Thanks for doing this comparison. I like the PS4S on the original rims and I am disappointed with the change. You've verified my suspicions that the new combination is heavier. IMO, the PS4S has a better reputation. Can't wait to see the track results.
@@vandkay5439 Had to put Pirelli PZ4s on my 2020 M3 Performance as there was a two month wait for the Michelins - and that was a Michelin estimate as they didn't have any in the factory, so it was based on when they were next planning to make some! To me they definitely feel more nervous - I never had any slip with the Michelins and I've had over and understeer and wheel spin when accelerating hard with the Pirellis. Also, since I couldn't get the noise cancelling ones, they're noisier. Only 2 months left on the lease though, so not too worried 😏
I had a 2020 M3P with the Michelin tires (sadly got wrote off), now I drive a 2021 M3P with the P-Zero. I can confirm that the grip was noticeably better with the Michelins, which is what I will set on my uberturbines when the time comes. …most noticeable is the wheel grip loss from instant torque, probably x2 less with the Michelins. Ps; the uberturbines don’t crack as easy, two did on my 2020 model!
I’ve got the turbine and Michelin PA4 combo . Last day when there was a lot of snow I tried driving in highway a bit faster than the rest . Then coming back home I took the back roads when snow still fresh and I could say they keep me on the road . I’ll stick with it with my TM3P 20 inch wheels.
@@rashednewaz7645 wheels not breaking easily should be a given. Performance wise though lighter the better even with range. There are videos of people getting 10-20% more range with light 18in wheels
@@Itzryan288 that’s a given with any car lol people want looks 👍🏼 people with teslas like myself care more about looks that’s why we go with aftermarket wheels
I agree with all the positive comments. This is the information I have been looking for. I find that the 18 inch rims, tires and suspension are hard/bouncy on my 2021 SR+, I think I am glad I stuck with this model for my type of driving.
This is the kind of well thought out detail I've been hankering for on a video. Well done. I found the comments about new tyre being harder on the road very worrying should I consider upgrading from my original 3P. Yes not the black but the lovely chrome. I find the balance perfect at the moment - steering feel vs road hardness and honestly worry it could be just too hard for every day driving.
Thanks for the positive comments! I'd say the only way to be sure is to get a test drive in one of the refreshed cars. There's also the option of swapping to different wheels and/or tyres if you really don't get on with the factory fitted options.
Can we see some more data on wear, efficiency, costs, rolling resistance, noise dampening, and any EV Specific comparisons. Michelin versus Pirelli, or are there any other tires in the same class? Thank you!
I suspect that wheel/tire combo is more aerodynamic because the rims stick out further than the tires. There have been complaints in the past about 20" wheels getting damaged by potholes. This particular combination of 9" rims and 235 tires might make the rims more bulletproof against those potholes, I don't know. But it's possibly one of the reasons that this combo of wheel/tire was chosen. So the positives: 1) More aerodynamic, 2) More resistant to pothole damage, and the negatives: 1) More feel of the road, 2) Little bit less tread life.
@@MaxKosenko I don't know. I don't want to be the one to test that. :-) It might be that only 3% of the Model 3s will be damaged by potholes, but 100% of the Model 3s will be benefitted by the better aerodynamics of the uberturbine wheels. The new 18" and 19" Tesla wheels appear to be targeted at increasing aerodynamics, so it's a good bet that the 20" are an attempt at doing the same thing.
that means you don't have the heat pump, heated steering wheel, matrix LED lights, chrome delete or updated center console? Changing out undesirable wheels is worth it for those upgrades.
@@someguyonaguitar chrome delete can be done for a few hundred dollars and center console looks better on previous gen models. Only thing is really the heat pump
I got a 2023 Tesla Performance I was confused on why mine came with P Zero. I still don’t know if I liked them more than Michelin’s only been driving for a day.
I hate how the 2021 to 2023 Uberturbine wheels and tires look. When I got my 2022 Model 3 Performance, the first thing I did was ordering a new set of wheels and tires from T-Sportline. I got the Aftermarket Arachnid style (TSS 20) 20" staggered 8.5" front and 10" rear. The tires are the very same Michelin Pilot Sport that used to come with the older wheels, but different size for the rear, so the fit is perfect since my front wheels are now 8.5" wide using the 235/35-20 tires and the rear have 275/30-20 tires. I could technically go with 245 in the front and 285 or even 295 in the back to make them real wide which not only looks better and gives more traction but also protects the rim outer border from scratches much better, but it would mean less range and technically a bit of less acceleration. I will be thinking about it later on when it is time to replace my tires (I am about half way with around 10K miles on them). One thing I made sure to select was the tires WITHOUT the foam inside. It has been proven by many people using electronics that the foam does not reduce noise, and if it does, it is so minimal that it is not worth the price and more important, the problems they create when they get a nail, which most tire shops will not patch them and will ask you to buy new ones instead. Just not worth it. If you want less noise, just get some sound deadening foam for your Tesla and be over with it.. or get the new Model 3 Highland that has more noise canceling parts like the glass on the windows. Also, the new wheels I got are a bit lighter so that is another plus. I am very happy with the package I got, the day I decide to sell my Tesla, I will be looking into either a new Model 3 Performance (Ludicrous??) or if I can afford it, a Model S Plaid, and I will be for sure getting again a new set of wheels and tires from T-Sportline, hopefully they will continue to sell the Arachnids, they look amazing, and they are a better deal than stock ones, even for the Model S Plaid, as the package is cheaper than adding the original Arachnid wheels when you order it, and you can sell the stock ones with brand new tires right after just like I di recovering at least half the money. It is just the right option.
it would be interesting to see the difference in range efficiency (if any), it looks like over the years Tesla is moving towards rims with a straighter profile (it happened also for the model S), I guess in order to improve aerodynamics? They don't look as good though, at least in my opinion. Speaking of efficiency, I find it very weird that in this case the new ones are actually heavier...
They would be more efficient due to being thinner. Less rubber on the road means less rolling resistance. And the wheels are more aerodynamic. At highway speeds the weight of the wheel doesn't matter because its already in motion. The weight would have an impact on acceleration and breaking, but negligible on highway efficiency. Looks like a double bonus for range, but I like rubber and my lighter wheels on my '19 M3P
I believe I watched a video from Engineering Explained, and he mentioned that his rims broke after hitting a pothole. And it was a common issue with the rims on the first M3P and that the new rims are heavier but stronger.
Thanks for this video, really in-depth and informative! In the UK do you think it's important to run on different tires to these through the winters? If so what tires would you recommend?
Thanks for the comments. Last winter I fitted winter tyres to my M3P for a few months when it was cold and wet as it is right now here and it was night and day difference in terms of traction and grip (compared to the Michelin PS4S factory fitted tyres), even when there wasn't any snow. The debate shouldn't be whether it's worth fitting different tyres in the winter, but rather which tyres to fit. If you live in the South, an all season tyre might be the best choice whereas if you're in Scotland or the north, I'd say a full winter would probably have more benefits. The popular all-season and winter tyres for Teslas are Michelin Cross Climate/Ultragrip, Nokian WRA4, Vredestein Wintrac/Quadrac, Pirelli Sottozero. Hope that helps!
@@TeslaGurus Awesome thanks. I'm in the South so would probably opt for All-Season. I'd rather not buy additional rims so would want to fit on Uberturbines, any recommendations based on your understanding of them?
If you want to swap tyres on the existing rims and you have the 20" Uberturbines, your choice is going to be limited due to the size, but the Vredestein Quadrac Pro is one I'd recommend which should be available in 235 or 245/35 20.
Hi John. I have seen all your videos (all three 😅) and what I have seen so far is really informative and different from most other Tesla revolving channels I am look forward to follow your channel and get so new tips. Topic suggestion could be something like OBD2 connection for data and track tools. And since you are European based I whole love to here about aftermarket wheels for the European market. Specifically if I can fit 18" wheel on a Model Y and what I need to be aware about when doing so.
Thanks for the postitive comments! We are making lots more, so soon there will be 4 😅. We're planning some in depth data logging/analysis videos for when the weather gets a bit better and track days start here again. We'll also be covering wheels in more detail, although I think it's going to be a while before we see the Y here...
Sound like you have good plan 😉 if not the model Y I can do with fitment for the model 3 performance too 😁 I am on a waiting position for ether a Y or a 3... I just don't like to drive on 19" or bigger, at least not in the winter 🙈 it's always nice to have the choice, and I am not sure the original 18" fits the performance or the Y 🥴 Anyways cheers to you and the channel I will keep my eyes open for video number 4 😊
@@Twe2 No the 18" Tesla wheel won't fit the P models, but there are plenty of aftermarket rims out there that will. Just make sure they accomodate the lip on the P hub.
I always will consider myself a young and sporty driver. I will always like my Tesla's stiff suspension and wheel/ tire setup.if I am not liking it anymore I might be dead or will enjoy a future wheelchair better....
@@TeslaGurus any idea if this would have an effect on range? Wider tyre more rolling resistance or does the rim width drive contact parch width? Example 235 stretched = similar width as 245 not stretched? Thanks in advanced.
You could fit a 245/35 20 or a 255/35 20 to the 20x9 Uberturbine rim, as long as it has a high enough load rating. A 95Y PS4S would be a good choice if you aren't concerned about it not being the TO version homolgated for Tesla. We have fitted non TO Michelins to our Model 3s and have had no concerns.
Hi there John , I understand Tesla did not give any explanation about this change right? what about the noice. Reducing the thread width from 225 mm to 210mm means less friction on the road while driving which means less noice you feel in the car while driving it. On the other hand the rim will be damaged very easily due to the tires does not protect the rim properly. personaly I like the michelin option. I think Tesla should offer that option when you order a new car. which wheels I want?
Hi Jose, I've seen nothing from Tesla about why they changed. Noise is very difficult to measure but when I drove both I'd say there was no difference I could detect. Tesla like to standardise and not allow the customer to have too many options because the cars (at least the Model 3) aren't made to order. I think this is something the customers will just have to sort out for themselves. If they don't like the Pirellis, just sell them on ebay and buy some Michelins! There are also other choices which might tempt Model 3 owners, such as Bridgestone and Goodyear and some owners who live in harsh climates might want to fit all season or even dedicated winter tyres.
Great video! Thanks putting this together. I have a 2020 M3P and just ordered a 2023 M3P. which come with the new Uberturbines. Am I able to put my 2020 OEM (20") wheels with Michelins on my new M3P? I saw that it was a slightly different size rim
Interesting video. I'm actually taking my 2021 M3P that I collected on Dec 17th, back to tesla Edinburgh on 8th January for warranty check as my steering shakes beyond an tolerable level at the 70 to 80 MPH. Driven over 300 miles now so any suggestion of flat spots should have driven out by now. Hadn't previously given thought to the stretched pzero.
Perelli P Zeros should NOT be put on 9" wheels because the sidewall is no longer vertical from the wheel to tread. This makes the Perelli's very susceptible to being pinched when hitting a pothole. 3 flat Perelli's within 6 months is a design flaw. "Stretching is discouraged"
I was just about to book my M 3 Performance here in Canada, and then I see this video. Now I’m totally confused and divided in my head 😒🙈 - I spoke to the Tesla dealership here in Vancouver if the 2021 car could come with the Michelin’s set up, the answer was in the negative.
The wear rating is relative to a control tyre sanctioned by the NHTSA in the U.S. "The wear on tires that are being tested ("candidate tires") is compared to the wear of Course Monitoring Tires (CMT), which are sold by the NHTSA at its UTQG test facility in San Angelo, Texas. Both types of tires are mounted on vehicles that will be driven in a convoy during the test, thus ensuring that the candidate tires and the CMT tires experience the same road conditions. The convoy, typically comprising four or fewer vehicles, will drive 7200 miles on public roads in West Texas. Candidate tire wear will be checked during and after the test, and compared to the wear on the CMT tires from the same convoy. The first CMTs were commercially-available Goodyear Custom Steelguards, and Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company produced all CMT tires from 1975 until 1984. From 1984 to 1991, the CMT tires were produced by Uniroyal. CMT tires are now "specially designed and built to American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) standard E1136 to have particularly narrow limits of variability."
I drive a 2020 M3 Performance with the previous turbine wheels and the Michelin tires. The main issue I’m seeing is that driving the car year round with the summer performance tires brings challenges, especially in the cold weather, ice and snow. Being in the Mid Atlantic means winters aren’t very bad but nevertheless, I see value in replacing these with all season tires. I have done some research and see some good prospects. One issue is that the foam inserts you get in the Tesla provided tires isn’t standard in replacements you get from anywhere else. Then again, I don’t want to pay Tesla nosebleed rates for tire replacements through them. Any recommendations? Also, can you get foam inserts added to any tire to help keep things as quiet as possible? I’m sure it’s obvious I’m no expert in this arena :)
Honestly, the foam inserts don't make a big difference to the noise you hear inside the cabin. As you say, all season and winter tyres generally don't come in 'acoustic' versions with foam in them. If I were you, I'd just pick the best tyre for your location and not worry too much about the foam. We're going to be making some videos soon which will be looking at noise and vibrations and measuring how different tyres and suspension mods affect what you hear and feel in a Model 3.
@@TeslaGurus thank you for this information. I’m beginning to see that the foam inserts are not as important as I initially thought. Like you said, I want to find a good set of tires to replace the ones the car came with when it’s time. By the way, I watched your video on the older vs the newer turbine wheels and learned quite a bit. Don’t know why I didn’t subscribe then and there to your channel. I just fixed that right now
I'm planning to upsize the stock 235/35r20 Pirellis to a 255/35r20 Michelin PS4S for a little more sidewall while retaining the OEM wheels. I think it would also fill the wheel gaps a little better. With a 1/2-inch increase on tire diameter and width, I'm expecting a 50km (30-mile) range loss. Do you think it would be more?
I am running 255/35 20 Michelins on my M3P and the rim protection and look is much better. I can't say how much range loss this will produce but I think it's well worth it!
@@TeslaGurus What about speedometer error? I know with the 235s, the speedometer reads about 1-2mph higher than the actual gps/radar speed. Is it much accurate now or does it underread this time?
@@TeslaGurusfollowing up to see if this is what you would still do. About to replace the tires on my 2022 m3 performance because I’m tired of issues with the Yokohamas
IME All Season or winter tyres are much better in a UK winter, so below 7°C and that's what I do for cars I own. However my Tesla is a company car and I don't get to choose what tyres are fitted. The (old worn) Michelins felt better than the new Pirellis to me in cold conditions. It might swap around in the summer. It's possible it's in my head as I wanted Michelins but couldn't get them...
It is a misconception or at least a misattribution to interpret that the slightly harsher, less filtered ride from the Pirelli is due to its slightly stretched nature. 1st of all, it isn't technically stretched because the section width is still greater than the rim width (if barely), but it is 'more stretched' than the michelin PS4S on the 8.5" wheel. It's also likely that the greater unsprung weight coming from the 2 pound heavier wheel is a bigger factor in the ride difference than the rim width.The bottom line is that this video contains significant misinformation.
Regarding the Michelin’s having “better wear” - does that mean they’ll last longer than the Pirellis (all else being equal)? Does that also imply the Pirellis have better grip? Thanks
Yes, the treadwear number being higher on the PS4S tyre means it should last longer, but that doesn't necessarily mean it has less grip than the P Zero. Our future track test should answer that question.
There is no one standard that tread wear is measured by. It’s kinda just each manufacturer doing their own thing. Such a small difference in rating might be negligible in terms of real world tread wear
@@TeslaGurus As was said you can't compare threadwear between manufacturers. Only within same manufacturer you can kinda use it comparatively, but still can't trust it.
265s would fit OK on these rims, although I've got a set of 19 x 9.5" rims fitted with 265/35 Cup2s for track driving. I always prefer to stick with the recommended rim/tyre width combinations where possible.
Really detailed review- thanks. Really disappointed with these changes. Even worse now for real world driving than the previous tyres in the 3P. Why can’t Tesla offer 19 inch all weather tyres for the 3P for those that want it? I imagine the majority of buyers will drive in the real world as opposed to tracking the car.
Those wheels look to much like a hubcap. After market is the way to go. And does everybody like those dark color wheels what happened to chrome, or aluminum alloy, I like a little color contrast from tire to wheel.
After getting my first Tesla a Performance 3 and kerbing 2 alloys I do feel a bit cheated that the alloys and tyre choice by Tesla have contributed to end result 40 years driving no kerbing so noticeable , my mistake but strange design . And don’t even sell a spray can touch up .
I was initially like that too and was wishing the hadn't changed to uberturbine. That said, when I finally collected my car on the 17th December, I can honestly now say I prefer the look of uberturbines now. Look better in the flesh
I would prefer the Michelin. Stretching it seems like fake fingernails. Something intended to enhance looks actually has the opposite effect. Not an engineers choice.
Frankly in my opinion they ruined the look of the car with these new wheels. Best looks I think are from the old 19s. When I ordered mine the option for 19s was removed... so I have aeros. Which are also mega subjective, but I think the new aeros look way better than these uber turbines
The only place 20x8.5 Uberturbines are mentioned are in the optional winter wheel and tyre package and I actually think that may be a typo anyway as I've not seen a 20x8.5 Uberturbine anywhere else. The M3P is delivered with the 20x9 Uberturbine and clearly that is the wheel we feature in the video.
Really detailed review- thanks. Very disappointed with these changes. Even worse now for real world driving than the previous tyres in the 3P. Why can’t Tesla offer 19 inch all weather tyres for the 3P for those that want it? I imagine the majority of buyers will drive in the real world as opposed to tracking the car.
This channel will blow up. This is great content
Lol. Hope so!
I lol'd at "Hellaflushed?". No idea if that's real, but the fact it could be amused me greatly.
I found the term on the Internet. So it must be true! Lol.
Thanks for doing this comparison. I like the PS4S on the original rims and I am disappointed with the change. You've verified my suspicions that the new combination is heavier. IMO, the PS4S has a better reputation. Can't wait to see the track results.
Can the Michelin PS4S been fitted on these new wheels/rims when the Pirelli wear out?
@@miles267 You shouldn't have any problem switching tires. You might want to get the Tesla-specific PS4S "TO" tires.
@@vandkay5439 thank you for guidance. Am also considering a Michelin Pilot All-Season tire if there is such a thing.
@@vandkay5439 Had to put Pirelli PZ4s on my 2020 M3 Performance as there was a two month wait for the Michelins - and that was a Michelin estimate as they didn't have any in the factory, so it was based on when they were next planning to make some! To me they definitely feel more nervous - I never had any slip with the Michelins and I've had over and understeer and wheel spin when accelerating hard with the Pirellis. Also, since I couldn't get the noise cancelling ones, they're noisier. Only 2 months left on the lease though, so not too worried 😏
Thank you . . . I wait for track test ! ! !
I had a 2020 M3P with the Michelin tires (sadly got wrote off), now I drive a 2021 M3P with the P-Zero. I can confirm that the grip was noticeably better with the Michelins, which is what I will set on my uberturbines when the time comes.
…most noticeable is the wheel grip loss from instant torque, probably x2 less with the Michelins.
Ps; the uberturbines don’t crack as easy, two did on my 2020 model!
I’ve got the turbine and Michelin PA4 combo . Last day when there was a lot of snow I tried driving in highway a bit faster than the rest . Then coming back home I took the back roads when snow still fresh and I could say they keep me on the road . I’ll stick with it with my TM3P 20 inch wheels.
Not even close... go with the Michelin’s and the older wheels!
very in-depth review! Pirelli PZ4 is the tire fitted to every 992 Porsches but I talked to many porsche guys and they very much prefer the old PS4s.
I actually like the PS5
thanks for the amazing detailed video, very insightful and i'm kind of happy now to have the old one... xD
Great videos so far Tesla Gurus. Insightful and well thought out content delivery.
I think the Uberturbines look amazing, really makes the Performance version stand out.
they're really heavy, all form no function
@@Itzryan288 Actually, the old wheels used to break easily so that's why they changed it.
@@rashednewaz7645 wheels not breaking easily should be a given. Performance wise though lighter the better even with range. There are videos of people getting 10-20% more range with light 18in wheels
@@Itzryan288 that’s a given with any car lol people want looks 👍🏼 people with teslas like myself care more about looks that’s why we go with aftermarket wheels
I agree with all the positive comments. This is the information I have been looking for. I find that the 18 inch rims, tires and suspension are hard/bouncy on my 2021 SR+, I think I am glad I stuck with this model for my type of driving.
Thanks for the comment! Hope you carry on enjoying your SR+.
Another quality video 👌
Glad you enjoyed it!
This is the kind of well thought out detail I've been hankering for on a video. Well done.
I found the comments about new tyre being harder on the road very worrying should I consider upgrading from my original 3P. Yes not the black but the lovely chrome. I find the balance perfect at the moment - steering feel vs road hardness and honestly worry it could be just too hard for every day driving.
Thanks for the positive comments! I'd say the only way to be sure is to get a test drive in one of the refreshed cars. There's also the option of swapping to different wheels and/or tyres if you really don't get on with the factory fitted options.
Can we see some more data on wear, efficiency, costs, rolling resistance, noise dampening, and any EV Specific comparisons. Michelin versus Pirelli, or are there any other tires in the same class? Thank you!
A video on UK Model 3P aftermarket wheel/tyre options would be great (including 19” wheels).
Coming soon!
@@TeslaGurus Great- thanks.
@@TeslaGurus Also looking forward to this one!
Great video! very informative and straight to the point. Would love to see more about teslas
Keep tuned - more coming very soon...
Interesting and informative can sometimes get overlooked within the euphoria of the car itself.
Just ordered a M3P, Planning on ditching those curb magnets for some proper 19x10 Volks on fatty tires!
Which volks will you get? It will run you $1k per wheel 😜
@@cyprianskiba8768 ended up doing some house renos so no volks yet, but i want some TE37s
@@randomhobbyist99 I had TE 37‘s on my Mitsubishi evolution.
I would personally go an inch smaller wheel and wider tires. It looks better and will be lighter and be more comfortable
I totally agree but you can’t go an inch smaller because the wheels wouldn’t fit over the calipers.
TSL 18” fit ok.
@@markharris8929
Yes!
Very good to know, I thought it was exactly the same as previous wheels!
Interesting to note: the tread width you measured for the Pirelli is higher than listed on tire rack.
Did the track video ever come out??
Very interesting and good comparison. But why didn’t you use the two different tires on the same model of the year 2021?
I suspect that wheel/tire combo is more aerodynamic because the rims stick out further than the tires. There have been complaints in the past about 20" wheels getting damaged by potholes. This particular combination of 9" rims and 235 tires might make the rims more bulletproof against those potholes, I don't know. But it's possibly one of the reasons that this combo of wheel/tire was chosen. So the positives: 1) More aerodynamic, 2) More resistant to pothole damage, and the negatives: 1) More feel of the road, 2) Little bit less tread life.
It's going to be even worse in potholes.
@@MaxKosenko I don't know. I don't want to be the one to test that. :-) It might be that only 3% of the Model 3s will be damaged by potholes, but 100% of the Model 3s will be benefitted by the better aerodynamics of the uberturbine wheels. The new 18" and 19" Tesla wheels appear to be targeted at increasing aerodynamics, so it's a good bet that the 20" are an attempt at doing the same thing.
245 tires are a better fit for 9" rims. @MaxKosenko is spot on, the Pirelli's are worse for pot holes
@@SFHonky On the Tesla store, they sell a 19" tire/rim combo that has 235/40/19 tires.
I am so happy I got my model 3 performance before this update. Those wheels looks awful and the Pirelli tires are no good either.
that means you don't have the heat pump, heated steering wheel, matrix LED lights, chrome delete or updated center console? Changing out undesirable wheels is worth it for those upgrades.
@@someguyonaguitar chrome delete can be done for a few hundred dollars and center console looks better on previous gen models. Only thing is really the heat pump
@@ethanmittler3682 fair. The matrix led lights are better too according to Bjorn. Not sure if you can swap those for cheap
great video. what about driving each tire in cold weather conditions?
Thanks! It was fairly cold that day but we're planning more tests including on track and on a skid pan, so stay tuned.
Can you swap the new uberturbine for the older turbine wheels on the Pirellis?
Yes, in fact they will be less stretched on the older 8.5" rims, so won't look so odd. (IMO)
As soon as I take delivery, those wheels are the first thing to go
Michelin make a 245 aspect tyre for the 9 inch rim.....
I got a 2023 Tesla Performance I was confused on why mine came with P Zero. I still don’t know if I liked them more than Michelin’s only been driving for a day.
Very interesting video, thank you so much for your expertise! Learned something new about the tires 😁🙏🏼
Thats a downgrade, was expecting atleast ligther wheels... Will need to buy aftermarket for me :))
I hate how the 2021 to 2023 Uberturbine wheels and tires look. When I got my 2022 Model 3 Performance, the first thing I did was ordering a new set of wheels and tires from T-Sportline. I got the Aftermarket Arachnid style (TSS 20) 20" staggered 8.5" front and 10" rear. The tires are the very same Michelin Pilot Sport that used to come with the older wheels, but different size for the rear, so the fit is perfect since my front wheels are now 8.5" wide using the 235/35-20 tires and the rear have 275/30-20 tires. I could technically go with 245 in the front and 285 or even 295 in the back to make them real wide which not only looks better and gives more traction but also protects the rim outer border from scratches much better, but it would mean less range and technically a bit of less acceleration. I will be thinking about it later on when it is time to replace my tires (I am about half way with around 10K miles on them). One thing I made sure to select was the tires WITHOUT the foam inside. It has been proven by many people using electronics that the foam does not reduce noise, and if it does, it is so minimal that it is not worth the price and more important, the problems they create when they get a nail, which most tire shops will not patch them and will ask you to buy new ones instead. Just not worth it. If you want less noise, just get some sound deadening foam for your Tesla and be over with it.. or get the new Model 3 Highland that has more noise canceling parts like the glass on the windows. Also, the new wheels I got are a bit lighter so that is another plus. I am very happy with the package I got, the day I decide to sell my Tesla, I will be looking into either a new Model 3 Performance (Ludicrous??) or if I can afford it, a Model S Plaid, and I will be for sure getting again a new set of wheels and tires from T-Sportline, hopefully they will continue to sell the Arachnids, they look amazing, and they are a better deal than stock ones, even for the Model S Plaid, as the package is cheaper than adding the original Arachnid wheels when you order it, and you can sell the stock ones with brand new tires right after just like I di recovering at least half the money. It is just the right option.
235 on a 9 inch rim - no thanks
it would be interesting to see the difference in range efficiency (if any), it looks like over the years Tesla is moving towards rims with a straighter profile (it happened also for the model S), I guess in order to improve aerodynamics? They don't look as good though, at least in my opinion. Speaking of efficiency, I find it very weird that in this case the new ones are actually heavier...
They would be more efficient due to being thinner. Less rubber on the road means less rolling resistance. And the wheels are more aerodynamic. At highway speeds the weight of the wheel doesn't matter because its already in motion. The weight would have an impact on acceleration and breaking, but negligible on highway efficiency. Looks like a double bonus for range, but I like rubber and my lighter wheels on my '19 M3P
I believe I watched a video from Engineering Explained, and he mentioned that his rims broke after hitting a pothole. And it was a common issue with the rims on the first M3P and that the new rims are heavier but stronger.
Thanks for this video, really in-depth and informative! In the UK do you think it's important to run on different tires to these through the winters? If so what tires would you recommend?
Thanks for the comments. Last winter I fitted winter tyres to my M3P for a few months when it was cold and wet as it is right now here and it was night and day difference in terms of traction and grip (compared to the Michelin PS4S factory fitted tyres), even when there wasn't any snow. The debate shouldn't be whether it's worth fitting different tyres in the winter, but rather which tyres to fit. If you live in the South, an all season tyre might be the best choice whereas if you're in Scotland or the north, I'd say a full winter would probably have more benefits. The popular all-season and winter tyres for Teslas are Michelin Cross Climate/Ultragrip, Nokian WRA4, Vredestein Wintrac/Quadrac, Pirelli Sottozero. Hope that helps!
@@TeslaGurus Awesome thanks. I'm in the South so would probably opt for All-Season. I'd rather not buy additional rims so would want to fit on Uberturbines, any recommendations based on your understanding of them?
If you want to swap tyres on the existing rims and you have the 20" Uberturbines, your choice is going to be limited due to the size, but the Vredestein Quadrac Pro is one I'd recommend which should be available in 235 or 245/35 20.
Hi John.
I have seen all your videos (all three 😅) and what I have seen so far is really informative and different from most other Tesla revolving channels I am look forward to follow your channel and get so new tips.
Topic suggestion could be something like OBD2 connection for data and track tools.
And since you are European based I whole love to here about aftermarket wheels for the European market. Specifically if I can fit 18" wheel on a Model Y and what I need to be aware about when doing so.
Thanks for the postitive comments! We are making lots more, so soon there will be 4 😅. We're planning some in depth data logging/analysis videos for when the weather gets a bit better and track days start here again. We'll also be covering wheels in more detail, although I think it's going to be a while before we see the Y here...
Sound like you have good plan 😉 if not the model Y I can do with fitment for the model 3 performance too 😁 I am on a waiting position for ether a Y or a 3... I just don't like to drive on 19" or bigger, at least not in the winter 🙈 it's always nice to have the choice, and I am not sure the original 18" fits the performance or the Y 🥴
Anyways cheers to you and the channel I will keep my eyes open for video number 4 😊
@@Twe2 No the 18" Tesla wheel won't fit the P models, but there are plenty of aftermarket rims out there that will. Just make sure they accomodate the lip on the P hub.
Thanks.
I always will consider myself a young and sporty driver. I will always like my Tesla's stiff suspension and wheel/ tire setup.if I am not liking it anymore I might be dead or will enjoy a future wheelchair better....
And also I liked and subscribed!
So could you put a wider PS4S on the Uber turbine. Say 245 wide? This wouldn't stretch as much?
Yes, you can fit 245 or even 255 width tyres to the 9" Uberturbines and have no stretch and more rim protection.
@@TeslaGurus any idea if this would have an effect on range? Wider tyre more rolling resistance or does the rim width drive contact parch width?
Example 235 stretched = similar width as 245 not stretched?
Thanks in advanced.
@@rossadamdixon Yes, it must affect it, but going 235 to 245 will be marginal.
@@TeslaGurus Would you recommend 245 or 255 width? What difference would you feel between the two?
@@rhsalce Slightly wider tyre will give you slightly more grip
Hi, is it possible to change the M3P21 tyres for Michelin then, and would they be the Pilot Sport 4 S 245/35R20 95 Y?
You could fit a 245/35 20 or a 255/35 20 to the 20x9 Uberturbine rim, as long as it has a high enough load rating. A 95Y PS4S would be a good choice if you aren't concerned about it not being the TO version homolgated for Tesla. We have fitted non TO Michelins to our Model 3s and have had no concerns.
Hi there John , I understand Tesla did not give any explanation about this change right?
what about the noice. Reducing the thread width from 225 mm to 210mm means less friction on the road while driving which means less noice you feel in the car while driving it. On the other hand the rim will be damaged very easily due to the tires does not protect the rim properly. personaly I like the michelin option. I think Tesla should offer that option when you order a new car. which wheels I want?
Hi Jose,
I've seen nothing from Tesla about why they changed.
Noise is very difficult to measure but when I drove both I'd say there was no difference I could detect.
Tesla like to standardise and not allow the customer to have too many options because the cars (at least the Model 3) aren't made to order.
I think this is something the customers will just have to sort out for themselves. If they don't like the Pirellis, just sell them on ebay and buy some Michelins!
There are also other choices which might tempt Model 3 owners, such as Bridgestone and Goodyear and some owners who live in harsh climates might want to fit all season or even dedicated winter tyres.
Replace the tires with a 245/35 r20
did you use the same settings of comfort , sport, etc and the speeding setting of chill etc?
Yes
Great video! Thanks putting this together. I have a 2020 M3P and just ordered a 2023 M3P. which come with the new Uberturbines. Am I able to put my 2020 OEM (20") wheels with Michelins on my new M3P? I saw that it was a slightly different size rim
Yes, you can!
Interesting video. I'm actually taking my 2021
M3P that I collected on Dec 17th, back to tesla Edinburgh on 8th January for warranty check as my steering shakes beyond an tolerable level at the 70 to 80 MPH. Driven over 300 miles now so any suggestion of flat spots should have driven out by now.
Hadn't previously given thought to the stretched pzero.
Perelli P Zeros should NOT be put on 9" wheels because the sidewall is no longer vertical from the wheel to tread. This makes the Perelli's very susceptible to being pinched when hitting a pothole. 3 flat Perelli's within 6 months is a design flaw. "Stretching is discouraged"
Stretch tires are beter for corners becouse the tire does less wobble
I was just about to book my M 3 Performance here in Canada, and then I see this video. Now I’m totally confused and divided in my head 😒🙈 - I spoke to the Tesla dealership here in Vancouver if the 2021 car could come with the Michelin’s set up, the answer was in the negative.
There will plenty of earlier Model 3 owners who will want to have these new wheels, so just see if you can swap with someone!
Hi would like to ask you a question, Does the 2021 Tesla model 3 performance have external speakers. if you know please reply
Thanks, Ed
No, not UK models.
How much does each tyre cost?
Unless I’m mistaken, tire wear ratings are only comparable to a manufacture’s other tires and not between manufacturers.
The wear rating is relative to a control tyre sanctioned by the NHTSA in the U.S.
"The wear on tires that are being tested ("candidate tires") is compared to the wear of Course Monitoring Tires (CMT), which are sold by the NHTSA at its UTQG test facility in San Angelo, Texas. Both types of tires are mounted on vehicles that will be driven in a convoy during the test, thus ensuring that the candidate tires and the CMT tires experience the same road conditions. The convoy, typically comprising four or fewer vehicles, will drive 7200 miles on public roads in West Texas. Candidate tire wear will be checked during and after the test, and compared to the wear on the CMT tires from the same convoy.
The first CMTs were commercially-available Goodyear Custom Steelguards, and Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company produced all CMT tires from 1975 until 1984. From 1984 to 1991, the CMT tires were produced by Uniroyal. CMT tires are now "specially designed and built to American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) standard E1136 to have particularly narrow limits of variability."
@@TeslaGurus I stand corrected! Thanks for the clarification!
I wish the old wheel was still an option ! It looks better IMO . Could you just add a 245 tyre ? Yes you will loose range but perhaps more comfortable
Yes you could swap to a 245 or even 255 tyre and get better protection against kerbing them as well.
@@TeslaGurus could be a nice test to add a non Tesla tyre to see the difference. 245/35 etc
@@LiquidTVUK Of course, any change to your vehicle from standard should always be reported to your insurers. Good point!
I drive a 2020 M3 Performance with the previous turbine wheels and the Michelin tires. The main issue I’m seeing is that driving the car year round with the summer performance tires brings challenges, especially in the cold weather, ice and snow. Being in the Mid Atlantic means winters aren’t very bad but nevertheless, I see value in replacing these with all season tires. I have done some research and see some good prospects. One issue is that the foam inserts you get in the Tesla provided tires isn’t standard in replacements you get from anywhere else. Then again, I don’t want to pay Tesla nosebleed rates for tire replacements through them. Any recommendations? Also, can you get foam inserts added to any tire to help keep things as quiet as possible? I’m sure it’s obvious I’m no expert in this arena :)
Honestly, the foam inserts don't make a big difference to the noise you hear inside the cabin. As you say, all season and winter tyres generally don't come in 'acoustic' versions with foam in them. If I were you, I'd just pick the best tyre for your location and not worry too much about the foam.
We're going to be making some videos soon which will be looking at noise and vibrations and measuring how different tyres and suspension mods affect what you hear and feel in a Model 3.
@@TeslaGurus thank you for this information. I’m beginning to see that the foam inserts are not as important as I initially thought. Like you said, I want to find a good set of tires to replace the ones the car came with when it’s time. By the way, I watched your video on the older vs the newer turbine wheels and learned quite a bit. Don’t know why I didn’t subscribe then and there to your channel. I just fixed that right now
Both are very nice !
I'm planning to upsize the stock 235/35r20 Pirellis to a 255/35r20 Michelin PS4S for a little more sidewall while retaining the OEM wheels. I think it would also fill the wheel gaps a little better. With a 1/2-inch increase on tire diameter and width, I'm expecting a 50km (30-mile) range loss. Do you think it would be more?
I am running 255/35 20 Michelins on my M3P and the rim protection and look is much better. I can't say how much range loss this will produce but I think it's well worth it!
@@TeslaGurus What about speedometer error? I know with the 235s, the speedometer reads about 1-2mph higher than the actual gps/radar speed. Is it much accurate now or does it underread this time?
@@TeslaGurusfollowing up to see if this is what you would still do. About to replace the tires on my 2022 m3 performance because I’m tired of issues with the Yokohamas
@@discotx3540 Yes, I would fit 255 Michelins myself. The new Pilot Sport S5 is difficult to beat for a road tyre.
@@TeslaGurus Thank you! Does this effect the abs, traction control, etc? Have you noticed a major drop in range?
They updated the tires to these because these tires will lead to more service revenue from potholes.
The aero aspect only works on the LHS.
Keep it up!
Hello, Thanks for the very informative video. Are these tires safe in temperatures under 5°C or 41°F?
Safe as long as you drive to the conditions but an all season or winter tyre will perform much better at lower temperatures.
IME All Season or winter tyres are much better in a UK winter, so below 7°C and that's what I do for cars I own. However my Tesla is a company car and I don't get to choose what tyres are fitted. The (old worn) Michelins felt better than the new Pirellis to me in cold conditions. It might swap around in the summer. It's possible it's in my head as I wanted Michelins but couldn't get them...
It is a misconception or at least a misattribution to interpret that the slightly harsher, less filtered ride from the Pirelli is due to its slightly stretched nature. 1st of all, it isn't technically stretched because the section width is still greater than the rim width (if barely), but it is 'more stretched' than the michelin PS4S on the 8.5" wheel. It's also likely that the greater unsprung weight coming from the 2 pound heavier wheel is a bigger factor in the ride difference than the rim width.The bottom line is that this video contains significant misinformation.
Does anyone know what is the exact model of the performance tire... I need to replace one...
The Pirelli is the PZ4 235/35 20 92Y, the Michelin is the Pilot Sport 4S T0 92Y XL, same size.
Regarding the Michelin’s having “better wear” - does that mean they’ll last longer than the Pirellis (all else being equal)? Does that also imply the Pirellis have better grip? Thanks
Yes, the treadwear number being higher on the PS4S tyre means it should last longer, but that doesn't necessarily mean it has less grip than the P Zero. Our future track test should answer that question.
There is no one standard that tread wear is measured by. It’s kinda just each manufacturer doing their own thing. Such a small difference in rating might be negligible in terms of real world tread wear
@@TeslaGurus As was said you can't compare threadwear between manufacturers. Only within same manufacturer you can kinda use it comparatively, but still can't trust it.
It's called the induction wheel.
This is about the Model 3 not the Model Y. It's the Uberturbine on the Model 3.
I bet even 265 would fit, and it would look a lot better, but probably would consume more power
265s would fit OK on these rims, although I've got a set of 19 x 9.5" rims fitted with 265/35 Cup2s for track driving. I always prefer to stick with the recommended rim/tyre width combinations where possible.
Less rubber contact, less resistance, more miles
Really detailed review- thanks. Really disappointed with these changes. Even worse now for real world driving than the previous tyres in the 3P. Why can’t Tesla offer 19 inch all weather tyres for the 3P for those that want it? I imagine the majority of buyers will drive in the real world as opposed to tracking the car.
Most of us track our performance models. Why do you think the car comes with track mode lol
Basically a compromise for a better aerodinamics and lower risk of potholes
Richard Symonds gets more Tesla related publicity than Elon Musk. He's everywhere on UA-cam.
;)
As much as I like the new Uber rims, seems like the whole set up is a lateral and slow downgrade move by Tesla. Why did they make that decision?
Money?
Those wheels look to much like a hubcap. After market is the way to go. And does everybody like those dark color wheels what happened to chrome, or aluminum alloy, I like a little color contrast from tire to wheel.
Just put my BBS CH-R 8,5x20 with the 4S on my (uncalibrated) scale...
23.9 Kilos, but imho much nicer look than both of the stock wheels. ;)
Get wider Michelin tires on the new wheels.
I wouldn’t mind 16 or 17 inches
Wouldn't fit over the brakes ..
After getting my first Tesla a Performance 3 and kerbing 2 alloys I do feel a bit cheated that the alloys and tyre choice by Tesla have contributed to end result 40 years driving no kerbing so noticeable , my mistake but strange design . And don’t even sell a spray can touch up .
Those 9” rims are undoubtedly meant for the Model Y. Just cost saving using them on the Model 3. Poor show. It’s stopped me ordering a M3P.
It wouldn't be such an issue if they'd just stick 245 tyres on them!
@@TeslaGurus Indeed. The 9" I think is the width of the Track Package wheel and tyre combo you can buy and they do have 245 tyres on them.
@@TeslaGurus I just ordered a M3 Performance, can I keep the wheels and change the tires to 245/35/20?
@@rhsalce Yes, you can as 245s fit the rims better than the 235s supplied from the factory.
literal definition of amoeba effect, tires are fine
And turned on the post notifications.
Honestly hate the new uberterbyns on the 3s (in terms of looks)
I was initially like that too and was wishing the hadn't changed to uberturbine. That said, when I finally collected my car on the 17th December, I can honestly now say I prefer the look of uberturbines now. Look better in the flesh
This new wheel suck bad...
New tires are a step backwards...
treadwear ratings don't mean anything
It’s a downgrade. The new wheels are a no go for me.
I would prefer the Michelin. Stretching it seems like fake fingernails. Something intended to enhance looks actually has the opposite effect.
Not an engineers choice.
Ahh Simons
Ubers are way too heavy at 69 Lbs, totally not worth it
Tesla: Makes the wheels uglier, heavier, less comfortable, easier to curb.
Tesla fans: I like these better!
Frankly in my opinion they ruined the look of the car with these new wheels. Best looks I think are from the old 19s. When I ordered mine the option for 19s was removed... so I have aeros. Which are also mega subjective, but I think the new aeros look way better than these uber turbines
So heavier, uglier, and no longer has Michelin Pilot 4S’s (one of the if not the best tires available) ....thanks for that “update” Tesla 🖕🏽
uberturbines are 20x8.5 not 20x9
Wrong. Tesla Sport wheels fitted to the original M3P are 20x8.5 Uberturbines are 20x9. Did you actually watch the video?
No, you get 20x9 just like everyone else.
@@TeslaGurus then why is the tesla website selling uberturbines wheels 20x8.5
The only place 20x8.5 Uberturbines are mentioned are in the optional winter wheel and tyre package and I actually think that may be a typo anyway as I've not seen a 20x8.5 Uberturbine anywhere else. The M3P is delivered with the 20x9 Uberturbine and clearly that is the wheel we feature in the video.
Your roads are so sketchy
Really detailed review- thanks. Very disappointed with these changes. Even worse now for real world driving than the previous tyres in the 3P. Why can’t Tesla offer 19 inch all weather tyres for the 3P for those that want it? I imagine the majority of buyers will drive in the real world as opposed to tracking the car.
Totally agree, and the small percentage that will be tracking would change tires.
@@johnbradford2892 Exactly right. The new wheel tyre combo could be a deal breaker for many.
Cause it’s a performance model bro. We care more about performance and speed lol. Stick with a long range if you want a grandma car 👍🏼