very much looking forward to the same experience with the Romanian Railways' new Alstom EMUs, which everyone (especially the mass media) seem to love cranking one out to solely because they're our first new purchase since 2004... but with Alstom winning every public procurement bid that we've launched since last year or so (not to mention throwing a hissy fit when they lost one in favour of PESA of Poland), we sure have a bright future coming up...
Maybe they should have bought them straight from Alstom. Just Australia should have bought the Collins class subs directly from Sweden. Now look nat the mess we're in.
True but I still feel that it's up to the contractor, Alstom, to ensure that the quality is there regardless of where they are built/assembled and the same goes for Seimens who have a similar record when introducing German tech to other countries. Stuff-ups like being too wide for tunnels is unforgivable, no excuse from the operators nor the manufacturer is acceptable.@@thhseeking
@@anthonyxuereb792 this. its not like in the old days when there were more railway manufacturers in every country, nowdays they've been brought out by others (for instance Siemens' electric locos are made by the former Krauss-Maffei works in Munich, Stadler's multiple units are made in a myriad of locations such as Szolnok [HU], Siedlce [PL] or Fanipol [BY] and Hitachi Rail purchased the living disaster known as AnsaldoBreda nearly 10 years ago). they are practically owned by these said companies. it literally does not matter where they are made so long as there are rigurous inspections to see if the vehicles meet the standards of the company or not. cause vehicles could be made at someone's traditional "home factory" and still come out with defects, like we've seen recently in the case of the Boeing 737 MAX whose plugged emergency escape door blew out due to some loose bolts.
I guess it makes sense that Amtrak's successor units to the original Acela sets are currently running 3 years behind when they were initially anticipated to enter service due to issues during production and testing: they're being built by Alstom!
Good. I'd rather sit in the dirty rust bucket that is the average 150 than on a train that doesn't move at all. Also the 158 super sprinters low key have good seats right now.
Correct as a matter of fact the sprinters can form a longer train that's coupling Class 150 153 & 158 to each other. Although in Scotland you would see this combination quite common along the fourth Bridge 158 with Bombardier 170 DMU
Interesting parallels with the 1955 BR modernisation plan where, as part of the steam replacement programme, myriad diesel types were procured with resulting reliability, maintainability and operability problems. I wonder if we are doomed to continue not learning the lessons of history.
Metro Cammell used to be one of the best manufacturers for quality. There are London Underground trains built by Metro Cammell that are 50 years old and still running reliably. Also remember the Class 101 DMU, probably the most rattle-free of the 1950s DMUs.
What I like is that the BR Standard Locomotives, mixed results non-withstanding, were built with clear goals and efficiency (maintenance and parts-sharing) as much as possible... While BR said to the first generation of diesels: "DO WHATEVER YOU WANT!" I guess it was because Diesel technology was a bit new to BR at the time so it was trial-and-error, but the execution of the whole thing... oof....
@@toby070True but down to Riddles the first BR CME who disagreed with dieselisation on economic, security and probably philosophical grounds so he created the Standard Class steam locos. I suspect the diesel debacle was mostly caused by lack of overall objectives and inept procurement. Many of the companies they asked to build the Type 1 diesels were good at steam but utterly inexperienced in diesel, eg North British.
The site "derbysulzers" mentioned that Vickers had welding issues with the Sulzer diesels, leading to cracking as the 12LDAs were uprated to eventually some 2,700 hp. Later, with the 12LVA25s, there were crankshaft issues which were later found to be from fitters incorrectly reassembling the bearings. Washwood Heath seemed to be carrying on that tradition.
@@cedriclynch They built the Metrobuses that at least in Birmingham and the Surrounding area never missed a day of service apart from if one was involved in a Crash or been vandalised, MOT and stuff but in terms of the actual bus reliability they never owed TWM later NXWM any money and were withdrawn after 30 years. Most newer lower floor buses are not going to last that long. They were still using Metrobuses as Driver Trainers but due to Birmingham having an emissions zone I don't think they have these anymore. But the Metrobuses did everything from Local Commuter Routes to Express City Services to Long Distance City to City Commuter services
I love the bbc2 night time education programme/VHS sound you have going on in your videos, it's pleasant to listen to. Too many make videos with very sensitive microphone settings, it's almost too clear or overly bassy.
Just came across your channel doing research for my model railway layout. I have to say what a brilliant, well presented and extremely informative channel it is. Needless to say, I've subbed. Excellent work, atb Graham 🙂👍
The back catalogue is a fantastic tribute to British engineers and management 😂 I usually watch these wearing my monocle and Union Jack underpants whilst sipping a cup of tea and uttering words like "what ho" and "by jove" 😊
Someome told me 175s used to have some cleaning and maintenance done in Cardiff Canton as well as at Chester. But when CAF took over their maintenance, Canton was stopped from maintaining them. A couple of months later they started having "thermal incidents".
Didn't know about Cardiff being involved, but a similar thought crossed my mind. The 175s were not barbecuing themselves until maintenance transferred to CAF. Either the knowledge was lost, or the management as usual thought they knew better and changed the maintenance cycle or regime. There must be loads of classes on the railways that have odd niggles and faults, and it's through time and experience that maintenance staff get to know the odd little habits of certain classes and how to keep them running. Like removing accumulated leaf and litter debris in the engine compartment. Not so much the fault of the unit, more down to CAF's maintenance.
You're correct. Canton was warning TfW about what would happen, and they were right. The expertise at Chester was also lost during the handover to CAF and the new management stopped the cleaning.
Lovely little town. had the pleasure to work there a few times last decade. I hadn't been warned about the pronunciation in advance and got some very bemused looks when I needed to ask for directions...
A year ago I was chatting to a hiker at Queen Street station waiting for the train to Milngavie so he could start the West Highland Way. He moaned at me about Milngavie not being pronounced the way it was spelt. Then he said he was from El-tam in London. I said "Shouldn't that be El-tham?" Touché!!
My funniest experience, was the day that I arrived at my local station just outside London to find that it had been unmanned. I pressed the button on the box on the wall to help with an unusual route and connection times. When the girl I was speaking to asked me to spell the names of some of the stations, I casually asked whether she was local. It was hard not to burst out laughing when she replied, "I am working in the southwest trains central call centre", Then added "We are in the Philippines". Talking to a metal box at a deserted station in the drizzling rain, it seemed surreal. I doubt that the poor girl, who sounded about 16, had ever even heard of Scotland. I was so tempted the following day, to pop into the station and ask her for the quickest route to Moscow. LOL
Your work continues to be a great listen-to. It baffles me how it seems like British railroading can't go five feet without something going wrong anymore.
Older trains were built with constant overhaul and maintenance in mind. This is expensive and when not done correctly - fails. Plus we in the UK run trains well beyond their 10-20 year design life; unreliable. Then we have newer private companies who want to hire new trains, which are not mega expensive, that will run the life of their contracts without major overhaul, and then it doesn’t matter. So basically modern trains are built to run for a decade and be scrapped. Shorter life, but less maintenance doing it. It has translated to more Diesel and electric multiple units, with an engine under each vehicle, difficult to get at, and dirty place to be fitted. Anyone not see a few conceptual problems here? The Railway is a dirty, wet, punishing environment for equipment.
The 460s were very well looked after at Stewarts Lane and worked ok because of it. Sadly, Alstom's after sales was appallingly bad and the GatEx team often had to work without any help from them. By comparison, Adtranz worked with LTS at East Ham to sort the faults on the 357s, which were initially appalling but went on to become very reliable. When SWT went for it's big Mk1 fleet replacement programme, Alstom's reliability record effectively put them out of the running, whilst Siemens put a huge amount of emphasis into product support in order to win the business. Interestingly, the reason that Eastleigh Works shut in 2006 was because it was owned by Alstom, having been purchased in anticipation of winning the SWT fleet order. When Siemens won it, they weren't likely to use their competitor's site so built a depot at Northam, the predecessor of Eastleigh depot before 1909. In the event Siemens needed a bigger site, but because Alstom had leased Eastleigh Works to KRS, they could now make use of it. In 2024 Siemens still have a major presence at Eastleigh Works but Alstom are long gone
This brings back memories. It was a dark time for the UK's railways, what with other things such as a few serious rail disasters and general discontent from the public with the service the new franchises were providing. Alstom's new train offerings were definitely the most unreliable, though I do recall the Adtranz Electrostar Class 357 also getting some stick for issues and delayed entry to service. In comparison, Adtranz Turbostars seemed to enter service a lot more smoothly, even if they weren't without some issues. I remember the SWT order going with Siemens, and all the coverage of SWT having given up on unreliable British made trains and having to turn to the Germans to help. I also recall media coverage about how Siemens had to "ruin" their test track a little with worse condition track and an erratic third rail power supply to better replicate the crappy tracks the Desiros would have to go over. The Desiros were certainly a good choice for SWT. The funny thing is, having had a bad experience with British built Alstom trains, then a good experience with German built Siemens trains, the south western franchise went back to the British for the Class 701s, and what an absolute joke those have turned out to be to date. I've only actually gone on a Class 334 out of the whole Coradia family. It was quite pleasant, though they had the heating on warming the legs at the same time as the air conditioning blowing cold from up top at the same time as all the windows being open and giving a draught!
I rode on a few class 458 and 180 trains in the mid 2000s. My impression of them was that they were comfortable, but EXTREMELY lightly built. The Siemens Desiros felt a lot more solid.
The class 458s are actually pretty heavy. But yes they are indeed lighter than 450s. Desiros are over 170 tons vs a class 458 at sround 164 tons . The problem with that is they are much to heavy to supply a good amount of power for them to accelerate fast enough (im talking about 450s) . The power supply at SWT third rail lines weren't adequate for the time they were released onto the tracks. Subsequently 450s are slow as hell as SWT had to heavily order them with inbuilt software/ hardware limitations . It's a shame Really. Class 458s I have no idea how quick they actually are at acceleration at 4 cars (but we will find out soo ) I will say though, Electrostars were much more reliable as units than 458s, faster than a desiro anyday. And yet Still are sometimes 10 tons lighter than a 450 (near 174 tons) class 377/4s are likely the relitively lightest 377 subset at 4 cars (161 tons) vs the heavier variants ( class 377/2 at 168 tons)both 4 cars
There was a time when The Class 458 Junipers were Confined or Banished to The Waterloo-Reading route via Staines and Ascot after SWT allegedly failed to persuade Porterbrook Leasing to take them back. That said the 458's now work beyond said route after their major overhauls were carried out.
@@PinkThorn242The original plan was to eventually replace all the CEP/VEP/BEP/CIGs on every route they ran on with 458s, and to complement the existing 442s. Reading-Waterloo so happened to be the first route to see the 458s in action. When problems came to light, SWT just simply took their business to Siemens, and it was the beginning of the death of Washwood Heath.
Well, the 458's are planned to start running on the waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour route and are currently working on the sets by converting them from the 458/5 to the 458/4. The main thing from this is the removal of the 5th car to return back to a 4 car set and allowing them to reach a higher speed
I think the Reading line unit diagrams are pretty much self-contained, anything diagrammed on that route won't go anywhere else that day apart from the depot at night so it was a wise move then to keep the 458s on the Readings where they could cause the least harm if they sat down. And there they stayed.
If you see what the British railway companies, all of them and to many of them, have buggered up in the past, then it really does not come as a surprise that the also have no idea how and what to purchase when they need trains. This just fits perfectly in the disfunctional idiocy that is the British railway.
As someone who was in work in Wilmslow both days the 175s set on fire at the train station, I cannot understate just how weird that was to hear about. Like on two separate days that week someone had left to get the train home, come back and gone ‘nope apparently a train’s on fire’
One thing I never understood was how Metro Cammell’s factory turned from one of the most well-loved into one with dubious to no quality control. Both our metro and suburban stock in Hong Kong built by Washwood Heath lasted over 40 years.
I remember 13 years ago riding them every day from brighton to gatwick airport for work, I purchased an anytime return ticket whiich for some reason on the outbound portion being valid for 5 days therefore was able to use the same ticket evey day all week, at a total cost of £14per week, which didnt feel as bad as pay for a £60 weekly season ticket. The return portion was also valid for 31 days, so that was never an issue either.
Another great video, thanks. Didn't know about the clearance issues at Conwy so will keep an eye out next time I go that way. I have many memories of travelling on 175s from Bangor, passable at best but mostly awful when for example a 2-car unit would be diagrammed to meet one of the ferries at Holyhead. Even when 3-car units were on, they were cramped, no space for luggage, seats too close together adding to the general cramped feel. The automated announcements were terrible, mangling the Welsh place names, rarely running to time so would announce the wrong stations. Things were so bad that the guard took over doing all the announcements. Only plus side is they did look good, especially in the Arriva horns. Luckily I was never on a unit that failed or burst into flames whilst in service, but I'm not sorry to see them go!
Not only did I learn a lot about the Alstom Coradia trains, I now also know how to pronounce 'Llandudno', where I will be vacationing this summer. Thanks!
It's a shame these units were kind of rubbish, I'd still really like a model of the 460, something about that face is just, endearingly derpy! Another great video as always!
I can't with the 460s 😂😂 their so ugly. It would have been better if they looked similar to the first set of electrostars or something . Because Jesus christ that's the ugliest train I've seen. But personalty opinion I guess
On a Class 180 from York to London Kings Cross in the summer. Slow running the whole way through-at one point, a staff member was stuffing tissue into a hole in the wall to stop a water leak. Slow moving gave me plenty of time to admire the outskirts of Stevenage at least...
Excellent work. Some nostalgia for me as you showed a picture of 458s at Reading with the old Metalbox building in the background. I worked in that building for 5 years for Energis in the early 2000s. My desk faced out onto Reading station. FYI the town of Milngavie is pronounced. Mull-guy. Yeah, I don't know how either.
@@mdhazeldine Not really, it was quite annoying as the windows had a funny blind system where you couldn't raise the blinds out of the way, plus it was at a time when there were no decent digital cameras.
I particualrly love the fact they were sold on 'proven technology' when they were very much prototyping them at the great expense of the commuter. An absolute farce.
I drove 180s throughout their career with EMR. They were glitches, but nice to drive. As long as you had all engines running they would wipe the floor with a 222 performance wise. 109 and 113 were especially rapid. Shame we didn't keep them longer as our fitters were starting to get on top of the issues.
Get them displacing Class 150 Sprinters on Northern until they sort out their own DMU Tender. They still have the original prototypes running regular service and are clearly well past their best.
IMHO it is a bit unfair to blame the Met-Camm plant for the issues. The issues the 180 and the similar Coradia Juniper classes was due to cost cutting instigated from Alstom's HQ in France. The Met-Camm plant was able to produce the 1995/56 tube stock, Class 390 and the X3 for Sweden without the same issues.
Every railway has its version of fundamentally flawed rolling stock. But many got stuck with these duds. Fortunately there were never any deaths or injuries, just a lot of very angry and frustrated passengers and personnel. (No doubt some enthusiasts who rode them knew what they were in for.) At least they had many attractive paint schemes.
Say what you like but the Class 175 have the best noise insulation of all the 3td gen DMUs. It was possible to sleep very well on them on the late night/early morning trips to and from Holyhead. I miss them on TFL services.
It's a real shame they couldn't get the 'Adelante' to be more reliable. I only travelled on one once, from Reading down to Pewsey, and it was fast, comfortable and easily the best ride quality of any train I'd been on previously.
I take a 458 every so often and they're comfy trains. That's about as much as I care to compliment them for half of the time. Squeaky, rattly, woeful and at times it just randomly makes loud noises for no apparent reason. Plus I don't think these trains were much of a looker (the 460 just looks daft, the 175 looks like a multi-storey, the 458 was an eyesore then and it's not a looker now). Mind you my opinions change here and there as I mainly compare it to the Class 455... no. +1 for this video, comprehensive and well-done
Virgin Trains hired two Class 180's after the loss of Pendolino 390033 "City of Glasgow" but never used them as they decided to use Pretendolino WB64 instead
The 180 “ Adelante” or Coradia S as they were known as initially were being built for First North Western to operate Holyhead- London Euston Services however the SRA ( Strategic Rail Authority) refused First North Western permission so 14 5 car units were being built but had no home / use So First Great Western took them on . I worked them for FGW alongside the HST’s on the onboard catering section, The biggest annoyance for me & the relevant affected customers and not a snob was first class Coach D was between 2 Std class coaches C&E , First class would of been better as coach E so less walk through and delays to the first class at seat service . Personally i don’t think they were that bad for reliability considering the work duties/ time working they were doing .
The Alstom-GEC merger was a disaster for British industry, Alstom ran-down and failed to invest in almost every former GEC facility and now most have closed. GEC Preston used to make high quality traction motors and electric gear - gradually starved of orders, now closed. Washwood Heath was admitedly in need of investment, which it should have got given the number of orders going through it in the 90's, but as the video shows, this didn't happen and the results are clear. Now closed of course. The ex Metropolitcan Vickers works in Manchester is a similar story. Thankfully some of the heavier electrical engineering side of things was saved by GE USA and continues in Stafford and Rugby. Let's just say I'm not optimistic about Alstom running the former Bombardier plant in Derby well...
175s ended up being reliable and are really nice units to ride on I’m very saddened they’ve now left TfW had lots of good memories riding on them and I’ve always had a big soft spot for them, I’m not keen on the 197s
I recall reading that the cost of refreshing the 458's to meet the disability discrimination legislation was only cost effective when someone came up with the idea of putting magnifying glass over the front destination display which would otherwise have had smaller font than required under the legistlation. it did seem a bit odd to me considering there were many passenger trains at the time which didn't even feature destination screens.
The 460s were definitely the most futuristic looking of the Coradia family. Unfortunately I never had the chance to travel on one. I have had many, many trips on the 334s on the Ayrshire coast and on the north Clyde line, to where they were cascaded after the introduction of the Siemens Class 380s on the Ayrshire routes.
@@runoflife87 As I said, Siemens and Stadler trains have also had issues, if not catastrophic ones like the Coradias or the Avelia Liberty units for example. The Greater Anglia units from Stadler had issues when they were first introduced, and Amtrak's Charger locomotives have had quite a few issues as well, including suffocating from light snowfall
I just remembered that one of those Class 175's which was taken out of service due to fire damage sat in Chester Railway Station for years...I think that's the one caught fire in Prestatyn. And I was stuck on a 175 for nearly 2 hours where it limped to Llandudno Junction but other than that one time, the 175s haven't been too bad in my experience. Same with the 180s, rode a couple when Northern Rail had them running to Blackpool, was a little overkill though as I had a carriage to myself at one point. Nevertheless, those Coradia's are notorious for breaking down constantly.
I remember one time a few years ago when a class 334 went past with a big wheel flat, it sounded like a metal getting pounded by a jackhammer and as loud as one too, and that wasn’t even at full speed too, would hate to think how it sounded at full speed
Just to update on the 458s. SWR are converting them back to 4 car sets. The origial plan was to take up the failed 442 diagrams over the Guildford Direct route. But the latest rumour seems to be that they will be used on the Brockenhurst- Lymington line and local stopping trains (Bournemouth-Winchester), freeing up 450's for a possible new Portmouth-Weymouth service.
@@ewsclass66yep, research "class 458/4" on you tube and you will see footage of them with their lateral dampers back on the bogies. Meaning they can go back to higher speeds. Lower weight (40 tons taken off via the 5th carriage) means re gearing them to max speed will heavily reduce the likely hood of the motor overloading drastically.
The rail companies all bought/rented the cheapest sets for profits, but ended up paying more for reliability pushing up rail fares for their incompetence. I remember the Spanish C.A.F. units Northern Rail bought and the staff maintaining them said C.A.F. stood for Cheap As F**K.
Loool, well at least CAF can take the criticism now and hopefully modify any future models (that would be the smart thing to do). They have already rectified alot of their units to have better reliability it would seem. The class 195s and 331s have been modified with better lateral dampers for better shock absorption. They look like the strangest set of dampers I've seen ,but as long as they work then that's what matters I guess. For future it's looking harsh for the production of new aventras because alstom/(derby) are having problems keeping the plant open. And even on time with their orders , And seimens apparently don't really have shop set up for new desiro cities at the moment. So it's looking like CAF and stadler are likely best candidates for any near future purchases for traction. Northern rail/lner/southeastern/ and southern are likely gonna order some units at some point in the next (now) to 10 years Let's hope CAF improve their newer fleet for the new LNER fleet and any other potential TOCs etc.
Yes indeed CAF built the Midland Metro's Urbos 2 Trams and Urbos 3's although The Urbos 3's had long entered service or hadn't fully they were taken out of service for cracks in the chassis meaning the entire line between Wolverhampton and Birmingham you had to get a Train or two buses in the 79 from Wolverhampton to West Bromwich following the Tram to Moxley/Bilston Border then continuing through Darlaston where a lot of people got on To Wolverhampton me included as we didn't get the Tram or Train. Then they followed the Tram from Wednesbury to West Bromwich where you had to get the 74 which followed the Tram from West Bromwich to Birmingham the 74 is every 5 minutes 10 minutes to Dudley and West Bromwich combined so wouldn't have been to overcrowded but if the M5 J1 was screwed the 74 would be Screwed. The 79 was every 10 to 12 minutes so got absolutely rammed and ran in convoys at peak times due to them constantly stopping outside the Tram Stops. Then Engineering work took place then The Trams failed again for the same issue and they had actually found Cracks a few years Prior on the Urbos 2 before fixing the affected Trams. NX who ran the Midland Metro due to running the buses didn't order them it was TFWM or Centro at the time who ordered them and NX Ran them they never had these issues until TFWM took over the Metro of NX
I love travelling on 180s, one of the comfiest trains on the network. Think their reliability issues comes from the fact they’re diesel hydraulic rather than electric, wonder why they went with that.
A pretty frightful story when one thinks how valuable some comfortable reliable dmus would have been for many years to replace other ageing units. The Southern Region, who had designed emus from the 1930s onwards that were regularly and reliably (un)/coupled in a couple of minutes, must have been mightily unimpressed that 458s took 10 minutes+. The good news was that we got the Siemens Desiros instead, which are very reliable and (especially the 444s) comfortable. Interesting that Bournemouth sorted out the 458s and got them running to high reliability standards.
The Alstom Coradia family also had a rough start in France. The X72500 and X73500 diesel multiple units which runs on SNCF TER services had a lot of reliability issues, especially the X73500 that had a lot of problems regarding track circuits because of their weight. It caused numerous derailments and accidents at level crossings. The X72500 had door problems and some engine problems like X73500. But they were fixed on first years of services. I don't know about the Coradia Duplex though (Classes Z23500, Z24500 and Z26500). Truly this Alstom period isn't the greatest of all time...
Corradia Duplex has performed pathetically in Sweden (class X40) but the Corradia Lirex units have actually had great success with several regional train companies (class X60, 61 …).
As much as they had their issues. If only they rectified some of them pre release. I like them as they have those beefy motor sounds, the 334s are a bit loud. But 458s have a sweet spot with regards to motor / whine volume. The body shells resemble the networker designs. I assume the metro cammel / uk GEC style trains were what created that nostalgia before they were discontinued. I assume the same company that produced the units were also the same that produce the 96 stock and 465/9s?
I am amazed that going on 200 years since trains were invented and well over 40 years since the Pacer, a basic DMU/EMU can still be badly built. I mean, seriously, how can you screw up the HORN??? Its kind of like Boeing. They made over 1,000 767s, and they made over 1,600 high speed (ie flying boom, vice low speed probe/drogue) air to air refueling planes (KC-97, KC-135), more than everyone else in the world _combined_ , yet they won a bid to make high speed air to air refueling planes for the USAF based on the 767 and have managed to screw up pretty much every measurable aspect of the unit. Theyve been farting around with them for almost 10 years (22 years if you count its cancelled-during-contract-phase-due-to-corruption predecessor, the KC-767) now and STILL are not operational. The may pass end-of-life before they pass initial operational capability (IOC). Doesnt anyone write stuff down after its invented???
Great insight into these units! Shame, as I personally find all 5 of these types visually interesting, especially the 460s and 180s. Shame they were not very reliable. Looked good though! Great rail related video as always mate, keep up the good work sir!👍
Alstom who built and manufactured the Class 175 Coradia DMU shouldn’t go for scrap but to be cascaded to South Western Railway to replace the Class 158 and Class 159 Sprinter Express. Unless SWR were to order new trains to replace the existing diesel units. Or maybe cascade the Class 175 to Great Western Railway to be used in Southwest England such as in Devon, Cornwall, Bristol and Somerset.
Real shame these trains are so horrid in performance, I really like the appearance of the class 180, it's like a more streamlined Voyager without any of the baggage (reputational, not literal) that comes with Virgin Trains.
The fundamental and radical changes that are needed for the UK’s broken rail network will never happen, as too many vested political and other interests at a fundamental level will never allow the much-needed and long overdue changes to happen at any level nor in any area, regardless of funding issues - many have tried in the past and their efforts to date have always ended in either failure or in making the service even worse than before
I work on the ECML, and whenever a class 180 breaks down, we just go “it’s just doing it’s thing”
Remember what Paul Tyreman says
"You'll be going nowhere"
Shame, because the 180 remains the coolest looking MU on the network.
Think there the second least reliable trains going these days.
@@Mr_Phil_B what's the least?
@mburland would say class 150's given their age and milage they've done over the years.
I found the 180s to be very comfortable, which was just as well as you could spend hours in one when they broke down.
*You’ll be going nowhere*
very much looking forward to the same experience with the Romanian Railways' new Alstom EMUs, which everyone (especially the mass media) seem to love cranking one out to solely because they're our first new purchase since 2004... but with Alstom winning every public procurement bid that we've launched since last year or so (not to mention throwing a hissy fit when they lost one in favour of PESA of Poland), we sure have a bright future coming up...
The 180's weren't too bad. Still in use today on Grand Central.
‘However’ {proceed to detail endless inevitable dumpster fire}.
Love your delivery. Great video.
In China,there have a really dumpster train called CR200J which have a higher ticket price without advanced speed or comfortable experience😂
"However" mere moments later, he roasts the coradias harder than their own fires
What's very telling is that none of the operators who took on Coradias bought any more Alstom products afterwards.
Maybe they should have bought them straight from Alstom. Just Australia should have bought the Collins class subs directly from Sweden. Now look nat the mess we're in.
True but I still feel that it's up to the contractor, Alstom, to ensure that the quality is there regardless of where they are built/assembled and the same goes for Seimens who have a similar record when introducing German tech to other countries. Stuff-ups like being too wide for tunnels is unforgivable, no excuse from the operators nor the manufacturer is acceptable.@@thhseeking
@@anthonyxuereb792 this. its not like in the old days when there were more railway manufacturers in every country, nowdays they've been brought out by others (for instance Siemens' electric locos are made by the former Krauss-Maffei works in Munich, Stadler's multiple units are made in a myriad of locations such as Szolnok [HU], Siedlce [PL] or Fanipol [BY] and Hitachi Rail purchased the living disaster known as AnsaldoBreda nearly 10 years ago). they are practically owned by these said companies. it literally does not matter where they are made so long as there are rigurous inspections to see if the vehicles meet the standards of the company or not. cause vehicles could be made at someone's traditional "home factory" and still come out with defects, like we've seen recently in the case of the Boeing 737 MAX whose plugged emergency escape door blew out due to some loose bolts.
Gatwick Express bought class 387s from Bombardier who are now unfortunately owned by Alstom, but they weren't at the time
I guess it makes sense that Amtrak's successor units to the original Acela sets are currently running 3 years behind when they were initially anticipated to enter service due to issues during production and testing: they're being built by Alstom!
The 150s, 153s and 158s outlasted the 175s on the TFW franchise. Astonishing.
As uncomfortable and old the sprinters are they’re extremely reliable and I still enjoy riding them to this day
Good. I'd rather sit in the dirty rust bucket that is the average 150 than on a train that doesn't move at all. Also the 158 super sprinters low key have good seats right now.
The 158s are still the best as most reliable units they have@@knownothing5518
@@knownothing5518158s are pretty good. Though the emr ones always feel cramped to me. Maybe the high seat backs and slender looking interior.
Correct as a matter of fact the sprinters can form a longer train that's coupling Class 150 153 & 158 to each other. Although in Scotland you would see this combination quite common along the fourth Bridge 158 with Bombardier 170 DMU
Interesting parallels with the 1955 BR modernisation plan where, as part of the steam replacement programme, myriad diesel types were procured with resulting reliability, maintainability and operability problems. I wonder if we are doomed to continue not learning the lessons of history.
Metro Cammell used to be one of the best manufacturers for quality. There are London Underground trains built by Metro Cammell that are 50 years old and still running reliably. Also remember the Class 101 DMU, probably the most rattle-free of the 1950s DMUs.
What I like is that the BR Standard Locomotives, mixed results non-withstanding, were built with clear goals and efficiency (maintenance and parts-sharing) as much as possible... While BR said to the first generation of diesels: "DO WHATEVER YOU WANT!"
I guess it was because Diesel technology was a bit new to BR at the time so it was trial-and-error, but the execution of the whole thing... oof....
@@toby070True but down to Riddles the first BR CME who disagreed with dieselisation on economic, security and probably philosophical grounds so he created the Standard Class steam locos. I suspect the diesel debacle was mostly caused by lack of overall objectives and inept procurement. Many of the companies they asked to build the Type 1 diesels were good at steam but utterly inexperienced in diesel, eg North British.
The site "derbysulzers" mentioned that Vickers had welding issues with the Sulzer diesels, leading to cracking as the 12LDAs were uprated to eventually some 2,700 hp. Later, with the 12LVA25s, there were crankshaft issues which were later found to be from fitters incorrectly reassembling the bearings. Washwood Heath seemed to be carrying on that tradition.
@@cedriclynch They built the Metrobuses that at least in Birmingham and the Surrounding area never missed a day of service apart from if one was involved in a Crash or been vandalised, MOT and stuff but in terms of the actual bus reliability they never owed TWM later NXWM any money and were withdrawn after 30 years. Most newer lower floor buses are not going to last that long. They were still using Metrobuses as Driver Trainers but due to Birmingham having an emissions zone I don't think they have these anymore. But the Metrobuses did everything from Local Commuter Routes to Express City Services to Long Distance City to City Commuter services
I love the bbc2 night time education programme/VHS sound you have going on in your videos, it's pleasant to listen to. Too many make videos with very sensitive microphone settings, it's almost too clear or overly bassy.
The alignment of the shot at 23:23 with the commentary is a masterpiece.
And how it then reveals the pacer when he talks about the flaws lol
Now that you mention it, it's funny
My god... the EMU versions of this train are the most 2000s looking trains I've ever seen, with so many "Eye" shapes and ovals...
Just came across your channel doing research for my model railway layout. I have to say what a brilliant, well presented and extremely informative channel it is. Needless to say, I've subbed. Excellent work, atb Graham 🙂👍
You've got a lot to discover in that case.
Yeah, this channel is great
The back catalogue is a fantastic tribute to British engineers and management 😂
I usually watch these wearing my monocle and Union Jack underpants whilst sipping a cup of tea and uttering words like "what ho" and "by jove" 😊
Welcome! This has long been a favourite of Aunt Barbara's.
Someome told me 175s used to have some cleaning and maintenance done in Cardiff Canton as well as at Chester. But when CAF took over their maintenance, Canton was stopped from maintaining them. A couple of months later they started having "thermal incidents".
Pretty much due to reduced maintenance, it’s not an unusual story for trains on the way out of service
Didn't know about Cardiff being involved, but a similar thought crossed my mind. The 175s were not barbecuing themselves until maintenance transferred to CAF.
Either the knowledge was lost, or the management as usual thought they knew better and changed the maintenance cycle or regime.
There must be loads of classes on the railways that have odd niggles and faults, and it's through time and experience that maintenance staff get to know the odd little habits of certain classes and how to keep them running. Like removing accumulated leaf and litter debris in the engine compartment.
Not so much the fault of the unit, more down to CAF's maintenance.
You're correct. Canton was warning TfW about what would happen, and they were right. The expertise at Chester was also lost during the handover to CAF and the new management stopped the cleaning.
@@EE12CSVTstrange to lose the ‘knowledge’ as I thought the Chester TMD staff were TUPE’d over.
Another cracking video, but the pronunciation of “Milngavie” (my hometown) had me laughing! It’s actually pronounced “Mill-guy”, not “Miln-gay-vie”
Rather ironic, considering the earlier comment about "Annoying Annie".
Lovely little town. had the pleasure to work there a few times last decade. I hadn't been warned about the pronunciation in advance and got some very bemused looks when I needed to ask for directions...
A year ago I was chatting to a hiker at Queen Street station waiting for the train to Milngavie so he could start the West Highland Way. He moaned at me about Milngavie not being pronounced the way it was spelt. Then he said he was from El-tam in London. I said "Shouldn't that be El-tham?" Touché!!
My gran lived there in the late 1890s, so I have known how to pronounce it for ever - although I was born and bred in Sussex!
My funniest experience, was the day that I arrived at my local station just outside London to find that it had been unmanned. I pressed the button on the box on the wall to help with an unusual route and connection times. When the girl I was speaking to asked me to spell the names of some of the stations, I casually asked whether she was local. It was hard not to burst out laughing when she replied, "I am working in the southwest trains central call centre", Then added "We are in the Philippines". Talking to a metal box at a deserted station in the drizzling rain, it seemed surreal. I doubt that the poor girl, who sounded about 16, had ever even heard of Scotland.
I was so tempted the following day, to pop into the station and ask her for the quickest route to Moscow. LOL
Your work continues to be a great listen-to. It baffles me how it seems like British railroading can't go five feet without something going wrong anymore.
Older trains were built with constant overhaul and maintenance in mind. This is expensive and when not done correctly - fails. Plus we in the UK run trains well beyond their 10-20 year design life; unreliable. Then we have newer private companies who want to hire new trains, which are not mega expensive, that will run the life of their contracts without major overhaul, and then it doesn’t matter. So basically modern trains are built to run for a decade and be scrapped. Shorter life, but less maintenance doing it. It has translated to more Diesel and electric multiple units, with an engine under each vehicle, difficult to get at, and dirty place to be fitted. Anyone not see a few conceptual problems here? The Railway is a dirty, wet, punishing environment for equipment.
Rare to see Cumbria in any stock rail footage... always a treat.
The 460s were very well looked after at Stewarts Lane and worked ok because of it. Sadly, Alstom's after sales was appallingly bad and the GatEx team often had to work without any help from them. By comparison, Adtranz worked with LTS at East Ham to sort the faults on the 357s, which were initially appalling but went on to become very reliable.
When SWT went for it's big Mk1 fleet replacement programme, Alstom's reliability record effectively put them out of the running, whilst Siemens put a huge amount of emphasis into product support in order to win the business.
Interestingly, the reason that Eastleigh Works shut in 2006 was because it was owned by Alstom, having been purchased in anticipation of winning the SWT fleet order. When Siemens won it, they weren't likely to use their competitor's site so built a depot at Northam, the predecessor of Eastleigh depot before 1909.
In the event Siemens needed a bigger site, but because Alstom had leased Eastleigh Works to KRS, they could now make use of it. In 2024 Siemens still have a major presence at Eastleigh Works but Alstom are long gone
This brings back memories. It was a dark time for the UK's railways, what with other things such as a few serious rail disasters and general discontent from the public with the service the new franchises were providing. Alstom's new train offerings were definitely the most unreliable, though I do recall the Adtranz Electrostar Class 357 also getting some stick for issues and delayed entry to service. In comparison, Adtranz Turbostars seemed to enter service a lot more smoothly, even if they weren't without some issues. I remember the SWT order going with Siemens, and all the coverage of SWT having given up on unreliable British made trains and having to turn to the Germans to help. I also recall media coverage about how Siemens had to "ruin" their test track a little with worse condition track and an erratic third rail power supply to better replicate the crappy tracks the Desiros would have to go over. The Desiros were certainly a good choice for SWT. The funny thing is, having had a bad experience with British built Alstom trains, then a good experience with German built Siemens trains, the south western franchise went back to the British for the Class 701s, and what an absolute joke those have turned out to be to date.
I've only actually gone on a Class 334 out of the whole Coradia family. It was quite pleasant, though they had the heating on warming the legs at the same time as the air conditioning blowing cold from up top at the same time as all the windows being open and giving a draught!
I rode on a few class 458 and 180 trains in the mid 2000s. My impression of them was that they were comfortable, but EXTREMELY lightly built. The Siemens Desiros felt a lot more solid.
Yeah pretty much anything from Siemens is built like a brick shithouse.
The class 458s are actually pretty heavy. But yes they are indeed lighter than 450s. Desiros are over 170 tons vs a class 458 at sround 164 tons . The problem with that is they are much to heavy to supply a good amount of power for them to accelerate fast enough (im talking about 450s) . The power supply at SWT third rail lines weren't adequate for the time they were released onto the tracks. Subsequently 450s are slow as hell as SWT had to heavily order them with inbuilt software/ hardware limitations . It's a shame Really.
Class 458s I have no idea how quick they actually are at acceleration at 4 cars (but we will find out soo ) I will say though, Electrostars were much more reliable as units than 458s, faster than a desiro anyday. And yet Still are sometimes 10 tons lighter than a 450 (near 174 tons) class 377/4s are likely the relitively lightest 377 subset at 4 cars (161 tons) vs the heavier variants ( class 377/2 at 168 tons)both 4 cars
There was a time when The Class 458 Junipers were Confined or Banished to The Waterloo-Reading route via Staines and Ascot after SWT allegedly failed to persuade Porterbrook Leasing to take them back. That said the 458's now work beyond said route after their major overhauls were carried out.
IIRC didn't they always work that route?
@@PinkThorn242The original plan was to eventually replace all the CEP/VEP/BEP/CIGs on every route they ran on with 458s, and to complement the existing 442s. Reading-Waterloo so happened to be the first route to see the 458s in action. When problems came to light, SWT just simply took their business to Siemens, and it was the beginning of the death of Washwood Heath.
Well, the 458's are planned to start running on the waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour route and are currently working on the sets by converting them from the 458/5 to the 458/4. The main thing from this is the removal of the 5th car to return back to a 4 car set and allowing them to reach a higher speed
I think the Reading line unit diagrams are pretty much self-contained, anything diagrammed on that route won't go anywhere else that day apart from the depot at night so it was a wise move then to keep the 458s on the Readings where they could cause the least harm if they sat down. And there they stayed.
@AurumUsagi it's crazy to think if they were more reliable then they'd have alot more junipers running too and from Waterloo to portsmouth
Excellent & highly informative video Ruairidh! Thank you for using my 175 image too :)
If you see what the British railway companies, all of them and to many of them, have buggered up in the past, then it really does not come as a surprise that the also have no idea how and what to purchase when they need trains. This just fits perfectly in the disfunctional idiocy that is the British railway.
Your cat in your profile picture would probably design a better train.
I can remember using the 180s some times in 2003, and it eas like travelling on a loud bouncy castle compared to the HSTs.
I rode on the hst I guess London to Newcastle as a kid in the early 80s....happy memories
Ruairidh : "The problems of their mechanical, technical and design faults"
The 180 revealing a Pacer : *It's showtime !*
As someone who was in work in Wilmslow both days the 175s set on fire at the train station, I cannot understate just how weird that was to hear about.
Like on two separate days that week someone had left to get the train home, come back and gone ‘nope apparently a train’s on fire’
One thing I never understood was how Metro Cammell’s factory turned from one of the most well-loved into one with dubious to no quality control. Both our metro and suburban stock in Hong Kong built by Washwood Heath lasted over 40 years.
I remember 13 years ago riding them every day from brighton to gatwick airport for work, I purchased an anytime return ticket whiich for some reason on the outbound portion being valid for 5 days therefore was able to use the same ticket evey day all week, at a total cost of £14per week, which didnt feel as bad as pay for a £60 weekly season ticket. The return portion was also valid for 31 days, so that was never an issue either.
Another great video, thanks. Didn't know about the clearance issues at Conwy so will keep an eye out next time I go that way.
I have many memories of travelling on 175s from Bangor, passable at best but mostly awful when for example a 2-car unit would be diagrammed to meet one of the ferries at Holyhead. Even when 3-car units were on, they were cramped, no space for luggage, seats too close together adding to the general cramped feel.
The automated announcements were terrible, mangling the Welsh place names, rarely running to time so would announce the wrong stations. Things were so bad that the guard took over doing all the announcements.
Only plus side is they did look good, especially in the Arriva horns.
Luckily I was never on a unit that failed or burst into flames whilst in service, but I'm not sorry to see them go!
Not only did I learn a lot about the Alstom Coradia trains, I now also know how to pronounce 'Llandudno', where I will be vacationing this summer. Thanks!
It's a shame these units were kind of rubbish, I'd still really like a model of the 460, something about that face is just, endearingly derpy! Another great video as always!
I can't with the 460s 😂😂 their so ugly. It would have been better if they looked similar to the first set of electrostars or something . Because Jesus christ that's the ugliest train I've seen. But personalty opinion I guess
On a Class 180 from York to London Kings Cross in the summer. Slow running the whole way through-at one point, a staff member was stuffing tissue into a hole in the wall to stop a water leak.
Slow moving gave me plenty of time to admire the outskirts of Stevenage at least...
An excellent, comprehensive documentary, as always.
2:30am but I can't help myself. I have to watch it now
Excellent work. Some nostalgia for me as you showed a picture of 458s at Reading with the old Metalbox building in the background. I worked in that building for 5 years for Energis in the early 2000s. My desk faced out onto Reading station. FYI the town of Milngavie is pronounced. Mull-guy. Yeah, I don't know how either.
Did you get any good photos of the station from your office?
@@mdhazeldine Not really, it was quite annoying as the windows had a funny blind system where you couldn't raise the blinds out of the way, plus it was at a time when there were no decent digital cameras.
I love the 175s. They are one of the national symbols of Wales to me along with the dragon!
I miss the 175 units so much . The 197s not a patch in them
An utterly brilliant video docu. Thank you.
I particualrly love the fact they were sold on 'proven technology' when they were very much prototyping them at the great expense of the commuter. An absolute farce.
I drove 180s throughout their career with EMR. They were glitches, but nice to drive. As long as you had all engines running they would wipe the floor with a 222 performance wise. 109 and 113 were especially rapid. Shame we didn't keep them longer as our fitters were starting to get on top of the issues.
I really hope the 175s find work elsewhere, despite there flaws they are really nice units to travel on
They'd work well replacing Sprinters, e.g. the Northern routes around Scarborough and Hull
Get them displacing Class 150 Sprinters on Northern until they sort out their own DMU Tender. They still have the original prototypes running regular service and are clearly well past their best.
@@suchcone none of the northern depots have the expertise in maintaining alstom units, their reliability would be woefull under northern
Axing the railway network and privatisation are two of the worst things to ever happen to Britain.
To sum up this family of trains:
Coradia: "Excellent restoration projects, No previous owners"
wait arent the regiolis coradia? they're very good train
IMHO it is a bit unfair to blame the Met-Camm plant for the issues. The issues the 180 and the similar Coradia Juniper classes was due to cost cutting instigated from Alstom's HQ in France. The Met-Camm plant was able to produce the 1995/56 tube stock, Class 390 and the X3 for Sweden without the same issues.
Great find. Yes, I remember the Gla Central Station Annie. So it was not just me then. :>))
Every railway has its version of fundamentally flawed rolling stock. But many got stuck with these duds. Fortunately there were never any deaths or injuries, just a lot of very angry and frustrated passengers and personnel. (No doubt some enthusiasts who rode them knew what they were in for.) At least they had many attractive paint schemes.
Never been into trains until your videos keep up the good work 😀
Say what you like but the Class 175 have the best noise insulation of all the 3td gen DMUs. It was possible to sleep very well on them on the late night/early morning trips to and from Holyhead. I miss them on TFL services.
Another awesome video Ruairdh
It's a real shame they couldn't get the 'Adelante' to be more reliable.
I only travelled on one once, from Reading down to Pewsey, and it was fast, comfortable and easily the best ride quality of any train I'd been on previously.
Pity, the bodyshell of the classes 175 and 180 bay size is the golden dimension of 1.90 metres, which optimises window/seat alignment.
Morning Ruairdh, i've got me tea. 🙂
Get kettle on 😂
thats my saturday morning if i get up before 8, tea and a macveigh train video 😄
@@oldfatbastad6053 don’t blame you ❤️ his channel
They certainly some of the more interesting looking trains. I will miss seeing them on the marches line
I take a 458 every so often and they're comfy trains. That's about as much as I care to compliment them for half of the time. Squeaky, rattly, woeful and at times it just randomly makes loud noises for no apparent reason. Plus I don't think these trains were much of a looker (the 460 just looks daft, the 175 looks like a multi-storey, the 458 was an eyesore then and it's not a looker now). Mind you my opinions change here and there as I mainly compare it to the Class 455... no.
+1 for this video, comprehensive and well-done
Virgin Trains hired two Class 180's after the loss of Pendolino 390033 "City of Glasgow" but never used them as they decided to use Pretendolino WB64 instead
Excellent video, when i go to the UK, i might go on a coradia or a juniper to see the ride quality.
You really make my Saturdays when you release a video about trains. Thank you so much.
Britain is not the only country to experience issues with Alstom rail equipment, here in Canada we have problems with their equipment too
france has no issues with alstom. in the coradia series has regiolis witch has no problems
Great documentary again ❤
Northern didnt sell first class tickets for the 180s when they had them.
Made an odd journey from bolton to manchester in the first class carriages 😊
The 180 “ Adelante” or Coradia S as they were known as initially were being built for First North Western to operate Holyhead- London Euston Services however the SRA ( Strategic Rail Authority) refused First North Western permission so 14 5 car units were being built but had no home / use
So First Great Western took them on .
I worked them for FGW alongside the HST’s on the onboard catering section, The biggest annoyance for me & the relevant affected customers and not a snob was first class Coach D was between 2 Std class coaches C&E , First class would of been better as coach E so less walk through and delays to the first class at seat service .
Personally i don’t think they were that bad for reliability considering the work duties/ time working they were doing .
Really informative. Thank you.
The 175s are very comfortable and give a great smooth ride.
Absolutely spot in the 175 were wonderful in comparison to the new 197s
The 180 "youll be going nowhere "
Im surprised theyve lasted this long
Just a small error, milngavie is pronounced mill-guy, it's a common mistake. Other than that wonderful video as always 😊
The Alstom-GEC merger was a disaster for British industry, Alstom ran-down and failed to invest in almost every former GEC facility and now most have closed. GEC Preston used to make high quality traction motors and electric gear - gradually starved of orders, now closed. Washwood Heath was admitedly in need of investment, which it should have got given the number of orders going through it in the 90's, but as the video shows, this didn't happen and the results are clear. Now closed of course. The ex Metropolitcan Vickers works in Manchester is a similar story. Thankfully some of the heavier electrical engineering side of things was saved by GE USA and continues in Stafford and Rugby. Let's just say I'm not optimistic about Alstom running the former Bombardier plant in Derby well...
175s ended up being reliable and are really nice units to ride on I’m very saddened they’ve now left TfW had lots of good memories riding on them and I’ve always had a big soft spot for them, I’m not keen on the 197s
I couldn't agree more.
CR400BF-5033:You are my best friend!We are good at malfunctioning and make passengers angry!
I have nothing of use to add here, I just thought I'd mention how the 460 reminds me of Emu off of Rod Hull and Emu off of the telly.
I recall reading that the cost of refreshing the 458's to meet the disability discrimination legislation was only cost effective when someone came up with the idea of putting magnifying glass over the front destination display which would otherwise have had smaller font than required under the legistlation.
it did seem a bit odd to me considering there were many passenger trains at the time which didn't even feature destination screens.
The 460s were definitely the most futuristic looking of the Coradia family. Unfortunately I never had the chance to travel on one. I have had many, many trips on the 334s on the Ayrshire coast and on the north Clyde line, to where they were cascaded after the introduction of the Siemens Class 380s on the Ayrshire routes.
I do think the 460 front ends were gastly.
@@bb-3653 I find your lack of faith disturbing.
@SteamboatWilley hahaha I get the refrence. 😬🤣🤣🤣even darth vader looks better than this thing.
Thanks for that video. Well, Alstom locomotives and EMUs always had some teething issues unlike Siemens or Stadler.
or even some old BREL engines.
Siemens and Stadler have also had teething issues, if not catastrophic
@@andrewreynolds4949 well, according to Siemens Desiro Rus experience those EMUs had lesser problems with engines or inverters than Alstom production.
@@runoflife87 As I said, Siemens and Stadler trains have also had issues, if not catastrophic ones like the Coradias or the Avelia Liberty units for example. The Greater Anglia units from Stadler had issues when they were first introduced, and Amtrak's Charger locomotives have had quite a few issues as well, including suffocating from light snowfall
I just remembered that one of those Class 175's which was taken out of service due to fire damage sat in Chester Railway Station for years...I think that's the one caught fire in Prestatyn. And I was stuck on a 175 for nearly 2 hours where it limped to Llandudno Junction but other than that one time, the 175s haven't been too bad in my experience. Same with the 180s, rode a couple when Northern Rail had them running to Blackpool, was a little overkill though as I had a carriage to myself at one point. Nevertheless, those Coradia's are notorious for breaking down constantly.
Yeah those annoying annies used to call lanark
Blanark
I remember one time a few years ago when a class 334 went past with a big wheel flat, it sounded like a metal getting pounded by a jackhammer and as loud as one too, and that wasn’t even at full speed too, would hate to think how it sounded at full speed
Any chance of some Irish stock someday? I have loved your content for many years now ! ❤
There is a promising update about the Class 175's. They may be going to a new operator soon. They'll most likely go to either Northern or ScotRail.
Class 175 is going to Great western railway
@@Hi-by2pt I knew that before you told me. This was two months ago.
The met cam legacy of hopelessness continued to the bitter end.
Just to update on the 458s. SWR are converting them back to 4 car sets. The origial plan was to take up the failed 442 diagrams over the Guildford Direct route. But the latest rumour seems to be that they will be used on the Brockenhurst- Lymington line and local stopping trains (Bournemouth-Winchester), freeing up 450's for a possible new Portmouth-Weymouth service.
They are being re-geared as well I believe
@@ewsclass66 yes from 75 up to 100 I believe.
@@ewsclass66yep, research "class 458/4" on you tube and you will see footage of them with their lateral dampers back on the bogies. Meaning they can go back to higher speeds. Lower weight (40 tons taken off via the 5th carriage) means re gearing them to max speed will heavily reduce the likely hood of the motor overloading drastically.
The rail companies all bought/rented the cheapest sets for profits, but ended up paying more for reliability pushing up rail fares for their incompetence.
I remember the Spanish C.A.F. units Northern Rail bought and the staff maintaining them said C.A.F. stood for Cheap As F**K.
Loool, well at least CAF can take the criticism now and hopefully modify any future models (that would be the smart thing to do). They have already rectified alot of their units to have better reliability it would seem.
The class 195s and 331s have been modified with better lateral dampers for better shock absorption. They look like the strangest set of dampers I've seen ,but as long as they work then that's what matters I guess.
For future it's looking harsh for the production of new aventras because alstom/(derby) are having problems keeping the plant open. And even on time with their orders , And seimens apparently don't really have shop set up for new desiro cities at the moment. So it's looking like CAF and stadler are likely best candidates for any near future purchases for traction. Northern rail/lner/southeastern/ and southern are likely gonna order some units at some point in the next (now) to 10 years
Let's hope CAF improve their newer fleet for the new LNER fleet and any other potential TOCs etc.
Yes indeed CAF built the Midland Metro's Urbos 2 Trams and Urbos 3's although The Urbos 3's had long entered service or hadn't fully they were taken out of service for cracks in the chassis meaning the entire line between Wolverhampton and Birmingham you had to get a Train or two buses in the 79 from Wolverhampton to West Bromwich following the Tram to Moxley/Bilston Border then continuing through Darlaston where a lot of people got on To Wolverhampton me included as we didn't get the Tram or Train. Then they followed the Tram from Wednesbury to West Bromwich where you had to get the 74 which followed the Tram from West Bromwich to Birmingham the 74 is every 5 minutes 10 minutes to Dudley and West Bromwich combined so wouldn't have been to overcrowded but if the M5 J1 was screwed the 74 would be Screwed. The 79 was every 10 to 12 minutes so got absolutely rammed and ran in convoys at peak times due to them constantly stopping outside the Tram Stops. Then Engineering work took place then The Trams failed again for the same issue and they had actually found Cracks a few years Prior on the Urbos 2 before fixing the affected Trams. NX who ran the Midland Metro due to running the buses didn't order them it was TFWM or Centro at the time who ordered them and NX Ran them they never had these issues until TFWM took over the Metro of NX
I love travelling on 180s, one of the comfiest trains on the network. Think their reliability issues comes from the fact they’re diesel hydraulic rather than electric, wonder why they went with that.
Don’t forget Coradia is the diesel, Junipers are the electrics.
A pretty frightful story when one thinks how valuable some comfortable reliable dmus would have been for many years to replace other ageing units. The Southern Region, who had designed emus from the 1930s onwards that were regularly and reliably (un)/coupled in a couple of minutes, must have been mightily unimpressed that 458s took 10 minutes+. The good news was that we got the Siemens Desiros instead, which are very reliable and (especially the 444s) comfortable. Interesting that Bournemouth sorted out the 458s and got them running to high reliability standards.
Alstom… Unreliable… in the same sentence??? I’m shook!
7:21 well that's a lot less nice then ghe term we have in the states. "Cabbage Car", because it has a cab and also baggage.
Once again a very well presented and informative video. Always a great joy to watch your railways related content. 👍
Considering that this is the same factory that gave us the 1983 Tube Stock as well...
And the D Stock, 95TS, 96TS… your point?
The Alstom Coradia family also had a rough start in France.
The X72500 and X73500 diesel multiple units which runs on SNCF TER services had a lot of reliability issues, especially the X73500 that had a lot of problems regarding track circuits because of their weight. It caused numerous derailments and accidents at level crossings. The X72500 had door problems and some engine problems like X73500. But they were fixed on first years of services.
I don't know about the Coradia Duplex though (Classes Z23500, Z24500 and Z26500).
Truly this Alstom period isn't the greatest of all time...
Corradia Duplex has performed pathetically in Sweden (class X40) but the Corradia Lirex units have actually had great success with several regional train companies (class X60, 61 …).
I always found the 175's comfortable to ride on
As much as they had their issues. If only they rectified some of them pre release. I like them as they have those beefy motor sounds, the 334s are a bit loud. But 458s have a sweet spot with regards to motor / whine volume.
The body shells resemble the networker designs.
I assume the metro cammel / uk GEC style trains were what created that nostalgia before they were discontinued. I assume the same company that produced the units were also the same that produce the 96 stock and 465/9s?
Thank you Rory dear. Brilliant.
Fine work as always. Aunt Barbara's favourite far and away!
I am amazed that going on 200 years since trains were invented and well over 40 years since the Pacer, a basic DMU/EMU can still be badly built. I mean, seriously, how can you screw up the HORN???
Its kind of like Boeing. They made over 1,000 767s, and they made over 1,600 high speed (ie flying boom, vice low speed probe/drogue) air to air refueling planes (KC-97, KC-135), more than everyone else in the world _combined_ , yet they won a bid to make high speed air to air refueling planes for the USAF based on the 767 and have managed to screw up pretty much every measurable aspect of the unit. Theyve been farting around with them for almost 10 years (22 years if you count its cancelled-during-contract-phase-due-to-corruption predecessor, the KC-767) now and STILL are not operational. The may pass end-of-life before they pass initial operational capability (IOC). Doesnt anyone write stuff down after its invented???
Id love to see an documentary on the Optare Metrodecker
Great insight into these units! Shame, as I personally find all 5 of these types visually interesting, especially the 460s and 180s. Shame they were not very reliable. Looked good though!
Great rail related video as always mate, keep up the good work sir!👍
“Interesting” is definitely one way to describe the 460s 😂
The 460s were amazing, every time I was on it, there was no problem
The front face of class 460 looks similar to the Siemens Charger locomotive units of Brightline’s push-pull trains in Florida.
And I always thougut Alstom always made quality products.
Alstom who built and manufactured the Class 175 Coradia DMU shouldn’t go for scrap but to be cascaded to South Western Railway to replace the Class 158 and Class 159 Sprinter Express. Unless SWR were to order new trains to replace the existing diesel units.
Or maybe cascade the Class 175 to Great Western Railway to be used in Southwest England such as in Devon, Cornwall, Bristol and Somerset.
But the 158s and 159s still seem pretty reliable and are very comfortable.
Yeah they do actually.
I'm over here in the States watching this, and expecting to see Thomas and Mr. Toppen Hat, and wondering where they fit in
Spot your own 'annoying Annie' moment lol oh the irony.
Great video as usual though.
Real shame these trains are so horrid in performance, I really like the appearance of the class 180, it's like a more streamlined Voyager without any of the baggage (reputational, not literal) that comes with Virgin Trains.
The fundamental and radical changes that are needed for the UK’s broken rail network will never happen, as too many vested political and other interests at a fundamental level will never allow the much-needed and long overdue changes to happen at any level nor in any area, regardless of funding issues - many have tried in the past and their efforts to date have always ended in either failure or in making the service even worse than before
I really enjoy your videos, but I find the sound quality really grating. What Microphone are you using?
When apart from Brightline in the US has private rail ever been good for the consumer?
When I heard Voigt hydraulic drive I said to myself, "oh no, not again!"