Welcome back after the break 😊 What do you think about the strange case of Kris and Lisanne? Murder or accident? Please don't forget to stay respectful as always!
The photos may be out of order. Look at image 505. The full image, not the crop. Her hands are tied. She is in a walled area. There are dead animals on the ground. There is a human corpse in the lower right corner.
@@benjamindover4337 If you see a low resolution version of this photo, I can understand that people see all sorts of horrible things in it, but if you can find a better resolution of it it’s actually quite benign. Kris is leaning forward because there is foliage above her head. She actually has her hand up by her face, either mock saluting Lisanne or shielding her eyes from the sun. She is actually sticking her tongue out at Lisanne. She’s obviously in high spirits and there is nothing amiss at this time. There is high contrast in the foliage because the sun was high, just after 1 pm and is breaking through the dense foliage in small areas, it makes all sorts of things ‘appear’ in the riotous foliage. It’s also not a cave as many people have suggested...the trail curves sharply and goes down suddenly just past where she is standing. There are a few videos from other people who have hiked here that show this.
Normally I'm a logical person and would be interested in discussing the cold hard facts of a case like this; not to say that these things don't effect me on an emotional level, I just feel like that is how I can contribute. I have to say, though... this particular story has hit me harder than most. I've been following it for months now; some days I'll spend hours watching people present 'new facts' or evidence and in the end I still can't figure out what happened to them. I don't know if they got lost in the jungle or were abducted; there are good arguments on both sides. I don't know which one is worse either... being lost and increasingly hopeless, alone in the wilderness or being ambushed by a bunch of strangers, used and abused for your body and then discarded like trash. (I know most people would say the second is worse, but putting myself in their shoes both seem like an absolute nightmare). All this time researching it has really taken an emotional toll on me; though I originally wanted to 'solve the mystery' what ended up happening was Kris and Lisanne became very real and humanized in my mind. As I learned more about their personalities and lives; how Lisanne was shy, tall, intelligent, kind and awkward, becoming friends with Kris who was outgoing, adventure-seeking and full of positive energy, pushing Lisanne to come out of her defensive shell. A classic case of a yin and yang, red and blue personality types coming together to bring out the best in each other. (they were even wearing those colors on their last days on earth). It became a little too much for me; I couldn't sleep so I had a few drinks, then I read Lisanne was actually born on the exact same day as me. I'm bawling my eyes out rn.
The calls themselves are also suspicious since they occur at nearly the same two times every day. Almost no one would maintain such a rigorous call schedule for days in a survival situation.
I dont see it. There were 7 attemts in all, and they were evenly spread out, expect the first call. If you look at 2. april KK makes only 1 attemt, while LF makes 3(!). It is as they already here are separated, and make the calls independently of each other. Maybe they were very low on batteri, so they did not have many attemts to make. Better save the battery untill there IS a signal. I usually always go for the most obvious and logic explaination. I am that lazy! I am not saying I able to solve this case, no way! But there are some things that come to my mind: The elements were against them: No preparation for a lengthy stay, no map, no compass, no proper chlothings, no shelter, no food, no clean water, no knowledge, no experience, lack of sleep, exhaustion, clima, injury...... Dont you think that these are contributing factors to why they died? They probably stayed alive for +7 days and in an area where nobody could hear them. I know that there is a lot to support the theory that they were captured and killed, still it makes no sense: They had decided to go on this trail they day before, that makes no room for an ambush, where everyting is organised and planned beforehand. And this "ambush" has to take place in broad daylight, with multiple witness around. And they were kept alive for many days and where? If they were hidden in plain sight, somebody would have seen/heard them, and willing to give information for a 30.000 $ reward. Nobody is that loyal to anybody! They had nothing of value on them, and even the 83 $ they did have was intact in the sack, as well as phones and camera. Criminals are dumb, but not that dumb. They would have kept ANYTHING even if it had just a token of value! And why does these murders not take place on a regular basis? These trails are swarming with foreign girls all the time. And some say that guide F had something to do with it. I doubt it. He had plenty of better opportunitis in the past if that is what he wanted. Besides, he is an elderly man aginst 2 young fit girls. It makes no sense either! What was the purpose of having money on them? I speculate it was for buying food, snacks whatever on their way where it was possible and for a taxi back home again! They probably decided to divert from the main trail, crossing a sign saying "Go no further" and went on a remote/isolated path they came accross that we must assume led nowhere. But they did not know that! (Maybe they had hoped to get to a view point much higher and then follow a path they belived would exist to the nearest town where they could get a taxi back home.) The problem was that they went away from civilisation and deeper into the jungle/wildernes, while beliving they were going right direction. They got stocked! Now they were disorientated and isolated, so what did they do, they called 112 but there was no signal! It does not get scarier than that. But I must admit that I am not ruling out faul play either. I have an open mind and of course there are things in this case that look (too) strange to be explaned using the "lost" theory" only.
@@perhentzepetersen9310 Since this is not solved and many things aren't easily explained by either theory, you could be right. I too go with the simplest and logical explanation though but that points to murder. I mentioned the phones use because Kris's phone is used at 9:33, 10:16, 10:50, 10:26, 10:51 as well as 13:42, 13:3, 13:37 again and 11:56. This persisted until the last day. Since this is only strange and we disagree on it we can ignore the phone calls. Some of your points are contradictory. You mention that they survived in a place where they could not be seen or heard and yet a murder would have not been able to hide them in a place where they could not be seen or heard. These trails are used by cartel, natives and even cult members. They are used frequently by locals as well. Some of these people, such as the trail guide to suspiciously found everything, owns land near where they disappeared. This brings us to the state of the body. The bleached bones contained high levels of phosphorus consistent with lime used by local cartels and could not come from he soil. The bones did not show any abrasions which would have resulted from animals or flowing in a turbulent river. Also, the rolled up skin was found so well preserved that maggots had only begun to infest it. This is why forensic anthropologists stated it would have to have been manipulated. They also never found larger body fragments. The fragments they did find were small and located after an area had already been searched with dogs as though they were placed at a later date. The state of the electronics also show someone must have found them after April 11. Since all other there electronics were in the same bag and did not stay in the jungle or the river for 2 months. So someone would have had to find the bodies, pack up the belongings and keep them for 2 months before setting the in that field. If they had innocently found the two girls already dead, then this person would have sought the 30K reward. By turning in this evidence, both fragments of the body and electronics, attention on the case quickly waned. Not only have the parents hiked this trail but you can read experiences from other foreigners living in Boquette. It has a 20% immigrant population and many have sense tried to see how one could get lost and they never had any issues. The go no further sign was added after this incident along with a memorial for the two girls. Ones that found it difficult mention they found farmers willing to give directions. The first remains were found only 9 Km from the end of the tourist trail. That is only a 2-3 hour hike back the same direction they came. Still, as I mentioned some of it doesn't make sense either way. The book bag could have been returned with out the phones and just one water damaged phone to stop media attention. The photos at night don't make sense for either theory. Only on one night, 8 days after getting last, they take an average of one photo every other min for 3 hrs of the same location. There aren't any good explanations for why they or someone with their belongings would do this.
@@binfernus Thanks, good article! You are well informed, I give you that Yes, some of my statements may be contradictive, I give you that also. I wrote it while my thoughts "run away" so to speak, but it is very frustrating: 2+2 does not equal 4, no matter how hard I try. A lot of your writings actually make sense. And I understand fully why you go along with the "murder" theory. It does have ground to support it, but I think some things also support the "lost" theory. I jump right to one thing that I dont understand: What may be the point with the nightfotos, where one girls actually is on it? And those strange "papersigns" laying on the rocks? Why go through the trouble making them in the middle of a thunderstorn and heavy rainfall. Apropos rainfall, her hair is actually dry! She was either asmathic or sick, because according to the houslady where they were staying, she coughed a lot. Not the best way to start a hike where you are to spend many days/nights out in the open without food nor shelter, unless you are either captured and later killed after many days, or they were lost which could explain why she was there......
@@perhentzepetersen9310 yes, I agree, I think they got themselves into trouble by not being prepared and misunderstanding the trail instructions, and then something happened or a few things went wrong. I think they thought the trail was a loop and they were heading back even though they were heading further into the jungle. By the way, it is my understanding that the sign was not there when they hiked. It was added later, probably because they did believe that confusion over the trail contributed. That side of the trail (northern) is also not well maintained and the river crossing conditions can change during the wet season and the trail can get washed out. The search parties also didn’t realise that they could have hiked that far, because eye witnesses said they hiked later in the day...so they concentrated the search around the mirador. Even though guide F searched to the paddock on the 3rd...unfortunately they were probably past this point. Supposedly it can be very windy around the cable bridges, and as they were not dressed for conditions other than a warm day, they probably sought out shelter here, but unfortunately were probably well hidden from searchers too...especially as they became weak or were injured.
My theory about the call schedule, was that at least initially, they tried to get to higher ground to call, to get the best signal. They would have to wait until sunrise, and wouldn’t want to get caught out before sunset. But I think later they were injured or too weak, and at this point they just did signal checks. Their batteries were low, both only half way charged on the first day, so they were trying to be smart about their phone usage. Lisanne’s phone did go flat on the 5th I believe.
The first and foremost indication leading towards a crime for me is the founding of the rucksack (its condition and items) and the distance different remains were found from each other towards the last known location of the girls. I don't focus on Image 509, because it could have been accidently deleted by the police. But that a bag is intact with its contains after months in a rainforest and the kind of items in it, let the accident in the wilds theory for me vanish immediately. The phone logs - very fishy! Only 2 emergency call attempts on the first day, 15 minutes apart. And after that 14 hours of nothing. No SMS attempt. No local notes on the phone, no more pictures from the camera for 7 days. All that brings me to the conclusion that those items have been in the hands of someone else, after the first legit emergency calls. I wish all the best and strength to the Froons and the Kremers. One day the murderers will face justice, by court or by god.
@equizolls Picture 509 seems to be deleted by external access. So we have 3 options. a) The people who had the camera after the girls, gained access to the memory card and deleted the picture. b) The police accidently deleted the picture while analyzing for possible evidence. c) Epstein didn't kill himself!
Another possibility for 509 is that Lisanne dropped the camera. Supposedly a ‘photo’ can be taken but the shock to the camera prevents data from being written, so it is registered as a photo, but no data is written. Nobody speaks either about reports that there was supposedly two 508 photos, one before 507 and one in the correct place after 507. Seems likely that there was some sort of glitch. The camera being dropped seems likely to me, as they didn’t take any more photos until the 8th. Maybe because the camera wasn’t working initially after that, or did one of them fall while they were taking this group of photos. Did Kris fall off the rock and Lisanne dropped the camera in shock, or did Lisanne drop the camera, lunge to catch it and fall? The backpack wasn’t found in such pristine condition as is made out, and the GPS coordinates paint the picture that their remains and the bag were carried by the flooded river from the cable bridges. The emergency calls do confuse me... that they could remain so calm and logical, but I think they really did believe they would be rescued.
Hi Mara, You've done a really good job here... There is one additional point I would make..... A lot has been said about the fact that calls to the 'Emergency Services' were made from the girls' phones... What I would mention is who the girls DID NOT call (assuming it was the girls who made the calls).... It seems to me that if the girls got lost in the jungle, then they would no doubt have also tried to call their parents and other people they knew... Maybe also the Dutch boys they had been with recently, who might have been in the best position to offer practical help locally... I heard on other vids about the case that the girls had the habit of texting their parents every day prior to their disappearance... ... I find it very unlikely, to put it mildly, that they would not have tried to contact their parents and other people they know... Also, the fact that the girls stopped photographing each other late in the afternoon of the hike is highly suspicious... It is another clear break with their usual habit, and needs to be explained.... My feeling is that the girls were abducted, probably at some point in the afternoon the day they disappeared, and taken to an unknown location.... i strongly suspect that the calls were made by the abductors, knowing that the calls would not get through in order to create the impression that the girls were somehow lost in the jungle, desperately seeking help, whereas in reality, I suspect they were captive, or even dead.... What do you think? In any case, I think your analysis is really good... I also heard from other vids that four people connected to the case died in mysterious circumstances within a year and a half or so after the girls' disappearance, including the taxi driver who took Kris and Lisanne to the start of the hike... Sounds a bit like people being silenced who might know too much... Can you, or anyone shed any light on this?
Thanks a lot for your analysis. You forgot to mention that Lassane foot was found by the tour guide named Feliciano. I am 100% sure that the two poor girls were murdered and the tour guide is more likely involved in this mysterious case.
That’s quite a jump in logic, he found the bones so he’s involved. It is in a dangerous, inaccessible part of the trail/jungle. He’s a guide, who probably knows the area well. When they found the backpack he probably realised that a likely scenario was the flooded river brought it down from the cable bridges. The GPS coordinates of the remains found and the backpack paint the picture that the river carried them down. The remains were found in a bend of the river...I believe from basic understanding of sedimentation and how a river forms that snaking form that that is a logical place for their remains to settle.
@@sara_387 I'm of the "they got lost" camp, personally, but it is a bit odd how often the tour guide shows up in this story. He was in contact with them before their hike, he was in their bedroom the day after, he helped find the foot, etc... Dude really got involved in a sus kinda way!
Bottom line the tour guide was in on it as well as the taxi driver who mysteriously ends up dead a year later, my theory is that The tour guide met the girls on the path and the tour guide made them feel comfortable at first so they took a pic of him or of him and the girls together like a selfie, then as they walked other men that the tour guide new came onto the trail and thats when the girls were takin by force to God knows were, they were prob raped and left alive for a while, All the finger prints were of all the men who did the tour guides dirty work, As a plan the tour guide made the 911 calls himself to make it look like the girls were ok and just needing help, also Once the search was on thats when he had the girls killed and had there bag along with bras and phones placed somewhere as to be found, and the tour guide is the one who took the night time pics on the 8th of April to make it look like the girls were still ok or alive atleast but don't u think if the girls were ok that night that they would of took photos or even a video with there phone incase something happened or incase something was a emergency, not one night time pic had the girls on it, except for chrises hair, the tour guide took that pic after chris was either dead or tied up, why wouldn't the girls have took pics of each other at night it makes no sense, they were not even there, And then the tour guide made twigs with those red bags on it and took a pic to make it seem like the girls were doing a sos, and then magically some bones are found and bleached, And the cops were in on it or else they would of tracked down the finger prints, And they deleted the photo so the tourist buisness and economy would not be affected because if that pic that was deleted showed the tour guide with the girls then game over, the whole thing is nuts but anyone with a brain can figure this one out, also the local people were def in on it, maybe they didn't plan it but they covered it up and helped the tour guide get away with it, case closed.
Why would he do this? He has alot of customers who all say he is great. One bad review which seems fake... Why would he ruin his great tour career for these two girls? You cant just say it was F and he is a murderer who planned it all, you need more proof. You could be ruining his life. He has helped from the start and has been with the parents, he would have to be one evil guy and a good actor. im not saying he is totally innoccent, its easy to say hes guilty from behind a keyboard... There is some odd things he has done, but it doesnt mean he is guilty. Need more proof. He is still working as a guide to this day and people are still leaving him great reviews and getting some good pics with him....
I figure the same thing. The taxi driver called friends to tell them the 2 foreign girls were alone in the jungle. The police were questioning the taxi driver and so they got rid of him. The girls only went for a day hike and it makes no sense they would take off all their clothes to walk around the jungle. The tour guide went through the girls room the next day and he was to involved guiding the investigation.
I think the tour guide did it. Look at his eyes in UA-cam video “Dutch reporter in Panama to interview tour giide F” his pupils wide open at one moment. That’s because his brain recall the bad memory and picture it at the back of his eyes. Look at the UA-cam video murder or accident ? from Peaked Interest. Look at 51:41 when a review about the tour guide is read. Only couples or Big group of men are positive. One woman alone was sexual attacked by him. And he told her to chop of her legs with his machete. And he has a preference for Northern European ladies. And look at a interview with him in video “Interview with guide F”. When the parents went back to Holland at 1:41. He is smiling at the reporter. Why you smile at such horrific case? Because she is blond too! And he want to do to her what he did to the girls. Also look at the video “Gone in a flash” from Truly Criminal at 5:24 at the guide “F”. He is standing at the hiking trail next to the mother from one of the girls. He walks a little bit away and makes a small bow. What if you where not the murderer? Then you stand next to her to support her. Showing your face in the camera. Nothing to hide. He did not! His brains again recalls the bad moments he did. Thats why his body makes a move that wasn’t necessary.
YES. Feliciano Gonzalez did not murder the girls but he did dispose of them. He did not have the guts to kill them - but he did let them die. I'm guessing he found them on the second day after they got lost (probably even on the first day), lured them into an area where he knew they could NOT be found, and waited. OR (far more likely),... he could have simply found them when they were still okay at the top of the trail and promised to show them some interesting sights on the "other side," At that point, he would have taken the camera from Lisanne. (The fact that there are NO photos after they got "lost" is extremely significant. THAT is the key piece of circumstantial evidence. In addition, if Feliciano took the camera, he would have taken the phones as well.) He eventually walked so far ahead of them that they could not possibly keep up. A person can walk a great distance in three hours. He could have beguiled them with food and water so that they would trust him. Would they have dared to venture into a totally unknown area without a guide? Would they have been audacious or foolhardy enough to try such a thing? I don’t think so. I think they were enticed. After three hours of additional hiking (into unknown areas), when they were simply too weak to carry on (and he knew it).they stopped to rest. He also knew they could not get a signal for their phones. Did he tie them both up? It’s possible and it’s likely. That would have given him total control. After Kris died on the fifth or sixth day, he could have taken her to his house, leaving Lisanne behind. Lisanne was totally helpless by then. He probably came back multiple times to check on her. The intact backpack and the neatly folded jean shorts found much later show that he was remorseful afterward, like the coward that he is. HOWEVER, he could have simply abducted them on the very first day. If that's what happened, they would have fought back and easily overpowered him unless he was armed or had accomplices. It's more likely that he beguiled them into following him into those unknown areas of the jungle. The night photos are meaningless - Lisanne might have taken those photos while in a state of shock and/or a hallucinatory state of mind, like a drowning girl flapping at the water in the middle of the ocean, all in vain. She might have also taken them in an attempt to get a picture of Feliciano, assuming she heard him creeping about in the pitch-black darkness, waiting for her to die. That is far more likely, if in fact, she had the camera with her. HOWEVER, Feliciano probably took those photos. What Feliciano did with the bodies only he knows. It’s possible he had accomplices. How did he drag the bodies to his coffee plantation? That would have been easy. It was only half a mile away. In any case, REGARDLESS of the details of how all of this transpired, there is NO WAY their deaths were the result of an "accident."
Thank you for making this factual video! Lisanne's left foot was not cut or severed or torn apart, the foot just let go of her leg within the shoe, probably a chemical like a type of bone phosphate of LIME (BPL)... which would explain why Kris's recovered bones were " BLEACHED" and why there were no marks on the bones... no cuts or abrasions like her body literally fell apart!
I think there's only three possibilities when it comes to what happened to the girls. We know they reached a certain point of the trail on the other side of the mountain, which is where the last normal photo was taken. From there, they could have wandered off of the trail for some reason at which point they could not find their way back and were lost. They could have kept walking down the trail until it got dark at which point they tried crossing the monkey-bridge and drowned. They could have been assaulted by someone. The first option would show some poor judgment but not totally unreasonable; there may have been something they saw that interested them away from the trail or maybe they were looking for a landmark they read about online such as the lost waterfall. It's possible they ventured off, say 500m-1km off the trail looking for something, got turned around and could not find the trail again. The second options, them heading in one direction for 6+ hours and not turning around even once the sun started setting seems extremely unlikely as no rational human being would voluntarily do this without a pretty good reason. They weren't dressed for a long hike... in fact, they weren't dressed for any sort of hike in that area at all which shows me that they weren't exactly being totally responsible or knew what they were getting into. The third option is that at some point after the last photo was taken, approximately two hours of hiking presumably, they were attacked. They were either raped and killed on the road or abducted and taken to a different location where the same thing occurred. One of the assailants took the phones and camera, deleted the picture, made daily calls to 911 in the jungle to make it seem like the girls were lost and then on one day randomly decided to snap 90 photos in the dark while it was raining. The criminals also bleached Kris's bones and at some point scattered the remains throughout the jungle and planted the backpack with the phones and camera for police to find so that they will assume the girls had just gone missing and no fowl-play was involved. This last theory seems kind of wild when you say it all in one sentence... just so many moving pieces and unnecessary troubles the criminals went thru which were actually more likely to get them caught. Why would they want anyone finding the girls bodies when presumably they could have just buried them somewhere no one would find them? Why would they return the phones and camera at all? It all sounds irrational, though so much evidence points towards tampering with evidence. Maybe an attack really did happen and there was more evidence which police seized and deleted once it was decided that it would negatively impact the tourist industry? Maybe the police knew who did it and since they couldn't formally arrest him decided to take care of it their own way by murdering him. The taxi driver that dropped the girls off that day was found dead, supposedly 'drowning' in a shallow puddle. Hmm...
If the killer was the son of a politician or a sheriff or any local authority I have no doubt the crime could have been covered up by the police. In fact it looks a lot like a police cover up
Accidente = impossible. Nunca pasó que dos cuerpos se cayeran a un río que no llega ni a laa rodillas y los cuerpos se desintegren.. y que la mochila con laa cosas adentro se mantengan intactas.. es lo más estupido de creer.. lo que pasa que las autoridades no querían afectar el turismo.
They’re two young, beautiful women who sadly seem like they got attacked by a gang. I bet they weren’t even very old. They might have been the ones using the camera, but I think it was left with the girls and they couldn’t use it (bound hands?). They may have been left dead/dying and one girl wasn’t dead. She took the pictures using whatever strength she could (maybe it was behind her and she blindly took pictures. Then they returned and collected the cameras, phones, and tragically the bodies. They placed the bag and shorts on the river. I don’t want to even speculate what they did to the bodies. Maybe they even took organs. Such a tragic story!
There was a photo of (it’s claimed to be) the two young women, swimming with two men. The shot was taken at a distance and is very grainy to say the least. I’ve seen it on the internet, but I haven’t been able to get a definitive response as to when it was taken, or if it is even them. Anyone else have any input?
I've read about it, too. In the description box you can find my sources. In the Koude Kaas blog (Part 1) the author also talks about this photo. Feel free to check it out, there are just so many infos listed there it would have been almost impossible to include them all in just one video. Hope this helps you a bit :)
I've read about that pic that you are referring to and those two men were solid alibis by various people that they were nowhere near the two women at the time.
I don’t believe it’s Lisanne and Kris in that photo. If you look back at their photos in Bocas del Toro their body language, especially Lisanne is very different in mixed company, almost shy and closed off...arms and legs crossed. The girl in the photo who is supposed to be Lisanne is uninhibited...with men that they supposedly only knew for a couple of days at most...no, not likely.
On UA-cam look up the video El Pianista video 1. This guy who hikes was curious about the story so he traveled to Panama to retrace their steps. He made 3 videos of hiking through those jungles. He was totally prepared but he got lost several times. He carried a GPS with 3 batteries. He was able to get back on the trails again. Interesting videos.
Dear Mrs Cuja XD , first...this is a very awesome Video...you did a great Job with it! Archivment to earn my Sub reached! haha ....about the case...i am following the Dissapearance of Kris and Lisanne since such a long Time...and after a lot of thinking...i came to the conclusion, that ...they both went hiking on that day to the top of the pianista where they made the fotos...then, they met either the Tourguide alone or him with some more Men...The Men didn t wanted to get any attention from other Hikers, so they played nice and told the Girls maybe that they wanted to show them a bit more into the Woods...then they kidnapped the Girls. They kept them maybe in the Tourguide s Home or another Place...i think they killed Kris in that Night...but kept Lisanne for longer...the Tourguide and some other Men (maybe the same that kidnapped the Girls) helped to search for them...making sure the Police and searchteam would not get any hint to were the girls really are...who know smaybe they were brought with a vehicle to another village...anyway...Tourguide kept a keen eye on the Policework...i m sure they did something to Kris Body to make it decompose faster...that s why in the end they had her clean bones...are there Anthills in Panama?they could have tossed her into one...i m afraid Lisanne was kept alive and endured rape or maybe abuse... when u said that about her shatterd foot it made my stomach turn around... so..they kept Lisanne...killed her a while later...Tourguide went to the decomposing Body of Lisanne...maybe wanted to pick her shoe and accidently took the whole foot with...he planted it i the Jungle where he knew they would search next...he "surprisingly" found the foot...and later, he arranged, that the backpack was "been found" by a local woman...he had the backpack all the time in his possesion...that s why it is clean and not muddy or wet...he and his local buddys were going through the backpack together...touching the bras...touching the camera...looking at the pictures...someone found picture 509...there might be someone of the men visible when Lisanne took Pic s of Kris...so... he took the camera to a computer...deleted the picture 509... later, the prepaired backpack would be given to the police....Tourguide and the Villagers got upset because they didn t got the Reward... did i forgot something...i m sorry for my bad explenation XD English isn t my native language...i am German lol... i heard, that the Finka of the Tourguide was not really looked at by the Police...so...maybe the bigger rest of the remains of Chris and Lisanne are somewhere to be found on his Land.. Police of Panama surely would not want to investigate into that because they fear damage because of the Tourists... sorry that was a long post...but...that s my theory ^^# the story of just got lost in the woods ...no...the thing that made this szenario impossible for me was the finding of the backpack in almost new condition...someone had that backpack and waited to give it out...
I came to the same conclusion. The taxi driver told his friends the 2 foreign girls were alone in the jungle. The tour guide ransacked the girls room the following day and he was very involved to guide the investigation. The taxi driver knew to much so he had to go.
Hard to say since not much is known about his personality structure. There is -as far as I am aware- no psych. Evaluation of him that had been made public.
I wonder if they took those pictures because they could hear the helicopters during the day and hoped the flash might grab someone’s attention if they happened to be passing later that night. After looking closer at the photos and brightening them you can tell that most of them were shot facing upwards because the tree tops are in shot. The markers on the rocks are probably another sign to anyone walking around as to their whereabouts🤷♀️
May I ask is it true please? - They left the path and got lost, tried to call for help then turned the phones off to try to conserve battery, occasionally turning them on when they thought they might have service. When they heard people searching for them they tried to signal with their camera flashes but failed (always carry a whistle, /out/) then as their strength was failing one of them fell off a cliff and was injured seriously which prompted the other to desperately try to call for help again before abandoning her. Then the one who fell died then the one who didn't fall died. They decomposed quickly in the hot, wet jungle and their remains were scattered by scavenging wildlife until they got small enough to be washed downstream.
I've heard about this case about 1 year ago...many people here in Brazil use to talk about on UA-cam. In my opinion,it wasn't an accident. Two young girls,this is so sad...😞
This would explain the condition of the human remains found of Kris and Lisanne way better than the accidental fall theory of prosecutor Pitti. I don't know who did it but I also struggle to believe that no third party was involved.
The photos don't make sense regardless of the theory. It averaged about a photo a minute for two hours but all are in the same location. There isn't much reason for the girls or a murderer to take them.
I read somewhere that a dog they knew walked with them upon the trail and returned alone. But you would not cross a monkey bridge with a dog! So i do not think they crossed the bridge. The cut of her food was straight and not ripped off. So it was chopped off! I think the tour guide did it. Look at his eyes in UA-cam video “Dutch reporter in Panama to interview tour giide F” his pupils wide open at one moment. That’s because his brain recall the bad memory and picture it at the back of his eyes. Look at the UA-cam video murder or accident ? from Peaked Interest. Look at 51:41 when a review about the tour guide is read. Only couples or Big group of men are positive. One woman alone was sexual attacked by him. And he told her to chop of her legs with his machete. And he has a preference for Northern European ladies. And look at a interview with him in video “Interview with guide F”. When the parents went back to Holland at 1:41. He is smiling at the reporter. Why you smile at such horrific case? Because she is blond too! And he want to do to her what he did to the girls. Also look at the video “Gone in a flash” from Truly Criminal at 5:24 at the guide “F”. He is standing at the hiking trail next to the mother from one of the girls. He walks a little bit away and makes a small bow. What if you where not the murderer? Then you stand next to her to support her. Showing your face in the camera. Nothing to hide. He did not! His brains again recalls the bad moments he did. Thats why his body makes a move that wasn’t necessary.
@@sgtpepperbandmember5295 I was talking about you. Shaming me for not knowing the 'facts' of the case? When there's so much hearsay and speculation on this case? You need to slow your roll.
Good job. Feliciano Gonzalez did not murder the girls but he did dispose of them. He did not have the guts to kill them - but he did let them die. I'm guessing he found them on the second day after they got lost (probably even on the first day), lured them into an area where he knew they could NOT be found, and waited. OR (far more likely),... he could have simply found them when they were still okay at the top of the trail and promised to show them some interesting sights on the "other side," At that point, he would have taken the camera from Lisanne. (The fact that there are NO photos after they got "lost" is extremely significant. THAT is the key piece of circumstantial evidence. In addition, if Feliciano took the camera, he would have taken the phones as well.) He eventually walked so far ahead of them that they could not possibly keep up. A person can walk a great distance in three hours. He could have beguiled them with food and water so that they would trust him. Would they have dared to venture into a totally unknown area without a guide? Would they have been audacious or foolhardy enough to try such a thing? I don’t think so. I think they were enticed. After three hours of additional hiking (into unknown areas), when they were simply too weak to carry on (and he knew it).they stopped to rest. He also knew they could not get a signal for their phones. Did he tie them both up? It’s possible and it’s likely. That would have given him total control. After Kris died on the fifth or sixth day, he could have taken her to his house, leaving Lisanne behind. Lisanne was totally helpless by then. He probably came back multiple times to check on her. The intact backpack and the neatly folded jean shorts found much later show that he was remorseful afterward, like the coward that he is. HOWEVER, he could have simply abducted them on the very first day. If that's what happened, they would have fought back and easily overpowered him unless he was armed or had accomplices. It's more likely that he beguiled them into following him into those unknown areas of the jungle. The night photos are meaningless - Lisanne might have taken those photos while in a state of shock and/or a hallucinatory state of mind, like a drowning girl flapping at the water in the middle of the ocean, all in vain. She might have also taken them in an attempt to get a picture of Feliciano, assuming she heard him creeping about in the pitch-black darkness, waiting for her to die. That is far more likely, if in fact, she had the camera with her. HOWEVER, Feliciano probably took those photos. What Feliciano did with the bodies only he knows. It’s possible he had accomplices. How did he drag the bodies to his coffee plantation? That would have been easy. It was only half a mile away. In any case, REGARDLESS of the details of how all of this transpired, there is NO WAY their deaths were the result of an "accident."
I think the tour guide let himself into their room to either plant or remove evidence. I think he made up the part about them making an appointment with him.
The tour guide's card was found in their room, but after he was in it probably also for at least some time on his own as Eileen was on the phone and maybe did not pay too much attention to what he was doing. His house in the jungle (or the house of his son who lived close to Alte Boquete where some of the remains where found) was never searched by authorities so we don't know if he had anything connecting him to the crime or if he removed anything from their room. But why would they place his card clearly visible on the bed before leaving? I think he staged it to make it seem as if they had an appointment. But this is just speculation...at the very least the tour guide (and maybe also his son) are suspicious after all
Do you know if he was interrogated? It seems like everyone just accept what he said. Where did they plan to go with him? To the same pianistsa treil? So many questions.
If the CIA or FBI interrogated the tour guide for 1/2 hr, he would tell a different story. He obviously was involved and set them up. I wouldn't advise anybody to travel to central america, it's too dangerous.
Kris and Lisa contracted tick bite fever, and whilst hiking became feverish, and disorientated. They sought shelter in a cave, where they died from their sickness. Dogs scattered their bones, some of the bones were bleached by bat faeces, after dogs had eaten the meat from them. This explains the bleaching.
Great theory! But how does that explain the backpack and little inconsistencies like that? This isn’t me attacking you, it’s a really interesting theory, I just wanted to know if you thought of that
Good video Mara,,soory for my english...seen a lot of videos,,just few are well made, and you said things i didn´t know,,,i discovered this case few days ago, and since had nightmares..i feel so bad and in shock...tell me do you know something about apparently Kris and Lisa swiming with two local guys,,heard to something about they met to two duch boys...and something about in the taxi cab(who died a year after) there where two more guys .....i was sure that F (the guide)was involved ,,but not the killer. Still dont get how ducht investigator did not pressure more the locals, F..the school who rejected the girls,, the taxi cab...and all the corrupted panama investigator....and what happened with dactilar fingertrips on the camera???
Theory: When the girls reached the end of the trail the girls began to walk back. On the way back they encountered Feliciano Gonzalez and friends(maybe including his son and Plineo Montenegro). Feliciano started to molest them and threaten them with his machete. He then told them to march on along one of the trails. He menaced Lisanne with his machete and threatened to harm her if Kris ran away. He told Lisanne to take a couple photos of on the trail, so as to have evidence on the camera to show they had continued on the trail. He directed them which way to go until they reached his coffee farm. He took them to a cave or building near or on the farm. He and his friends raped the girls. He tied them up so they could not escape. He may have deliberately hobbled them by dropped something very heavy on their feet. With the girls imprisoned on his farm he returned to Boquete to visit the place where they were staying. The girls had either secreted the phones on their persons or they were left in a place where it was possible for them to gain access to them with care. Maybe Feliciano knew there would be no phone connection. Feliciano and friends returned repeatedly over a period of days to the farm to rape the girls. He gave them some food and water. Finally after a number of days when he had lost interest in them and when the hunt for the girls was picking up he ended up killing them both Kris first and Lisanne later. He planted evidence such as the bones and the backpack. The night time photos, I am not sure, I guess were most likely taken by the men and not the girls as I can't see why Lisanne would take a photo of the back of Kris's head. I would think that most of the remains of the girls are on or near his farm. This gives a clear idea of my train of thought. I am not claiming that every detail is exactly as I describe it, it is possible that some things happened slightly differently. I think that it is quite inappropriate to harass Mr. Feliciano Gonzalez. Someone is innocent until proven guilty. Having said, from all I know about the case he would be my prime suspect. It is unfortunate that DNA and fingerprints were not analysed. I daresay he selected/planted only the bones which did not have signs of foul play and that is why the other body parts haven't been discovered. Has anyone taken DNA samples from Feliciano or taken his fingerprints? If you can find his DNA or fingerprints where they aren't supposed to be according to his story then you have got something. For example, his DNA or fingerprints should not be on Kris's shorts as supposedly they were not found by him. I would suspect that his DNA is all over the items in their backpack much more so than if he just found it. It might be possible to find traces of his DNA on bones that were found by others. Where are these items of evidence now: the bones, the shoe, the backpack etc. ? His farm should be thoroughly searched and where appropriate tested for fingerprints and DNA, even the slightest evidence that could show that the girls had been on or near that farm would be crucial.
Very very well done! Lots of other vids on this case do not even mention Eileen or emphasize the "odd" over involvement of the tour guide (Feliciano). Thank you! 👌
Congrats on a very thoroughly researched video! However, the meeting with the local guide for April 2 was not necessarily to the Pianista trail. It was likely some other trail. Also, it is strange that the guide would want or receive, access to their room. Yes, I am interested in an update, once the new book comes out in April.
@@maracuja320 Yes, you are so right. And that is because the tour guide, to his credit, sounded the alarm and filed a report with the local police promptly. Very important because most police will not do anything until 48 hours after a report has been filed. So you have to start the clock ticking. However, consider that same person handed the backpack in to the police from the native lady in Alto Romero who discovered it. Consider that same person discovered and handed in the bone fragments and skin tissue in to the police. To avoid the taint of suspicion, he has indeed "changed his story" (on more than one issue). (I am not implying anything; just describing things matter of factually.)
Most definitely murder. If they fell in the river and died how the hell did their backpack get so far away and How was it dry?? how did they BOTH disappear and only some bare bones found, did they BOTH break their bones in a weird accident? What are the chances for that to happen?? Btw, great video, new information.
Seems like lots of smaller youtubers come out with 10 minute videos full of main stream media propaganda, and stuff that has never proven to be real. Really impressed with your video! Since i heard of this case a few months ago i've been fascinated with it, and hope we get answers in our lifetimes for the girls and their families. keep doing what you're doing excellent work, thanks from the USA! Regarding the guides story. Apparently he met them the day before april 1st and planned to take them on the hike on april 2nd, it's still very weird if this happened in the USA that guide would be questioned by the police for weeks straight. The day after the families offer a $30,000 reward he happens to find the bones in the woods very very strange...
Thanks! There will more true crime videos as soon as my examination phase is over and probably also an update in April/ May when the book will be released. The tour guide is suspicious and also the timing he found the bones is strange. Very strange...
Some corrections. Panama is not in S. America, there is no Mirador "platform". Blue can only be seen by the owners maybe 50m. The trail proper starts 2km away. How do I know? I have seen Blue and hiked the Pianista.
Маra Cuia - Marakuia, где то я видела похожую девушку на фото..ты случайно не родственница проводника, который должен был сопровождать Крис и Лесан ?!..У одного иностранного блогера освещающего эту тему была фотография на которой проводник и девушка, рядом, и так похожи, я подумала что все говорят о том что это мог сделать его сын, он занимается на ферме удобрениями, но никто не говорит о его дочери, если она у него есть, конечно..или племянница..все равно - одна семья - мафия, и все повязаны..так вот Mara kuia, ты очень похожа на родственницу горе - проводника..еще и ник такой, панамский..
Read further into it about certain family members of his, and the family member's friends. This topic can consume a youtuber for a week at least, I have a strong feeling about this. A few of the commenters on this thread have already accurately laid out a case for what happened. The ridiculous aspect is the interference of politics, local and national.
There is a new book about the case from Marja West, kindle version, Amazon." Lost in the jungle: the disappereance of.. The book based of facts,documents, IT-experts, forensic specialists.The book also explain the investigations of the bones etc..a great interesting book. All your doubts will be answered in that book
Nicely presented video so will watch your others sometime. I've been fascinated and haunted by this case for a good while now and have seen and read lots about it. So many things that don't make sense but I am as sure as I can be that the girls were murdered (either by sexual predator/s or for their organs to be trafficked). I also think that Kris and Lisanne were never even on that trail on that day and the photos have been manipulated to give that impression. It seems all to be an elaborate cover up to protect either the murderers or the Panamanian tourist industry (maybe both).
Yeah, I did read it completely...she did an amazing job and put in so much work in it. The blog is also listed in the sources since it's almost impossible to compile it all into just one video!
@@maracuja320 I've been following this case for a little over a year. I've never read Scarlets blog but heard it contains about everything you want to know. I'm glad you did this video since it actually consists of more detailed information and things I didn't know. Most people on YT just watch 1 or 2 videos then make a video that repeats the same exact info. I got really tired of hearing about the "host family dog" knowing it's the restaurant owners. And what family? It's 1 lady anyway. Did you see the video where someone puts all the night pictures together so you can tell they were all taken from the same exact spot just different perspectives? They just tilted the camera and pointed it in a little different direction.
I doubt it as well...too many strange things are going on here. Hope the families will get closure one day. Their laywer also doubts the accident theory by the way
If they weren't such attractive girls full of friendly social butterfly persona I would maybe believe they got hurt or lost but I absolutely believe they were targeted.
Is there a suitable candidate ravine or gorge within 1 hour of the trail summit? We know they called emergency services pretty early on (4pm ish), so this large cliff face has got to be nearby. Could we be looking at a series of accidents?
Possibly, that's what I believed for quite some time. But accidents don't bleach your bones and don't explain the findings of the remains...Looking at how the bones and the skin ball as well as their belongings were found later I don't think it was only due to an accident (or mulitiple accidents).
@@maracuja320 How do you think those guys have gotten hold of the new shorts photos? Are they in contact with relevant authorities or next of kin do you think? This cold case might be going somewhere...
hello my beautiful friend. i hope you had a awesome weekend. and i hope you have a terrific week. you are a terrific lady, and you make awesome videos. i am so glad i subscribed to your channel.
the guild's gone to their room so he could use their computer and delete the photo 509, the only problem would be how did he get the password, if that's the case all the calls after day one and night photos are red herring's to throw people into thinking the girls got lost for over a week in the jungle. I would say the got kidnapped and killed for organ trafficing. But I've gota say there's so many twists and turns and unanswered questions, you can't say for sure 100% what happened. the guild's and dead taxi drive will know!!
Killed by a jaguar. There are regional governmental conservation efforts to protect the jaguar. Any official autopsy would tend to block jaguar predation as a cause. One of the last photos taken has been forensically modified to help brighten the picture. You can see a large cat. Leaving this picture on the phone was a fortunate mistake on the part of the first agency to view the photos. Any clear pictures of a jaguar would have been erased, before it was released to the public. The girl was smart to create as much of a reflective surface as possible to temporarily flash-blind the jaguar. From the summit point, one of the young women saw how easy it would be to travel along the river all the way to the north coast, rather than turn around. The ginger girl, in one of the later pictures, was really uncomfortable with the idea of following the riverbank. A jaguar's main hunting area is the riverbank. Jaguars have one of the highest bite strengths of any animal. When a cat chews bone, it grinds it into a paste. The only bones left with mountain lion attacks tend to be the flesh they couldn’t get out of the footwear.
Locals said that most wild animals avoid humans in that jungle. Because other animals know better that humans are the most vicious and violent creatures on this planet.
Welcome back after the break 😊
What do you think about the strange case of Kris and Lisanne? Murder or accident?
Please don't forget to stay respectful as always!
Are you german ? 🧐
The photos may be out of order. Look at image 505. The full image, not the crop. Her hands are tied. She is in a walled area. There are dead animals on the ground. There is a human corpse in the lower right corner.
Beautiful women + lack of knowledge = taken advantage of. So sad :( May they Rest In Peace. 🌈 🦋
@@benjamindover4337 If you see a low resolution version of this photo, I can understand that people see all sorts of horrible things in it, but if you can find a better resolution of it it’s actually quite benign. Kris is leaning forward because there is foliage above her head. She actually has her hand up by her face, either mock saluting Lisanne or shielding her eyes from the sun. She is actually sticking her tongue out at Lisanne. She’s obviously in high spirits and there is nothing amiss at this time. There is high contrast in the foliage because the sun was high, just after 1 pm and is breaking through the dense foliage in small areas, it makes all sorts of things ‘appear’ in the riotous foliage. It’s also not a cave as many people have suggested...the trail curves sharply and goes down suddenly just past where she is standing. There are a few videos from other people who have hiked here that show this.
Normally I'm a logical person and would be interested in discussing the cold hard facts of a case like this; not to say that these things don't effect me on an emotional level, I just feel like that is how I can contribute. I have to say, though... this particular story has hit me harder than most. I've been following it for months now; some days I'll spend hours watching people present 'new facts' or evidence and in the end I still can't figure out what happened to them. I don't know if they got lost in the jungle or were abducted; there are good arguments on both sides. I don't know which one is worse either... being lost and increasingly hopeless, alone in the wilderness or being ambushed by a bunch of strangers, used and abused for your body and then discarded like trash. (I know most people would say the second is worse, but putting myself in their shoes both seem like an absolute nightmare). All this time researching it has really taken an emotional toll on me; though I originally wanted to 'solve the mystery' what ended up happening was Kris and Lisanne became very real and humanized in my mind. As I learned more about their personalities and lives; how Lisanne was shy, tall, intelligent, kind and awkward, becoming friends with Kris who was outgoing, adventure-seeking and full of positive energy, pushing Lisanne to come out of her defensive shell. A classic case of a yin and yang, red and blue personality types coming together to bring out the best in each other. (they were even wearing those colors on their last days on earth). It became a little too much for me; I couldn't sleep so I had a few drinks, then I read Lisanne was actually born on the exact same day as me. I'm bawling my eyes out rn.
My heart breaks just even a thought of them being lost in that thick jungle or what they had to endure during their last days...Beyond sad.
Physical 🧾 evidence shows Murder
The calls themselves are also suspicious since they occur at nearly the same two times every day. Almost no one would maintain such a rigorous call schedule for days in a survival situation.
I dont see it. There were 7 attemts in all, and they were evenly spread out, expect the first call. If you look at 2. april KK makes only 1 attemt, while LF makes 3(!). It is as they already here are separated, and make the calls independently of each other. Maybe they were very low on batteri, so they did not have many attemts to make. Better save the battery untill there IS a signal.
I usually always go for the most obvious and logic explaination. I am that lazy! I am not saying I able to solve this case, no way! But there are some things that come to my mind:
The elements were against them: No preparation for a lengthy stay, no map, no compass, no proper chlothings, no shelter, no food, no clean water, no knowledge, no experience, lack of sleep, exhaustion, clima, injury......
Dont you think that these are contributing factors to why they died? They probably stayed alive for +7 days and in an area where nobody could hear them.
I know that there is a lot to support the theory that they were captured and killed, still it makes no sense: They had decided to go on this trail they day before, that makes no room for an ambush, where everyting is organised and planned beforehand. And this "ambush" has to take place in broad daylight, with multiple witness around. And they were kept alive for many days and where? If they were hidden in plain sight, somebody would have seen/heard them, and willing to give information for a 30.000 $ reward. Nobody is that loyal to anybody! They had nothing of value on them, and even the 83 $ they did have was intact in the sack, as well as phones and camera. Criminals are dumb, but not that dumb. They would have kept ANYTHING even if it had just a token of value! And why does these murders not take place on a regular basis? These trails are swarming with foreign girls all the time. And some say that guide F had something to do with it. I doubt it. He had plenty of better opportunitis in the past if that is what he wanted. Besides, he is an elderly man aginst 2 young fit girls. It makes no sense either!
What was the purpose of having money on them?
I speculate it was for buying food, snacks whatever on their way where it was possible and for a taxi back home again! They probably decided to divert from the main trail, crossing a sign saying "Go no further" and went on a remote/isolated path they came accross that we must assume led nowhere. But they did not know that! (Maybe they had hoped to get to a view point much higher and then follow a path they belived would exist to the nearest town where they could get a taxi back home.) The problem was that they went away from civilisation and deeper into the jungle/wildernes, while beliving they were going right direction. They got stocked! Now they were disorientated and isolated, so what did they do, they called 112 but there was no signal!
It does not get scarier than that.
But I must admit that I am not ruling out faul play either. I have an open mind and of course there are things in this case that look (too) strange to be explaned using the "lost" theory" only.
@@perhentzepetersen9310 Since this is not solved and many things aren't easily explained by either theory, you could be right. I too go with the simplest and logical explanation though but that points to murder. I mentioned the phones use because Kris's phone is used at 9:33, 10:16, 10:50, 10:26, 10:51 as well as 13:42, 13:3, 13:37 again and 11:56. This persisted until the last day. Since this is only strange and we disagree on it we can ignore the phone calls.
Some of your points are contradictory. You mention that they survived in a place where they could not be seen or heard and yet a murder would have not been able to hide them in a place where they could not be seen or heard. These trails are used by cartel, natives and even cult members. They are used frequently by locals as well. Some of these people, such as the trail guide to suspiciously found everything, owns land near where they disappeared. This brings us to the state of the body. The bleached bones contained high levels of phosphorus consistent with lime used by local cartels and could not come from he soil. The bones did not show any abrasions which would have resulted from animals or flowing in a turbulent river. Also, the rolled up skin was found so well preserved that maggots had only begun to infest it. This is why forensic anthropologists stated it would have to have been manipulated. They also never found larger body fragments. The fragments they did find were small and located after an area had already been searched with dogs as though they were placed at a later date.
The state of the electronics also show someone must have found them after April 11. Since all other there electronics were in the same bag and did not stay in the jungle or the river for 2 months. So someone would have had to find the bodies, pack up the belongings and keep them for 2 months before setting the in that field. If they had innocently found the two girls already dead, then this person would have sought the 30K reward. By turning in this evidence, both fragments of the body and electronics, attention on the case quickly waned.
Not only have the parents hiked this trail but you can read experiences from other foreigners living in Boquette. It has a 20% immigrant population and many have sense tried to see how one could get lost and they never had any issues. The go no further sign was added after this incident along with a memorial for the two girls. Ones that found it difficult mention they found farmers willing to give directions. The first remains were found only 9 Km from the end of the tourist trail. That is only a 2-3 hour hike back the same direction they came.
Still, as I mentioned some of it doesn't make sense either way. The book bag could have been returned with out the phones and just one water damaged phone to stop media attention. The photos at night don't make sense for either theory. Only on one night, 8 days after getting last, they take an average of one photo every other min for 3 hrs of the same location. There aren't any good explanations for why they or someone with their belongings would do this.
@@binfernus Thanks, good article! You are well informed, I give you that Yes, some of my statements may be contradictive, I give you that also. I wrote it while my thoughts "run away" so to speak, but it is very frustrating: 2+2 does not equal 4, no matter how hard I try. A lot of your writings actually make sense. And I understand fully why you go along with the "murder" theory. It does have ground to support it, but I think some things also support the "lost" theory.
I jump right to one thing that I dont understand:
What may be the point with the nightfotos, where one girls actually is on it? And those strange "papersigns" laying on the rocks? Why go through the trouble making them in the middle of a thunderstorn and heavy rainfall. Apropos rainfall, her hair is actually dry! She was either asmathic or sick, because according to the houslady where they were staying, she coughed a lot. Not the best way to start a hike where you are to spend many days/nights out in the open without food nor shelter, unless you are either captured and later killed after many days, or they were lost which could explain why she was there......
@@perhentzepetersen9310 yes, I agree, I think they got themselves into trouble by not being prepared and misunderstanding the trail instructions, and then something happened or a few things went wrong. I think they thought the trail was a loop and they were heading back even though they were heading further into the jungle. By the way, it is my understanding that the sign was not there when they hiked. It was added later, probably because they did believe that confusion over the trail contributed. That side of the trail (northern) is also not well maintained and the river crossing conditions can change during the wet season and the trail can get washed out. The search parties also didn’t realise that they could have hiked that far, because eye witnesses said they hiked later in the day...so they concentrated the search around the mirador. Even though guide F searched to the paddock on the 3rd...unfortunately they were probably past this point. Supposedly it can be very windy around the cable bridges, and as they were not dressed for conditions other than a warm day, they probably sought out shelter here, but unfortunately were probably well hidden from searchers too...especially as they became weak or were injured.
My theory about the call schedule, was that at least initially, they tried to get to higher ground to call, to get the best signal. They would have to wait until sunrise, and wouldn’t want to get caught out before sunset. But I think later they were injured or too weak, and at this point they just did signal checks. Their batteries were low, both only half way charged on the first day, so they were trying to be smart about their phone usage. Lisanne’s phone did go flat on the 5th I believe.
The first and foremost indication leading towards a crime for me is the founding of the rucksack (its condition and items) and the distance different remains were found from each other towards the last known location of the girls.
I don't focus on Image 509, because it could have been accidently deleted by the police.
But that a bag is intact with its contains after months in a rainforest and the kind of items in it, let the accident in the wilds theory for me vanish immediately.
The phone logs - very fishy!
Only 2 emergency call attempts on the first day, 15 minutes apart. And after that 14 hours of nothing. No SMS attempt. No local notes on the phone, no more pictures from the camera for 7 days. All that brings me to the conclusion that those items have been in the hands of someone else, after the first legit emergency calls.
I wish all the best and strength to the Froons and the Kremers. One day the murderers will face justice, by court or by god.
@equizolls Picture 509 seems to be deleted by external access. So we have 3 options.
a) The people who had the camera after the girls, gained access to the memory card and deleted the picture.
b) The police accidently deleted the picture while analyzing for possible evidence.
c) Epstein didn't kill himself!
Another possibility for 509 is that Lisanne dropped the camera. Supposedly a ‘photo’ can be taken but the shock to the camera prevents data from being written, so it is registered as a photo, but no data is written. Nobody speaks either about reports that there was supposedly two 508 photos, one before 507 and one in the correct place after 507. Seems likely that there was some sort of glitch. The camera being dropped seems likely to me, as they didn’t take any more photos until the 8th. Maybe because the camera wasn’t working initially after that, or did one of them fall while they were taking this group of photos. Did Kris fall off the rock and Lisanne dropped the camera in shock, or did Lisanne drop the camera, lunge to catch it and fall? The backpack wasn’t found in such pristine condition as is made out, and the GPS coordinates paint the picture that their remains and the bag were carried by the flooded river from the cable bridges. The emergency calls do confuse me... that they could remain so calm and logical, but I think they really did believe they would be rescued.
The fact that they were young and very sexy and foreign makes me definitely believe they were targeted.
Hi Mara, You've done a really good job here... There is one additional point I would make..... A lot has been said about the fact that calls to the 'Emergency Services' were made from the girls' phones... What I would mention is who the girls DID NOT call (assuming it was the girls who made the calls).... It seems to me that if the girls got lost in the jungle, then they would no doubt have also tried to call their parents and other people they knew... Maybe also the Dutch boys they had been with recently, who might have been in the best position to offer practical help locally... I heard on other vids about the case that the girls had the habit of texting their parents every day prior to their disappearance... ... I find it very unlikely, to put it mildly, that they would not have tried to contact their parents and other people they know... Also, the fact that the girls stopped photographing each other late in the afternoon of the hike is highly suspicious... It is another clear break with their usual habit, and needs to be explained....
My feeling is that the girls were abducted, probably at some point in the afternoon the day they disappeared, and taken to an unknown location.... i strongly suspect that the calls were made by the abductors, knowing that the calls would not get through in order to create the impression that the girls were somehow lost in the jungle, desperately seeking help, whereas in reality, I suspect they were captive, or even dead.... What do you think? In any case, I think your analysis is really good... I also heard from other vids that four people connected to the case died in mysterious circumstances within a year and a half or so after the girls' disappearance, including the taxi driver who took Kris and Lisanne to the start of the hike... Sounds a bit like people being silenced who might know too much... Can you, or anyone shed any light on this?
Thanks a lot for your analysis. You forgot to mention that Lassane foot was found by the tour guide named Feliciano. I am 100% sure that the two poor girls were murdered and the tour guide is more likely involved in this mysterious case.
That’s quite a jump in logic, he found the bones so he’s involved. It is in a dangerous, inaccessible part of the trail/jungle. He’s a guide, who probably knows the area well. When they found the backpack he probably realised that a likely scenario was the flooded river brought it down from the cable bridges. The GPS coordinates of the remains found and the backpack paint the picture that the river carried them down. The remains were found in a bend of the river...I believe from basic understanding of sedimentation and how a river forms that snaking form that that is a logical place for their remains to settle.
@@sara_387 I'm of the "they got lost" camp, personally, but it is a bit odd how often the tour guide shows up in this story. He was in contact with them before their hike, he was in their bedroom the day after, he helped find the foot, etc... Dude really got involved in a sus kinda way!
Bottom line the tour guide was in on it as well as the taxi driver who mysteriously ends up dead a year later, my theory is that The tour guide met the girls on the path and the tour guide made them feel comfortable at first so they took a pic of him or of him and the girls together like a selfie, then as they walked other men that the tour guide new came onto the trail and thats when the girls were takin by force to God knows were, they were prob raped and left alive for a while, All the finger prints were of all the men who did the tour guides dirty work, As a plan the tour guide made the 911 calls himself to make it look like the girls were ok and just needing help, also Once the search was on thats when he had the girls killed and had there bag along with bras and phones placed somewhere as to be found, and the tour guide is the one who took the night time pics on the 8th of April to make it look like the girls were still ok or alive atleast but don't u think if the girls were ok that night that they would of took photos or even a video with there phone incase something happened or incase something was a emergency, not one night time pic had the girls on it, except for chrises hair, the tour guide took that pic after chris was either dead or tied up, why wouldn't the girls have took pics of each other at night it makes no sense, they were not even there, And then the tour guide made twigs with those red bags on it and took a pic to make it seem like the girls were doing a sos, and then magically some bones are found and bleached, And the cops were in on it or else they would of tracked down the finger prints, And they deleted the photo so the tourist buisness and economy would not be affected because if that pic that was deleted showed the tour guide with the girls then game over, the whole thing is nuts but anyone with a brain can figure this one out, also the local people were def in on it, maybe they didn't plan it but they covered it up and helped the tour guide get away with it, case closed.
Why would he do this? He has alot of customers who all say he is great. One bad review which seems fake... Why would he ruin his great tour career for these two girls? You cant just say it was F and he is a murderer who planned it all, you need more proof. You could be ruining his life. He has helped from the start and has been with the parents, he would have to be one evil guy and a good actor. im not saying he is totally innoccent, its easy to say hes guilty from behind a keyboard... There is some odd things he has done, but it doesnt mean he is guilty. Need more proof. He is still working as a guide to this day and people are still leaving him great reviews and getting some good pics with him....
I figure the same thing. The taxi driver called friends to tell them the 2 foreign girls were alone in the jungle. The police were questioning the taxi driver and so they got rid of him. The girls only went for a day hike and it makes no sense they would take off all their clothes to walk around the jungle. The tour guide went through the girls room the next day and he was to involved guiding the investigation.
Yes that’s exactly right ...I don’t even know why it’s a guessing game at this point. The answer is clear what you said is correct!!!!
I think the tour guide did it. Look at his eyes in UA-cam video “Dutch reporter in Panama to interview tour giide F” his pupils wide open at one moment. That’s because his brain recall the bad memory and picture it at the back of his eyes. Look at the UA-cam video murder or accident ? from Peaked Interest. Look at 51:41 when a review about the tour guide is read. Only couples or Big group of men are positive. One woman alone was sexual attacked by him. And he told her to chop of her legs with his machete. And he has a preference for Northern European ladies. And look at a interview with him in video “Interview with guide F”. When the parents went back to Holland at 1:41. He is smiling at the reporter. Why you smile at such horrific case? Because she is blond too! And he want to do to her what he did to the girls. Also look at the video “Gone in a flash” from Truly Criminal at 5:24 at the guide “F”. He is standing at the hiking trail next to the mother from one of the girls. He walks a little bit away and makes a small bow. What if you where not the murderer? Then you stand next to her to support her. Showing your face in the camera. Nothing to hide. He did not! His brains again recalls the bad moments he did. Thats why his body makes a move that wasn’t necessary.
YES. Feliciano Gonzalez did not murder the girls but he did dispose of them. He did not have the guts to kill them - but he did let them die. I'm guessing he found them on the second day after they got lost (probably even on the first day), lured them into an area where he knew they could NOT be found, and waited. OR (far more likely),... he could have simply found them when they were still okay at the top of the trail and promised to show them some interesting sights on the "other side," At that point, he would have taken the camera from Lisanne. (The fact that there are NO photos after they got "lost" is extremely significant. THAT is the key piece of circumstantial evidence. In addition, if Feliciano took the camera, he would have taken the phones as well.) He eventually walked so far ahead of them that they could not possibly keep up. A person can walk a great distance in three hours. He could have beguiled them with food and water so that they would trust him. Would they have dared to venture into a totally unknown area without a guide? Would they have been audacious or foolhardy enough to try such a thing? I don’t think so. I think they were enticed. After three hours of additional hiking (into unknown areas), when they were simply too weak to carry on (and he knew it).they stopped to rest. He also knew they could not get a signal for their phones. Did he tie them both up? It’s possible and it’s likely. That would have given him total control. After Kris died on the fifth or sixth day, he could have taken her to his house, leaving Lisanne behind. Lisanne was totally helpless by then. He probably came back multiple times to check on her. The intact backpack and the neatly folded jean shorts found much later show that he was remorseful afterward, like the coward that he is. HOWEVER, he could have simply abducted them on the very first day. If that's what happened, they would have fought back and easily overpowered him unless he was armed or had accomplices. It's more likely that he beguiled them into following him into those unknown areas of the jungle. The night photos are meaningless - Lisanne might have taken those photos while in a state of shock and/or a hallucinatory state of mind, like a drowning girl flapping at the water in the middle of the ocean, all in vain. She might have also taken them in an attempt to get a picture of Feliciano, assuming she heard him creeping about in the pitch-black darkness, waiting for her to die. That is far more likely, if in fact, she had the camera with her. HOWEVER, Feliciano probably took those photos. What Feliciano did with the bodies only he knows. It’s possible he had accomplices. How did he drag the bodies to his coffee plantation? That would have been easy. It was only half a mile away. In any case, REGARDLESS of the details of how all of this transpired, there is NO WAY their deaths were the result of an "accident."
Thank you for making this factual video!
Lisanne's left foot was not cut or severed or torn apart, the foot just let go of her leg within the shoe, probably a chemical like a type of bone phosphate of LIME (BPL)... which would explain why Kris's recovered bones were " BLEACHED" and why there were no marks on the bones... no cuts or abrasions like her body literally fell apart!
I think there's only three possibilities when it comes to what happened to the girls. We know they reached a certain point of the trail on the other side of the mountain, which is where the last normal photo was taken. From there, they could have wandered off of the trail for some reason at which point they could not find their way back and were lost. They could have kept walking down the trail until it got dark at which point they tried crossing the monkey-bridge and drowned. They could have been assaulted by someone. The first option would show some poor judgment but not totally unreasonable; there may have been something they saw that interested them away from the trail or maybe they were looking for a landmark they read about online such as the lost waterfall. It's possible they ventured off, say 500m-1km off the trail looking for something, got turned around and could not find the trail again. The second options, them heading in one direction for 6+ hours and not turning around even once the sun started setting seems extremely unlikely as no rational human being would voluntarily do this without a pretty good reason. They weren't dressed for a long hike... in fact, they weren't dressed for any sort of hike in that area at all which shows me that they weren't exactly being totally responsible or knew what they were getting into. The third option is that at some point after the last photo was taken, approximately two hours of hiking presumably, they were attacked. They were either raped and killed on the road or abducted and taken to a different location where the same thing occurred. One of the assailants took the phones and camera, deleted the picture, made daily calls to 911 in the jungle to make it seem like the girls were lost and then on one day randomly decided to snap 90 photos in the dark while it was raining. The criminals also bleached Kris's bones and at some point scattered the remains throughout the jungle and planted the backpack with the phones and camera for police to find so that they will assume the girls had just gone missing and no fowl-play was involved. This last theory seems kind of wild when you say it all in one sentence... just so many moving pieces and unnecessary troubles the criminals went thru which were actually more likely to get them caught. Why would they want anyone finding the girls bodies when presumably they could have just buried them somewhere no one would find them? Why would they return the phones and camera at all? It all sounds irrational, though so much evidence points towards tampering with evidence. Maybe an attack really did happen and there was more evidence which police seized and deleted once it was decided that it would negatively impact the tourist industry? Maybe the police knew who did it and since they couldn't formally arrest him decided to take care of it their own way by murdering him. The taxi driver that dropped the girls off that day was found dead, supposedly 'drowning' in a shallow puddle. Hmm...
If the killer was the son of a politician or a sheriff or any local authority I have no doubt the crime could have been covered up by the police.
In fact it looks a lot like a police cover up
Thank you for being non-sensational, respectful and thoughtful about this case. Very good introduction to the case!
Accidente = impossible. Nunca pasó que dos cuerpos se cayeran a un río que no llega ni a laa rodillas y los cuerpos se desintegren.. y que la mochila con laa cosas adentro se mantengan intactas.. es lo más estupido de creer.. lo que pasa que las autoridades no querían afectar el turismo.
They’re two young, beautiful women who sadly seem like they got attacked by a gang. I bet they weren’t even very old. They might have been the ones using the camera, but I think it was left with the girls and they couldn’t use it (bound hands?). They may have been left dead/dying and one girl wasn’t dead. She took the pictures using whatever strength she could (maybe it was behind her and she blindly took pictures.
Then they returned and collected the cameras, phones, and tragically the bodies. They placed the bag and shorts on the river. I don’t want to even speculate what they did to the bodies. Maybe they even took organs.
Such a tragic story!
There was a photo of (it’s claimed to be) the two young women, swimming with two men. The shot was taken at a distance and is very grainy to say the least. I’ve seen it on the internet, but I haven’t been able to get a definitive response as to when it was taken, or if it is even them. Anyone else have any input?
I've read about it, too. In the description box you can find my sources. In the Koude Kaas blog (Part 1) the author also talks about this photo. Feel free to check it out, there are just so many infos listed there it would have been almost impossible to include them all in just one video. Hope this helps you a bit :)
I've read about that pic that you are referring to and those two men were solid alibis by various people that they were nowhere near the two women at the time.
I don’t believe it’s Lisanne and Kris in that photo. If you look back at their photos in Bocas del Toro their body language, especially Lisanne is very different in mixed company, almost shy and closed off...arms and legs crossed. The girl in the photo who is supposed to be Lisanne is uninhibited...with men that they supposedly only knew for a couple of days at most...no, not likely.
On UA-cam look up the video El Pianista video 1. This guy who hikes was curious about the story so he traveled to Panama to retrace their steps. He made 3 videos of hiking through those jungles. He was totally prepared but he got lost several times. He carried a GPS with 3 batteries. He was able to get back on the trails again. Interesting videos.
Dear Mrs Cuja XD , first...this is a very awesome Video...you did a great Job with it! Archivment to earn my Sub reached! haha ....about the case...i am following the Dissapearance of Kris and Lisanne since such a long Time...and after a lot of thinking...i came to the conclusion, that ...they both went hiking on that day to the top of the pianista where they made the fotos...then, they met either the Tourguide alone or him with some more Men...The Men didn t wanted to get any attention from other Hikers, so they played nice and told the Girls maybe that they wanted to show them a bit more into the Woods...then they kidnapped the Girls. They kept them maybe in the Tourguide s Home or another Place...i think they killed Kris in that Night...but kept Lisanne for longer...the Tourguide and some other Men (maybe the same that kidnapped the Girls) helped to search for them...making sure the Police and searchteam would not get any hint to were the girls really are...who know smaybe they were brought with a vehicle to another village...anyway...Tourguide kept a keen eye on the Policework...i m sure they did something to Kris Body to make it decompose faster...that s why in the end they had her clean bones...are there Anthills in Panama?they could have tossed her into one...i m afraid Lisanne was kept alive and endured rape or maybe abuse...
when u said that about her shatterd foot it made my stomach turn around...
so..they kept Lisanne...killed her a while later...Tourguide went to the decomposing Body of Lisanne...maybe wanted to pick her shoe and accidently took the whole foot with...he planted it i the Jungle where he knew they would search next...he "surprisingly" found the foot...and later, he arranged, that the backpack was "been found" by a local woman...he had the backpack all the time in his possesion...that s why it is clean and not muddy or wet...he and his local buddys were going through the backpack together...touching the bras...touching the camera...looking at the pictures...someone found picture 509...there might be someone of the men visible when Lisanne took Pic s of Kris...so...
he took the camera to a computer...deleted the picture 509...
later, the prepaired backpack would be given to the police....Tourguide and the Villagers got upset because they didn t got the Reward...
did i forgot something...i m sorry for my bad explenation XD English isn t my native language...i am German lol...
i heard, that the Finka of the Tourguide was not really looked at by the Police...so...maybe the bigger rest of the remains of Chris and Lisanne are somewhere to be found on his Land..
Police of Panama surely would not want to investigate into that because they fear damage because of the Tourists...
sorry that was a long post...but...that s my theory ^^# the story of just got lost in the woods ...no...the thing that made this szenario impossible for me was the finding of the backpack in almost new condition...someone had that backpack and waited to give it out...
I came to the same conclusion. The taxi driver told his friends the 2 foreign girls were alone in the jungle. The tour guide ransacked the girls room the following day and he was very involved to guide the investigation. The taxi driver knew to much so he had to go.
You got it. On the money.
A lot of things points towards the tour guide. Could he be a psychopath?
Hard to say since not much is known about his personality structure. There is -as far as I am aware- no psych. Evaluation of him that had been made public.
Yes Feliciano!!!!👿👿👿
I wonder if they took those pictures because they could hear the helicopters during the day and hoped the flash might grab someone’s attention if they happened to be passing later that night. After looking closer at the photos and brightening them you can tell that most of them were shot facing upwards because the tree tops are in shot. The markers on the rocks are probably another sign to anyone walking around as to their whereabouts🤷♀️
The Tour Guide Feliciano Gonzales covered up the crime for his son Henry Elizar Gonzales.
Absolutely.
May I ask is it true please? - They left the path and got lost, tried to call for help then turned the phones off to try to conserve battery, occasionally turning them on when they thought they might have service. When they heard people searching for them they tried to signal with their camera flashes but failed (always carry a whistle, /out/) then as their strength was failing one of them fell off a cliff and was injured seriously which prompted the other to desperately try to call for help again before abandoning her. Then the one who fell died then the one who didn't fall died. They decomposed quickly in the hot, wet jungle and their remains were scattered by scavenging wildlife until they got small enough to be washed downstream.
I've heard about this case about 1 year ago...many people here in Brazil use to talk about on UA-cam.
In my opinion,it wasn't an accident.
Two young girls,this is so sad...😞
Hmmm they were murdered. Those pics are so fake they look like a freak show
The tour guide did it
This would explain the condition of the human remains found of Kris and Lisanne way better than the accidental fall theory of prosecutor Pitti.
I don't know who did it but I also struggle to believe that no third party was involved.
The pics were photoshopped for sure. Any graphic designer, imagem editor can see all the blurs and imperfections...
There's a utbue creator named jaun that looks at exfit data proofing the pics sre doctored .
The photos don't make sense regardless of the theory. It averaged about a photo a minute for two hours but all are in the same location. There isn't much reason for the girls or a murderer to take them.
I read somewhere that a dog they knew walked with them upon the trail and returned alone. But you would not cross a monkey bridge with a dog! So i do not think they crossed the bridge. The cut of her food was straight and not ripped off. So it was chopped off!
I think the tour guide did it. Look at his eyes in UA-cam video “Dutch reporter in Panama to interview tour giide F” his pupils wide open at one moment. That’s because his brain recall the bad memory and picture it at the back of his eyes. Look at the UA-cam video murder or accident ? from Peaked Interest. Look at 51:41 when a review about the tour guide is read. Only couples or Big group of men are positive. One woman alone was sexual attacked by him. And he told her to chop of her legs with his machete. And he has a preference for Northern European ladies. And look at a interview with him in video “Interview with guide F”. When the parents went back to Holland at 1:41. He is smiling at the reporter. Why you smile at such horrific case? Because she is blond too! And he want to do to her what he did to the girls. Also look at the video “Gone in a flash” from Truly Criminal at 5:24 at the guide “F”. He is standing at the hiking trail next to the mother from one of the girls. He walks a little bit away and makes a small bow. What if you where not the murderer? Then you stand next to her to support her. Showing your face in the camera. Nothing to hide. He did not! His brains again recalls the bad moments he did. Thats why his body makes a move that wasn’t necessary.
There is no dog, planted BS!
Bones found I. A shoe. Of course a fuckin murder
The cut was straight and not ripped of. So it was chopped off.
@@jorb8572 Was it chopped off? I've don a lot of reading on this case and have never heard or read that. Do you remember where you heard that?
@@sgtpepperbandmember5295 Everyone is so accusatory on YT anymore. I think people need to get over themselves.
@@sgtpepperbandmember5295 I was talking about you. Shaming me for not knowing the 'facts' of the case? When there's so much hearsay and speculation on this case? You need to slow your roll.
@@ceruleanc505 I have done a lot of reading but where i can’t remember.
Very well presented. You have such a sweet personality that comes through in your delivery. I giggle every time you say CHungle☺☺
Good job. Feliciano Gonzalez did not murder the girls but he did dispose of them. He did not have the guts to kill them - but he did let them die. I'm guessing he found them on the second day after they got lost (probably even on the first day), lured them into an area where he knew they could NOT be found, and waited. OR (far more likely),... he could have simply found them when they were still okay at the top of the trail and promised to show them some interesting sights on the "other side," At that point, he would have taken the camera from Lisanne. (The fact that there are NO photos after they got "lost" is extremely significant. THAT is the key piece of circumstantial evidence. In addition, if Feliciano took the camera, he would have taken the phones as well.) He eventually walked so far ahead of them that they could not possibly keep up. A person can walk a great distance in three hours. He could have beguiled them with food and water so that they would trust him. Would they have dared to venture into a totally unknown area without a guide? Would they have been audacious or foolhardy enough to try such a thing? I don’t think so. I think they were enticed. After three hours of additional hiking (into unknown areas), when they were simply too weak to carry on (and he knew it).they stopped to rest. He also knew they could not get a signal for their phones. Did he tie them both up? It’s possible and it’s likely. That would have given him total control. After Kris died on the fifth or sixth day, he could have taken her to his house, leaving Lisanne behind. Lisanne was totally helpless by then. He probably came back multiple times to check on her. The intact backpack and the neatly folded jean shorts found much later show that he was remorseful afterward, like the coward that he is. HOWEVER, he could have simply abducted them on the very first day. If that's what happened, they would have fought back and easily overpowered him unless he was armed or had accomplices. It's more likely that he beguiled them into following him into those unknown areas of the jungle. The night photos are meaningless - Lisanne might have taken those photos while in a state of shock and/or a hallucinatory state of mind, like a drowning girl flapping at the water in the middle of the ocean, all in vain. She might have also taken them in an attempt to get a picture of Feliciano, assuming she heard him creeping about in the pitch-black darkness, waiting for her to die. That is far more likely, if in fact, she had the camera with her. HOWEVER, Feliciano probably took those photos. What Feliciano did with the bodies only he knows. It’s possible he had accomplices. How did he drag the bodies to his coffee plantation? That would have been easy. It was only half a mile away. In any case, REGARDLESS of the details of how all of this transpired, there is NO WAY their deaths were the result of an "accident."
I think the tour guide let himself into their room to either plant or remove evidence. I think he made up the part about them making an appointment with him.
The tour guide's card was found in their room, but after he was in it probably also for at least some time on his own as Eileen was on the phone and maybe did not pay too much attention to what he was doing. His house in the jungle (or the house of his son who lived close to Alte Boquete where some of the remains where found) was never searched by authorities so we don't know if he had anything connecting him to the crime or if he removed anything from their room. But why would they place his card clearly visible on the bed before leaving? I think he staged it to make it seem as if they had an appointment. But this is just speculation...at the very least the tour guide (and maybe also his son) are suspicious after all
Do you know if he was interrogated? It seems like everyone just accept what he said. Where did they plan to go with him? To the same pianistsa treil? So many questions.
@@adish7275 I think he was questioned but never interrogated.
If the CIA or FBI interrogated the tour guide for 1/2 hr, he would tell a different story. He obviously was involved and set them up. I wouldn't advise anybody to travel to central america, it's too dangerous.
But the question is also why was he 30 min in their room. Thats quite long. Seems like searching for something.
Kris and Lisa contracted tick bite fever, and whilst hiking became feverish, and disorientated. They sought shelter in a cave, where they died from their sickness. Dogs scattered their bones, some of the bones were bleached by bat faeces, after dogs had eaten the meat from them. This explains the bleaching.
Great theory! But how does that explain the backpack and little inconsistencies like that? This isn’t me attacking you, it’s a really interesting theory, I just wanted to know if you thought of that
Great job thank you for the video, keep it up 👍
Thanks a lot! 😊
Definitely yes to an update on the book!
Amazing presentation. Good job. Love from 🇺🇸.
I love your podcast. Can tell just the way you tell these poor girls story that we are in agreement, the guide was involved
Costa Rica and Panama are countries located in Central America, not South America. Thanks for the video. Cheers.
Good video Mara,,soory for my english...seen a lot of videos,,just few are well made, and you said things i didn´t know,,,i discovered this case few days ago, and since had nightmares..i feel so bad and in shock...tell me do you know something about apparently Kris and Lisa swiming with two local guys,,heard to something about they met to two duch boys...and something about in the taxi cab(who died a year after) there where two more guys .....i was sure that F (the guide)was involved ,,but not the killer. Still dont get how ducht investigator did not pressure more the locals, F..the school who rejected the girls,, the taxi cab...and all the corrupted panama investigator....and what happened with dactilar fingertrips on the camera???
And there are youtubers who say that the girls got lost and died accidentally. What a bullshit...1000% crime.
Theory:
When the girls reached the end of the trail the girls began to walk back. On the way back they encountered Feliciano Gonzalez and friends(maybe including his son and Plineo Montenegro). Feliciano started to molest them and threaten them with his machete. He then told them to march on along one of the trails. He menaced Lisanne with his machete and threatened to harm her if Kris ran away. He told Lisanne to take a couple photos of on the trail, so as to have evidence on the camera to show they had continued on the trail. He directed them which way to go until they reached his coffee farm. He took them to a cave or building near or on the farm. He and his friends raped the girls. He tied them up so they could not escape. He may have deliberately hobbled them by dropped something very heavy on their feet. With the girls imprisoned on his farm he returned to Boquete to visit the place where they were staying. The girls had either secreted the phones on their persons or they were left in a place where it was possible for them to gain access to them with care. Maybe Feliciano knew there would be no phone connection. Feliciano and friends returned repeatedly over a period of days to the farm to rape the girls. He gave them some food and water. Finally after a number of days when he had lost interest in them and when the hunt for the girls was picking up he ended up killing them both Kris first and Lisanne later. He planted evidence such as the bones and the backpack. The night time photos, I am not sure, I guess were most likely taken by the men and not the girls as I can't see why Lisanne would take a photo of the back of Kris's head. I would think that most of the remains of the girls are on or near his farm.
This gives a clear idea of my train of thought. I am not claiming that every detail is exactly as I describe it, it is possible that some things happened slightly differently.
I think that it is quite inappropriate to harass Mr. Feliciano Gonzalez. Someone is innocent until proven guilty. Having said, from all I know about the case he would be my prime suspect. It is unfortunate that DNA and fingerprints were not analysed. I daresay he selected/planted only the bones which did not have signs of foul play and that is why the other body parts haven't been discovered. Has anyone taken DNA samples from Feliciano or taken his fingerprints? If you can find his DNA or fingerprints where they aren't supposed to be according to his story then you have got something. For example, his DNA or fingerprints should not be on Kris's shorts as supposedly they were not found by him. I would suspect that his DNA is all over the items in their backpack much more so than if he just found it. It might be possible to find traces of his DNA on bones that were found by others. Where are these items of evidence now: the bones, the shoe, the backpack etc. ?
His farm should be thoroughly searched and where appropriate tested for fingerprints and DNA, even the slightest evidence that could show that the girls had been on or near that farm would be crucial.
If you are feeling ill, why would you go on an 8 kilometer ascending hike in a jungle - dressed like you are going to the beach?
Woow dear u r doing a great informational video for this case thnx..love fron srilanka
Thanks for your support! :)
Don't go to that place.
Alot of people do and go on the tour with F and have a great time...
Very very well done! Lots of other vids on this case do not even mention Eileen or emphasize the "odd" over involvement of the tour guide (Feliciano). Thank you! 👌
Thanks, I put in a lot of work in the video 😊
Congrats on a very thoroughly researched video! However, the meeting with the local guide for April 2 was not necessarily to the Pianista trail. It was likely some other trail. Also, it is strange that the guide would want or receive, access to their room. Yes, I am interested in an update, once the new book comes out in April.
Thanks 😊
The tour guide changed his statement multiple times. His story is so confusing so thanks for mentioning this!
@@maracuja320 Yes, you are so right. And that is because the tour guide, to his credit, sounded the alarm and filed a report with the local police promptly. Very important because most police will not do anything until 48 hours after a report has been filed. So you have to start the clock ticking. However, consider that same person handed the backpack in to the police from the native lady in Alto Romero who discovered it. Consider that same person discovered and handed in the bone fragments and skin tissue in to the police. To avoid the taint of suspicion, he has indeed "changed his story" (on more than one issue). (I am not implying anything; just describing things matter of factually.)
What’s the book called?
@@jayarfa8453 "Lost In The Jungle". Only available right now in Dutch. English version coming out between late July to late August
Most definitely murder. If they fell in the river and died how the hell did their backpack get so far away and How was it dry?? how did they BOTH disappear and only some bare bones found, did they BOTH break their bones in a weird accident? What are the chances for that to happen??
Btw, great video, new information.
Chances are slim and none, and slim left town the other night.
Seems like lots of smaller youtubers come out with 10 minute videos
full of main stream media propaganda, and stuff that has never proven to
be real. Really impressed with your video! Since i heard of this case a
few months ago i've been fascinated with it, and hope we get answers in
our lifetimes for the girls and their families. keep doing what you're
doing excellent work, thanks from the USA! Regarding the guides story. Apparently he met them the day before april 1st and planned to take them on the hike on april 2nd, it's still very weird if this happened in the USA that guide would be questioned by the police for weeks straight. The day after the families offer a $30,000 reward he happens to find the bones in the woods very very strange...
Thanks! There will more true crime videos as soon as my examination phase is over and probably also an update in April/ May when the book will be released.
The tour guide is suspicious and also the timing he found the bones is strange. Very strange...
Some corrections. Panama is not in S. America, there is no Mirador "platform". Blue can only be seen by the owners maybe 50m. The trail proper starts 2km away. How do I know? I have seen Blue and hiked the Pianista.
How was the hike?
Маra Cuia - Marakuia, где то я видела похожую девушку на фото..ты случайно не родственница проводника, который должен был сопровождать Крис и Лесан ?!..У одного иностранного блогера освещающего эту тему была фотография на которой проводник и девушка, рядом, и так похожи, я подумала что все говорят о том что это мог сделать его сын, он занимается на ферме удобрениями, но никто не говорит о его дочери, если она у него есть, конечно..или племянница..все равно - одна семья - мафия, и все повязаны..так вот Mara kuia, ты очень похожа на родственницу горе - проводника..еще и ник такой, панамский..
If they wanted to improve their Spanish skills how would hiking in the jungle help them.
Makes no sense to me why a tour guide would be so concerned.
His entire behavior is strange to say the least
Read further into it about certain family members of his, and the family member's friends. This topic can consume a youtuber for a week at least, I have a strong feeling about this. A few of the commenters on this thread have already accurately laid out a case for what happened. The ridiculous aspect is the interference of politics, local and national.
There is a new book about the case from Marja West, kindle version, Amazon." Lost in the jungle: the disappereance of..
The book based of facts,documents, IT-experts, forensic specialists.The book also explain the investigations of the bones etc..a great interesting book. All your doubts will be answered in that book
Nicely presented video so will watch your others sometime. I've been fascinated and haunted by this case for a good while now and have seen and read lots about it. So many things that don't make sense but I am as sure as I can be that the girls were murdered (either by sexual predator/s or for their organs to be trafficked). I also think that Kris and Lisanne were never even on that trail on that day and the photos have been manipulated to give that impression. It seems all to be an elaborate cover up to protect either the murderers or the Panamanian tourist industry (maybe both).
went hiking, got lost, died
Good info! Did you read Scarlets blog?
Yeah, I did read it completely...she did an amazing job and put in so much work in it. The blog is also listed in the sources since it's almost impossible to compile it all into just one video!
@@maracuja320 I've been following this case for a little over a year. I've never read Scarlets blog but heard it contains about everything you want to know. I'm glad you did this video since it actually consists of more detailed information and things I didn't know. Most people on YT just watch 1 or 2 videos then make a video that repeats the same exact info. I got really tired of hearing about the "host family dog" knowing it's the restaurant owners. And what family? It's 1 lady anyway. Did you see the video where someone puts all the night pictures together so you can tell they were all taken from the same exact spot just different perspectives? They just tilted the camera and pointed it in a little different direction.
It was no accident
I doubt it as well...too many strange things are going on here. Hope the families will get closure one day. Their laywer also doubts the accident theory by the way
If they weren't such attractive girls full of friendly social butterfly persona I would maybe believe they got hurt or lost but I absolutely believe they were targeted.
Have the bones ever been DNA tested in Holland?
Is there a suitable candidate ravine or gorge within 1 hour of the trail summit? We know they called emergency services pretty early on (4pm ish), so this large cliff face has got to be nearby. Could we be looking at a series of accidents?
Possibly, that's what I believed for quite some time. But accidents don't bleach your bones and don't explain the findings of the remains...Looking at how the bones and the skin ball as well as their belongings were found later I don't think it was only due to an accident (or mulitiple accidents).
@@maracuja320 How do you think those guys have gotten hold of the new shorts photos? Are they in contact with relevant authorities or next of kin do you think? This cold case might be going somewhere...
hello my beautiful friend. i hope you had a awesome weekend. and i hope you have a terrific week. you are a terrific lady, and you make awesome videos. i am so glad i subscribed to your channel.
Thanks! Hope you have a good week, too :)
Love from Indonesia ❤️
Less you, more crime scene. pls.
Accident impossible
Cb mf absolute bs
Schein - do you mean shin?
the guild's gone to their room so he could use their computer and delete the photo 509, the only problem would be how did he get the password, if that's the case all the calls after day one and night photos are red herring's to throw people into thinking the girls got lost for over a week in the jungle. I would say the got kidnapped and killed for organ trafficing.
But I've gota say there's so many twists and turns and unanswered questions, you can't say for sure 100% what happened. the guild's and dead taxi drive will know!!
I thinks both of them little a bit complicate
You mean that they had an accident and then some form of foul play was involved?
@@maracuja320 yes I think
Killed by a jaguar. There are regional governmental conservation efforts to protect the jaguar. Any official autopsy would tend to block jaguar predation as a cause. One of the last photos taken has been forensically modified to help brighten the picture. You can see a large cat. Leaving this picture on the phone was a fortunate mistake on the part of the first agency to view the photos. Any clear pictures of a jaguar would have been erased, before it was released to the public. The girl was smart to create as much of a reflective surface as possible to temporarily flash-blind the jaguar. From the summit point, one of the young women saw how easy it would be to travel along the river all the way to the north coast, rather than turn around. The ginger girl, in one of the later pictures, was really uncomfortable with the idea of following the riverbank. A jaguar's main hunting area is the riverbank. Jaguars have one of the highest bite strengths of any animal. When a cat chews bone, it grinds it into a paste. The only bones left with mountain lion attacks tend to be the flesh they couldn’t get out of the footwear.
Locals said that most wild animals avoid humans in that jungle. Because other animals know better that humans are the most vicious and violent creatures on this planet.
Ola
The book is crap... unfortunately.
Def murder
Hardly an objective book title. They weren't lost (no proof) and it isn't a jungle (there are cows there).
You should really do a better job cutting out your 'uhs' and small mistakes. Also some structuring would help your presentation, too.