The Toyota GT86: The Sports Car We Deserve? (JDM Legends Tour Pt. 11)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 4 лип 2018
- For years, car journalists were crying out for an "old school" sports car - modest power, modest grip, light weight and rear wheel drive. In conjunction with Subaru, Toyota built it in the form of the GT86. But in the UK at least, it did not seem to sell in the numbers predicted. Most people complained the finished product lacked finesse - but why did it not sell, and should it have done better?
You can now help us in many ways:
Support us on Patreon here: / jayemmoncars
We have also partnered with UK insurance broker ADRIAN FLUX. With special policies for classic, performance and modified vehicles they have a great range of products and are a great choice if you're searching around for a renewal. If you call them on our special number, or mention JayEmm On Cars when calling up we get a small payment which helps the channel keep on ticking!
Just call them on 0800 085 6452 (UK Only)
...and if you've spotted a shirt in my video you like, there's a good chance it came from CLAUDIO LUGLI. Check out their site - www.claudioluglishirts.com and enter JAYEMM15 at the checkout for a discount on us!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Follow us on Social Media:
/ jayemmoncars
/ jayemmoncars
/ jayemmoncars
And if you LOVE driving, and are based in Europe, I am now running an events and track day company called Magnitude - sign up for their newsletter here!
landing.mailerlite.com/webfor... - Авто та транспорт
I'm pausing thus at 4:29 to comment.
In my opinion, 200-250 bhp is plenty...people pining for more power outta the GT-86 from the factory, don't understand what this car is about.
If Toyota, or Subaru were to turbo the car, yes it'd make more power, but lag and boost thresholds would upset the balance of the cars characteristics.
It'd also add to the cost of the car, and the extra 25 or 30 horses seen from anemic factory turbo's still wouldn't be enough power to "justify" the now increased price. People would still bauck about the performance and it "not having enough power" to justify the now $30k+ sticker price for the turbo option they wanted.
This car is a rolling museum of historical Toyota references most people can't/don't appreciate.
1. The boxer engine is a direct homage to the two-cylinder boxer engine of the Sports 800, Yota's first ever "sports car"
2. The dimensions of the side windows are identical to the Toyota 2000GT, a legitimate Japanese "hyper car" of its day, that was a multi-million dollar car in the 60's
3. The DS-4 fuel injection system is the evolution and reflection of the T-VIS found on the 4A-GE engine in the original AE86
4. The torque curve everyone whines about in the GT-86 is a result of the induction system, and mirrors the same torque dip found in the 4A-GE compliments of the T-VIS system
5. The 57:43 weight distribution is identical to that of the AE86 Corolla
This car was a "skunk works" project...it was developed behind Toyota board's back, this car's very existence is something special.
I don't think many people grasp how much heart was put into the GT-86, I don't own one, but want one terribly....
It dismays me to see how Toyota listened to what people wanted, and a lot of people feel it isn't "good enough".
I'm however one of those corny "romantic" enthusiasts who appreciates a vehicle for more than what's on the surface.
There are cars that are harbingers of new era's of automotive advancement, and cars that become icons, and cars like the GT-86, they're symbols and recognition of what once was, and the embodiment of a longing to get back there...a flesh-and-blood flashback if you will, that to me is why they can be so special.
It shows me that I as an enthusiast am not alone, and that companies can express the same longing I can.
I know it sounds absolutely crazy to say that, but I hope they continue production for a good long while, and I hope people will come to appreciate this thing for what it represents...not just what it is.
The great news, this is one of those cars most people WILL be afford to buy - they are a great deal second hand
@Johnny Keller- another you tube review said weight distribution is 53:47
No one on this planet has said it better. Thanks for sharing the wise words, and showing the facts to the world
Well said Johnny! Actually i didn't fall in love with my first gen UK GT86. I could appreciate there was an amazing handling car underneath but it was setup for me with too much of a loose rear end and the damping wasn't great.
Last month i picked up a 2019 BRZ and i have finally fallen in love with this platform. The car is much more planted and neutral and the damping is so much better! They seemed to have tweaked the steering too and feels heavier. I've had many a hot hatch and apart from a Clio Willaims which was a fantastic drivers hatch, people just don't get a true drivers car the Brz/86 is. It has feel and touch, balance where imo a fwd platform will never replicate...
My proposal early on was not to give it more power, but to give it stronger, forged, internals. Therefore the buyer can safely modify to a pretty realizable and reasonable amount. Or if not, let it run till it dies.
I love my 86. In over 20 years of driving no car has made me smile as much, even the ones I've had with more power.
Gt86 feel amazing indeed have you driven an mx5 platform? Not so good ride as gt86 but great fun as well!
Totally agree with you, the way a sports car feels is completely different to a hatch back. Even if it is slower than a fast hatchback on track, I think the sports car driver is having more fun.
As a 32 year old with a Corsa, this is my next car for sure, I grew up with the older MR2, Supra, Celica a Honda s2000 and it's nice to see a car like this again
Did you get one?
This car was the one that totally changed how I thought about cars. I hated my 135i after a test drive.
Did you get that feeling that you've been driving inadequate sofas instead of cars all your life too?
haha. kinda. i thought my bmw was small. I realized it wasn't. felt heavy and numb after.
Bmws are definetly more about comfort. While remaining tight (referring to our blue m240i) but the brz is raw.
I bought one new in ‘13 and I absolutely love it! I wanted something small, light RWD, with a retro-simplicity to it. I’ve done nearly 100k hard miles thus far and have had ZERO problems beyond normal wear parts. When the pads wore I continually replaced them with better, more track worthy bits; braided steel lines; lots of fresh Motul n the diff, gearbox and hydraulics; Mobil in the motor....a set of adjustable Teins all around and a track, muffler “delete” pipe (saving lots of weight) for more sound. At 75k miles I replaced the failed throwout bearing and put in a fresh clutch with lighter flywheel. I cannot even remember how many and what kinds of tires I’ve run through the car...lots! I’ve been thinking about getting a new toy, but honestly, without spending $60k I don’t think there’s anything I want which would give me what this car does. I drive it flat out everywhere and it’s a blast. My wife just put a deposit on a ‘19 Type R and my son has a Mark 7 GTI, so I have access to just about driving need in my garage. Great cars, these 86’s, damn shame auto-journalists don’t appreciate them more, damn shame. I’ll bet that in 10-15 years we will look back very fondly on these lightweight, small, great handling cars.
Here in Australia they are called a Toyota 86 (Eighty Six) or a Subaru BRZ (B R Zed). I've mostly always driven large 6 cylinder Australian cars and (as good as they are in their own right) I recently bought a BRZ and have fallen in love with it.
I just found out that I’m Japan it’s actually called the “Eight Six”. Cool little fact
I have just bought myself a new BRZ TS (the top spec Subaru version of the reviewed car). I have had it about a month. Without a doubt it is the most fun I have had on four wheels (I'm in my mid 50s). Brilliant car. It has plenty of power if you keep the engine on the boil: it's a bit like riding a two stroke motorcycle from that point of view. Third gear gets you to about 110 km/hr. Punting along a tight windy road where you can take fairly tight corners at about 80 km/hr accelerate to 100 before braking for the next corner has me with a continual grin on my face. Revs swinging from say 5500 to 7000 rpm. The TS version has brilliant sticky tyres as standard and it goes round corners faster than I thought possible for a road car. Absolutely, plenty of power. Doesn't need a turbo. Doesn't need a supercharger. No reason to add weight and potentially upset the perfect balance of this car. I say it again. Brilliant car. Thanks Subaru. Thanks Toyota. So pleased those companies teamed up to make this car.
I think the real big problem with the GT86 and perhaps why it didn't sell so well in the UK. Is the UK has a strong hot hatch culture. Hot hatch's with huge amounts of bhp and torque. Which in some cases can be had for less money and 99% of them being turbocharged they tune up easily for very little money. (Am not saying all of them but generally)
The other issue is absolutely the brand. If someone wanted to spend that much money they may be torn to buy a brand with a more "premium" badge, because hey my 320d m sport will get the neighbours talking.
I've often looked at the depreciation of them too and they are dropping at a steady rate of knots. No question they are fabulous cars and they cater to the "drivers type car" evidently there is more "hot hatch hooners" and "320d coupes with a m sport badge on the boot fans"
Shame.
Very true
Agree there. I'm 20 so would like to experience living with a fast car later in life. As you said you can get big horsepower gains from a turbo car. My 1.6 turbo diesel fiesta for example can get a 30hp increase from a map. A naturally aspirated car probably 5-10hp. I'm not sure but you probably get better mpg from a turbo car if your driving carefully. Was looking at the GT86 stats and it's not bad, 7.6 secs to 60mph, £250 tax and claimed 44mpg.
I'm personally starting to like the audi TTS. 5.2 seconds to 60mph, tax is just £250 and its claimed 47mpg. Its a lot faster but as cheap to run as the Toyota. Only thing I've noticed you can get a newer GT86 from 2012 - 2014 for the same price as a TTS from 2008 to 2012 with similar mileage.
The first two points were put across in the video
People look at 0-62 times and use that to judge if a car is quick. But all that tell you is roughly how quickly you can pull away from traffic lights.
Though the 7.6 figure on the gt86 is comically understated so don't let that put you off. Toyota have a bit of a habit of doing that, they did it with the Supras as well. The 86 has a similar power to weight as the Fiesta ST, you just need to rev it a lot higher which takes getting used to if your used to driving turbos.
But drive it and you see what it's about. The handling is perfect, it's comfortable on UK roads (amazingly for a sports car), looks good, easy to work on and mod, you can drift it at 15mph yet it corners like it's one rails. It's just....nice.
Zain K You cant compare the TT with an 86.
First the TT has quattro thus the better acceleration.
If you want a car to drive with a lot of involvement get the 86... If you want a snob car get the TT
And the TT is heavier... And when Something fails its Audi prices.
This car turns a quick drive to the corner store into a 3/4 hour blast down the twisties outside of town.
Haha! this is so true. It takes me much longer to get to the shops that it used to.
People who say this car is a failure are wrong. These cars are very popular and in 20 years they'll be the equivalent of the old S chassis
it is a failure. Boxer engines have a lower % of followers. Torque is what makes a car feel fast and with only 156 tq and 200 hp, its like a high rev honda engine, you have to rev the shit out of it to get power.
When you come with an engine that puts out a SYMMETRICAL power band, it feels faster. When i punch the gas pedal, i want it to MOVE ... Not have to wait for it to get to 7k or 8k to feel the power.
@@ACommenterOnUA-cam you do know that for a NA 2.0L that's actually really good right? The Honda s2000 made about the same torque on a 2.4L.
Your power band is all about the tune. It's tuned like shit for emissions reasons, which has been a problem for the old EJs as well in the past
@@invertedv12powerhouse77 its a failure... if you like it, go buy it.
@@ACommenterOnUA-cam I have one
@@invertedv12powerhouse77 i like the way they look, they just dont have the power i want. I test drove all 3 and they had nothing. I enjoy the power and spool of a turbo engine. Not to mention it has s boxer engine which i am not a fan of. As i said before, na or turbo, 200 hp from a 4 cyl in 2020 is pathetic, considering that my 2.4L put down 202 rwhp and 175 rwtq back in 2003 after serious mods and passing emissions ...
Thanks for getting it, for understanding the car, so few “auto-journalists” seem to. As a pure driving or drivers car, nothing compares at this price, nothing comes close outside of the Miata, but I don’t do convertible cars. So, there is this car and then the Porsche GT3, or Cayman.
Here in Canada, you can get a Mustang GT for almost the same price as a GT-86. If you went with the Ecoboost, you'd be in it for less than a GT-86 and still have more car. Toyota should be selling this car for half what they are.
Alfred Neuman good points, cars have just gotten so....large. The Mustang is such a big car by comparison to the 86’s, that puts it out of contention for me. The first things I look at are weight and actual physical size; Size and weight are my number one factors in choosing a sports car.
Alfred Neuman thats because we live next to the US with factories in our country, this car isnt produced that close
@@That_AMC_Guy To achieve that, Toyota would have to lower their QC standards and build it as crappily as the Mustang.
@@andycalifornia426 Well, my crappy Mustang will still toast your quality Toyota any day. So.... there's that.
Great wee car. Get over the fact it has 200bhp but rwd, very balanced, great seating position, gearbox and above all FUN.
I've owned a lot of sports cars in the last 10 years, including 3 Porsche's, an M3, an RX8, etc etc and I currently own an FRS. It's one of my favorite cars to drive despite the lack of power. The handling is amazing and you can really wake up the car with a few basic mods. The only major downside is the lack of a good sound when you rev it out. This is a car for drivers, and it rewards you for pushing it to the limit in the corners. I can't get enough of it.
How would you compare it the rx8?
@@tobythomas5079 The FRS is superior to the RX8 in most ways. It's got better handling, better fuel economy, and it's far more reliable (it also takes well to mods compared to the RX8). The main reason to own an RX8 is because you love rotary engines and you don't mind all the extra maintenance / costs associated with keeping the car running.
The best way to get into an RX8 these days is to find a car with a good chassis and a blown motor, then have the motor rebuilt so you're starting with a fresh engine. Expect to pay more than $5000 for a *proper* rebuild.
I believe good examples of the RX8 (the few that are left) will become collectors cars in the future, so that's why I bought another RX8 recently and spent the last year fixing and restoring it, which included a professionally rebuilt motor from a reputable rotary engine builder. Even though the FRS is superior to it (at least on paper), I find myself driving the RX8 more frequently because I love the rotary motor, unique driving dynamics, and the interior is a much nicer place to be. It's a blast to rev the engine to 9krpm. Not many other cars offer the same experience.
If you're willing to spend some extra time and money, the RX8 can be rewarding. However, I don't recommend it for most people because they don't understand what they're getting into, and can't afford to keep the RX8 on the road. The FRS offers a great value with Porsche like driving dynamics so that's my recommendation for most people. I've owned 4 Porsches in the last 5 years, and yet here I am with an FRS in my garage next to a Cayman (and previously a 911). That says something. The FRS is a worthy sports car and probably the best value out there.
I've had 3 rx8s so I know what you're talking about. How would you compare the driving dynamics with the rx8?
I absolutely love mine. I love the quality. It revs great. It handles brilliantly. It's light weight and so much fun.
I understand that on paper it doesn't look great... But it's all about the drive.
I know this video is now 5 years old Jay, but now having owned my 2020 GT86 for 2 years, I feel I can comment properly.
I feel it it is one of the best sportscars ever made.
More than enough power for it's intended use, as you say, so much fun to drive, reasonably comfortable, reasonably economical, and apart from passengers reasonably practical too.
I specifically wanted an automatic (sacrilege I know to some) as for everyday driving it's just so much more relaxing, and thanks to Toyota's electronic wizardry it is also one of the fastest changing torque converter autos currently in production.
(My logic, a good auto will always be able to change gear faster than I can lol, plus it has auto rev matching too)
Mine is totally standard, the only modification being plugging the sound tube into the cabin to make it quieter and I find if you drive it as it was always intended to be driven (revved out) there is no loss of power, and It will show a clean pair of heels to an awful lot of the "hot hatch" army.
I did get the chance to drive the new GR86, courtesy of my local Toyota main dealer, and to be honest I don't think I have missed out on anything.
Changing the subject slightly, I know you enjoy reviewing some of the rarer cars out there, and after doing a bit geeking, I have worked out (very roughly lol) that the exact make, model, year, spec and colour of my car is possibly only about one of only about 10 in the country, so if you were interested in doing a review, I'd be more than happy to let you have her.
Maybe i'm getting old.. But I'm more and more agreeing with something James May once said on topgear. (I believe when he tested the Panda..)
The sensation of speed is much more important than actual speed. You're not allowed to drive very fast anywhere anyways.. Might aswell make the legal limit entertaining.
Hes right
Review length and style spot on for me. You come across very naturally on camera and somehow compelling to watch when in reality it's just a guy giving his opinion on a car. Which ain't that unusual!! Guess the key is, you know what you are talking about and its honest. Goes along way... keep up the good work.
Thankyou Tom, very kind
i love your honest reviews, find mainstream channels are too dependent on their sponsors. keep up the great work!!
Thankyou
Very neat honest review. My partner and I love the GT86 so much we bought one each. You should come and join us at the Japanese sprint series to see how the various mods compare through the different classes of GT86 and potentially organise a drive for you. We even have a couple of Lotus turn up to give us a challenge.
owned mine now for 3 years would never change it! love it!
I always tilt my hat whenever I pass one of these on the road, a real head turner.
i always drop my head with disgust, boxer engine and only 200 hp .... so SAD while i'm passing them or crossing them in my 14 Genesis Coupe 2.0T with 305 rwhp.
Don't get me wrong, they look nice, they just have the wrong engine and no power for my taste
@@ACommenterOnUA-cam believe me, when youve driven one of these in mountains nothing else can beat you.
@@xXxUrbanNinjaxXx i dont live by the mountains, dont plan to live by the mountains, dont plan to drive in the mountains ... i am sure it CAN be beaten..
You Tube oh yeah for sure. If that’s the case this car serves no purpose for you. I think the cars cheap price second hand kinda shows it’s very specific use case. For me it fills it perfectly, and beating cars worth double the price Makes this car so worth it. I live in Washington with lots of mountains so it’s price is worth more over here.
@@xXxUrbanNinjaxXx that car is worthless to me. Boxer engines are NOT my taste & its only 200 hp and no turbo.
The ONLY thing about this car that is nice is when its dropped with nice wheels .. otherwise i have no use for it.
Wow im waiting for review this car on your channel! Thanks :D
This is an amazing vehicle. I've had my FRS for 3 years, slowly building it. Got new rims/tires, exhaust, tail lights. Some other cosmetic upgrades. It is extremely well balanced and handles incredibly. Would definitely recommend this car to any car enthusiasts or people that want a really well made coupe.
Great review. Thank you for understanding the car for what it is!
My pleasure
Another excellent review, Jay!
Thank you for saying what needed to be said about the intention of the 86, Tetsuya Tada said that when he spoke to people this is what car enthusiasts asked for
The best review ever of this car. Well played fella.
Nice review, and what a REAL drivers car, as you said, for real petrolheads..
Reviews are spot on.Very thorough.
Thankyou
I own one and i love it wholeheartedly! :D
Good work. Saw quite a few of these when i lived in Dubai. Not everyone can afford the top tier motors and with some simple mods its a great base car. Aching to see what the new Toyota Supra will be like. You took the Amish reenactment society in your stride.
Toyota have succeeded with this car, pity the public doesn't quite get it, interesting watchable review again - your efforts are well received, oh and its just the right length of video despite a comment to the contrary I saw.
Biggest issue I had with my GT86 was the ridicilous amount of noise in the cabin. At highway speeds I had to sit there and shout in order to have a conversation with the person next to me.
Apart from that I loved it, the balance and the seating position make for such a fun car. The torque dip didn't bother me too much, and it can be resolved with a tune anyway.
Went from the GT86 to an RS4 which obviously is significantly faster, but I still kinda miss that little Toyota.
The Celica Gt4 was a beast of a car. Owned a UK model one for around 4 years in 2011. Really miss that car tho big time. Reason for sale was as I am 6ft plus and have a bad back was very awkward to get in and out as very low. Plus got a baby girl too so mission for a baby seat in the back. Fantastic review tho!!! 👍
My BRZ is a dream to drive in TARGA NL. We won second place, Congratulations Toyota /Subaru, thank you for your support. Doing great in the slalom too.
For a car that "didn't do well" because it's "underpowered" due to "needing a turbo," I see an awful lot of these on the road and very few owners who regret the purchase. This is an entry level sports car. It doesn't need more power because the driver hasn't learned to use the power it already has. Twin screw kits are available if you want another 30-50% without supporting mods, e85, forged internals, etc. Maybe someday I'll buy one, but I'm happy with my stock motor, lowered front and 255/40/r17 summer tires.
Love Toyota !
They provide engines for Lotus 😂👍
I’ve been out of a Lotus for Two years now however did a scare yourself sensible experience last Sunday. The best fun you can have with your clothes on
Deffo one for my garage at some point
Great video J
Knew you'd enjoy one of these on UK roads. I'm surprised you didn't specifically mention the driving position, I think it's excellent!
You are right. It is.
:D @ 16:43, is that an MCM sticker on the mirror..... love it :)
Turbocharged ? No, thanks !
I bought that car ( Subaru BRZ) because it was NOT turbocharged. As an old Porsche for example.
great review
Yes I know this was 4 years ago. This review reminds me a lot of why I bought my Porsche 944. Lots of feel and fun at reasonable speeds
Another great review Jay , thanks. If I can be a little critical now I've gone through and watched a large number of your generally excellent reviews , I think it would add to the great information you give us if we could have some better video of the car, interior, boot, engine bay and dash layout as the format of video can get a little boring at times, that exhaust shoot especially as I was waiting in vain for a spit of flames ;). Thank again and looking forward to your Exige Mk1, Mk2, Mk3 back to back review and especially the review of the NA Exige V Exige S. ;)
Cheers Tom. I will see what I can do, I generally avoid workarounds for cars like this where everyone is familiar, just for the sake of keeping the runtime down
Fair point . Keep up the great work.
Yup, got a second gen, completely stock, brz, I could not be
happier with it
JayEmm, what do you like better as a daily driver, the 86 or the 350z?
"Loads and loads of space" Yes we here in the US have road sides with ditches, and you have walls! LOL
What do you think would be a more fun daily driver, 86 or 350z HR?
Like you say, they seem to have done pretty well in USA, see plenty of them around in the SF Bay Area.
Andrew Austerfield Yeah, they rule the roads in California. Muscle cars and 86 Triplets everywhere.
I agree, love my GT86 which I came to after the 200SX rusted out. The only thing lacking is torque at 4000rpm which the turbo provided; you just need to maintain speed through the corners and not rely on booting it.
Don't even need that, just a UEL catless manifold and tune evens out the torque and makes it much more responsive.
Hi James surprised you didn't compare this with the ND mx5 you drove last year I have driven both and purchased the mx5 because it felt more like a sports car and was slightly faster and funner, great video mate cheers
Thanks Dan, it has been so long since I drove the MX5 and in such different conditions it would not have been a fair comparison
I checked out the MX5 before I bought he GT86: the main differences were the interior finish of the mx5 is lovely, far superior, but although I could live with the slightly claustrophobic feeling (i'm 6') there's not nearly enough storage space for a decent road trip whereas the GT86 has stacks of room when you fold down the seats, and although some of the materials are not the best, there's nothing wrong with the build quality. Also I drove a GT86 round Silverstone as part of a "Ferrari experience" and it was impressive - it may not be hot-hatch fast, but it's fast enough. Finally, the MX5 is slightly too soft cornering, the 86 is absolutely spot-on
the mx5 is a beautiful toy. it is very well made. It has no storage and only 2 seats and no weight in an accident. I would buy the hardtop model in a heartbeat though, it's beautiful in all ways.
Hey nice vid. I haven't read all the comments but I'd be surprised if no one hasnt mentioned the S14a 200sx. For me the gt86 is nearly a modern interpretation... But the 200sx is so much better! More tunable, better looking, faster, better sounding (with the right exhaust and breathing). Now that is a proper drivers car in the affordable segment...well for the timebeing until those in the know buy them all up....sshhhh. with a few choice mods they become proper giant slayers ;) if you haven't tried one, try one!
Late to this video, and contemplating buying an 86 - Heard some great things about it and will be my first Toyota. I do care greatly about cabin quality and feel... Is it passable in this car, or a bit Dacia esk? I want that gear shifter... Does he sell any? lol
I'm astounded to hear you say the 86 wasn't a run out success. They are everywhere in America and in Australia when they were released, there was a waiting list 12 to 24 months long! For a Toyota!!
P.S. Keiichi Tscuchiya filmed a commercial for it in the outback. (NT or NSW)
I'm picking up a gt86 soon and you mentioned removal of the second cat , does this increases the sound ? as I don't want it loud ,
So, i own a 2008 Stage 1 TTS STronic. I can do a straight swap for one of these, manual.
I owned an R34 before so i do miss the manual rwd layout.
Thoughts?
They do cheap versions (or used to) of a lot of japanese sports cars. Mistubishi made the Evo RS that came in white, with steelies and crappy calipers from the factory, and a base Subaru Type RA came likewise equipped. Great idea and wish it had been extended here.
I absolutely love my 86 in every way 💕
Its an amazing car honesty I switched to this after driving nissan micra for a year cause of insurance prices idk about the lack of power but its amazing in corners even icy weather with standard tyres sliding it is so fun if you buy it you won't regret it
But Yeah be careful don't try to drift on main roads unless you know what you're doing and there's gotta be abandoned car parks you can practice on
What you mentioned is the RC grade level. It's meant for those intending purposely track the car. It has unpainted bumpers and mirrors with no AC or other amenities.
Also, why is a titanium knob heavy? Titanium is known for being very lightweight, I can lift a titanium catback exhaust with a finger. Perhaps a misspeak?
TBH AFAIK it's a success in North America and Japan, and even in China where these kinds of cars are very niche there's a strong following. From talking to people around me, I feel many young self-acclaimed 'petrol heads' in the UK nowadays are far more interested in figures on paper and premium badges (people here seem to equate 'German car' to 'premium' to 'done well in life'). The state of insurance here means most of them only had a taste of hatches in their 20s, and all they'd imagine about a 'fun car' is 'more power' as these kinds of stuff they drive ATM are so gutless. The state of car prices here as well as the PCP culture, the peer pressure, means by the time they could afford something more expensive, all they'd want is something with a posher badge, such as an Audi or BMW, and conclude they are the 'most fun' ever (of course they are compared to their previous cars). That means cars like GT86 will never ever be considered or tried, so how could they know what they've never experienced? One of my colleagues driving a Seat Ibiza laughs at me as he believes all old cars are rubbish and unreliable, and that only German 'sports cars' are worth looking at... That's said I'm also glad about this, as this means GT86 here still are relatively affordable (uninflated), and are not as commonly trashed as some of the other cars.
Nevertheless, writing this as the sequel of Initial D is coming soon (MF Ghost), and from the trailers the GT86 will have a good amount of role - let's see if it will make me buy one.
Great review of the 86. Can you say something about the mods wich where made? Sounds like there is an aftermarket header installed
Nope, exhaust mod is just a custom catback.
Jay
Love your videos. As usual, an entertaining point of view on about something we all can’t get enough of - cars!
Well done keep it up mate
Thankyou Mike
The car is faster than the best model IROC-Z with 350 cc engine and TPI and 5 speed. Yet, people bitch about the speed. It is faster than most of the corvettes of the 60's. It also has a very potent sub 3200 rpm torque for city driving without having to keep rpm's high. new BRZ GT86 5 more horse and torque is also geared better and tweaked just right.
I would likely buy one of these if I had the cash.
I would have hoped that a non-premium badge sports coupé like this would have sold better.
Not sure if this has been said already in comments, but I'm quite confident that the key reason it didn't sell well in the UK is lack of competitive lease deals. The ~300bhp hot hatches that are dominating our roads now can mostly be had for £300/month and I've not seen a GT86/BRZ deal come close to that, despite having lower sticker prices than the Leons, Golfs, etc. I personally love the GT86 formula, and I can see us picking one up in the next few years when the current facelifted ones (much nicer interior) start floating around on the used market.
The lack of boxer sound was the first thing I noticed about these cars , the look okay but I'd much rather spend my money elsewhere. Great review tho James 👌👍
Missed opportunity then. With a good intake/exhaust these things come alive.
I looked at getting one of these at the time they were released, my issue was the very basic low quality interior. I compared it to my Integra Type R which whilst it has more than 200,000kms on the clock has a quality interior, titanium gearknob, genuine Recaros and even after 200,000kms was still a nice place to drive in. I just couldn't imagine the interior standing up to normal daily use and it just didn't feel like a special place to be.
The mk2 is a bit better
That's good to know, potentially a second hand mk2 could be a compelling track car and daily driver which with its relative low power would have limited consumption of tyres and brakes on the track and would protect your drivers licence as a daily driver.
Enjoyable video btw. Enjoy your content which is a bit more down to earth in terms of content and without too much bias.
the teggy is in a totally different league in my opinion, way nicer interior and the engine is actually not all that powerful in say the dc2 BUT its the way the power is delivered... it smashes on with vtec where as this thing just limps through the rev range.
A daily driver for a 59 yr old Scouser in Texas, lorra lorra fun!
70k+ on my '14 FRS. Only issue is replacing the spark plugs, that is gonna require a trip to the dealership. Upkeep is not bad, and I get 24 city and 36-38 highway. It's a 2 + 2 so the insurance is waaaaay lower than an mx-5 or any other roadster (this from a driver in the States). My previous car was a ford focus st, 4 door model ... getting the scion raised my insurance by less than $10 a month.
Apparently the main diff between the Subaru and the 86 was the Subaru engine is like 5mm higher to make spark plug access easier
It's really know as a Hachi Roku. I believe that's Japanese for '86' ... they've made them for years and they're a bit of a legend over there.
Have a watch of 'the drift bible'
Looking forward to your thoughts on the new supra and alpine a110 when you can get your hands on them!
I would love to!
Ahh the Alpine 110, 50hp odd more than the GT86, over £20,000 more expensive and has arguably a worse quality interior. I hope the build quality has improved after the one Chris Harris had on Top Gear burst into flames. Makes the GT86 look like a bargain. I think people forget the expense involved in bespoke Sports car chassis and rear wheel drive gubbins/ diffs etc.
I was trying to think of cheaper 2+2 alternatives to an Evora or 911 that would still good to drive and wondered if you had ever reviewed a GT86/BRZ and here we go. Ignoring the lower power how would you say it stacks up for feel and chassis response compared to an Evora or 911? Power can be helped with a supercharger kit anyway.
Totally different feel to them both, the Evora actually drives more like a rear engined car than a mid. The 86 is a great steer but ultimately it falls short of the Lotus. That's nothing against it though, the Lotus is twice the price
Thanks for the reply, I have an Elise like kit car, but I'd like something my wife will go in and with room for the dog which means I'd get to drive it more often than the kit. Ideally something that could be used to go on holiday too, hence a 911 in the mix as being more practical, but it still isn't a Lotus. A GT86/BRZ might be a good enough drive given the comparative cost, I'll have to go and try sitting in one to see if the steering wheel is close enough to my shoulders when my bum is far enough from the pedals without having to have the seat back bolt upright like most cars. Sorry, minor rant.
First time i saw this car was almost 2 years ago on the motorway when i was doing a 3 months field work job travelling up and down the UK. I thought hmmm... that looks nice, its a Toyota but what model. I went on google and typed in Toyota sports car looool and the gt86 popped up and going by the look i was like 'yep, thats the one'. Ever since then ive been doing my homework and its a must i need one.
Got the privilege of seeing one parked next to me the other day at Lidle car park. Soon getting a par rise at work and when that happens its a wrapnim getting one of these cars.
Love the GT86
I think it perfectly encapsulates what the 86 was and now is, it wouldn’t feel right if it had a ton of hp only thing I don’t like honestly hate is that it’s a boxer just why like I get it great engine balance and all but it’s a time bomb the moment you put any major amount of boost still love the car I think out of all the revivals this car is the best
UK doesnt appreciate NA RWD sports car for driving pleasure, technical driving skill, potential for drifting fun. Rather, they want hot hatch, turbo so increase HP. That being said, here in America, I love the GT86, and so many friends of mine have it !! I plan on getting one soon as a secondary car. Right now, I need my daily driver LEXUS IS 4door TURBO
Why did you have to tell us what your daily was? Also why did you put it IN CAPITALS like it’s an amazing car?
An IS is a boring average pos that can be bought for a couple hundred euro over here so putting it in capitals like it’s badass is fucking cringeworthy.
I don't know if you take requests as such but I would love to know what you think of the new Suzuki Jimny if/when you can get your hands on one.
That is an unusual request, I will ask Suzuki
Mundane in the grand scheme of things I know but I (and quite a few others it seems) are oddly excited about it. It hasn't officially launched yet but from what we have seen it is a great looking little car with some calling it a baby G-Wagon. Between the new squared off Jimny and the fairly recent Ignis I think Suzuki is breaking away from it's typical conservative nature somewhat.
@@JayEmmOnCars any news on that?
I'd like to see that as well.
Do take it on an offroad day or something and not the usual bendy bits. It isn't much fun for that.
Might be good exposure to the offroad community as weell for your chanel.
12:07 We know what channel he watches on UA-cam haha
For the 2017~ Toyobaru facelifts, they really should've eliminated the torque dip that these FA20s have at circa 4000rpm. I know that the MX-5 ND 2.0s are at least 100kg lighter and have shorter gearing but they still manage to feel just as fast to accelerate as these toyobarus - despite having 40hp less or something. Although you can quickly get an ECU remap+aftermarket exhaust and solve that said problem. It doesn't desperately need over 300hp, but a better torque curve would really make the driving experience better. However unlike the MX5s, I do like that you can put several tyres and jack stands in the rear compartment for track/drift days, as demonstrated by Chris Drift youtube channel
The MX-5 is a much softer sports car though, aimed more at the masses rather than petrolheads. They don't feel the same at all really.
I'm an Idiot I never said 'they feel the same to drive'. And anyways, heard of spec-miata? They put different suspension and make other modifications to make them competent racecars
These things are a pretty specialized car for the money and it is great that you can get a RWD sports car at this price.
Here in Australia they under cut the 2L hot hatches by quite a bit.
+Michael Mackey Agreed,. Before the 86/BRZ came out in 2012, I'm sure most of us thought that the affordable-japanese-sportscar-era was over but thank goodness, we live in a day where these cars exist. Thats interesting - in the UK, they are priced around the same (if not more) than most hothatches with 230hp+. But i'd still take these japanese RWD cars anyday over the FWD turbocharged hatchbacks if i'd want the ultimate driving experience!
Yea in the UK the GT86 was considered a bit expensive. You can get a Focus ST for about 20k, at one point they were selling Fiesta STs for 16k
I like these. Still waiting for them to get a bit cheaper. They really deserved to sell more.
A budget sportscar, good marketing idea tbh
I live in Porsche Land...
not kidding, every old lady here drives a Porsche.
Some guys too.
And there is one thing I like to say (as a Subaru BRZ owner)
"It's better to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow."
(dropping the Mic leaving the Stage ... :D)
P.S. 90% can even handle a car right with "just" 200 HP
Just like with the RX8, this car it’s somewhat misunderstood because It’s a driver’s car... not about top speed or brutal acceleration, but balance and handling dynamics.
the RX8 is a road car that happens to be sporty. The RX7 is a sports car. Lots of people know this and dont like the RX8.
@@wPJyat the rx8 is definitely a sports car. It’s been touted as one of the best chassis in any price point, and the engine screams to 9000 rpm. It’s a shame the wankel rotary had terrible reliability, but the RX8 chassis is sublime and a true sports car.
If only it could match my S2000...
I test drove one and it was a really nice drivers car, just could do with another 50 bhp. It runs out of steam at the top-end and I ended up thinking "is that all you've got to give"?
Just the lack of power lets it down, otherwise a great car.
A supercharged version would be on my shopping list for sure.
debatable, why don't you supercharge it yourself?
86 have the best design for spot car . I have Toyota 86 2017 and my opinion. This car is beautiful for drifting , but for raising on Autobarn ,need 50 or more hp. Is very disappointed when corolla or another small car is similar....
I had one. it was really fun to drive, but not very well made. Mine had sticky 2nd gear.
Good enough for Keiichi Tsuchiya
wow.. i would love to buy the version with steelies and unpainted bumper
it is perfect base car
Agreed that it would make more sense to sell these over here as plenty of enthusiastic car modifiers would rather have a newer car than an old rusty Nissan etc. I even told the head of Toyota UK sales this at Goodwood two years ago, it didn't make financial sense to track a modified £30+k car. We need this cheaper option. Still waiting. !
Mark Gosnold same in my country too. there r lots of enthusiast would love to mod one. with cheaper price base car it would bring more sale for toyota
What do you enjoy driving more, the 86 or a 240z?
240z
Like your reviews been watching for a while. I think the reason people do not buy them is due to the price when there are mx5s and bmw compacts for silly cheap money the gt86 seems a very expensive choice for light weight usable performance rwd cars
Also what happened to the MG ZS ??
Would like to see more of it on the channel
It's a shame we are now of an era of electric steering and turbo charged flappy paddle everything
Would like to see you do reviews on the likes of the focus st170 maybe an NB mx5 mini Cooper 1.6 naturally aspirated r53-r56 Ford puma 1.7 clio 172-182 e46 330i/330ci ( manual ones )
There are many gems out there for "drivers" I think these are a good list of the top of my head at this time of night I am sure there are many more
Hit me a message if you ever want a chat
The ZS is still around, it is being prepped for a big trip!
Best decision I've ever made was buying my facelift Toyota 86!
Nineteen96 Worst decision was selling my FR-S!
In hence this a new 86 brought to us from the 90s instead of initial d
I disagree about the tyres. I run the cheapest 225s on my street rims because it's so fun to flick the tail out all the time. If you want to experience laws-of-physics-defying grip, then get a spare set of wheels shod in r-specs and do a track day. But for street, my recommendation is hoonability.
Hey Jay, have you heard about Subaru returning to the uk with the WRX STI?
Nope
@@JayEmmOnCars read a car throttle article not too long ago saying subaru will release a tuned FA24 unit producing 400bhp to combat european hatchbacks
the thing is you can buy 90s legends with the money you buy this 90s cars have a lot more feeling and character celica gt4 Mr2 200Sx 180sx etc etc etc
Very true but they do come with classic car problems
true
Toyota making a comeback with rwd cars:D
U know what for it is made if u know Initial D and MF Ghsot.. That's all what U have to know.
The Power is not so important than the handling. I have it all 350, Evo, Mx5, gt86, Celica... Don't need much power to have a lot of fun
How does it compare with a MX-5 MD? I can't help but see the similarities in the kind of car they want to be.
I feel the same, I'd say this needs higher final drive and better tyres, the MX-5 needs coilovers to be about equal cars.
After that it's a matter of preference if you go for the 2-seater roadster or 2+2 coupe.
Also, the MX-5 interior looks nicer.
The gt86 does have noticeably sharper handling. Also an LSD and extra chassis bracing as standard. It drifts WAY easier as well.
You'd need to spend quite a lot of money to get the MX-5 on par with the stock gt86 for handling tbh. Stick coilovers etc on the gt86 and you probably won't be able to match it.
I have owned MX5ND and 08 Cayman and now BRZ - the Cayman feels lardy and is not as progressive at the limit but solid and chunky. Mx 5 a great 8/10ths car, but very cramped, and the dynamics fall apart when you really push it. BRZ - the harder you push it the better it gets :)
They are lovely little cars. In some ways, they are (almost) a through-back to the car of my youth: 240Z. A different firm of course and there was nothing like that stunning car for the price of a MGB GT. Now there is so much more choice to the GT86. I hate comparisons with the Toyota 2000GT which was stupidly expensive (much more than the much faster E-type). I am old and drive Golf GTIs because I don’t want to look a tit in a GT86. Shame that we grow old and are so conscious of it.
Bugger what anyone else thinks, I'm 56 and I've got one as a second car. It's a giggle and smile factory, the sort of car that you make excuses to drive, and you always take the long way home, just because you can. Just don't get it in red, that's when one looks like a tit.
What year model is this gt86