@@YaBoiDREXjust before i started getting into Beue gray’s story, Dutch said something like “I know you’ll betray me in the end Arthur” and Arthur said something in utter confusion Dutch didn’t care for awhile
@@YaBoiDREXbuut, arthur didnt come back to the trail, colm didnt attack. And dutch didn't suspect a single thing and just went to chill in camp? idk seems weird, maybe micah was reassuring him saying everything was fine
@@FemboyKaiSaku Micah was reassuring him because he most likely set Arthur up and Arthur leaves camps for weeks then comes back with legendary pelts and tons of money.
@@xLanzerYeah but AFTER you meet with your sworn enemy and they just... leave? No bargins, no taunts. They just leave. That wouldn't make you a liiiiiiitle suspicious?
The fact that him and Micah say the exact same thing almost word for word shows they had a deeper connection since the beginning. Small detail but worth it if you pay attention
It feels like Dutch was manipulated by micah. They mention micah had only been with them for a few months. Arthur Dutch and Hosea had been together for like 10 years before rdr2
That’s right if you listen to the conversations between Dutch and Arthur Dutch is always worried that Arthur is about to turn on him or doesn’t trust him fully anymore or whatever so I believe that him and Micah were just like hey, this is a chance to get rid of Arthur let’s get rid of him when have you ever left camp and not been back for a while and they don’t send someone looking after you
He went after john twice , Rescued bill , Sean , Micah and then when he was lost during a mission that was dead odd and he didn’t come back they were like : don’t worry he’ll show up
Well, depending on how you play the main story, Arthur being gone for a few days wouldn’t raise much concern, but I had the suspicion of denial in the group, especially after an event of that measure.
@@CursedMohawk Micah probably convinced Dutch that Arthur was probably still scouting the party and would return soon. Micah is an underestimated manipulator.
@@panchito_1002 I don’t think he was that good of a manipulater like we think Dutch is just a bore judge of character he knew Arty had his reasons for not liking Micah and he choose to looks past it constantly ignoring all his red flags first person to suggest Micah talks Dutch into leaving I could see him doing it
Man when I first played this game for whatever reason I loved Dutch. He was like father to the gang and watching him slowly descend into madness was heart breaking
He has a great charisma especially in the first couple of chapters so I liked him quite a bit in the beginning too even though I had already played the first game
@@sw1sh839he wasn’t using them for money, no matter how much they had he never cared, what Dutch cared about was simply killing and robbing folk and living that life, regardless of how heroic he made it sound, your still killing and robbing people, there was never a retirement or escape plan, his plan was to keep going until they all died.
My problem with this is how at the beginning of the mission they say we’ll all meet right here at the crossroads if everything goes smooth. Then Author doesn’t show up and I guess they were like oh well.
Yes that’s my problem with it and people going oh it’s only been a day clearly didn’t notice that tiny detail the fact Micah and him tell you the exact same thing is weird like they practiced what to say
Arthur was like the one every member of the gang could depends him, but when he disappeared nobody went to look for him but no doubt if Charles know about that he will go to look for Arthur
@@oskyys6853 Honestly everyone at camp besides Dutch, Micah, and maybe Bill would be itching to go find him. Bill would be in but I don't see him instigating it
I don’t think he was played from the beginning. Arthur is a product of blind trust and loyalty to a leader, whose thoughts were corrupted by an increasingly dire situation and a devil on his shoulder. Micah was a true survivor, pragmatic and without any principles or sense of honor. He was able to slowly but surely tilt the scale in dutches mind from an idealist towards a pure survivor like himself. When arthur eventually realised what he had gotten himself into, it was already too late for him.
Do It. I'm on my 4th play through. You'll find new shit you missed and understand what's happening a lot better. Plus you'll know the best way to play the game like making your legend of the east satchel asap
Dutch's character has to be one of the greatest villains. Hes so manipulative, hes basically gotten many people to think it was just micah taking advantage of a man on edge😂
Have any of you heard the theory that micah set this up? When he was locked up in strawberry he was with an o’driscoll. The theory is he overheard the plans that they would set a meeting, kidnap one of the members and hold them hostage. Micah would then make sure it would be arthur that gets kidnapped. He was the one who told arthur to split to be the look out. Perhaps micah persuaded dutch not to go after arthur cause “it’s a set up dutch”. Arthur would be out of the picture just like he wanted. So when he heard pearson had been confronted with the o’driscolls fake parley he took the chance. Think about it. He was very motivated to do the parley. I mean would micah be the kind of person to care about making peace? Unless he had other motives. Micah however didn’t realize that arthur is built different so he got out anyway.
Nah if it was micah that set it up then Dutch would've been captured right there and then There are a few points that disproved this theory such as: - Micah already hated the O'Driscolls right from the start of the game - Pearson being the one who actually knew the parley - Colm treated his men as pawns, He wouldn't tell no plan on an ordinary o'driscoll not unless it's his most trusted member (Kieran barely knew anything either) - There would be no way Micah would be an O'Driscoll, He's a rat but he ain't an O'Driscoll rat, There's not a single tether that relates micah with an O'driscoll considering he likes to kill them most of the time as well as bully Kieran. - If Micah was an O'driscoll, Kieran would've recognized him atleast once considering there would be no way Colm wouldn't let go of a strong outlaw like Micah. - O'Driscoll boys are loyal to Colm, They wouldn't kill their own pack. - Micah genuinely feels sorry for letting Arthur go through torture, Even if you don't believe it it's very uncommon for Micah's tone to be more emphasizing thay actually felt like sorry. In conclusion, It's most likely that Micah only wanted to kill Colm O'Driscoll that's why he was so hyped up, Colm knew who's the one carrying the gang for them which is why he went for Arthur, Colm probably knew the gang more than Micah himself. As for the gang splitting up it was explained in the game, After the parley they would meet at the trail but Arthur never showed up. Ofcourse Dutch should be concerned but considering he knew how clever Arthur is as well as he didn't find anything wrong in the parley, It was most likely that Dutch thought Arthur would just roam around a few village as usual in the gameplay since he knew Arthur is basically a one-man army until this situation occured.
If you think about it, since the first mission, every encounter and ambush the gang has had was a result of Micah going behind their backs and squealing: The bank job, the ambush of O'Driscalls at the river, etc.
Micah was an asshole! I want to be surprised if if he set this up! There was plenty of opportunities in the game to throw Micah off a cliff! If that would’ve happened, the game would have been different the ending would have been different!
@@kimbaldun honestly i'm just sus of micah's every move. if i'm wrong then i'm wrong so whatever y'know. i just thought it would fit into micahs rat ways. other than that tough, you kinda put words in my mouth. small one. i know pearson was the one who knew. my suggestion was that micah knew as well before it even happened. then your 4th, 5th, and 6th points, were based on the assumtion that i think micah was an o'driscoll or at least worked with the o'driscolls. hell no. i never said that. that'd be a stupid theory. i said he overheard it from the o'driscoll in jail. not that he was in on it or even arranged it. more like he had info that he could take advantage of to get rid of arthur. leaving dutch to himself to milk more money. addresing your first sentence. Due to your assumption that i think micah is an o'driscoll, if that were so then micah would want dutch captured too cause he's on colms side. hence your first statement. BUT im saying micah only wants arthur out and then he makes sure dutch never goes to rescue arthur so dutch never gets captured and micah has dutch to himself. which is a proven goal of micah cause he achievs this in chapter 6. THAT'S his goal in the theory cause he is NOT an o'driscoll...in this theory. the last statement, idk, i just don't see it. if they agreed to meet somewhere afterwards and arthur does'nt show up for a while, i think dutch would be worried cause they agreed to meet up. hence my theory that micah convinced him not to with bullshit excuses like "that's what they want you to do dutch". but who knows maybe. this part is a stretch but i'm just wondering if dutch really just did'nt go after arthur just...because? maybe. idk. now you made one good point with your third one. thinking about it, a random o'driscoll knowing the plan may be unlikely. but i also think about the fact micah shot him right after getting out the cell. maybe he did'nt wanna be recognized when the kidnapping takes place and that o'driscoll would have known his face. but yeah this one is the weakest part of my theory. could just be micah doing micah shit. anyway im not replying to say "NO you are wrong and here is why my theory is right". im not trying to call you stupid. im not saying your refutes are stupid they are totally valid refutes...for a theory that does'nt really exist. so im saying your refutes are irrelevent. but i'm willing to be completely wrong about my theory so if you have refutes againts my theory then go for it BUT if im gonna be wrong then i better be actually wrong for my actual theory and not a misunderstood version of my theory. thats like if i said 2+2 is 7 and you said no 2+2 is not 5. like...yeah you're right and im wrong but your wrong about what im wrong about lmao. Long story short my theory is not "micah was on the side of the o'driscoll's with the plan". it's more like this. "micah knew about the plan before hand and used it as an oppurtunity to get rid of arthur".
@@apoloboi That's quite a good theory how micah wanted to use the moment to get rid of Arthur but there are a few points that also disproves that.. We do see that Micah may have been in Valentines and with an O'Driscoll but yeah it is unlikely to see that a random O'Driscoll would know about the plan on how they would get rid of Arthur considering Arthur and Dutch just recently moved to a new location prior to Micah being arrested, It's probably that after we wreck more havoc towards the O'Driscolls after Micah breakout that Colm had enough and decided to end devise a plan to capture Arthur. Micah wanting Dutch all by himself is a good theory however we do not know the motivation why micah wanted to manipulate and convince Dutch to side with him and it was only achieved in the Epilogue where Micah got his gang together along with the help of Dutch to plan Dutch's set-up to meet with the Pinkertons and this is mainly because of the high price on Dutch's head and not to rob a bank together with Dutch and how did he find out about it? Well he had a poster of Dutch's bounty in his camp in Valentine that's probably why. And following after the events of your first encounter with Colm, As much as we want to doubt that dutch never worried about arthur, He surely did however Arthur hasn't gone missing for a few days, Not even one night atleast. Every single thing we do during the early game (Eg. Robbing a bank, Killing a few O'Driscolls or Lemoyne Raiders etc.) We see Arthur freely go roam the open world after departing with Dutch, That's the way they do the Van Der Linde. Every robbery you do ends up in everyone going their own ways and as Arthur you can freely roam and not come back for a few days. It's the same situation with Colm, Nothing went wrong so Dutch assumed that things are okay, Remember Arthur is his strongest pawn and his most trusted member, He would walk in hell itself if Arthur was by his side. He had a lot of trust in Arthur that he would walk in hell itself so clearly Dutch wasn't all that worried not seeing Arthur after the event with Colm because he had a lot of faith in Arthur's abilities and did not realized Colm tricked him. When Micah was in Valentines Jail, It was pretty much Micah being Micah killing the O'Driscoll, I mean yeah we can assume he could probably get recognized by that O'Driscoll he was with but after that event you're literally fighting a whole parade or O'driscolls while riding a wagon and none of them even talked about Micah nor the truce, Because if they do we would've heard a Dialogue about Arthur and if the plan was spread through the O'Driscolls they all would've recognized Arthur and tried to spill something out. And Micah apologizing to Arthur is a huge thing since we see this antagonistic villain that is obsessed with power and full of hatred and sarcasm against everyone gets so submissive and genuine about his apology to arthur after the kidnapping arthur event, It's not the "Sorry i should have known", It's the "Sorry i shouldn't have agreed with it in the first place", We can see Micah being emphasizing only once in the whole game and that he feels regretful on what he did. In conclusion i do get your point that Micah is not an O'Driscoll and only there to take advantage of getting rid of Arthur but there are things that heavily disputes that Micah knew the plan way before Pearson gets informed.
I have a few ideas as to why this wasn’t Dutch lying or anything. 1.Arthur has quite the habit of disappearing from camp for possibly WEEKS on end, and re-appearing with enough money and food for everyone. 2. This is probably how shit went down at the crossroads. 🤠”Arthur should be here by now.” 🐀 “awww you know Old Morgan, always galavantin off someplace, he’ll be alright Dutch.” 🤠”Yeah I guess you’re right Micah” 3. Dutch doesn’t actually fucking care. Even if at this point, he truly THINKS he does. Isn’t it scary how psychos like dutch can think they understand human connection and empathy? If it wasn’t for Hosea, Dutch wouldn’t have had any of those values. Oops, right?
Dutch was a psycho you said it yourself. Did he really just think arthur was fine? They met with colm o'driscoll and didn't get killed, then arthur didn't show up at the meeting site. Doesn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together. That's some smooth brain, didn't live a life of crime, ass thinking if you think they had no idea.
Dutch was hoping deep down Arthur wouldn't make it back. He knew it it was a setup, hes not that dumb. Arthur was like the angel on his shoulder to Micah's devil and Dutch wanted to be able to let go and go with the easier bad side but Arthur kept bringing up everything he tried to ignore and compartmentalize while keeping up airs. This is common with certain personality disorders and dissonance of mind, the controlling part of their psyche will choke out or cut off any part of the self or relationship that forces them to face and reckon with their faults and evils. At least on the most overwhelming subconscious level, Dutch knew Arthur would have to be pruned in order for him to continue in the direction he is... well... not growing... more like metastasizing.
You're so right... I kept wondering why Dutch was trying so hard to get rid of Arthur and John, who even if he no longer cared for them were at least very useful to the gang, but it's because they dared to show traces of doubt... would he have done the same thing with Hosea?
Honestly i think hosea might be the one person dutch somewhat cared about at least enough to not straight leave him like he did arthur and john but that could also be because hosea was the only thing anchoring his delusional brain to reality even in chapter 1-2 his rhetoric reeks of delusion and hypocrisy the camp encounters really show dutchs true self early on if youre paying attention @@foxygrin
Man after i finished the main story i hella missed the old dutch Edit: for all the people saying "dutch was gone before the game started" i know🤦♂️ i meant the illusion of the old dutch, the nicer dutch, the dutch that looked like he cared Edit 2: 500 likes is pretty damn cool. Thanks😂
Micah already started doing so even before the game, remember Blackwater? Micah convinced Dutch to go through with it, went horribly wrong but that was mostly his doing (and Dutch's for being stupid enough to believe a word that man says)
@@h1tthero5d I agree it's pretty much completely Micah's fault, as well as Dutch being stupid enough to listen to that man's lies :") i think their fate was sealed as soon as they hit blackwater. damn micah.
@@hime8903 honestly I think Dutch was already manipulating everyone even before blackwater he operates like a narcissistic cult leader he talks all this good shit and even bullshits himself into believing it I think dutch was already a monster Micah just knew how to feed that side of him and bring it out Dutch manipulated the gang and Micah manipulated Dutch
I don't think Dutch was stupid to listen to Micah. In fact I'm sure it was also supposed to be a setup. Every mission seems like a way to get rid of members one by one. Dutch and Micah been had plans before backwater to take all the money without sharing. What better way to get rid of members by planning ridiculously dangerous plans. Dutch is always fine while everyone is always on the brink of being killed At some point we can safely assume he would get rid of Micah too. Dutch is always playing chess
He wanted Micah and Arthur because Arthur in his eyes was doubting him all the way back in colter I think it was a test to see if Arthur in his eyes was truly loyal he wanted to see if he would make it back in one piece and if he didn't then Micah was to be his replacement Micah was brought in so Dutch would have a new ruthless gunman to do his bidding
It’s super odd that nobody was suspicious, but I truly don’t think Dutch at this point was far gone enough to genuinely not care about Arthur. Honestly it seems like EVERYBODY at camp was shocked, leaving me to believe it’s almost more likely that Arthur is just so damn dangerous and self sufficient that absolutely nobody suspected he could even be captured at that point.
Knowing Micah. He was manipulating Dutch with snake talk. Probably telling Dutch something like: "Arthur will be fine, he is going to show up anytime now. Or maybe. He is off trying to get the money from Blackwater. Maybe Arthur is betraying us, in which case we are better off" Had Micah not been there i think Dutch would have mounted a rescue, but Micah probably convinced him not to. Thats why he says that not only does he feel bad, but Micha too. Micah feels bad.....My fucking ass he does.
I meannn Arthur lowkey was always just wondering off my camp for weeks on end😂 at least my Arthur was when hunting they use to always send someone to come find me
Arthurs loyalty was both his greatest asset and his weakest flaw and thats what Micah used to get the better of him in the end. Regardless, i was still suprised to see that Dutch hadn't even bothered to look for him. Thats when I knew that he wasn't as he seemed because anyone else in the gang, even Bill would have looked for him.
@@3n3j0t4not necessarily I mean the gang are all badass in their own right and it's not like they're not used to being outnumbered dutch could've done something especially since they specifically agreed to meet at the crossroads after the parley dutch isn't an idiot he's impulsive even this early in the game but not an idiot
When you say you are going to meet up at a specific place at a certain time and one of you doesn't show up... YOU GO LOOKING FOR THEM because obviously something went wrong! No bs excuses!!!!
This set up encounter with Colm is what truly convinced me that Dutch was a traitor to Arthur. I could feel something was fishy from the start but at this point it became just obvious.
@@EvilMockingJayi think they meant he as in arthur, i don’t think they were saying dutch was involved (that’s how i took it too dw). still, the circumstances are different, still worrying to anyone with brain, but you have to figure the gang werent told arthur’s missing - they were probably reassured that he’s fine. different presentations.
Especially if only Dutch and Micah went looking for him. They would have been heavily outnumbered and outgunned it would make more sense that they went back to camp to regroup and have everyone search for Arthur.
My Brother-In-Christ, Dutch was once prepared *_TO GO BACK TO BLACKWATER_* just for *_A CHANCE_* to get Sean back. Was willing to murder a family of Bootleggers for Jack. The Dutch from Ch.1 & 2 wouldn't hold back just because *_"The O'Driscolls are a really big gang."_*
Funnily enough I suspected Dutch way back when they were in the horse shoe camp. He was randomly yelling at Arthur that he would betray Dutch. He was acting like a madman.
@@NotWolfikThere were signs Micah was a rat even before Guarma. The Pinkertons making that deal with Colm, and Micah setting it up, the Ferry job that Micah talked Dutch into which ended up being surrounded by Pinkertons, Micah insisting to head back to Blackwater where it’s swarming with Pinkertons, just to name a few of examples. There’s also another thing other folks mentioned, with Micah wearing a white suit during the Bank robbery, whereas everyone else was wearing black, so the Pinkertons would recognize him. I don’t know whether Micah dealt with someone else other than Milton before Guarma, or if he sent anonymous tips through post mail or something, but there’s plenty of signs Micah was involved with the Pinkertons, even before Milton personally picked him up after Guarma.
@@jakandratchet9930 what were hes intentions tho? After guarma the gang was falling apart so micah wanted the money for himself. But before the gang was in pretty good shape
I mean wouldn't you be surprised that your loyal follower just appeared completely fucked up and in serious need of help? And oh well Arthur does do a lot of things outside the camp before going back they might have just believed it was another one of those errands. If the others suspected something they would have tried to investigate and find Arthur
Hey I watch a lot of editors that do rdr2 and rdr1 edits, but they all have different Arthur's per example red dead cljps has all black gunslinger outfit (the normal gunslinger outfit but black). Rdr outlaw has a modded deadly assassin outfit for Arthur etc. what I'm trying to say is that it's a great way to distinguish every other channel
If it was a solo mission it would make sense as we sometimes dont come back for days on end but the fact its with dutch hurts me to my core. He knew something happened and was like. “It’s Arthur, im sure hes got it”
Arthur wouldn’t leave Dutch like that. But Dutch did it multiple Times to people. Love got Arthur killed, he could’ve lived a better life if he didn’t spent all his time being a gun for the gang, sometimes you love stuff that doesn’t love you back, it’s crazy cause life really be like that sometimes, I’m glad rockstar captured that
There is something about Dutch that I'm sure. There is NO short answer about his personality nor his actions. Stop looking at Dutch as entirely bad or good person. Because your wrong in both ways. We can look at him as person who is trying to make the best of everything, but he is so blinded with his "truth" that over time he just keep doing wrong things. That cost him with losing everything he got including his sanity. If you beliving in something so deep and with passion, can you call that person that he mailnipulates the people? No! Micah is manipulator, Dutch is more blind then anything. And he has problems with his ego that's for sure. About that situation. You have to know that Micah was with him and if this was part of Micah and Colm plan, that means Micah somehow convinced Dutch that Arthur is ok and that he probaly leave for one or another reason. Then was no reason to betray Arthur so soon in the story. Arthur was useful not to mention their good realtionship. And I think the first person who was start moving out of that relationship was Arthur not Dutch. Dutch left Arthur behind at King's son mission. Not before. He probably evem didn't know how wrong he is because suddenly he used Micah for planing. Arthur had his doubts about Dutch way before. If not sooner, certainly when Dutch killed Angelo Bronte. So we can conclude at the end. In RDR1 we knew about him almost nothing. Now we know maybe half of his personality after RDR2. There is still a lot things about Dutch that is really confusing. We are far from knowing his entire peronality if we ever get that far.
Dutch isn't dumb he knew Micha was trying to get into his head (confirmed in chapter 3 camp dialog) but he went along with it anyway because Micha was the biggest yes man of the gang. Also Dutch left Arthur and John (basically his adopted sons) for dead and shot an innocent girl in the head in blackwater. Dutch might have some redeemable moments but overall he's a bad man.
This specific mission and a few other reasons, are why i believe Micah was a rat before guarma. Micah is the one that apparently hears this info from Pearson, and brings it to Dutch. Micah most likely convinced Dutch Arthur was "fine" when they didn't see him again. Also in the beginning of the game Hosea mentioned that the ferry job in blackwater was specifically Micah's job, and that he convinced Dutch to go through with it. The Blackwater job is mentioned to be the beginning of the end for the gang all throughout the game.
“Micah and I” shows how there are 2 people in charge and both feel “guilty” about not going back for Arthur. If you think about this, it clearly shows that Micah is considered a leader as he could’ve had the gang go back for him same as Dutch. Also shows how connected him and Micah are considering John, bill javier and the others probably would’ve went for Arthur if it came down to it and dutches choice of words probably would’ve been “we all feel like a fool for leaving you behind” or something that shows that it’s not just who’s in charge (Dutch) that’s making decisions.
“we went to meet you on the trail, weird how you never showed up.” when it came down to Jack, Dutch held no hesitation to go looking for him, but when it came down to trying to find his right hand man, he was nowhere to be found.
Well that's how he manipulates people, obviously the grown man wanders off and no one bags an eye or dutch makes up an excuse to lure people in but when it comes to jack he's one of the hearts of the group if jack goes missing you can't just say oh well, that'll piss everyone off and leave dutch alone
You guys are acting as if Dutch manipulated Arthur, but let's be real, Arthur frequently leaves camp for weeks without returning, so it's only natural for Dutch to assume that Arthur went off after the meeting with the O'Driscolls.
They agreed to meet back at the crossroads after the meeting. Arthur wouldn’t have just went off doing other stuff before meeting back up. As soon as he didn’t show up after the meeting they should have known shit went sour and sent out all men looking and tracking for him. That’s what the gang does every time someone is taken. Arthur went & rescued multiple members before this happened. They just went on like they didn’t care. It was all super fucced
@@JIIGY I mean they did mark to meet up but who is to say Arthur would listen? He could have seen a money opportunity for the gang when going down the mountain and went to take it. There's actually many possibilities of why Arthur could've not gone back to the meeting spot.
Honestly, people try and make this out to be an example of Dutch trying to get rid of Arthur or whatever but honestly? I think he was being genuine here, at this point in the story he has no reason to want to grt rid of Arthur, not even a made up one. I think it was a mistake. Plus people being like "he didnt go after Arthur!" He barely knew what happened or where they took him
He was probably so puzzled by the meeting with Colm that he didn't even realize Arthur didn't meet back up with him. It's also possible that he questioned Arthur's absence, and Micah dismissed it as Arthur wandering off or heading back to camp without them.
@@GANONdork123 exactly!! Thank you! Like, its so much more likely that Dutch was like "Hey, wheres Arthur? He said he'll meet us here?" And Micah goes "Ah dont worry about that cowpoke, hes probably off drawing a flower or somethin again boss"
I love how we all played this game the first time and we’re under Dutch’s illusion for so long but now you can replay the game and see things you didn’t see the first time with enlightened eyes. Cause let’s be honest so many of us believed in Dutch til nearly the very end even if we felt some type of way. It’s like you’re experiencing the story differently every time you play because you realize more things that they hid in little cutscenes or interactions. Genius story telling by rockstar
To be fair, my Arthur tends to be randomly gone for days just picking flowers, hunting small game or going fishing. So Dutch reasoning he's off on another trip didn't raise any flags for me.
I think Dutch really went south after that bash on the head. His change in character really takes a quick turn for the worse afterwards. Dude got a TBI for sure
*Dutch’s right hand man goes missing*
Dutch: 👀🤔🤨🤷♂️😴😐
I mean.. i usually spend weeks away from camp during free roam.. soo... Yah
@@anonymous_dot_com2326 same lol. Have you been away from camp for so long that he will send one of the gang members after you?
I think Dutch’s right hand man was Hosea
Okay... his first adopted son@@tongthairestaurants2545
@@tongthairestaurants2545Hosea was the other leader, Arthur was the main enforcer.
Dutch's manipulation was on point
At this point I think he’s being honest. Arthur was still loyal to him and he had no reason to try and get Arthur killed… yet.
@@YaBoiDREXjust before i started getting into Beue gray’s story, Dutch said something like “I know you’ll betray me in the end Arthur” and Arthur said something in utter confusion
Dutch didn’t care for awhile
@@YaBoiDREXbuut, arthur didnt come back to the trail, colm didnt attack.
And dutch didn't suspect a single thing and just went to chill in camp? idk seems weird, maybe micah was reassuring him saying everything was fine
@@FemboyKaiSaku Micah was reassuring him because he most likely set Arthur up and Arthur leaves camps for weeks then comes back with legendary pelts and tons of money.
@@YaBoiDREX yea Arthur leaves camp for weeks, but he never would just leave out of nowhere when he is expected to meet up lol
I wouldn’t have bought that. No one went looking for Arthur. It would be alarming he wasn’t there after the meeting
I mean, it was only a day. Arthur often went missing for weeks.
@@xLanzerYeah but AFTER you meet with your sworn enemy and they just... leave? No bargins, no taunts. They just leave. That wouldn't make you a liiiiiiitle suspicious?
Exactly, Arthur wouldn’t have left his post for anything on his own terms, if he was asked to cover Dutch. And Dutch shouldve known that.
@@RoastTurtle2 again, it was just one day.
@@xLanzer One day, one hour. It doesn't matter how long. If you can't sense the suspension there then it's a good thing you aren't a Detective
The fact that him and Micah say the exact same thing almost word for word shows they had a deeper connection since the beginning. Small detail but worth it if you pay attention
It feels like Dutch was manipulated by micah. They mention micah had only been with them for a few months. Arthur Dutch and Hosea had been together for like 10 years before rdr2
@@givenchycode8439isnt it 20 years that dutch hosea and arthur have been together
@@soxysack3287 yea, 20 years. Never forget charles saying "20 years?!" When they talk about micah
@soxysack3287 maybe yeah I just knew it was least like 10
That’s right if you listen to the conversations between Dutch and Arthur Dutch is always worried that Arthur is about to turn on him or doesn’t trust him fully anymore or whatever so I believe that him and Micah were just like hey, this is a chance to get rid of Arthur let’s get rid of him when have you ever left camp and not been back for a while and they don’t send someone looking after you
He went after john twice , Rescued bill , Sean , Micah and then when he was lost during a mission that was dead odd and he didn’t come back they were like : don’t worry he’ll show up
He should have left Dutch and the gang after that
To be fair, he did show up lol. Not the point though!
@@B52Stratofortress1😂😂😂😂
@@B52Stratofortress1 Arthur: What if I couldn’t escape and got killed?!
Dutch: Did you?
Arthur: Ain’t the damn point Dutch!!!
@@B52Stratofortress1 😂😂😂
You know, for being the power of the group. They Forget about him pretty quickly
Well, depending on how you play the main story, Arthur being gone for a few days wouldn’t raise much concern, but I had the suspicion of denial in the group, especially after an event of that measure.
@@panchito_1002they agreed to meet up after talking to Colm tho which is weird that they just left him behind
@CursedMohawk but only Dutch and Micah were there then...
@@CursedMohawk Micah probably convinced Dutch that Arthur was probably still scouting the party and would return soon. Micah is an underestimated manipulator.
@@panchito_1002 I don’t think he was that good of a manipulater like we think Dutch is just a bore judge of character he knew Arty had his reasons for not liking Micah and he choose to looks past it constantly ignoring all his red flags first person to suggest Micah talks Dutch into leaving I could see him doing it
“Micah and I..”
Disgusting to hear that honestly
Get marry with micah Dutch. I know you want it
Michael and I … Michelle and I loll
@@sunxnes fr
Dutch why didn’t you look for Arthur
I antagonized Dutch and Micah every chance I got after that mission 😩🤣🤣
I think it was in chapter 2, Dutch started talking shit to Arthur out of the blue. After that I was like fuck you dutch
@@Inthatgoodwaylmao fuck you dutch 🤣🤣 I laughed at that a lil too hard bro 💯good shit my friend
YOU NEED SOME GODDAMN FAITH!!!
I HAVE A PLAN🗣🗣🗣@@JXßT3R
We. Need. Money.
Man when I first played this game for whatever reason I loved Dutch. He was like father to the gang and watching him slowly descend into madness was heart breaking
Same they created the game so good
same it was soso saddening
not really sad cuz u learn he was using the gang for money the whole time
He has a great charisma especially in the first couple of chapters so I liked him quite a bit in the beginning too even though I had already played the first game
@@sw1sh839he wasn’t using them for money, no matter how much they had he never cared, what Dutch cared about was simply killing and robbing folk and living that life, regardless of how heroic he made it sound, your still killing and robbing people, there was never a retirement or escape plan, his plan was to keep going until they all died.
You can tell Arthur was hurt by Dutch not showing up
BS even that far back in the beginning. Life went on as usual without arthur there seems like
@Sawyer-fj7ju after guarma definitely seemed like it
I strongly believe that Dutch sold Arthur to O'Driscoll, doubt was his first idea but probably they made a deal during the meeting
@@matheuspimentel5828 you think Dutch sold his best gun to colm?😂😂😂
Dude it was just one day wtf
@Sawyer-fj7juthe worst part about the RDR2 community is these stupid theories.
My problem with this is how at the beginning of the mission they say we’ll all meet right here at the crossroads if everything goes smooth. Then Author doesn’t show up and I guess they were like oh well.
Yes that’s my problem with it and people going oh it’s only been a day clearly didn’t notice that tiny detail the fact Micah and him tell you the exact same thing is weird like they practiced what to say
Arthur*
@@simpled5755 thanks grammar police
@@wheelsodeath4237well it's a spell check not a grammar check
@@wheelsodeath4237that's a spell check not grammar check, you look like an idiot when you can't even spell the main character's name correctly 😂
"Bill got something cookin in rhodes witb the grays, sean and micah too."
Me: *short walk in a pretty town flashbacks*
I know! Thought of that immediately.
Arthur was like the one every member of the gang could depends him, but when he disappeared nobody went to look for him but no doubt if Charles know about that he will go to look for Arthur
If you stay away from camp long enough(4-5 game days) Charles or Havier will come looking for you. Had this happen several times.
Right
@@Chainsnsprockets402 I won't stand for this Bill erasure, though how he's able to track you is a mystery...
Or Lenny, Bill, Sean, Hosea, Javier, Sadie. Practically every gang member cared about Arthur more than Dutch and Micah.
@@oskyys6853 Honestly everyone at camp besides Dutch, Micah, and maybe Bill would be itching to go find him. Bill would be in but I don't see him instigating it
Now I've finished the game, I want to play it again to realise how they played me all the way from the start.
I don’t think he was played from the beginning. Arthur is a product of blind trust and loyalty to a leader, whose thoughts were corrupted by an increasingly dire situation and a devil on his shoulder. Micah was a true survivor, pragmatic and without any principles or sense of honor. He was able to slowly but surely tilt the scale in dutches mind from an idealist towards a pure survivor like himself. When arthur eventually realised what he had gotten himself into, it was already too late for him.
Do It. I'm on my 4th play through. You'll find new shit you missed and understand what's happening a lot better. Plus you'll know the best way to play the game like making your legend of the east satchel asap
“THEY PLAYED ME LIKE A DAMN FIDDLE!”
i’ve played and finished the game 5 times before i’m on my 6th play through
@@xiindoix9845RDR2 is an experience
Dutch's character has to be one of the greatest villains. Hes so manipulative, hes basically gotten many people to think it was just micah taking advantage of a man on edge😂
Have any of you heard the theory that micah set this up? When he was locked up in strawberry he was with an o’driscoll. The theory is he overheard the plans that they would set a meeting, kidnap one of the members and hold them hostage. Micah would then make sure it would be arthur that gets kidnapped. He was the one who told arthur to split to be the look out. Perhaps micah persuaded dutch not to go after arthur cause “it’s a set up dutch”. Arthur would be out of the picture just like he wanted. So when he heard pearson had been confronted with the o’driscolls fake parley he took the chance. Think about it. He was very motivated to do the parley. I mean would micah be the kind of person to care about making peace? Unless he had other motives. Micah however didn’t realize that arthur is built different so he got out anyway.
Nah if it was micah that set it up then Dutch would've been captured right there and then
There are a few points that disproved this theory such as:
- Micah already hated the O'Driscolls right from the start of the game
- Pearson being the one who actually knew the parley
- Colm treated his men as pawns, He wouldn't tell no plan on an ordinary o'driscoll not unless it's his most trusted member (Kieran barely knew anything either)
- There would be no way Micah would be an O'Driscoll, He's a rat but he ain't an O'Driscoll rat, There's not a single tether that relates micah with an O'driscoll considering he likes to kill them most of the time as well as bully Kieran.
- If Micah was an O'driscoll, Kieran would've recognized him atleast once considering there would be no way Colm wouldn't let go of a strong outlaw like Micah.
- O'Driscoll boys are loyal to Colm, They wouldn't kill their own pack.
- Micah genuinely feels sorry for letting Arthur go through torture, Even if you don't believe it it's very uncommon for Micah's tone to be more emphasizing thay actually felt like sorry.
In conclusion, It's most likely that Micah only wanted to kill Colm O'Driscoll that's why he was so hyped up, Colm knew who's the one carrying the gang for them which is why he went for Arthur, Colm probably knew the gang more than Micah himself.
As for the gang splitting up it was explained in the game, After the parley they would meet at the trail but Arthur never showed up. Ofcourse Dutch should be concerned but considering he knew how clever Arthur is as well as he didn't find anything wrong in the parley, It was most likely that Dutch thought Arthur would just roam around a few village as usual in the gameplay since he knew Arthur is basically a one-man army until this situation occured.
If you think about it, since the first mission, every encounter and ambush the gang has had was a result of Micah going behind their backs and squealing: The bank job, the ambush of O'Driscalls at the river, etc.
Micah was an asshole! I want to be surprised if if he set this up! There was plenty of opportunities in the game to throw Micah off a cliff! If that would’ve happened, the game would have been different the ending would have been different!
@@kimbaldun honestly i'm just sus of micah's every move. if i'm wrong then i'm wrong so whatever y'know. i just thought it would fit into micahs rat ways.
other than that tough, you kinda put words in my mouth. small one. i know pearson was the one who knew. my suggestion was that micah knew as well before it even happened. then your 4th, 5th, and 6th points, were based on the assumtion that i think micah was an o'driscoll or at least worked with the o'driscolls. hell no. i never said that. that'd be a stupid theory. i said he overheard it from the o'driscoll in jail. not that he was in on it or even arranged it. more like he had info that he could take advantage of to get rid of arthur. leaving dutch to himself to milk more money.
addresing your first sentence.
Due to your assumption that i think micah is an o'driscoll, if that were so then micah would want dutch captured too cause he's on colms side. hence your first statement. BUT im saying micah only wants arthur out and then he makes sure dutch never goes to rescue arthur so dutch never gets captured and micah has dutch to himself. which is a proven goal of micah cause he achievs this in chapter 6. THAT'S his goal in the theory cause he is NOT an o'driscoll...in this theory.
the last statement, idk, i just don't see it. if they agreed to meet somewhere afterwards and arthur does'nt show up for a while, i think dutch would be worried cause they agreed to meet up. hence my theory that micah convinced him not to with bullshit excuses like "that's what they want you to do dutch". but who knows maybe. this part is a stretch but i'm just wondering if dutch really just did'nt go after arthur just...because? maybe. idk.
now you made one good point with your third one. thinking about it, a random o'driscoll knowing the plan may be unlikely. but i also think about the fact micah shot him right after getting out the cell. maybe he did'nt wanna be recognized when the kidnapping takes place and that o'driscoll would have known his face. but yeah this one is the weakest part of my theory. could just be micah doing micah shit.
anyway im not replying to say "NO you are wrong and here is why my theory is right". im not trying to call you stupid. im not saying your refutes are stupid they are totally valid refutes...for a theory that does'nt really exist. so im saying your refutes are irrelevent. but i'm willing to be completely wrong about my theory so if you have refutes againts my theory then go for it BUT if im gonna be wrong then i better be actually wrong for my actual theory and not a misunderstood version of my theory.
thats like if i said 2+2 is 7 and you said no 2+2 is not 5. like...yeah you're right and im wrong but your wrong about what im wrong about lmao.
Long story short my theory is not "micah was on the side of the o'driscoll's with the plan".
it's more like this. "micah knew about the plan before hand and used it as an oppurtunity to get rid of arthur".
@@apoloboi That's quite a good theory how micah wanted to use the moment to get rid of Arthur but there are a few points that also disproves that..
We do see that Micah may have been in Valentines and with an O'Driscoll but yeah it is unlikely to see that a random O'Driscoll would know about the plan on how they would get rid of Arthur considering Arthur and Dutch just recently moved to a new location prior to Micah being arrested, It's probably that after we wreck more havoc towards the O'Driscolls after Micah breakout that Colm had enough and decided to end devise a plan to capture Arthur.
Micah wanting Dutch all by himself is a good theory however we do not know the motivation why micah wanted to manipulate and convince Dutch to side with him and it was only achieved in the Epilogue where Micah got his gang together along with the help of Dutch to plan Dutch's set-up to meet with the Pinkertons and this is mainly because of the high price on Dutch's head and not to rob a bank together with Dutch and how did he find out about it? Well he had a poster of Dutch's bounty in his camp in Valentine that's probably why.
And following after the events of your first encounter with Colm, As much as we want to doubt that dutch never worried about arthur, He surely did however Arthur hasn't gone missing for a few days, Not even one night atleast. Every single thing we do during the early game (Eg. Robbing a bank, Killing a few O'Driscolls or Lemoyne Raiders etc.) We see Arthur freely go roam the open world after departing with Dutch, That's the way they do the Van Der Linde. Every robbery you do ends up in everyone going their own ways and as Arthur you can freely roam and not come back for a few days. It's the same situation with Colm, Nothing went wrong so Dutch assumed that things are okay, Remember Arthur is his strongest pawn and his most trusted member, He would walk in hell itself if Arthur was by his side. He had a lot of trust in Arthur that he would walk in hell itself so clearly Dutch wasn't all that worried not seeing Arthur after the event with Colm because he had a lot of faith in Arthur's abilities and did not realized Colm tricked him.
When Micah was in Valentines Jail, It was pretty much Micah being Micah killing the O'Driscoll, I mean yeah we can assume he could probably get recognized by that O'Driscoll he was with but after that event you're literally fighting a whole parade or O'driscolls while riding a wagon and none of them even talked about Micah nor the truce, Because if they do we would've heard a Dialogue about Arthur and if the plan was spread through the O'Driscolls they all would've recognized Arthur and tried to spill something out.
And Micah apologizing to Arthur is a huge thing since we see this antagonistic villain that is obsessed with power and full of hatred and sarcasm against everyone gets so submissive and genuine about his apology to arthur after the kidnapping arthur event, It's not the "Sorry i should have known", It's the "Sorry i shouldn't have agreed with it in the first place", We can see Micah being emphasizing only once in the whole game and that he feels regretful on what he did.
In conclusion i do get your point that Micah is not an O'Driscoll and only there to take advantage of getting rid of Arthur but there are things that heavily disputes that Micah knew the plan way before Pearson gets informed.
I have a few ideas as to why this wasn’t Dutch lying or anything.
1.Arthur has quite the habit of disappearing from camp for possibly WEEKS on end, and re-appearing with enough money and food for everyone.
2. This is probably how shit went down at the crossroads.
🤠”Arthur should be here by now.”
🐀 “awww you know Old Morgan, always galavantin off someplace, he’ll be alright Dutch.”
🤠”Yeah I guess you’re right Micah”
3. Dutch doesn’t actually fucking care. Even if at this point, he truly THINKS he does. Isn’t it scary how psychos like dutch can think they understand human connection and empathy? If it wasn’t for Hosea, Dutch wouldn’t have had any of those values.
Oops, right?
Facts
This is my take as well
Dutch was a psycho you said it yourself. Did he really just think arthur was fine? They met with colm o'driscoll and didn't get killed, then arthur didn't show up at the meeting site. Doesn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together. That's some smooth brain, didn't live a life of crime, ass thinking if you think they had no idea.
Just wanted to say your use of emojis to represent them was very good 😂😂
@@astaroth5024”isn’t it scary how psychos like Dutch can think they understand human connection and empathy?”- what a fucking thought
For being the most important asset to the camp Dutch really didn't care too much about it missing
Dutch was hoping deep down Arthur wouldn't make it back. He knew it it was a setup, hes not that dumb. Arthur was like the angel on his shoulder to Micah's devil and Dutch wanted to be able to let go and go with the easier bad side but Arthur kept bringing up everything he tried to ignore and compartmentalize while keeping up airs. This is common with certain personality disorders and dissonance of mind, the controlling part of their psyche will choke out or cut off any part of the self or relationship that forces them to face and reckon with their faults and evils. At least on the most overwhelming subconscious level, Dutch knew Arthur would have to be pruned in order for him to continue in the direction he is... well... not growing... more like metastasizing.
You're so right... I kept wondering why Dutch was trying so hard to get rid of Arthur and John, who even if he no longer cared for them were at least very useful to the gang, but it's because they dared to show traces of doubt... would he have done the same thing with Hosea?
Honestly i think hosea might be the one person dutch somewhat cared about at least enough to not straight leave him like he did arthur and john but that could also be because hosea was the only thing anchoring his delusional brain to reality even in chapter 1-2 his rhetoric reeks of delusion and hypocrisy the camp encounters really show dutchs true self early on if youre paying attention @@foxygrin
Man after i finished the main story i hella missed the old dutch
Edit: for all the people saying "dutch was gone before the game started" i know🤦♂️ i meant the illusion of the old dutch, the nicer dutch, the dutch that looked like he cared
Edit 2: 500 likes is pretty damn cool. Thanks😂
Same he just went off the rails like a 360 in personality
@@seanrobey8335 180 Bruv. A 360 would be all the way around.
@@flipflopsky136 yea its true💀💀💀
@@flipflopsky136 whoops🤣
@@seanrobey8335 simple mistake😂
The fact everyone is debating if he's being genuine or not really shows how well written this game is
That point we remembered but not noticed. This was the beginning when Micah started to get in Dutch's ears.
Micah already started doing so even before the game, remember Blackwater? Micah convinced Dutch to go through with it, went horribly wrong but that was mostly his doing (and Dutch's for being stupid enough to believe a word that man says)
@@h1tthero5d I agree it's pretty much completely Micah's fault, as well as Dutch being stupid enough to listen to that man's lies :") i think their fate was sealed as soon as they hit blackwater. damn micah.
@@hime8903he also encouraged Dutch to kill that woman on the boat during the Blackwater ferry job.
@@hime8903 honestly I think Dutch was already manipulating everyone even before blackwater he operates like a narcissistic cult leader he talks all this good shit and even bullshits himself into believing it I think dutch was already a monster Micah just knew how to feed that side of him and bring it out Dutch manipulated the gang and Micah manipulated Dutch
I don't think Dutch was stupid to listen to Micah.
In fact I'm sure it was also supposed to be a setup. Every mission seems like a way to get rid of members one by one.
Dutch and Micah been had plans before backwater to take all the money without sharing. What better way to get rid of members by planning ridiculously dangerous plans. Dutch is always fine while everyone is always on the brink of being killed
At some point we can safely assume he would get rid of Micah too.
Dutch is always playing chess
I swear Dutch is the best villain and manipulater he's such a good character
It really isn't a "secret camp encounter", you just have to walk over and talk to Dutch.
What we never think of is how even Hosea didn't felt it was a bit suspicous for Arthur to not come back without saying anything
Indeed ! He said to Dutch at the start "it's a trap"...
Micah and Dutch might've told hosea after it was done that he went to valentine or something idk
You know damn well Dutch was lying through his teeth saying he was sorry😂😂
“And son…I’m sorry.”
🙁…
Considerng someone dies every time I take a little too long to fight back, it's safe to assume the gang would be dead within a week without Arthur
Dutch would 100% get them all killed
Micah is as good as arthur he'd take his place
@@hellgates_javed6451micah was not half of arthur on combat but he can play dutch on his palm
Also Colm admits it while he tortures Arthur, that his plan was that from the beginning, to capture and torture him and rile up Dutch
Everythime Duch saya “Son”, I was like “You ain’t my daddy”
Pay attention when he calls the gang his sons. He uses that to get them to do his bidding
Dutch could've had somebody there to watch Arthur's back fucking with that hostile gang
He wanted Micah and Arthur because Arthur in his eyes was doubting him all the way back in colter I think it was a test to see if Arthur in his eyes was truly loyal he wanted to see if he would make it back in one piece and if he didn't then Micah was to be his replacement Micah was brought in so Dutch would have a new ruthless gunman to do his bidding
It’s super odd that nobody was suspicious, but I truly don’t think Dutch at this point was far gone enough to genuinely not care about Arthur. Honestly it seems like EVERYBODY at camp was shocked, leaving me to believe it’s almost more likely that Arthur is just so damn dangerous and self sufficient that absolutely nobody suspected he could even be captured at that point.
Played this mission last night for the first time in years the amount of hints I’m pissed at myself for missing is insane
so, a man who was like son to him never showed up after a meeting with the rival gang and he just went on his way.
OK…
Knowing Micah. He was manipulating Dutch with snake talk. Probably telling Dutch something like:
"Arthur will be fine, he is going to show up anytime now. Or maybe. He is off trying to get the money from Blackwater. Maybe Arthur is betraying us, in which case we are better off"
Had Micah not been there i think Dutch would have mounted a rescue, but Micah probably convinced him not to. Thats why he says that not only does he feel bad, but Micha too. Micah feels bad.....My fucking ass he does.
I meannn Arthur lowkey was always just wondering off my camp for weeks on end😂 at least my Arthur was when hunting they use to always send someone to come find me
@@SleepyjoeOGthey said they’d meet up after the meeting on the rosd
@@SleepyjoeOG they explicitly planned to meet up after the parley though. He would've shown up
@@SleepyjoeOGyea but this was different they agreed to meet at the crossroads Arthur would've definitely been there period
Playing this fucking game for the second time is insane because of how much foreshadowing you see from it
ikr
Arthurs loyalty was both his greatest asset and his weakest flaw and thats what Micah used to get the better of him in the end. Regardless, i was still suprised to see that Dutch hadn't even bothered to look for him. Thats when I knew that he wasn't as he seemed because anyone else in the gang, even Bill would have looked for him.
He would’ve gotten slaughtered if he searched for Arthur lol
Even Uncle? He's got lumbago you know... very serious!
@@3n3j0t4not necessarily I mean the gang are all badass in their own right and it's not like they're not used to being outnumbered dutch could've done something especially since they specifically agreed to meet at the crossroads after the parley dutch isn't an idiot he's impulsive even this early in the game but not an idiot
He moves his damn arms and hands so much when talking he might as well just speak sign language
This is funny
Arthur doesn’t come back after meeting with odriscols: nothing happened
Arthur doesn’t come back normally: it’s time to send charles
Love how he’s speaking for Micah when I know damn well He didn’t feel bad for him at all
Arthur was the sacrifice to keep the peace dutch knew what he was doing
And some dolts still think that narcissistic psychopaths (Dutch, Micah) are cool
Those guys are the plain examples of town idiots.
there's always something new in this almost 6 years old game.
The biggest gaslighter ever in a video game
This gang really Just survive so long thanks to Arthur
When you say you are going to meet up at a specific place at a certain time and one of you doesn't show up... YOU GO LOOKING FOR THEM because obviously something went wrong! No bs excuses!!!!
Empty words
This set up encounter with Colm is what truly convinced me that Dutch was a traitor to Arthur. I could feel something was fishy from the start but at this point it became just obvious.
That's crazy he went back for John in the beginning of the game by when it's the other way around nobody wants to go help look for him smh
He didn't. Abigail asked Arthur and Javier to help, and Hosea insisted so he said yes. Dutch wasn't involved during the mission.
@@EvilMockingJayi think they meant he as in arthur, i don’t think they were saying dutch was involved (that’s how i took it too dw). still, the circumstances are different, still worrying to anyone with brain, but you have to figure the gang werent told arthur’s missing - they were probably reassured that he’s fine. different presentations.
@@cecidiadvos that make sense !
@@cecidiadvosCharles or John would have definitely looked for Arthur
You mean the John that got revenge for Arthur’s death by killing Micah🧐☝️
Arthur "we all met back up on this trail alright"
Dutch when he gets to said meeting point "huh well thats sure weird"
Wooooooooow... The dialogue bro.. great performance from Dutch
Replaying it its so easy to see how malevolent he turned after hitting his head on the trolley incident
The thing is the o driscolls are a really big gang with multiple hidings
Searching Arthur at this timing where pure suicide for the gang
Especially if only Dutch and Micah went looking for him. They would have been heavily outnumbered and outgunned it would make more sense that they went back to camp to regroup and have everyone search for Arthur.
My Brother-In-Christ, Dutch was once prepared *_TO GO BACK TO BLACKWATER_* just for *_A CHANCE_* to get Sean back.
Was willing to murder a family of Bootleggers for Jack.
The Dutch from Ch.1 & 2 wouldn't hold back just because *_"The O'Driscolls are a really big gang."_*
@@Jamushu Yeah but in both instances he had the others there to help him. There's no way he would have gone solo since it would have been suicide.
@@nicolasneal204 At least we both agree Micah would ditch him.
@@nicolasneal204they didn't go search for him...
Funnily enough I suspected Dutch way back when they were in the horse shoe camp. He was randomly yelling at Arthur that he would betray Dutch. He was acting like a madman.
Hosea already warned them
He’s hiding something he hesitated their for a sec bro
I think micah set him up. How else would they know Arthur was on that ridge
Because that was their plan all along. Colm explained it to arthur when he was beating him 😂. All you gotta do is pay attention
@@xiindoix9845😂
Dutch was a real one
i think micah set it up for arthur to get killed by colm so he could take arthurs place and manipulate dutch even more then he did
Didnt micah became a traitor after Guarma?
@@NotWolfikThere were signs Micah was a rat even before Guarma. The Pinkertons making that deal with Colm, and Micah setting it up, the Ferry job that Micah talked Dutch into which ended up being surrounded by Pinkertons, Micah insisting to head back to Blackwater where it’s swarming with Pinkertons, just to name a few of examples.
There’s also another thing other folks mentioned, with Micah wearing a white suit during the Bank robbery, whereas everyone else was wearing black, so the Pinkertons would recognize him.
I don’t know whether Micah dealt with someone else other than Milton before Guarma, or if he sent anonymous tips through post mail or something, but there’s plenty of signs Micah was involved with the Pinkertons, even before Milton personally picked him up after Guarma.
@@jakandratchet9930 what were hes intentions tho? After guarma the gang was falling apart so micah wanted the money for himself. But before the gang was in pretty good shape
@@NotWolfikgo out there and revisit his former camp near Strawberry and see what you find there, d**b b*****d
Why would Dutch want Arthur dead at this point in the story? He didn’t. He’s being genuine here.
When arthur arrives on the camp dutch is really surprised, maybe he has no plan at all to save arthur
I mean wouldn't you be surprised that your loyal follower just appeared completely fucked up and in serious need of help? And oh well Arthur does do a lot of things outside the camp before going back they might have just believed it was another one of those errands. If the others suspected something they would have tried to investigate and find Arthur
Micah had this set up, he believes getting Arthur out of the way,then he would be second behind Dutch
Bro you gotta change your Arthur’s hair bro that’s just not it
Maybe
Dreamy animu samurai. Ugh.
@@sxrdo javier hair are the best
Please@@sxrdo
Hey I watch a lot of editors that do rdr2 and rdr1 edits, but they all have different Arthur's per example red dead cljps has all black gunslinger outfit (the normal gunslinger outfit but black). Rdr outlaw has a modded deadly assassin outfit for Arthur etc. what I'm trying to say is that it's a great way to distinguish every other channel
If it was a solo mission it would make sense as we sometimes dont come back for days on end but the fact its with dutch hurts me to my core. He knew something happened and was like. “It’s Arthur, im sure hes got it”
Arthur wouldn’t leave Dutch like that. But Dutch did it multiple Times to people. Love got Arthur killed, he could’ve lived a better life if he didn’t spent all his time being a gun for the gang, sometimes you love stuff that doesn’t love you back, it’s crazy cause life really be like that sometimes, I’m glad rockstar captured that
Ngl, if I didn't know better, that would actually be a really genuine apology. Bro took all the blame and made no excuses. Too bad it's all bs.
There is something about Dutch that I'm sure. There is NO short answer about his personality nor his actions. Stop looking at Dutch as entirely bad or good person. Because your wrong in both ways. We can look at him as person who is trying to make the best of everything, but he is so blinded with his "truth" that over time he just keep doing wrong things. That cost him with losing everything he got including his sanity. If you beliving in something so deep and with passion, can you call that person that he mailnipulates the people? No! Micah is manipulator, Dutch is more blind then anything. And he has problems with his ego that's for sure.
About that situation. You have to know that Micah was with him and if this was part of Micah and Colm plan, that means Micah somehow convinced Dutch that Arthur is ok and that he probaly leave for one or another reason. Then was no reason to betray Arthur so soon in the story. Arthur was useful not to mention their good realtionship. And I think the first person who was start moving out of that relationship was Arthur not Dutch. Dutch left Arthur behind at King's son mission. Not before. He probably evem didn't know how wrong he is because suddenly he used Micah for planing. Arthur had his doubts about Dutch way before. If not sooner, certainly when Dutch killed Angelo Bronte.
So we can conclude at the end. In RDR1 we knew about him almost nothing. Now we know maybe half of his personality after RDR2. There is still a lot things about Dutch that is really confusing. We are far from knowing his entire peronality if we ever get that far.
Dutch isn't dumb he knew Micha was trying to get into his head (confirmed in chapter 3 camp dialog) but he went along with it anyway because Micha was the biggest yes man of the gang. Also Dutch left Arthur and John (basically his adopted sons) for dead and shot an innocent girl in the head in blackwater. Dutch might have some redeemable moments but overall he's a bad man.
This specific mission and a few other reasons, are why i believe Micah was a rat before guarma. Micah is the one that apparently hears this info from Pearson, and brings it to Dutch. Micah most likely convinced Dutch Arthur was "fine" when they didn't see him again.
Also in the beginning of the game Hosea mentioned that the ferry job in blackwater was specifically Micah's job, and that he convinced Dutch to go through with it. The Blackwater job is mentioned to be the beginning of the end for the gang all throughout the game.
And then the very next mission Sean get set up...
“Micah and I” shows how there are 2 people in charge and both feel “guilty” about not going back for Arthur. If you think about this, it clearly shows that Micah is considered a leader as he could’ve had the gang go back for him same as Dutch. Also shows how connected him and Micah are considering John, bill javier and the others probably would’ve went for Arthur if it came down to it and dutches choice of words probably would’ve been “we all feel like a fool for leaving you behind” or something that shows that it’s not just who’s in charge (Dutch) that’s making decisions.
“we went to meet you on the trail, weird how you never showed up.”
when it came down to Jack, Dutch held no hesitation to go looking for him, but when it came down to trying to find his right hand man, he was nowhere to be found.
Well that's how he manipulates people, obviously the grown man wanders off and no one bags an eye or dutch makes up an excuse to lure people in but when it comes to jack he's one of the hearts of the group if jack goes missing you can't just say oh well, that'll piss everyone off and leave dutch alone
I have not seen this encounter with Dutch, christ and I've played this game 5 times over
You really have to spend a lot of time lingering around camp to get a lot of the dialogues
I have played it like 10 times and I have never heard this before.
@BenDover-xl7bz I haven’t reached 100% yet on any of them. Ten is twice as much as the person that commented. I didn’t act like anything.
@BenDover-xl7bz 😂 ok fella whatever you say.
Dutch didn't realize until they left Colm that Arthur was gone
You guys are acting as if Dutch manipulated Arthur, but let's be real, Arthur frequently leaves camp for weeks without returning, so it's only natural for Dutch to assume that Arthur went off after the meeting with the O'Driscolls.
They agreed to meet back at the crossroads after the meeting. Arthur wouldn’t have just went off doing other stuff before meeting back up. As soon as he didn’t show up after the meeting they should have known shit went sour and sent out all men looking and tracking for him. That’s what the gang does every time someone is taken. Arthur went & rescued multiple members before this happened. They just went on like they didn’t care. It was all super fucced
@@JIIGYif arthur never returned...
@@JIIGY I mean they did mark to meet up but who is to say Arthur would listen? He could have seen a money opportunity for the gang when going down the mountain and went to take it. There's actually many possibilities of why Arthur could've not gone back to the meeting spot.
When Arthur is escaping from them and whispers to his horse "get me home"😢
I've never wanted to shoot a character in a game that bad before
At that point, Dutch was truthful. After that....
Honestly, people try and make this out to be an example of Dutch trying to get rid of Arthur or whatever but honestly? I think he was being genuine here, at this point in the story he has no reason to want to grt rid of Arthur, not even a made up one. I think it was a mistake. Plus people being like "he didnt go after Arthur!" He barely knew what happened or where they took him
He was probably so puzzled by the meeting with Colm that he didn't even realize Arthur didn't meet back up with him. It's also possible that he questioned Arthur's absence, and Micah dismissed it as Arthur wandering off or heading back to camp without them.
Agreed
@@GANONdork123 exactly!! Thank you! Like, its so much more likely that Dutch was like "Hey, wheres Arthur? He said he'll meet us here?" And Micah goes "Ah dont worry about that cowpoke, hes probably off drawing a flower or somethin again boss"
It’s crazy to see how Micah first mission at camp is getting Arthur captured and right after is getting Sean killed
The mission when Sean is killed is a Bill mission.
I meant with Micah in it
The mission where sean dies is the mission AFTER this one
When your younger brother lies about the calamities he did:
Don't beleive that for a second I think they served arthur up as a truce killing but he escaped
I love how we all played this game the first time and we’re under Dutch’s illusion for so long but now you can replay the game and see things you didn’t see the first time with enlightened eyes. Cause let’s be honest so many of us believed in Dutch til nearly the very end even if we felt some type of way. It’s like you’re experiencing the story differently every time you play because you realize more things that they hid in little cutscenes or interactions. Genius story telling by rockstar
That's why you always have a buddy with you when sniping
Authur Morgan - " i used to be the prize pony , now i am the workhorse. "
"You're a good man, Arthur Escuella."
To be fair, my Arthur tends to be randomly gone for days just picking flowers, hunting small game or going fishing.
So Dutch reasoning he's off on another trip didn't raise any flags for me.
"I gave you all I had"
Dutch Chpt 6 be like: “Why are you still alive!” 😢
I think Dutch really went south after that bash on the head. His change in character really takes a quick turn for the worse afterwards. Dude got a TBI for sure
“Secret camp encounter”
It’s literally the first thing that happens when you wake up
"Micah and I feel the same way"
Micah: "uhh what now?"
basically dutch: “that’s so… bizarre!!🤔🤔🤔🤗🤭😅😅”
In the lore a lot of gamg members did this, you get snippets of it when after a week they send someone to get you
Micah got in Dutch’s head telling him Arthur fine
He was already showing what type of "friend" he was. Too bad Arthur didn't realize sooner.
thats when i knew dutch really didnt care. i cried so much for arthur
Dutch was illogical in that mission to leave his son Arthur back there without help
Dutch was slowly going crazy during all this.. i believe he went full crazy after the trolley robbery in Saint Denise
Dutch: im sorry 🤥
also dutch: *leaves dying Arthur in the oil factory*
So much for loyalty.
I thought they said to each other: "he probably went on a side quests as he often does after a main guest mission. Might not be back for days."