Shopsmith table return to a perfect 90° every time? Mine does... now
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
- ✅ SHOP NOTES: It's shockingly simple to set-up your Shopsmith main table to return to a perfect 90° to the saw blade or sanding disk every time, but your Shopsmith probably needs this table tilt stop adjustment. Don't worry, it's easy.
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#TableTiltStop #Shopsmith
One of the things about ShopSmith is that those types of adjustments are easy to make. They are also well illustrated in the user manual. Not so easily done on a contractors or cabinet saw. I'll check those adjustments before starting a project where square is important and it makes me smile when I don't have to tweak it.
Depending upon when your machine was produced she may absolutely have nothing to do! In recent years Shopsmith has been shipping out Mark V’s and Mark 7’s are totally aligned and set up ready for use. That certainly was not the case in the 1980s when I purchased mine. Scott
I have been using that button for years and never looked to see what it contacted. Just assumed it was a surface machined at the factory and dead on. Thank you Scott. I will check it immediately if not sooner! Keep the funny side up.
Scott… I have a permanent white paint dot on my disc just for this purpose. I found it by taking a couple of saw blades on different arbors and comparing their cuts to the disc setting.
My sweet spot for square and 45degrees is set so the stop pin doesn’t pop back when the table is locked. It will pop back if I tap on the table afterward.
I set it that way because I often have the fence and/or a fixture installed on the table. They require a different ‘feel’ to get the loose stop, that you prefer, accurately set. I find that a firm pressure against the stop is my most reproducible setting.
You did a nice job of illustrating this
Thanks, Dave. Are used to try to trap the pan, but ultimately I found that it would pop free in use, so I suppose it can’t be off by more than a few minutes. Scott
Scott, great video! I keep learning new things that I should already know. I also appreciate the number and quality of the comments and your replies. There are quite a few great ideas contained in these exchanges. I hope everyone that watches your videos become channel members!
I sure do appreciate the support and you are right about my viewers. They are a sharp bunch. Scott
Brings back fond memories of when I first got my SS :-) and went through the alignment procedures. I do a verification check every so often but I should do the whole thing again, its been enough years that the number has 2 digits and the first digit isn't a 1. It also reminds me of people saying the SS wasn't accurate, I just figured they didn't know how to align things. All machines need alignment and checking every so often.
You are so right. I just commented on another poster about how the current machines are coming out of the factory perfectly aligned, but that wasn’t the case in years past. It is surprising how well they hold their accuracy. Scott
A well aligned Mark V/7 is a joy to use. Have you considered testing for any quill runout? But, I will say it is a good sign for your quill that your disc's high spots were 180 degrees from each other and the low spot 90 degrees from that. If you can only detect one high spot that could indicate a larger than average runout on the quill.
Thanks, Scott for another great lesson. I have checked my 510 w/520 table several times and never thought about taking out the table insert for better access to the stop bolt. Duh!! What a great tip. I always learn something from watching your channel. Much appreciated.
Glad to hear it, John. Thanks for watching. Scott
I had No Clue that button was for that!!!! "Today I Learned" moment.; Thankyou Scott, as always the info in your videos is priceless!!
Happy to be your muse. Scott
That button is one of my favourite features on the shopsmith. I find myself using it nearly every time I use the shopsmith. Thanks for another great informative video.
Me too. Sorry I wasn’t able to show you anything new today, but I’ll get ya next time!
Scott after watching this video I went out in my shop to do some bandsawing! There was a screw that was not flush with the tanker which was very annoying. I stopped and fixed what was annoying me! Made the whole session enjoyable! Thank you
Way to go, Larry!
Thanks for the reminder Scott. It has been years since I have checked the alignment of my machine. Now to find the time...
That's ALWAYS the challenge, isn't it?
I sometimes use a digital angle gauge that I zero on the saw blade, then adjust my table to whatever angle is needed for my project. Also use this method to verify my table stop is still reading 90 deg to the saw blade.
I find that the digital angle gauge is convenient for this too. Of course it's important to know you have a good point of reference and Scott's demonstration of spinning the disc was a good reminder.
@@jtome12 that's why I zero off the saw blade, so I'm referencing off of my cutting surface.
Looks like I need a digital angle gauge. I make hexi shelves and getting the table angle perfect is a challenge. .
@@daveschmitt6369 they're helpful. Be sure to get one with magnets on the base.
Good tip. I've been lucky as my machine pops right back to 90 degrees. Never had to adjust it. Glad to know how. Thanks
LUCKY! Seriously, Anne, when was your machine produced?
@@MyGrowthRings That's a good questions, how do I find that out? It's been awhile.
@@annemcdonley5983 On the left-hand side of the headstock the serial number should either be embossed on the chrome nameplate, or the date code will be on a white sticker below the nameplate. If it’s a serial number you can look that number up on the Shopsmith website.
Thanks Scott. This needs to get back to making sawdust. Alignment and waxing here I come!
Right on!
Thanks for another great tip. Always good to get reminders of things we know but often forget about. Yesterday I set up to resew a 1/2" thick board on the bandsaw and noticed what appeared to be the table not square to the blade. Checked it, and sure enough, it was off. That would have made a terrible resew cut. Adjusted and perfection, using the cast iron table and miter gauge with fence extension. Sweet! Blessings, Glen
Good catch. It’s always smart to double check those things.
what I used to do, to eliminate any potential error from the sanding disk, since they could be cupped or domed a little, is using the lathe faceplate to turn a small bowl shaped piece from a bit of scrap hardwood, the lip of the bowl will ALWAYS be perfectly perpendicular to the axis of rotation and being cupped there's no way that any material in the middle will interfere with the alignment. You can raise the table up and hang your square off the edge of the table to rest your straight edge along the whole top of the bowl and then your table will also be raised up enough that it's easier to see the gauge too while you're working. I used to try to use a dial indicator on the quill and test the height of the table while extending it, but that became too complicated and easy to mess up compared to simply using a square and scrap wood for a bowl.
That’s a very good idea.
Commenting to help the algorithm, stayed all the way to the end, don't forget 45 degrees though I see the bolt for it.
Thanks Drew.
Amazing how the things you do make so much sense and yet I never think to do it that way until I see you do it. Thanks, K
After using the sanding disc to adjust/ check for squareness, I also double check for square at the saw blade that I'm using.
Thanks Scott
Perfect timing for me. I was struggling with this adjustment and you made so easy for me. With a digital angle gauge and a square I’m right on and is repeatable. I’m so happy to finally get it right on.
Woohoo!
Have you checked the table for flatness? Of course, poor trunnion alignment or other trunnion problems can case a front to back crown. But, there can also be a left-right crown which in my case seemed to be cause by improper tensioning order of the trunnion bolts. Just guessing here, I assume someone cranked down one bolt to max torque one at a time instead of easing them in an alternating pattern. And it's aluminum (thankfully for our backs), not casts iron so it can be only so flat to start.
Since I've adapted the habit of mostly using the right miter slot, and setting the fence to the right of the blade, I double check the 90 degree setting from the right table as well. EDI . . . by putting the disk through the slot like a saw blade.
Yes, I intend to discuss that in another video. I’ve seen a lot of tables that are bowed because of the improperly aligned trunnions. Scott
@@MyGrowthRings I would suggest not mentioning future plans on a open channel... There are carpet bagging ears everywhere... (Gnouy Ekim)
Ahh! Just found out about that button. Going to align that right now!
Great video. I need to set a day aside and do all of the calibrations. I'm a list person so I need to make a list and check them off as I do them.
That’s actually a really great idea. Scott
Great video. I had wondered why I needed to hit the table to get the lock free. When you started the film and your did the same thing I thought that looks familiar. It looks like your adjustment fixed it. I’ll try. Again, I always learn something about my shopsmith. Thanks. Dave😊
That can also happen if you accidentally wax the trunnions.
I didn't know it has that feature. Since I usually cut 2xs; nothing precise. Now I need to check my 510.
Good one. First I'll have to get some sandpaper off one of my sanding disks.
Check out David Hill’s comment, or if you happen to have a 510 or 520, just bring your disk up through the table slot.
@@MyGrowthRings Oh. Duh!
I’m going to the garage right now and make it right. One maybe obvious thing to mention - make sure the headstock and table have been tightened to the way tubes!
Exactly!
Good video, thanks. I have not checked the warp of my sanding disk or saw blade at rest before.
It’s one of those things like checking a framing square to make sure that the square is square!
Love the outake at the end.
Maybe I way over think it but the deflections in sanding disks always concern me. I use the saw blade after checking for flatness with the dial gauge. Then, just about every time I change the tilt, I throw a digital angle gaude on the blade, zero it and then place it on the table adjusting to within 4 one thousands of 90 degrees. Yes, I find the stop normally gets me there and maybe I am chasing zeros but its my nerotic behavior and I like it.
That's good enough for me.
When does your future shop become your shop? I know you have talked about dividing the large space into smaller space. There seems to be a Shopsmith in your space, it looks like a shop to me and you do projects in the space. So I'm curious about the terminology.
I’m splitting hairs. Just this week I met with a contractor and we’re discussing next steps to finish the shop space. I’m anxious, because next comes HVAC, which I will absolutely need come winter time. Scott
I just did this to one of my machines. And while you’re at it, set the 45 stops too.
This is an awesome video and truly helpful. A challenge I have recently figured out that I have is that my saw blade is not at 90* from the front of my saw table or parallel to the miter gauge slots. And I have not been able to figure out how to remedy this. Do you have any pointers or a previous video about this.
Which machine do you have?
I have two 510’s. One with a power pro head. The other with the standard head, which is the one that the table is out of alignment with the blade
@@karlbrucesnelgrove1883 The instructions will tell you to loosen the four bolts that hold the table tip to the trunnions, but I suggest that you loosen three of them and pivot on the fourth. Leave one of the back ones tight as there is slightly more travel on the front. Scott
Or; what I just verified. I extended my quill and took my Digital Angle Gauge, placed it on the quill shaft and zeroed out the gauge. Then, since I have a sandpaper on my disk, I placed the Digital Angle Gauge on the back side of the disk and turned the disk, repositioning the DAG until it read 90.0⁰ The DAG readings were from 89.6⁰ to 90.1⁰. Good enough for gub'mint work.
Now your getting technical on us!
LOL
Nice approach.
We are talking about woodworking here. Excess extreme accuracy is not essential. Most times we are our own worse critics...
You're assuming the thickness of the disk is very accurate (consistent)?
@@Urmyrx Thickness? How does that come into play?
Thank you.
You are welcome, Ronnie.
I usually square the table to the blade. If I'm trying to square the drill press to the bit I'll use the sanding disk.
Don’t let the video fool you because I do the same too! Scott
I think the lesson here is NEVER trusting a previous owner's setup.
So true!
that was an amazing reveal, and super helpful . curious as to why you used the disk sander and not a saw blade. isn't the saw blade a more reliable flat option?
Good question. When I started with Shopsmith back in 1987 we recommended using a saw blade, but when they swapped the steel saw blade with a carbide tipped one in the 1990's they determined that it would be better to suggest using the disc. That said, not all saw blades are flat at rest. The other advantage of using the 12" disc is that you have a larger diameter surface to measure against. Either method works. Scott
Great video as always. Probably unnecessary, but I have an aluminum alignment plate that I use on my old table saw. I was thinking about finding a 5/8 shopsmith arbor and permanently mounting it to the plate. Will tying the table to the extension table cause any deflection to this adjustment if you tighten everything down? Thanks!
That's a great question, Jeff. Yes, if the extension table isn't properly aligned it can yank the main table slightly out of alignement. It sure shows the importance of taking the alignment process step by step. Scott
Scott, I didn't know there was a stop or a button! I have to look for these and set it. I've used a digital gauge and my saw blade. Is my saw blade not perpendicular to the quill?
Yes, Frank, the saw blade is perpendicular to the quill. Is you gauge one that connects to the blade with magnets? Scott
i like that one better then the one the lock will not let you see. ok im just mad to day i pot the rong table over the saw blad and it was not set right. i know to meny tables is my falt.
Another great video! I never knew about that pin. What owners manual? Thank you again
It's yet another one of those little things that can be easily missed or misinterpreted.
@woodshop nerdery brings up a good point/question. If the quill does have runout that is less than ideal how would that be fixed?
Anymore that means replacing the entire quill. There was a time that you could purchase all of the parts of the quill individually, but they only sell the entire quill as a set now.
Like getting the table square to the blade on marvel industrial band saw.
Is the Marvel the one where the saw travels while the stock is clamped in place?
@@MyGrowthRings yes, it has about a million hours on it and it's frankly worn out!
@@drstyxquack Those are really cool. Can it be restored?
@@MyGrowthRings I suppose, we have tried to take care of it but when several different people run it over the past few years it unfortunately breaks! It cuts angles, sometimes not accurately or can it keep the angle it's set at very long.
I'm wondering if the sanding disk should have been rotated 180° (moving the high spot to the back of the table) to double check at the 7:50 in the video. Then if it is off, pull out the feeler gauges and take a average gap at 0° and 180°?
It’s certainly worth a try. My disk has a pretty obvious “tilt” to it as opposed to a cup. I have another disk that is totally cupped. there’s another technique that will take a look at in the follow up video. Scott
"My Growth Rings take 39, and action!"
You got that right! So many takes!
Hello. I am getting set up to turn bowls on my mark 5. Bought it new in 1979. Can you offer advise for a lathe tool sharpening system ? CBN wheels are recommended as best at low RPM. I would rather not invest in a low speed grinder. Have you, or Shopsmith, developed an integrated system with Wolverine ? Thank you. David Brooks, Cool-N-Organic Woodwork.
That’s a great question, David. No, I haven’t tried to integrate a Wolverine, but I have given it a lot of thought. I also am impressed with the CB and wheels. I would mount one on the left-hand side of the head stock and build a support for the wolverine that would clamp to the way tubes on the left side as well. A 8” wheel mounted on a 5/8” Molder/Dado arbor would do the trick for mounting it, and that would also move the wheel a bit to the left and get you a little more room so the headstock isn’t in the way. Scott
'Scott,
You mentioned that there was "Loctite" on the adjustment bolt. Should that be reapplied to prevent creeping out of alignment?
Ron, I've never seen one creep, but it it is creeping that's what I would do. Scott
@@MyGrowthRings Thx!👍
Just wondering if the sanding disk is a little warped if it would be better to use a saw blade on it instead? Maybe the saw blade would be more square?
It may be. We'll talk about this in the follow-up. Scott
Went through that twice. I bought two mark 5 's and both were out of line. Am I right in assuming that as long as you set the alignments correctly rolling the machine around the garage will not affect alignment. My garage has a slope and I roll the machine around like we're dancing at times.
That’s a funny mental picture. Yes, they are quite robust and hold their settings well. I had one roll over in a U-Haul and then a 12 inch cast-iron bed planer fell over on it, and after checking, the alignment was still perfect.
Scott, that is what rope is for. 😂
I hate to see a man un happy with his Shopsmith. So Just for you I will be happy to trade you a 510 table set up for that 520. 😂😂 I took machine tooling in Highschool at Vo-tech. You Never trust a machine to be zeroed in unless you did it yourself. For one thing my thoughts of... "that is close enough to square" might be very different from the previous owner. Kind of like a gun. Unless I unloaded it myself I am going to assume it is loaded.
Even Knowing I have set all my tables and stuff correct I always double check before starting a new project if it something I am seriouse about. . Despite all of the hater's out there I believe Shopsmith has the ability to be one of the most accurate tools on the market. It all depends on how much effort a person spends setting them up.
Also If you have a good magnetic electronic protractor you can extend the quill and place it on that and zero it setting on that or you can place it on a way tube and set it to zero. Then just place it on the table and and just the table to match. They are plenty accurate enough for wood working. I use then to set my table when making segmented bowls too. But the way tubes and quell both are inline with the arbor no matter how the machine is setting.
That’s one measuring tool that I don’t own. Thanks for the tip.
No, wait. I think I know what you mean now and yes, I own one. That’s another great tip!
@@MyGrowthRings I have even used a level app on my I phone 11 before. It works very well but you have to be aware that phone cases and buttons may throw you of your reading too. you now if they are not placed on the two surfaces the exact same way. That and I imagine that I-phone and some of more expensive phones work better than the budget phone.
So now that you have it at 90 to the sanding disk put your fence on the table. Put it on the extreme edge of the table away from the disk. Is the table still square to the disk? I have a power pro.
Are you concerned about the weight of the fence causing the table to sag to the right?
@@MyGrowthRings
Yes. I have seen ways to mitigate the flex, ie Nick.
What part of NC are you located?
I'm Near Raleigh myself.
We are just outside of High Point,
Is the disc really the best item to check square? Would a saw blade be better?
Did you happen to catch today’s follow up video to this one? That was the most popular question. Scott
I would have an urge to jig an angle grinder to the miter and machine that sanding disc flat, imagine the feel of a perfectly smooth flat sanding disc during use.
There are flat reference plates available for just that purpose. Unfortunately, these steel discs will not remain flat because of the way they are attached to the arbor and due to their thickness.
@@MyGrowthRings you mean when the set screws are tightened it warps the disc? That reminds me of how you want to have the blade clamped into a hand plane when you flatten the base because of the warping. Perhaps if it is in place and spinning when you do the flattening, it would be fine as long as the set screws are torqed the same each time?
@@chrishoesing5455 Yes, when it is spinning at 1000rpms it is flat. At rest it will likely be slightly warped. If the goal is to have a perfectly flat reference point you are better off working with something thicker and yes, if would be ideal to have that reference machined flat. The method I used of finding the high point then Turing 90 degs from that gives me a surface that is square enough from the table for woodworking tolerances.
Could the same procedure be done using a Shopsmith lathe face plate as a reference?
I suppose that it could. A 6” faceplate would give you as large reference surface,
@@MyGrowthRings My question is the face plate as flat, and/or more or less flat than the sanding disk? I'll have to check that out tonight.
@@chadnevels246 It’s a very good question. I’m not sure.
how do you get the tabletop itself adjusted to the blade?
Now THAT'S the question! Do you have a manual? It walks you thought the steps, which mostly center upon loosening the table top from the trunnions below and pivoting the table until the miter slots run parallel to the blade. It's not difficult, but it can be time consuming and a little nerve-wracking. Scott
Do the saw blades tend to warp less than the sanding disk? If so, then we should use a saw blade to set the 90 degree table stop. I seem to recall the owners' manual recommends using the saw blade when doing all the setup and alignments. jim
It depends upon what generation of the owners manual you have. They used to recommend using a Sawblade but over concerns of safety and the potential damage of carbide teeth, and the additional accuracy that you get with the larger diameter of the disc, SS switched to recommending the use of the sanding disc at some point in the late 80s, I believe.
@@MyGrowthRings The manual I followed for a 500 to 510 upgrade is dated 12/92 in which they use an old style blade.
@@jamespowell9757 Must have been the late 90’s. It’s all a blur!
I'm not an engineer. All 3 of my sanding disks are warped. :( It seems to me you are taking an average of the warp on the disk to set the scale to 90. Is that good enough for the finished project? Would it be best to check a sanded piece to square and then set the scale to 90? I'm wondering if I will get the same result from each of my disks and especially the saw blade. I have MK V, 1978.
That’s an interesting thought and not a bad concern. You can put your mind to these by bringing the sanding disc up through the table slot and checking with your square on both left and right sides of the disc. I’ll show that in the follow up video. Scott
Of course, you won’t be able to do that with a sanding disc on your model, but you could check it with a sawblade.
That’s how I do it. I also do most of my disk sanding that way so I can use the dust collector.
I was in your head? Should I take that as a complement...?
I think my current 1956 ShopSmith Mark V 500 is easier to set (or re-set) than that.
It is, but that’s about the only advantage!
Sorry, I had to say it.
That is table not tanker
I hate you for that scrapping noise!