There's no reason to feel you need to delay your Genesis reviews (next song excluded). Don't let haters bully you. As in many things in life the complainers will always make the most noise. But, they are not necessarily the consensus. Besides if they despise Genesis so much they can skip that reaction. I mean unless your opinion is all they have to live for.
This is one of their best 80s era song, hands down. Those beginning chords so bombastic ! Tony's keyboards almost sounds like 50 people playing at once.
Totally agree. The "clanking" keyboard sound gives it that darker, extinction feel. The answer to the Lurker riddle at the end is a "submarine." the riddle's name is a B-side instrumental which should've followed this song on the album, but does in a special release of three songs called "The Dodo Suite."
I have said for years that the opening jam of Dodo/Lurker is one of Genesis' greatest grooves and I cannot believe that it has never been sampled or remixed! It's so killer!!
This song was originally planned to be in a suite suite with two other songs that ended up as b-sides: Naminanu and Submarine. I think the answer to the riddle lies in the second song; a submarine. 'Clothes of brass' = the exterior of a submarine, 'Seldom need to breathe, don't need no wings to fly' = it's able to stay underwater for long periods of time and doesn't need wings to move in the water, 'a heart of stone' could be the core of a ship, possibly nuclear?, 'and a fear of fire and water' = both things that would be catastrophic in a submarine. I heard someone mention this years ago and haven't been able to think of anything better!
I've always thought the riddle is a piranha. "Clothes of brass" - a school of fish, "hair of brown" - they can sometimes have a rust or brownish look. "Seldom need to breathe, don't need no wings to fly" - describing a fish. "Heart of stone" - a predator. "Fear of fire and water" - well, you can cook fish, so...
I don't think there was ever any point Genesis felt like they needed to "appease" their fans with their music. They matured as people, evolved, found their niche, and always produced quality, no matter to whose liking.
So weird, I could never get Genesis. However, I’m feeling it more. They have much more dynamics than I gave them a chance to show. It’s all your fault JP! :-)
No, it proves that Genesis included one or two extended-length pop songs per album hoping to get their old-time fans to THINK they never left their prog tendencies. There is absolutely nothing progressive or ground breaking in this song. It’s a great pop/rock track, and I really like it, but it’s not progressive.
The record starts off with the title track, which I call “the right hook”. Side 2 starts out with this, which I like to call “the left hook”. Just fantastically jarring, sonically, compared to everything before. I love this record.
Hi Justin. Great review. The way this song is structured, the strange and mysterious lyrics, the surrealism of it reminds me a bit of Hogweed and those earlier eccentric tracks. That eccentricity still exists in the band although they are becoming more pop and excessive to a wider audience. The next track Who Diunnit? is probably the weirdest and most perverse song they ever did. To me its an obvious wind up and not to be taken seriously but its going to be interesting to see your response. In an interview Tony says he loved the perverseness of it and it drove everyone crazy and they decided to add it to the album. Although they are morphing into a pop rock band they are still pushing the boundaries and as each album comes you have no idea what you will get. I like that. CHEERS Gerald Newton
This transition of Genesis from a strictly intellectual progressive rock band into a pop rock band has obviously been very hard to digest and accept by a great deal of Genesis fans. I lived through it and experienced this transition. As I have got older I have realized nostalgia is great but times change, people change and these remaining members had grown up. They wanted to try new things and they knew they had to change to survive. If they had continued in strictly progressive rock they would not of achieved the fame and yes the fortune they gained. I am not saying they sold out. They were being true to themselves and doing what they wanted to do. They were still very unique for the 80's and there were no other bands quite like them. Everyone is entitled to there own opinions and tastes but over the years I have noticed particularly with Genesis there is a lot of what I would call progressive music snobbery and a reluctance and denial of change and all art forms have to change to progress and stay creative, relevant. Gerald Newton
I agree they had to change but for me most of the 80s-90s Genesis after Duke hasn’t held up over time anywhere near as well as the Gabriel/Hackett albums. I really liked this album in 1981. Now, not so much. It’s not bad. It’s just not great, to my ears. To each their own though. I know a lot of people love the 80s-90s Genesis the most. More power to them.
@@justintime42000 Hi Cathy. Thanks for your comments. I know what you mean but their later albums sold far more cumulating with Invisible Touch which is their best selling album and had a number 1 hit in the USA. In fact the entire album is almost a hit fest. So commercially they were very popular but in creativity and musical terms of course they cannot be compared to their earlier albums which were phenomenal. They had a tendency of leaving certain tracks off their later albums which in my opinion were better than some of their album tracks. For instance if they had included the Dodo Suite and dropped Who Dunnit? and Like it or not maybe included You might recall for me that would make Abacab a far better album. In fact they had so much material for the Abacab album it could of been a double album. It seems it was all about keeping things rather straightforward and emphasizing hooks. They started to sound repetitive because they would not break things up, adding instrumental parts and going off in all kinds of directions which they once did which made their old songs fascinating and mind-blowing. But for a wider audience that is not palatable. Its too complicated for most who prefer an instant catchy hook, a straightforward song structure. I myself prefer to be challenged and be taken on a journey and they did not do enough of that unfortunately in their later albums. THANKS Gerald Newton
@@geraldnewton9675 Thanks for your reply. I agree with most of what you said, but one of the biggest differences between the earlier Genesis and later Genesis (and the record sales) was getting lots of radio play which gave them mass exposure, as well as video play. Bands like Yes were able to get on AM radio with a shortened version of Roundabout, so it’s not entirely that some of the more melodic and shorter, accessible prog songs of early Genesis weren’t palatable to the masses but rather that for whatever reason (most likely money), the earlier music didn’t get played in the US except on late night or college radio in just a few East coast radio markets. A song like “Carpet Crawlers” comes to mind as an instantly likable song that doesn’t ask much of the listener, as well as TLLDOB, Ripples, Afterglow, ATOTT, and more. Jethro Tull and ELP got a lot of FM radio play in the 1970s without ever being overly commercial. So it’s not that the tastes of the masses that changed so much as the trends changed to become less complicated and more fun. But Genesis missing out on getting radio play in the 70s (until Follow You, Follow Me) is why most of the masses didn’t get a chance to hear them in their prime prog years. Perhaps if they’d been on a big label it would have made all the difference.
@@justintime42000 Hi Cathy. Thanks for your comments. You may be correct but I can only talk from my own experiences when I got to an age I took a serious interest in rock and popular music in the mid to late seventies. Remembering my friends and those around me who were heavily into very straight forward and fashionable groups, chart music at that time. It was not until I went to art college and discovered fellow Genesis, Yes, progressive rock group fanatic's such as myself. For these bands the main emphasis at the time was on the albums and most of my fellow progressive rock friends were not interested in singles. You mentioned Carpet Crawlers and Ripples as examples. Very beautiful songs but still complexed and bizarre lyrically. A lot for the masses to digest. Its not just about having a lovely catchy tune but the lyrical content. I remember playing Your own Special Way in my music class at school and all my friends thought it was weird and they did not like it. Some of those friends later became big Genesis fans when songs such as Abacab, Mama were released. They could sort of relate to the lyrics and the overall sound. As time as gone on people on the whole have become less and less willing to give complexed structured songs a listen. It has to be instant. And today we have these first listen reaction channels and its incredible how so many younger people listen to Genesis 80's songs such as Abacab for instance and think its an amazing complexed track. CHEERS Gerald Newton
@@geraldnewton9675 Jethro Tull were complex and bizarre, as were Yes and ELP, and they had many songs on the radio. The longer epics didn’t get on commercial radio, but were played on some college radio stations. What these bands all had going for them was a major record label that put money into promoting them. The 1960s and 1970s radio/concert audiences were generally more sophisticated than later audiences. There were plenty of middle of the road rock songs/artists and bands in the early 1970s along with these prog bands, but they all had a home on FM radio. All it took in the 70s was radio and/or TV exposure to reach an audience and Genesis didn’t get much mass exposure until they went to Atlantic Records. Had they had such a contract with a big label much earlier things could very likely have been different. Peter Gabriel was on Atlantic and his solo singles went right to commercial radio. Pink Floyd started doing well when they got on commercial radio. Before 1973 and Dark Side, they were pretty obscure. I’d have to look up who their label(s) was/were, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they made a change before Dark Side came out. I’m a big fan of Renaissance and they had the same issues with a small label and no promotion except their Carnegie Hall album but they also didn’t have many short enough songs for the radio. It’s sad that radio has deteriorated into such a corporate owned mess. It truly used to be great.
The songs off this album in a live setting were far better than the album versions . Apart from No Reply which was played live without the horn section. This particular song was the first time anyone saw the Vari-lights in action. There was an audible gasp from the audience when the lights moved and changed colour !!!
I was absolutely shocked at the first gig on the tour.....coming off over 20 shows on the previous tour which lighting wise was very much parred down......
Back in the days when Genesis thought this was going to be another prog album this track was part of a much longer suite: Naminanu-Dodo-Lurker-Submarine. When they decided to go a poppier route the suite was split up, but Submarine, which originally followed the riddle in Lurker, was thought to be the answer.
I'm glad they scrapped the suite because "Naminu" and "Submarine" are some of the most boring pieces they ever wrote. As always, they kept the good stuff.
SPOILER The answer to the riddle is ''submarine''-which was a b side during this era, and was ment to be part of this suite,along with another track 'Namanimu''
Mike Rutherford's "Acting Very Strange" album is well worth a listen to and there is some more similarity to The Police there .... given the fact that "Stewart Copeland" is the drummer on that album .
Phil was SO influential in my drumming. 👍🏻👍🏻 This is possibly (together with Abacab live) my favorite of the trio. Big music coming out of only 3 individuals. Amazing.
This is one of the few songs I like from after Peter left, of which there are maybe 10-15. My first drum teacher really, really focused on HOW I was hitting the drum, and he pointed out that how you attack the drum is an underrated part of creating a feel. So he went over certain techniques that really get the drums to ring out. In this song, you hear Phil's command over getting the exact tone, through attack, that he wants from the kit. You can almost hear the air parting, as the drum stick cuts through, right before the sharp CRACK of the snare. It's a sound not a lot of drummers were able to get, and Phil is easily one of the best at it. This track shows a real confidence in moving towards their new sound. I like Squonk as well, but I think this song identifies itself stronger. Like the ideas started in Squonk fully realized and epitomized in this track. I was excited for you to review this, considering it's one of the few I like during this era, and it's fantastic to hear someone else to see the greatness of this song! As always, your channel is great, thanks!
You have a smart drum teacher.😂. As a drummer that is one of the things that I really loved about Phil Collins drumming is his attack. Just think about how his drum fill on in the air tonight is arguably the most famous drum fill of all time.
@@richierich398 Exactly. I saw a clip of him sound checking, and just the way he did a roll around the drum kit stood out. He's also extremely artistic in how he plays. One of the best at knowing when to keep it simple, and when to just let loose, and sounds amazing at both. I think my 100% favorite is his drumming on Lamb Lies Down, I've never heard anything like it. Cheers man!
This is typical modern Genesis. Their albums contained mixture of genres. Sometimes prog, sometimes pop, sometimes a bit of jazz, and sometimes a bit of r&b. They keep you guessing. And they keep changing. And that’s why they managed such longevity.
They usually had one 'prog' Song on each album and they are quite good. This, 'Home by the sea/Second home by the sea' and 'Driving the last spike' being my favourites.
One of the disappointing parts of the next self-titled record is home by the sea, second home. Weakest prog song attempt last few records. Dodo/Lurker miles and miles better. Domino better. Fading Lights also better.
"Where does he go / what does he do?" In Dodo, he has a dream of love as big as the ocean. In Me and Sarah Jane, he invents a name. In Keep It Dark, he has seen a world full of people, their hearts full of joy. In all three songs, there is a "dreaminess" and a dash of utopianism. Incredible production on this track as you can clearly hear all the major instruments.
First of all, the answer to the riddle is a submarine. At least this is the popular consensus. A fear of fire and water is every submariner's nightmare. Water flooding the boat or fire on a boat is about the worst things that can happen. Seldom need to breathe can be taken as a submarine can stay beneath the waves for an extremely long time but will occasionally have to rise to bring in fresh air. Now, the song itself: Hands down the best two tracks on the album. And it they were originally part of a much longer suite: "Naminanu / Dodo / Lurker / Submarine". It goes to show, even at this point, Genesis were still not through with progressive rock. I could tell by your face that you were enjoying this, right from the get go! 😄❤ Great reaction!
When Genesis songs weave in and out of different sections they're at their best. When they turn to verse/chorus pop songs (while good at times) I'm less invested. This song along with Me and Sarah Jane best represent the Genesis I love
In my opinion it's a ton more since the drums actually started to get recorded well. Even Phil grew up knowing trying to play fast jazzy fills is kind of pointless and what you do in Genesis when the sound of the drums is terrible as they were until 1981, but the really busy jazzy drumming seems to be impressive to some. This is one of the few songs I like Chester's reworking of the drums though.
Justin, just come back from seeing Genesis... Bloody awesome butty.. Highlights Duchess.. Firth of gifth instrumental, and the superb Carpet Crawlers.. 😊 ❤️🎶🎶. If uou have chance to dee them... Go, just go Justin.. What a show my friend
Jusin you have listened to so much Genesis but not LIVE Gensis! You are missing out big time man, live Genesis is Levels beyond studio Genesis and I'm not just trying to sell you on it believe me. If I was to make a recommendation check out the "Three Sides Live" Album.
Dodo is awesome! You should check out the Dodo Suite on the Genesis Central channel, because it’s simply awesome. Reeeally looking forward to what you’ll think of Who Dunnit?, which is up next on the album :)
"Best of both worlds." Couldn't agree more, Justin. Dodo/Lurker are easily the strongest tracks off of the album. 1981 me loved the hell out of it, and 2021 me continues to enjoy it. I consider myself to be a Genesis fanatic, but as I age, my priorities have shifted. Buying tickets to the Buffalo show this coming November was NOT the automatic decision that it would have been decades before. But because of the influence that the band was to the soundtrack of my life, I decided to treat myself one more time to check them out one last time while it was still possible. That said, if they can put on a show worthy of attendance, I can do my part and show up. ;-) Strangely enough, for all of the years that I have listened to the album, I never really paid that much scrutiny to the lyrics. Who knew that Lurker ended with a riddle? I was too busy basking in the afterglow (saw what I did there) of Dodo to pay that much attention. Coming Up: arguably one of the most divisive tracks in the Genesis discography. Here's a pro-tip - invest heavily in popcorn stocks. Thanks for the reaction and upload, Justin.
You need to check out the live versions of Dodo ..3 sides live & any other bootlegs from this era!...they opened the show with it too!!! I love it for an opener!!! .it's HUGE!!
I read the 76 posted comments (my time)... And sometimes, I wander if (as I can go into this for decades because I am a huge fan) if people who loves Genesis does not over explain the meaning of the things. ---> The "Abacab Suite"... supposed to be designed in advance... Remember guys : the writing process of the band was : 1) bits from one of the members 2) pieces improvised by the band. And always : lyrics wrote in the last phase of the created process. In my opinion, thinking about a plan which would be... planned involving the aborted tracks, as if the whole thing was a part of a story... well, I see it as... conspiracy. Those who think like that seem to me doing some "retro-enginering" , putting all the pieces as they like it would match in their mind... The answer to the riddle ? I think there is no answer at all. JP, you are no involved in the Beatles listening. To me, it's just the same as The Walrus. A bit of meat threw to the pack, to give them something to play with...
Agree, Phil's drumming is solid (especially love it during the reprise of the opening section). Tony's lyrics for "Dodo" remind me at certain times of The Beatles' "Come Together"
Back in the 1980s, when I was a teenager, I thought Phil was singing 'Darth Vader, agitator, keeps asking questions; says he wants to know why.' Obviously, the cassettes we had back then didn't have lyric sheets, and we were fortunate whenever they would have liner notes at all! That's why I didn't even know that Steve Hackett was a member of the band until a few years later! Also, I remember from around 1994 and onward there was a Genesis mailing list called 'Paperlate.' At one point, there was a thread going around in which everyone was trying to guess the answer to Tony Banks' riddle. I remember that 'a rifle' was a popular answer. Then others would respond to disprove the answers which were given.
You weren't the only one to hear "Darth Vader". Before a concert in '82 a girl in front of me said, "I hope they play 'Paperplate'" to me. She said it so innocently and adorably I could only nod.
Very nice pair of songs. I really like the intensity of the various parts, drums/bass/keys. The spoken intro to 'Lurker' always makes me think of Frank Zappa.
I hope you're ready for the next song which is quite possibly the greatest track the band has ever done, dare I say it's the greatest track ever released in general?
This song is one of the last vestiges - I suspect, at least - of Banks bringing in something to the studio more developed and the other two really buying into it. It is pure prog, but funkified for the 80s. Also, the layering and texturing is deep. You even get tubular bells toward the end like a well-orchestrated composition.
Definitely best song on the album. Then nothing absolutely exceptionally great from them until "Fading Lights" the last song on their last album written by Tony Banks. To me it sounds like his swan song to Genesis. A phenomenal song. A great song to end it all with. This song was great live. It's on the "Three sides Live" album.
@@remokrstan5 No i didn't miss Home by the Sea. That song is too repetitive. That's just my opinion. I like some of their song's in between but none I'd call classic Genesis.
@@remokrstan5 2nd home by the sea is fucking insane as it,s all instrumental with acombination of drumming/syth with som of the best synthasizer solo that i hav ever heard in my life
@@bigjapi1 Their,s another great1on their called Roll and roller. It takes agood minit before it actaully kicks but when it does it beautiful it really is
@@Katehowe3010 You're right. JP, please do as you're told. You don't want to be called names if you don't explore all other music before you enjoy discovering Genesis. Including a healthy smattering of Krautrock.
@@Katehowe3010 Have you heard Calling all Stations? Ray Wilson is a gem. He has a new album coming I think in September. He plays with some amazing musicians. Ali Ferguson on guitar is amazing. I am looking forward to it.
It was actually edited from a much longer piece that had the other parts released on a boxed set, Submarine and NamuNanu. ua-cam.com/video/tPu5VPA3CR0/v-deo.html You might want to consider interrupting the flow of the album to make this point and react to it, since you are at eh Dodo/Lurker segment anyway? Of course that is up to you.
I love ACABAB. I saw them Live perform songs from this too. It's stripped down but not too much and is still Prog at this point. And this song is GREAT, GROOVY, FUN/FUNKY and DYNAMIC with a wonderful story!!!! GREAT SONG!!! MY LAST FAVORITE ALBUM BY THEM. The LURKER is really COOOOOOOOL
This album shows that the band has the Power of a Hard Rock/Death Metal Band, even more powerful, especially Dodo. Although I always thought that if one song should be left in the universe to summerize Genesis, like if some sort of illegal Aliens would come across that song, it would be "Me And Sarah Jane". This T. BANKS song contains everything Genesis is about since they've started until 1991.
Justin, have you ever heard the Mommyheads? Legendary cult art-pop band, active 1980s-present, influenced by the likes of XTC, James Brown, and Genesis (the Genesis influence really popped out to me on their newest album!) A couple tracks to try: "Needmore, Pennsylvania", "Cactus Farm", "Saints Preserve Us"
Phil Collins said ABACAB was a break from their past. This whole album needs to be played loud! Lurker is about a submarine. As you can tell I'm a HUGE Genesis fan. Thanks for this video!!
@@colecomatt lol that's for sure.. I useto think he was saying "Was it you are was it me or was it ecstasy" Took me years to read the lyrics it's x or z. Just like this song when I thought they said Darth Vader and not Dog baiter. Lol
I like this song just fine, I think many fans do, it's more experimental than the rest. And their pop songs are of good quality, I always liked Phil's heartfelt ballads, it's the novelty songs I don't care for: 'Who Dunnit? on this one and 'Illegal Alien' on the 1983 self-titled album. They had better songs on the "3x3" EP and studio side of "Three Sides Live", 'Open Door' and 'Evidence of Autumn' were leftovers from "Duke".
...its staggering to watch how quickly and openly you listened to the changes the band made to their sound... I heard most of their albums (since Nursery Crime) just after their launch, and it took me a bit longer, although I never 'hated' anything they did - for that I was too much of a fan (Genesis were my number 1 through the whole 70s decade!)... I realized that its okay to swing my toes (or more) and have a broad smile in my face, when listening to them... they discovered physicality and fun, not least due to Phil, the great transformer... he brought already a lot of Jazz to the drumming sound of the band (loved his input on Brand X!).. I hold Abacab quite high within their later albums, even higher than Duke (to me still rather a Phil Collins & Friends album)... and I so much felt they deserve to finally have some more revenue... they just about made ends meet through the 70s... its become a very enjoyable album, once I'd thrown out my expectations, set by the past! xx PS. Justin - you're so much 'down-my-alley' with your reviews, and you always add something, that I haven't yet seen, or phrased like the way you do... its highly entertaining and educating to listen to your reflections, always!
Back in the mid 80's, I saw them play a Summer concert at the old CNE Stadium in Toronto during the National Exhibition Festival. They opened the show with Dodo/Lurker. It was great.
As probably others mentioned, this track was initially supposed to be a medley with other 2 tracks: Submarine and Naminanu (I think you already heard the first). If I remember correctly the right play order would be: Naminanu, Dodo/Lurker and Submarine.
Yeah this is definitely the only real good song on the album tbh. I do love the self titled "Shapes" album (aside from the very problematic Illegal Alien), but to me We Can't Dance is their peak pop-prog album. Genuinely amazing from start to finish. Driving the Last Spike makes me cry every time, and Fading Lights makes me think of my parents.
I had just been enjoying their commercial hits off Duke and Abacab in high school when I got this album. I heard Dodo/Lurker, and discovered my first real prog Genesis. My friend turned me on to Supper's Ready and I never looked back! The same friend soon turned me on to King Crimson and the Discipline album.
For some reason, I've never quite gotten into these tracks from Genesis. I absolutely love tracks like Squonk as well as stuff like Misunderstanding and Turn It On Again. I do like Abacab Man On The Corner from this album.
Keep it Dark is my favorite song on this album. Although it may be the singular song I prefer the studio version from Genesis. Dodo/Lurker is amazing on 3 Sides Live. In general people are resistant to change. I think Genesis showed their versatility by changing and kept making amazing music.
10:14 There's a simple reason behind why Phil's drumming draws attention and it's called syncopation (the essence of good musicanship). In simple terms: it's accenting notes that listener doesn't expect to be accented. It comes with different flavours but here is its most popular version accenting the upbeat (here)with hihat. Notice that your head starts go up everytime stressed hihat hits, that makes all the work in rhythmic domain of this song. Maybe that's the reason why people tend to perceive the song as pop (though proggresive) since you can find this kind of syncopation in 70's - 80's disco. If I may recomennd some more prog rock stuff: ua-cam.com/video/iq2WKo5s8e8/v-deo.html - title song especially but whole album is worth listening (great outro guitar solo in Trójkąt Radości and in title track).
Riddle answer- Submarine. Clothes of brass- subs made outta metal Hair of brown- seaweed gets stuck to sub Seldom need to breathe- subs don’t need to come up for air Don’t need no word wings to fly- does it’s flying underwater And a heart of stone- mmm not sure about this one if I’m honest And a fear of fire & water who am I- the 2 deadliest things for a sub.. fire n water. Just a sidenote JP- it would be a shame if you missed out on a b-side song from this era called ‘You Might Recall’. Especially when you hear what’s coming next... You might recall is regarded by many fans as a fantastic tune & the album would’ve benefited greatly from its inclusion.
This is one of my all time favourite Genesis tracks. Originally the album contained no lyric sheet. It was only in the CD release that lyrics were included... I always thought the second line said "Dark "O" with "VER" on it's side" i.e. extinct. For me, Abacab up to this point is a fine album but it's after this track where the rot sets in.
For everyone that says Genesis sold out, did anyone ever think that maybe they just evolved? If you like the Gabriel era, more power to you! I think they are both great. So sick of the folks that act like boomers with the whole “back in my day” crap. Genesis is amazing no matter the era. Oh and Gabriel’s only number one hit during his solo career was Sledgehammer. Is Sledgehammer considered a Prog song?
Not being the Genesis albums that I like the most, I have a special affection for being the band's first album I bought. This track, along with the initial track, that gives the album its name, are for me, the best on the album, which by the way, is not at all, the most inspired work of the band. However, there are two tracks in particular that I also really like, (No Reply at All and My and Sarah Jane) that bring back very good memories of my teenage years.😊
for all the prog rock whiners out there, please tell me what prog rock band of the 70s remained prog throughout the 90s? For all the Peter Gabriel "purists" you're going to tell me So, Us and Up are prog rock? They're pop. Good pop, but pop
I thought the way Phil spoke the rhythm of the words before the synth solo and the solo itself was very reminiscent of “I Know What I Like.” Listen to these passages again with this idea in mind and see what you think! It really jumped out at me, and I don’t think I felt it before now. I can’t remember if I thought this before, so it make no difference. I can’t say I really like the whole song beginning to end but parts of it are very good. I haven’t listened to it in ages. I remembered the duck walk synth part though, right before it came on. I’m glad you liked it. When this album came out in 1981 I couldn’t get enough of it. It’s cool. Maybe a little too bombastic, like it’s trying too hard to hit you over the head. Some of the chords sound great. In 40 years I can’t ask you how it held up for you over time. I only know it’s not as good for me now compared to 1981.
Hi JP thanks for askin,yes its a wonderful sunday sunny day. It. Begins very good ti listenin with you my favorite song on that album. The most prog rock song on that album, have a wonderful day Justin.
In the middle of Genesis pop music era they put out a progressive track like this. Brings back memories of playing drums to this when I was in high school. You’re right, this would fit well with Duke.
Justin, Ignore the haters, there are lots of great Genesis tracks post Duke. It’s been a while since I listened to Dodo/Lurker I forgot how good it is. When I listen to the Album this is normally as far as I get, as the remainder is below par. Just grabbing a bag of popcorn for your reaction to the next track :) I still can’t believe they put Whodunnit on the Album when they had recorded, Paperlate at the same time, which was released as a EP the following year.
If it wasn't for the edit version of Abacab, perfect single full of energy (whereas the album version starts to get slightly boring in the second instrumental part), I'd say Dodo/Lurker is the best song on the album
And there it is..hands down my favorite track on the album...and you hit the nail on the head, it's a throwback to fans of prog Genesis to allow them to move forward. Absolutely spectacular!!
Which member of Genesis thought reggae was the answer? Mike Rutherford, I bet he's responsible. Reggae has no business in Prog and middle class public schoolboys should leave well alone.
It's definitely a mix of 70s and 80s approaches. The opening chords are reminiscent of Watcher Of The Skies, but then it goes into reggae and synthpop segments, which are cool but not fully integrated into the track. If Steve Hackett was still with them it could have been developed into something pretty good. I'm afraid they still sound like half a band to me until they fully reinvented themselves as a sophisticated synthpop trio on Invisible Touch, which also suits Phil's lighter voice better. I don't think he really had the resonance and heft for this sort of thing by this stage.
I am aware of the submarine solution but I think the answer to the Lurker riddle might actually be The EWF Phenix Horns. I suspect that the Lurker keyboard solo which has a brass horn sounding tone was originally intended to be a brass solo. That horn section was involved in several of their tracks at that time.
First of all, please don't apologize for playing more Genesis... especially this, one of the very best. Great analysis -- you're so right about the partnership between Mike and Tony as they create the harmonic environment that Phil sings in. And also how they were exploring reggae rhythms in a rock context, like the Police had done. This song is also a killer live. Chester is just an absolute beast behind the kit.
I agree this is probably the best track on this album, but it's not as good as Deep In The Motherlode, or Duchess for that matter. I get that they were experimenting on these albums after Hackett left, and I'm certain they picked the best songs they had for this album, but can you imagine what the rest was like? I remain a Genesis fan today, and I bought all their albums, even Calling All Stations, but I was not impressed by the Album Abacab.
saw them in 1982- they opened with this song...stage was dark, and then on the downbeat the stage was lit up all in "blue"...really strong opening for the nite...
There is a new video by a Genesis fan - it explains the Riddle, but more importantly, it puts together the entire unreleased "Dodo Suite"! ua-cam.com/video/G6RxdnvwbRY/v-deo.html
It's long and it's weird and it's good, but is it prog? I don't know. I've yet to come up with a definition of prog that satisfies me. But it doesn't come near to inspiring me like prog-era Genesis. It's not even my favorite song on this album. It's probably third after Abacab and Man on the Corner.
Once again, great ears/observation. Yes, I see the opening fat synth chords very reminiscent of And Then there were three. Could easily fit on that album. We are currently covering this one and it's one of my fav's in out set. Especially with the Taurus pedals doubling the bass.
Can you imagine how awesomely old-school Genesis this would have sounded with Peter singing? As mentioned below this was originally going to be part of a suite. If you look around on YT you can find folks who have re-created what it might have sounded like.
The answer to the riddle to me is a submarine. Dodo/Lurker was originally part of a suite. Starting with a track called Naminanu then on to Dodo/Lurker then Submarine. The riddle alludes to the last track in the suit. Hair of brown= seaweed, clothes of brass = nuclear submarines are made of brass, fear of fire and water = nuclear melt down or sinking, heart of stone = the nuclear reactor, no wings to fly = a submarine “flies” under water.
It was this song that led one rock critic to call Genesis, 'music that only your middle school math teacher would like'. I remember back in the Eighties the intro music was used for Battle of the Brains TV show on PBS.
There's no reason to feel you need to delay your Genesis reviews (next song excluded). Don't let haters bully you. As in many things in life the complainers will always make the most noise. But, they are not necessarily the consensus. Besides if they despise Genesis so much they can skip that reaction. I mean unless your opinion is all they have to live for.
“…next song excluded.”
And there it is. 😆
To be fair, I can certainly understand where the sentiment comes from.
This is one of their best 80s era song, hands down. Those beginning chords so bombastic ! Tony's keyboards almost sounds like 50 people playing at once.
My favorite off the album
Totally agree. The "clanking" keyboard sound gives it that darker, extinction feel.
The answer to the Lurker riddle at the end is a "submarine."
the riddle's name is a B-side instrumental which should've followed this song on the album, but does in a special release of three songs called "The Dodo Suite."
@@gynandroidhead I've heard NUMEROUS answers to the riddle. Banks is on record saying that there is no answer.
@@rbailey1240 Yes, I've heard him in interview answering that way - but I feel he was bs-ing or forgetting.
I have said for years that the opening jam of Dodo/Lurker is one of Genesis' greatest grooves and I cannot believe that it has never been sampled or remixed! It's so killer!!
Not the intro but still ua-cam.com/video/JW_2zNcsAWI/v-deo.html
The joy on your face as you listen to yet another "new" Genesis song... It's infectious! Hope it lasts all day, Buddy! ;-]
...and so laid Back....
Haha I'm always excited to listen to them :D Ty
This song was originally planned to be in a suite suite with two other songs that ended up as b-sides: Naminanu and Submarine. I think the answer to the riddle lies in the second song; a submarine.
'Clothes of brass' = the exterior of a submarine, 'Seldom need to breathe, don't need no wings to fly' = it's able to stay underwater for long periods of time and doesn't need wings to move in the water, 'a heart of stone' could be the core of a ship, possibly nuclear?, 'and a fear of fire and water' = both things that would be catastrophic in a submarine.
I heard someone mention this years ago and haven't been able to think of anything better!
Exactly. Hopefully Justin gives it a listen.
ua-cam.com/video/w4Y5OQhYt48/v-deo.html
I believe the "suite" order was Naminanu/Dodo/Lurker/Submarine. Great stuff!
I've always thought the riddle is a piranha. "Clothes of brass" - a school of fish, "hair of brown" - they can sometimes have a rust or brownish look. "Seldom need to breathe, don't need no wings to fly" - describing a fish. "Heart of stone" - a predator. "Fear of fire and water" - well, you can cook fish, so...
@@MattLathrum It's very definitely a submarine & has been confirmed by band members over the years.
@@wilcox660 It made sense to me at the time! 😁 I didn't know about the submarine thing until many years later.
I don't think there was ever any point Genesis felt like they needed to "appease" their fans with their music. They matured as people, evolved, found their niche, and always produced quality, no matter to whose liking.
So weird, I could never get Genesis. However, I’m feeling it more. They have much more dynamics than I gave them a chance to show. It’s all your fault JP! :-)
This song proves genesis never left their prog tendencies behind
No, it proves that Genesis included one or two extended-length pop songs per album hoping to get their old-time fans to THINK they never left their prog tendencies. There is absolutely nothing progressive or ground breaking in this song. It’s a great pop/rock track, and I really like it, but it’s not progressive.
@@souldreamer9056 absolutely correct
@@souldreamer9056 It IS progressive. You're just a sour lurker.
@@SpaceCattttt or a dodo 🦤 😆
This album to me, is the final dying gasp of solid progressive music from Genesis.
The record starts off with the title track, which I call “the right hook”. Side 2 starts out with this, which I like to call “the left hook”. Just fantastically jarring, sonically, compared to everything before. I love this record.
Hi Justin. Great review. The way this song is structured, the strange and mysterious lyrics, the surrealism of it reminds me a bit of Hogweed and those earlier eccentric tracks. That eccentricity still exists in the band although they are becoming more pop and excessive to a wider audience. The next track Who Diunnit? is probably the weirdest and most perverse song they ever did. To me its an obvious wind up and not to be taken seriously but its going to be interesting to see your response. In an interview Tony says he loved the perverseness of it and it drove everyone crazy and they decided to add it to the album. Although they are morphing into a pop rock band they are still pushing the boundaries and as each album comes you have no idea what you will get. I like that. CHEERS Gerald Newton
This transition of Genesis from a strictly intellectual progressive rock band into a pop rock band has obviously been very hard to digest and accept by a great deal of Genesis fans. I lived through it and experienced this transition. As I have got older I have realized nostalgia is great but times change, people change and these remaining members had grown up. They wanted to try new things and they knew they had to change to survive. If they had continued in strictly progressive rock they would not of achieved the fame and yes the fortune they gained. I am not saying they sold out. They were being true to themselves and doing what they wanted to do. They were still very unique for the 80's and there were no other bands quite like them. Everyone is entitled to there own opinions and tastes but over the years I have noticed particularly with Genesis there is a lot of what I would call progressive music snobbery and a reluctance and denial of change and all art forms have to change to progress and stay creative, relevant. Gerald Newton
I agree they had to change but for me most of the 80s-90s Genesis after Duke hasn’t held up over time anywhere near as well as the Gabriel/Hackett albums. I really liked this album in 1981. Now, not so much. It’s not bad. It’s just not great, to my ears. To each their own though. I know a lot of people love the 80s-90s Genesis the most. More power to them.
@@justintime42000 Hi Cathy. Thanks for your comments. I know what you mean but their later albums sold far more cumulating with Invisible Touch which is their best selling album and had a number 1 hit in the USA. In fact the entire album is almost a hit fest. So commercially they were very popular but in creativity and musical terms of course they cannot be compared to their earlier albums which were phenomenal. They had a tendency of leaving certain tracks off their later albums which in my opinion were better than some of their album tracks. For instance if they had included the Dodo Suite and dropped Who Dunnit? and Like it or not maybe included You might recall for me that would make Abacab a far better album. In fact they had so much material for the Abacab album it could of been a double album. It seems it was all about keeping things rather straightforward and emphasizing hooks. They started to sound repetitive because they would not break things up, adding instrumental parts and going off in all kinds of directions which they once did which made their old songs fascinating and mind-blowing. But for a wider audience that is not palatable. Its too complicated for most who prefer an instant catchy hook, a straightforward song structure. I myself prefer to be challenged and be taken on a journey and they did not do enough of that unfortunately in their later albums. THANKS Gerald Newton
@@geraldnewton9675 Thanks for your reply. I agree with most of what you said, but one of the biggest differences between the earlier Genesis and later Genesis (and the record sales) was getting lots of radio play which gave them mass exposure, as well as video play. Bands like Yes were able to get on AM radio with a shortened version of Roundabout, so it’s not entirely that some of the more melodic and shorter, accessible prog songs of early Genesis weren’t palatable to the masses but rather that for whatever reason (most likely money), the earlier music didn’t get played in the US except on late night or college radio in just a few East coast radio markets. A song like “Carpet Crawlers” comes to mind as an instantly likable song that doesn’t ask much of the listener, as well as TLLDOB, Ripples, Afterglow, ATOTT, and more. Jethro Tull and ELP got a lot of FM radio play in the 1970s without ever being overly commercial. So it’s not that the tastes of the masses that changed so much as the trends changed to become less complicated and more fun. But Genesis missing out on getting radio play in the 70s (until Follow You, Follow Me) is why most of the masses didn’t get a chance to hear them in their prime prog years. Perhaps if they’d been on a big label it would have made all the difference.
@@justintime42000 Hi Cathy. Thanks for your comments. You may be correct but I can only talk from my own experiences when I got to an age I took a serious interest in rock and popular music in the mid to late seventies. Remembering my friends and those around me who were heavily into very straight forward and fashionable groups, chart music at that time. It was not until I went to art college and discovered fellow Genesis, Yes, progressive rock group fanatic's such as myself. For these bands the main emphasis at the time was on the albums and most of my fellow progressive rock friends were not interested in singles. You mentioned Carpet Crawlers and Ripples as examples. Very beautiful songs but still complexed and bizarre lyrically. A lot for the masses to digest. Its not just about having a lovely catchy tune but the lyrical content. I remember playing Your own Special Way in my music class at school and all my friends thought it was weird and they did not like it. Some of those friends later became big Genesis fans when songs such as Abacab, Mama were released. They could sort of relate to the lyrics and the overall sound. As time as gone on people on the whole have become less and less willing to give complexed structured songs a listen. It has to be instant. And today we have these first listen reaction channels and its incredible how so many younger people listen to Genesis 80's songs such as Abacab for instance and think its an amazing complexed track. CHEERS Gerald Newton
@@geraldnewton9675 Jethro Tull were complex and bizarre, as were Yes and ELP, and they had many songs on the radio. The longer epics didn’t get on commercial radio, but were played on some college radio stations. What these bands all had going for them was a major record label that put money into promoting them. The 1960s and 1970s radio/concert audiences were generally more sophisticated than later audiences. There were plenty of middle of the road rock songs/artists and bands in the early 1970s along with these prog bands, but they all had a home on FM radio. All it took in the 70s was radio and/or TV exposure to reach an audience and Genesis didn’t get much mass exposure until they went to Atlantic Records. Had they had such a contract with a big label much earlier things could very likely have been different. Peter Gabriel was on Atlantic and his solo singles went right to commercial radio. Pink Floyd started doing well when they got on commercial radio. Before 1973 and Dark Side, they were pretty obscure. I’d have to look up who their label(s) was/were, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they made a change before Dark Side came out. I’m a big fan of Renaissance and they had the same issues with a small label and no promotion except their Carnegie Hall album but they also didn’t have many short enough songs for the radio. It’s sad that radio has deteriorated into such a corporate owned mess. It truly used to be great.
One of underrated 80s Genesis songs and is one of my favourites. Best song on Abacab.
Totally
It isn't underrated in the slightest! Who doesn't like this song?
@@markrae1317 Many people hate this album. Personally, I love it.
@@nickavenoso7851 my rankings of Genesis albums can always change, but this could be in top 5
The songs off this album in a live setting were far better than the album versions . Apart from No Reply which was played live without the horn section.
This particular song was the first time anyone saw the Vari-lights in action. There was an audible gasp from the audience when the lights moved and changed colour !!!
I was absolutely shocked at the first gig on the tour.....coming off over 20 shows on the previous tour which lighting wise was very much parred down......
@@robertwells3867 I know exactly what you mean :)
Vari*Lite ftw! They were quite beautiful during In The Cage Medley and Whodunnit.
Who Dunnit (which I like) went on for too long live, though.
@@SpaceCattttt Mike Rutherford on drums with Chester in the live shows for Who Dunnit certainly made it more interesting 😁
Back in the days when Genesis thought this was going to be another prog album this track was part of a much longer suite: Naminanu-Dodo-Lurker-Submarine. When they decided to go a poppier route the suite was split up, but Submarine, which originally followed the riddle in Lurker, was thought to be the answer.
I'm glad they scrapped the suite because "Naminu" and "Submarine" are some of the most boring pieces they ever wrote. As always, they kept the good stuff.
I like both. Own the 45’s.
I believe someone on UA-cam strung these songs together in the suite. Too lazy to look for it right now =]
@@SpaceCattttt They couldn't be worse than Who Dunnit.
@@daneng3641 I like that song. Because I have a sense of humor.
The live version from Three Sides Live is great!
Superb!
I cannot hear the song without Phil's live inflections to his singing.
This one's better, but I like the Lurker keyboards on 3SL
3SL best version, no contest !!!
SPOILER
The answer to the riddle is ''submarine''-which was a b side during this era, and was ment to be part of this suite,along with another track 'Namanimu''
The feeling I get from this song is that mankind makes themselves extinct. Beautiful blend of horror and comedy. One of their best.
Mike Rutherford's "Acting Very Strange" album is well worth a listen to and there is some more similarity to The Police there .... given the fact that "Stewart Copeland" is the drummer on that album .
Phil was SO influential in my drumming. 👍🏻👍🏻
This is possibly (together with Abacab live) my favorite of the trio. Big music coming out of only 3 individuals. Amazing.
This is one of the few songs I like from after Peter left, of which there are maybe 10-15.
My first drum teacher really, really focused on HOW I was hitting the drum, and he pointed out that how you attack the drum is an underrated part of creating a feel. So he went over certain techniques that really get the drums to ring out.
In this song, you hear Phil's command over getting the exact tone, through attack, that he wants from the kit. You can almost hear the air parting, as the drum stick cuts through, right before the sharp CRACK of the snare. It's a sound not a lot of drummers were able to get, and Phil is easily one of the best at it.
This track shows a real confidence in moving towards their new sound. I like Squonk as well, but I think this song identifies itself stronger. Like the ideas started in Squonk fully realized and epitomized in this track.
I was excited for you to review this, considering it's one of the few I like during this era, and it's fantastic to hear someone else to see the greatness of this song!
As always, your channel is great, thanks!
You have a smart drum teacher.😂. As a drummer that is one of the things that I really loved about Phil Collins drumming is his attack. Just think about how his drum fill on in the air tonight is arguably the most famous drum fill of all time.
@@richierich398 Exactly. I saw a clip of him sound checking, and just the way he did a roll around the drum kit stood out.
He's also extremely artistic in how he plays. One of the best at knowing when to keep it simple, and when to just let loose, and sounds amazing at both.
I think my 100% favorite is his drumming on Lamb Lies Down, I've never heard anything like it.
Cheers man!
Love the whole album. Always have always will!
This is typical modern Genesis. Their albums contained mixture of genres. Sometimes prog, sometimes pop, sometimes a bit of jazz, and sometimes a bit of r&b. They keep you guessing. And they keep changing. And that’s why they managed such longevity.
They usually had one 'prog' Song on each album and they are quite good. This, 'Home by the sea/Second home by the sea' and 'Driving the last spike' being my favourites.
One of the disappointing parts of the next self-titled record is home by the sea, second home. Weakest prog song attempt last few records. Dodo/Lurker miles and miles better. Domino better. Fading Lights also better.
It's anyone's guess how you'll react to the next track, "Who Dunnit?"
the next one will be very breaking for the album :P
He'll either hate it, or see the funny side of it.
A bit like... 👀🤷♂️🤬
Justin please review Feeding the Fire and Evidence of Autumn from this Genesis era. You will be very happy!
A Saturday medley of B-Side reactions would be stellar. Just saying. 😎😉
"Where does he go / what does he do?" In Dodo, he has a dream of love as big as the ocean. In Me and Sarah Jane, he invents a name. In Keep It Dark, he has seen a world full of people, their hearts full of joy. In all three songs, there is a "dreaminess" and a dash of utopianism. Incredible production on this track as you can clearly hear all the major instruments.
First of all, the answer to the riddle is a submarine. At least this is the popular consensus. A fear of fire and water is every submariner's nightmare. Water flooding the boat or fire on a boat is about the worst things that can happen. Seldom need to breathe can be taken as a submarine can stay beneath the waves for an extremely long time but will occasionally have to rise to bring in fresh air.
Now, the song itself: Hands down the best two tracks on the album. And it they were originally part of a much longer suite: "Naminanu / Dodo / Lurker / Submarine". It goes to show, even at this point, Genesis were still not through with progressive rock. I could tell by your face that you were enjoying this, right from the get go! 😄❤ Great reaction!
When Genesis songs weave in and out of different sections they're at their best. When they turn to verse/chorus pop songs (while good at times) I'm less invested. This song along with Me and Sarah Jane best represent the Genesis I love
Me and Sarah Jane is an incredible song. Almost not one section repeats-the song just evolves. The psychedelic bridge into the “Outro” is gorgeous.
Yep, Phil's 'less is more' drum style in these later albums still sounds awesome with his unique style 👌
In my opinion it's a ton more since the drums actually started to get recorded well. Even Phil grew up knowing trying to play fast jazzy fills is kind of pointless and what you do in Genesis when the sound of the drums is terrible as they were until 1981, but the really busy jazzy drumming seems to be impressive to some. This is one of the few songs I like Chester's reworking of the drums though.
Live version is even better...this song and " Me and Sarah Jane" best from this album
Justin, just come back from seeing Genesis... Bloody awesome butty.. Highlights Duchess.. Firth of gifth instrumental, and the superb Carpet Crawlers.. 😊 ❤️🎶🎶.
If uou have chance to dee them... Go, just go Justin.. What a show my friend
Wonderful Neil!! Glad that you had a good time :D
Jusin you have listened to so much Genesis but not LIVE Gensis! You are missing out big time man, live Genesis is Levels beyond studio Genesis and I'm not just trying to sell you on it believe me. If I was to make a recommendation check out the "Three Sides Live" Album.
Abacab is the best album of post hackett Genesis - if not the best the most courageous
Dodo is awesome! You should check out the Dodo Suite on the Genesis Central channel, because it’s simply awesome.
Reeeally looking forward to what you’ll think of Who Dunnit?, which is up next on the album :)
Good song, you’re right, a nice mix between their prog and pop personas. This and Sara Jane for me!
"Best of both worlds." Couldn't agree more, Justin. Dodo/Lurker are easily the strongest tracks off of the album. 1981 me loved the hell out of it, and 2021 me continues to enjoy it.
I consider myself to be a Genesis fanatic, but as I age, my priorities have shifted. Buying tickets to the Buffalo show this coming November was NOT the automatic decision that it would have been decades before. But because of the influence that the band was to the soundtrack of my life, I decided to treat myself one more time to check them out one last time while it was still possible. That said, if they can put on a show worthy of attendance, I can do my part and show up. ;-)
Strangely enough, for all of the years that I have listened to the album, I never really paid that much scrutiny to the lyrics. Who knew that Lurker ended with a riddle? I was too busy basking in the afterglow (saw what I did there) of Dodo to pay that much attention.
Coming Up: arguably one of the most divisive tracks in the Genesis discography. Here's a pro-tip - invest heavily in popcorn stocks. Thanks for the reaction and upload, Justin.
You need to check out the live versions of Dodo ..3 sides live & any other bootlegs from this era!...they opened the show with it too!!! I love it for an opener!!! .it's HUGE!!
funkier at times too!
I read the 76 posted comments (my time)... And sometimes, I wander if (as I can go into this for decades because I am a huge fan) if people who loves Genesis does not over explain the meaning of the things. ---> The "Abacab Suite"... supposed to be designed in advance... Remember guys : the writing process of the band was : 1) bits from one of the members 2) pieces improvised by the band. And always : lyrics wrote in the last phase of the created process. In my opinion, thinking about a plan which would be... planned involving the aborted tracks, as if the whole thing was a part of a story... well, I see it as... conspiracy. Those who think like that seem to me doing some "retro-enginering" , putting all the pieces as they like it would match in their mind...
The answer to the riddle ? I think there is no answer at all. JP, you are no involved in the Beatles listening. To me, it's just the same as The Walrus. A bit of meat threw to the pack, to give them something to play with...
Agree, Phil's drumming is solid (especially love it during the reprise of the opening section). Tony's lyrics for "Dodo" remind me at certain times of The Beatles' "Come Together"
Hey Justin! Hope you're having a good Sunday. More Genesis, cool, turn it up!
Thanks! You too!
@@JustJP 😎
Back in the 1980s, when I was a teenager, I thought Phil was singing 'Darth Vader, agitator, keeps asking questions; says he wants to know why.' Obviously, the cassettes we had back then didn't have lyric sheets, and we were fortunate whenever they would have liner notes at all! That's why I didn't even know that Steve Hackett was a member of the band until a few years later!
Also, I remember from around 1994 and onward there was a Genesis mailing list called 'Paperlate.' At one point, there was a thread going around in which everyone was trying to guess the answer to Tony Banks' riddle. I remember that 'a rifle' was a popular answer. Then others would respond to disprove the answers which were given.
You weren't the only one to hear "Darth Vader". Before a concert in '82 a girl in front of me said, "I hope they play 'Paperplate'" to me. She said it so innocently and adorably I could only nod.
LOVE this song! Three Sides Live has this song going right into a kick ass version of Abacab. Phil and Chester on drums - smokin!
Very nice pair of songs. I really like the intensity of the various parts, drums/bass/keys. The spoken intro to 'Lurker' always makes me think of Frank Zappa.
Phil's fills on Lurker .... so solid and straightforward.
Sooper-dope Genesis track. Awesome synth action.
I hope you're ready for the next song which is quite possibly the greatest track the band has ever done, dare I say it's the greatest track ever released in general?
They didn't do it
This song is one of the last vestiges - I suspect, at least - of Banks bringing in something to the studio more developed and the other two really buying into it. It is pure prog, but funkified for the 80s. Also, the layering and texturing is deep. You even get tubular bells toward the end like a well-orchestrated composition.
Definitely best song on the album. Then nothing absolutely exceptionally great from them until "Fading Lights" the last song on their last album written by Tony Banks. To me it sounds like his swan song to Genesis. A phenomenal song. A great song to end it all with. This song was great live. It's on the "Three sides Live" album.
In case you miss Home by the sea
@@remokrstan5 No i didn't miss Home by the Sea. That song is too repetitive. That's just my opinion. I like some of their song's in between but none I'd call classic Genesis.
@@AWaBfantasy Home&2nd home are far away, the best Genesis song after ATTW3
@@remokrstan5 2nd home by the sea is fucking insane as it,s all instrumental with acombination of drumming/syth with som of the best synthasizer solo that i hav ever heard in my life
@@bigjapi1 Their,s another great1on their called Roll and roller. It takes agood minit before it actaully kicks but when it does it beautiful it really is
The beginning reminds me of Foxtrot...."Watcher" in particular.... probably because of those powerful chords. A real proggy start.
This is just another great Genesis album. Wait till you get to Calling All Stations. Another great Genesis album with Ray Wilson on vocals.
@@Katehowe3010 Don’t worry matey, JP will get to Take That etc soon enough😊
I'm not making an assumption, I'm just making an on topic comment because I like JP and what he does and I want him to be successful here on UA-cam.
@@Katehowe3010 You're right. JP, please do as you're told. You don't want to be called names if you don't explore all other music before you enjoy discovering Genesis. Including a healthy smattering of Krautrock.
@@Katehowe3010 Have you heard Calling all Stations? Ray Wilson is a gem. He has a new album coming I think in September. He plays with some amazing musicians. Ali Ferguson on guitar is amazing. I am looking forward to it.
@@Katehowe3010 Yeah, a lot of people had the same response to CAS, including Tony and Mike.
Love that you are open for change and the evolution of Genesis. I would put this up with anything Peter did.
It was actually edited from a much longer piece that had the other parts released on a boxed set, Submarine and NamuNanu.
ua-cam.com/video/tPu5VPA3CR0/v-deo.html
You might want to consider interrupting the flow of the album to make this point and react to it, since you are at eh Dodo/Lurker segment anyway? Of course that is up to you.
Fantastic track! The one I still play the most from the album.
Genesis evolved to find a sound. The people who stayed in the 70s failed to evolve.
They didn't progress.
I could see this song in Peter Gabriel era Genesis.
On a side note, I originally thought the lyrics _Dog baiter, agitator_ was _Darth Vader! agitator / Asking questions says he wants to know why._ 😆
I thought that up until just now! 😊
Yep me too.. I mean it was 1981.. around the time of the Empire strikes back.
I love ACABAB. I saw them Live perform songs from this too. It's stripped down but not too much and is still Prog at this point. And this song is GREAT, GROOVY, FUN/FUNKY and DYNAMIC with a wonderful story!!!! GREAT SONG!!! MY LAST FAVORITE ALBUM BY THEM. The LURKER is really COOOOOOOOL
This album shows that the band has the Power of a Hard Rock/Death Metal Band, even more powerful, especially Dodo. Although I always thought that if one song should be left in the universe to summerize Genesis, like if some sort of illegal Aliens would come across that song, it would be "Me And Sarah Jane". This T. BANKS song contains everything Genesis is about since they've started until 1991.
How about playing every song from every solo album of every Genesis-members now? ... Just kidding 😁. Thomas Dolby, Prefab Sprout and GG, please.
Justin, have you ever heard the Mommyheads? Legendary cult art-pop band, active 1980s-present, influenced by the likes of XTC, James Brown, and Genesis (the Genesis influence really popped out to me on their newest album!) A couple tracks to try: "Needmore, Pennsylvania", "Cactus Farm", "Saints Preserve Us"
Phil Collins said ABACAB was a break from their past. This whole album needs to be played loud! Lurker is about a submarine. As you can tell I'm a HUGE Genesis fan. Thanks for this video!!
One of my favourite songs ever! The studio version is so powerful, but the live Phil's vocals really go to another level. Love it!
Kiss a$$ song!🤯🤯🤯 love your new logo J.P! Btw- what happened to your voice? Sounds different.
Ty! I was sick during this and a few other videos lol
@@JustJP hope your feeling better! Skip Who Dunnit if you can. Its the worst song Genesis ever recorded!
@@colecomatt lol that's for sure.. I useto think he was saying "Was it you are was it me or was it ecstasy" Took me years to read the lyrics it's x or z. Just like this song when I thought they said Darth Vader and not Dog baiter. Lol
The lurker is a submarine.
I like this song just fine, I think many fans do, it's more experimental than the rest. And their pop songs are of good quality, I always liked Phil's heartfelt ballads, it's the novelty songs I don't care for: 'Who Dunnit? on this one and 'Illegal Alien' on the 1983 self-titled album. They had better songs on the "3x3" EP and studio side of "Three Sides Live", 'Open Door' and 'Evidence of Autumn' were leftovers from "Duke".
...its staggering to watch how quickly and openly you listened to the changes the band made to their sound... I heard most of their albums (since Nursery Crime) just after their launch, and it took me a bit longer, although I never 'hated' anything they did - for that I was too much of a fan (Genesis were my number 1 through the whole 70s decade!)... I realized that its okay to swing my toes (or more) and have a broad smile in my face, when listening to them... they discovered physicality and fun, not least due to Phil, the great transformer... he brought already a lot of Jazz to the drumming sound of the band (loved his input on Brand X!).. I hold Abacab quite high within their later albums, even higher than Duke (to me still rather a Phil Collins & Friends album)... and I so much felt they deserve to finally have some more revenue... they just about made ends meet through the 70s... its become a very enjoyable album, once I'd thrown out my expectations, set by the past! xx PS. Justin - you're so much 'down-my-alley' with your reviews, and you always add something, that I haven't yet seen, or phrased like the way you do... its highly entertaining and educating to listen to your reflections, always!
Back in the mid 80's, I saw them play a Summer concert at the old CNE Stadium in Toronto during the National Exhibition Festival. They opened the show with Dodo/Lurker.
It was great.
As probably others mentioned, this track was initially supposed to be a medley with other 2 tracks: Submarine and Naminanu (I think you already heard the first). If I remember correctly the right play order would be: Naminanu, Dodo/Lurker and Submarine.
Yeah this is definitely the only real good song on the album tbh. I do love the self titled "Shapes" album (aside from the very problematic Illegal Alien), but to me We Can't Dance is their peak pop-prog album. Genuinely amazing from start to finish. Driving the Last Spike makes me cry every time, and Fading Lights makes me think of my parents.
I had just been enjoying their commercial hits off Duke and Abacab in high school when I got this album. I heard Dodo/Lurker, and discovered my first real prog Genesis. My friend turned me on to Supper's Ready and I never looked back! The same friend soon turned me on to King Crimson and the Discipline album.
For some reason, I've never quite gotten into these tracks from Genesis. I absolutely love tracks like Squonk as well as stuff like Misunderstanding and Turn It On Again. I do like Abacab Man On The Corner from this album.
Great 👍 reaction! My favorite song on Abacab and dare I say from all of the post Duke 1980’s Genesis. Dodo/Lurker was awesome 🤩 live too.
Keep it Dark is my favorite song on this album. Although it may be the singular song I prefer the studio version from Genesis. Dodo/Lurker is amazing on 3 Sides Live.
In general people are resistant to change. I think Genesis showed their versatility by changing and kept making amazing music.
They opened with this song in "83 on the Mama tour--I was 6th row right in front of Mike!! Also I met Mike in 2018 on a Mike + the Mechanics tour!!
They NEVER stopped being a progressive rock band dammit.
10:14 There's a simple reason behind why Phil's drumming draws attention and it's called syncopation (the essence of good musicanship). In simple terms: it's accenting notes that listener doesn't expect to be accented. It comes with different flavours but here is its most popular version accenting the upbeat (here)with hihat. Notice that your head starts go up everytime stressed hihat hits, that makes all the work in rhythmic domain of this song. Maybe that's the reason why people tend to perceive the song as pop (though proggresive) since you can find this kind of syncopation in 70's - 80's disco.
If I may recomennd some more prog rock stuff:
ua-cam.com/video/iq2WKo5s8e8/v-deo.html - title song especially but whole album is worth listening (great outro guitar solo in Trójkąt Radości and in title track).
Riddle answer- Submarine.
Clothes of brass- subs made outta metal
Hair of brown- seaweed gets stuck to sub
Seldom need to breathe- subs don’t need to come up for air
Don’t need no word wings to fly- does it’s flying underwater
And a heart of stone- mmm not sure about this one if I’m honest
And a fear of fire & water who am I- the 2 deadliest things for a sub.. fire n water.
Just a sidenote JP- it would be a shame if you missed out on a b-side song from this era called ‘You Might Recall’.
Especially when you hear what’s coming next...
You might recall is regarded by many fans as a fantastic tune & the album would’ve benefited greatly from its inclusion.
This is one of my all time favourite Genesis tracks.
Originally the album contained no lyric sheet. It was only in the CD release that lyrics were included... I always thought the second line said "Dark "O" with "VER" on it's side" i.e. extinct.
For me, Abacab up to this point is a fine album but it's after this track where the rot sets in.
For everyone that says Genesis sold out, did anyone ever think that maybe they just evolved? If you like the Gabriel era, more power to you! I think they are both great. So sick of the folks that act like boomers with the whole “back in my day” crap. Genesis is amazing no matter the era. Oh and Gabriel’s only number one hit during his solo career was Sledgehammer. Is Sledgehammer considered a Prog song?
Not being the Genesis albums that I like the most, I have a special affection for being the band's first album I bought.
This track, along with the initial track, that gives the album its name, are for me, the best on the album, which by the way, is not at all, the most inspired work of the band.
However, there are two tracks in particular that I also really like, (No Reply at All and My and Sarah Jane) that bring back very good memories of my teenage years.😊
for all the prog rock whiners out there, please tell me what prog rock band of the 70s remained prog throughout the 90s? For all the Peter Gabriel "purists" you're going to tell me So, Us and Up are prog rock? They're pop. Good pop, but pop
Opening song on the Mama tour in Pittsburgh. December 7th, 1983. I was 10 row back. One of the, if not the best shows I have ever seen.
I thought the way Phil spoke the rhythm of the words before the synth solo and the solo itself was very reminiscent of “I Know What I Like.” Listen to these passages again with this idea in mind and see what you think! It really jumped out at me, and I don’t think I felt it before now. I can’t remember if I thought this before, so it make no difference.
I can’t say I really like the whole song beginning to end but parts of it are very good. I haven’t listened to it in ages. I remembered the duck walk synth part though, right before it came on.
I’m glad you liked it. When this album came out in 1981 I couldn’t get enough of it. It’s cool. Maybe a little too bombastic, like it’s trying too hard to hit you over the head. Some of the chords sound great. In 40 years I can’t ask you how it held up for you over time. I only know it’s not as good for me now compared to 1981.
Hi JP thanks for askin,yes its a wonderful sunday sunny day. It. Begins very good ti listenin with you my favorite song on that album. The most prog rock song on that album, have a wonderful day Justin.
In the middle of Genesis pop music era they put out a progressive track like this. Brings back memories of playing drums to this when I was in high school. You’re right, this would fit well with Duke.
Justin, Ignore the haters, there are lots of great Genesis tracks post Duke. It’s been a while since I listened to Dodo/Lurker I forgot how good it is. When I listen to the Album this is normally as far as I get, as the remainder is below par. Just grabbing a bag of popcorn for your reaction to the next track :) I still can’t believe they put Whodunnit on the Album when they had recorded, Paperlate at the same time, which was released as a EP the following year.
If it wasn't for the edit version of Abacab, perfect single full of energy (whereas the album version starts to get slightly boring in the second instrumental part), I'd say Dodo/Lurker is the best song on the album
And there it is..hands down my favorite track on the album...and you hit the nail on the head, it's a throwback to fans of prog Genesis to allow them to move forward. Absolutely spectacular!!
Which member of Genesis thought reggae was the answer? Mike Rutherford, I bet he's responsible. Reggae has no business in Prog and middle class public schoolboys should leave well alone.
It's definitely a mix of 70s and 80s approaches. The opening chords are reminiscent of Watcher Of The Skies, but then it goes into reggae and synthpop segments, which are cool but not fully integrated into the track. If Steve Hackett was still with them it could have been developed into something pretty good. I'm afraid they still sound like half a band to me until they fully reinvented themselves as a sophisticated synthpop trio on Invisible Touch, which also suits Phil's lighter voice better. I don't think he really had the resonance and heft for this sort of thing by this stage.
I am aware of the submarine solution but I think the answer to the Lurker riddle might actually be The EWF Phenix Horns. I suspect that the Lurker keyboard solo which has a brass horn sounding tone was originally intended to be a brass solo. That horn section was involved in several of their tracks at that time.
First of all, please don't apologize for playing more Genesis... especially this, one of the very best.
Great analysis -- you're so right about the partnership between Mike and Tony as they create the harmonic environment that Phil sings in. And also how they were exploring reggae rhythms in a rock context, like the Police had done. This song is also a killer live. Chester is just an absolute beast behind the kit.
I agree this is probably the best track on this album, but it's not as good as Deep In The Motherlode, or Duchess for that matter.
I get that they were experimenting on these albums after Hackett left, and I'm certain they picked the best songs they had for this album, but can you imagine what the rest was like?
I remain a Genesis fan today, and I bought all their albums, even Calling All Stations, but I was not impressed by the Album Abacab.
saw them in 1982- they opened with this song...stage was dark, and then on the downbeat the stage was lit up all in "blue"...really strong opening for the nite...
There is a new video by a Genesis fan - it explains the Riddle, but more importantly, it puts together the entire unreleased "Dodo Suite"!
ua-cam.com/video/G6RxdnvwbRY/v-deo.html
It's long and it's weird and it's good, but is it prog? I don't know. I've yet to come up with a definition of prog that satisfies me. But it doesn't come near to inspiring me like prog-era Genesis. It's not even my favorite song on this album. It's probably third after Abacab and Man on the Corner.
Once again, great ears/observation. Yes, I see the opening fat synth chords very reminiscent of And Then there were three. Could easily fit on that album. We are currently covering this one and it's one of my fav's in out set. Especially with the Taurus pedals doubling the bass.
Can you imagine how awesomely old-school Genesis this would have sounded with Peter singing? As mentioned below this was originally going to be part of a suite. If you look around on YT you can find folks who have re-created what it might have sounded like.
The answer to the riddle to me is a submarine. Dodo/Lurker was originally part of a suite. Starting with a track called Naminanu then on to Dodo/Lurker then Submarine. The riddle alludes to the last track in the suit. Hair of brown= seaweed, clothes of brass = nuclear submarines are made of brass, fear of fire and water = nuclear melt down or sinking, heart of stone = the nuclear reactor, no wings to fly = a submarine “flies” under water.
It was this song that led one rock critic to call Genesis, 'music that only your middle school math teacher would like'. I remember back in the Eighties the intro music was used for Battle of the Brains TV show on PBS.