Thank you to all my subs who have hung in there with me over the last few months as I’ve worked away on this video… and finally it’s Here! With this breakdown being as long as it is, I encourage you to use the chapters to filter through to more exact moments should you so choose, and let me know in the comments what some other topics are that you might want to see me dive into in another video…. UPDATE PART 2 IS IN PROGRESS FOR TF4-5
Every time optimus goes on a rage bender its always because the decepticons did something thats just inexcusable. Especially dark of the moon. No wonder hes pissed when the Decepticons immediately terrorized Chicago when the Autobots left. I know he was like "i told you so" but he still came back to help. Hes not just pissed about the Decepticons being opportunisric but also at the humans, whod rather ally eith the Decepticons, the very same people who wanted them eradicated
@@theonlysaj It's probably the reason why he behaves the way he does. He only was "strong enough to be gentle" because the humans didn't give him this much of a headache. He became so jaded because right from the get-go, the humans did everything they can just to dunk on their heroes often for no good reason at all. Optimus was trying to advocate for the human race, believing they are capable of change, but he ended up being right on one regard...well, he and Ironhide were right. Humans have proven a primitive and violent species, no different to what the Transformers had become by that point. "Were we so different?"
People try and compare them all too easily when each has their own set of complex issues and histories that inevitably lead each character down different journeys of development.
It's all about the method. Optimus Prime is the Primary-Color Champion. He's the Captain America or Superman of Transformers. He's the leader. He's the levelheaded one. He's the father to his men. How many characters like that are screaming threats at their enemies while they tear them apart? That is the difference. There's nothing wrong with OP raging every once in a while, but it can't be in every movie in almost every battle. Narratively, it doesn't work.
@@chey6073 The difference is original Optimus is a children's show main character. Bayverse never tried to be a set of children's movies. Live action prime is a tried and tested marine shock trooper, not a voice box for life lessons
@@SatanicBarbeque If the audience describes Optimus Prime as “a tried and tested marine shock trooper”, that is a giant indicator that you’ve written Optimus Prime incorrectly. The only justification for that is if people call out OP for acting like a marine. Optimus Prime is the hopeful, optimistic beacon of hope for humanity and Transformers society. What you’ve described is the Wreckersor the Lambo Twins
@@SatanicBarbequewhy are people Ok with turning purehearted heroes like Superman and Optimus Prime into moralless, murderous assholes? Do they chronically hate themselves enough?
In the Bayformers comics, before the war, the Autobots used to be the Science Force that do some science and research to improve Cybertron while Decepticons were the Defense Force being the protectors of Cybertron from invaders. Hence why the Decepticons have superior weapons and numbers while the Autobots were always outgunned and outnumbered in most battles. It would be like the equivalent of the US military becoming warmongering lunatics that a bunch of civilians were trying to stand up against them by any means necessary.
Yup another great point! I didn’t bother diving into the comics despite all they add in terms of depth to the lore and characters but there’s also unfortunately a number of contradictions that mess up the timeline for the movies. This part though makes complete sense in terms of the Deceptacon versus the Autobots as military and civilians with the Autobots always being on their back foot
@@theonlysaj Indeed and that in the Bayformers comics, Ironhide used to be part of the Defense Force before defecting to Optimus and outright stated to Prime that the Science Force were not built for war as they're civilians but he is, hence he was one of the Autobots' formidable fighters who has actual military experience and firepower. Of course the Autobots would eventually become warriors in their own right after eons of conflict with the Decepticons, resorting to upgrading themselves with weapons (thanks to Wheeljack or Que) and having to play dirty to even the odds against their enemies' superior military might.
@yaboig187 no but I can’t say that surprises me knowing him 😂 That just does even more to kill the arguments of some of these people in the comments of this video arguing that the Decepticon‘s are the good guys and the Autobots are the oppressors
I like Bay’s take on prime, sure it could’ve had some better executions for the character’s arc, it still shows that Prime, despite all the hardships he’s been through, he is still willing to follow by his rules. I get annoyed when regular viewers or other transformers fans disregard the deeper meanings of this transformers world mostly because Michael bay directed them. Great video btw, really need more people to point these out.
@@theonlysajanother thing I noticed is that I don’t see anyone complaining about rise of the beast Optimus prime giving out death threats to scourge. Most of it is probs backed up by bee’s death…so bay prime can’t enact revenge after witnessing ratchet’s severed head being melted? Or there are complaints and I haven’t seen them.
@gojirae.l.h.9431 rise of the beasts Optimus actually fits a good bit of the criticism falsely pinned onto bayverse prime. ROTB is immediately cold towards humanity without care, and he completely allows his emotions to take over while fighting . While he grows by the end of the movie, he’s much more of a detraction from g1 than bayverse ever was in full context
@gojirae.l.h.9431 something else to note about rise of the beasts prime, is that he is never given any reason to be as cold as he is towards humanity off the jump. He literally couldn’t care less about them until being around Noah long enough to change his perspective. We also learned that he has been brutally hunting and executing all decepticons around the planet not bothering to take hostages even when crippling them and potentially being able to use them for a way to escape earth. There’s a lot more issues with ROTB primes setup compared to bayverse for sure
People are just too self centered and dull with morality to even understand prime. He's died, lost his friends, back stabbed by humans who've also killed some friends of his, betrayed by his own teacher, etc. And most of the time he goes for a quick kill. People seriously need to stop hating on prime because this is a different reality not everyone gets some sing along happy ending. It's dark, gritty, and prime is done. Honestly I feel for the man
I don’t consider OP an psychopath because doesn’t kill for fun usually when kills someone it’s out of rage and besides Skybound OP was also really brutal in the past
Yup Optimus is literally regretful and reminiscent when Megatron first dies, and is in a fit of rage after being resurrected because he’s literally on a time crunch to save the planet stopping space hitler the fallen😂 Even in DOTM he’s not happy after he kills sentinel and Megatron, actually looking disgusted by what he was forced to do
In my opinion, Bayverse Optimus is the definition of "Beware the fury of the patient man". Dude did nothing wrong. People forget that Optimus Prime isn't just a peacemaker or a diplomat, he's also a soldier. And you can only push someone like that so far before they become outwardly hostile towards you. Megatron and the Decepticons did so constantly, and Sentinel's betrayal and murder of Ironhide definitely didn't help. And then humanity decided to (EXTREMLY STUPIDLY I should add) betray the Autobots (like seriously, WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT CRAP? I'd understand if they were hunting down Decepticons only, but Autobots too?!). Seriously, anyone who thinks he's a psychopath for killing Decepticons, executing Sentinel, killing Megatron instead of making peace with him, and eventually coming to not trust humans after everything he went through are Decepticon sympathizers. They have to be. Edit: Forgot to add this before. Heart of a Prime.
Well said! They only argument for him being a “psychopath” relies on purely holding his words in the heat of combat against him while simultaneously ignoring who he’s fighting, what he’s fighting for, and what he’s been through to that point each time
@@theonlysaj Yep. It's like they think Optimus should be some kind of pacifist and never kill...when Optimus has killed many Decepticons even outside the Bayverse.
"Noah hates fighting. It's antithetical to his very soul. But he knows to do nothing when there is an enemy beating down on you is not an act of principle, but of cowardice. Passivism in the face of unrelenting foe is not a virtue, it is a restriction." -TheHearthGuy The above quote is from a video essay discussing the story of Xenoblade Chronicles 3 and it's passivist-turned-soldier protagonist Noah. I feel that this quote is a fair description of Optimus's character and mindset as well.
The fact that there are some comments ignoring the facts and logics of these analyze videos defending bay Optimus prime and instead believing that he is forever a psychopath is just sad.We need more videos like this.Talon productions also does a full in-depth video analysis of bay prime defending and justifying Optimus primes actions and motives. Edit: the crazy lengths people do just to say “bay prime is a psychopath” just comes to show how immature these people are.Ironic that a fandom that has Optimus prime saying “freedom is the right of all sentient beings” basically saying you have the right to be free and be equal and not do bad things that can hurt people completely ignores that quote and decides to bully and be absolute dicks when someone else’s opinion isn’t theirs. Bayverse Optimus prime is just Optimus prime that looks at a certain more realistic approach towards the character and universe while also being a bit unhinged and edgy at times.But hey,Bay said the movies were mainly made for teenage boys.
Yea that’s the unfortunate side of the discourse. Many g1 fans are so offended by what was done they will refuse any and all discourse but I’m glad to say that hasn’t been my experience with many people here, although some are certainly willfully ignorant to any new perspective
Still not my Optimus, I grew up with the Bayverse but got into G1 later on. I was surprised by how different the two iterations of the character were, it’s honestly really unfortunate how throughout the years, Optimus Prime’s image has gone from “Strong enough to be gentle.” to “I’LL KILL YOU / GIVE ME YOUR FACEE.”
I agree it’s unfortunate that people selectively choose to remember only those moments while forgetting the mountains of context that surround them. Both are great depictions of
I definitely dislike Bay Prime, but i see why people like him, or why they justify his bloodshed in such a cruel way. The idea of putting this paragon of hope in a more unfair or crueler world sounds good, but i feel the point is that Optimus is still his hopeful self, despite the world he inhabits. Sort of like what the new Superman movie might be going for, assuming it's going for a more of a Superman Vs The Elite angle. Bay Prime doesn't remain his hopeful and merciful self. He becomes cynical and angry, which is the antithesis to his character. It's why I say the first movie is still the best, because Optimus still his hopeful and self sacrificing self. Its the main message of Sonic 3: Don't let your pain change who you are, and weirdly enough, it fits here.
That's definitely fair though I say it's also fair on how he reached that point of becoming cynical and angry and how much it took for it just to get that bad, and how much we never got the see especially when it came to age of extinction. As much as I dislike the movie, they made it very clear that Optimus was hurt both physically and emotionally, and while before, it was just scared and angry, but after learning that once again, humans betrayed them and nonless intended to kill them all, turning them into a glorified house excesory, after saving their planet for the 3rd time was the last straw. Heck, even when they stormed Kentic Solutions, they just made a bunch of people evacuate. No one died, gaining faith again at the end of the movie. (It honestly could've been one of the best if it was done correctly)
rotb is even more out of character though. Optimus comes to Earth and is immediately like screw humans, showing extreme levels of speciesism even though Optimus is always depicted as being protective of the humans because they are so small and fragile an innocent. Just like in 2007. When bumblebees captured by sector 7 and Ironhide is asking Optimus why are they protecting the humans? Saying that they are violent and cutthroat. But Optimus makes the point that cybertronians are no different. Through all the brutality of the Bayverse, Optimus keeps that View. When he "murders" 😒 and "brutalizes" 🙄 the Decepticons it's for the sake of protecting Humanity. That is, until the events of AOE when he and his Autobots are betrayed, hunted down and massacred. This is after saving the world three separate times. In this, his scorn and brutality is understandable and many would say justified
I’m pretty sure I initially call it by its full name as the cosmic rust cannon but I just refer to it as acid when later describing the scene either way minor slip-up/same difference y’all get the point 😂
that was an awesome comprehensive video giving us the bay verse, i am not in any space where i would see anyone saying negative things about Optimus, but in no universe is optimus a psychopath.....for anyone who would label him as such, then i'd love to see their arguments WRT to megatron, starscream, shockwave, etc......seems like a pointless thing to even argue about....that is like saying Patton was the psychopath cause he said "no one won a war by dying for their country, they won by making the other poor bastard die for theirs" vs hitler, and stalin.....who killed way more innocents in their lifetimes.....blows my mind how some people think in today's world
Much appreciated! After finishing this video I’m definitely motivated to continue and finish out the final two movies, though there’d be a lot of specifications and parameters to set up and explain with all of the behind the scenes madness that impacted 4 and 5’s plots. AOE I can make a good case for, but I don’t know about TLK 😂 Regardless, keep posted this discussion is far from over… 👀
Dude, thanks for taking the time to make this. So much of the nonsense narratives that has been ruining the fanbase for years is just a result of people not stepping up, mad respect to you good sir
I think the funniest part about this is that the bayformers were probably way accurate to the g1 cartoon than other adaption, the bayformers were just g1 but increase the insanity to a 100. Other adaption tend to follow more to the idw comics.
I rewatched the early G1 season TV show and the episodes touched alot of complex issues for a kids show based on a toy like the one big theme in alot of episodes was remaining loyal to the faction or being declared a traitor
Oh for sure they definitely tap into a lot of stuff but it’s still often very surface level when getting to the nitty gritty and remains kid oriented at heart
No. Optimus and the Autobots wanted the AllSpark to rebuild Cybertron in the 2007 movie. The Decepticons wanted it to rule over other species and conquer. If they really wanted to rebuild their home, they would've joined the Autobots in the first movie.
Because the decepticons are often times manipulating, scheming or outright resort to mass killing sprees once uncovered. It’s not like they’re trying to chill peacefully and live their lives … the times we see the autobots hunting them are the times where they are at a disadvantage and are lying in wait for the perfect time to strike and try to take over the world. Doesn’t make them any less of a terrorist. We know that the cons‘s literally have the option to join the Autobots team as evident with drift who joins quite later on in the war so it’s not like the cons domt have the option to switch sides. They’re choosing to remain Decepticons in hiding.
@theonlysaj there's the possibility they align with Megatron because he wants to restore Cybertron, not live with humans in service to the government. It's like what Sentinel Prime said. Why would a Prime take orders from a human? I could see many Cybertronians outright hating the humans and thinking they're superior. And considering all of their tech advances came from studying Megatron, is it really so hard to believe this is the case?
@ yes because megatron literally started the war that caused the downfall of their race. His method of rebuilding cybertron relies on the pillaging and subjugation of sentient worlds for their labor and resources, a cause that is by nature evil. Prime works with and often under humanities desires because they are literally guests in another species house, and he wishes to honor and respect them to the utmost degree.
@theonlysaj Megatron states humans don't deserve to live in the first movie likely because of what was done to him. I dont recall there being any evidence they employed subjugation as a means to conquer other worlds before TF3. They did that in TF3 because they straight up didn't have the resources to build it themselves. Again Megatron was strung up and used for tech. So him hating humans makes sense. Those loyal to him likely felt the same. Sentinel again lays it out pretty clear, they were gods on Cybertron, on earth they're just machines. It's alot like Zod in Man if Steel. Holding aliens to human morality seem sketchy. We don't know what rules they had on Cybertron. Optimus tells his side in the narration of TF07. But we never hear the other side. Optimus even calls Megatron his brother. It seems there's more going on than ppl realize. It's also possible The Fallen's actions were solely to destroy Unicron. But that's just a theory.
Heart of a prime. Ya really do have to squint in the motives of this prime. Too much explosions covering emotion and character. (I went on to make sure to sub or was subscribed). Yo sir have a fair point. And a great way to explain your argument. You finally showed that Bay prime is "Just prime". 😁
He’s been living with humans for several years now and he’s seen the world wide web. How could he not be a psychopath by now? I’m surprised it took so long.😂
I have mentioned this before, but here it is: I never thought of this analogy, but Optimus Prime, in Age of Extinction, is like God in the Old Testament. Humans rejected the real thing in favor of making man-made Cybertronians and unknowingly made idols out of them. But not out of worship, but selfishly prioritizing themselves and paying the price for their foolhardy in the end. In Judges 2:10-13 KJV: And also all that generation were gathered unto their fathers: and there arose another generation after them, which knew not the LORD, nor yet the works which he had done for Israel. And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim: and they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the LORD to anger. And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth. It's not exactly the same situation, but I think you get the idea.
I never really understood this argument, this prime has been through so much more shit then any other prime, not to mention this man only kills out of self defense or defending others
1:12:38 “Your leaders needed to see that this was gonna happen, because they weren’t going to believe me” 1:13:00 “He wasn’t proving a point” Brother, I like you, and I like what you’re attempting to do here, but I implore you to re-analyze here because as you’ve read it aloud, he is saying “toldya so”. The “them” Prime refers to in the quote “…and we needed them to believe we had gone” is the Decepticons. Prime needed the Cons to believe the Bots had gone so that when the Bots returned there would be no resistance or preparedness from the Cons - they’d be caught off guard and unprepared for a counteroffensive. Yes, he mentioned the world leaders, but that was a done and dusted statement “Your leaders will now understand: Decepticons will never leave your planet alone.” Period, end statement. Check the subtitles, check transcriptions, check the screenplay, check the novel page 302 MMPB. This retelling of yours only drives home the “toldya so” argument so many detractors spew and it’s antithetical to what this video is attempting to do
I would disagree that he’s saying I told you so, and even if he is, there’s literally nothing wrong with this. He was completely right, that doesn’t change his intentions to always come back and never give up on humanity. He just wasn’t willing to literally go to war with them to say I’m trying to prove my point guys listen to me or I’m gonna fight you to not exile us. He’s literally just addressing the truth that humans were not going to see and he knew that the cons were indeed conning, but that didn’t stop him from wanting to come back for humanity all along. It’d be a complete different story if he was like I wanted this to happen so you guys would see. Prime was literally warning them and they said we don’t care we want you to leave, so he stashed away with the intention of always coming back and saving them Even if it was against their judgment because he knew what was going to happen. He’s just being super blunt and a lot of people can’t see through that. Dude has been in a brutal civil war for several million years he doesn’t have time to be sugary with his words.
If the Transformers had more screen time in moments of tranquility then the parts where prime loose control would hit harder. If The Autobots had small battles during the movie with more control then when the Decepticons dial up the violence all tge autobots should aim to the kill in self defense. Like even trying to take the allspark to the desert and going all out
A great point. Way too much screen time was devoted to the human story and the autobots were more accessories to the plot rather than actual characters in need of development themselves
No matter how you try to spin it and defend his actions, Bayverse Prime will forever go down as the most violent and merciless version of Optimus Prime ever. Emotionally weak and not fit to be a leader, which is why most of the Autobots we see in the Bayverse movies under his command end up dying. Failing to end the war when he had the chance by choosing to kill Megatron instead of accepting his truce, and turning all of humanity against himself and his Autobots, directly resulting in most of them getting hunted down, are only two items of his long list of major failures. 👍
And this, my friend, is exactly why I made this video, where I explain an address literally every point you bring up, providing the context you so carefully chose to omit. Will this be the most violent depiction? Sure. Does that make him wrong or a complete detraction from what the character should represent? Not at all. Both can be true. This conversation is not black and white
@ This Optimus Prime is weak, both in body and in spirit. He pretends to be righteous but then allows his hatred and spite to get the better of his logical thinking, prolonging a war that he claims to be fighting to stop. There are Primes in the Transformers canon that have faced greater hardship than Bayverse Optimus and still kept a leveled head while remaining good leaders. Prime, WFC, and Skybound, just to name a few.
@dkkanofkash8798 skybound is brand new and that prime has already done some pretty viscous things albeit being effected by the malfunctioning matrix, but i’d have to strongly but respectfully disagree with your perspective. Transformers prime Optimus, you could easily argue, prolonged things much more than bayverse ever does, and I really don’t think bay prime prolongs anything. He literally tries to take his enemies out fully every single time, and once the enemies have been cleared, he recommits his full focus towards preserving and protecting humanity, working lock step with and following their requests. The Autobots are at the clear disadvantage the entire time being the civilian class versus the military equipped decepticons, losing the numbers game, and only after the allspark was fully destroyed with Optimus fully committed to protecting earth rather than letting it be subjugated, do they somewhat give up their endeavor to return home and focus on making a new one on earth
@ "Bayverse Prime didn't prolong anything" by turning all of humanity against himself and his Autobots and causing every Autobot but himself, Bumblebee, and a remaining handful to get hunted down by being a lying and deceitful pos. You're not fooling anyone. You can spin this conversation and defend Bayverse Prime all you want, but you will not convince anyone except those already convinced that Bayverse Optimus Prime is not a psychopath.
There is no excuse whatsoever to be a psychopath. Just because we know why Optimus became who he was, doesn’t mean it’s okay. BayVerse IS a psychopath: you cannot be a mentally sane person and still commit the acts that he does. Your argument is just “oh, he went through Hell and it made him harder and war torn”. That’s not an excuse or a justification, that’s an explanation. We all know why he’s like this, that’s doesn’t mean that he’s right to be this way. It’s like saying we know why the criminal committed the act, he still the crime. Bay didn’t put any thought into Optimus’ character, he just strayed from the source material since he was never a TF fan. BayVerse Prime is a rabid reckless psychopath, a massive disgrace to Optimus Prime.
Also if your saying Optimus should’ve just the real psychopaths just destroy earth then something is wrong with you. Ain’t no way you want Optimus to show mercy to space Hitler.
Thank you to all my subs who have hung in there with me over the last few months as I’ve worked away on this video… and finally it’s Here! With this breakdown being as long as it is, I encourage you to use the chapters to filter through to more exact moments should you so choose, and let me know in the comments what some other topics are that you might want to see me dive into in another video…. UPDATE PART 2 IS IN PROGRESS FOR TF4-5
Every time optimus goes on a rage bender its always because the decepticons did something thats just inexcusable. Especially dark of the moon. No wonder hes pissed when the Decepticons immediately terrorized Chicago when the Autobots left. I know he was like "i told you so" but he still came back to help. Hes not just pissed about the Decepticons being opportunisric but also at the humans, whod rather ally eith the Decepticons, the very same people who wanted them eradicated
💯 and he’s not happy doing what he had to do either
@@theonlysaj It's probably the reason why he behaves the way he does. He only was "strong enough to be gentle" because the humans didn't give him this much of a headache. He became so jaded because right from the get-go, the humans did everything they can just to dunk on their heroes often for no good reason at all. Optimus was trying to advocate for the human race, believing they are capable of change, but he ended up being right on one regard...well, he and Ironhide were right. Humans have proven a primitive and violent species, no different to what the Transformers had become by that point. "Were we so different?"
I don't know why people hate Bayverse Optimus Prime for being a psychopath when every other Optimus Prime killed just as many, if not more people.
People try and compare them all too easily when each has their own set of complex issues and histories that inevitably lead each character down different journeys of development.
It's all about the method. Optimus Prime is the Primary-Color Champion. He's the Captain America or Superman of Transformers. He's the leader. He's the levelheaded one. He's the father to his men. How many characters like that are screaming threats at their enemies while they tear them apart? That is the difference.
There's nothing wrong with OP raging every once in a while, but it can't be in every movie in almost every battle. Narratively, it doesn't work.
@@chey6073 The difference is original Optimus is a children's show main character. Bayverse never tried to be a set of children's movies. Live action prime is a tried and tested marine shock trooper, not a voice box for life lessons
@@SatanicBarbeque If the audience describes Optimus Prime as “a tried and tested marine shock trooper”, that is a giant indicator that you’ve written Optimus Prime incorrectly. The only justification for that is if people call out OP for acting like a marine. Optimus Prime is the hopeful, optimistic beacon of hope for humanity and Transformers society. What you’ve described is the Wreckersor the Lambo Twins
@@SatanicBarbequewhy are people Ok with turning purehearted heroes like Superman and Optimus Prime into moralless, murderous assholes? Do they chronically hate themselves enough?
In the Bayformers comics, before the war, the Autobots used to be the Science Force that do some science and research to improve Cybertron while Decepticons were the Defense Force being the protectors of Cybertron from invaders.
Hence why the Decepticons have superior weapons and numbers while the Autobots were always outgunned and outnumbered in most battles.
It would be like the equivalent of the US military becoming warmongering lunatics that a bunch of civilians were trying to stand up against them by any means necessary.
Yup another great point! I didn’t bother diving into the comics despite all they add in terms of depth to the lore and characters but there’s also unfortunately a number of contradictions that mess up the timeline for the movies. This part though makes complete sense in terms of the Deceptacon versus the Autobots as military and civilians with the Autobots always being on their back foot
@@theonlysaj Indeed and that in the Bayformers comics, Ironhide used to be part of the Defense Force before defecting to Optimus and outright stated to Prime that the Science Force were not built for war as they're civilians but he is, hence he was one of the Autobots' formidable fighters who has actual military experience and firepower.
Of course the Autobots would eventually become warriors in their own right after eons of conflict with the Decepticons, resorting to upgrading themselves with weapons (thanks to Wheeljack or Que) and having to play dirty to even the odds against their enemies' superior military might.
@@theonlysajDid you know Megatron used newborn transformers as living shields
@yaboig187 no but I can’t say that surprises me knowing him 😂 That just does even more to kill the arguments of some of these people in the comments of this video arguing that the Decepticon‘s are the good guys and the Autobots are the oppressors
I like Bay’s take on prime, sure it could’ve had some better executions for the character’s arc, it still shows that Prime, despite all the hardships he’s been through, he is still willing to follow by his rules. I get annoyed when regular viewers or other transformers fans disregard the deeper meanings of this transformers world mostly because Michael bay directed them. Great video btw, really need more people to point these out.
Well put, and thank you!
@@theonlysajanother thing I noticed is that I don’t see anyone complaining about rise of the beast Optimus prime giving out death threats to scourge. Most of it is probs backed up by bee’s death…so bay prime can’t enact revenge after witnessing ratchet’s severed head being melted? Or there are complaints and I haven’t seen them.
@gojirae.l.h.9431 rise of the beasts Optimus actually fits a good bit of the criticism falsely pinned onto bayverse prime. ROTB is immediately cold towards humanity without care, and he completely allows his emotions to take over while fighting . While he grows by the end of the movie, he’s much more of a detraction from g1 than bayverse ever was in full context
@ you just reminded me to post a meme I had saved to the community tab that perfectly fits this exact issue 😂 just posted -> community
@gojirae.l.h.9431 something else to note about rise of the beasts prime, is that he is never given any reason to be as cold as he is towards humanity off the jump. He literally couldn’t care less about them until being around Noah long enough to change his perspective. We also learned that he has been brutally hunting and executing all decepticons around the planet not bothering to take hostages even when crippling them and potentially being able to use them for a way to escape earth. There’s a lot more issues with ROTB primes setup compared to bayverse for sure
People are just too self centered and dull with morality to even understand prime. He's died, lost his friends, back stabbed by humans who've also killed some friends of his, betrayed by his own teacher, etc. And most of the time he goes for a quick kill. People seriously need to stop hating on prime because this is a different reality not everyone gets some sing along happy ending. It's dark, gritty, and prime is done. Honestly I feel for the man
Yup it really all comes down to hyper nitpicks of in battle dialogue and completely omitting the context of some of his other choices
Primes actions are justified if anyone went through everything he did we all would be the same way
👆🏼this guy gets it
I don’t consider OP an psychopath because doesn’t kill for fun usually when kills someone it’s out of rage and besides Skybound OP was also really brutal in the past
Yup Optimus is literally regretful and reminiscent when Megatron first dies, and is in a fit of rage after being resurrected because he’s literally on a time crunch to save the planet stopping space hitler the fallen😂 Even in DOTM he’s not happy after he kills sentinel and Megatron, actually looking disgusted by what he was forced to do
Always good to see others defending Bay Prime! Heart of a Prime.
In my opinion, Bayverse Optimus is the definition of "Beware the fury of the patient man". Dude did nothing wrong. People forget that Optimus Prime isn't just a peacemaker or a diplomat, he's also a soldier. And you can only push someone like that so far before they become outwardly hostile towards you. Megatron and the Decepticons did so constantly, and Sentinel's betrayal and murder of Ironhide definitely didn't help. And then humanity decided to (EXTREMLY STUPIDLY I should add) betray the Autobots (like seriously, WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT CRAP? I'd understand if they were hunting down Decepticons only, but Autobots too?!).
Seriously, anyone who thinks he's a psychopath for killing Decepticons, executing Sentinel, killing Megatron instead of making peace with him, and eventually coming to not trust humans after everything he went through are Decepticon sympathizers. They have to be.
Edit: Forgot to add this before. Heart of a Prime.
Well said! They only argument for him being a “psychopath” relies on purely holding his words in the heat of combat against him while simultaneously ignoring who he’s fighting, what he’s fighting for, and what he’s been through to that point each time
@@theonlysaj Yep. It's like they think Optimus should be some kind of pacifist and never kill...when Optimus has killed many Decepticons even outside the Bayverse.
Heart of Prime. Optimus Prime.
🫵🏼🙏🏼
"Noah hates fighting. It's antithetical to his very soul. But he knows to do nothing when there is an enemy beating down on you is not an act of principle, but of cowardice. Passivism in the face of unrelenting foe is not a virtue, it is a restriction."
-TheHearthGuy
The above quote is from a video essay discussing the story of Xenoblade Chronicles 3 and it's passivist-turned-soldier protagonist Noah. I feel that this quote is a fair description of Optimus's character and mindset as well.
That’s fitting indeed, I’ll have to check this out!
Well, TFI Creation completely recalls that in Finest Hour, that every Prime has their breaking point...
“You will never stop at one!” (Prime, 2007)
To many beta males and others clouded by emotional weakness.
I think one of the best phrases that perfectly described Bayverse Optimus and his actions is “Desperate times call for desperate measures.”
The fact that there are some comments ignoring the facts and logics of these analyze videos defending bay Optimus prime and instead believing that he is forever a psychopath is just sad.We need more videos like this.Talon productions also does a full in-depth video analysis of bay prime defending and justifying Optimus primes actions and motives.
Edit: the crazy lengths people do just to say “bay prime is a psychopath” just comes to show how immature these people are.Ironic that a fandom that has Optimus prime saying “freedom is the right of all sentient beings” basically saying you have the right to be free and be equal and not do bad things that can hurt people completely ignores that quote and decides to bully and be absolute dicks when someone else’s opinion isn’t theirs.
Bayverse Optimus prime is just Optimus prime that looks at a certain more realistic approach towards the character and universe while also being a bit unhinged and edgy at times.But hey,Bay said the movies were mainly made for teenage boys.
Yea that’s the unfortunate side of the discourse. Many g1 fans are so offended by what was done they will refuse any and all discourse but I’m glad to say that hasn’t been my experience with many people here, although some are certainly willfully ignorant to any new perspective
Ayyy I appreciate the shoutout!
Still not my Optimus, I grew up with the Bayverse but got into G1 later on. I was surprised by how different the two iterations of the character were, it’s honestly really unfortunate how throughout the years, Optimus Prime’s image has gone from “Strong enough to be gentle.” to “I’LL KILL YOU / GIVE ME YOUR FACEE.”
I agree it’s unfortunate that people selectively choose to remember only those moments while forgetting the mountains of context that surround them. Both are great depictions of
"You'll never stop at one" literally came from that same movie, though.
I definitely dislike Bay Prime, but i see why people like him, or why they justify his bloodshed in such a cruel way.
The idea of putting this paragon of hope in a more unfair or crueler world sounds good, but i feel the point is that Optimus is still his hopeful self, despite the world he inhabits.
Sort of like what the new Superman movie might be going for, assuming it's going for a more of a Superman Vs The Elite angle.
Bay Prime doesn't remain his hopeful and merciful self. He becomes cynical and angry, which is the antithesis to his character. It's why I say the first movie is still the best, because Optimus still his hopeful and self sacrificing self. Its the main message of Sonic 3: Don't let your pain change who you are, and weirdly enough, it fits here.
That's definitely fair though I say it's also fair on how he reached that point of becoming cynical and angry and how much it took for it just to get that bad, and how much we never got the see especially when it came to age of extinction. As much as I dislike the movie, they made it very clear that Optimus was hurt both physically and emotionally, and while before, it was just scared and angry, but after learning that once again, humans betrayed them and nonless intended to kill them all, turning them into a glorified house excesory, after saving their planet for the 3rd time was the last straw. Heck, even when they stormed Kentic Solutions, they just made a bunch of people evacuate. No one died, gaining faith again at the end of the movie. (It honestly could've been one of the best if it was done correctly)
BEEN WAITING FOR THIS LETS GOOOO
Hope I delivered 🙏🏼
rotb is even more out of character though. Optimus comes to Earth and is immediately like screw humans, showing extreme levels of speciesism even though Optimus is always depicted as being protective of the humans because they are so small and fragile an innocent.
Just like in 2007. When bumblebees captured by sector 7 and Ironhide is asking Optimus why are they protecting the humans? Saying that they are violent and cutthroat. But Optimus makes the point that cybertronians are no different. Through all the brutality of the Bayverse, Optimus keeps that View. When he "murders" 😒 and "brutalizes" 🙄 the Decepticons it's for the sake of protecting Humanity.
That is, until the events of AOE when he and his Autobots are betrayed, hunted down and massacred. This is after saving the world three separate times. In this, his scorn and brutality is understandable and many would say justified
💯💯
Sentinel's gun is a rust cannon. Not an acid cannon. You can see it spreading up to destroy his hand, acid wouldn't be anti gravity.
I’m pretty sure I initially call it by its full name as the cosmic rust cannon but I just refer to it as acid when later describing the scene either way minor slip-up/same difference y’all get the point 😂
that was an awesome comprehensive video giving us the bay verse, i am not in any space where i would see anyone saying negative things about Optimus, but in no universe is optimus a psychopath.....for anyone who would label him as such, then i'd love to see their arguments WRT to megatron, starscream, shockwave, etc......seems like a pointless thing to even argue about....that is like saying Patton was the psychopath cause he said "no one won a war by dying for their country, they won by making the other poor bastard die for theirs" vs hitler, and stalin.....who killed way more innocents in their lifetimes.....blows my mind how some people think in today's world
Well said, and another great example and comparison! Always appreciate hearing your feedback DB🙏🏼
This is an amazing breakdown of Primes characterization in the Bayfilms. Glad to have seen and subscribe to this channel for the first time
Thank you! 🙏🏼
Honestly, Bayverse Prime and TFA Prime are my favorite renditions of the character.
Agreed
“I’ve been looking forward to this”
Long time coming 😂
bayverse prime is peak. idc.
💯💯
I would like to see a continuation on this with Age of Extinction.
Working on that as I respond to this 😉
Heart of a prime. Great video bro i wanna see what you think about 4 and 5
Much appreciated! After finishing this video I’m definitely motivated to continue and finish out the final two movies, though there’d be a lot of specifications and parameters to set up and explain with all of the behind the scenes madness that impacted 4 and 5’s plots. AOE I can make a good case for, but I don’t know about TLK 😂
Regardless, keep posted this discussion is far from over… 👀
heart of a prime
also funny he wants to probably do AOE but not TLK
I wanna hear his take on "Nemesis Prime"
I’ve been convinced …. I’m doing it 😂. I’ll be working on a part 2 covering the final 2 movies very soon
"never mourn the past young warrior, thanks to you, our race survives."
💯
Dude, thanks for taking the time to make this. So much of the nonsense narratives that has been ruining the fanbase for years is just a result of people not stepping up, mad respect to you good sir
Thank you!🙏🏼
1:28 that image is from one of the most underrated games I’ve ever played when I was younger
Need them to remaster or at least put them back in the store 💯
I think the funniest part about this is that the bayformers were probably way accurate to the g1 cartoon than other adaption, the bayformers were just g1 but increase the insanity to a 100. Other adaption tend to follow more to the idw comics.
Thank you for standing up for Baypeak, Mr. Saj
Heart of a prime❤, “hop and optimism!!” inspired other to light their darkness hour, until the day come, till all are one.
🙏🏼💯
I rewatched the early G1 season TV show and the episodes touched alot of complex issues for a kids show based on a toy like the one big theme in alot of episodes was remaining loyal to the faction or being declared a traitor
Oh for sure they definitely tap into a lot of stuff but it’s still often very surface level when getting to the nitty gritty and remains kid oriented at heart
He killed those poor deceptions in cold blood. They were just trying to save their world, but the murderous Autobots hunted them down to extinction.
Yea shame on him for not allowing the genocide of humanity and decimation of earth 😂
@@theonlysaj Unicron is the devil though, so the autobots are essentially agents of Satan.
They didn't want to save their world, they wanted to destroy it and destroy another word which Optimus claimed to be his new home
How cemetery wind saw things..never forget ratchet
No. Optimus and the Autobots wanted the AllSpark to rebuild Cybertron in the 2007 movie. The Decepticons wanted it to rule over other species and conquer. If they really wanted to rebuild their home, they would've joined the Autobots in the first movie.
Later in the series Decepticons are captured not executed. This happens when Optimus is off Earth, which I think says alot.
Because the decepticons are often times manipulating, scheming or outright resort to mass killing sprees once uncovered. It’s not like they’re trying to chill peacefully and live their lives … the times we see the autobots hunting them are the times where they are at a disadvantage and are lying in wait for the perfect time to strike and try to take over the world. Doesn’t make them any less of a terrorist. We know that the cons‘s literally have the option to join the Autobots team as evident with drift who joins quite later on in the war so it’s not like the cons domt have the option to switch sides. They’re choosing to remain Decepticons in hiding.
@theonlysaj there's the possibility they align with Megatron because he wants to restore Cybertron, not live with humans in service to the government. It's like what Sentinel Prime said. Why would a Prime take orders from a human? I could see many Cybertronians outright hating the humans and thinking they're superior. And considering all of their tech advances came from studying Megatron, is it really so hard to believe this is the case?
@ yes because megatron literally started the war that caused the downfall of their race. His method of rebuilding cybertron relies on the pillaging and subjugation of sentient worlds for their labor and resources, a cause that is by nature evil. Prime works with and often under humanities desires because they are literally guests in another species house, and he wishes to honor and respect them to the utmost degree.
@theonlysaj Megatron states humans don't deserve to live in the first movie likely because of what was done to him. I dont recall there being any evidence they employed subjugation as a means to conquer other worlds before TF3. They did that in TF3 because they straight up didn't have the resources to build it themselves. Again Megatron was strung up and used for tech. So him hating humans makes sense. Those loyal to him likely felt the same. Sentinel again lays it out pretty clear, they were gods on Cybertron, on earth they're just machines. It's alot like Zod in Man if Steel. Holding aliens to human morality seem sketchy. We don't know what rules they had on Cybertron. Optimus tells his side in the narration of TF07. But we never hear the other side. Optimus even calls Megatron his brother. It seems there's more going on than ppl realize. It's also possible The Fallen's actions were solely to destroy Unicron. But that's just a theory.
Heart of a prime. Ya really do have to squint in the motives of this prime. Too much explosions covering emotion and character. (I went on to make sure to sub or was subscribed). Yo sir have a fair point. And a great way to explain your argument. You finally showed that Bay prime is "Just prime". 😁
Appreciate hearing your feedback and I completely agree. Glad you see the validity in the point I’m trying to make 🙏🏼
He’s been living with humans for several years now and he’s seen the world wide web. How could he not be a psychopath by now? I’m surprised it took so long.😂
😂😂😂
@ I’ll take that as an agreement 😆
Heart of a prime!
W video
Thank you 🙏🏼
I have mentioned this before, but here it is:
I never thought of this analogy, but Optimus Prime, in Age of Extinction, is like God in the Old Testament.
Humans rejected the real thing in favor of making man-made Cybertronians and unknowingly made idols out of them. But not out of worship, but selfishly prioritizing themselves and paying the price for their foolhardy in the end.
In Judges 2:10-13 KJV:
And also all that generation were gathered unto their fathers: and there arose another generation after them, which knew not the LORD, nor yet the works which he had done for Israel. And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim: and they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the LORD to anger. And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth.
It's not exactly the same situation, but I think you get the idea.
I never really understood this argument, this prime has been through so much more shit then any other prime, not to mention this man only kills out of self defense or defending others
I've considered him kinda psycho for a *while* now.
BUT I WAS ROOTING FOR HIM ALL THE WAY.
TAKE HIS FACE.
😂😂😂
1:12:38 “Your leaders needed to see that this was gonna happen, because they weren’t going to believe me”
1:13:00 “He wasn’t proving a point”
Brother, I like you, and I like what you’re attempting to do here, but I implore you to re-analyze here because as you’ve read it aloud, he is saying “toldya so”.
The “them” Prime refers to in the quote “…and we needed them to believe we had gone” is the Decepticons. Prime needed the Cons to believe the Bots had gone so that when the Bots returned there would be no resistance or preparedness from the Cons - they’d be caught off guard and unprepared for a counteroffensive.
Yes, he mentioned the world leaders, but that was a done and dusted statement “Your leaders will now understand: Decepticons will never leave your planet alone.” Period, end statement. Check the subtitles, check transcriptions, check the screenplay, check the novel page 302 MMPB. This retelling of yours only drives home the “toldya so” argument so many detractors spew and it’s antithetical to what this video is attempting to do
I would disagree that he’s saying I told you so, and even if he is, there’s literally nothing wrong with this. He was completely right, that doesn’t change his intentions to always come back and never give up on humanity. He just wasn’t willing to literally go to war with them to say I’m trying to prove my point guys listen to me or I’m gonna fight you to not exile us. He’s literally just addressing the truth that humans were not going to see and he knew that the cons were indeed conning, but that didn’t stop him from wanting to come back for humanity all along. It’d be a complete different story if he was like I wanted this to happen so you guys would see. Prime was literally warning them and they said we don’t care we want you to leave, so he stashed away with the intention of always coming back and saving them Even if it was against their judgment because he knew what was going to happen. He’s just being super blunt and a lot of people can’t see through that. Dude has been in a brutal civil war for several million years he doesn’t have time to be sugary with his words.
Heart of a Prime. They will never make me hate you, Bayverse Optimus.
🙏🏼🫵🏼💯
I personally feel like Baby verse Optimus Prime is pretty good but Bay verse Megatron was only good on the first movie
Heart of a Prime 🚛🚩
🫵🏼🙏🏼💯
If the Transformers had more screen time in moments of tranquility then the parts where prime loose control would hit harder. If The Autobots had small battles during the movie with more control then when the Decepticons dial up the violence all tge autobots should aim to the kill in self defense. Like even trying to take the allspark to the desert and going all out
A great point. Way too much screen time was devoted to the human story and the autobots were more accessories to the plot rather than actual characters in need of development themselves
The CGI is expansive.
That is why they have not that much screentime.
Heart of a Prime
🙏🏼🫵🏼
huh this was really interesting, and heart of a prime
🙏🏼
yes he is VERY justified
....Here's for the echo chamber of Bayverse Bad.
💯
Heart of a PRIME!
🫵🏼🙏🏼
No matter how you try to spin it and defend his actions, Bayverse Prime will forever go down as the most violent and merciless version of Optimus Prime ever. Emotionally weak and not fit to be a leader, which is why most of the Autobots we see in the Bayverse movies under his command end up dying. Failing to end the war when he had the chance by choosing to kill Megatron instead of accepting his truce, and turning all of humanity against himself and his Autobots, directly resulting in most of them getting hunted down, are only two items of his long list of major failures. 👍
And this, my friend, is exactly why I made this video, where I explain an address literally every point you bring up, providing the context you so carefully chose to omit. Will this be the most violent depiction? Sure. Does that make him wrong or a complete detraction from what the character should represent? Not at all. Both can be true. This conversation is not black and white
@@theonlysaj something tells me they didn’t watch the whole video…
@ This Optimus Prime is weak, both in body and in spirit. He pretends to be righteous but then allows his hatred and spite to get the better of his logical thinking, prolonging a war that he claims to be fighting to stop. There are Primes in the Transformers canon that have faced greater hardship than Bayverse Optimus and still kept a leveled head while remaining good leaders. Prime, WFC, and Skybound, just to name a few.
@dkkanofkash8798 skybound is brand new and that prime has already done some pretty viscous things albeit being effected by the malfunctioning matrix, but i’d have to strongly but respectfully disagree with your perspective. Transformers prime Optimus, you could easily argue, prolonged things much more than bayverse ever does, and I really don’t think bay prime prolongs anything. He literally tries to take his enemies out fully every single time, and once the enemies have been cleared, he recommits his full focus towards preserving and protecting humanity, working lock step with and following their requests. The Autobots are at the clear disadvantage the entire time being the civilian class versus the military equipped decepticons, losing the numbers game, and only after the allspark was fully destroyed with Optimus fully committed to protecting earth rather than letting it be subjugated, do they somewhat give up their endeavor to return home and focus on making a new one on earth
@ "Bayverse Prime didn't prolong anything" by turning all of humanity against himself and his Autobots and causing every Autobot but himself, Bumblebee, and a remaining handful to get hunted down by being a lying and deceitful pos. You're not fooling anyone. You can spin this conversation and defend Bayverse Prime all you want, but you will not convince anyone except those already convinced that Bayverse Optimus Prime is not a psychopath.
There is no excuse whatsoever to be a psychopath. Just because we know why Optimus became who he was, doesn’t mean it’s okay.
BayVerse IS a psychopath: you cannot be a mentally sane person and still commit the acts that he does.
Your argument is just “oh, he went through Hell and it made him harder and war torn”. That’s not an excuse or a justification, that’s an explanation.
We all know why he’s like this, that’s doesn’t mean that he’s right to be this way. It’s like saying we know why the criminal committed the act, he still the crime.
Bay didn’t put any thought into Optimus’ character, he just strayed from the source material since he was never a TF fan. BayVerse Prime is a rabid reckless psychopath, a massive disgrace to Optimus Prime.
“A massive disgrace to Optimus Prime”
Rid and earthspark: “Are we a joke to you?”
Also if your saying Optimus should’ve just the real psychopaths just destroy earth then something is wrong with you. Ain’t no way you want Optimus to show mercy to space Hitler.
@ Those two Primes are far better characters than Bay’s. That’s a fact
@ I didn’t say that. I’m saying he shouldn’t have to be a psychopath to defeat the others.
@@aaroneclipse514 That’s cap and you know it, Rid was a terrible adaptation of what he used to be in tfp and we don’t talk about earthspark Primd