Depends. Normally it might have bothered me a bit but wouldn't mind, as you'd have to be winning to make it to an early inhib. On a promo game... I'd probably go there myself to finish off the inhib, die in the process, mute you and proceed to play the rest of the game with 50% of my brainpower occupied wondering what pantheon of gods I'd deeply offended to get such idiots in my promos.
Also, in lower elo you are basically guaranteed multiple towers, dragon and a buff anyway, since their macro is bad. Either they leave their teammate to defend alone and you get a free tower (either nexus or outer if you swapped) or they pull 2 people to defend and you leaving the area for map objectives. The correct option in this situation, namely catching the splitpusher, is almost never even attempted.
Great stuff! I loved this. Its funny because I always leaned toward s Inhib MUST result in baron or I feel it's not worth. Looks like my caveman intuition was somewhat right.
@@kikifisselstein7322 at this rate you can say any age and if you look at him you'd probably be right. He could be 20 or 100 for all we know and it'd probably work
Exactly. Sun Tzu knows his MOBAs. The team that gets the first inhibitor has over a 90% chance to win the game. Maybe those less than 10% losses are all early inhibitors, but I doubt it.
Something that you briefly mention, the distribution of gold and XP is a very important factor for not taking inhibs early. Funneling all gold and XP onto a primary carry can be much more valuable than having xp and gold distributed across all members.
Maybe in pro play where "protect the X" playstyle is possible but I'd rather not deal with that in soloq. People get antsy and are willing to throw all the funnelled gold/exp back to the enemy team for the 0/4 vayne kill. Happens in every elo
Its also real important to note an inhibitor 'pressure' doesn't ever guarantee baron against any remotely competent team. The only way it does is if you know they don't have TPs or get a pick with vision advantage.
One more thing I'd like to add is that if your team is behind, you'd love to just farm safely in your base and deny that gold exp to the enemy. Why? Because if you're far behind, then they will be able to take dragon and baron regardless of what you do. So getting back into the game should be the main focus. Before 25 mins, it definitely makes it easier with inhib taken.
great video as usual, i think a point that's fair to bring up is the difference in exp and gold between your team and the enemy team. If you're ahead, you gaining 1500exp isn't nearly as good as them getting the same amount.
in a way, instead of killing an early inhibitor and potentially losing a lot of gold and xp if you don't do anything with the map pressure you might as well not kill it and instead leave the enemy with an open inhibitor, which is a decent amount of pressure in itself tbh
Another important factor is the lane the inhib was taken. If Baron is up, then taking bot inhibitor is much more valuable than taking top inhibitor. Vice versa with Dragon/Soul/Elder.
No, you like 90% of other people overestimate the power of a single inhib, a single inhib in botlane will ALMOST never result in anything, not even an extra camp. What IS more valueable though, is superminions from multiple lanes, even if it funnel more gold, getting 2 inhibs at roughly the same time will generally give you access to the entire map including nash and drakes
@@andreihlen7597 that has nothing to do with what he said,just that if baron is open then bot inhib is more valuable than top inhib due to travel distance
@@swordyshield No it's relevant, as I state even under those circumstances the inhib is more likely to do more harm than good. A single botlane inhib is not going to pressure enough to make the baron more likely. A single inhib > rotate to nash is 99% of the time the wrong call.
Maaan. I really wish we got to hear this Phreak on the broadcast. Not just the content, but the tone as well. It translates to both a more enjoyable listening experience and comes off as more knowledgeable. Would love this Phreak in the LCS.
Hey man, no one goes in depth like you do, thank you so much for putting the time and effort into giving us quality content. I really appreciate it, and I'm sure so many others do to. Is there any way that you could please make the Dragon video you mentioned?
I think the math changes a little when looking at specifically which inhib. Killing the middle inhib doesn't prevent the enemy team from easily contesting baron as they can just push the middle wave and be close enough, killing the opposite inhib on the other side of the map the only player they can expend to keep the supers in check would be someone with teleport available opening up an easier baron for your team. I would like to see an analysis done over a great number of games and see the difference between base turret destroyed and inhib left, vs base turret destroyed and inhib destroyed mapped out on win rate vs game time to see how the decision maps out in actual winrate. My intuition over the years was killing inhib pre 25 wasn't good unless it gets you baron/soul uncontested. Glad to see you crunch the numbers!
Yes thanks I was looking for exactly this simple chart of how many waves of playtime I have on the lane before the need to attend objective because noone seems to take attention to this.
Really really hard to pinpoint exactly when it's worth or not; inhibitor kills does grant your team immense pressure and vision control that could potentially set up a lot of picks onto champions as well (at least in SoloQ), depending on comp this could be absolutetly vital to secure the win. Still, the general rule of thumb "can we get baron off of this?" is still a good one to have in the back of your mind to be certain that it is a good play to destroy that inhibitor, and will hopefully make me think twice about an early inhib vs scaling compositions. Good video.
The issue I see with the maximum potential for taking an inhib is this: You can take enemy jungle even if you only get the inhibitor turret because that means you're likely on the winning side anyway and have more map control.
Not necessarily true, an inhib can be taken by a team thats even in the game or behind. Even in pro play, plenty of times we've seen situations where one team opts to push down multiple lanes maybe do a dragon while another trades it by rolling down only one lane going all the way to the inhibitor.
I think team compositions play a major factor. If you team has high pick potential and/or the enemy team is more team fight focused, where they kinda need all 5 together an inhibitor kill is much more worthwhile as you can leverage the map control better.
This is why I believe that if you're losing your lane (gone 0/3/0 within 16 minutes or are just being completely zoned off) when/if you're level 6 you might as well leave and go help push another lane, as them getting 1300 (includes tower plates) "free" gold (+ whatever they get from the minion waves) is a lot less to snowbwll off of, instead of dying, giving them 300 - 150 extra golf around 6 times (which would at worst be 150x6 which is 900) + that 1300 anyway because you're dead, but now also so far behind the games pace. Leaving the lane and going somewhere else, would make you fall behind that particular person, but won't make you fall behind the games pace, just like how the bot lane might be lower level than top or mid, but they aren't behind the games pace where they have 0 impact. Essentially what I'm saying is, if you've lost your lane, go to another lane before they lose their lane to because the winner of your lane roaming over to it. Rather than hoping your allies come save you, go to them and push top or mid lane as 2 (up to 3) or bot lane as 3 (up to 5) because if you can't win a 3v1 or 5v3 then you weren't winning that game anyway. If two lanes are losing, then you have to 4 or 5 man the lane that's not lost yet. If all 3 lanes are losing, then you follow the jungler, attack the camps as to speed up the full clear, then as 2/3/4/5 roam from lane to lane, catching waves, this isn't going hav you get fed, but it shouldn't have the enemy be able to 1v4 your team because of them 9 kills you gave them. Sticking with person(s) who is the strongest on your team prevents them dying quickly, and you from being an easy target once again.
funny youtube recced this to me because my duo refuses to agree or understand the benefit of leaving inhib since in lower elo you cant make as much use of the time and space it gives as opposed to wiping the enemy team again and full ending. great video
Really good stuff and while I thoroughly enjoy the patch notes videos, this sort of content has greater longevity. Dude at this point why don't you have some sort of Patreon or donation option?
I think something to add (maybe another video entirely) is controlling vision. I know you mentioned 3:1 jg quadrants in terms of gold/exp but I think denying/controlling vision while at least threatening to do baron/dragon is valuable because the enemy team might try to facecheck a dark jg brush you have control over, allowing you to get probably get a pick off. Not only gaining extra kill gold/exp (to make up for the lost super lane) but makes securing epic monster objective that much easier and probable. Since they would have to physically get close to try to contest or else unreliably hope to get a steal with a global ult.
Vision only matters if you gain something from it. This is included in the Objectives. Expecting mistakes lead to extra Kills is something that can happen infinitely and on both sides, so it doesn't really matter and should not be part of the Analysis. It should however be mentioned in the limitations.
would you mind doing a video like this on killing first turret and the gold it denies you if the wave is frozen? I've seen so many people talk about how bad it is to take first turret that I don't really know when it's good.
I remember when I joined League of Legends in the end of season 1 and seeing this guy with this tons of damage puns. Decade later and he still looks the same like whose blood do you bathe in to age like that.
You can share xp from minions, which result in even more xp gains (there's an xp multiplier ased on how many ppl is in range), but you can't share it from jungle camps !
Phreak can you do a similar video to this but for grevious wounds? Looking for answers on why pros don't build it when there is so much more healing in game now and how effective is it when more people buy it instead of just one person like only the adc.
Think about it this way. If a chem item or grievous wound item gives 40% healing cut and a champion heals 100 Hp from life steal/Omni vamp/ etc. then you are only cutting 40hp. 2.67 gold is worth roughly 1 hp according to wiki and using chem punk chainsaw (2600 gold) you would need to prevent a little over 973hp before you make its value. This sounds fine but considering almost all champions synergise with items 1-3 they make more efficient usage of that gold as no adc is trading infinity edge for chem items. This does come with a caveat as the value of healing cut increases with the enemy team comp, if they have a Sylas, mundo, viego etc. then obviously grievous wounds is really nice but healing doesn’t get insane until 2 items+ so an adc would rather buy 2 items or 3 if they are fed then get a chem item. You basically need to think will this grievous wounds allow me to get an advantage that my normal item wouldn’t. If you’re an assassin mage then it would be more effective that you built pure damage because you can’t heal death, things like that. I was shitting on it pretty hard because many will just buy bramble vest or executioner and sit on it but I think the value should be considered when getting the item as a whole because leaving it in the pre item form and selling it is inefficient and makes no sense.
well... in a solo environmentQ definitely taking the inhibitor early can cause problems due to lack of forced communication and the pressure of having to be proactive (even earning is quite exhausting) but in a competitive environment the best teams are able to use this inhibitor for set dives and increase the pressure on the other two routes, something that was not considered in the video is how an inhibitor can make it difficult to farm and experience sharing of the other two routes, especially at the beginning of the game when few champions alone can avoid so much dive and farm the entire wave of the remaining routes
but what if you're really fed, cant you like, use the pressure to get more towers, even if its early in the game? cus i played top once when i was like 7/0 with 2 towers down at like 14 min, i was 2 or 3 levels ahead of everyone and i decided to get tower and inhib, then went mid and got 2 towers there, which made my mid fed aswell, so i was thinking that was worth, but maybe it wasent?
I'm probably late to this, currently in the beggining of the vid, but can't you just do a staystical analysis of the correlation between winrate and early inhib? Like you have all the data, its pretty interesting to see why doing it is good or not, but can't we know the answer for sure without the reason?
I feel like the importance of the why is being undervalued here. He probably could've just done a statistical analysis on those two factors and laid out a very simple answer, but I think knowing the why makes for more well-rounded, knowledgeable players that actually have the understanding to make this kind of decision in the middle of a game. Not only that, but just because you destroy an inhib early and it's "the wrong move" doesn't mean you lose the game, especially in lower elo matches. The players don't know how to close out a game, they parade their win around for 25+ minutes so the enemy can farm up and eventually end up losing the game if they don't get it together. At the same time, even if the early inhib was a bad call, it still comes down to individual skill levels and team coordination and doesn't always result in a loss. Then again, if you only look at high elo, it might be less skewed, but it's still possible to screw up at that rank and throw the game regardless. This seems like the best way to actually explain and educate players on the issues with unnecessarily taking early inhibs, not only that, but the average league player proves on a consistent basis that they have no understanding of the game mechanics and how they work so this kind of explanation is even more valuable. Educating the player base seems more important when you consider some of these factors.
I have been thinking about this topic a lot in my solo queue games and I have arrived at my own conclusion. Giving the opponent 720 gold in exchange for 5 minutes of locking a player down & having vision of the enemy base is completely and totally worth it unless your team is extremely far ahead. If your team is very far ahead then you can just plan for a single thorough game ending push at your own convenience, however, if the game is close (or losing) it's better to take the risk that the pressure from inhibitor will pay itself off through favorable vision and fights, and possibly even allows you to end through backdooring or crushing the other 2 inhibs and flooding the base. I don't actually think it's possible to crush an inhibitor too early.
Something you didn’t mention though is the ”value” you get from the mental anguish a 16 minute inhib causes. In soloqueue it is likely to cause them to tilt, flame, and even early surrender when they could potentially scale it out.
My rule of thumb.... Should you take mid inhibitor? Probably never worth it, because its really easy to fight off and you're just funneling money into the enemy team. Its nice to take if you're taking another inhibitor down with it though. Top inhibitor? Sure if you're pressuring dragon or have enough pressure to decimate the bot side of the map. Bot inhibitor? Arguably the best inhibitor to take because of it's distance from baron(unless soul point/elder is up then it really depends). If you have a chance to take it down 9/10 you should usually kill it. This is really basic and doesn't fit every use case, but to sum it up. Kill Top inhib?(Bad early, but scales better the later the game goes). Kill Mid Inhib?(Usually never unless you can stack pressure into other lanes/jungle heavily). Kill Bot Inhib(Best Inihib to take and "should" usually always be taken due to its far proximity from baron)
i mean in my last ranked game the enemy nasus destroy our tier 4 turrets at 12 min and our nexus at 15 min so he destroyed the inhib way before nash spawn and still win the game( he was 32/1 at the end)
![Lp. Последняя Реальность #97 ЧЁРНАЯ МАТЕРИЯ [Анти Скинт] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/k4MjXCzKsYw/mqdefault.jpg)
I think the big question is how much gold my plat team's mental is worth after they see me leave an inhib
"Why are you booing me? I'm right!"
yea, im in gold 3 no was plat, but im scared as hell to actually try this in game, feel like im gonna get flamed or trolled
Oh god I laughed way too hard at this
Depends.
Normally it might have bothered me a bit but wouldn't mind, as you'd have to be winning to make it to an early inhib.
On a promo game... I'd probably go there myself to finish off the inhib, die in the process, mute you and proceed to play the rest of the game with 50% of my brainpower occupied wondering what pantheon of gods I'd deeply offended to get such idiots in my promos.
Also, in lower elo you are basically guaranteed multiple towers, dragon and a buff anyway, since their macro is bad. Either they leave their teammate to defend alone and you get a free tower (either nexus or outer if you swapped) or they pull 2 people to defend and you leaving the area for map objectives. The correct option in this situation, namely catching the splitpusher, is almost never even attempted.
Thank you mr Phreak
love you poly, you inspired me to become a bard main
:D
Bardo has now learned to combat his enemies even more fiercely.
Polypuff!
puff!
Immediately added this to my ’Watch Later’ list after I saw it in my sub box.
Bro, I watch all of your videos and you have taught me so much for shen. My gameplay has increased 10 fold. Thank you 🙏
The thumbnail of your newest video is a true master peace!
Shen can’t kill inhibs anyway so it’s not up to us XD
I love how he pointed to the poster when he said tons of damage
glad to see the "tons of damage" meme still going on after all these years
Great stuff! I loved this.
Its funny because I always leaned toward s Inhib MUST result in baron or I feel it's not worth. Looks like my caveman intuition was somewhat right.
the og macro boss, good to see you here
Eyyy its Old Man Neace. I heard you were 73 from one of your bootcampers, keep at it, that's pretty inspiring.
old man neace is always right
@@kikifisselstein7322 at this rate you can say any age and if you look at him you'd probably be right. He could be 20 or 100 for all we know and it'd probably work
yeah I agree
Always destroy the Inhibitor regardless of all circumstances. - Sun Tzu, Art of War
this comment is sooo underrated...
"When you misplay, it is always the fault of the jungler." - Sun Tzu, Art of War
@@koifish528 "When an adc is trolling, its probably the supports fault." - Sun Tzu, The Art of War.
Exactly. Sun Tzu knows his MOBAs.
The team that gets the first inhibitor has over a 90% chance to win the game. Maybe those less than 10% losses are all early inhibitors, but I doubt it.
I mean for non-competitive aram it's correct xD
Gotta love these analysis Phreak does. Always to the point, always backed up by numbers. We don't deserve you dude
what do we deserve
@@Lynxsis Death and despair obviously
Yeah, *you* don't.
_Mordekaiser, take him to brazil_
"Now, for some reason, a large swath of the population didn't learn reading comprehension..."
Phreak I am always here for your shots. Good stuff.
Something that you briefly mention, the distribution of gold and XP is a very important factor for not taking inhibs early. Funneling all gold and XP onto a primary carry can be much more valuable than having xp and gold distributed across all members.
Maybe in pro play where "protect the X" playstyle is possible but I'd rather not deal with that in soloq. People get antsy and are willing to throw all the funnelled gold/exp back to the enemy team for the 0/4 vayne kill.
Happens in every elo
From champion spotlights to analytical breakdowns. This is why we love you Phreak
Its also real important to note an inhibitor 'pressure' doesn't ever guarantee baron against any remotely competent team. The only way it does is if you know they don't have TPs or get a pick with vision advantage.
Thank you so much for this much-needed explanation. I just hope more people understand this information.
This channel is a treasure throve. Every pro player, 'analyst', and "coach" should be subscribed!
One more thing I'd like to add is that if your team is behind, you'd love to just farm safely in your base and deny that gold exp to the enemy. Why?
Because if you're far behind, then they will be able to take dragon and baron regardless of what you do. So getting back into the game should be the main focus. Before 25 mins, it definitely makes it easier with inhib taken.
Phreak would've been my favorite math teacher in highschool man, love these videos. Thank you Mr phreak
As someone who just got into League I find your videos very informative and really appreciate the work you put into them 🙌🏻
Great stuff as usual, Phreak.
now THIS is the kind of stuff you are sooo skiled in . thank you phreak, subbed !
great video as usual, i think a point that's fair to bring up is the difference in exp and gold between your team and the enemy team. If you're ahead, you gaining 1500exp isn't nearly as good as them getting the same amount.
Are you a sales advisor? You 100% feel like a sales advisor. This is great, thank you for this learning experience.
in a way, instead of killing an early inhibitor and potentially losing a lot of gold and xp if you don't do anything with the map pressure
you might as well not kill it and instead leave the enemy with an open inhibitor, which is a decent amount of pressure in itself tbh
could listen to Phreak reading me numbers all day, love this content :)
Incredible presentation, playing since S5, great information. Much appreciated.
Oh this video format is awesome, would love to see more like this
Another important factor is the lane the inhib was taken.
If Baron is up, then taking bot inhibitor is much more valuable than taking top inhibitor. Vice versa with Dragon/Soul/Elder.
No, you like 90% of other people overestimate the power of a single inhib, a single inhib in botlane will ALMOST never result in anything, not even an extra camp. What IS more valueable though, is superminions from multiple lanes, even if it funnel more gold, getting 2 inhibs at roughly the same time will generally give you access to the entire map including nash and drakes
@@andreihlen7597 that has nothing to do with what he said,just that if baron is open then bot inhib is more valuable than top inhib due to travel distance
@@swordyshield No it's relevant, as I state even under those circumstances the inhib is more likely to do more harm than good. A single botlane inhib is not going to pressure enough to make the baron more likely. A single inhib > rotate to nash is 99% of the time the wrong call.
@@Noah55555 Nope, a single inhib does not cause any relevant pressure, your ignorance and stupidity is on you alone
Thank you Phreak.
Hope you make more of these videos!
Love the deep dives into the numbers
Maaan. I really wish we got to hear this Phreak on the broadcast. Not just the content, but the tone as well. It translates to both a more enjoyable listening experience and comes off as more knowledgeable. Would love this Phreak in the LCS.
Never even thought of this. Which is probably why i'm hard stuck in silver. Thanks bro.
Really great job, Phreak!
solid effort on the presentation, even writing a script
This is such good info. Thanks mate!
Hey man, no one goes in depth like you do, thank you so much for putting the time and effort into giving us quality content. I really appreciate it, and I'm sure so many others do to. Is there any way that you could please make the Dragon video you mentioned?
Hey Phreak,your an excellent dude & a great resource for all things League,I got it all wrong about you,keep up the good work man
Instructions unclear, let enemy team take Baron and our jungle in exchange for their inhibitor.
Thanks for the calculations!
I just copied the "no inhib before 20 min" benchmark because the pros did it without exactly knowing why it was better.
I think the math changes a little when looking at specifically which inhib. Killing the middle inhib doesn't prevent the enemy team from easily contesting baron as they can just push the middle wave and be close enough, killing the opposite inhib on the other side of the map the only player they can expend to keep the supers in check would be someone with teleport available opening up an easier baron for your team. I would like to see an analysis done over a great number of games and see the difference between base turret destroyed and inhib left, vs base turret destroyed and inhib destroyed mapped out on win rate vs game time to see how the decision maps out in actual winrate.
My intuition over the years was killing inhib pre 25 wasn't good unless it gets you baron/soul uncontested. Glad to see you crunch the numbers!
Phreak you are a hero we all dont deserve
Here before it's public
Edit: It's public now.
Yes thanks I was looking for exactly this simple chart of how many waves of playtime I have on the lane before the need to attend objective because noone seems to take attention to this.
Really really hard to pinpoint exactly when it's worth or not; inhibitor kills does grant your team immense pressure and vision control that could potentially set up a lot of picks onto champions as well (at least in SoloQ), depending on comp this could be absolutetly vital to secure the win. Still, the general rule of thumb "can we get baron off of this?" is still a good one to have in the back of your mind to be certain that it is a good play to destroy that inhibitor, and will hopefully make me think twice about an early inhib vs scaling compositions. Good video.
I would love more vids like this
we need more content like this.
The issue I see with the maximum potential for taking an inhib is this:
You can take enemy jungle even if you only get the inhibitor turret because that means you're likely on the winning side anyway and have more map control.
Not necessarily true, an inhib can be taken by a team thats even in the game or behind. Even in pro play, plenty of times we've seen situations where one team opts to push down multiple lanes maybe do a dragon while another trades it by rolling down only one lane going all the way to the inhibitor.
I think team compositions play a major factor. If you team has high pick potential and/or the enemy team is more team fight focused, where they kinda need all 5 together an inhibitor kill is much more worthwhile as you can leverage the map control better.
I really want to see a dragon breakdown video
This is why I believe that if you're losing your lane (gone 0/3/0 within 16 minutes or are just being completely zoned off) when/if you're level 6 you might as well leave and go help push another lane, as them getting 1300 (includes tower plates) "free" gold (+ whatever they get from the minion waves) is a lot less to snowbwll off of, instead of dying, giving them 300 - 150 extra golf around 6 times (which would at worst be 150x6 which is 900) + that 1300 anyway because you're dead, but now also so far behind the games pace. Leaving the lane and going somewhere else, would make you fall behind that particular person, but won't make you fall behind the games pace, just like how the bot lane might be lower level than top or mid, but they aren't behind the games pace where they have 0 impact.
Essentially what I'm saying is, if you've lost your lane, go to another lane before they lose their lane to because the winner of your lane roaming over to it. Rather than hoping your allies come save you, go to them and push top or mid lane as 2 (up to 3) or bot lane as 3 (up to 5) because if you can't win a 3v1 or 5v3 then you weren't winning that game anyway. If two lanes are losing, then you have to 4 or 5 man the lane that's not lost yet. If all 3 lanes are losing, then you follow the jungler, attack the camps as to speed up the full clear, then as 2/3/4/5 roam from lane to lane, catching waves, this isn't going hav you get fed, but it shouldn't have the enemy be able to 1v4 your team because of them 9 kills you gave them.
Sticking with person(s) who is the strongest on your team prevents them dying quickly, and you from being an easy target once again.
funny youtube recced this to me because my duo refuses to agree or understand the benefit of leaving inhib since in lower elo you cant make as much use of the time and space it gives as opposed to wiping the enemy team again and full ending. great video
Nice viedo.
Very very nice.
Really good stuff and while I thoroughly enjoy the patch notes videos, this sort of content has greater longevity. Dude at this point why don't you have some sort of Patreon or donation option?
So it's about timing if you get an early inhib make sure you have things you can get from map control :)
I'd love to see a video about souls
imagine playing league to not study, then you end up here. we just went full circle
Eeeeexcellent. Thank you.
I make this mistake all the time
Hi phreak, love your show. Could you do a video on magic pen boots vs cdr boots
beautiful video
I think something to add (maybe another video entirely) is controlling vision. I know you mentioned 3:1 jg quadrants in terms of gold/exp but I think denying/controlling vision while at least threatening to do baron/dragon is valuable because the enemy team might try to facecheck a dark jg brush you have control over, allowing you to get probably get a pick off. Not only gaining extra kill gold/exp (to make up for the lost super lane) but makes securing epic monster objective that much easier and probable. Since they would have to physically get close to try to contest or else unreliably hope to get a steal with a global ult.
Vision only matters if you gain something from it. This is included in the Objectives. Expecting mistakes lead to extra Kills is something that can happen infinitely and on both sides, so it doesn't really matter and should not be part of the Analysis. It should however be mentioned in the limitations.
would you mind doing a video like this on killing first turret and the gold it denies you if the wave is frozen? I've seen so many people talk about how bad it is to take first turret that I don't really know when it's good.
Holy sh*t! So good.. Insta subbed
Inhibitor is also worth 50g and makes nexus towers vulnerable, which is hard to translate into gold/exp but it's definetly a factor to consider
well the 50g is easy to consider
I was waiting on that, 'Tons of Damage!"
nice analysis!
this feels like a school project lol
I remember when I joined League of Legends in the end of season 1 and seeing this guy with this tons of damage puns. Decade later and he still looks the same like whose blood do you bathe in to age like that.
great stuff
Thank you Phreak!
Man, I wish more people would watch this
guy made a POWERPOINT!
You can share xp from minions, which result in even more xp gains (there's an xp multiplier ased on how many ppl is in range), but you can't share it from jungle camps !
Great video. I just wondered, will a RESULTS of 11.16 video be coming?
Good info can we get the drake vid? Maybe a baron/rift herald one too?
Phreak can you do a similar video to this but for grevious wounds? Looking for answers on why pros don't build it when there is so much more healing in game now and how effective is it when more people buy it instead of just one person like only the adc.
Think about it this way. If a chem item or grievous wound item gives 40% healing cut and a champion heals 100 Hp from life steal/Omni vamp/ etc. then you are only cutting 40hp. 2.67 gold is worth roughly 1 hp according to wiki and using chem punk chainsaw (2600 gold) you would need to prevent a little over 973hp before you make its value. This sounds fine but considering almost all champions synergise with items 1-3 they make more efficient usage of that gold as no adc is trading infinity edge for chem items. This does come with a caveat as the value of healing cut increases with the enemy team comp, if they have a Sylas, mundo, viego etc. then obviously grievous wounds is really nice but healing doesn’t get insane until 2 items+ so an adc would rather buy 2 items or 3 if they are fed then get a chem item. You basically need to think will this grievous wounds allow me to get an advantage that my normal item wouldn’t. If you’re an assassin mage then it would be more effective that you built pure damage because you can’t heal death, things like that. I was shitting on it pretty hard because many will just buy bramble vest or executioner and sit on it but I think the value should be considered when getting the item as a whole because leaving it in the pre item form and selling it is inefficient and makes no sense.
amazing content
Bold of you to assume I make it to the inhibs
well... in a solo environmentQ definitely taking the inhibitor early can cause problems due to lack of forced communication and the pressure of having to be proactive (even earning is quite exhausting) but in a competitive environment the best teams are able to use this inhibitor for set dives and increase the pressure on the other two routes, something that was not considered in the video is how an inhibitor can make it difficult to farm and experience sharing of the other two routes, especially at the beginning of the game when few champions alone can avoid so much dive and farm the entire wave of the remaining routes
I can't wait for the next video: Is Killing their Nexus Worth It?
love me some david phreak turley
As a member of the church of chovy, I approve of this video.
Tyvm Phreak
I knew this would be a good video when in the first one minute I heard "And they also deal tons of damage".
God I must be old :D
very nice thank you
Pretty good video 👌
God bless you phreak
"tons of damage"
but what if you're really fed, cant you like, use the pressure to get more towers, even if its early in the game? cus i played top once when i was like 7/0 with 2 towers down at like 14 min, i was 2 or 3 levels ahead of everyone and i decided to get tower and inhib, then went mid and got 2 towers there, which made my mid fed aswell, so i was thinking that was worth, but maybe it wasent?
Good ass video, bless up phreak
I'm probably late to this, currently in the beggining of the vid, but can't you just do a staystical analysis of the correlation between winrate and early inhib? Like you have all the data, its pretty interesting to see why doing it is good or not, but can't we know the answer for sure without the reason?
I feel like the importance of the why is being undervalued here. He probably could've just done a statistical analysis on those two factors and laid out a very simple answer, but I think knowing the why makes for more well-rounded, knowledgeable players that actually have the understanding to make this kind of decision in the middle of a game. Not only that, but just because you destroy an inhib early and it's "the wrong move" doesn't mean you lose the game, especially in lower elo matches. The players don't know how to close out a game, they parade their win around for 25+ minutes so the enemy can farm up and eventually end up losing the game if they don't get it together. At the same time, even if the early inhib was a bad call, it still comes down to individual skill levels and team coordination and doesn't always result in a loss. Then again, if you only look at high elo, it might be less skewed, but it's still possible to screw up at that rank and throw the game regardless. This seems like the best way to actually explain and educate players on the issues with unnecessarily taking early inhibs, not only that, but the average league player proves on a consistent basis that they have no understanding of the game mechanics and how they work so this kind of explanation is even more valuable. Educating the player base seems more important when you consider some of these factors.
You should do a video on surviving gap matchmaking.
I have been thinking about this topic a lot in my solo queue games and I have arrived at my own conclusion. Giving the opponent 720 gold in exchange for 5 minutes of locking a player down & having vision of the enemy base is completely and totally worth it unless your team is extremely far ahead. If your team is very far ahead then you can just plan for a single thorough game ending push at your own convenience, however, if the game is close (or losing) it's better to take the risk that the pressure from inhibitor will pay itself off through favorable vision and fights, and possibly even allows you to end through backdooring or crushing the other 2 inhibs and flooding the base. I don't actually think it's possible to crush an inhibitor too early.
Something you didn’t mention though is the ”value” you get from the mental anguish a 16 minute inhib causes. In soloqueue it is likely to cause them to tilt, flame, and even early surrender when they could potentially scale it out.
Aka feelings don’t care about your math
This is a bit of a niche scenario but if you have a herald and win a teamfight then you have to decide whether you can just end.
Only when you say so in /all chat
My rule of thumb....
Should you take mid inhibitor? Probably never worth it, because its really easy to fight off and you're just funneling money into the enemy team. Its nice to take if you're taking another inhibitor down with it though.
Top inhibitor? Sure if you're pressuring dragon or have enough pressure to decimate the bot side of the map.
Bot inhibitor? Arguably the best inhibitor to take because of it's distance from baron(unless soul point/elder is up then it really depends). If you have a chance to take it down 9/10 you should usually kill it.
This is really basic and doesn't fit every use case, but to sum it up. Kill Top inhib?(Bad early, but scales better the later the game goes). Kill Mid Inhib?(Usually never unless you can stack pressure into other lanes/jungle heavily). Kill Bot Inhib(Best Inihib to take and "should" usually always be taken due to its far proximity from baron)
I remember playing against phreak last season, I all chatted "you have no mana," then lost. Epic.
but... but... i like to watch it go boom tho....
almost everytime my team loses inhib early I think to myself yay free farm
i will always remember the LCS !
Honestly saw the title and thumbnail and expected this to be a joke.
It is very good.
i mean in my last ranked game the enemy nasus destroy our tier 4 turrets at 12 min and our nexus at 15 min so he destroyed the inhib way before nash spawn and still win the game( he was 32/1 at the end)