Hi all, hope you enjoy the first TOC in this new series! Do check out some of my other videos; I have done a video on Avanti's failings too if you are interested in that! Do consider liking & subscribing too; and even consider joining the channel along with my other amazing members if you want to :) Also, if your video is stuttering or not running smoothly, drop the quality down to 1080p, as that seemed to help when I watched the video on my less-powerful laptop!
The easiest solution at present which could alleviate TPE's overcrowding issues in the short term is to utilize the fleet of Class 175 units which TFW have withdrawn and are currently in storage! It's a disgrace that we have these units sat around whilst there are many operators suffering from a lack of diesel units and overcrowding!
Yes it would be a good option but CJ is absolutely correct, sadly. The 175s also have pretty high maintenance costs to stop them from exploding - if it's cheaper, in the governments eyes, it's better
@@Vanmanyo The government is doing a managed decline on the railways again. The 175's are high maintence but these will only be on TPE for the short term.
What's needed in the UK is basically a modern HST. A dual mode power car solution with intermediate trailer vehicles which can be easily reformed as required. Modern Diesel power units can meet the emissions requirements. Sadly we no longer have places like Crewe, Derby, Swindon and Doncaster that could easily design and concept a solution as they did in the past.
I live in Cleethorpes. We’ve had occasions when there have been 3 hour gaps in service on our TP route. The South Transpennine Route now runs to Liverpool Lime street. They started to introduce the Class 68 loco hauled sets and then they were withdrawn, again noise complaints were cited as the reason. As very few people actually live near Cleethorpes Station and servicing point, I find this hard to believe. Scarborough yes but Cleethorpes No. I went to see my sister in Sheffield last Sunday, catching the first Sunday Morning train out. It was composed of 2 x Class 185 units, the rear 3 car set being locked out of use. This rear 3 car set was detached on arrival at Doncaster ( all TPE trains from Cleethorpes were terminating at Doncaster due to the Hope Valley line being closed for engineering work. This Doncaster termination resulted in a wait at Doncaster of over 59 minutes for the next train to Sheffield. My return journey would have been the same. I ended up returning via Lincoln on Northern and EMR services, with a wait at Lincoln of about 40 minutes.still faster than going back via Doncaster.
BR should never have been privatised. It was run by railwaymen who knew what they were doing but just lacked sufficient funding to be able to run it properly.
The main problem IMHO with TPE is lack of capacity (besides their crew problems). 5 carriage trains just aren't enough for their Scotland-Manchester routes and the core Manchester-Leeds corridor. I broadly like the 802 Nova trains but they really need to be 8 carriages instead. The only 'quiet' TPE trains I've been on have been the Edinburgh-Berwick/Newcastle ones to East Linton etc. I did quite well out of the £1 seat sale so I won't criticise them too much. A lot of their problems have been due to infrastructure problems around Manchester as well and they've partly rectified that by only running the Saltburn service through 13/14 at Piccadilly to The Airport. The Liverpool to Newcastle service that I travelled on between Manchester and Leeds was bang on time but was rammed by Huddersfield. The TPE train that I travelled on between Leeds and York was also 15 minutes late because it made a weird diversion through Wakefield and I almost missed the LNER connection at York.
I used to go back and forth from Durham to Manchester and Liverpool on the Northern TPE back in the late 90's... I love travelling on trains, but hated having to goto Liverpool as it used to take ages
Having travelled a lot over the years from Liverpool on TPE, I think the franchise is neither one thing or another. I agree with what you say about it trying to be a commuter service and intercity. In the morning peak from Liverpool, it's busy until you get to Manchester, then it's pretty much empty until you get to Huddersfield and it's time for sardines. At Leeds it's empty again. Another oddity is how poor the first class service is in comparison to the journey times and I was once refused a second cup of tea from Liverpool and Newcastle in first class. So make that cuppa and the biscuit last!
This is going to be a good series if you research well, which I am sure you will. I gave up including TransPennine in my travel plans a couple of years ago, even if the fare was cheaper than Avanti or LNER. I couldn't help noticing when changing trains at the likes of Carlisle or Preston that there would be a TPE unit stabled somewhere because it had terminated short of destination due to no driver. I was told this problem was exacerbated by TPE changing the rostering of train crews so that they only worked short legs with frequent crew changes en route.
Thank you! When I go to Carlisle there always seems to be a class 397 stabled because it is short of staff etc. I do hope TPE become a bit more reliable now the class 68s have gone, but that means less frequency and less capacity sadly.
On the subject of TPE The Pennine routes especially in The 80's was far worse in terms of infrastructure but here's a rather unusual story about the trains there. The Class 124 sets were built in 1960 at Swindon for Trans Pennine services. Originally of six car sets of which four of the six car were powered and they also included a buffet car but were reduced to five car and then to four car. All Powered cars had the 230hp Leyland Albion engines and towards the late 70's some were merged with ex BR Western Region Class 123's and against the role of play both classes were withdrawn in 1984 in favour of Loco-Hauled Stock hence the unusual story mentioned. Though The North Yorkshire Moors Railway had the idea of preserving one unit due to the panoramic windows but this was not proceeded with due to the prohibitive cost of removing the asbestos on the set.
Hey man! Great video, really interesting. Quick tip though, make sure your editing in a frame rate that matches your b-roll footage of the trains. At the minute the b-roll looks a bit laggy and stuttery as I presume it is shot at a different frame rate to the frame rate of your editing project. I'd recommend editing and shooting in 30fps, but anything will work as long its consistent. :)
Hi! Cheers for the comment! Yeah I think it's cause my camera records in 1080 but I export the video on 4k. Perhaps try watching it on 1080 and see if that's better. I should probably make it 1080p only but can't do that now! See if that works though!
Watching it back I do see your point! I think it's also my editing software and the fact that for this TPE video I actually didn't use much of my content at all, I just used accredited content from other people (hence why it might be a bit juttery, as I have to get that content and process it all etc). My Northern video (newest one) seems a bit better - maybe because it's my own content for the majority! I do try & use my content where possible, but obviously I haven't been able to get footage of every toc ever!
Living Cleethorpes I have to us TPE most of the time, I truly hate class 185, always cold in the Winter and hard seats after hour sat in one. Other than the lack of service in 2020s until the start of 2024, they are not doing to bad a job. Remembering a lot of enginering work along both on the Hope valley line and Leeds to Manchester up grade.
Great Video! TPE customers have really been through it in recent times. Would wonder what would’ve happened if the Nova order was exclusively 802s, in a large order to ensure that all 185s were run as 6 cars long. Would’ve made the crew training problems a lot less of a problem. Reliability could’ve been so much better if Platforms 15 and 16 were built at Piccadilly, and I have no clue why the TRU electrification is going at such a snails pace. Manchester to Leeds needs electrification asap. I also want to note how Andy Burnham was eager to have a go at TPE for P-Coded cancellations, when Northern (under the OLR) were doing the exact same thing during that time.
Whilst researching for Northern video, I noticed Burnham did call Arriva out several times over their tenure! But I don't think on P-code cancellations especially (just cancellations in general). Thank you though!
Great video it does remind me a night in Cleethorpes in December 2022 no tpe trains just emr(local service) i thought at the time how bad tpe was they have improved a bit but i still don't really trust them as a train operator.
I still think that Transpennine Express should improve their services because they have struggled a bit despite they have ordered new rolling stocks and are no longer using the Nova 3 Class 68+Mk5s. Which have now gone for storage.
Other issues that TPE have is that the infrastructure is not robust. Let's say Newcastle to Liverpool. If anything goes wrong (staff wise or infrastructure) can not terminate at York as no North bay platforms, can't block a through line, same at Leeds and same at Manchester Victoria. So where do you put a train that needs to terminate short... Answer is nowhere. So, cancel it at origin because it's already accommodated. Trains in the north have got longer but the platform space is still the same.
I would think since there isn't enough 66s about and you can't buy them anymore that 68's could do more container work. One did a driver change in WBQ the other week for the first time, I'm hoping its a regular feature now.
I live in Manchester and I use SailRail to travel home to family in Ireland via Holyhead to Dublin - changing trains from Manchester Piccadilly (platforms 13 & 14) via Chester, Crewe & Lladnuo to Holyhead on TfW & Avanti is a real pain - and I’ve been doing this for 22 years, daytime and overnight, summer & winter - very few direct trains from Manchester to Holyhead to meet ferry check-in and arrivals at Holyhead, with a 4 hour wait at Holyhead on arrival from Ireland to get to Manchester is totally unacceptable - maybe if the Irish government follows EU climate change directives and bans all short-haul flights between Ireland and the U.K. it will force an improvement in the dismal service - another strange thing is with Northern Rail from Manchester Victoria, it does not stop at Parkway (the nearest station to Liverpool Airport) and carries on to Liverpool Lime St - Ferry companies from Liverpool to Dublin only operate from Birkenhead and don’t accept foot passengers on SailRail where they should be operating from Liverpool old port or even the Manchester Ship Canal at Salford Quays (Deansgate Castlefield to Imperial War Museum Metrolink) with smaller foot passenger only vessels, which could also operate further up the Liffey Channel at Dublin as far as the Custom House or O’ Connell Bridge
It seems air travel has absolutely killed any sort of good rail transfers from ferries, hopefully this can change soon! It would certainly make your life easier!
@@Vanmanyo Historical case in point was that dedicated direct express trains used to operate from Manchester Victoria to Liverpool old port for the ferry to Dublin (Dun Laoire, not North Wall), despite the 8 hour ferry crossing time, as opposed to 3 hours from Holyhead to Dublin - and frankly, I find the journey from Manchester to Holyhead really tiring - at Dun Laoire, they have easy DART connections into Dublin Pearse, Tara St & Connolly, where the LUAS Trams operate to Dublin Hueston - at Dublin Port North Wall, the LUAS does not even serve the Irish Ferries/Stena passenger terminals, where Dublin Port (North Wall) has been expanded to take cruise ships, the railways only catering to freight trains around Dublin Port despite the passenger/commuter use of Liffey Junction and the Phoenix Park Tunnel - Dublin Port is also served by the M50 and the Port Tunnel motorways, catering to trucks
Another issue with TPE issue was the Liverpool - Leeds - Edinburgh service. TPE were already to go live and chip away at the Leeds - Edinburgh market and undercut the XC service in price. However just before going live, LNER, government run challenged DFT about the running. DFT sided with LNER so TPE had to run the service as two separate services, but by the time the DFT ruled, the only paths from Newcastle to Edinburgh were behind the freight paths. This destroyed the business case for TPE and had to adapt quickly.
Issue is 5 car sets were needed to negate short platforms across the network! More 5 cars could've been ordered to double up more services as 10 car though
Is it fair to leave it as most hated? Things have changed somewhat since the time you made that declaration, it wasn’t good but there were others in similar or worse depending on which one you need to travel with. Also, following the media reports for P coding and the withdrawal of 68/Mk5 makes you just as wrong as they were. I’m not sure conjecture and sniping is a good theme for a series unless you never want to work in the industry.
Hey I appreciate your concern and will change the title shortly as they have improved since making the video - you are correct there (although still not perfect of course). Thank you!
The 185's are totally inadequate, unless doubled up which they rarely were although thankfully generally are now, for the core TPE area.A 185 is effectively 2 and a half carriage train.Whoever designed these 185's along with TPE must have known what would happen as they only had to look at what happened on Virgin XC when plutocrat Sir Richard Branson and railway expert replaced longer trains with Voyagers.
The 185s would have been excellent if they'd had five cars and corridor connections at each end. I travelled between Newcastle and York several times a month for work, and soon learned to avoid Cross-Country's Voyagers because they were uncomfortable and pre-covid were almost always dirty, and tried to make sure I never returned from York on a 185 because they would arrive full and standing or so full it was impossible to get on. How I miss the 91+Mk4 sets, the last trains designed by people who understood trains...
Totally agree. Stagecoach weren't perfect, but they did a pretty good job of operating one of the busiest routes in the UK through and into the busiest stations in the country. Made me laugh when people on social media were happy that Stagecoach lost the franchise. I thought then, be careful what you wish for. Got to say First didn't disappoint, they turned it into a shambles. Now, the weekday Waterloo to Guildford and Dorking via Epsom services under First are what Stagecoach offered on a Sunday. Epsom at peak times had six trains per hour from Waterloo, now it's just two.
Govia SE was quite a simple issue. The franchise was up anyway and DfT said that SE had not fully given back all money owed - something to do with HS1 fees and running less trains on HS1 during COVID. Since the DfT have taken over all that is happened is a new worse timetable got introduced.
Hello , Over crowding or big issue for sure I think 5 coaches is not enough for them I think more 9 coaches would be more suitable. I think you should look into Scotrail threre owed by Scottish Government since April 2022 . And I think you should do LNER Government owed cause they got took over from failed Virgin Trains East Coast franchise somthing about coast of running the line. Great video on Transpennie Express.
Thank you! There's so many operators I could make videos on (which highlights how bad privatisation has been!). I think due to platform lengths etc TPE are limited to 6 car trains, but many are 3 cars. Thank you again
@@Vanmanyo I know they run three cars on the diesel Siemens trains but 5 on CAF’S and Hitachi sets. I know LNER are getting new CAF’S in 2026 I think but there going to 3 modes , diesel, battery or electric Run depends on what route permits what mode , I wouid think running on batteries will be slower than diesel . I know most trains on diesel limted to 80- 100 mph exceptions of the Voyager sets than can run 125MPH that’s due to be replaced by 800 sets of Hitachi with Avanti West Coast.
@@Bungle-UKhave to agree with you there. Also along with the fact that stations such as Huddersfield can’t really extend their platforms much more than they already are at the moment. However the TRU plays out might change that, but doesn’t change the fact that even a 6 car 185 set has to squeeze in like the passengers onboard said train 💀
Virgin Trains aren't no! I think it would be interesting to go through the history of the three franchises Virgin ran (Cross Country, West Coast & East Coast!)
The usual people think nationalisation is some magic solution, but things have to got worse on the Hull line in the past year. We now regularly only have 3-car trains (we’ve never seen any of the new TPE rolling stock) and most Hull-Manchester services are up to 25 mins slower than they were 30 years ago. The main issues with TPE in recent years was the over complicated fleet caused by ordering too many small numbers of different units, and the scumbag unions encouraging staff to engage in pointless industrial action over petty issues like scanning e-tickets.
Nationalisation might work if we had competent politicians. Don't hold your breath. Private operations might work if we had competent managers and investors. Don't hold your breath. Forty years ago I worked in Italy. The railways were underfunded, strike-prone, but very cheap and almost every station had a bar ... but the arrivals board at Torino PN often showed trains from the south 12 or more hours late. Some trains, even long distance ones, included the infamous pre-war Centoporte slam door stock with wooden seats. Italian friends visiting the UK were very impressed by the HST. Cut to today. We have a short high speed line from the Channel to St Pancras, built to French LGV specifications. HS2 is an unfinished disaster which has cost far more per mile than any other high speed line anywhere in the world. Meanwhile, back in Italy, there are two high speed train operating companies running on new infrastructure that connects all the major cities. This despite the fact that Italy has lots of mountains, frequent earthquakes, and a couple of volcanoes. England does not, so what's our excuse?
@nowapproachingyt Wrexham and Shropshire weren't a franchise though. They were an OAO which was squashed by Virgin WC forcing them onto a less than ideal routing and then creating a more direct alternative to finish them off.
In the 2010s southern were regarded as the worst operator, they were a laughing stock. Now they are reaosonably respected. www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/southern-rail-uk-worst-train-service-2017-third-year-row-which-thameslink-great-northern-a8162516.html
OLR has made a huge improvement to TPE, sure there is still a big overcrowding issue but the current service is a huge improvement on early 2023 when I would just assume any TPE service up the ECML would be cancelled.
@@Vanmanyo grew up in South London so Connex was close to my heart. I actually remember the day at Waterloo East when I was handed a leaflet saying that CSE was being repossessed by the government. I’m sure I have that leaflet somewhere lol
In a world of arcane 'parliamentary services' it is particularly galling that a company like TPE failed through having too many passengers! The reach of de-nationalisation is as long as it is insidious.
Great video on a very sad and 25-year long political-economic grift. Transport has never been easy to profit from, but the franchise model is financialisation on steroids. When we (gov’t by law) split ownership (very rentable) from the company running trains they lease, on infrastructure they also rent - the money spent by passengers go right through to the owners of all the stuff. Not the “users” with tickets or staff. As everyone looking at property or financial assets knows - that’s the part of “the economy” that actually works. Franchise in debt, expenditures converted to capital in a different company - not into transport itself… Before Thatcher (and Nixon) this scheme was illegal. Today it has been fully legal for decades. And we don’t see the connections to us (people) losing grip…? 😅
The whole system just seems a bit corrupt and illogical. I hope Labour's nationalisation plan (assuming they win) can change rail for good Thank you though!
@@Vanmanyo Oh, by all means…! 😀 That’s the thing, the illogical part. We’ve been *convinced* that every ‘private initiative’ is efficient, rational, productive and so on. The real logical breach is that the very same issues are experienced all over Europe, and indeed here in rich (?) Norway - No EU or Brexit to blame. And very different PMs or presidents - coincidence or causation…? Economists Stephanie Kelton or Mark Blyth have good explanations, plenty here on YT. Best of luck with the series…! 👍 (edit: and a sub, forgot that…)
@@musiqtee it's a highly interesting debate and you put up some very good points! I'll have to watch this economists at some point too! I appreciate the subscription and thanks again :D
Being short of rolling-stock is a rubbish excuse but it's been this way for years. TPE like many other operators could have refurbished HST stock as a temporary measure - lets face it from 2018 onwards availability of mk3 stock and power cars would have proven an excellent stand in. The noisy 68 issue was simply not addressed at all. At least people ordering the 197 etc fleets have the ability to put units together to solve overcrowding. TPE could never figure out if it was an all stops service or an express major stops only service. Honestly the crosscountry routes in the north are awful when it comes to speed and fiddling about with layouts to get an extra 10mph does little.
I am glad they have gone they treated Hull passengers like dirt axing the Manchester Airport direct service when they took over, axing the catering trolley which had previously been offered when Arrival ran the franchise, making the service slower by adding additional stops. Passenger never asked for all this. Good riddance!
I mean that’s how Hull passengers see it, but think about the people that use the newly added stops, like me. I’d say you win some you lose some in these terms (:
@@markwillis2800 because the saltburn service is the Manchester airport service, and I believe that wouldn’t go down well for people trying to get from not just Middlesborough to Man Air, but also Leeds and maybe even Dewsbury (naturally us yorkshires want to escape reality and go to the tax haven that Tenerife isn’t)
TPE are absolutely the worst operator I have ever travelled with… I’ve had issues nearly every time with them and up until recently they were the only choice to travel from Hull to Leeds directly which is a trip I make regularly however Northern thankfully operate the same route now albeit on a slower stopping service, regardless of that I actively avoid TPE now as although Northern aren’t perfect they’re a million times better than the aforementioned excuse of a TOC
It’s a repeat of the Beeching cuts of the 1960’s - if we are to have a viable alternative to flying and air travel in these days of climate change and 15 mins smart cities, where mainland Europe’s railways are far better than the U.K., where the money wasted on HS2 could have been used to either maintain the existing railways, link HS1 to HS2 or develop a high speed rail link (undersea tunnel) between Holyhead - Dublin or have a high speed link between the ECML and the WCML - Network Rail is no longer fit for purpose and needs to get scrapped due to its financial mismanagement and wastage of public funds - rail fares constantly go up but the standards of service consistently go down compared to the rest of Europe, where even the trains in the former Soviet Bloc countries of Eastern Europe are way better than the U.K. - it’s a sad state of affairs from when the Victorians in the U.K. gave us the railways, but in the U.K. in 2024, the U.K. railways are in a dismal state almost 200 years later
You failed to mention that the unions at TPE refusing to do overtime of over 2 years as they wanted a 4 fold increase in overtime pay making it harder for TPE to train staff. The Unions have a large part to play in the failure of the franchises. A colleague of mine use to work for TPE and says the drivers caused these problems and wanted to be nationalised to get ridiculous pay increase from the tax payer
What a load of rubbish, pay increases were more substantial under privatisation. There was no overtime due to the agreement expiring and the DfT not allowing management and staff to come to a fresh agreement. Lack of investment, lack of infrastructure upgrades, rolling stock, negotiations, uplifts in services. The buck always stops with the DfT every time.
Exactly this - at one point guards at TPE were refusing to work overtime or check tickets because they wanted to be paid extra for scanning barcodes on e-tickets….that’s their job! The root cause of most issues in any British industry is too often the unions.
That's nonsense, why would being nationalised by an anti railway government = a large pay rise? Especially when the government are controlling the private operators and still refusing to offer a "ridiculous pay increase"...
@@Bungle-UK Also complete rubbish, I also like how you and the original comment both agree people should be forced into working over their contracted hours. "The route cause is unions" do you need the speech about the only reason you get a weekend off and holidays is because it unions?
Get management still get massive bonuses. The whole network should be taken back into public ownership, with all profits ploughed back infrastructure and trains. That would lessen the amount the tax payer would need to spend. Get rid off the 1,000s of managers doing nothing of importance while claiming top heavy salarys.
Hi all, hope you enjoy the first TOC in this new series! Do check out some of my other videos; I have done a video on Avanti's failings too if you are interested in that! Do consider liking & subscribing too; and even consider joining the channel along with my other amazing members if you want to :)
Also, if your video is stuttering or not running smoothly, drop the quality down to 1080p, as that seemed to help when I watched the video on my less-powerful laptop!
The easiest solution at present which could alleviate TPE's overcrowding issues in the short term is to utilize the fleet of Class 175 units which TFW have withdrawn and are currently in storage! It's a disgrace that we have these units sat around whilst there are many operators suffering from a lack of diesel units and overcrowding!
The government aren't interested. They're trying to cut costs. I agree it's a good solution but it's not going to happen.
Yes it would be a good option but CJ is absolutely correct, sadly. The 175s also have pretty high maintenance costs to stop them from exploding - if it's cheaper, in the governments eyes, it's better
That isn’t an ‘easy solution’ at all…the last thing TPE needs is another sub-fleet with all the staff training that goes with it.
@@Vanmanyo The government is doing a managed decline on the railways again. The 175's are high maintence but these will only be on TPE for the short term.
What's needed in the UK is basically a modern HST. A dual mode power car solution with intermediate trailer vehicles which can be easily reformed as required. Modern Diesel power units can meet the emissions requirements. Sadly we no longer have places like Crewe, Derby, Swindon and Doncaster that could easily design and concept a solution as they did in the past.
I live in Cleethorpes. We’ve had occasions when there have been 3 hour gaps in service on our TP route. The South Transpennine Route now runs to Liverpool Lime street. They started to introduce the Class 68 loco hauled sets and then they were withdrawn, again noise complaints were cited as the reason. As very few people actually live near Cleethorpes Station and servicing point, I find this hard to believe. Scarborough yes but Cleethorpes No. I went to see my sister in Sheffield last Sunday, catching the first Sunday Morning train out. It was composed of 2 x Class 185 units, the rear 3 car set being locked out of use. This rear 3 car set was detached on arrival at Doncaster ( all TPE trains from Cleethorpes were terminating at Doncaster due to the Hope Valley line being closed for engineering work. This Doncaster termination resulted in a wait at Doncaster of over 59 minutes for the next train to Sheffield. My return journey would have been the same. I ended up returning via Lincoln on Northern and EMR services, with a wait at Lincoln of about 40 minutes.still faster than going back via Doncaster.
Great start to the series! Surely the entire InterCity East Coast franchise in general could be a series within itself
BR should never have been privatised. It was run by railwaymen who knew what they were doing but just lacked sufficient funding to be able to run it properly.
The main problem IMHO with TPE is lack of capacity (besides their crew problems). 5 carriage trains just aren't enough for their Scotland-Manchester routes and the core Manchester-Leeds corridor. I broadly like the 802 Nova trains but they really need to be 8 carriages instead. The only 'quiet' TPE trains I've been on have been the Edinburgh-Berwick/Newcastle ones to East Linton etc. I did quite well out of the £1 seat sale so I won't criticise them too much. A lot of their problems have been due to infrastructure problems around Manchester as well and they've partly rectified that by only running the Saltburn service through 13/14 at Piccadilly to The Airport. The Liverpool to Newcastle service that I travelled on between Manchester and Leeds was bang on time but was rammed by Huddersfield. The TPE train that I travelled on between Leeds and York was also 15 minutes late because it made a weird diversion through Wakefield and I almost missed the LNER connection at York.
I used to go back and forth from Durham to Manchester and Liverpool on the Northern TPE back in the late 90's...
I love travelling on trains, but hated having to goto Liverpool as it used to take ages
Very interesting stuff mate, super interesting on how TPE was pretty troubled at this time, you've just earned another sub!
Thanks 😀😀
Being a wheelchair user, the amount of time TPE had to get a taxi from Doncaster to Cleethorpes it was getting ridiculous with all their cancellations
Having travelled a lot over the years from Liverpool on TPE, I think the franchise is neither one thing or another. I agree with what you say about it trying to be a commuter service and intercity. In the morning peak from Liverpool, it's busy until you get to Manchester, then it's pretty much empty until you get to Huddersfield and it's time for sardines. At Leeds it's empty again. Another oddity is how poor the first class service is in comparison to the journey times and I was once refused a second cup of tea from Liverpool and Newcastle in first class. So make that cuppa and the biscuit last!
This is going to be a good series if you research well, which I am sure you will. I gave up including TransPennine in my travel plans a couple of years ago, even if the fare was cheaper than Avanti or LNER. I couldn't help noticing when changing trains at the likes of Carlisle or Preston that there would be a TPE unit stabled somewhere because it had terminated short of destination due to no driver. I was told this problem was exacerbated by TPE changing the rostering of train crews so that they only worked short legs with frequent crew changes en route.
Thank you! When I go to Carlisle there always seems to be a class 397 stabled because it is short of staff etc. I do hope TPE become a bit more reliable now the class 68s have gone, but that means less frequency and less capacity sadly.
On the subject of TPE The Pennine routes especially in The 80's was far worse in terms of infrastructure but here's a rather unusual story about the trains there. The Class 124 sets were built in 1960 at Swindon for Trans Pennine services. Originally of six car sets of which four of the six car were powered and they also included a buffet car but were reduced to five car and then to four car. All Powered cars had the 230hp Leyland Albion engines and towards the late 70's some were merged with ex BR Western Region Class 123's and against the role of play both classes were withdrawn in 1984 in favour of Loco-Hauled Stock hence the unusual story mentioned. Though The North Yorkshire Moors Railway had the idea of preserving one unit due to the panoramic windows but this was not proceeded with due to the prohibitive cost of removing the asbestos on the set.
Hey man! Great video, really interesting. Quick tip though, make sure your editing in a frame rate that matches your b-roll footage of the trains. At the minute the b-roll looks a bit laggy and stuttery as I presume it is shot at a different frame rate to the frame rate of your editing project. I'd recommend editing and shooting in 30fps, but anything will work as long its consistent. :)
Hi! Cheers for the comment! Yeah I think it's cause my camera records in 1080 but I export the video on 4k. Perhaps try watching it on 1080 and see if that's better. I should probably make it 1080p only but can't do that now! See if that works though!
Watching it back I do see your point! I think it's also my editing software and the fact that for this TPE video I actually didn't use much of my content at all, I just used accredited content from other people (hence why it might be a bit juttery, as I have to get that content and process it all etc). My Northern video (newest one) seems a bit better - maybe because it's my own content for the majority! I do try & use my content where possible, but obviously I haven't been able to get footage of every toc ever!
First seem to have also dropped the corporate First prefix from many of their bus fleets too.
Living Cleethorpes I have to us TPE most of the time, I truly hate class 185, always cold in the Winter and hard seats after hour sat in one. Other than the lack of service in 2020s until the start of 2024, they are not doing to bad a job.
Remembering a lot of enginering work along both on the Hope valley line and Leeds to Manchester up grade.
I love this series, Please continue!
Great Video! TPE customers have really been through it in recent times. Would wonder what would’ve happened if the Nova order was exclusively 802s, in a large order to ensure that all 185s were run as 6 cars long. Would’ve made the crew training problems a lot less of a problem. Reliability could’ve been so much better if Platforms 15 and 16 were built at Piccadilly, and I have no clue why the TRU electrification is going at such a snails pace. Manchester to Leeds needs electrification asap.
I also want to note how Andy Burnham was eager to have a go at TPE for P-Coded cancellations, when Northern (under the OLR) were doing the exact same thing during that time.
Whilst researching for Northern video, I noticed Burnham did call Arriva out several times over their tenure! But I don't think on P-code cancellations especially (just cancellations in general). Thank you though!
Great video it does remind me a night in Cleethorpes in December 2022 no tpe trains just emr(local service) i thought at the time how bad tpe was they have improved a bit but i still don't really trust them as a train operator.
Same I wanted to travel on northern more than them but my mum made us go with them because it was £9 there and back
Hello. I really like Transpennine and other train operators in the uk no matter what happens to them.
I still think that Transpennine Express should improve their services because they have struggled a bit despite they have ordered new rolling stocks and are no longer using the Nova 3 Class 68+Mk5s. Which have now gone for storage.
Other issues that TPE have is that the infrastructure is not robust. Let's say Newcastle to Liverpool. If anything goes wrong (staff wise or infrastructure) can not terminate at York as no North bay platforms, can't block a through line, same at Leeds and same at Manchester Victoria. So where do you put a train that needs to terminate short... Answer is nowhere. So, cancel it at origin because it's already accommodated. Trains in the north have got longer but the platform space is still the same.
I would think since there isn't enough 66s about and you can't buy them anymore that 68's could do more container work. One did a driver change in WBQ the other week for the first time, I'm hoping its a regular feature now.
I live in Manchester and I use SailRail to travel home to family in Ireland via Holyhead to Dublin - changing trains from Manchester Piccadilly (platforms 13 & 14) via Chester, Crewe & Lladnuo to Holyhead on TfW & Avanti is a real pain - and I’ve been doing this for 22 years, daytime and overnight, summer & winter - very few direct trains from Manchester to Holyhead to meet ferry check-in and arrivals at Holyhead, with a 4 hour wait at Holyhead on arrival from Ireland to get to Manchester is totally unacceptable - maybe if the Irish government follows EU climate change directives and bans all short-haul flights between Ireland and the U.K. it will force an improvement in the dismal service - another strange thing is with Northern Rail from Manchester Victoria, it does not stop at Parkway (the nearest station to Liverpool Airport) and carries on to Liverpool Lime St - Ferry companies from Liverpool to Dublin only operate from Birkenhead and don’t accept foot passengers on SailRail where they should be operating from Liverpool old port or even the Manchester Ship Canal at Salford Quays (Deansgate Castlefield to Imperial War Museum Metrolink) with smaller foot passenger only vessels, which could also operate further up the Liffey Channel at Dublin as far as the Custom House or O’ Connell Bridge
It seems air travel has absolutely killed any sort of good rail transfers from ferries, hopefully this can change soon! It would certainly make your life easier!
@@Vanmanyo Historical case in point was that dedicated direct express trains used to operate from Manchester Victoria to Liverpool old port for the ferry to Dublin (Dun Laoire, not North Wall), despite the 8 hour ferry crossing time, as opposed to 3 hours from Holyhead to Dublin - and frankly, I find the journey from Manchester to Holyhead really tiring - at Dun Laoire, they have easy DART connections into Dublin Pearse, Tara St & Connolly, where the LUAS Trams operate to Dublin Hueston - at Dublin Port North Wall, the LUAS does not even serve the Irish Ferries/Stena passenger terminals, where Dublin Port (North Wall) has been expanded to take cruise ships, the railways only catering to freight trains around Dublin Port despite the passenger/commuter use of Liffey Junction and the Phoenix Park Tunnel - Dublin Port is also served by the M50 and the Port Tunnel motorways, catering to trucks
love your videos keep going with the series we all love it
Thank you!!
Another issue with TPE issue was the Liverpool - Leeds - Edinburgh service.
TPE were already to go live and chip away at the Leeds - Edinburgh market and undercut the XC service in price.
However just before going live, LNER, government run challenged DFT about the running. DFT sided with LNER so TPE had to run the service as two separate services, but by the time the DFT ruled, the only paths from Newcastle to Edinburgh were behind the freight paths. This destroyed the business case for TPE and had to adapt quickly.
TPE should have ordered more 802s. With GWR they should have ordered more 9 car sets and not the poor 5 car sets which the DFT forced.
Issue is 5 car sets were needed to negate short platforms across the network! More 5 cars could've been ordered to double up more services as 10 car though
A most interesting video! Well done.
Thanls! I appreciate it :D
I live near many of northern and tpe stations.
nova3 aka the 68 and stock lasted to december2023 were the 68s got returned to DRS stock shoved into storage i think
Yep they've gone into storage. There's some near Crewe
Is it fair to leave it as most hated? Things have changed somewhat since the time you made that declaration, it wasn’t good but there were others in similar or worse depending on which one you need to travel with. Also, following the media reports for P coding and the withdrawal of 68/Mk5 makes you just as wrong as they were. I’m not sure conjecture and sniping is a good theme for a series unless you never want to work in the industry.
Hey I appreciate your concern and will change the title shortly as they have improved since making the video - you are correct there (although still not perfect of course). Thank you!
08:50 - It was Robin Davis, not Robert
Do apologise 🙏
The 185's are totally inadequate, unless doubled up which they rarely were although thankfully generally are now, for the core TPE area.A 185 is effectively 2 and a half carriage train.Whoever designed these 185's along with TPE must have known what would happen as they only had to look at what happened on Virgin XC when plutocrat Sir Richard Branson and railway expert replaced longer trains with Voyagers.
The 185s would have been excellent if they'd had five cars and corridor connections at each end. I travelled between Newcastle and York several times a month for work, and soon learned to avoid Cross-Country's Voyagers because they were uncomfortable and pre-covid were almost always dirty, and tried to make sure I never returned from York on a 185 because they would arrive full and standing or so full it was impossible to get on. How I miss the 91+Mk4 sets, the last trains designed by people who understood trains...
Northern Spririt Transpennine had the best livery of all franchises at the time.
I love 185 and 175.
SWR is a failed franchise. Ruined everything SWT worked so hard for over 21 years in under 4.
Totally agree. Stagecoach weren't perfect, but they did a pretty good job of operating one of the busiest routes in the UK through and into the busiest stations in the country. Made me laugh when people on social media were happy that Stagecoach lost the franchise. I thought then, be careful what you wish for. Got to say First didn't disappoint, they turned it into a shambles. Now, the weekday Waterloo to Guildford and Dorking via Epsom services under First are what Stagecoach offered on a Sunday. Epsom at peak times had six trains per hour from Waterloo, now it's just two.
First group rail always let it down when I see company's from First group
I work for Transpennine Express
Cool stuff! Hope you liked the video :D
THEY NEED 10 COACHES ON NEWCASTLE TO LIVERPOOL SERVICE I WENT FROM YORK TO LIVERPOOL AND IT WAS SO CROWED
Thanks for the super chat! Sadly I think the max Northern can have is 6 carriages
@@Vanmanyo transpennine express
@@Deepleswanseavalleybusspotter Sorry I didn't realise you replied on the TPE video! Even so, max TPE can run is also 6!
Can there be Failed Franchaises for London Midland and Govia SE as well? Would love to know more of those
Iirc LM just died naturally - after about 6 extensions that added up to a year or 3 of extra running 😂
Could you class LM as failed?
Govia SE was quite a simple issue. The franchise was up anyway and DfT said that SE had not fully given back all money owed - something to do with HS1 fees and running less trains on HS1 during COVID. Since the DfT have taken over all that is happened is a new worse timetable got introduced.
I miss the TPEs to Windermere, so much more comfortable than the Northern.
The 195s/331s aren't great trains no!
Hello ,
Over crowding or big issue for sure I think 5 coaches is not enough for them
I think more 9 coaches would be more suitable.
I think you should look into Scotrail threre owed by Scottish Government since April 2022 .
And I think you should do LNER Government owed cause they got took over from failed Virgin Trains East Coast franchise somthing about coast of running the line.
Great video on Transpennie Express.
Thank you! There's so many operators I could make videos on (which highlights how bad privatisation has been!). I think due to platform lengths etc TPE are limited to 6 car trains, but many are 3 cars. Thank you again
@@Vanmanyo I know they run three cars on the diesel Siemens trains but 5 on CAF’S and Hitachi sets. I know LNER are getting new CAF’S in 2026 I think but there going to 3 modes , diesel, battery or electric Run depends on what route permits what mode , I wouid think running on batteries will be slower than diesel . I know most trains on diesel limted to 80- 100 mph exceptions of the Voyager sets than can run 125MPH that’s due to be replaced by 800 sets of Hitachi with Avanti West Coast.
9 coaches would never pay their way - the demand isn’t there outside of the core Manchester - Leeds section.
@@Bungle-UKhave to agree with you there. Also along with the fact that stations such as Huddersfield can’t really extend their platforms much more than they already are at the moment. However the TRU plays out might change that, but doesn’t change the fact that even a 6 car 185 set has to squeeze in like the passengers onboard said train 💀
@@nowapproachingyt Indeed - the original plan was for 6 trains per hour Leeds - Manchester which would provide enough capacity with 5/6 car trains.
GNER
London Midland
Silverlink
National Express East Coast
ONE (Great Eastern)
Connex South Central
Northern.
Is Virgin Rail still a thing? I'm sure that'd be an interesting story to tell.
Virgin Trains aren't no! I think it would be interesting to go through the history of the three franchises Virgin ran (Cross Country, West Coast & East Coast!)
@@Vanmanyo Just saw the video series you did on their tilting trains, only after I watched this. My bad. xD
Haha don't worry! Thanks for checking them out😆
The usual people think nationalisation is some magic solution, but things have to got worse on the Hull line in the past year. We now regularly only have 3-car trains (we’ve never seen any of the new TPE rolling stock) and most Hull-Manchester services are up to 25 mins slower than they were 30 years ago.
The main issues with TPE in recent years was the over complicated fleet caused by ordering too many small numbers of different units, and the scumbag unions encouraging staff to engage in pointless industrial action over petty issues like scanning e-tickets.
More nonsense from you.
@@class313nonsense that’s actually correct in some cases
Nationalisation might work if we had competent politicians. Don't hold your breath. Private operations might work if we had competent managers and investors. Don't hold your breath. Forty years ago I worked in Italy. The railways were underfunded, strike-prone, but very cheap and almost every station had a bar ... but the arrivals board at Torino PN often showed trains from the south 12 or more hours late. Some trains, even long distance ones, included the infamous pre-war Centoporte slam door stock with wooden seats. Italian friends visiting the UK were very impressed by the HST. Cut to today. We have a short high speed line from the Channel to St Pancras, built to French LGV specifications. HS2 is an unfinished disaster which has cost far more per mile than any other high speed line anywhere in the world. Meanwhile, back in Italy, there are two high speed train operating companies running on new infrastructure that connects all the major cities. This despite the fact that Italy has lots of mountains, frequent earthquakes, and a couple of volcanoes. England does not, so what's our excuse?
@@class313 feel free to tell us what you think is nonsense?
I’m really interested in failed franchises
Have you considered doing any that come out of London 🤔
A few people have suggested perhaps Southeastern, Southern, Virgin EC etc, any suggestions though?
@@Vanmanyo*Wrexham and Shropshire* 😂
@nowapproachingyt Wrexham and Shropshire weren't a franchise though. They were an OAO which was squashed by Virgin WC forcing them onto a less than ideal routing and then creating a more direct alternative to finish them off.
@@quintuscrinis I know it was a joke
@@Vanmanyo Do the ECML - apart from TransPennine we've had GNER, National Express, and Virgin with TWO OLRs - East Coast and LNER in between.
can you please do GTR SE next?
Crosscountry? They aren't quite as bad as they were a few years ago but they are still not great.
Definitely south eastern
I didn’t know southern were failed?
In the 2010s southern were regarded as the worst operator, they were a laughing stock. Now they are reaosonably respected. www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/southern-rail-uk-worst-train-service-2017-third-year-row-which-thameslink-great-northern-a8162516.html
@@Vanmanyo’strapped to a railway line. Thank god it’s southern I got 6 hours to escape.’ - a comedian back in the 2010s
12:10 Um, I'm pretty sure you're supposed to be at the FRONT when you're driving the train.
Magic!
OLR has made a huge improvement to TPE, sure there is still a big overcrowding issue but the current service is a huge improvement on early 2023 when I would just assume any TPE service up the ECML would be cancelled.
Arriva Trains Wales
Great vid! How about connex south eastern/central
Would be interesting to do! But as many early TOCs, there isn't loads on them. Regardless I'll certainly give it a look! Thanks!
@@Vanmanyo grew up in South London so Connex was close to my heart. I actually remember the day at Waterloo East when I was handed a leaflet saying that CSE was being repossessed by the government. I’m sure I have that leaflet somewhere lol
@@iambigbrother2 Haha that's so cool! Wish I was old enough for that stuff :(
@@Vanmanyo would love to see if you could compile a history vid. Your vids I’ve seen are awesome
@@iambigbrother2 Thanks so much! I'll see what I can come up with!
RIP Nova 3 😥
Bring back 125s
YES!
@@ihatemillcastleracecoursesadly we will never see the InterCity125 sets again
In a world of arcane 'parliamentary services' it is particularly galling that a company like TPE failed through having too many passengers! The reach of de-nationalisation is as long as it is insidious.
Great video on a very sad and 25-year long political-economic grift. Transport has never been easy to profit from, but the franchise model is financialisation on steroids.
When we (gov’t by law) split ownership (very rentable) from the company running trains they lease, on infrastructure they also rent - the money spent by passengers go right through to the owners of all the stuff. Not the “users” with tickets or staff.
As everyone looking at property or financial assets knows - that’s the part of “the economy” that actually works. Franchise in debt, expenditures converted to capital in a different company - not into transport itself…
Before Thatcher (and Nixon) this scheme was illegal. Today it has been fully legal for decades. And we don’t see the connections to us (people) losing grip…? 😅
The whole system just seems a bit corrupt and illogical. I hope Labour's nationalisation plan (assuming they win) can change rail for good
Thank you though!
@@Vanmanyo Oh, by all means…! 😀
That’s the thing, the illogical part. We’ve been *convinced* that every ‘private initiative’ is efficient, rational, productive and so on. The real logical breach is that the very same issues are experienced all over Europe, and indeed here in rich (?) Norway - No EU or Brexit to blame. And very different PMs or presidents - coincidence or causation…?
Economists Stephanie Kelton or Mark Blyth have good explanations, plenty here on YT. Best of luck with the series…! 👍 (edit: and a sub, forgot that…)
@@musiqtee it's a highly interesting debate and you put up some very good points! I'll have to watch this economists at some point too! I appreciate the subscription and thanks again :D
Being short of rolling-stock is a rubbish excuse but it's been this way for years. TPE like many other operators could have refurbished HST stock as a temporary measure - lets face it from 2018 onwards availability of mk3 stock and power cars would have proven an excellent stand in. The noisy 68 issue was simply not addressed at all. At least people ordering the 197 etc fleets have the ability to put units together to solve overcrowding. TPE could never figure out if it was an all stops service or an express major stops only service. Honestly the crosscountry routes in the north are awful when it comes to speed and fiddling about with layouts to get an extra 10mph does little.
Northern?
👀
@@Vanmanyo*don’t worry darling, I’ll be covering this one for you 😥* 😆
@@nowapproachingyt sadly I've just been up North all of yesterday to collect footage 😭
@@Vanmanyo fuck, I guess you do the serious version 💀
I am glad they have gone they treated Hull passengers like dirt axing the Manchester Airport direct service when they took over, axing the catering trolley which had previously been offered when Arrival ran the franchise, making the service slower by adding additional stops. Passenger never asked for all this. Good riddance!
I mean that’s how Hull passengers see it, but think about the people that use the newly added stops, like me. I’d say you win some you lose some in these terms (:
@@nowapproachingyt why cannot they add the stops on other service like Middlesbrough why always Hull?
@@markwillis2800 because the saltburn service is the Manchester airport service, and I believe that wouldn’t go down well for people trying to get from not just Middlesborough to Man Air, but also Leeds and maybe even Dewsbury (naturally us yorkshires want to escape reality and go to the tax haven that Tenerife isn’t)
TPE are absolutely the worst operator I have ever travelled with… I’ve had issues nearly every time with them and up until recently they were the only choice to travel from Hull to Leeds directly which is a trip I make regularly however Northern thankfully operate the same route now albeit on a slower stopping service, regardless of that I actively avoid TPE now as although Northern aren’t perfect they’re a million times better than the aforementioned excuse of a TOC
High speed 2s fault
Well HS2 would have relieved much of TPE's overcrowding issues if it actually went to Manchester and Leeds ...
It’s a repeat of the Beeching cuts of the 1960’s - if we are to have a viable alternative to flying and air travel in these days of climate change and 15 mins smart cities, where mainland Europe’s railways are far better than the U.K., where the money wasted on HS2 could have been used to either maintain the existing railways, link HS1 to HS2 or develop a high speed rail link (undersea tunnel) between Holyhead - Dublin or have a high speed link between the ECML and the WCML - Network Rail is no longer fit for purpose and needs to get scrapped due to its financial mismanagement and wastage of public funds - rail fares constantly go up but the standards of service consistently go down compared to the rest of Europe, where even the trains in the former Soviet Bloc countries of Eastern Europe are way better than the U.K. - it’s a sad state of affairs from when the Victorians in the U.K. gave us the railways, but in the U.K. in 2024, the U.K. railways are in a dismal state almost 200 years later
fourth
91st 😎
You failed to mention that the unions at TPE refusing to do overtime of over 2 years as they wanted a 4 fold increase in overtime pay making it harder for TPE to train staff. The Unions have a large part to play in the failure of the franchises. A colleague of mine use to work for TPE and says the drivers caused these problems and wanted to be nationalised to get ridiculous pay increase from the tax payer
What a load of rubbish, pay increases were more substantial under privatisation. There was no overtime due to the agreement expiring and the DfT not allowing management and staff to come to a fresh agreement. Lack of investment, lack of infrastructure upgrades, rolling stock, negotiations, uplifts in services. The buck always stops with the DfT every time.
Exactly this - at one point guards at TPE were refusing to work overtime or check tickets because they wanted to be paid extra for scanning barcodes on e-tickets….that’s their job! The root cause of most issues in any British industry is too often the unions.
@@Bungle-UK Utter nonsense.
That's nonsense, why would being nationalised by an anti railway government = a large pay rise? Especially when the government are controlling the private operators and still refusing to offer a "ridiculous pay increase"...
@@Bungle-UK Also complete rubbish, I also like how you and the original comment both agree people should be forced into working over their contracted hours. "The route cause is unions" do you need the speech about the only reason you get a weekend off and holidays is because it unions?
Could you just talk a bit slower please!
I can't in that video - it's been uploaded sadly! 😅
However, do check out my more recent stuff which hopefully I speak slower in!
New member!
Thank you so much! Hope you enjoyed the video 😆
If you have discord do join the server to gain your role and access to special channels !!
Get management still get massive bonuses. The whole network should be taken back into public ownership, with all profits ploughed back
infrastructure and trains. That would lessen the amount the tax payer would need to spend. Get rid off the 1,000s of managers doing nothing of importance while claiming top heavy salarys.