I have a 991.2 , entering my fifth summer driving season . I drive it every day while it’s insured outside winter months . If I would torture the data to the extent that you do , I probably would have been watching the graphs and articles waiting years to buy rather than watching the trees fly by as I enjoyed it on a daily basis . Want to drive cheaply ? Do t drive a Porsche . Want an exhilarating driving experience that feels like an event every time you turn the key ? Don’t wait . You are on this earth for a finite time . Get busy living , or get busy dying .
@@zooski1516 the interior is gorgeous. i don't care for digital clusters (like on the side of the center tach), but the gear change lights is awesome. AP was smart to keep a regular type shifter in it.
992 GT3 production is not limited in numbers, nor will GT4 RS' be limited in numbers, so as long as you're willing to pay mark ups, you will get one. Porsche beat their 2019 sales record by 14 percent, and their 2020 number by 22 percent, and they're just getting started. VW group is prioritizing production of their high profit / high price models over their run of the mill models, so 2022 will be another record year for Porsche. Many limited edition 911s are in the horizon too. So I think you are on point. In the next 5 years, we can also factor in older GT3 owners who might be looking to sell due to knee, back, & hip pain. I think we're in for a very slight depreciation in the next 5 years, maybe even more long term (think 10-15 years) as younger generations don't seem to be into cars as much as millennials, Gen X, and baby boomers are/were.
They’re pocketing $100k+ per car. They can produce enough to meet demand VERY easily, but they’re choosing to throttle back. Even if dealers had 5 truckloads show up in the same day, the dealer would stash them and sell 1 at a time to continue to pocket those markups. If you pay it you either deserve to lose that money or good for you for not giving a rat’s rear end about $150,000. The caveat is that the price will never come down. The cost will, but with 400% inflation inbound, the price will remain where it is, potentially even creep up. Hope you’re not holding any USD.
I own a 997.2 Gt3 with less than 8000 miles on it. It is an absolutely showroom condition has never been tracked and h Its GT silver. I am putting it up for sale in the next several weeks and expect it to go for record price. Great video great content I enjoy your channel very much. Thanks.
You'll see a bifurcation in price between G6 991.1's and the other E, F and G0 991.1's. These are awesome raw cars and much closer to 991.2 GT3 performance/value than the current price gap would suggest. In some ways the .1 is a better driver's car than the .2, PDK vs PDK. The G6 is essentially a destroked version of what's in the .2
very spot on analysis, overall i think the market will continue to remain stable and there is a possibility of a price decrease as the production for 992 goes up, as you mentioned unless there are issues with the 992 which is unlikely, the prices will fall. Also as the prices on the 992 remains high, it will likely transition into stable prices overall on the 991.2 prices
I think 991.2 Touring prices will be rather stable - especially compared to 992 GT3 prices- due to low production numbers of the 991.2 Touring (only around 2.000 produced worldwide, so only slightly more than Speedsters) and because many people think that it has a better design than the 992 Touring
A couple points to add: Porsche confirmed that the 911 will always have an ICE, so this may not be a factor for markets such as those in the US. Also, Porsche recently confirmed an increase in supply for the 992 Porsches in general (including some gt3s presumably) with 900 of them allocated this first quarter. Great vid really good points
In my opinion the 991.2 Gt3 is more beautiful than the 992 gt3. Straight-line performance is identical. As for the times at the Nurburgring, the difference on the 20 km track is around 12 seconds. However, the 991.2 gt3 was fitted with michelin Cup2 while the 992 gt3 was fitted with cup2R, this means that if the 991.2 is fitted with the CupR, the gap is certainly not 12 seconds but a few seconds less. Having said that I'm not saying that the 991.2 is technically better than the 992, but the differences are very minimal. Probably only a very experienced pilot notices small details, everything else is just marketing. On the European market, a 992 GT3 with few km (miles) is valued at around 240/250k. A 991.2 Gt3 with few km (miles) is estimated at around 180 / 190 k. In my opinion, the approximately 60k difference is not justified.
Nice work as usual - I think the 991.1 GT3 will remain a bit of an anomaly due to PDK only and its non-motorsports engine that had some teething issues, and as you said that warranty is running out. Very expensive engines to fix ... that stigma will stay with the car. I would like to see also what the 997.1 and 997.2 GT3's and RS's are also doing with the same sort of analysis given I have a 997.1 GT3 lol.
I don’t disagree with you for those 991.1 cars that have fallen out of extended warranty AND the separate engine warranty. I have a 991.1 GT3 that I bought from an OPC and will keep it in warranty…. That being the case, they remain a pretty much free car to own from a depreciation perspective. I must say, although it is not a complete motorsport derived engine like the .2 4.0, it is only based on the carrera block… there are many fairly material motorsport changes to that 3.8
Always like the analysis you do. I agree I think the market will decrease on all used cars, not just the collector cars. It was a bit of an anomaly what occurred for all cars over the past year and a half. It’s like anything that increases at such a rate over a short period of time bound to have a correction at some point. How much who knows.
Correction - G6 was the final iteration, which no car shipped with from the factory. The 2016's off the with a "G" are still flawed, stronger than a 2014 or early production 2015 but missing the final fixes. Heck, I know of a local who just got his 2016 back yesterday.
Think the 991.2 Tourings will hold value more than their winged sister/brother because of the over-reaction to the lack of availability of the R. As supply increases on the 992 Tourings I believe the 991.2 will depreciate as it truly is not limited, but not at the rate of the winged variant. Thanks for a great channel!
Fantastic analysis as always and very thankful. In addition to the factors you mentioned, I wonder whether the introduction of the 992GT3 as a halo car had some effect in the uprise of the GT3 line in general, by attention going to the GT3 as being symbolic. This may explain the recent surge of 996GT3 in prices in addition to the diminishing availability due to 996 becoming classic, and 996GT3 being a halo car. If so then the same could happen with the GT2 lineage when 992GT2 is intro’d in a couple of years, as they have been the ultimate 911 halo since the 993.
I don't disagree, but remember, with the 991.2 and now the 992 the GT3 (and RS) are now the only 911 models with a NA power plant so this may also be driver in the GT3 lineup over-preforming.
I love your videos... Might I suggest a video on some older V12 manual cars like a original Murcielago or 550 Maranello the Murcielago has been climbing like crazy over the last year :)
I sold my 991.2 gt3 manual a few months ago for a big profit....I'm rueing my decision! it was the best car I've ever driven...given that it had a bullet proof engine, was a manual, had analog gauges....why did I sell it! It had the bucket seats, FAL, leather etc...if prices come down to msrp I would buy one again asap!
I am happy that there are people who can afford these cars and enjoy them! God willing I will be blessed with business and can afford one in the future, but with where the prices are going that is becoming more and more of a dream. We'll see what happens, beautiful cars. I love the 991.2 👍
Great video collection. Really enjoy them all. Can you possibly share the most recent Jan 22 presentation for the GT3? I'd like to walk though it a bit more in detail. Thanks.
Almost got a heart attack, but a below market 991.2 GT3 Touring should therefore still not be a desaster. And do not forget: Fun has no depreciation!! And a GT3 is ounces of fun!!! Btw. Congrats on your (I think) first sponsor!!! You deserve it for your great work and videos!!
If prices of 991.1 are stable it would be better to buy now while the troubled engine is in warranty rather than later when the engine will be out of warranty.
Interesting and thoughtful. Thank u. I am also in the camp of getting a 991.2 gt3. My 991.2 c2s trade in is also very high compared to normal so I think the delta has not moved that far. I agree that the downside is a bit higher than the up but then I think I am moving to a better vehicle and lower downside vs a regular 911 with more potential downside. What do you think?
I had a 991.1 Carrera S, which I sold in late 2019 in order to upgrade. Was looking at GTS models and GT3s (which were going for $80K to about $110K respectively). Now we're looking at $115K GTSs and $140K GT3s. For me, the value is no longer there, especially with the potential for the 991.1 GT3 engine to grenade out of warranty very soon. People were exorcised about the 996 IMS and RMS issues and those were nothing compared to potential issues with the .1 GT3s. I'm hoping prices return to earth in 2023 and I can get back in the game, but who knows. Greenspan talked about irrational exhuberance during the dotcom era stock market, but that's nothing compared to the current car market.
Great vid, our UK prices are largely similar to US and I’d like to see the historical data for UK. I’m looking at 991.2’s but as you observe they feel overpriced by around 10% so I will likely wait till summer and see how it develops. If I could get a 992 I would, with options they are the same price in the UK as a 10,000 mile 991.2 , but as all say just not available unless you’ve bought 10 of the things over the past 5 years. I do love my 4.0 Cayman so not a great penalty to wait.
Great analysis as usual, I‘m watching all your videos on Porsche GT cars. I‘m wondering if you shouldn‘t also take the fairly low production numbers into consideration when speaking about future price trends e.g., only 1240 997 GT2s or 1600 997.2 GT3RS were built. Also the 991.1 GT3 was built in very limited numbers due to the initial recall of the E-series engine. Fewer numbers than the 991.2.
I don't think that the prices of GT3s will go any lower. If anything, they'll increase even further considering the current situation of supply chains(microchips) that causes the shortage and long waiting times. I don't think that the prices will remain stable or pull back before the end of 2023 or beginning of 2024.
Great video! You can draw parallels between your GT3 market analysis and the broader market as a whole. In fact because the GT3 is such a highly sensitive premium good, it might even come in advance of a similar effect in the rest of the economy. I am very sure your predictions will turn out to be right!
I'm thinking that the market will stay stable for GT3s rather than up or down too much. With Covid, there's been a change in psychology for living for the day. Here is a vehicle that is inherently great (performance, reliability, character) that (wealthy) people can enjoy. It's a vehicle that people will want to own for a long time, becuase last-ish of the NA. I think these factors will stabilize the prices near this level.
I severely doubt prices will stabilise near this level. 992 GT3 supply will pick up and general new car supply should improve significantly towards H2.
@@feelsgoodman245 No real Porsche guy wants a 992 though. They ride waaaaaay too stiff. And they have very polarizing looks (i think the 992 is fugly). Only the 991/997/996 will hold value. 992's are too much of a departure in the wrong direction.
@@Airbag1010674 I Hope you aren’t serious. Your statement is idiotic. Every “Porsche Guy” and their mothers want a 992 GT3. The 992 GT3 is without a doubt a better car than the 991 GT3.
No comments on the GT3 992! Are people paying the $-00,000 plus going to get killed or make money? I was offered red d a GT3 with a $50,000 premium and I turned it down- was I being stupid???
Excellent post and demystification of the overpriced GT3! Can you please do a piece on the overinflated 993 4S, which is now approaching $200,000? It's a total scam, as the Carrera 4 has the exact same drivetrain, motor, horsepower and torque. People are paying twice as much for a car that has slightly bigger brakes, and a slightly larger rear end, which nobody will notice!
Insane. didn't realize they'd gone up that high. Many factors for this, obviously, but I blame the BaT effect for driving prices through the roof on many 80s and 90s "youngtimer" german cars. I've seen 964 C2s with high miles sell for $125K. I remember in 2009 you couldn't give 'em away for $30K.
Another great vid. I think 991.1 prices will always be hampered by the engine issues. They may drop more as the end of the 10 year manufacturer engine warranties expire.
Alternate viewpoint - by the time those warranties start expiring we may be seeing the end of the 9k NA car anyway. They'll always be the black sheep GT3 but only logically so low they can go.
What if you don’t want a the car to keep it sitting in your garage to increase value? What if you want to drive the heck out of it until it has over 100k miles. I might buy a 2015 GT3 with 19k miles for 153. Do you think I should still wait?
I think that the more miles you add, the less relevant the market movements are for you. You know from the beginning that the car is going to lose value due to the mileage increase and that this will be the driving force behind the value decrease. Enjoy the car :)
That's not a particularly great deal unless it has the particular spec you desire. At that price, I'd be looking for PCCBs, buckets, and front axle lift. Hell, Porsche Knoxville had a PTS 991.1 GT3 (signal green, I think) for sale a few weeks ago for $149.9K.
996.2 GT3 just closed on BaT with a high bid of $127k, reserve not met. Curious if you’ve ever considered how stock market performance impacts the value of these cars as many are now being bought as “investments”.
Research papers suggest a relatively low correlation of around 0.3 between collectable cars and stock market performance. Yet, historically we have seen that a disappointing stock market performance can drive prices for collectable cars up. I'm not aware of any work that establishes a clear relationship between the two.
Awesome videos! Would love it if you would also take the european market into account though, would be cool to see the differences and very useful for people in the EU :)
@@fourwheeltrader In Switzerland the 991.2 Touring cars are listed from around CHF180K - CHF205k ($200k - $225k) and non Touring cars CHF140K - CHF175k. ($155k - $190k) I can see these prices (Especially the Touring) softening as 992 cars are delivered. There are also no problems in getting 992 GT3s at list or just a bit below. Other European countries should have even lower prices.
My opinion 10-20k above msrp. Anything over that your being ripped off. There is over 50 of them on auto trader all over 300k, I say let them sit. I’m in the same market as you.
Depends on how much being the coolest kid on your block is worth. For me, not $100K. My local dealer has 2 992 GT3s listed for about $325K. They're beautiful cars, but for me the 991.2 Touring is peak GT3 anyway.
Worst time to buy any vehicle.......bought mine almost a year ago and cars like mine are selling for about $8k more than what I paid with more miles even.....gzzzz. My car is just an ordinary sedan.....although very nice and very low miles and loaded.
Unless you’re a competitive track junky, the performance difference between a 991.1 and a 992 doesn’t merit a $153,000 premium. I would rather buy the 991.1 and put a C8 Z06 in the garage next to it for my 300 grand. And still have a blast on track day.
I configured a 992 GT3 touring and came out to $186k USD then I see dealers trying to sell 992 GT3 for $280K+ with less options than I specc’d so I’m on hold right now and instead playing with the stock market with my Morgan Stanley investments….GT3 ownership will just have to wait….
@@zooski1516 there is many choices for sure. Plus as someone that lives in vegas I can rent Lamborghinis, Ferraris, Porsches, etc all day long for a few hundred bucks an hour to a thousand bucks for a day of fun. I just want a GT3 as a retirement fun car for myself
One GLARING omission in your analysis. Values are up across the board, not just GT3's. So the relatively price delta is all that is relevant. I received $20k more for my Porsche trade (than I would have 18 months ago) on a 991.1 GT3 that was only $15k above nominal/last 5 year price of ~$125-130k. So, it's all relative. OTD after trade is what matters. Also keep in mind, only GT3's and unicorn (911R, 997.2 4.0 RS, etc) Porsches have historically appreciated and held their respective value. The other ones don't, yet they are equally inflated in value right now. Making your GT3 inflated price argument immaterial if you have a trade. Again, price delta is all that matters. In regards to the 991.1 motor, it's "blown" (pun intended) out of proportion. Many head checks at 35k miles and no wear. It's a manufacturing metallurgical/inclusion issue that affects a small percentage, maybe 10% of all ~6,300 produced. If not, Porsche will give you a brand new G6 motor, which is bulletproof. I still have 3.5 years left on my factory engine warranty (that's effectively a new 4 year Porsche/Factory warranty). If a 991.1 motor is going to go, it will before ~30k miles. All the 991.2's are now mostly out of original factory warranty, you will have to find a CPO example or buy aftermarket/Fidelity, which is only two years. The 991.2's are also arguably too refined from the 991.1, none of the admirable quirks of the 991.1. The low rpm rumble, SMFW clattering, mechanical whine of the 3.8 between 8500-9000, has all been filtered out. The 991.2 is also not as good looking or timeless as the 991.1. Lots of tacked on black plastic bits, shark mouth front-end. Ultimately, those cosmetic and visceral/emotional reasons along with an average price delta of ~$50k!! (you could buy yourself a G6 motor with $50k and have Porsche put it in for you) I went with a 991.1, of which most still have 3+ years of factory motor warranty! If you want a GT3, now is the time to buy. Clean, low mileage examples are getting harder and harder to find. The 992 is FUGLY, and it rides stiffer than an RS. Not a good street car at all. The 992 in general will not age well or go down in history as a classic, like the 991's will. The 911 died when they debuted the 992.
In my opinion the price delta is not so relevant here. Of course, the full market is up. So if you bought a car with the same price as a GT3 before the price surge and that car increased with the same percentage as the GT3s did, the trade-in gap remains te same. However, if values go down, you still take the hit on that just like you would in a normal market situation. Let's assume you want to go back to your original car which moved in absolute and relative terms similair to the GT3 market, and that the market goes down by 20%; your trade-in delta remains the same but you still lost 20% value. One can think of course about ways to minimize this value decrease but that's a different discussion.
@Airbag1010674 you bring up many good points however I completely disagree with you in regards to your 3.8 991.1 vs 4.0 991.2 comparison. Having owned a 2014 GT3 prior to buying a 2018 a few years ago I couldn’t go back to the 3.8 as the 4.0 sounds better, revs better, isn’t nearly as peaky in its torque curve but most importantly if you look into the internals of the engine it’s night/day and that’s why there is such a big delta between the 2 cars. Fact is the 4.0 is very closely related to the RSR race engine and extremely overbuilt/near bullet proof, the 3.8 has more than one known issue in relation to its long term durability
@@jameswillard1 I hear you. I personally like the 991.1 looks much better, and also find it to be more raw. In the end, you can't go wrong with either.
If inflation continues will lead to imminent recession and will help you be right, but not only on the GT3 market, in mostly all the other car markets! That's where I will use the cash I got from the sale of 991.2 and buy another!
I have a 991.2 , entering my fifth summer driving season . I drive it every day while it’s insured outside winter months . If I would torture the data to the extent that you do , I probably would have been watching the graphs and articles waiting years to buy rather than watching the trees fly by as I enjoyed it on a daily basis . Want to drive cheaply ? Do t drive a Porsche . Want an exhilarating driving experience that feels like an event every time you turn the key ? Don’t wait . You are on this earth for a finite time . Get busy living , or get busy dying .
The 991.2 will go down as one of the most beautiful 911s ever made.
Totally agree 👍
I go back and fourth between the 992 v 991.2. The interior pushes that toward the 992. Truly stunning.
@@zooski1516 the interior is gorgeous. i don't care for digital clusters (like on the side of the center tach), but the gear change lights is awesome. AP was smart to keep a regular type shifter in it.
I’ve had 3 GT3s and the 991.2 is the one I’m not selling
Agreed
992 GT3 production is not limited in numbers, nor will GT4 RS' be limited in numbers, so as long as you're willing to pay mark ups, you will get one. Porsche beat their 2019 sales record by 14 percent, and their 2020 number by 22 percent, and they're just getting started. VW group is prioritizing production of their high profit / high price models over their run of the mill models, so 2022 will be another record year for Porsche. Many limited edition 911s are in the horizon too. So I think you are on point. In the next 5 years, we can also factor in older GT3 owners who might be looking to sell due to knee, back, & hip pain. I think we're in for a very slight depreciation in the next 5 years, maybe even more long term (think 10-15 years) as younger generations don't seem to be into cars as much as millennials, Gen X, and baby boomers are/were.
They’re pocketing $100k+ per car. They can produce enough to meet demand VERY easily, but they’re choosing to throttle back. Even if dealers had 5 truckloads show up in the same day, the dealer would stash them and sell 1 at a time to continue to pocket those markups. If you pay it you either deserve to lose that money or good for you for not giving a rat’s rear end about $150,000. The caveat is that the price will never come down. The cost will, but with 400% inflation inbound, the price will remain where it is, potentially even creep up. Hope you’re not holding any USD.
@@cartergarnon6299 this aged like 🥛
Just bought a 991.2 gt3 this month!
Congrats on the sponsorship deal. Great as always.
Thanks!
I own a 997.2 Gt3 with less than 8000 miles on it. It is an absolutely showroom condition has never been tracked and h
Its GT silver. I am putting it up for sale in the next several weeks and expect it to go for record price. Great video great content I enjoy your channel very much. Thanks.
You'll see a bifurcation in price between G6 991.1's and the other E, F and G0 991.1's. These are awesome raw cars and much closer to 991.2 GT3 performance/value than the current price gap would suggest. In some ways the .1 is a better driver's car than the .2, PDK vs PDK. The G6 is essentially a destroked version of what's in the .2
very spot on analysis, overall i think the market will continue to remain stable and there is a possibility of a price decrease as the production for 992 goes up, as you mentioned unless there are issues with the 992 which is unlikely, the prices will fall. Also as the prices on the 992 remains high, it will likely transition into stable prices overall on the 991.2 prices
I think 991.2 Touring prices will be rather stable - especially compared to 992 GT3 prices- due to low production numbers of the 991.2 Touring (only around 2.000 produced worldwide, so only slightly more than Speedsters) and because many people think that it has a better design than the 992 Touring
A couple points to add:
Porsche confirmed that the 911 will always have an ICE, so this may not be a factor for markets such as those in the US.
Also, Porsche recently confirmed an increase in supply for the 992 Porsches in general (including some gt3s presumably) with 900 of them allocated this first quarter.
Great vid really good points
Do you know how many of those will go to the US?
@@greenworld7148 ua-cam.com/video/0DTibY2dDN0/v-deo.html this vid is where I got my info, can’t remember exactly off the top
The EU has banned benzin engines from 2035 in production.
In that light Porsche recently introduced its plan to make a 911 hybrid.
In my opinion the 991.2 Gt3 is more beautiful than the 992 gt3. Straight-line performance is identical.
As for the times at the Nurburgring, the difference on the 20 km track is around 12 seconds. However, the 991.2 gt3 was fitted with michelin Cup2 while the 992 gt3 was fitted with cup2R, this means that if the 991.2 is fitted with the CupR, the gap is certainly not 12 seconds but a few seconds less. Having said that I'm not saying that the 991.2 is technically better than the 992, but the differences are very minimal. Probably only a very experienced pilot notices small details, everything else is just marketing.
On the European market, a 992 GT3 with few km (miles) is valued at around 240/250k.
A 991.2 Gt3 with few km (miles) is estimated at around 180 / 190 k.
In my opinion, the approximately 60k difference is not justified.
Nice work as usual - I think the 991.1 GT3 will remain a bit of an anomaly due to PDK only and its non-motorsports engine that had some teething issues, and as you said that warranty is running out. Very expensive engines to fix ... that stigma will stay with the car. I would like to see also what the 997.1 and 997.2 GT3's and RS's are also doing with the same sort of analysis given I have a 997.1 GT3 lol.
A 996/997 GT3 (RS) video is in the pipeline for later this year.
I don’t disagree with you for those 991.1 cars that have fallen out of extended warranty AND the separate engine warranty. I have a 991.1 GT3 that I bought from an OPC and will keep it in warranty…. That being the case, they remain a pretty much free car to own from a depreciation perspective.
I must say, although it is not a complete motorsport derived engine like the .2 4.0, it is only based on the carrera block… there are many fairly material motorsport changes to that 3.8
@@paul_sykes You know what porshofiles are like. The subdivisions of subdivisions! It's a stonking motor and in reality - who would really care.
Always like the analysis you do. I agree I think the market will decrease on all used cars, not just the collector cars. It was a bit of an anomaly what occurred for all cars over the past year and a half. It’s like anything that increases at such a rate over a short period of time bound to have a correction at some point. How much who knows.
Never a bad time to buy a GT3😝
The new 991.1 ‘G’ spec engines are solid, this should be remembered. Only the early e/f engines had problems.
Thanks for a great video!
Correction - G6 was the final iteration, which no car shipped with from the factory.
The 2016's off the with a "G" are still flawed, stronger than a 2014 or early production 2015 but missing the final fixes. Heck, I know of a local who just got his 2016 back yesterday.
Think the 991.2 Tourings will hold value more than their winged sister/brother because of the over-reaction to the lack of availability of the R. As supply increases on the 992 Tourings I believe the 991.2 will depreciate as it truly is not limited, but not at the rate of the winged variant. Thanks for a great channel!
Fantastic analysis as always and very thankful. In addition to the factors you mentioned, I wonder whether the introduction of the 992GT3 as a halo car had some effect in the uprise of the GT3 line in general, by attention going to the GT3 as being symbolic. This may explain the recent surge of 996GT3 in prices in addition to the diminishing availability due to 996 becoming classic, and 996GT3 being a halo car. If so then the same could happen with the GT2 lineage when 992GT2 is intro’d in a couple of years, as they have been the ultimate 911 halo since the 993.
I don't disagree, but remember, with the 991.2 and now the 992 the GT3 (and RS) are now the only 911 models with a NA power plant so this may also be driver in the GT3 lineup over-preforming.
This is brilliant- didn't know about some of these factors and was toying with a GT3 purchase...i think i'll wait,
I love your videos... Might I suggest a video on some older V12 manual cars like a original Murcielago or 550 Maranello the Murcielago has been climbing like crazy over the last year :)
I sold my 991.2 gt3 manual a few months ago for a big profit....I'm rueing my decision! it was the best car I've ever driven...given that it had a bullet proof engine, was a manual, had analog gauges....why did I sell it! It had the bucket seats, FAL, leather etc...if prices come down to msrp I would buy one again asap!
I am happy that there are people who can afford these cars and enjoy them! God willing I will be blessed with business and can afford one in the future, but with where the prices are going that is becoming more and more of a dream. We'll see what happens, beautiful cars. I love the 991.2 👍
Great video collection. Really enjoy them all. Can you possibly share the most recent Jan 22 presentation for the GT3? I'd like to walk though it a bit more in detail. Thanks.
Almost got a heart attack, but a below market 991.2 GT3 Touring should therefore still not be a desaster. And do not forget: Fun has no depreciation!! And a GT3 is ounces of fun!!! Btw. Congrats on your (I think) first sponsor!!! You deserve it for your great work and videos!!
If prices of 991.1 are stable it would be better to buy now while the troubled engine is in warranty rather than later when the engine will be out of warranty.
I love your videos, the analysis is fantastic. Thank you for being a wealth of knowledge. Are your able to do a new analysis on the AMG GT's?
I believe the GT3 prices will stabilize in 2022 and then next year start declining if rates go above 1%. I'm hoping I can pick a good deal next year!
GOOD LUCK WITH THESE CROOKS
Interesting and thoughtful. Thank u. I am also in the camp of getting a 991.2 gt3. My 991.2 c2s trade in is also very high compared to normal so I think the delta has not moved that far. I agree that the downside is a bit higher than the up but then I think I am moving to a better vehicle and lower downside vs a regular 911 with more potential downside. What do you think?
Incredibly insightful. In market so this was timely
Thanks for another great video! I always love the Porsche videos the most
I had a 991.1 Carrera S, which I sold in late 2019 in order to upgrade. Was looking at GTS models and GT3s (which were going for $80K to about $110K respectively). Now we're looking at $115K GTSs and $140K GT3s. For me, the value is no longer there, especially with the potential for the 991.1 GT3 engine to grenade out of warranty very soon. People were exorcised about the 996 IMS and RMS issues and those were nothing compared to potential issues with the .1 GT3s. I'm hoping prices return to earth in 2023 and I can get back in the game, but who knows. Greenspan talked about irrational exhuberance during the dotcom era stock market, but that's nothing compared to the current car market.
Thanks for providing this informative videos. I’ve been watching for a couple years now.
Can you do a video on the Mercedes G wagon?
Will keep my manual 991.2 lava orange for life !!!
Best cars I drove
Superb analysis thay reflects my thoughts. Thanks your this video
Great vid, our UK prices are largely similar to US and I’d like to see the historical data for UK. I’m looking at 991.2’s but as you observe they feel overpriced by around 10% so I will likely wait till summer and see how it develops. If I could get a 992 I would, with options they are the same price in the UK as a 10,000 mile 991.2 , but as all say just not available unless you’ve bought 10 of the things over the past 5 years. I do love my 4.0 Cayman so not a great penalty to wait.
I bought a 911.2 GT3 club sport last summer (UK), all options, crayon with 1800 miles for £148k. I think they’ll hold or go up again in spring.
Great analysis as usual, I‘m watching all your videos on Porsche GT cars. I‘m wondering if you shouldn‘t also take the fairly low production numbers into consideration when speaking about future price trends e.g., only 1240 997 GT2s or 1600 997.2 GT3RS were built. Also the 991.1 GT3 was built in very limited numbers due to the initial recall of the E-series engine. Fewer numbers than the 991.2.
Love the videos. Just wondering where you get price data? Thanks
Fantastic info and video! Thank you champion💪🙏🙌🌅
Great analysis absolutely agree with you. I'm waiting. 😊
I don't think that the prices of GT3s will go any lower. If anything, they'll increase even further considering the current situation of supply chains(microchips) that causes the shortage and long waiting times. I don't think that the prices will remain stable or pull back before the end of 2023 or beginning of 2024.
Great video! You can draw parallels between your GT3 market analysis and the broader market as a whole. In fact because the GT3 is such a highly sensitive premium good, it might even come in advance of a similar effect in the rest of the economy. I am very sure your predictions will turn out to be right!
What adm do you think is reasonable or possibly safe if you had an allocation for a 2023 GT3 touring pdk?
Supply in future years will be different because in some point gt3 will be hybrid! Then the prices of the fully gas engine gt3 will manta in high
Guhhh...should have pulled the trigger on the 997.1 gt3 at $65k a couple years back.
it could be fun to see the same video but for the canadian market.... as owner of a canadian gt3, it could help to see it!!!
I'm thinking that the market will stay stable for GT3s rather than up or down too much. With Covid, there's been a change in psychology for living for the day. Here is a vehicle that is inherently great (performance, reliability, character) that (wealthy) people can enjoy. It's a vehicle that people will want to own for a long time, becuase last-ish of the NA. I think these factors will stabilize the prices near this level.
I severely doubt prices will stabilise near this level. 992 GT3 supply will pick up and general new car supply should improve significantly towards H2.
@@feelsgoodman245 No real Porsche guy wants a 992 though. They ride waaaaaay too stiff. And they have very polarizing looks (i think the 992 is fugly). Only the 991/997/996 will hold value. 992's are too much of a departure in the wrong direction.
@@Airbag1010674 I Hope you aren’t serious. Your statement is idiotic. Every “Porsche Guy” and their mothers want a 992 GT3. The 992 GT3 is without a doubt a better car than the 991 GT3.
No comments on the GT3 992! Are people paying the $-00,000 plus going to get killed or make money? I was offered red d a GT3 with a $50,000 premium and I turned it down- was I being stupid???
Awesome video! Congrats
Excellent post and demystification of the overpriced GT3! Can you please do a piece on the overinflated 993 4S, which is now approaching $200,000? It's a total scam, as the Carrera 4 has the exact same drivetrain, motor, horsepower and torque. People are paying twice as much for a car that has slightly bigger brakes, and a slightly larger rear end, which nobody will notice!
Insane. didn't realize they'd gone up that high. Many factors for this, obviously, but I blame the BaT effect for driving prices through the roof on many 80s and 90s "youngtimer" german cars. I've seen 964 C2s with high miles sell for $125K. I remember in 2009 you couldn't give 'em away for $30K.
Another great vid. I think 991.1 prices will always be hampered by the engine issues. They may drop more as the end of the 10 year manufacturer engine warranties expire.
When you have Porsche Approved it’s covered 15 years
Alternate viewpoint - by the time those warranties start expiring we may be seeing the end of the 9k NA car anyway. They'll always be the black sheep GT3 but only logically so low they can go.
What if you don’t want a the car to keep it sitting in your garage to increase value? What if you want to drive the heck out of it until it has over 100k miles. I might buy a 2015 GT3 with 19k miles for 153. Do you think I should still wait?
Buy and enjoy 👍
I think that the more miles you add, the less relevant the market movements are for you. You know from the beginning that the car is going to lose value due to the mileage increase and that this will be the driving force behind the value decrease. Enjoy the car :)
That's not a particularly great deal unless it has the particular spec you desire. At that price, I'd be looking for PCCBs, buckets, and front axle lift. Hell, Porsche Knoxville had a PTS 991.1 GT3 (signal green, I think) for sale a few weeks ago for $149.9K.
Nice Video, Thanks
Going down!!!!!!!!!
996.2 GT3 just closed on BaT with a high bid of $127k, reserve not met. Curious if you’ve ever considered how stock market performance impacts the value of these cars as many are now being bought as “investments”.
Research papers suggest a relatively low correlation of around 0.3 between collectable cars and stock market performance. Yet, historically we have seen that a disappointing stock market performance can drive prices for collectable cars up. I'm not aware of any work that establishes a clear relationship between the two.
@@fourwheeltrader and now the stock market is tanking🤔
Awesome videos! Would love it if you would also take the european market into account though, would be cool to see the differences and very useful for people in the EU :)
Thanks, I'm planning to include the European market in the future.
@@fourwheeltrader In Switzerland the 991.2 Touring cars are listed from around CHF180K - CHF205k ($200k - $225k) and non Touring cars CHF140K - CHF175k. ($155k - $190k) I can see these prices (Especially the Touring) softening as 992 cars are delivered. There are also no problems in getting 992 GT3s at list or just a bit below. Other European countries should have even lower prices.
Nice video 👍
It is impossible since july 2021 to order an 992 gt3 worldwide .....😳😳😳 yes you still can configure one but not order it with porsche.....
I am wondering if it is worth paying above MSRP for a new 992 GT3, and if so, how much more above MSRP should someone pay in today’s market.
My opinion 10-20k above msrp. Anything over that your being ripped off. There is over 50 of them on auto trader all over 300k, I say let them sit. I’m in the same market as you.
Depends on how much being the coolest kid on your block is worth. For me, not $100K. My local dealer has 2 992 GT3s listed for about $325K. They're beautiful cars, but for me the 991.2 Touring is peak GT3 anyway.
@@lambdee7006 I totally agree with you
Brilliant🏁
Worst time to buy any vehicle.......bought mine almost a year ago and cars like mine are selling for about $8k more than what I paid with more miles even.....gzzzz.
My car is just an ordinary sedan.....although very nice and very low miles and loaded.
Could you do and updated video on this ? Thank you
This is the latest one: ua-cam.com/video/oYxmY_SWM5c/v-deo.html
I usually update the gt3 videos every 3 months.
@@fourwheeltrader thank you for the response and appreciate this info 👍🏼✅
Unless you’re a competitive track junky, the performance difference between a 991.1 and a 992 doesn’t merit a $153,000 premium. I would rather buy the 991.1 and put a C8 Z06 in the garage next to it for my 300 grand. And still have a blast on track day.
Could you please do the f80 M3/M4?
Hi hope you are doing well can you please do 981 gt4 ?
Did you already see this one? I will update it in the upcoming months ua-cam.com/video/LvI0ICEJZ8A/v-deo.html
Ok thanks
Find the next market update over here: ua-cam.com/video/vHJlUDCAr0Y/v-deo.html
*Which car would you like to see analysed next?*
GT4RS, how do you think it will be received in the market? Depreciate? Appreciate? Poverty spec or all-out?
Lotus Elise/Exige please!
the Tesla group. Or perhaps you already did it ?
997 GT3mk2
2019-2022 G63 especially now that Mercedes have greatly reduced production of the V8
Drive the car, the value drops. DOH!
What about the 996.2 GT3 ?
A video on the 996/997 GT3 is in the pipeline for later this year.
I configured a 992 GT3 touring and came out to $186k USD then I see dealers trying to sell 992 GT3 for $280K+ with less options than I specc’d so I’m on hold right now and instead playing with the stock market with my Morgan Stanley investments….GT3 ownership will just have to wait….
Same for me. Eventually Porsche will recognize all the lost sales as I’m going to buy a different manufacturer for now.
@@zooski1516 there is many choices for sure. Plus as someone that lives in vegas I can rent Lamborghinis, Ferraris, Porsches, etc all day long for a few hundred bucks an hour to a thousand bucks for a day of fun. I just want a GT3 as a retirement fun car for myself
Touring are going for above 350k. Agree on your approach.
991.1 carrera s!
One GLARING omission in your analysis. Values are up across the board, not just GT3's. So the relatively price delta is all that is relevant. I received $20k more for my Porsche trade (than I would have 18 months ago) on a 991.1 GT3 that was only $15k above nominal/last 5 year price of ~$125-130k. So, it's all relative. OTD after trade is what matters. Also keep in mind, only GT3's and unicorn (911R, 997.2 4.0 RS, etc) Porsches have historically appreciated and held their respective value. The other ones don't, yet they are equally inflated in value right now. Making your GT3 inflated price argument immaterial if you have a trade. Again, price delta is all that matters.
In regards to the 991.1 motor, it's "blown" (pun intended) out of proportion. Many head checks at 35k miles and no wear. It's a manufacturing metallurgical/inclusion issue that affects a small percentage, maybe 10% of all ~6,300 produced. If not, Porsche will give you a brand new G6 motor, which is bulletproof. I still have 3.5 years left on my factory engine warranty (that's effectively a new 4 year Porsche/Factory warranty). If a 991.1 motor is going to go, it will before ~30k miles.
All the 991.2's are now mostly out of original factory warranty, you will have to find a CPO example or buy aftermarket/Fidelity, which is only two years. The 991.2's are also arguably too refined from the 991.1, none of the admirable quirks of the 991.1. The low rpm rumble, SMFW clattering, mechanical whine of the 3.8 between 8500-9000, has all been filtered out. The 991.2 is also not as good looking or timeless as the 991.1. Lots of tacked on black plastic bits, shark mouth front-end. Ultimately, those cosmetic and visceral/emotional reasons along with an average price delta of ~$50k!! (you could buy yourself a G6 motor with $50k and have Porsche put it in for you) I went with a 991.1, of which most still have 3+ years of factory motor warranty!
If you want a GT3, now is the time to buy. Clean, low mileage examples are getting harder and harder to find. The 992 is FUGLY, and it rides stiffer than an RS. Not a good street car at all. The 992 in general will not age well or go down in history as a classic, like the 991's will. The 911 died when they debuted the 992.
In my opinion the price delta is not so relevant here. Of course, the full market is up. So if you bought a car with the same price as a GT3 before the price surge and that car increased with the same percentage as the GT3s did, the trade-in gap remains te same. However, if values go down, you still take the hit on that just like you would in a normal market situation. Let's assume you want to go back to your original car which moved in absolute and relative terms similair to the GT3 market, and that the market goes down by 20%; your trade-in delta remains the same but you still lost 20% value. One can think of course about ways to minimize this value decrease but that's a different discussion.
That’s why the GT4RS is the one to get. The 992’s are just to large now
@Airbag1010674 you bring up many good points however I completely disagree with you in regards to your 3.8 991.1 vs 4.0 991.2 comparison. Having owned a 2014 GT3 prior to buying a 2018 a few years ago I couldn’t go back to the 3.8 as the 4.0 sounds better, revs better, isn’t nearly as peaky in its torque curve but most importantly if you look into the internals of the engine it’s night/day and that’s why there is such a big delta between the 2 cars. Fact is the 4.0 is very closely related to the RSR race engine and extremely overbuilt/near bullet proof, the 3.8 has more than one known issue in relation to its long term durability
@@jameswillard1 I hear you. I personally like the 991.1 looks much better, and also find it to be more raw. In the end, you can't go wrong with either.
Well this video hasn’t aged very well and it’s only been 2 months.
Prices just keep getting sillier and sillier…
A market update is on its way :)
@@fourwheeltrader looking forward to another excellent video/analysis - thanks in advance 😃
If Stocks and crypto keep, crashing exotics will follow.
If inflation continues will lead to imminent recession and will help you be right, but not only on the GT3 market, in mostly all the other car markets! That's where I will use the cash I got from the sale of 991.2 and buy another!
🤦🏾♂️im never getting one 🤬🤬🤬🤬
Common Sense
Every new car depreciates.
David James West, a Christian man
I just drive 🤷🏻♂️
👍🏽
Would really appreciate it if you could comment on the UK market as you may have a lot of followers from there like myself :D
There are indeed quite a few viewers from the UK and i'm planning to include the UK and German market in the future.
You're positivity is beautiful ❤️. Boost your stats - P r o m o S M!
Every time I watch one of these I sink deeper and deeper into depression. Come on crypto investments ;-P
sunk then bruv