The Book of Revelation: The Last Days According to Jesus with R.C. Sproul
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2019
- Without question, the book of Revelation is difficult to understand. Questions about the anti-Christ, the Millennium, and many others a are sharply disputed among Bible teachers today. But there is one question that seems to be overlooked in our search for signs of the end-times: When was the book of Revelation written? In this message, Dr. Sproul explains the importance of properly dating the book of Revelation as we seek to understand the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D.
This is the 8th in a series of messages by Dr. Sproul on the last days. See other videos in the series: • The Last Days Accordin...
The Bible truly is an inexhaustible living, breathing Word of God. It never ceases to teach and reveal.
I wish Dr Sproul was still alive and I could attend his church! He is by far my favorite preacher/teacher! Thank you RC Sproul-What a gift God gave us in you! 🙏❤️🙏
Even though Dr. Sproul is gone, he left behind a very good student and pastor at Saint Andrews in Burke Parsons. I became a Christian later in life and my first church was Saint Andrews. I would say it would be the equivalent of going from kindergarten immediately to college 😁
He's Alive; in The Great CHURCH, The HOLY BODY You too Will See and Partake Of -Given You persevere till the end by HIS Preserving Grace.
The more I study the less I know.
Revelation 1:1 says the main purpose or the book is to REVEAL, MANIFEST what is to come. God wants us to understand!!
That means it is literal, the parts that are symbolic are explain IN THE SAME BOOK or in another one written previously.
Its the last book and scripture interprete scripture.
God wouldn’t leave that part to be subjectively interpreted.
I think considering everything in Revelation symbolic is a huge mistake. Everyone comes up with their own interpretation!
I’ve been studying for 50 yrs. Might do you well to get used to that.
More like, the more I study the more I know I didn't know.
@@hcc7691 there are beasts and prostitutes and leviathans and other figures, how is that literal?
Imo, you're on the right track! May our God bless you and yours🙏🏻
Love how he's not dogmatic about this position. Sure appreciate him and his ministry.
I still listen to his lectures and sermons. Calms me down.
He is such a good teacher...miss him!
A very clear explanation and solid evidence on the dating of Revelation by the wonderful and beloved teacher RC Sproul who has now gone to be with the Lord.
@aikhongchua8978
Clear explanation and solid evidence? You must have been listening to something completely different and mistakenly commented under this video. This was bunch of conjectures, speculations and guesses. But... knowing the R. C's bias, didn't surprise me all that much
God willing to speak to you in Heaven my brother Sproul at the feet of the LORD. Sleep in peace until the glorious Day of the Lord Yeshua.
RC would have made an amazing attorney, but praise the Lord, he chose the right path in life.
Ironic, because Martin Luther, who was an inspiration to Sproul, was going to become a lawyer prior to his conversion
Thank you Mr. Sproul for pointing out that amazing observation concerning the book of Revelation speaking so much about the temple. How true it is that if the dating of the book is post 70ad, why does the apostle not mention 1 time about such a world shaking event that happened. Great great point. Love it.
the answer to this question is simple; it's a book of prophecy, and not history. John was commanded in Revelation 1 to write down what he saw; nothing more, and nothing less. Since all of Scripture is true, we can therefore trust that nothing is missing from Revelation.
Amen. I as a believer in Yeshua always knew, without external evidence, that every book of the New Testament was written before the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD.
REASON - I simply cannot comprehend, that believers would not use the greatest evangelistic, polemic tool, such as destroyed Temple, namely God completely removing (even though false) alternative to faith in Yeshua, existence of sacrifices offered in the Temple. This is incomprehensible in Jewish evangelism.
Amazing! Praise Jesus!
One more thing to add. If you do indeed start counting the 7 kings starting with Julias Caeser, then the 7th king that the angel mentions would be Galba.
Galba only reigned for roughly a year. Just the like the angel mentioned when he said:
"...five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come;
*and when he comes, he must remain a little while* "
I liked his statement
This is like powerlifting for my spiritual mind. I feel stronger already.
Yeah true. Also when I train I notice all the areas I need to improve and work on and always leave a gym session feeling as if I know less about fitness than when I went in. Definitely need more study into this for my own sake is what I'm saying.
@@HartyBiker that's true for me too. We'll said.
This is absolutely fascinating
So critical is the date of Revelation, it effects the expectations of the saints and what to hope for and trust in.
I am surprised the RC didn't mention that Irenaeus studied under Polycarp who was under John. Irenaeus was very close to the source.
I think the relationship of Irenaeus and Polycarp is overstated. I think they had more of a passing relationship rather than a close mentor relationship as far as I can tell
@@gabesmith9171 Both Iraneaus and Polycarp lived in Smyrna before the former moved to Rome. It would seem strange that they didn't interact much. I do note that preterists and post-millennialist sort of downplay Iranaeus since he states that John was banished under Domitian (who rules in the 90's) which undermines their view on the date of Revelation.
For those who hold to Revelations Judgments being in our future.Think again!
Revelation 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
Mt.23:35 That upon you [1st century Jews] may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Luke 11:50"Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world.
Excellent observation
Thank you R C Sproul.
Excellent teaching!
Awesome. Sproul was one hell of a communicator.
The way he talks he could almost dictate a book and it would need no editing.
Speaking to churches made up of a lot of gentile believers 100s and 100s of miles away from Jerusalem about the temple doesn't make sense. Also, there is no mention of Paul or his epistles using the earlier date doesn't make sense either. Thank you for this perspective though
Dr Sproul. I listen to your preaching of the word. You are a blessing to us. I thank God for you. I would like to ask if cremation can be for believers
I have done some research on the dating of the book of Revelation. John was exiled to Patmos in 95 AD. The book is prophetic (as most Biblical scholars agree) therefore it would seem then that Revelation would not be about Titus’s onslaught in 70 AD.
Exactly!!
Who says he was exiled in 95AD?
Wouldn't that make John 120+ years old at the time of writing revelation 😬
Excellent
Wonderful
I could think of one good reason as to why there is no mention of the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in Revelation. That is because Jesus told John to "write the things he saw", not to write a commentary on past historical events. Nowhere in Revelation does John write any personal or historical commentary.
that's right, as well as telling him to write these things '...that must soon take place'
@@deerfeeder2076 I've found that God's timeline and my timeline usually always rest upon two completely different calendars.
@@L.Fontein7 Yeah, i mean, are you saying God meant to tell John, 'these things that must soon take place-(according to my own sense of time)...' Lol.
Xuf, "One Day with the Lord is as 1000 years..."
@@BIBLE-UNBUTCHERED this is not a literal time calculation
Why doesn't he talk about Ezekiel 12:21-28?? That passage directly refers to these "time statements" in the New Testament and in my opinion proves his case..
Around and around we go!!!!!
Read “Before Jerusalem Fell” by Kenneth Gentry- this lecture is heavily based on the form and content of this book. He is a proponent of an early date of Revelation and is a great book
@gabesmith9171
Yes, but he is completely wrong.
John the Apostle was banished to Patmos by Titus Flavius Domitianus. He ruled from 81 to 96. John wrote Revelation while on Patmos, so it could not have been written in the 60s.
Where does it say John was exiled by Titus?
Dr. Sproul’s use of Clement’s anecdote of John chasing an apostate on horseback (preserved in Eusebius’ _Ecclesiastical History)_ seems to be iffy.
The account reads in part, “But John, forgetting his age, pursued him with all his might” (Ecc. Hist. III 23:17).
This seems a specific reference to John’s _old_ age, whereas Dr. Sproul uses this story as evidence of John’s _young_ age.
John around 70 AD would have been old (in his 60s likely), but not too ancient to travel and move about.
But at the later date, he would have been in his 80s, highly unlikely he would be able to walk very far let alone run.
Where in the book is it said that prophecy only occurs once? Most great events in the Bible have shadows in the past of the same thing.
For those with the position that all of the prophecy in Revelation are complete, that seems applicable up thru Rev 20:6. Verse 7 (at the conclusion of the “1000 years”) seems to suggest a new prophecy that takes us thru the end of this world and into eternity.
Irenaeus also said Jesus died at 55 yrs of age
I know a LOT about a LITTLE BIT of the BIBLE
No entiendo nada de lo que dice pero me encanta su voz. 😅
Using external writers as a God is not always a good thing, especially when it comes to church fathers and I say that because everybody knows the Catholic church has altered various writings concerning them, all in an attempt to make themselves successors of the priesthood
Jim714- Matthew 16:28 Some of you standing here will not die till they see the son of man coming in his Kingdom. What do YOU think that means?
Rev 3.12, John 17.3, John 20.17, and many other scriptures.
When has the end of a movie lasted longer than the movie?
For the most part im a partial preterist. Full preterism is very dangerous and daunting. People who view revelation in a futuristic way seem to pick and choose whats literal and what isnt. Whereas when you let the scripture speak for itself, it seems that imagery is very common amongst this writing. It paints a picture, its the same thing as a simile and metaphor that we lesrned about when we were young and in school.
I'm amazed, and humored, but not surprised by your simplistic dismissing of the internal evidence of the John in the isle of Patmos.
Great lengths must be taken to maintain doctrinal errors.
When we talk about scholars, are we talking about Bible believing scholars? More specifically, those who believe that Jesus Christ was the prophesied Messiah that died, buried and resurrected and sits at the right hand of the Father (God) in Heaven?
I say this because, otherwise, we would lend a great deal of credence for a far more myriad of views, secular views, like Bart Ehrman for example.
One of the most popular views is we have to know the background of who was writing, when they were writing, the climate and so forth. I would agree to some extent. But how do you put yourself in the place of an eternal God? Jesus? And the Holy Spirit that inspired the writings?
What I'm saying is, how far do we allow our Biblical scholars to get away with secular views?
Do we allow them to decipher the 27 books of the New Testament like they are books on the New York Times Best Seller List to be deciphered by any secular book critic? That is what is going on in our Universities and Colleges and this has been going on for many decades now. Also in our Seminaries, Catholic or Protestant, the whole shabang so to speak.
🙏
Revelation opens with the words, what must "soon take place", and focuses upon the Great Persecution, which ran from the mid first century to the early 4th century, when Constantine became the first Caesar to embrace Christianity and halted the persecution. See the Edict of Milan. See also the Lapse Controversy.
Yeah but Barry, 2/3 of the world's population didn't die then
@@BIBLE-UNBUTCHERED John only knew of the the land that Rome had conquered. In the land Conquered by the Romans during the tribulation there was a massive death count and suffering.
@@BIBLE-UNBUTCHERED you can’t prove that
The only time when I saw R.C. to delve into more guesswork, conjectures and speculations was when he was getting destroyed by his beloved friend Dr. John MacArthur in the infant baptism debate...
The NASB, ASV, KJV, ESV, MKJV, all have MOUNTAINS in Rev 17:9. Newer versions like NIV, CEV, NLT have HILLS. Its seems to me that the first five version mostly used by scholars use MOUNTAINS or MOUNTS, which would refer to Jerusalem, whereas HILLS may refer to Rome. I would go with Jerusalem which also has seven mountains or mounts surrounding Jerusalem. The seven kings may be seven Jewish Kings. Recall that the Harlot was carried by the beast with seven heads therefore closely related to him rather than Rome. Just thinking.
Please could you give the reference to the "ancient copies of revelation"? (minute 13)
Against Heresies, Book V, Chapter 30.
The sound is awful. Very brilliant theologian
How does one get to follow up teaching?
I have to ask, is it true that early Christian writers are almost in agreement that the book of Revelation was written during the reign of Domitian which ended in AD 96?
@royal priest There is a consensus that there is no consensus.
Revelation was written pre ad 70
I guess I'm ignorant, but John, himself says he was on Patmos when he had the vision. Is the question about when John was exiled to Patmos?
Another question: is it possible that John didn't mention the destruction of the temple because Jesus rose from the dead-Jesus being the fulfillment?
John was sentenced to Patmos by Domitian. Domitian "reigned" from 81 - 96 AD. How could John be on Patmos prior to AD 70?
Love RC (RIP) but as to explaining the book or Rev, he is not one I would go to. Just finished Robert Thomas' 2 volume exegetical commentary. Excellent commentary for the price. BTW, Peter used the same time references when he wrote that "the end of all things is near." The 96AD dating has the best historical evidence. Paul taught imminency believing that Christ could return in his own life time. Peter did as well even though he knew he would die prior to His coming. The 7 churches and their situations also point to the later dating. 1200 pages was a lot to read but Thomas' exegesis is sound. RC's analysis of the "kings" is totally wrong because kigs were not the subject but rather empires as in Daniel. One thing the Reformation didn't reform was the allegorical hermenutic.
Rome is called Babylon. It recalls the destruction of the first temple by the Babylonians. In addition, the new Jerusalem does not have a temple of stone. Because God Himself is amog his people.
Wich writing of Clement is he referring to?
It is recorded in Eusebius’ _Ecclesiastical History_ Book III Chapter 23. Blessings!
Antipas who is named in the book of revelation died long after 70 AD... so what ?
Doesn't it say Paul wrote it on the island of Patmos
The "time of the Gentiles" can be understood as "the time of all unbelievers." Therefore, the gathering of "Israel" is the gathering of all "believers" at the end of history.
Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Revelation 1:19. Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
Jesus tells John to write 3 categories. The things which he’s already seen, the things happening now, and the future. So When Jesus tells John that some things will shortly come to pass that’s what he’s talking about not the category of the future.
Revelation 22:10And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
Meaning: Time at hand means it has started all the things in revelation from beginning To end chapter 1 to 22. Happening from when John got the vision to the end
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Meaning: I come quickly word in Greek means fast moving like lightning from the east to west not near future.
Revelation chapter 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Meaning : I come quickly word in Greek means fast moving, in blink of an eye, not now or near future.
At 12:45: A techical analysis of Irenaes: "the apocalyptic VISION....that was SEEN" is self expanatory. Visions are seen. You are welcome. You may return to worshipping the eloquence of your Calvinists now.
Well John was told to measure the temple which was destroyed in AD70
What are you implying i think i know but I'm unsure
@@pjyev0
He’s implying a pre 70AD dating of Revelation and I agree ..
I feel like you have to ignore a lot of scriptures about who the future Beast is when accepting Sproul's view of preterism. The people at the end will worship and marvel at the Beast because he has a deadly head wound that has been healed, another way of saying he's come back to life from the dead! None of the examples he's given of people around the time of the destruction of the second temple fit this description. Also it's clear that the false prophet who makes people worship this Beast will force a mark on everybody that they can't buy or sell without it. Again, there is no antecedent for this around the second temple destruction
Don’t forget GOD’S judgement will be upon the unbelievers also. He will give them over to strong delusions that they may believe the lie.That they all might be damned…..
The Romans practiced Emperor Worship and persecuted the Christians for not acknowledging the Emperor as divine and worshipping him. The "marks" are not physical; they represent the lordship of the Emperor over the mind (forehead) and life (hand) of an individual. Christians also have the mark of their Lord, Jesus Christ. Scripture (OT) interprets Scripture (NT) and I do have Scripture to back up my words. Unfortunately, they are not coming to me right now. I do have them written down somewhere. I have a form of dementia called Frontotemporal Dementia (FTD) and it can be mentally taxing when it comes to remembering things.
The Jewish rebellion began in 66. The Jews defeated a Roman army. Another army was set against them and totally annihilated most of Galilee, but in the middle of the war, Nero committed suicide. Several more major revolts broke out, both by different legionary commanders and provincial popular uprisings. A massive civil war ensued and the war in Judea was put on hold. To the Jewish rebels and many others around the Roman world, it looked as though the empire was self-destructing. Some writers even refer to it as though they thought the world was ending. The Roman government was also facing a financial collapse the last year of Nero's reign. They were broke.
This was after a century of peace and prosperity. 3 successive emperors were acclaimed and overthrown each after a few months, then Vespasian became emperor and restored order everywhere, and immediately sent his son to go back to Judea and finish the job.
To the rebels, it might appear that the beast(Nero, the empire as a whole)had suffered a fatal wound, but by some miracle was able to reform after 2 years of chaos and put an end to their messianic aspirations.
Perhaps this is what was meant by the beast receiving a fatal wound and coming back to life. There was also 3 or 4 resurrected Neros after he died, which large swathes of peoples in the eastern empire believed to be him.
And the beast is not a man. The beast is the angel of the bottomless pit, the king of the locusts, whose name is Abaddon/Apollyon. He is mentioned in 9,11, 13, 17, and 20.
Or, did John receive the vision years before he got to write it all down?
the inspired word of God only states what needs to be stated; not a reference to the temple unless it is necessary; so don’t rational from such a position. It wasn’t needed.
He's spot on here guys. The "Tribulation" Is way behind us. Fear not, Christ will conquer this world. God will not have to remove His church because the Gospel failed.
I have a question...
How does the gospel conquering this world (your words) live in harmony with the Lord's words..
"Narrow path that few will find?"
@louisward897 that's a great question. Two thoughts...
1) I believe the gospel will always go forth in a hostile environment. I do not know what the very end days will look like, but I fully believe there will be unbelievers up to the final moment.
2) Given my view on Revelation, there is a chance that Jesus was speaking specifically to the people in His generation. The destruction of Jerusalem was 40 yrs in their future, and the Jews who did not believe in Jesus would have remained in the city after the Roman's came. The Christians all fled, because Jesus warned them this war coming. He told them to flee when they saw the city surrounded, and they did. Many, many jews were killed.
Here's another thought... what percentage of the jews in Jesus's day do you think rejected Him? I think most of them. Very few found the narrow way, and they perished under the roman assault.
@@michaelnapper4565 That is an interesting view. It sounds like you are a "partial" preterist. Would that be accurate?
Revelation clearly illustrates far more future events than the first century.
He did his best but his age and era influenced some interpretations In the Bible especially about women
Here’s early church quote
What Eusebius Thought Irenaeus Said
Here’s how Eusebius utilized Irenaeus’s statements:
“There is ample evidence that at that time the apostle and evangelist John was still alive, and because of his testimony to the word of God was sentenced to confinement on the island of Patmos. Writing about the number of the name given to antichrist in what is called the Revelation of John, Irenaeus has this to say about John in Book V of his Heresies Answered:
‘Had there been any need for his name to be openly announced at the present time, it would have been stated by the one who saw the actual revelation. For it was seen not a long time back, but almost in my own lifetime, at the end of Domitian’s reign’” (The History of the Church, 3.18).
Irenaneus was bishop in 1st century knew polycarp John’s disciple I think these people who were there know what there’re talking about
way too much speculation to fit an agenda
I agree, however as with most bible prophecies, its dual.
Most prophecies aren't dual. Simply ask yourself how can there be 2-second comings???? Illogical. Besides, Christ said he would return in that first century generation.
@@dionsanchez4478 God can't pour out his spirit more than once?
@@RoseSharon7777 If he says he's going to pour it out on all flesh again, yes. God is not in a box. But the first pouring out prophesied in the OT had a specific time and place in mind Jerusalem. Likewise, the events mentioned in Revelation have time indicators that only fit 30-70 CE period.
@@dionsanchez4478 Thats not true. Revelation is written to the 7 churches of Asia, not Judah. Only Judah and northern Israel was affected by Rome in 70 ad. Also, the sea still exists and the army that surrounds the camp of the saints was not destroyed in 70 ad.
@@RoseSharon7777 agreed.
He goes on to make a lot of assumptions to fit his narrative.
Making someone king that want king etc.
Also when he talks about the 7 hills he dismissed Jerusalem because it didn't fit his narrative.
The Bible is very clear that the woman, the whore, mystery Babylon is non other than Jerusalem, not Rome.
Revelation 17:18 (KJV) And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Who is the great city?
Revelation 11:8 (KJV) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Our Lord was not crucified in Rome.
Scripture interprets scripture.
The old testament calls Israel and Judah, whores.
Jeremiah 3:8 (KJV) And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Judges 8:33 (KJV) And it came to pass, as soon as Gideon was dead, that the children of Israel turned again, and went a whoring after Baalim, and made Baal-berith their god.
2 Chronicles 21:13 (KJV) But hast walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and hast made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to go a whoring, like to the whoredoms of the house of Ahab, and also hast slain thy brethren of thy father's house, which were better than thyself:
Nothing new under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 1:9 (KJV) The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
My apologies; just seems that the references to Irenaeus and Clement, with respect to their life span being mid 2nd century does not seem to fit the narrative of an early write. in my opinion. Nothing here to convince me that John wrote this before the 90's. :)
Volume is too low in these videos
May need hearing aids. I put it on max on my iPad and it was way to loud. Had to keep it on half volume.
@@Texasguy316 yep me too.
Rev.11:8 seems to indicate that many verses must be known 'spiritually', not literally, which reads:
'And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified'!!!
The post-70 A.D. dating of the book of Revelation renders all preterist thought null and void. You can be a futurist and believe in the early date (Neronic) or late date for this book, but it's impossible to be a preterist and hold to the late (Domitianic) date.
The earliest Christian historian who recorded the church's knowledge of the Domitianic dating of Revelation was Hegessippus in 150 A.D. (around the time when most of those who would have known John had likely already died), and this continued to be the accepted unanimous view until about 4 centuries later with the Syriac Peshitta NT manuscript in which someone wrote that John was exiled under Nero. It is sometimes claimed that the Neronic dating is in the original, but this is impossible since the original lacked the book of Revelation. From what I've been able to gather, there is no source or reasoning given for this change in that 6th century manuscript. This is problematic at best, and lacks the authoritativeness that would be required to credibly make such a huge revision to what was commonly accepted and passed down from the end of the first century/beginning of the 2nd. The same can be said for the Muratorian Fragment, which is the 7th century copy of the 2nd century original, with no way to prove the Neronic dating was in the original. There is no record of any of the early church fathers holding to the early mid-60's date of Revelation. A fascinating glimpse into the early church fathers and what they believed on a variety of topics is in 'A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs', over 700 pages compiled by David Bercot.
In addition to Hegessippus (who, notably, wrote this some 30 years prior to Irenaeus), Tertullian , Eusebius, Jerome, Sulpicius Severus, and a number of other church fathers both before and not long after the council at Nicaea all confirm that John was exiled to Patmos by Domitian where he received Revelation. The lack of any dissenting view naming Nero in place of Domitian until the 6th century should give early-date advocates pause. This cannot be swept under the rug so easily. That's like if someone today claimed that Queen Elizabeth I of England had a child, when in fact we know that she died childless in 1603. It would not be seen as a credible claim because there's no evidence for it. Likewise, from John's death until the 6th century there passed over 400 years without a single claim of Nero exiling John to Patmos. Not one.
So at least most of the events of Revelation are still in our future (some view the messages to the churches as having already been strictly for them and completely fulfilled, while some view each church as symbolic for a different time period, and of course there could be room for double-fulfillment of most of those first 3 chapters).
There was a celebration on Patmos in 1995 commemorating 1900 years (approximately, as in 95 or 96 A.D.) since the Revelation Jesus gave to John.
Also, what other events in the 1st century A.D. are ever claimed as taking place 2 or 3 decades earlier (or later, for that matter)? With all of the accurate records kept during the Roman Empire era and surviving today, there is little room for such a vast difference being feasible. It's commonly believed that Jesus died around 30 or 33 A.D., Paul and Peter were martyred in the 60's, Nero lived from 37-68 A.D., etc. No one says Jesus died in 3 A.D. or 60 A.D., or that Peter and Paul were martyred in the 30's A.D. or 90's A.D., or that Nero actually reigned around the time of Jesus' ministry as recorded in the Gospels.
The majority of scholarship places John's writing of Revelation in the mid-90's, but somehow preterists think it's ok to go against the overwhelming consensus of the past 2000 years? Why isn't this the case with any other historical event from the same time period? The great fire of Rome took place for nearly a week during 64 A.D., but no one places it in 54 A.D. let alone 34 A.D. A powerful earthquake in 60 A.D. devastated Laodicea. And yet no one ever says that earthquake took place in 30 A.D. 30 years prior. I have yet to see any preterist respond to this fact with a shred of credibility. Domitian exiling John to Patmos was common knowledge among the ante-Nicene church. With the vast majority of evidence to the contrary, preterism literally rests on this single pillar of the dating of the book of Revelation. And, really, that is no pillar at all in light of the historicity of the late date.
John Darby got it wrong and now we’ve all wrongly assumed there’s gonna be a secret rapture for the last 200 years, I’m not surprised one un-inspired church father “possibly” misplaced the date of a letter he didn’t even write. Then everyone else jumped on board and deemed it truth. Anyways The internal evidence of post-mill trumps the external evidence.
@@Kairosresearch6942 if you actually read through my comment you'll notice that I never once mentioned a pre-trib rapture. I am not a dispensationalist but am more closely aligned with historic premillennialism. You didn't address a single point that I made.
By the way, for the vast majority of church history the early date was never opposed with any consistency or numbers. There was no argument in the early church, no real dissenting viewpoint that came about until the post-Rome era some 400 years after Revelation was given to John.
R.C. was a Partial-Preterist not a Full-Preterist for what it's worth.
Do you think it is possible that Domitian sent john to exile in Patmos during Nero Caesar’s reign?
@@allthingsbing1295 "Do you think it is possible that Domitian sent john to exile in Patmos during Nero Caesar’s reign?"
No because Domitian wasn't in any position with the power to do something like that until he was emperor, which didn't start until 81 A.D.
There is also no record of Nero exiling any Christians.
The seven mountains have nothing to do with literal mountains. They are also the heads of the beast. One of his heads was wounded to death and revived, so obviously this is not about literal mountains. And the sixth is Rome itself, not one of its emperors. The beast is the eighth, and is of the seven. He is one of the heads of the dragon, which are also seven kings.
Look I’m sure he was a good pastor commentator I don’t know his actual credentials I did research to see if he spoke Greek or Hebrew and could not find that he did so his opinion is just his opinion you really need to check things in the original language to make sure that you potentially have the right interpretation
Is Sproul a teacher if preterism?
He was a Partial-Preterist not a Full-Preterist. He believed Christ's Return to be a Future event.
Where is the third temple in all this?
They don’t believe in one
There is none. No Christian thinker ever entertained this "3rd temple" notion until the likes of Irving and Darby in the 1830s magically discovered it.
It's a recent invention.
It is coming soon. The antichrist now resides in the northeast US.
It was rebuilt in 3 days. The "glory cloud" the Holy Spirit, entered on Pentecost
Jesus gave 2 discourses one in the book of Matthew one in the book of Luke you need to read them and study them you will find they are two different discourses given at two different times in two different locations one pertains to the future and one pertains mostly Jewish nation at that time and does discuss the destruction of Jerusalem
you’ll find that in the discourse in the book of Luke where Jesus clearly says when you see the city of Jerusalem surrounded… that obviously pertains to the destruction of the temple and 70 D but then Goes from that point into the future
the one in Matthew is different it pertains to the future that’s why Jesus gave two different discourses
Bottom Line. It is "just" personal" theory. If it was important to know when it was written John, Jesus, the Holy Ghost would have told us. 🤔😇😉
Revelation was written in code, which the Jewish Christians would have understood, while the Romans would not. It uses symbols and themes from the Hebrew Scriptures, which were familiar to the Jewish Christians. They understood the point, because they knew and understood their Scriptures.
I have this to say.
As with all the epistles and letters written by the apostles, which were written FOR the believers and followers of Jesus Jew and gentile alike, the Book of Revelation was written NOT for the non-believing Jewish population, but for Christian Jews and gentiles. Thus, no mention of the Temple's destruction. There was no need to. Jesus' warnings in the Olivet discourse we're enough to speak on that matter and it did help save the Christians who must have left Jerusalem due to that impending doom event. It is my understanding that multitudes of Christians left the city and Judea prior that.
Since Jesus spoke about the temple's destruction many decades prior, why would He double down and include it in His revelations to John at Patmos? Jesus didn't because it doesn't concern those who have decided to follow Him and become Christians, and later heeded His advice to flee Jerusalem. I believe that the contents and intents of Revelation were meant primarily for Christians who would by all purposes, be exclusively familiar with the language used (particularly that of 'church' and His promised return), whose meanings would be lost to a Judaiser or non-believer. As early as Jesus' pre-crucifixion, I believe the Apostles have understood the meaning of Christ's statement to the woman by the well that "the day will come when people shall worship neither in Jerusalem nor in this mountain (in Samaria)". This in my view renders the temple as no longer necessary for Christians, and accept that His words in Matthew 24 is a pronouncement of God's judgement on Jerusalem, Judea and all it's people who rejected Jesus.
The target audience of Revelation is Christians, with the purpose of giving a view to future events, so that to me makes it irrelevant WHEN it was written.
The book of revelation is mosly writting for jews and gentilles beliver and unbelivers after the rapture so they will know whats happening in there times
@@francoisallard8180 the book of revelation was written to the seven churches in Asia in ad 60s
The Bible tells you what must happen before tribulation starts
Thessalonians 2:7 The restrained must be taken out of way. The restrainer is Holy Spirit (in the church) the church will be raptured then tribulation starts.
Read Mathew 24.
There is another crucial internal evidence of the early date reference that nobody sees very few do. As RC scrolls says about chapter 17 verse 9 and 10 we see that there are Kings. But up in verse 3 we see that John is in the spirit and sticking out into the wilderness so from that point everything we see is a vision not when he's writing the book. But in 10 versus later in 18:2 we see the Babylon has been destroyed. So in chapter 17 verse 9 and 10 is talking about the destruction of Babylon and chapter 18 verse 2. Here where it gets pretty interesting and chapter 18 verse 20 and 24 we see that the saints and Prophets and apostles got to revenge when Babylon was destroyed. If we go back to Matthew chapter 23 we see that Jesus gives the Pharisees and strategies that condemnation. He told them that they killed the prophets and apostles in the saints no one else got that claim. And in 70 AD they were judged for that so how can Babylon in the future have the same judgment as Jerusalem in the past. So Babylon and chapter 18 has to be Jerusalem if it is not then sometime in the future the prophets and apostles have to be risen or we have a new set of apostles and Prophets. Or everything happened in 70 AD. And with all the short time statements and Jesus this generation statements and Paul telling a Thessalonians that they will see relief when Jesus comes back and their lifetime. There is no question that 70 AD was the second coming of jesus. Luke and chapter 21 verse to 24 is quite clear that these are the days of vengeance where everything that was written will be fulfilled. If we look at 70 AD and said it was not his second coming or a partial second coming then we are calling Jesus and his apostles a liar always saying that they are confused they don't know what's going on.
If Jesus did come back and He didn't take us to heaven or establish His kingdom,what does that mean for us? Is any of it true? Can you see the credibility of the core belief of Christianity hope is totally fvcked if He already came back?
@@davidmathews9633 because the kingdom is not physical.
@@davidmathews9633 Jesus never said his kingdom was physical. Jesus has always said his kingdom is spiritual. So if it's Kingdom is spiritual we would never see the kingdom until we die. Luke chapter 17:20,21,john 18:35,36.1cor 15:50 so we see here by these few verses that Paul and Jesus both think the kingdom is spiritual who are we to say that they do not know what they are talking about.
He is saying John wrote this before 70 A.D.?
Yep
That's the Postmil position.
Maybe but he's reaching heavily. Major interpretation gymnastics.
@@hiddenthings4199 He is not reaching. The early church agreed with him.
Why would anyone think that revelation was written in 90 ad? That has zero evidence
It is my understanding that the Epistles of Paul are the deadliest of the Christian canon. He would have surely been a witness. But I do not recall him mentioning the destruction of the Temple or the attack of the Romans on Jerusalem. 😇😉🤔
The entire canon was written before 70AD
Biblical scholars disagree, Even Christian Biblical scholars.
@@owlnyc666 the overwhelming evidence points to pre -70AD. What is your evidence otherwise?
The Gospels were written after 70 A.D., The Epistles of Paul were written before the Gospels.
@@owlnyc666 if the gospels were written after AD70 is it feasible that they didn’t bother to mention the fact that the temple was completely destroyed? Fulfilling yeshuas prophecy. It is highly unlikely.
Daniel describes times of Gentiles in statue of Nebuchadnezzar, it’s not Jerusalem, that rock not hewn by hands of men, that destroys before Kingdom, but the last Gentile empire. So to claim all had been fulfilled in 70 AD, doesn’t make sense.
My subjective opinion, this is what happens when you ignore Tanakh and only use New Testament for interpretation.
Short summary of several verses, that the Lord uses in the Gospels and ignore volumes of the chapters that the same Jesus spoke through Patriarchs, Moses, Prophets and Psalms on this topic, is more than inadequate.
All GOD’s prophets always spoke of near limited fulfillment of certain event, but projecting the prophecy to the greater and distant future fulfillment.
This was a way prophets fulfill the Torah requirement, to distinguish between true and false prophets.
Thus first century was a lesser fulfillment of the greater future fulfilment of the 70th week of Daniel, to end the times of Gentiles and finish promised redemption of Daniels people, Israel.
Church age is not a Gentile age, it’s a mystery age of Jews and Gentiles in a new Body of the Messiah and is no way, shape and form connected to any generation of prophecy, including earthly ministry of the LORD Yeshua the Messiah. There is no church replacing Israel, but some Gentiles are grafted in to the promises made to the fathers.
PS. Romans did not invade Palestine, but invaded by then reunited kingdom of Israel, which took place during Assyrian and Babylonian invasions. Palestine did not exist until Romans attached this name out of spite to the land of Israel in 135 AD. It was, is and always be the Land God gave Israel, even when we rebel against Him, in the same way there never was, is and never be Palestine.
God will show you who he is I promise you I will never worship Jesus God is my only creator
Jesus is God! The bible clearly says that Christ is the visible image of the invisible God! In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God and the word became flesh.
This is nice and all but "when" the book was written is irrelevant but rather the contents of the book. Knowing when it was written has absolutely no bearing on the things that will happen during the 2nd coming which is likely very soon.
Knowing when it was written, makes all the difference in the world if it truly was written post ad70 then John was a false prophet, because he said over and over the events would happen soon. However, if it was written, pre-A.D. 70, then all the events unfolded within that generations lifetime just like it said, culminating with the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem.
@@allthingsbing1295 Actually according the 'Jerusalem Bible,' states that the book of Revelation, was estimated to be written in A.D. 95. But, states how "some believe that parts, at least, were composed as early as Nero's time, shortly before A.D.70.
@@carolweaver3269 Yes I would agree that the entire canon was written prior to AD 70.
But ultimately it really doesn’t matter since there are at least 10 time statements in chapter 1 & 22 of revelation. Telling us when the events occur. Soon, shortly, time is at hand, coming soon, do not seal the words, time is near, coming quickly,etc. If the events have not yet happened,in 2024, then the Bible is false prophecy!!
Even if you think revelation was written in AD 95! 2024 is NOT SOON compared to AD 95!
@@allthingsbing1295 I pray He comes soon! Some people are acting like they are possessed on the streets in cities. so out of control and just not acting normal at all. This was all told in the bible that this would happen and it would become very evil, at the very end of times. Things are changing and not for good, very quickly,
@@carolweaver3269 Where do you see a yet-future return of Christ in the Bible? Can you list some specific passages?
Because he preaches doesn’t mean every single thing that he taught is correct it is his opinion he didn’t speak Hebrew I’m not even sure if yhwh spoke Greek
Lot of skips, a lot of ifs? A lot you do this? Then it works before 70 a day when in fact many scholars of the past did not understand that when Jesus gave two discourses one in Matthew and one in luke they were actually two different discourses at two different locations not the same discourse represented twice once you learn this and understand this you can clearly see that Jesus was prophesies in both about the destruction of Jerusalem and a future destruction of a temple in Jerusalem
The Jews said no King but Caesar; that’s a dodge. Jews has kings Rome and emperors. Did the Jews say Caesar was a King. No it was left to be interpreted by Rome.
This is why seminary is like being in a cemetery, this is so dead , how does this scratch where I itch ? Give me the spiritual truths to apply to my life , a date doesn’t touch my life. Goodness !
Richard Maldonado the apostle Paul was essentially a Jewish seminary student to the greatest Jewish teacher of his time. The greatest thing that happened to Paul was his conversion but he did use what he learned from his teacher and the books he studied including the Tanahk to proclaim the excellencies of Christ in the power of the Spirit. History is important. If you want only topical preaching you will only get a portion of what the Bible teaches. God bless
LOL. Because we look back and see how God in Christ fulfilled his word! Cmon brother, you know better than that.
Some of us like to dig a little deeper and search for the truth. I’m no theologian by any means, but I really like to hear the different eschatological views.
commenting 2 years later, is your itch scratched?
The Roman records confirm Johns release from prison and the emperor who released him please read the history it helps us to understand the the truth john was in his 90s he went back to his home town where he died of old age as Jesus predicted he would
@@christopherturner5735 Right! Also, Rev 11:1 states that the angel tells John to go measure the Temple of God. And to leave out the court which is outside the Temple and do not measure it. And it says they will tread the holy city for 42 months. If the Book was written in the 90's the Temple would have been already destroyed. How could he measure something already gone?
That was john the baptist not the apostle john who wrote the book of Revelation
@@ruewatson2654 ? I thought John the Baptist lost his head way prior to revelation? Am I missing something?
No it wasn’t we have historical records that showed who the emperor was that sentenced and released John and he was sentenced way after 70ad and released in the 90s.
Need to actually do research historically contact anyone that can help you because you’re wrong
@@shellystone3211 I have done the research. Thanks. Have you?
this is a prime example of taking passages of scripture out of context, and the effect of presuppositions on interpretation, as well as the method of interpretation, such as the allegorical and hyperbolic approach. Clearly the cosmic signs referred to throughout end time prophecy, including Jesus sermon on the mount (Matt 24:29-31), which is immediately connected with the day of the Lord second coming of Christ (Rev 11:15-19), which is connected with the final destruction of the Beast, and the Antichrist (Rev 19) - which takes a lot of imagination and exaggeration to see as already fulfilled in that 1st century. This interpretation that Nero was the Antichrist also fails to take into consideration, or accurately interpret Daniel's prophecies, and how they are vital to the interpretation of what we see in Revelation, as the Beasts, and the one we call the Antichrist.
Sproul begins with the mistaken interpretation of the seven heads as referring to the seven hills of Rome, while John clearly tells us that they represent seven rulers, five of which had come and gone, one was at his time (probably Rome), and one that was to come (Rev 17:8-11). He makes a big deal out of the English translation of the Greek word "basileus" as king, while it actually means "leader of the people, prince, commander, lord of the land," (Thayer's Lexicon), which would include "Emperors". He then interprets these "kings" as being the Ceasars gong back to Julius Ceasar, which is a glaring inconsistency in his arguments regarding the interpretations of the key words, as necessarily being Roman Emperors, not kings. However, the 7th Emperor after Julius or Augustus Ceasar is not Nero but Galba - another little discrepancy.
Reading this passage Sproul adds a key word very sneakily, the word "also" before John's explanation of the 7 heads as rulers, implying that it is both the seven hills and the seven kings. His interpretation also seems to ignore the connection with the Harlot Babylon, and the ten horns of that final 8th beast, and begs for explanation of the final outcome described in the 19th chapter, as having already happened in the first century. Too many pieces of the puzzle are left out of this picture - is not letting scripture interpret scripture.
His arguments for the dating of the book are very shaky based on the shared presuppositions of the men to whom he appeals for authority, not actual evidence.
This is the Reformed Church view on prophecy and Revelation in particular, which has many problems scripturally, exegetically, and in reality. It is a view that relegates all the end-time prophecy to little more than history which makes it mostly irrelevant to us in the church today. Their non-literal allegorical approach opens the door to virtually unrestrained latitude with respect to speculative and imaginative interpretation mostly based on other presuppositions, such as the all the prophecies about the day of the Lord judgment on the whole earth with the darkened sun, the blood red moon, and the heavenly bodies falling from the sky, as all being fulfilled in 70AD with the destruction of tiny Jerusalem.
But for those who don't really know the scripture on this subject, it sounds very convincing.
Notice how he changes the wording in chapter 17 from “Mountains” to “hills” it is a quick slight of hand to make is argument more plausible.
Mountains have a specific meaning in Old Testament prophecy.
For him to change it to hills is being dishonest with the text.
Of course the book of revelations was written before 70AD.
Jesus had foretold the destruction of Jerusalem many times, most clearly when he was sitting with his disciples on the mount of olives in Matthew 24.
The destruction of the Jerusalem is the destruction of the temple and its system; the end of the jewish era.
Josephus, the jewish born roman historian, writes about the destruction of Jerusalem in great detail as he was a witness to the event.
No the book of Revelation is not about the destruction of the temple in AD 70. Goodness
Revelation 1-19 is about the events before AD70.
But in Revelation, the metaphorical 1000 years begins in AD70 when Israel is judged.
It is a long period of time where Israel is out of the picture.
That period ended in 1948 when Israel is now in the center of the world's attention.
We are moving toward the last event of Revelation 20 which is the final judgment of the world.
The Church will be raptured just before this event - the dead will be raised and the believers
who are alive, will be caught up with the Lord in heaven. Then fire will come down
from heaven to judge the nations in Revelation 20.
Then the new world will be revealed, where there will be no more death, tears or pain in Revelation 21-22.
@@MathewSimonGospel Yeshua said not a jot or tittle will fail from the law and the prophets until ALL is fulfilled . Therefore if it isn’t all fulfilled then Yeshua is a false prophet
Jesus gave 2 discourses one in the book of Matthew one in the book of Luke you need to read them and study them you will find they are two different discourses given at two different times in two different locations one pertains to the future and one pertains mostly Jewish nation at that time and does discuss the destruction of Jerusalem
you’ll find that in the discourse in the book of Luke where Jesus clearly says when you see the city of Jerusalem surrounded… that obviously pertains to the destruction of the temple and 70 D but then Goes from that point into the future
the one in Matthew is different it pertains to the future that’s why Jesus gave two different discourses
@@shellystone3211 so how do you interpret the word soon in revelation or “must shortly come to pass” or I come quickly. Or when Yeshua told caiaphas that he would see the judgement. Is caiaphas still alive?
This is what I submit. I submit that Bible scholars, including secular Bible scholars, in universities and colleges, to be valid, must view and analyze the Bible from the view that they are inspired by a Holy God. Regardless of whether they believe in God or not.
Otherwise, their review and analysis is not relevant. Not valid. I'm not even saying that they should not review the Bible just from a worldly viewpoint. If they are not doing both, what are they? God? How can you be honest and objective without doing both if a scholar is not a believer? Otherwise, they spout their own views from their own perspectives.
There are no other ancient writings and books of the Bible and surrounding the Bible, whether Old Testament or New Testament. And then archeology. Then there is the sheer volume of writings? Compare the exactness of the writings that are valid? And so forth. Nothing comes close, not in our world.
Or they could be a scholar studying Alexander the Great?
This is a most baffling comment for me. Would you say a scholar, whose topics are the nordic sagas, is only relevant if he believes in Odin and Thor? How could you critisize Quran if the prerequerest for a study of the Quaran is believing in Allah and it´s prophet?
@@norbertjendruschj9121 If it is purely academic, then who cares.
But to be more specific, and to be fair to the Bible, it would be appropriate to teach what the Bible says in the light of what the Bible teaches.
It would be fair to point out inconsistencies and other problems.
But we know it goes way beyond that. Kind of gives more credence to the Bible actually to have it attacked.
@@robertbrown6879 "But we know it goes way beyond that. Kind of gives more credence to the Bible actually to have it attacked."
If you mean, it shows the relevance of the bible still being attacked (I prefer discussed) after 2000 years, yes, I agree 100%.
But there is nothing wrong to look at the text critically from the position of a 21st century human being who knows more about natural sciences than all the authors of the bible combined.
@@norbertjendruschj9121 Ok, very good. I don't buy it.
0 Mathew 24
It’s in consecutive order all the way to the end of Mathew. Ie
14. After gospel preached to world
End comes….this hadn’t happened yet
15. You’ll see temple abomination….this hasn’t happened yet
16-20False messiahs will rise: this message is for for Israel and Arabs
21:trouble from beginning of world now WILL ever be….this hasn’t happened yet
22: days are shortened….this hasn’t happened yet
23-26 false messiah: only Israel and Arabs are waiting on a messiah to this day! That’s why it says “desert” and “secret chambers” applies to Jews
27: don’t look for messiah you won’t find him he will come like lightening strikes from east to west….when true messiah comes it will be fir his church quick as lightening
28: where body is eagles will be….rapture in sky
29. Tribulation starts: after the rapture
30. Sign of son man in sky: for Israel the women with 12 stars A visual constellation will Hover over Israel (Genesis Joseph’s dream)
31. Sends angels to gather elect (144000) revelation 7 to preach to Israel and world Jewish men
32. Parable fig tree: THIS is the generation has nothing to do with Israel becoming a nation.
33: fig tree will grow consecutively watch for in order
34. The generation who sees all these (by past history and present) will not pass away who sees RAPTURE, temple being built and abomination.
35: everything Jesus says about this matter will stand and never change
36 The day and hour only the Father knows. What day and hour? The day and hour the tribulation starts. Now Jesus tells you how the tribulation will start it starts with the rapture.
37: this event will be like days of Noah (lasted 120 years of building arc) or 2000 yrs church age.
38 In days of Noah world will be eating and drinking (unaware) until Noah went into ark like (Jesus will takes his church)
39 then flood came (tribulation will come) when? After Noah went in arc. (After church goes in (rapture) taken out of (saved from flood/tribulation)
40-41 Tells how quickly they are taken
42 watch because you don’t know when your lord comes? What is Jesus coming for?
Noah had both a spiritual saving (found righteous) and a physical saving (arc) then flood came……….. Jesus died and provided spiritual saving Jesus’s return for church provides physical saving (rapture a form of the arc) then the tribulation starts
43 this verse refers to above verses about people taken. Goodman was not ready but some out of his house were taken some left. Goodman was supposed to watch and be ready for thief who TOOK. Jesus calls himself the thief in the night. So you know it is Jesus who is the one who is taking the people as in versus 40-42. Verses do not imply murder do not imply killed, do not imply judgment they just simply say taken, one will be taken and one left.
44 It says be ready because you don’t know when your Lord will come meaning that your Lord is the thief as in the example in verse 43
45-49 Describing a servant who is watching for his Lord and A servant who is not watching for his lord to come (meaning ready or not ready) parable about 10 virgins, 5 are taken 5 are left (the door closed) Jesus is the door, the door opens for the rapture and is closed like Noah closed the door on the arc before flood came.
50 The Lord will come when some servants aren’t ready
51 Unready servant will be cut under (left behind) with the hypocrites (they will weep and gnash teeth) This is a form of lamenting.
This verse is telling you that a servant is someone who serves Jesus because you serve Jesus doesn’t mean you will be taken. An unworthy servant will be left behind with the hypocrites. Left behind where? In the tribulation that’s the subject of what we are talking about.