I've watched for the 1st time the LOTR trilogy, few months ago. And it is so rich I wanna read the book and fall in the universe. And now I'm just having an obsession for Sindarin, having an urge to learn it lol. Thanks for your vids 😊
will there be another episode? I would like to learn how to say "I love you", "you're welcome", "help me", "what do you mean?", "are you ok?" and other things in Elvish too Thanks for this series by the way! They're really helpful!
"I love you" translates: *Le melon* or *melon le.* "You are welcome" (as when you're welcoming a person) would translate, literally: *Le maedollen* (or you could say just *maedollen* "welcome"). "Help me" (when meaning "save me") translates: *Natho nin.*
4:00 - Since there is no attested verb "to trust" in Sindarin (we have the noun *estel* "hope", "trust" and the verb *hartha-* "to hope"), resourcing to the invented verb *estelia-* (imperative *estelio* ) is a way to circumvent this lack. But I think it would be better to extrapolate the Sindarin cognate to the Quenya verb *sasta-* "put", "place" and use it in a sentence like "have trust on me" (= "trust me"). In this case, the verb stem in Sindarin would happen to have exactly the same form as in Quenya, *sasta-.* The imperative form would be *sasto.* Thus, our sentence would render: *Sasto estel bo nin* "put/place trust on me" (= have trust on me). Alternatively, it would also be possible to use the gerund of *hartha-* in place of *estel:* *Sasto harthad bo nin* "put/place hope on me". 4:37 - *Noro i roch lín!* uses the formal personal adjective *lín* "your". In case you want to address the other person informally, the personal adjective for "your" would probably be *cín* , corresponding to the informal pronominal ending *-ch* "you", which is added to verbs ( *lín* corresponds to the formal *-l* ). And, as an adjectival word, *cín* would be lenited (as any adjective directly following the noun it describes), becoming *gín.* *Noro i roch gín!* "Ride your horse!". 6:13 - *Am man harthach?* (or with formal "you": *Am man harthal?* ) would translate "why do you hope?", also "why are you hoping?". Since there is no attested Sindarin for "why", we could resource to paraphrasing and use *am man* , literally "for what" as a way to circumvent this gap ( *an* "for", "to" becomes *am* by assimilation of the following *m-* sound of *man* ). As an alternative, we coud use *amman* , as a single word, but I would rather go with *am man* . A word for "still" or "yet" is missing in the sentence in Elvish (if the intention is to say "why do you _still_ hope?", it would be better if it had one). Unfortunately, there is no Sindarin word which demonstrably has this meaning. But there is *eno* , which _apparently_ means "still". It is seen in the last line of Túrin Wrapper, *ar in Ellath epholar eno vi Eressai* , which would translate "and the Elves remember(?) still in Eressëa" (the meaning of the verb *ephola-* is uncertain). Assuming *eno* means "still" (and, in fact, it could be related to Quenya *en* "still", seen in *quetir en* "they still say"), we are going to use it in our sentence: *Am man harthach eno?* (with informal "you") / *Am man harthal eno?* (with formal "you") "why do you still hope?", "why are you still hoping?".
0:58 - Besides *beleg* (which changes to *veleg* via soft mutation a.k.a. lenition, because it is an adjective which is immediately folloing the noun it modifies), another Sindarin word for "great" is *daer* (which would also mutate, becoming *dhaer* ). So, the saying could also be: *Caro naid dithin na veleth dhaer* "do small things with great love". 2:04 - Here we have the word *meth* (which undergoes lenition, changing to *veth* , due to the preceding *i* "the"). But this word is actually the adjective "last". The meaning "end" is given for the word in Noldorin (see * , below). The Sindarin word for "end" is *methed* (Quenya *metta* ). Rewriting the quote: *Sí na i vethed, i vethed naid bain.* "Here at the end, the end of all things". * In this case, "Noldorin" does not refer to the Quenya dialect spoken by the Noldor, but to the older name Tolkien gave to Sindarin in an earlier stage of its development. In its eaerliest version, the language was called Gnomish. Then, as Tolkien continued to develop it, he changed its name to Noldorin, or Exilic Noldorin. Until this point, his idea was that it was the language spoken by the Noldor and that it evolved separated from Quenya across the Sea, only coming to Middle-Earth whith the Exile of the Noldor. But he eventually realized that it couldn't be so different from Quenya, given that both languages evolved in close proximity, in Aman (Valinor). So, he decided that it was, instead, the langauge of the Grey Elves (or Sindar, in Quenya), changing its name to Sindarin, and that the Noldor spoke Quenya (as the Vanyar, in Aman). 3:10 - The gerund *tírad* should be lenited ( *dírad* ) because "to see" functions as the direct object (a verbal complement which doesn't come with a preposition)) of *anírach* "you want". Also, the conjunction "which", "that" (which introduces the second clause), represented by *i* in Sindarin, is missing. It may be dropped in English (you can say "be the changes which/that you want to see in the world" or "be the changes you want to see in the world"), but it is supposed to be used in Sindarin. With these corrections, the proverb would render: *No i brestanneth **_i_** anírach **_dírad_** vi amar.* Last, it is also possible to use *cened* rather than *tírad* ; and perhaps better too, since the verb *cen-* has the precise meaning "see" ( whereas *tíra-* rather means "watch"), although it is only attested as element in *cenedril* "looking-glass" (= mirror); which appear to contain the gerund *cened* "seeing" and *rill* "brilliance", "light" (the long/double *-ll* becoming a short/simple *-l* , as it usually happens to long consonants in the end of compounds in Sindarin). Of course, *cened* "seeing" must be lenited (as for *tírad* "watching"), changing to *gened.* *No i brestanneth i anírach gened vi amar.*
There is no problem I had with acquiring the knowledge and the skill in combination with the willpower to complete this task...... *ekhem* No problem, broh ;)
So I’ve seen some phrases other people say that have words seemingly not in the place of the English translation so how do you know where to put words?
*Gwend* (on 2:29) actually means "maiden", "young woman". There is no attested Sindarin word for "friendship". We only have Quenya *nilmë.* But we can reconstruct its Sindarin cognate: Likely *dilith* (explanation below). So, rewriting the saying: *Dilith sui lotheg i edlothia an-uir* "friendship is a flower that blooms forever". How I came to *dilith* ? Quenya *nilmë* "friendship" consists of a Primitive Elvish root, either _NIL or NDIL_ , and the suffix *-më.* In the beginning of Quenya words, both _NIL_ and _NDIL_ appear as *nil-.* But given words like *Elendil* "Star-friend", "Lover or Student of Stars" and *Eärendil* 'Sea-friend", "Sea-lover", which have *-ndil* with the meaning "friend", "lover" as second element, I would say *nilmë* probably has the root _NDIL._ In Sindarin, in the beginning of a word, _NDIL_ appears as *dil-* , since archaic _nd-_ becomes *d-* in this position in Sindarin, as in *dôr* "land", seen as second element in *Ennor* "Middle-Earth" (literally: "Middle-Land"), where *-nd-* changes to *-nn-* for phonological reasons (the Quenya cognates are *nórë* "land" and *Endórë* and its shorter form *Endor* "Middle-Earth"). In the end or in the middle of a word, after a vowel, _NDIL_ appears as *-ndil* , which becomes *-nnil* (due to the regular change from *-nd-* to *-nn-* in Sindarin), while after a consonant it appears as *-dil* , as in *Gaerdil* (the Sindarin cognate to *Eärendil* ) - there are variations of this name, such as *Gaerdilion* and *Gaerennil* (the latter uses a connecting vowel *-e-* between *gaer* "sea" and *-ndil* - and, again, *-nd-* becoming *-nn-* ), as well as experimental Sindarinized forms like _Aerendil_ and _Aerennel._ The Quenya suffix *-më* is used to form abstract nouns, and is seen in words such as *melmë* "love" or *cilmë* "choice", for example (the latter is not attested as a standalone word, but probably occurred as such). It evolved from primitive _-mē_ , which, according to Parma Eldalamberon 17: 68 (#), is used to derive nouns denoting "a single action" - which matches the meaning of *cilmë* "choice" (although *melmë* "love" would normally be something that lasts, rather than "a single action"). [# Parma Eldalamberon and Vinyar Tengwar are periodics in which new material on Elvish is published from time to time.] The Sindarin equivalent is *-th* , seen in both abstract and concrete nouns; for example, *meleth* "love", *gweneth* "maidenhood", *cirith* "cleft", "ravine", "defile", "pass" or *firith* "fading", also "autumn". With this, we have the necessary elements to reconstruct what would likely be the Sindarin cognate to Q. *nilmë* : The Primitive Elvish root (it is probably better to use _NDIL_ - which appears as *dil-* initially) and the suffix *-th* . Putting them together, the resulting word is *dilith* "friendship" ( *-th* being preceded by an *-i-* , as in *cirith* , *firith* , etc. - whereas in *meleth* , *gweneth* , etc. it is preceded by an *-e-* instead).
Talad sounds like salad 😂 I think I'll be completely wrong but to me it sounds like some kind of weapon - like arrow or something haha. Let's see... Ooh, slope? Mkay I will remember for when we go to Italy the next time :> I say you are underrated. Like VERY underrated.
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Check out other episodes!
ua-cam.com/play/PLQHSRyyyJzwkNOZdKkSV4wdsJ1tLjIwjn.html
Thank you for doing these videos, they’re really helpful
I'm really glad you like them, it means a lot :)
I've watched for the 1st time the LOTR trilogy, few months ago. And it is so rich I wanna read the book and fall in the universe. And now I'm just having an obsession for Sindarin, having an urge to learn it lol. Thanks for your vids 😊
Oh yeah, I know what you mean about the LOTR Universe ;). Thank you (and btw, look out for something new rn).
Extended or Disappointing edition?
thanks for these videos, you are the only one who helps me learn elvish😄
Oh thank you, check out some resources I've linked to learn some more, tho 😉
I liked this intro lol!
Thanks again for this video! Always as useful and entertaining! Can't wait for the next!
I like doing these intros lately haha, thank you!
will there be another episode? I would like to learn how to say "I love you", "you're welcome", "help me", "what do you mean?", "are you ok?" and other things in Elvish too
Thanks for this series by the way! They're really helpful!
Thank you for the kind words, and yeah, I'm planning on doing another one or two episodes at the moment, but I'm working on something new right now ;)
Artreii ok, and thank you again! I really love these vids and speaking to my family in Elvish! Keep up the great work!
"I love you" translates: *Le melon* or *melon le.*
"You are welcome" (as when you're welcoming a person) would translate, literally: *Le maedollen* (or you could say just *maedollen* "welcome").
"Help me" (when meaning "save me") translates: *Natho nin.*
Hannon le mellon nin, keep on doing more Elvish videos 😀
Lets get it, love this vid 🔥👌
Thanks, it really means a lot to me :)
4:00 - Since there is no attested verb "to trust" in Sindarin (we have the noun *estel* "hope", "trust" and the verb *hartha-* "to hope"), resourcing to the invented verb *estelia-* (imperative *estelio* ) is a way to circumvent this lack. But I think it would be better to extrapolate the Sindarin cognate to the Quenya verb *sasta-* "put", "place" and use it in a sentence like "have trust on me" (= "trust me"). In this case, the verb stem in Sindarin would happen to have exactly the same form as in Quenya, *sasta-.* The imperative form would be *sasto.* Thus, our sentence would render:
*Sasto estel bo nin* "put/place trust on me" (= have trust on me).
Alternatively, it would also be possible to use the gerund of *hartha-* in place of *estel:*
*Sasto harthad bo nin* "put/place hope on me".
4:37 - *Noro i roch lín!* uses the formal personal adjective *lín* "your". In case you want to address the other person informally, the personal adjective for "your" would probably be *cín* , corresponding to the informal pronominal ending *-ch* "you", which is added to verbs ( *lín* corresponds to the formal *-l* ). And, as an adjectival word, *cín* would be lenited (as any adjective directly following the noun it describes), becoming *gín.*
*Noro i roch gín!* "Ride your horse!".
6:13 - *Am man harthach?* (or with formal "you": *Am man harthal?* ) would translate "why do you hope?", also "why are you hoping?". Since there is no attested Sindarin for "why", we could resource to paraphrasing and use *am man* , literally "for what" as a way to circumvent this gap ( *an* "for", "to" becomes *am* by assimilation of the following *m-* sound of *man* ). As an alternative, we coud use *amman* , as a single word, but I would rather go with *am man* .
A word for "still" or "yet" is missing in the sentence in Elvish (if the intention is to say "why do you _still_ hope?", it would be better if it had one). Unfortunately, there is no Sindarin word which demonstrably has this meaning. But there is *eno* , which _apparently_ means "still". It is seen in the last line of Túrin Wrapper, *ar in Ellath epholar eno vi Eressai* , which would translate "and the Elves remember(?) still in Eressëa" (the meaning of the verb *ephola-* is uncertain). Assuming *eno* means "still" (and, in fact, it could be related to Quenya *en* "still", seen in *quetir en* "they still say"), we are going to use it in our sentence:
*Am man harthach eno?* (with informal "you") / *Am man harthal eno?* (with formal "you") "why do you still hope?", "why are you still hoping?".
Thank you so much
0:58 - Besides *beleg* (which changes to *veleg* via soft mutation a.k.a. lenition, because it is an adjective which is immediately folloing the noun it modifies), another Sindarin word for "great" is *daer* (which would also mutate, becoming *dhaer* ). So, the saying could also be:
*Caro naid dithin na veleth dhaer* "do small things with great love".
2:04 - Here we have the word *meth* (which undergoes lenition, changing to *veth* , due to the preceding *i* "the"). But this word is actually the adjective "last". The meaning "end" is given for the word in Noldorin (see * , below). The Sindarin word for "end" is *methed* (Quenya *metta* ). Rewriting the quote:
*Sí na i vethed, i vethed naid bain.* "Here at the end, the end of all things".
* In this case, "Noldorin" does not refer to the Quenya dialect spoken by the Noldor, but to the older name Tolkien gave to Sindarin in an earlier stage of its development. In its eaerliest version, the language was called Gnomish. Then, as Tolkien continued to develop it, he changed its name to Noldorin, or Exilic Noldorin. Until this point, his idea was that it was the language spoken by the Noldor and that it evolved separated from Quenya across the Sea, only coming to Middle-Earth whith the Exile of the Noldor. But he eventually realized that it couldn't be so different from Quenya, given that both languages evolved in close proximity, in Aman (Valinor). So, he decided that it was, instead, the langauge of the Grey Elves (or Sindar, in Quenya), changing its name to Sindarin, and that the Noldor spoke Quenya (as the Vanyar, in Aman).
3:10 - The gerund *tírad* should be lenited ( *dírad* ) because "to see" functions as the direct object (a verbal complement which doesn't come with a preposition)) of *anírach* "you want". Also, the conjunction "which", "that" (which introduces the second clause), represented by *i* in Sindarin, is missing. It may be dropped in English (you can say "be the changes which/that you want to see in the world" or "be the changes you want to see in the world"), but it is supposed to be used in Sindarin. With these corrections, the proverb would render:
*No i brestanneth **_i_** anírach **_dírad_** vi amar.*
Last, it is also possible to use *cened* rather than *tírad* ; and perhaps better too, since the verb *cen-* has the precise meaning "see" ( whereas *tíra-* rather means "watch"), although it is only attested as element in *cenedril* "looking-glass" (= mirror); which appear to contain the gerund *cened* "seeing" and *rill* "brilliance", "light" (the long/double *-ll* becoming a short/simple *-l* , as it usually happens to long consonants in the end of compounds in Sindarin). Of course, *cened* "seeing" must be lenited (as for *tírad* "watching"), changing to *gened.*
*No i brestanneth i anírach gened vi amar.*
"I'm glad that you're with me Sam. Sí na i veth naid bain." -Frodo
Thanks a millionnn❤️❤️❤️❤️
There is no problem I had with acquiring the knowledge and the skill in combination with the willpower to complete this task...... *ekhem* No problem, broh ;)
So I’ve seen some phrases other people say that have words seemingly not in the place of the English translation so how do you know where to put words?
love these!! xx
Thank you, really appreciate it!
*Gwend* (on 2:29) actually means "maiden", "young woman".
There is no attested Sindarin word for "friendship". We only have Quenya *nilmë.* But we can reconstruct its Sindarin cognate: Likely *dilith* (explanation below).
So, rewriting the saying:
*Dilith sui lotheg i edlothia an-uir* "friendship is a flower that blooms forever".
How I came to *dilith* ?
Quenya *nilmë* "friendship" consists of a Primitive Elvish root, either _NIL or NDIL_ , and the suffix *-më.* In the beginning of Quenya words, both _NIL_ and _NDIL_ appear as *nil-.* But given words like *Elendil* "Star-friend", "Lover or Student of Stars" and *Eärendil* 'Sea-friend", "Sea-lover", which have *-ndil* with the meaning "friend", "lover" as second element, I would say *nilmë* probably has the root _NDIL._
In Sindarin, in the beginning of a word, _NDIL_ appears as *dil-* , since archaic _nd-_ becomes *d-* in this position in Sindarin, as in *dôr* "land", seen as second element in *Ennor* "Middle-Earth" (literally: "Middle-Land"), where *-nd-* changes to *-nn-* for phonological reasons (the Quenya cognates are *nórë* "land" and *Endórë* and its shorter form *Endor* "Middle-Earth"). In the end or in the middle of a word, after a vowel, _NDIL_ appears as *-ndil* , which becomes *-nnil* (due to the regular change from *-nd-* to *-nn-* in Sindarin), while after a consonant it appears as *-dil* , as in *Gaerdil* (the Sindarin cognate to *Eärendil* ) - there are variations of this name, such as *Gaerdilion* and *Gaerennil* (the latter uses a connecting vowel *-e-* between *gaer* "sea" and *-ndil* - and, again, *-nd-* becoming *-nn-* ), as well as experimental Sindarinized forms like _Aerendil_ and _Aerennel._
The Quenya suffix *-më* is used to form abstract nouns, and is seen in words such as *melmë* "love" or *cilmë* "choice", for example (the latter is not attested as a standalone word, but probably occurred as such). It evolved from primitive _-mē_ , which, according to Parma Eldalamberon 17: 68 (#), is used to derive nouns denoting "a single action" - which matches the meaning of *cilmë* "choice" (although *melmë* "love" would normally be something that lasts, rather than "a single action").
[# Parma Eldalamberon and Vinyar Tengwar are periodics in which new material on Elvish is published from time to time.]
The Sindarin equivalent is *-th* , seen in both abstract and concrete nouns; for example, *meleth* "love", *gweneth* "maidenhood", *cirith* "cleft", "ravine", "defile", "pass" or *firith* "fading", also "autumn".
With this, we have the necessary elements to reconstruct what would likely be the Sindarin cognate to Q. *nilmë* : The Primitive Elvish root (it is probably better to use _NDIL_ - which appears as *dil-* initially) and the suffix *-th* . Putting them together, the resulting word is *dilith* "friendship" ( *-th* being preceded by an *-i-* , as in *cirith* , *firith* , etc. - whereas in *meleth* , *gweneth* , etc. it is preceded by an *-e-* instead).
Mae Govanen! Le Hannon!
Hannon le!
@@Artreii ?
Melon your the best
Thank you brotha
Talad sounds like salad 😂 I think I'll be completely wrong but to me it sounds like some kind of weapon - like arrow or something haha. Let's see...
Ooh, slope? Mkay I will remember for when we go to Italy the next time :>
I say you are underrated. Like VERY underrated.
Tonk'peh
No associations! That is useless to me. I learn by repetition!!
Ahhh uuh! 💪
@@Artreii other than that I love this effort and read each multiple times. And go back over and over.
I learn by staring at it until my eyes hurt.
It's not the most efficient method but...