First Capital Connect - Really a terrible operator? | Failed Franchises #6 - FCC
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- Опубліковано 15 бер 2024
- Hello & welcome to the sixth episode of Failed Franchises. In this series I look at train companies that have failed at their franchise agreements or have been criticised by passengers & industry alike. Today I am looking at FCC, a commuter operator based in London. I look at whether FCC deserve to be called a 'Failed Franchise', or did they deserve their critics!
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Hope you enjoyed this Failed Franchises video! If you haven't already; do like & subsribce - it means so much to me, and makes this passion of mine all the more worthwhile! Do also check out the full Failed franchises series here; ua-cam.com/play/PLF06LywT25Lb3Yg_jGsMAZJS1LA2M3M-A.html
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As a compareison, I took seriously ill om a Greater Anglia service from Bury St Edmunds to Ipswich, the female guard saw I was becoming lucid, she asked if I was ok, she then ran to the rear cab, and grabbed her water and gave it to me, she called Ipswich, and the station manager called 999 and gave the driver permission to ignore the Needham Market stop, upon arrival, the station manager and porters were waiting and they helped me off the train and in to the first class lounge. A first responder arrived a few minutes later, I was becoming more lucid, my blood was tested, and the glucose level was unreadable as it was life threateningly high. He got on his radio to class me as critical and to make sure they had insulin. About 10 mins later, an ambulance arrived, i was put on a stretcher with an Iv drip and given insulin. I spent the next few days in hospital. I was told if it had been another half hour, I would have suffered brain danage, and be in a coma, and died. Greater Anglia staff very possibly saved my life on that day back in 2016
Wow that's incredible! I hope you're all okay now - that's exactly how illness should be dealt with! I hope Thameslink have similar systems in place
@@Vanmanyo sadly it was a taster of what was to come. I have had great experiences travelling on LNER and GA, TPE and Northern….. well erm and as for Arriva, leaving me and about 20 passengers stranded on a bus in Dewsbury, I was in my wheelchair, and another passenger opened the doors and put the ramp down so I could get off.
Worst Crapital Disconnect as I used to call them when I worked at Brighton - up to 2006 weren't the best but slightly better than Connex South Central! They had been run down before this franchise with guards for 12 car operation, based at Brighton being made redundant so they could save money running the 8 car 319's from Brighton as North of the river and the Sutton Loop only used 8 cars - so why have 12's for a part of the network they didn't care about?!
Things got so bad they put a member of staff into the control point at Brighton to make decisions about the service during times of disruption. The decision being "run fast to London Bridge" for 99% of late running as they were only penalised north of the river. They had four paths from Brighton at 5&8 and 35&38 past the hour so anyone for intermediate stations either had to wait for the Rugby/Watford Junction service at '56 past or go via Hove for a faster way to Gatwick. Not ideal given that Hove didn't have lifts at the time.
My favourite was that the last train From Brighton to London was a Thameslink at 23:40 that on Friday and Saturday didn't run. Why? To refresh drivers knowledge of the route via Lewes those two services were meant to go that way. They rarely did so were dispatched empty, at the normal time to work in service from Haywards Heath.
On the subject of first aid provision - it depends on the company and most said to call for an ambulance and offer a first aid kit the passenger can use. I had the biggest of bust ups with management at Brighton when I tried to explain that there was no provision for first aid at Brighton and the excuse given was that we had less than 50 employees. To Hell with the thousands of passengers and if you're wondering how they decided there was less than 50? Thanmeslink crew, Connex (as they were then,) train crew, platform staff, ticket office and travel centre staff, on train cleaners, station cleaners and customer care, were all separate teams... Compare that to South West Trains who pay those wishing to do a first aid course and give an extra day annual leave to those trained in first aid. And another funny one - when the new 375 arrived into Brighton the drivers cab first aid kit was stuck to the wall so you couldn't remove it to go treat someone, just open it up and pick what you needed off the floor and then carry it to the casualty! 😂
I remember often catching the 319s on the BML with FCC. When i tried to take a 319 from St Pancras Thameslink to the BML, they suspended trains because the third rail appreantly went flying.
I used to frequently use FCC as a teenager in the 00's to travel from Bedford down to Redhill (there was the occassional FCC service that ran that way down to Brighton without needing to change, otherwise you'd have to change at East Croydon). Best memory was having not long left Bedford the train came to an abrupt halt and looking out the window seeing a man clambering up the embankment. We were then informed a passenger had forced the doors open and left the train. Sat I believe for the next hour or so while staff members ensured everything was safe and did their job - I remember vaguely hearing somewhere he couldn't produce a valid ticket so decided that was the appropriate response, possibly when the inspector came around.
Getting on at Bedford I always got a seat but by the time the train got to London it was always crammed, even if post rush hour. I wouldn't particularly say I have fond memories of FCC, but I distinctly remember the 319's plying the route from Bedford to Brighton.
Considering the abysmal service First Bus provides in Glasgow, I can’t expect any better
Same goes for First Essex where I live, and First Wales where I study. First is truly the worst service I've ever used.
They completely ran away from Northampton & other towns, giving it all on a silver plate to Stagecoach. First took over the red buses in town, the corporation transport which was actually very good & they destroyed it. They put the fares up, cut the services.... you could see they were just ripping people off AND were uninterested in actually providing the service.
You should do a documentary on FGW/GWR, I’d love to see that! And maybe a failed franchises virgin trains?
My earliest memory of travelling on FCC was in 2013, when my parents took my brother and I to London. It was a class 365. I did enjoy riding on that train. But the only other time I had been on a FCC service was on a 319 from St Albans to London.
The closest I've been is going on an ex FCC 319 with LNWR!
And only now I understand why they’re called WorstGroup
So many awful memories of FCC trains in the Thameslink core - Overcrowded all the time, dirty, hot, and constantly breaking down. Class 700 and GTR have improved the services massively.
However, this series really shows how stupid the franchising model is- just glorified services contracts for politicians to crap on whenever the system they manage inevitably goes wrong.
Yeah definitely! The franchising system is quite a joke and always has been. Just a y for huge corporations to profit even more. John Major promised us "lower fares through rail privatisation" - hope that's gone well John!
FCC were indeed dreadful, the amount of videos on overcrowding at stations prove. However Govia isn't much better and the 700s are the worst trains in the country, built to a price and dictated by useless DfT idiots.
I never rode FCC or knew much about them until this video, great video!
First Capital Connect For Me Were Fine But I Understand Why Some People Aren't a Fan of Them
Great video. I've watched a few of your failed franchise videos now and they are really interesting viewing. Well done.
Thank you!
It’s always a good day when you upload!
Thanks!!
personally (and this is coming from someone who used FCC a lot as I lived on the great northern lines) I had no issues with FCC, but clearly this was the opposite for people on the Thameslink lines - to say GTR improved them is tbh an understtatement
nice video!
As a Brightonian, believe me FCC was AWFUL south of London. The number of times you'd be turfed out at midpoint stations with services cancelled as they sat in the platform, and left waiting with no communication really was astonishing. I now find myself using Avanti sometimes, and getting a sort of dark nostalgia lol
I used them and remember the midday over clouding in London.
I remember the Sutton loop with the message delayed, so I wait a few minutes longer, delayed further, I wait a few minutes more, and so on until they say cancelled about 30 minutes later. This was not a one off, I might have been unlucky, but it seemed to have happened half the times I was there before giving up and choosing some other form of transport. Several of the Sutton Loop stations were within the least used in London, and it is not hard to see why.
this is the one i've had the most anticipation for let's hope u deliver
A fantastic video, Thank you for uploading this video 😊😊😊
Mind you I quite liked First Capital Connect. They could have ordered more Electrostars that were capable of running on all Thameslink routes as 8-Car and 12-Car before the Class 700s were built.
First Capital Connect really didn't have enough stock to run the service, and it seemed very overcrowded. Potentially mentioning the Thamslink programme would have been beneficial - it has absolutely revolutionarised the route, 12 car platforms at all of the core stations, London Bridge throat being completely remodelled, which has greatly improved capacity. As noted the 700s were ordered during FCC, so I wonder if they would've had the Thameslink route problems if they had all the new stock whilst still being FCC.
I doubt it. Just look at Avanti & Transpennine.
This is what i have been waiting for! 😊
13:07 Probably not virgin trains, because they would have had a drop off only rule on southbound trains at Watford Junction, meaning it would have been London Midland or get stranded for that man's journey.
I can't speak for all TOC's but the one I work for as a conductor only allows specific staff to administer first aid (maybe like 1 person at a busy station at best and no on train staff as far as I know) , I can't even give you a plaster 🤪
I used to have the misfortune of using FCC or FFS as i used to call them, between Gordon Hill and Stevenage daily. Admittedly the loading of the train was low but it was quite common to find the hourly Stevenage train terminating at Hertford North instead and having to cycle the rest of the way to work (as the inevitable rail replacement ‘bus didn’t take bikes on board. It was definitely an incentive in learning to drive.
I am loving your Failed Franchises series
Thanks!
I grew up when First Capital Connect ran the Thameslink train services from Brighton Bedford
I feel a bit sorry for FCC because most of their issues were inherited from the previous operator, and it took their whole franchise to sort out, which they lost because the previous operator was so poor.
Operator or operators? Didn't they combine Thameslink and part of WAGN?
FCC ruined Thameslink by removing the branding. FCC didn’t mean anything and glad to say the name has been restored.
@@glenwooded8523 partly, but the majority only care about the train being on time and having enough seats rather than what logo it’s got on it,
@@raakone yes.
Ninth here! I live near the area where First Capital Connect used operate, near New Southgate. I remember the old Great Northern 313s would have the FCC paint right up until their retirement.
Yeah GN definitely just slapped their logo on the side and said jobs done! I guess they always knew that replacements would be coming!
Oh, hi Vanmanyo?! But that's probably the truth. I do miss them though.
First Capital Connect.... Those days, Apart from being told off at Moorgate for not filming a class 313 departing my experiences with them weren't too bad, I am only saying this from my personal experience from riding FCC and the main factor is that I didn't rode them as much as a normal commuter did who suffered with the misery during those 8 years. There was one experience when I was at Loughborough Junction and signal was on red but the train driver quickly made a announcement that we were being delayed. From seeing things from the Internet they were the worst and have seen a lot of bad things about them, but personal experience riding them. Cannot say anything bad about them as I mentioned I didn't rode on them as much. Great video
Thanks Simon! You're footage was invaluable for making this! Sadly I never got to try them out but from what you've seen in the video it didn't paint a brilliant picture! But of course different journeys have differing results - clearly you got quite lucky! It seems they improved with customer service etc but then their stock got gradually worse, shame there wasn't a point where both aspects were good! Thanks again Si!
I remember FCC well. I used to get them a lot as they were cheap AF vs east coast franchise from Peterborough to London. The trains were poorly maintained, and I remember the seats falling off. They smelled and were always dirty. They were overcrowded, and they ALWAYS had the heating on, yes, in the middle of summer!!!
Though, Themeslink brand that runs the line now is also Sh$t. While we have modern trains and much better (on paper) service but they barely run on time and regually get cancelled.
Around 2010 ago, I was travelling from Sittingbourne to St Albans City. Checking the journey planners, it said I could purchase a ticket to St Albans Abbey that was about £3 cheaper and 'walk' between City and Abbey stations, which I wouldn't do as the station was out of my way.
The following year, they closed the loophole by specifying either by FCC only or London Midland only, so I had to purchase the dearer ticket to get to City station. They did offer an even more expensive ticket that said St Albans (any) via any permitted route, but that was almost double the price of the cheaper Abbey ticket.
There was a time when I was on a First Capital Connect train, and it broke down before it could reach it's final destination. This was a class 319 train
Didn't FCC start with services to Kings Cross Thameslink before the Thameslink part of St Pancras opened? And indeed they would've operated to Moorgate on the Thameslink and GN side.
Yes, I have travelled on First Capital Connect before and it was alright as it was on the Great Northern line and was not during the peak, it was a x2 Class 365's and it was a good service, but it did stop at most stations, and then I travelled on the GTR Thameslink and Great Northern brands, Thameslink is the most modern but Great Northern offers the better seats as they are more padded because it was a 387, but as 387's on Great Northern mainly operate fast services between London Kings X and Cambridge normally only calling at Stevenage and Letchworth it was decent however the 700 is modern and the destination screens are more informative but the seats are less comfortable, but as both times I was only going for a maximum of around 40 mins it was alright, on the Thameslink I went from Farringdon - Hitchin and on the Great Northern 387 and FCC 365 I went from London Kings X to Hitchin, but always has been a good service and I give the following ratings
FCC 365 7/10 Slow Journey, stopped at all stops, comfortable seats.
GN 387 7/10 Slow Journey, Most stops, Ironing board seats (amazing padding)
TL 700/1 7.5/10 Fast Journey, Only stopped at St Pancras, Finsbury Pk and Stevenage before Hitchin, Ironing Board seats (decently padded)
although the 700 and 387 seating is more comfortable than you know what japanese unit that is now spreading like knotweed over GWR, LNER, Hull Trains, TPE and lumo. So yes but at least the commuter 387 and 700 do a better job than IEP/IET units for 2 hours.
FCC seemed to be an improvement on WAGN on the GN part of the network and their stock (313, 317, 321 & 365) was generally reliable, although not glamorous. Short formations were sometimes a problem, though. I wasn't a regular user of the Thameslink side, and I think that was generally viewed as worse than GN.
First Capital Connect weren’t as bad since the ordered the Class 377/5 dual voltage trains that were replaced by the Class 700 and went to Southeastern. And First Capital Connect was taken over by Govia Thameslink Railway that merged Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern into one big franchise as we know of today. And with GTR replaced the Class 319 and Class 377/5 as the Class 700s came into service in June 20th 2016.
FCC really were a truly terrible TOC to be honest. They really did try to get away with the minimum investment and service levels possible which made both staff and passengers generally miserable, and the 319s really were 'from the Bronx' - far too old and worn to still be operating a route as high-intensity as Thameslink and they should've acquired newer stock much more urgently than they did.
Never had any issues on FCC the only reason kept running old units is there was little investment in the route as FCC would have got newer units
It was a mistake changing the name from Thameslink too. Thameslink had become well established for the Brighton Bedford services and other associated branches and services which used the core section. Thankfully the name was later reinstated before the major changes at London Bridge came in, enabling the commencement of the Brighton - Cambridge, Horsham - Peterborough, Luton - Rainham and peak hour runs to East Grinstead.
"To call the class 700 "very good" is like calling first groups decision to replace there tilting class 221 with non tilting more uncomfortable more unreliable class 805 a good choice, which by the way would mean the they would only be able to go 110 mph" - critic
Well compared to 319s they are very good!
I think I was on the train when the guy 'collapsed', I had no idea they weren't allowed to help though.
you should make a video about how greater anglia went from worst to best
I have unfortunately found a lot of train staff in and around the capital over the years to be generally unpleasant. I don't envy their job at all but it does seem very different to up here
North & South culture is just generally different. Either way, I'm sure it's difficult being a staff member in any major city, let alone London! Thanks for joining by the way!
First Capital Connect were an interesting one, they certainly weren't good but equally a lot of the issues they faced were a result of fragmentation. That said the fact they often got things completely wrong is bizarre.
The Thameslink and Great Northern routes though should never have really scared a franchise in my opinion and the mega franchise we see now also seems very strange.
I think routes through the core of Thameslink really ought to be classed as Thameslink and a standalone network and franchise. Routes purely south of the Thames would be best as part of Southern and routes only north of the Thames ought to be Overground (for Moorgate services) and Greater Anglia (Peterborough and Cambridge services). Or, and here's a potentially controversial opinion, the Cambridge express service ought to be run by LNER and continue then continue from Cambridge to Ely, Peterborough, Doncaster, Leeds, Newcastle and Edinburgh, really making use of the bi-modes.
I recall their awful service and overcrowding but I didn't know about all the shenanigans with ticketing.
I wasn’t gonna drink tonight, but damn. I miss First Capital Connect
I liked fcc being on the thameslink bed-bright route i though they done ok and i loved the 319s! Best trains ever them! Sadly missed by many on the thameslink route.
I don't remember much, since I was 12 when they ended the franchise, but I can definitely agree that Thameslink is much better now. The 700s aren't comfortable for long journeys but they're very good for a high capacity commuter line.
Yeah I agree with you about the 700s! They aren't great from Bedford to Brighton but for half hour journeys they are perfectly pleasant. Huge capacities and more accessible!
I expect that FCC just blamed Network Rail and the Department of Transport for all their failings despite the fact that they knew all of the problems before they bid for it...."nuffink to do with me guv I just run the trains!"
Why was there so much graffiti on the 319s? I have fond memories of seeing dozens of FCC trains between Bedford and St Pancras.
Overcrowding is 100% not FCC's fault as the Thameslink 2000 project was very overdue. But good video and really makes you wonder how the government even allows First to win franchises.
Hmmm, it appears First Group have a pretty shoddy record with train operations. First Transpenine Express and now First Capital Connect. Wonder what will be next for them, Avanti West Coast?
it was the best operator to me i really miss their class 365
They inherited staff trained by govia they inherited trains from British rail now govia operate class 700s ordered by fcc and serve stations refurbished by fcc and they are one of Britain’s favourite operators strange right?
I wouldn't say Thameslink or FCC are favourites of Brits, but Thameslink isn't a bad operator!
@@Vanmanyo you know what I mean though
I feel like part of the FCC's unpopularity wasn't their fault but a consequence of the Thameslink Programme with all its station and track closures, diversions, etc.
I am very glad that I moved out of London at the right time to avoid that lot..
Only travelled on them once on the Sevenoaks branch, was definitely a downgrade from the Southeastern service (which isn't exactly amazing either).
All I'm saying is.. you can find out about SE soon.... wink wink
So they could not even lie properly.
FCC or Second Backwater Divide?
Good video, thank you. Have to disagree with your comment about the “excellent class 700” trains. These are the most uncomfortable trains on the network. Would be acceptable for short commuter services but journeys of one hour plus are very painful.
I think compared to the 319s and 377s they replaced though they are far more suitable. They have good accessibility, have huge capacities and are relatively reliable!
The design is only supposed to make use of space nothing else. They have bad legroom and thin metal seats to increase capacity. But yeah they need to work on the seats.
It's sad because they had the BEST livery
Worst crapital disconnect was my childhood line since I was born in 09 just 4 years after fcc comes to life
13:12 😮 FCC is just awful. Bad staff not helping injured and people with serious needs, awful trains and delays. Glad this went
I think, by and large, rail franchises are a bad idea. The government pours loads more money into keeping the system going than when it was nationalised.
First group are always at fualt for a lot of things ageing bus /train fleets, expensive fares, unreliable service ect
I call fcc first crapital disconnected
my one issue, the 700s are dual voltage not bi-node
How does First Group get all these Rail Franchise's and the Government just gives them to them and how many failed franchise's has involved First Group.
Yeah there's been a few failed first franchises (talk about a tongue twister!); but I think it's probably because they promise a lot of things so the government thinks they'll do good!?
As you can see from my pfp , i have a roblox shirt showing the 700 in a FCC livery
First group. Really a very shambolic & greedy (the few at the top) company. They don't really care so much about the services they provide, they care more about the greed at the top. Hence why they were caught laughing & joking about getting the West Coat franchise again & failing to provide the expected service. Or their incapability to run bus services in most of the country. They do have gWr which is their brad & butter flagship. SWR, not so much.
First will lose the WCML franchise next.
Thing is I will not ignore the facts but I wouldn't have called it so bad
Hi
I assume they are affiliates of First Transit here in the US.
They were until their rebrand last year when they got brought by Transdev!
@Vanmanyo does provide explanation as tp why the service was horrible.
@@jasonwyland5198 perhaps!!
I’ll bet their shareholders still got paid though…
But climate change is due to climate being cyclic, something that any geographer would understand, although the industrial revolution has speeded up the cyclic nature of climate
I do Alevel geography and climate change whilst it is cyclic there is no doubt that humans are impacting the planet to great effect. If we hit the 1.5 degrees temperature rise then we'll lose a lot of the planet
Used them from Bromley south into Blackfriars, They always smelt of damp .
Now all the 318/9 313/4 etc are now scrapped Thameslink at least do better
This is First Group we're talking about, they're automatically terrible
Whats First Group? I only know Last Group.
@@Mgameing123 Worst Group, as I call them.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF FCC !!!!
They sound about as evil as merseyrail when it come to tickets