and likely pushed a lot of people away that'd otherwise give it a chance.
And that’s okay, as someone who really likes the show~
Thank you for giving it a try!
I watched it I know how bad it gets because I got Stockholm syndromed into watching it all, and I regret it.
The show is very good at being good at making you think it gets better, it doesn't. :(
it feels so weird to me as a nonbinary person that lily exclusively uses she/her pronouns for rebecca sugar and calls them 'becky'. something about it just reads like she's pushing out sugar's nonbinary identity as an insult? it's giving transphobia ironically lmao.
also love how most of lily's suggestions for how to improve the episodes of a magical action adventure show is "what if every episode was one character sitting in the literal void of space thinking thoughts with no music or fun animation. just sitting and thinking."
riveting concepts like that must be why she's such a best-selling and widely known writer!
Lily is *insanely* transphobic to people she doesn't like, among other things. It's kinda harrowing, if you think about it for like 5 seconds.
I mean, it *could* work, but you'd have to be really good with dialogue,visuals and still it could end up tiring and always seeming the same.
Plus we'd miss things like Rose's video to Steven and it wouldn't be realistic to have all the characters sitting in a void just thinking.
And *even* if it does work, there's nothing wrong with making a magical adventure series, every creator sets their own rules.
the comment under this (for me) is literally discussing lily's hatred of "filler" episodes 😭 likewise, i recall lily ranting for a good chunk of her original steven universe video about how she finds SU's episode structure to be disjointed and wanted for each episode in every arc to come right after the other.
isd she just takes one look at media, decides she doesnt like the look of it, watches it while half asleep and then makes up random nitpicks to justify her hatred of it the morning after
@zaddyfaye6880 from what I learned, her scrips are usually a stream of consciousness, with no second drafts or whatever. She literally says things on the spot without restructuring her words or ideas up to make sense.
Thank you so much for bringing this up. It drives me absolutely nuts. As you said, it's incredibly disrespectful and demeaning, and specifically seems to attack or at least ignore that Sugar is non-binary. Also "Becky" as an insult is quite racialized, implying that Sugar is a dopey, stupid, clueless white girl...but Sugar is openly Jewish.
The fact that Lily is angry that the MAIN CHARACTER, the TITULAR CHARACTER, is… in the show that revolves around HIM is beyond ridiculous. The plot of the show would not have happened if it weren’t for someone DIRECTLY CONNECTED TO STEVEN.
You do know that nothing is above criticism right?
Every choice including fundamental design choices should be questioned, especially when they hurt the show.
If something is above criticism it needs to be torn down like the tyrants of old.
You can have a titular character without limiting the POV to exclusively that character alone.
For example: Literally every work of fiction with a titular character ever.
@@recycledwaste8737but it’s not a flaw of the show that has a limited pov as this videos points out a bunch of good media does this
@@Yami-mugoni613 While it's true that having a singular POV isn't inherently a flaw, I'd argue it isn't ideal for a story like Steven Universe.
The show has a lot of world building and a large cast of (often quite literally) colorful characters. Both of which could've been explored more thoroughly with a wider variety of POVs.
Don't get me wrong, it's a brilliant show as-is, but it's true potential wasn't fully explored; and I think that's a shame.
@@recycledwaste8737It's not ideal for audience DESIRE for the story to be more about adventure and exploring the worldbuilding. Literally every fantasy world, by design, should be more vast than the main characters. That is not in and of itself a justification to over-bloat the story into being more than what the intention is. (Especially considering that the story being about anyone else would also make the show a lot gayer and, whoopies, it just got declined renewal for wanting a lesbian wedding. Let's just keep acting like it's Sugar's fault for designing as conventional of an outer layer to her story as possible, instead of acknowledging she was doing the best she could with the constraints she had.)
2:50:00 as a femme presenting nonbinary person I really enjoyed Stevonnie's character but at the same time I understand Lily's argument here to a extent.
A nonbinary person that presents either femme or masc can easily be passed as a cis binary person and erase the representation through either a dub, subtitles, or even the same series itself if pressured enough. It also doesn't help that most of the time this representations often falls under the femme side, pushing aside masc or amab nonbinary people- BUT THIS ISN'T THE POINT I WANT TO MAKE HERE
What I really want to point out is that Stevonnie is still very decent representation for the show's time. Rebecca probably had to fight for the producers to let her give Stevonnie neutral pronouns and used a bunch of loopholes from their own show. Loopholes that actually make their design make sense. How the gems are femme presenting most of the time, how Stevonnie is technically two people and 'they' is used in plural form, how those two people are a boy and a girl so it's still very fair to say that Stevonnie falls in a grey area, etc.
SU has become a blueprint on LGBT representation in media, in kids media specifically. Was it always good? Well nothing is perfect, specially when you have a big industry against you, but we can't deny the immense push that Rebecca Sugar and the crewniverse managed to give to the higher ups and thus allowed for much more representation to be allowed in many forms
Stevonnie was the first introduction to any kind of nb identity for a lot of ppl (at least they were for me lol), and looking back from 4 years of being nb myself Stevonnie is still pretty darn good as representation! Rebecca and co really pushed to have the character even referred to as such, and the fact that lily just dismisses all of that work just bc she didn't personally like stevonnie's handling is so frustrating
I don’t really think that Lily idea making that point sadly besides is Lily saying fem nb don’t exist or shouldn’t represented
lily: “character dialogue/interactions are important”
also lily: * skips all pokemon story and dialogue* 😂
15:42
Also Eyeball was an essential part in the trial on Homeworld in S5. The reason why the Diamonds believe that Steven has Rose’s gem is because of Eyeball’s testimony and that information came from Steven revealing he was Rose in “Bubbled”. So while the episode would have technically worked without Eyeball, it wouldn’t have worked for continuity in S5.
It's crazy how Lily has 3 hour long videos disproving her points for every single video she's ever made. Unholy levels of failing to improve
Everything except her owl house videos y’all lily bashers be really slacking lol but no but seriously her opinions are ass
There are so many response videos that are HOURS long taking everything Lily says apart. There's just so much BS to shift through and the people that do it, are extremely patient, calculated and talented for keeping us entertained through the whole thing that is otherwise unbearable.
But what Ive learned from all of them, is that Lily is genuinely stupid. If she likes it, is must be good, if she doesn't it's terribly evil and should not exist and if you like what she doesn't or criticize her, your an actual nazi/communist (insert more hyperbolic 'isms' in there.)
@@SpacemanTheo yeah but still no response on her owl house videos besides like one guy
@ but does there need to be one when it will boil down to ‘she doesn’t get plot or characters because she’s willfully and maliciously ignorant and/or just that stupid.’ Eventually everything is said and every creator just feels like they’re beating a dead horse. Same shit, just different paint when it comes to Lily.
@@AJedits65I've considered making responses to her Owl House takes (because not only are they proof that she's a horrid critic, but they're one of the main reasons I believe she uses her takes to prime potential new targets from her audience), but I don't know if I have that kind of patience.
I love how Lily keeps accusing Sugar of “inserting her f3tishes” into everything when that’s literally all Lily does. Projection much?
I feel like Lilly has a problem with coming to terms the shows she watches are kids' shows. Now, nothing wrong with watching and liking those and being in a fandom and all that...but at the end of the day one needs to realize who the target audience is. We all go through different stages of development and we have, at one point found out that certain things are not appropriate at certain stage. Kids shows are going to be less violent and have clearer morals. Flaws the characters have are gonna be different. You can't go into a show aimed at 10 year olds or younger and expect Arcane or Game of Thrones.
One thing is mature and another is violent or crude I believe
Avatar The Last Airbender is a very mature show,it treats its audience as actual people with brains... Because kids are actual people with brains
I mean, Dragon Ball Z is technically a kids show and Transformers Cybertron, from 2005 had its big bad impaled with a sword on screen.
I feel like even outside of the fact that this is a kid's show, Steven Universe did not want to do certain things, like kill the Diamonds. I just don't think that was a part of the story and themes they were trying to communicate
@@nessie-from-earthbound1601this is very important to remember, Just because a show doesn't go in the direction you want, doesn't mean it's bad
stages of development?
Is Stockholm syndrome one of those?
cause that is what I got from steven universe, and is part of why I hate it.
I’ll be so real, even if Lily’s take on Stevonnie was right, and they WERE just “a poor-excuse for nonbinary representation” because they start off as more fem-leaning and presenting, THAT STILL DOESN’T MAKE THEM BAD NONBINARY REPRESENTATION.
(From the perspective of someone who is gender nonconforming both in my presentation and my actual identity, and has identified as such for a bit over half of my life now:)
Nonbinary is an umbrella term the same way queer, trans, and asexuality are. Some people identify as just the umbrella term (I, for example, identify as queer rather than a more specific label), and some wouldn’t refer to themselves with the umbrella term at all (For example, a nonbinary or genderfluid person who doesn’t consider themself trans, an agender person who doesn’t consider themself nonbinary, or a demisexual person who doesn’t consider themself asexual).
All this to say, “nonbinary” does not describe or name a single experience or identity. Nonbinary people don’t owe anyone androgyny to any degree. Someone who is entirely feminine-presenting or masculine-presenting can still be nonbinary, because gender doesn’t automatically equate with the way one expresses themself. In fact, I would go as far to say that MOST nonbinary individuals don’t present as fully androgynous most of the time, either because they don’t always want to or because it’s just kind of hard and takes a lot of effort to do constantly. Nearly all of my closest friends fit under the nonbinary umbrella; All but one of them present themselves in a more feminine manner, and the one leftover presents more masculine, while I present androgynous. That doesn’t make any of them suddenly not nonbinary.
Yes, nonbinary representation is very important, and it is easier to tell that someone is nonbinary when they present androgynously. But, that doesn’t mean we should be pushing for that to be the only kind of nonbinary representation. It is a disservice to the nonbinary community to remove all nuance from the equation when representing them in media, just as it would be to remove nuance in the representation of ANY community. To call nonbinary characters that aren’t androgynous presenting “bad” or “incorrect” representation is to just harm the community. Representation for androgynous nonbinary people is important and needed, but that doesn’t make it wrong to portray feminine- and masculine-leaning nonbinary characters too.
I gotta admit, being a transmasc nonbinary person with DD's and no desire for top surgery (even if I did, the recovery process would be nearly impossible for me in my current situation), that stung a lot. Especially since I genuinely like wearing feminine clothing at times, like fishnet stockings and sundresses; doesn't make me "girl lite."
She actually just hates nonbinary people (can’t be assed to gender her nonbinary critics and uses she or it pronouns) and thinks Steven should have been a woman and was uncomfortable with Steven-Gem fusions because they weren’t pretty woman
honestly im begging for more nonbinary characters that arent androgynous. or at least a different KINDS of androgynous than the one we always seem to get. i mean thats the whole point of being nonbinary, its not binary, you dont have to be feminine, masculine or androgynous. of course, same with all genders. its just very odd for a trans person to have this mindset to me, it harms everyone by continuing to push the idea that genders have to look a certain way
for real. i'm a pretty feminine person in my voice and preferred body whilst being agender, stevonnie quite literally represents me as a nonbinary person. "bad nonbinary rep" my ass.
Good video, but you missed the part where Lily brings up the real life suicide of a trans teenager just to say "show about gay space rocks bad".
If it’s what I think it is the fans are at fault and were called out by the crewniverse
@@simsgirlgemif you’re talking about the tumblr artist who drew rose skinny, no it was not them.
@@Frostingsalad damnit I was hoping it was to avoid thinking about sharing a fandom with awful people
@ I’m sure she’s mentioned it in other videos, but yeah no it was an image of someone who was completely unrelated to Steven universe.
I am so relieved to find this video! I've been saying for a while that Lily Orchard is not only a bad critic, but actively uses her media takes as a means of priming her young audience, and you've explained that far better than I could!
Also, just FYI, Shiloh (formerly Patchwork Heart) wasn't a minor when ToonKritic abused him; he was 20 when they met. That said, it is true that TK abused Shiloh verbally, constantly misgendered him, and manipulated them into giving him free art assets, all while pretending to be his friend. Also, Shiloh uses he/they/it pronouns; I noticed you called them "she" at one point.
The main character of Doctor Who isn’t called Doctor Who. He’s just called the Doctor
Yeah that was my mistake! I apologize for that
@@FreezingClimber He can be called either. Classic series fans tend to lean towards doctor who.
Even the end credits would call him Doctor Who!
You're wrong his name is John Doctor Who.
While they are most commonly referred to as just the doctor. On multiple occasions it is told the doctor is called Doctor Who though his name being Doctor Who is mainly referred to in classic who and more so in the early Doctors. But it isn’t just in classic with the 12th Doctor having an exchange with Missy and Bill asks “Why’s you call yourself Doctor Who.” And she says “And also it’s his name.”
the utena section of this video is making me lose my mind. i understand why she misunderstands utena- it’s genuinely a very dense work that can be tough to decode. but to misconstrue it just as badly as she does… i shouldn’t be shocked but i am
She is also only watched the Dub which isn't exactly a great one.
She already disrespected Korra and Steven, now I’m getting Utena shade. lily will never bloom, she will remain trapped in her egg. I can’t tell if she watch the show or purposely being obtuse
Lily does that with every show or movie anime or otherwise.
Lily has stated many times that she *hates* Utena and still to this day mischaracterizes the entire show. A while back she made a video ranking all the anime she's ever watched (it's like 10 shows) and Utena was listed as the worst. Hamtaro (an anime made for preschoolers) was apparently the best anime she's ever seen. 🙄
@@MissJasmine305 Lily also said that 4kids entertainment made the best anime dubs.
Lily is a horrible person for many reasons other than her bad SU takes, but I hope this video gets seen a lot so people can see some actual criticism of her opinions.
True these types of people like drake jojo complain about so-called Total whiplash, happy-go-lucky series turned dark Despite always been the case In the early 2000s drake jojo Idiotic twitter takes Are basically the same thing as lily
@@supergamerboy1177 what?
I think lily’s sister ,Courtney, is right when she said people should pay attention to the fact she’s a child predator(and Courtney is one of her victims) instead of her cringe opinions on Steven universe
True but that requires a lot of care and attention that some aren’t able to handle
I hate her calling rebecca sugar becky
It just has this air of presumption to it. Like when a villain in a movie has that special nickname for the protagonist that they consistently use as a flex of disrespect.
Liked how much more in depth this video was than the cut down uploaded initial stream Sai did on it. I also think the final section does a good job at tying together her horrific behaviour with her videos too.
I'd like to add to the discussion of if the Diamonds are fascists or not by adding one aspect that the basically debunks any reason a person could give to say that they are fascists, Homeworld has no economic system. Let me explain as a person that studies history:
Fascism isn't just a regressive ideology made to make people's lives worse, it's also an ideology that exists to protect capitalism when it reaches a social-political-economic crisis and it does that by redirecting problems that are caused by capitalism on anything other than it so the working class cannot organize against it. Take the Nazi rise to power as an example: Germany was in a terrible economical crisis after WW1 ended, anti-capitalist moviments like anarchism and communism were getting bigger because the Social-Democracy of the Weimar-Republic wasn't enough to solve the people's problems such as poverty, hunger, unemployment and homelessness, what the Nazis did was tricking the german working class into believing that they were on their side and it wasn't capitalism's fault that things weren't working well, it's the jews, the romani, the communists fault (That's also the reason why there's socialism on the Nazi Party name, it's porpusefully used to trick workers into being part of the cause). What followed after that outside of multiple crimes against humanity were a series privatizations of state-owned companies and the enrichment of the bourgeois ruling class of the time.
With that aspect of fascism in mind, it's absolutely impossible to make the connection between the two, you can make very superficial comparisons like Lily does on her videos but that's what they are, superficial comparisons, because when you actually stop to think about how Homeworld works you end up realizing that they have a lot more in common with a factory than an actual government, the act of them going from planet to planet, making colonies to colect their resources to make more gems and expanding it's a completely axiomatic one, they are all spinning the wheel that makes their society work because the wheel needs to be spinned in order for their existence to be justified, because again, Gems don't function the same way humans do
You make a good point, but I think it can reasonably be interpreted that homeworld's norms and operations are analogous to capitalism. Homeworld produces efficient workers that are designated into one role, and solely tasked with carrying out the tasks of that role. They are supposed to be robotic in their efficiency. Homeworld colonizes other planets to gain more resources for production, like how colonization is done for the sake of gaining more capital and workers to exploit. A good real life example right now is the DRC, which due to colonization and imperialism, is exploited for its cobalt and coltan, used for the production of electronic devices. On the factory comparison, factories became widespread due to industrialization, which was the result of capitalism. Factories and capitalism are deeply intertwined because factories make production cheap and efficient, furthering the acquisition of capital.
Even if there's no money, it's clear homeworld runs on the idea of production and needs constant resources for that production, so they can expand indefinitely. That's very similar to capitalism. Especially since the production homeworld runs on is inherently exploitative by treating gems more as robots when they have emotions and struggles. The diamonds don't engage in wage theft, but they take autonomy away from their workers. I would argue it's still a form of capitalism.
This video was excellent. As someone that initially just seeing the reception of Lily's SU video made them feel awkward and even ashamed of SU, she truly is a... fascinating person, in the worst sense. A person who refuses to grow up, while being annoyed at people not moving on from her past actions. Someone so entitled and manipulative, that keeps trying to sweep it all under the rug, because what other option there is, other than owning up to her mistakes and horrible actions, something she will NEVER admit (with few exceptions). While I've been going on this rabbit hole of Lily Orchard for a bit now, this video is not only one of the most complete but at the same time charming and entertaining while keeping the more sensitive topic in a serious tone.
I guess it's only been a day, but I'm pretty surprised this video doesn't have as many likes as I thought! Of course, I'm pretty sure that will change soon enough...
Three hours of dunking on Lily Orchard and her worse than abysmal opinions? Hell yeah I’ve got nothing better to do at four in the morning.
The my pearl line is a mimic of how people say "my girl". Like its not maid/slave ownership its pride
Lily's hatred for SU feels like when I was a kid and I liked a 'cringey' movie, videogame or tv show and I would openly hate on it in front of my family but would secretly engage in the fandom because I really liked said media... except I was 8 when I did this and Lily was grown.
1:03:39 truly one of the most braindead critiques of Korra, I don't understand how someone can have such terrible media comprehension and analysis skills
Would it help to know that Lily was a terrible student at school with reading being her worst subject, and possibly given passing grades by teachers because they didn't want to put up with Lily for another year?
I saw your video on lapis 6 months ago & the reason why your content was captivating is because you didn't simply slandered lily & call it a day you debunked her lies & gave a thoughtful well documented analysis on the subject itself that gave me a totally new perspective on lapis's character arc that i didn't put my finger on back then so keep up the positive influence you have because it's valuable.
I've only heard of this person now and then, and I never watched a video. But every time Lilly is brought up, she's just so damn miserable and doesn't seem to understand anything she brings up.
She's that person who over reacts to everything and is unreasonably upset. You have to walk on eggshells around them because you're scared they'll blow up on you.
I don't know why or how people still talk about this person when they don't seem like they'll change or have anything of value to add.
I think part of it is how impactful her original Steven Universe video was, since it did and still does contribute to bad faith takes about Steven Universe, part of it is because she never stops bringing it up and that it's become the poster child for her inability to analyze media period, and part of it is because her media takes might be things people feel she can actually criticize her on. Basically, she denies all the stuff talked about at the end whenever it's brought up, but people can always analyze the videos she puts out, so it's a way for people to get on her ass without her being able to go "nuh-uh" as easily
I don’t think it was until Lily’s SU videos that I genuinely hated an online personality. She calls herself a critic, but all I see is a person who can’t be bothered to explain herself for her nonsensical claims, and have the worst and accusatory takeaways all wrapped in an ugly bow of bad faith.
I’d be completely fine with a couple of bad opinions, but to go as far as to assume the intentions of a creator whose work changed my life as fucking racist made me gave up on trying to understand what was clearly a bad analysis.
As someone who’s a huge fan of Steven Universe I feel like her Steven Universe videos has rubbed me the wrong way.
Sure Steven Universe is flawed but in the end it’s a children that teaches school age children mental health, support from love ones and love in general. Lily doesn’t realize that children are humans with brains not mindless fools who never grow mature enough like Lily has, she thinks she’s mature but in reality she has a mind of a 6 year old.
Lily’s using media takes is her way of praying on minor so she can have her way with them and when she was caught red handed she twist the story around just to make her the victim while everyone is the abuser.
If she really wants her past to go away she needs to leave the internet and turn herself into the police at all cost
Not at all. Here's the thing, before this whole Steven Universe video, she actually liked it. So was with MLP and Korra. But then MLP started to expand its worldbuilding, SU and Korra talking about forgiveness and such, etc., and all of a sudden, Lily now has complete disdain with these shows. So much so that she would rather hate on them than to actually wonder why she liked the show in the first place.
And why is that you ask? Because she wants to be stuck with her favorite characters kissing eachother.
Not hard since Lily's wrong about everything.
Eugh-! I'm on 59:27 and love your response so far and agree with the things that you say! But I'll stop here for at least a moment . After knowing what Lily did to her younger sibling I just can't- I can't with this moment.
Great video! I'll watch it later after washing off this icky sensation. Take care everyone!
Yeah :/
Commenting to help with the algorithm, least I can do when giving Lily my views back when I was a more naive lad.
I honestly believe lily just hates steven universe and rebecca so much because they are successful and are beloved while her work isn't; like i know its a cop-out to go "oh you're just jealous because that person is successful", but the way lily just shows so much contempt for rebecca as a person and SU as a "reflection" of rebecca and how lily seems to tackle similar topics as SU that i just cant help but feel as though Lily is just upset that a popular show is doing what she wants to do with her art and so she hate trains on it and makes bad-faith ad hominem arguments about rebecca to undermine them
The way she says Becky is so condescending
I've heard that Lily's ex-wife Lizzy Orchard was a big fan of the show, and Lily is being unbelievably petty about her divorce by constantly slandering the show Lizzy loved so much.
To me, it's more that she liked the show, she would ship characters and such, yet saw the Bismuth episode and bam, something triggered in her head.
She has such a creepy obsession with Rebecca Sugar…they doesn’t know you lily
Like, does she think Rebecca Sugar is the only one responsible for the show?? Rebecca Sugar is the show's creator and has oversight on most things, yes, but so many other people work on the show?? And disliking a piece of media does NOT mean you have to hate its creator but Lily REALLY seems to hate Rebecca.
I’ve never heard someone pack so much disdain into the pronunciation of “Becky” who wasn’t trying to deadname them.
Considering that Lily constantly misgenders Sugar, who is nonbinary, it feels like Lily is trying to use Becky as a pseudo-deadname
@@stroodleloodle2909 Sugar does go by both She/Her and They/Them so not technically misgedering though Lily realy hates her for reasons i'll never understand
I really do get tired of lily bringing up KH cause from what we learned from another youtuber bringing it up but lily doesn't actually understand KH and only says stuff that she THINKS happens cause she actually skips alot of cutscenes in the game and even skips whole games.
Sometimes it's a little hard being a KH fan because so many people don't take it seriously. And it's even worse when Lily is out there, loudly associating herself with it.
@@PTp1ranhatrue, I mean, take any scene from Kingdom Hearts out of context and you will end up laughing a lot.
Lily has the media literacy of a 6th grader. She also can’t make up her mind! Does she want the show to only focus on Steven? Or only focus on everyone else?
Like c’mon, I started watching Steven universe at around age 13. Yet I understood that there was a point to watching Steven and the way he impacts his friends. And viceversa. I didn’t know what the point was in exact words cus I was a kid.
But this is a fully grown woman who is still constantly screaming about kids shows being evil. Like I don’t think we watched the same show with how oddly wrong her recap of events is.
"Steven Universe is conservative propaganda" is something I never thought I'd hear.
I watched SU for the first time in 2024, and I loved how complex it was. I genuinely didn’t understand the criticisms bc all that was said was that a lot of the gems were “toxic,” like YEAH, THATS THE POINT!!!! WE ARE MESSY BEINGS! THINGS GET UGLY SOMETIMES! SPINEL WAS A VICTIM BUT PROCEEDED TO HURT OTHERS! She’s not a saint, but that’s why she was so great to see! She even said so herself!
Btw Lilly made a mlp fanfic about scootaloo being… abused by rainbow dash and more
I will be watching this as background noise and possibly using this to sleep. Great content, keep it up.
Excellent video! I was a Steven universe fan around the time and the impact of Orchid’s video hit me personally, I’m tempted to peruse financial compensation lol. Thanks for making it, it’s also doubles as a good soundtrack to last minute holiday ahopping
i remember when lilys video came out it was just a horrible influence for me to watch because it made me worried and afraid i liked a show as a kid that was teaching me "bad things". the only "technically" correct criticism she made on su is that, the show doesn't do a lot of hand holding when handling the more distressing topics, like toxic relationships and such, but honestly that's kinda the charm to it, watching it now as an adult, it is so much easier to understand the harsher topics and it makes more sense. children shows aren't always lessons where things are taught to the child step by step, some are just, non-adult themed artistic pieces that are supposed to be an experience and grows with you as you get older, and i think that's more of what su was. lily apparently expected it to be the "here's an apple. here's what an apple is" type of kids show and ran with assumptions through that.
i think that's why it influenced me so much, her video. she presents herself as though she's concerned, that if there's isn't any specific or direct guidence towards these themes, than children will be led astray and be brainwashed into some agenda. and as a kid i took that concern as genuine. now as an adult i just see someone who's really pissed that a show managed to work so well despite not using all of the methods of writing she personally found superior.
57:52 That is the point of a musical number Especially in A musical series in music theatre A song is supposed to drive the plot forward But also telling The audience What's the Characters are feeling
Hello, commenting for the algorythm!
This video fucks and i really enjoy your presentation style! The drawings are really cute, plus props for the music choices, i yippied when i heard mad rat dead ost
In regards to its content itself
I used to be a steven universe hater back in the day. Having some bad ex friends who were fans of it didnt help much. I used to watch some videos critical of the show as catharsis then
Im glad the old me is being proven wrong by people re examining the show and showing how much those videos misrepresent the show.
The Utena slander is what always gets me. One of the most critically acclaimed and influential shows in the last 30 years with hundreds of thousands (if not millions if we throw in all the youtubers who talk about it) of words worth of literature written on it explaining WHY it's a masterpiece. And Lily didn't get it on the first watch and therefore assumed it was bad, but one of the earliest things everybody learns about Utena is that NOBODY understands it on a first watch. That's part of the fun: unpacking the contents and piecing together the puzzle.
Side note, I know she said it as a one-off joke, but if Utena was in Kingdom Hearts I would absolutely lose my shit in sheer joy.
If Bismuth got her way she would have ended like just like D-16/Megatron in Transformers One.
Yeah
I think Rose being/formerly being Pink Diamond gave her special insight that many “upper crust” Gems were just as brainwashed into the system as anyone else. Instead of trying to bring those ranks of Gems around to Rose’s cause and reform them, Bismuth just wanted to shatter them
@@CGFillertext also Pink did go with the shatter route (abliet faking it) and we saw how that turned out.... she probably wouldn't have done that Bismith hadn't put the idea in her head
HOW DO YOU NOT HAVE MORE SUBSCRIBERS, this is extremely well edited and well spoken. One of the best Video Essays on Steven Universe ive seen in a while-
I can say most if Lily's video are just as terrible if not more so than the SU video. Especially when she keeps shelling out her fanfics as better than the material she's criticizing. Which she then pretended didn't existed like Stalkholme or Scars.
45:22: Pearls absolutely are slaves though. Not because they're forced to follow certain roles, but because they're the only gems who are seen as property and as having "owners." A key aspect of slavery is that the enslaved are seen as property and not people and this separates Pearls from other gems who are depicted more like members of a military
Not necessarily your fault, but the word filler in the video is incorrectly used by you and lily, filler is especificaly used when the studio does something to stretch time, like a anime original episode or arc, or anime original scenes, just to give a chance for the original material to continue, so by definition, nothing mentioned in steven universe is filler, just non plot important episodes, again, not your fault, just throught that it would be worth bringing up, cool video btw
Also Rebecca Sugar wasn’t the only one making the show.
Just wanted to say congratulations on this video getting to 40,000 views within 3 weeks. It's really well done and I enjoy your SU response videos in general, especially the one discussing Bismuth where you point out that the theme is about punitive versus restorative justice, not "fighting always makes you as bad as the oppressor" (which unfortunately both people who agree with Lily AND people who disagree with her/like that theme think SU is about, missing both the main topic in the show and also removing all nuance from an actual real world conversation). I know you said this would be your last video on Lily, but if you make more videos on SU in general in the future, I'll definitely keep a look out
I never watch lily orchard back when she was at her peak, but i do recall someone on my discord said fusion is sex and claim the show is disgusting because of it. That is until a friend of mind clears the air and explains to me what fusion really meant. It shows how influential Lily is back then when someone outside the loop of su heard that.
To me i don't think she care if her take make su look worse than it really is, she don't care if her take will discourage other from makeing more nuance stories...or how her influence will make executives tight up creative restrictions. All because she wanted control.
She hates what she doesn't understand, and she might either conquer it...or destroy it but never learn from it.
If i can speculate Lily's mind for a bit, i will say she see the world as winner and losers. With the winner exploiting the loser. She want to be the winner so badly but never bother the rules of the game...she rather want to destroy the table so she said she won.
It is not just that Lily is wrong for the 10th time, is that Lily is tremendously, horribly, at a cosmic level wrong for the 1000th time while criminalizing completely regular people in the process
also while being a criminal herself, for literally no other reason than pure spite, that she convinced herself that she does it for social justice
This was the first video of yours I was recommended and I'm very impressed by your editing and thoroughness. Though you call yourself Freezing Climber, if you keep making dissections and analyses like this, you'll be on fire in a few months.
I think one of the most egregious mischaracterizations Lily ever had about SU was to say Garnet of all people had no depth. Absolutely fucking baffling that she could even think that.
lily talk for 4 seconds without mentioning she's 'been abused' challenge impossible. that has nothing to do with the video nor does it excuse her actions or attitude - there's zero reason to bring it up other than 'weh weh feel bad for me i'm too baby to be held accountable'. it just comes off as inappropriate rumination and a sad attempt at getting pity, which is ineffective to an audience who have also been abused and don't treat everyone around them like trash or constantly talk about their abuse lmao.
It's because Lily thinks abuse victims can't do any mistakes, because going against that would require her to look back at her own actions. She also calls any character she likes an "abuse victim". She likes Jasper, so she must be a perfect angel "abuse victim", and Lapis must be the abuser.
I'll never let it slide that I fell for her initial video and even left a favorable comment, before coming to my senses and deleting it, realizing she was completely off the mark.
People like Lily are obstinate to a fault. She "knows" she's right, even if reality itself would beg to differ. If the choice between Heaven and Hell came down to Lily admitting she's wrong, then you'd best believe she'll walk backwards into Hell. There's really nothing that can be done for her, because she doesn't want good faith. She doesn't want help. She doesn't want to understand. She's in her own fantasy world. I swear to you she's almost a Persona 5 villain. Eventually all of this is going to catch up to her in a bad way, and she'll be left flailing in the wreckage, blaming everyone but herself, before disappearing for good.
It's already happening. Why do you think this video and many more happened in the first place?
@@WokioWolfy You'd be surprised how many people will keep trucking even when their reputation is barreling downhill. A lot of times people will say it's so over for someone, but they'll persist and stick around.
It's not over for Lily until she's reached utter desolation.
Its INSANE to me that lily hates SU, but loves KH when their themes have VERY clear similarities. Fuck, i even can make a comparision between sora and steven.
Sorry for the tangent, but pliz play kingdom hearts (i know lily its VERY un-trustworthy person, but a broken clock can sometimes give the right hour), it's a great ass story and i would want more ppl to experience/enjoy it.
I agree, currently playing KH2 and the story is so interesting, the characters feel oddly real, especially in COM.
Ugh! To this day, i hate the fact that Lily calls Rebecca Sugar "Becky", something about it just feels icky 😒
I think she has a huge parasocial relationship with them. She thinks she knows them. She thinks they’re her sworn enemy.
SHES FIGHTING WITH A WALL. It’s weird as all hell
I think she has a huge parasocial relationship with them. She thinks she knows them. She thinks they’re her sworn enemy.
SHES FIGHTING WITH A WALL. It’s weird as all hell
I love this video already! Fair warning, Lily is on a copyright and ranting rampage about anyone. I feel like you already know, but just in case...
I don't go looking into su critical corners, but the Karkat music for this essay is A+
20:55 funny, it's always "If this was a solo character episode it would be better" but like, it wouldn't. If you want a serialized show where the characters are alone and thinking to themselves, then watch adult or serialized shows/dramas. This is a show for 10 year olds and under for crying out loud, you are a grown ass woman Lily, this show isn't for you.
Did anyone else notice that Lily Orchard's comments about the musical numbers kind of come across as her not understanding the point of musicals in general instead of criticizing the show specifically?
1:02:39 although i know she won't see this message, i'd like to, as a brazilian, kindly ask lily to never ever mention brazil again.
I can’t get over how you said Cartoonshi over Lily Orchard I was not prepared for that 😭
Is the therapist meant to be a nod to columbo in the way they talk? I found the thought funny hahaha.
Lets be honest here the diamonds are very, complicated characters.
And if anything the diamonds are more like feudal kings or rather queens, that only really thought of what's right for their people instead of what their people want or what harm they're causing to their people, and when they lost pink due to a misunderstanding a lot of their actions turned from trying to do whats best into doing things out of pure grief and anger towards someone who "wronged them" and it took steven having to shatter their world view in order to help them become better gems, and especially better rulers, or at least the better rulers and parents steven at least wants to see
I still hate her takes about Stevonnie's design because Stevonnie is good enby rep. And the episode they debut in does represent what puberty is like for a lot of non-white afabs out there. Myself included. Sorry for being an early bloomer, Lily. And sorry for not being androgynous enough to your standards.
I'm convinced Lily deliberately stirs the pot for cheap rage bait.
That channel of hers is dying a very painful decline. Even her handful of fans are too scared to speak to her.
i cant believe you have less than 1k subs. this is such a well formulated argument. thank you so much for this
about steven being present in all scenes.
for me it's a story telling method, it's not a flaw but a choice, I don't see what's wrong with it
Nice Persona references!
Honestly what I get out of Lilly’s video more than anything is that she’s extremely jealous, demeaning, and bitter about Rebecca Sugars success with her show 🤷♀️
I only watched the first seven minutes of this video right now, and I thought to myself "Those poses are very danganronpa", abd then you mention it like 10 seconds later
Me hearing lily complain about a show she refuses to understand: OH MY GOD SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP
Hey not to miss the forest for the trees but the mashup at the begining was amazing I wonder if there will be a full version?
Hehehe nice Celeste astetic you got there. I just got the deluxe edition for switch and am loving it. I’m absolutely going to use the jounal for ace attorney
Small thing cuz i need to finish the video: I like the danganronpa inspired posing.
Also, I just started hearing Klaus Veen music in the video and I'm all for it.
1:02:40 hearing gringos say capoeira wrong is always weird, but hearing she say it wrong and trying to use it to make a point feels really really bad... Ugh I hate it
2:33:55 and did she really compared Fallout3 with Baldurs gate 3? Like, damn...
2:05 what was that first mash up song?
Stayed gone from hazbin hotel.
@@Hacimheasanam no, it's like a mash up with other songs, using that song but it also had parts of had it coming from chicago and it turns into Philistine from No More Heroes 2.
@@fran_valz oh yeah your right cool
1:09:45 Ok that actually makes me super angry. As someone raised by an insanely fatphobic mother, having Pink (An abused AuDHD Child) being "skinny" to reflect how she is abused (mentally, physically, and emotionally) and forced to be "skinny" (since gems are basically light projections and can look any way they want) because Diamonds must be "perfect" and then later, after she escapes her abuse and abusers, she lives a healthier life and that is reflected by a bigger body type! That is so important to me as someone who greatly struggles to put on any weight! And Lily making light of it and saying that visual storytelling like that is a problem seriously upsets me.
2:03:20 I called that on my Tumblr when I first saw Lily’s definition and how oddly it was
i've never seen this show. everything i know about it is from how orchard is painfully wrong about it videos. lol.
Lorch complains about anime references in STEVEN UNIVERSE, yet a show she praised constantly CRAIG OF THE CREEK also has anime references too. The following example Spackle Cadet is a magical girl, the Ninja Kids and Elder of the Creek are weebs, Big Time Bobby is referencing DRAGONBALL’s Super Saiyan form, Bring-Out Your Beast both the card game and the episode involving it is referencing YU-GI-OH, TWO PIECE = ONE PIECE, SLIDE THE FERRET = SONIC THE HEDGEHOG, and Otherside Kingdom/Culture and the Heart of the Forest is based entirely on the in universe anime classic HARU: KING OF THE FOREST which I presume is based on classic anime shows and Ghibli movies.
Part way through the video and I have nothing to say other than I love the Doctor Who shoutout lol
I admire you for being very calm during this video!
It contrasts Lily's terminal rage and -I don't blame Lily critics for this,I have yet to see one not get a little frustrated-it might make your opinions hold more weight to Lily , although i doubt that due to Lily being Lily.