Too many of these "X vs Y" demonstrations are a skilled practitioner against a beginner. It's nice to see a demonstration where both practitioners are suitably skilled.
I don’t know much about the kendo, but the épée fencing is skilled. But I see sometimes the fencing stay stationary for the kendo to show an attack instead of moving backwards to avoid getting hit.
True, but... while some of principles would stay same, if you change epee for 1,3kg rapier and shinai for shorter, significantly heavier and differently balanced katana and change the goal from "tapping the point" to deal some serious damage (and don't die in same time), then there will be very different approach to the fight. Even tho this is interresting showcase clearly demonstrating some aspects exactly because of the reason you mentioned..
@@Tkoutlosh Realistically: if you do not practice Kendo actively, you have no frame of reference on how it feels to get hit. I’ve had two separate concussions from regular practice working with a sensei at the competitive level. Leaving my personal experience aside, one thing about the video-the kendo competitor is intentionally only striking men (mask). My guess is because he is nervous about striking off target and injuring the fencer. Feel free to watch the Korean national team practices for reference.
@@bobbyliu96 The kendo person is very strong. The reason the fencer is having trouble has to do with footwork pressure. Things might change if they weren’t fighting on the piste though.
You can clearly see at first both players are quite confused about how to defend against unfamilar attack pattern, but they gradually grasp it and incorporate to their own attack combo. True skill indeed
And this is how we go from specialized fighting styles (karate/kendo/HEMA/etc), designed to beat other specialized fighting styles, into a mixed style method (MMA). If your fighting style cannot/will not adapt, you lose. This is a wonderful example of two skilled fighters adapting and using the other's style against them. Wonderful!
@@alger8181 Sort of, but not quite. It's not so much as incorporating a new style. It's changing their technique and how they go about it. You can clearly see it's still the same patterns, but it's changed up. Fighting really comes down to feints, and reading your opponents attacks to see if they're feinting or planning to strike. It's all really iffy to explain. If they were incorporating different techniques though, they'd have changed stances to a different sword style completely, which neither did. It's more so, they started to read each others patterns and so tried using their style in a way that can exploit the weaknesses.
True skill my ass. Neither of these guys seem to be able to read the completely predictable attacks which keep coming over and over. The fencer is gonna thrust. The kendo guy is gonna cut to the head. Both of them are too overspecialised.
@@joebloggs5318 Maybe you should watch again and actually see the feints they're performing before attacking. It's not about where they're hitting, but from which direction. Sword play isn't like the movies.
I am impressed with how fast the kendo practitioner was at parrying and countering the fencer immediately. It all happen at the blink of an eye. When the fencer weaves in feigns, you can tell they’re becoming much more successful at landing those hits. The fact that it only took a few rounds for the two combatants to figure out how to defend and attack, shows the skill of each fighter. Great job!
@@sulblazer lol wym “real fight?” No one is walking around with fencing sword or katana challenging others to a duel, if that’s what you’re imagining. If it’s a street fight, not only is this illegal - but it’s usually unfair. Street fights typically is a 1v2+ fight, involving cheap shots. What we’re seeing are two martial artists showing their ability to adapt.
The fact that the Kendo practitioner managed to basically evenly match with the fencer when he was only allowed to move in one axis is damn impressive and shows training that transfers to multiple situations
As someone who has no idea about the two sports i can only see that the kendo guy is at a disadvantage since he uses swinging attacks thus he has to parry first then swing which allows the fencing guy to attack first due to the stabbing movement
@@mistypeaks1375 it’s not a disadvantage, it’s just how their practice goes. you can’t say that a kickboxer has an advantage against someone doing boxing because they are using kicks and boxing isn’t, that’s not a valid reason. 🤦🏻♂️
the kendo practitioner would potentially be at a much larger disadvantage here if they had chosen a better fencing sword, but they went with a normal competition epee which is much shorter and smaller hand protection. fencing is just not well represented here. katana vs rapier is a much different situation where the rapier has significant reach advantage as well as hand and arm protection.
@@justanotherguy3417 Lol what. Having more or better tools (kicks have more reach and can hit legs, more things to keep track of etc.) is not an advantage? Aight bro. Please explain that one for my dumb self.
Some personal views from someone who practiced Kendo for eight years: modern Kendo is mostly based on one school of Kendo, with a heavy emphasis on targeting the head, which may not be the most efficient way of combat. I guess in this match we are basically seeing thrusts of a slightly longer lighter weapon vs. cut from above from a heavier weapon. The Kendo's parry with its tip when the fencer is half committed might be the only effective counter here. The fencer cannot effectively parry in this match because of the weight difference. It will be nicer if we can allow more side steps in this match (I guess it will bring more skills out). Again this is amazing and thank you for bringing this to everyone.
I agree, I am not experienced in Kendo, but allowing the Kendo user an circular area where he can change angles of approach would change the dynamic a lot. He seems slightly disadvantaged by not being able to side step. At the same time the fencer will have never trained under those conditions so maybe this was the best way to have a more competitive scenario. Also those metal strips aren't exactly pleasant to shuffle barefoot on.
I appreciate your perspective, but this is somewhat inaccurate. Modern Kendo curriculum is an amalgamation of the most popular koryu at the time of the system’s inception. The reason for pressuring the face (men) comes from the understanding taken from lived experience from the original Dai Nippon Butokukai, with the specific idea that Kendo should be taught to both police and the military. Pressuring the face (men) is mentioned directly in Go Rin No Sho. It both causes natural reactions in the opponent, precipitating gaps in their defense and setting up separate lines of attack in the event of closure. I can’t underscore enough how personal skill represents the most significant difference in any contest. Just because this epeeist chooses not to try a technique does not mean it cannot be done.
@@michaellindsay5705 just to clarify, you’re saying that it is inaccurate to say Kendo is disadvantaged by being able to circle his opponent because modern kendo is practiced more head on?
@@arkifane I’m referencing the point about targeting the head. There’s plenty of evidence (not only literature) to support it. In regards to “head on,” I’m not sure what you’re referring to. The shiai-jo in Kendo is a square-many matched begin with circling right or left to create an opening. There’s no rule in Kendo that says we have to attack straight on. In the case of this video, while fighting on the piste may be a little uncomfortable, I can’t see it being a tremendous disadvantage. I thought it might be the first time I saw the match, but it’s clearly not significant by the last point.
@@michaellindsay5705 oh my bad, I got the UA-cam notification of your comment and thought it was directly responding to what I wrote. I see now you were addressing the parent comment. Sorry for the confusion.
the kendoka is at a bit of a disadvantage since they’re competing in a piste and he is limited to forward and back movements where as normally in kendo you compete in a circle and can move side to side also, but this is quite good.
They should have done this in a freestyle full contact scenario with both of them using blunted metal weapons. All of the techniques and none of the sport rules. That would be very interesting.
Dude the kendoka is so skilled. I honestly expected the fencer to have a huge advantage but the kendoka delivered some heavy counterattacks. Quality duels. Absolutely loved it
The kendoka worked out that since the fencer has the advantage of speed + reach with his lunge, his best approach was to move in close enough so that when the fencer makes his attack, the kendoka sweeps the blow aside so it misses and then counter-attacks while the fencer is still committed to the lunge and can't dodge. The advantage still lies slightly with the fencer because feints or an early attack means the kendoka may not be able to react in time to avoid the blow, but the fact that the scores were as close as they were really speaks volumes about the kendoka's skill, yeah. :)
@Professor Frog In terms of weight, the epee's actually heavier. It's 550g for the shinai vs. 770 g for the epee. It's the two handed grip giving better leverage that makes the shinai more difficult to knock aside.
it's quite interesting to see how 2 different dueling styles match against eachother. different styles, different weapons, even different scoring systems by the looks of things. both competators seem to be a little unsure to begin with, facing against unfamiliar weapons, yet as the bout continues you can see them gaining an understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of the other's weapon and style and using that knowledge to the full. excellent, truly excellent.
I have done both Kendo and Fencing and this video thrilled me. The epee fencer had more target area (anywhere on the body) than the kendoka. (Therefore the kendoka was wearing an extra fencing vest over his bogu.) It took a few bouts for each of the players to figure out how to defend areas and strikes they wouldn't normally need to in their own sport, but they really started figuring it out. Would be fun to see this played in a kendo ring, and not tied to a straight line like the piste. Fascinating to watch their progress. Thank you for whoever made this and shared it.
In Kendo, the kendoka doesn't always fight in a forward motion. Are there not circular motions around the opponent as well or is competition always in a forward motion?
@@jameslucas5590 The "ring" in which you fight is square and you are free to wander around it in Kendo. In fencing you are stuck in the narrow "lane" (the piste). So the kendoka in this bout was restricted from attacking in a manner he would be more used to by having to stay on the fencing piste.
Yeah I wouldn't have expected epee vs kendo to be nearly as interesting as it turned out to be. I was pleasantly surprised. The epee made use of his bell guard to compensate for the lighter weapon that I found really interesting.
You are obviously far more qualified to speak here than I am (having zero kendo experience coupled with zero fencing experience :p). Something that I noticed is that this reminded me of point-sparring vs Sanshou. It seems that this was focused around a touch = point system which I believe would favor the epee. It seems that the kendo practitioner scores far more hits that I would view as decisive while the fencer gets far more points which are "technical" but lack power. All in all I enjoy this concept but I feel (again as a total outsider) that the rules may be biased. Perhaps a better insight would come from the fencer using something like a saber & rules focusing on lethal hits vs simple touches. You raise a great point in regards to linearity. Allowing a full circle would change the game and while it may throw the fencer off for a bit I'd love to see how this leads to an evolution of the sport.
@@danielmegibben1659 one of the challenegs with armed combat sports is how to tell if something is a decisive hit or not. What could just be a tiny slice to someone's arm could have chopped their hand off. A gentle thrust to the chest could have punctured a lung. In Olympic style fencing, the tip of weapon has a pressure plate, and you don't score a point unless you hit your opponent with a certain amount of force (I believe it's 7 newton's, but I haven't fenced in a long time). There's also target area restrictions depending on the sport. Sabre is upper body, foil is torso, and epee is the whole body. There is a historical reason for the point system, since duels were often fought just to first blood, not always to the death. There has been a lot of interest in more realistic rule sets lately though. The sport M1 is fought in full plate armor, and interest in HEMA (historical European martial arts) is growing too (at this point though, it's probably just HMA. Plenty of those guys study kendo and Asian martial arts too) Still, the challenge with armed sports is a decisive blow with a blade means your opponent is gravely injured. Realistic rules in unarmed sports are easier, because you just knock each other out. Replicating that with swords is a bit more difficult. I've never participated in HEMA, but it seems the solution to this is the honor system. When combatants are sparring, they just kind of use their best judgement, and discuss whether or not a blow would have been serious.
The kendoka was deliberately going for the head to avoid injuring the guy though. In a more serious bout there would have been at least a few attempts at a throat strike.
As a practitioner of Kendo, my Sensei would always stress that "men", the (figurate) cut of the top 5cm of the head, is the only real strike, everything else is preparation. Tsuki, the throat stab, is only for the very advanced practitioners and should be used rarely and with extreme care. This Kendoka is clearly highly skilled and focus on the essence of Shinai Kendo.
I've been practicing the Japanese sword with various disciplines mainly Kendo for many years now. I like this video and I agree that it's fun going against other fighting systems. There's an organization in my country where they actually host events like these and it's fun. With my experience, fighting someone who uses Eskrima/Arnis fightning systems are one of the hardest ones to go against because their system's doctrine basically teaches you that anything you can grab is a weapon and that system has an extremely wide range of offense and defence techniques. Great video and great editing.
When I was younger "arnis" is my sport and I agree with you on this one. ✌️😁 Anything can be a weapon as long you can wield it defensively and offensively quite well.
As someone who was schooled in fencing from primary school, I can say that sports fencing isn't close to combat fencing and has been heavily adapted for safety reasons. As a karate practitioner as well, I'd liken it to how tournament and points karate is very different to MMA karate. You likely noticed the lack of head defence. This is a weakness introduced by the sporting varient. You'll also notice he uses an epee, combat styles often used sabers, which could use the edge. I think a saber style would have been better here, especially as it might have allowed horizontal combat. Allowing both combatants to better explore their abilities.
I'm a former karate point fighting champion and it was lame and dangerously far from reality. I'm better protected and happier now training boxing and bjj with 1/6 the training time.
"You'll also notice he uses an epee, combat styles often used sabers, which could use the edge. I think a saber style would have been better here, especially as it might have allowed horizontal combat. Allowing both combatants to better explore their abilities." 100% agreed, would have made things much more interesting.
@@Quoxozist plus it was two handed vs one handed, if the katana had been up against a two handed great sword it would have gone differently. And both weapons work better with more a wider area than a fencing lane.
As a former competitive 3-weapon fencer but predominantly a saber fencer, I'm going to disagree. Epee is a much better choice for cross-discipline combat because it dispenses with Right-of-Way. It's instructive because the epeeist has little head defense, loses half the body as target (I assume everything below the waist is off-target because Kendo is restricted to 4 target areas; head, throat, left, and right) and has a tasty target area with no hand guard. Against the heavier shinai(?), pressures might work but binds would not which makes the body and head targets fraught with risk. I was impressed by the kendoist's ability to protect his hands and his grace in gliding on attack (many competitive epeeists bounce too much and this slows their attack). He maintained a solid command of distance though partly I think this epeeist's style played into it; I've faced many epeeists who prefer to give ground to their 2-meter line.
Yes. Fencing “sword” here also lacks rigidity and in multiple situations it was impossible for the fencer to defend from boken, it has crushed through the defence
Love how natural, new and exciting this cross-duel be like,. Not to mention those fancy Hollywood swordfights. Imma take note for my concept art portfolio
I was just going to comment that. Choreographed stylized fights are cool and all, but watching that duel was almost anxiety-enducing. Even small movements have so much weight and meaning.
what do you mean by "hollywood" sword fingting ? these aint a real swordfighting either , fencing and kendo are a pure sport , they made it specially to get point and contested it , samurai uses kenjutsu , and european (based on fencing) use variety of techniques depend ot what you use (sabre/rapier) and when to use it , (duel or in the middle of war chaos)
@@ruhzzyy i mean i don't like those over the top hollywood acrobatic swordfightings., and although this is a cross-duel/cross-sport. what i mean to say is although it's a sport, the idea of two different techniques clashing while both utilizing distance, timing and defense to name a few is awesome,.
@@patpatpatzi7089 i know what you're saying but sometimes they actually do , when it comes to sword fighting, we are talking about a very quick fight , that lasts around 3-6 minutes , every hit could be fatal, they can die/disabled from 1 lethal hit , even a kenjutsu master miyamoto mushashi , does a jump to avoid his enemy attack , throw a sand to enemy eyes, rocks, some even use kunai / throwing star in a middle of duel ,sword fighting are just over romanticize story because back in the middle age europe , it was a symbol of wealth , while in japan it merely a soldier weapon, samurai just like any other middle age military , mostly use spear and bow to fight a war , real sword fight are short, cruel , and mean.
@@homelessman3483 I think JKD is great, it's basically MMA with self-defense focus, while MMA is more competitive and sport oriented. I practiced JKD for two years with a great teacher in Taiwan, he was competing in Muay-Thai as well. I think JKD is good but most of schools are shit! There's nothing too special about it either. It can be awesome or pure shit I suppose, almost no quality control.
Absolutely loved this. Épee was definitely the right choice here, but it would be interesting to see how a foil or saber fencer would have done. I don't think it's feasible because of how right-of-way works but it would have been interesting because, from what I've seen, those two fencing styles train for much more explosive movement than any other combat sport.
@@ozanozenir2503 If it is about weight and shape, an epee is getting parried just as easily as the other two. This makes foil and saber faster with no downside of easier parries. The style does actually matter because of target area and right of way. There's no significant shape difference between the three weapons either.
@@sharkastic2633 no you dont get it. İ said the foil is much lighter and thiner than epee so it will be so hard to block the kendo strikes. Even the epee in this video shows how difficult it was to block and foil is even thiner. Just think about it. İts like trying to block a punch with a paper. Foil can attack pretty much the same way with epee. However defence will be even harder than epee.
I really appreciate the editing of this video. The slow motions of fast attacks, repeated shots from different angles, as well as the blood effects showing the hits, all make this for an enjoyable watch that is easy to follow. Thanks!
This looks like a really fun club and I like the attempts to compare and contrast different sword styles. I would have preferred them having more mobility options other than the limited fencing track. Being able to move and circle one another would allow for the exploitation of better angles, still it looks like a good time.
It’s not as obvious as it seems. My fencing instructor in Italy also was a kendoka and when I was younger I asked this very same question “why fencers only go in a linear fashion’ as opposed to kendo or other fencing systems. His answer was quite definitive and explains why even if the strip is 1.5 to 2 metres wide a top level fencer will rarely use even a fraction of its lateral space. The reason was that the blades are 500g(foil) to 750g (epee) and lightness of the sword coupled with the acceleration of the hand and the lunge makes sidestepping or dodging an attack a low percentage strategy. In short the blade can accelerate horizontally quicker than you can displace your body sideways. This also explains why theres very little attempt to dodge a blade in high level fencing. If you try and circle with your feet to find a better angle all the opponent has to do to cover that angle is to track you with an angulation of the wrist. Its oddly enough the one error that we punish beginners with. Whenever they waste time finding a better angle you punish them with a counterattack on preparation. After a while they ‘get it’ and see circling has diminishing returns. Back in the 2000’s we didn’t have wireless equipment so it was hard to know if he was right. We do now and we can move round and experiment at will, and the result is exactly the same: the fencer who circles gives away time and distance to the fencer who sticks to a straight line and gets countered. BUT...and this is a big BUT. The heavier a sword gets to 1kg the less this rule applied because the hand cannot accelerate or change direction as easily if it is weighted. If fencing with rapiers longswords or heavier sabres circling becomes a real possibility because opponents cant take advantage of the sidestep. In short forcing an opponent to fence in a straight line is a product of the advantage the fencing sword gets by giving up robust mass and its ability to cut.
@@inthedenoftigers5702 thanks for your explanation that reveals the difference between foil usage vs authentic weapons. While I like fencing and kendo, I still prefer the martial applications of kenjutsu and HEMA respectively. Sometimes the sporting equipment places too many restrictions to capabilities and strategies. Thanks again for the explanation.
@@torstenscott7571 i think the problem lies in that when people do HEMA longsword they don’t see that what applies for a longsword doesn’t apply for a 18th century smallsword or a 19th century epee (and a sport epee is functionally IDENTICAL to a duelling epee in weight and handling). Its only until you do fencing with lighter duelling weapons that you realise that lateral movement gives very little benefit with weapons that light. People died in duels making that mistake. Conversely sport fencers who move to HEMA rapiers fight in a linear fashion because the weapons are similar, and eventually realise that circling is a valid tactic, because rapiers though similar to smallswords are so much heavier and have different properties.
@@inthedenoftigers5702 When I refer to HEMA, I am not limiting it to longsword practices, but the sabre and rapier treatises as well. In the case of foil fencing, I would see it as supplemental to the authentic combative forms of rapier and smallsword.
That's what I like about watching martial arts and those trained with certain weapon styles at a high level. It's so impressive it gets you pumped up to wanna know how
Impressive work by the kendo practitioner, all things considered. closing the distance on a fencer with a mid range slashing blade feels like an impossible task without tremendous skill and reflexes.
That was very interesting. I felt like a surprising amount of the losses from the epee were when he attempted a standard party and the heavier weapon blew through it. Great adaptation from both sides to work around the differences.
Yeah lol, 8 years of fencing here, most people don't realize how light the blade actually is. A light tap can send it pretty far. Must be hard to adapt to something you actually need to push away
In terms of weight, the epee (which should weigh about 770g) is actually heavier than the bamboo shinai (which is about 550g). What makes the shinai's strikes more powerful is the two handed grip.
Yeah, especially since they're not even playing by the same rules. They were both massively disadvantaged and hamstrung by the fact that the other guy was allowed to do things they couldn't do.
I have long been puzzled over what a Kendo vs. Épée match would do. I’m a former épée fencer but my knowledge of kendo is limited to watching the famous film Samurai (I = Musashi Miyamoto, 1954; II = Duel at Ichijoji Temple, 1955; III = Duel at Ganryu Island, 1956) starring Toshirô Mifune. Actually, what I watched in 1970 was a condensed version of the trilogy (since these three films total more than five hours); It was very interesting and left a lasting memory. From this, my impression of kendo was that - after a period of intense observation - the decisive action would take place in an instant attack, with parry or opposition and decisive blow. It turns out that épée fencing has followed over the last fifty years an evolution bringing it closer to kendo. Preparation is paramount, attacks are now often simultaneous, and one single thrust is now made with, in many cases, a simple opposition of blade. Thus modern (2021) épée fencing - with its emphasis on distance, speed, and the timing of one decisive thrust - has acquired a kinship with kendo which was not obvious fifty years ago! ___ .
i don't know how much "fencing" type art there is but for the art of the nihonto ( japanese sword) there is many and not all use the shinai ( bamboo sword) that was not for exemple what i used in iaido but one thing disturb me is that they was fighting in a "line" and that's not the type of fighting area a nihonto user use, so i think they was a tiny bit advantage for the fencer because the " advantage" of the shinai bein heavyer is downed by the light weight of the fencer sword that give him more speed!
Don't think that will happen any time soon. Kendoka in these type of mix weapon fights usually don't want to use protection gears from different arts, and their gears won't be enough to protect the user from a saber blow. Sabres are heavy hitter, even the practice version made of plastic or blunt steel can still hit like a brick and it hurts like hell even when wearing HEMA gears, unless you're usimg SPES gloves
At first, I thought that the fencer was more practical and efficient but then I read the comments from all these experienced fencers and kendokas and now I know what to look for and therefore appreciate this video even more!!! Love it!
Very slick job done here. I have some familiarity with kendo and have fenced off-and-on for about 10 years, along with some other things over time. Analyzing the back-and-forth, seeing the tempo and bladework, footwork of course, distance control, offsets of gear and inherent 'rules' for each art, and how they juggle all that and think through it, their actions, the fact that both guys are clearly capable and competant and know what their doing. Man, this is just such a solid video, and it's an onion: layers of implications and complexity to analyze. Great sportsmanship also. Well done!
the Kendoka is the captain of the national team. Calling him "good" is a severe understatement. He got 2nd in the world kendo championship in individuals and in teams. He is elite.
I don't know much about either discipline but you can really see the skill. Watching them feel each other out you can see the timing and reflexes it takes to do this.
never realized how fast and accurate the Kendo guys are, those little head taps are like lightening, and on the other side how quickly the fencers little whips become an actual strike
@@StrengthScholar0 You have a point. I was meaning though that there are 3 different fencing weapons: Epee, Foil and Saber. They have also different techniques and styles. The Saber is what can oppose the wooden blade as it has stronger blade and its style matches kendo's style. Videos are cool but nothing compares to see the sparks and smell the ozone when hit in the helmet with a sabre.
i didn't hear the Wilhelm scream once... although my terrible internet only let me load 1 minute of the video and i been here for 5+ minutes. i heard and electric ping sound when someone got hit. no where close to the Wilhelm scream.
fior di battaglia is more knight style fighting I recommend you look it up it’s amazing Fencing is more musketeer style fighting you would carry a gun or guns on you as well as dagger with the sword
Always awesome to see different styles of martial arts going head to head, seeing the differences and learning from one another on how to deal with different styles, and potentially learn new things to incorporate into one's own style and thought process is always very cool.
Martial arts mixing is always fun. I remember when a boxer came to our Taekwondo club. Was not used to taking so many punches from the top, but he also wasn't used to having to guard against or dodge kicks. It was quite interesting and once I figured out I could kite him it was easier. I enjoyed seeing the sword matches here! Reminds me of that time!
thing about an epee is, there is pretty much no way it can parry or meaningfully beat away a shinai. the shinai is too heavy and being held with two hands, still the epee should have had significant advantage against the kendoka's hands, maybe he avoided that to avoid the issue of false positives (in epee the bell guard of the epee is grounded so if you hit it, it will not register as a hit, but the guard on the shinai would NOT be grounded, so if the fencer hit the guard of the shinai it would register a hit even though it would not be a valid target)
Fencing was the most difficult weapon practice I'd taken lessons in. The needed finesse for such little movements, similar to guitar string hand plucking of the wrist. To make such small figure 6, 9, or 8 etc and so quickly in order to repost successfully. I wasn't good at it lol. I only had left hand advantages.
This was interesting, exciting and fun to watch. Practically all of the kendo strikes were hard head shots and all of the fencers were arms and chest. I'd say they were pretty evenly matched in their respective styles. One of my favorites so far.
In kendo there are only 4 ways to strike : the head strike is the main one and three others are punishers : arm : your opponent was trying too hard to stop you to go for the head Stomach : your opponent was too slow or too predictable in his attack Throat : your opponent was going towards you while you had control of the center. In this situation the fencer only had protection for head strikes but his sword couldn't allow him to defend it the way kendokas defend themselves. In terms of ruling the fencer has a big advantages : he can strike pretty much everywhere while the kendoka is limited to the head so I find the the latter's performance to be the most impressive
Finally, good match between two different sword arts. You can see that both of them are skilled fighters. That is the way comparisons should be made on yt.
@@jovanleon7 The kendoka was lethally struck in first few rounds before he started scoring back. So yeah, kendoka wins provided they get to respawn I guess??
I would say that here is the most predictable result. Both have similar tactics, in this case neither side will have an advantage. The weapons of both opponents have extremely low weight and almost the same strike distance. The advantage of a two-handed handle cannot work if only long-range strikes are used. Under such circumstances, any duel will pose a risk to both sides, and the difference in skill is very quickly smoothed out as soon as both opponents reach a confident average level.
Quite interesting match between the two, but I think the European fencing style had some elements in his favor. Primarily the narrow arena, as well as his sword being a pure duelist tradition, while Kendo is closer linked to it's warfare origins. I would love to see the same match, but against a European bastard-sword! That opens up some new interesting ways to parry an attack, using the handguards and pummels as well. Additionally, it's closer to being a weapon of war, thus a bit less nimble and making it more similar to the kendo-type. Now I'm about to dig through this channel for more interesting matches like this!
As a total novice, I think I picked up a few things from this. 1.) Never be afraid to push your advantage, an opponent on their back foot is less stable than one standing firm. 2.) Permit your opponent to make mistakes, an enemy that leaves their guard down is easily swatted away. 3.) Keep an eye for detail, knowing when to push and when to let your opponent open themselves to counter attack is key for achieving victory. Like I said, I'm a total novice when it comes to martial arts, only took Tae Kwon Do for less than a year when I was like 4-6(so long ago that I forget how old I was at the time), so I have no idea if my speculation is accurate in any way, shape, or form.
@@fernandonoite6957 why do people get hung up on "real fights"? These are all sports: they're not representative of how fights used to be, especially fencing.
@marcelosinico but the fancing Guy had more área for target. Kendo Guy isn't attacking his forearm, neck (with trusting strike) and his dorso too... Attacks praticed on kendo that he isn't attacking maybe for lack of proper protection on fence guy. Basically fence player was able tô throw every strikes he pratice but kendo player coudn't
@@marcelosinico Also, a one handed posture can lead to a longer reach when the blade lengths are comparable and the kendoka has to limit his footwork to staying on a single line
The kendoka is limited by the ruleset, but the fencer has disadvantages as well: the foil is shorter - the stance increasing reach doesn't completely negate that because the kendoka can score points on the wrist. Also, the foil is very flexible, which means the kendoka can blow through the fencer's guard if he has to. edit: that might be an epee not a foil, but most of reasoning is the same regardless
@@ebreshea1337 but the kendoka never aimed for the wrist as the fencer didn’t have any protection there. I agree that each had advantages and disadvantages but from my POV the kendoka had more in way of disadvantages here. The only valid strike he could make was ‘men.’
@@szarekhthesilent2047 to short??? Nah it wouldn't be fair because sabre would be too fast for kendo,the reason they went for epee I'd because it's by far the slowest
While sabre is fast you can see in the video that kendo guy scored mostly via cut-over while epeeist was trying to parry or search for the blade. Sabreurs may have tendencies to parry too much in this instance...but I'm purely speculating haha. I know Szilagy would put in work here lol
@@Chilam. The speed is the same for sabre, epee and fleur. Epee is just more tiring. sabre is already at a disadvantage against fleur. We tried with training(/nonelectric) weapons (fleur and sabre and fleur vs epee), and it is VERY hard to close in.
the main issue is, the rapier is able to bend pretty well and considering this is a point based match, the kendo practitioner will have harder time parrying the rapier as it bends around the blade
This reminds me of the time I had a death match in an alley against a well versed kendo practitioner. While I was subsequently able to land the fatal thrust, it wasn't before he managed to cut off both of my arms.
Wow, This was very awesome to see different weapon practitioners to try out their skills against each other. Seldom see that Kendoka and fencer compete, east meet west martial weapon art. Thank you for bringing this remarkable scene. The blood effect when a practitioner got hit, is like you are watching an anime fighting scene. Great job for this video, bring something beyond usual.
A very interesting match. The speed and reach of that weapon for fencing is really incredible and it really shown at the beginning but the kendo technique's deadly moves are not to be under estimated considering that most points it got throughout the video was trough a strike in the head. At times even if though the fencer striked the point first, that wooden sword still strikes the head right at the next moment. The techniques of both displayed the highest level of precision given the mastery of their craft. Spectacular but brutal arts.
I found myself almost not wanting to blink, this was so good! It was interesting seeing how the differences in style and equipment didnt result in either side having a supreme advantage.
Two disadvantages for Kendo fighting with fencing: 1. Kendo shall hit to get one point with Two hands on the sword. Some would argue why Kendo keeps focus on Head-on point. When Fencing holds one hand on sword, he can stand side way and make his body target area smaller hence makes the Head-on becomes easier target. 2. Kendo will not get a point when hitting with the tip while Fencing usually get their hit-points with the tip.
It was nice to watch but I think the fencer had an advantage since he could do body , kote/hand and tsuki strikes as where the only thing the kendoka was able to go for was men because the fencer didn't have kote,tsuki guard or do on ,which made it more difficult for him. But all in all it was a good vid. 😊
People also forget most of the fencers strikes wouldn’t even be disabling and he usually gets a double hit while most of thee kendokas strikes would be lethal.
The blade control by both practioners was beautiful 😭 Not sure if it's because of the combination of Kendo and Épée, but, as HEMA practioner, I haven't seen this much focus on controling the other person's blade in either discipline. Might be because both sides were slowly feeling each other out, but I tend to notice more parries in each individual competition. Here, there was a balance between parries and (at least more visible attempts) at controling their opponents blade. I was surprised by that
I agree. The two disciplines don't mesh perfectly but it was interesting to see these teo work out how to apply their technique on the fly, in a new situation.
I would think that it'd be really difficult to get used to dealing with an opponent's weapon that's so thin and floppy and comparably hard to see when you're used to dealing with a larger, slower weapon that doesn't flex.
I thought the kendo guy would use this as an advantage and push the blade aside than snipe the much-exposed wrist but he takes the hard rout by bypassing the dangerous thrust and target the head
Very nice on both parts. However, that foil was simply too short. A real historical rapier was like twice the length of the foil. It would have been a very different fight and much more one sided I think. Simply, a rapier was specifically designed for killing unarmored men in one on one duels.
Also note there is a significant difference in weight and strength between the weapon of the kendo practitioner and that of the fencer. that difference is making it very difficult for the fencer to redirect a strike. whereas the kendo practitioner has a very easy time in defense and offence as they can power through the blade of their enemy much easier. I personally believe they should try this test with a training button tipped rapier so as to allow for more accurate weapon weight and strength allowing fir a more even bout.
Consider that the Kendoka is severly penalised by only been able to move in straight line, which make several Kendo techniques undoable. So a more balance pair of swords AND on a Kendo square ring, to be even.
A light weapon is faster, so it's not a straight disadvantage. There's always a trade-off. Note also how often the fencer uses tip flicking techniques; these would not work with a stiffer rapier.
@@eastpaw plus, it's harder to parry feints from a fencer as a Kendoka because of the weight of the sword used and the utilization of the parry technique.
@@eastpaw yes, of course. Since the fencer can't parry such heavy swords, overwhelming the fencer with brute force is generally a better strategy instead of playing safe.
Nicely done. This seemed like a real competition between skilled opponents. I like to see that the kendo fighter is wearing a proper fencing mask. It might not be standard kendo gear, but it's necessary when facing a fencing weapon to be properly safe. My only issue is that the epee fencer seemed to be attempting a lot of body hits, although it's kind of hard to see for sure. I would have been focusing heavily on attacking the wrist and hand.
Epeeist is quite good! I'm guessing he is the head coach of that gym? Watching this I have few suggestions. 1. Kendoist would be better by driving aggressive offense. Use the strength advantage to lever out the epee and physically intimidate the epeeist. 2. Epeeist can use better foot mobility for defense maybe even going off the piste. It looks like ducking would help too since I didn't see the kendoist going for the legs but epeeist are trained to go for feet
@5:10 you see perfectly why kendo versus an olympic fencing foil is a bad idea. the fencer could not exert enough pressure to move his oponents blade off line, meaning that his attack there, on the outside line was NEVER going to hit, even though the fencer's placement was perfect. the riposte from the kendo practioner was just the conclusion of the two differnt types of fencing tools meeting. absolute beautiful demonstration with each discipline showing how they are different from one another!
I’ve done saber vs HEMA long sword. It’s a similar story to what you have here, but the saber is strong enough to parry stab attempts and open up lines, while the blade weight allows the fencer to dance out of range mid swing (in many cases)
yeah, I was thinking that halfway through, it's too bendy and thin against his thicker less bendy bamboo. disproportionately so I'd say, for simulating a katana and a Rapier's physics. the should've just used a rapier, but then maybe he should be using a katana as well? then they'd need armor though.
@@stevenburton4966 a rapier versus the bamboo kendo, staff? I'm not sure of the right term. A heavier rapier would have led to a more balanced spar but Im not sure if the Olympic fencer would have been able to fence the same way with a heavier tool
@@jesush7662 Actually, I've done classical fencing style vs HEMA as well and while obviously different in specific ways, I'll keep the comparison as the next best: In most cases, the fencing footwork is more than enough to save a fencer who uses primarily defensive movement and results in excellent work in counter attacks. Initiating the engagement is far more difficult, especially when first figuring out the opponent's style
@@merciful_nacho9401 it's funny you say footwork is enough to save a fencer. I have to keep this all as a thought experiment since body type and experience will play a factor in any spar. But! Anybody that spars defensively is opening themselves up to attack, which no matter how good you are, you will have to block the attack first before you can counter. Which leads us to the same problem in this video, two handed, bamboo kendo sword versus a one handed Olympic foil. Not insurmountable but I would bet my money on the kendo practitioner, that is I had no knowledge of either fencer was going strictly off of their equipment
This was awesome. Well matched in skill level, you can see that often it's more often how good the contestants are as opposed to the style itself. It seems they all relaxed a bit more as the bouts went on and figured out how they were going to fight/strike. Great work. Mechya subarashii yo! (sorry, I don't know the Korean for that).
It seems significant that almost every point for the Kendo practitioner was to the head of his opponent and would result in fatal if not significant injury. I know some of the fencing strikes were to important veins or blood rich areas, but it seems as if regardless of scoring Kendo appears to be the far deadlier art. Happy to discuss and be proved wrong by an expert however, always keen to learn more😊
Both have their own advantages and disadvantages. If the Kendo guy was allowed to move right/left and to attack the fencing guy's hand/arm/torso, the game would be finished quickly. A real weapon and a real armour can't be like as light as in Olympic fencing games, they were made for different purposes. However, it's still fun to see this kind of games, the footwork and the control of distance/rymthm showed that both players were professional. Most of all, they were both in joy and showed sportmanship. Nice video to watch.
Facts! In olympic style competition , Epee would win but with heavy armour and much heavier real rapier a slashing weapon for sure would be the favorite. Assuming similar skill levels!
Left and right movement don't make any difference in a real bout. You're always face to face with the opponent anyways, that's why fencing is done on a strip, it's not by coincidence; FIE has tried rings for fencing and it doesn't make a difference
@@Yo-yf2ds Well say that to Spanish rapier practitioners. Side movements matter. You can control the blade and then step to the side for better leverage. The only reason that there is no side movements in modern olympic sport fencing is that those weapons are unrealistically light so the side steps would be too slow conpared to the movement of the hand, but with real weight weapons, it's different.
@@HowtoFencingbyYarikandTim The modern fencing épée comes from the smallsword, which isn't that much heavier. Smallsword weren't typically used with or against armor, so I'm not sure how they'd fair in that context. Slashing isn't effective against good armor. I guess it depends on the exact details.
@@anotherhistoryenthusiast5874 George Silver also favored side movements, as did plenty of German masters & others. I'm not sure about smallsword. A smallsword isn't that much heavier than a modern fencing épée, if any; the weight ranges overlap.
Too many of these "X vs Y" demonstrations are a skilled practitioner against a beginner. It's nice to see a demonstration where both practitioners are suitably skilled.
I don’t know much about the kendo, but the épée fencing is skilled. But I see sometimes the fencing stay stationary for the kendo to show an attack instead of moving backwards to avoid getting hit.
True, but... while some of principles would stay same, if you change epee for 1,3kg rapier and shinai for shorter, significantly heavier and differently balanced katana and change the goal from "tapping the point" to deal some serious damage (and don't die in same time), then there will be very different approach to the fight. Even tho this is interresting showcase clearly demonstrating some aspects exactly because of the reason you mentioned..
most of their vids are bad matchups
@@Tkoutlosh Realistically: if you do not practice Kendo actively, you have no frame of reference on how it feels to get hit. I’ve had two separate concussions from regular practice working with a sensei at the competitive level. Leaving my personal experience aside, one thing about the video-the kendo competitor is intentionally only striking men (mask). My guess is because he is nervous about striking off target and injuring the fencer. Feel free to watch the Korean national team practices for reference.
@@bobbyliu96 The kendo person is very strong. The reason the fencer is having trouble has to do with footwork pressure. Things might change if they weren’t fighting on the piste though.
You can clearly see at first both players are quite confused about how to defend against unfamilar attack pattern, but they gradually grasp it and incorporate to their own attack combo. True skill indeed
Jian/longsword : i have no such weakness (jk)
And this is how we go from specialized fighting styles (karate/kendo/HEMA/etc), designed to beat other specialized fighting styles, into a mixed style method (MMA). If your fighting style cannot/will not adapt, you lose. This is a wonderful example of two skilled fighters adapting and using the other's style against them. Wonderful!
@@alger8181 Sort of, but not quite. It's not so much as incorporating a new style. It's changing their technique and how they go about it. You can clearly see it's still the same patterns, but it's changed up.
Fighting really comes down to feints, and reading your opponents attacks to see if they're feinting or planning to strike. It's all really iffy to explain. If they were incorporating different techniques though, they'd have changed stances to a different sword style completely, which neither did. It's more so, they started to read each others patterns and so tried using their style in a way that can exploit the weaknesses.
True skill my ass. Neither of these guys seem to be able to read the completely predictable attacks which keep coming over and over. The fencer is gonna thrust. The kendo guy is gonna cut to the head. Both of them are too overspecialised.
@@joebloggs5318 Maybe you should watch again and actually see the feints they're performing before attacking. It's not about where they're hitting, but from which direction. Sword play isn't like the movies.
I am impressed with how fast the kendo practitioner was at parrying and countering the fencer immediately. It all happen at the blink of an eye. When the fencer weaves in feigns, you can tell they’re becoming much more successful at landing those hits. The fact that it only took a few rounds for the two combatants to figure out how to defend and attack, shows the skill of each fighter. Great job!
True...but in a real fight...how much many rounds do combatants have to adapt?
@@sulblazer lol wym “real fight?” No one is walking around with fencing sword or katana challenging others to a duel, if that’s what you’re imagining. If it’s a street fight, not only is this illegal - but it’s usually unfair. Street fights typically is a 1v2+ fight, involving cheap shots.
What we’re seeing are two martial artists showing their ability to adapt.
Yeah sure, he wouldn't be able to parry an sabre Arresto or an Arrow attack.
The fact that the Kendo practitioner managed to basically evenly match with the fencer when he was only allowed to move in one axis is damn impressive and shows training that transfers to multiple situations
As someone who has no idea about the two sports i can only see that the kendo guy is at a disadvantage since he uses swinging attacks thus he has to parry first then swing which allows the fencing guy to attack first due to the stabbing movement
I'd really like to see a kendoka vs a skilled practitioner of hema.
@@mistypeaks1375 it’s not a disadvantage, it’s just how their practice goes. you can’t say that a kickboxer has an advantage against someone doing boxing because they are using kicks and boxing isn’t, that’s not a valid reason. 🤦🏻♂️
the kendo practitioner would potentially be at a much larger disadvantage here if they had chosen a better fencing sword, but they went with a normal competition epee which is much shorter and smaller hand protection. fencing is just not well represented here. katana vs rapier is a much different situation where the rapier has significant reach advantage as well as hand and arm protection.
@@justanotherguy3417 Lol what. Having more or better tools (kicks have more reach and can hit legs, more things to keep track of etc.) is not an advantage? Aight bro. Please explain that one for my dumb self.
the blood effects for each hit mark, the ahhhs and wahhhs from each opponent, the speed and skill of this match up. so epic and legendary!! 10/10!!
🧡👌
Absolutely could not have watched this without the blood.
Some personal views from someone who practiced Kendo for eight years: modern Kendo is mostly based on one school of Kendo, with a heavy emphasis on targeting the head, which may not be the most efficient way of combat. I guess in this match we are basically seeing thrusts of a slightly longer lighter weapon vs. cut from above from a heavier weapon. The Kendo's parry with its tip when the fencer is half committed might be the only effective counter here. The fencer cannot effectively parry in this match because of the weight difference. It will be nicer if we can allow more side steps in this match (I guess it will bring more skills out). Again this is amazing and thank you for bringing this to everyone.
I agree, I am not experienced in Kendo, but allowing the Kendo user an circular area where he can change angles of approach would change the dynamic a lot. He seems slightly disadvantaged by not being able to side step. At the same time the fencer will have never trained under those conditions so maybe this was the best way to have a more competitive scenario. Also those metal strips aren't exactly pleasant to shuffle barefoot on.
I appreciate your perspective, but this is somewhat inaccurate. Modern Kendo curriculum is an amalgamation of the most popular koryu at the time of the system’s inception. The reason for pressuring the face (men) comes from the understanding taken from lived experience from the original Dai Nippon Butokukai, with the specific idea that Kendo should be taught to both police and the military.
Pressuring the face (men) is mentioned directly in Go Rin No Sho. It both causes natural reactions in the opponent, precipitating gaps in their defense and setting up separate lines of attack in the event of closure.
I can’t underscore enough how personal skill represents the most significant difference in any contest. Just because this epeeist chooses not to try a technique does not mean it cannot be done.
@@michaellindsay5705 just to clarify, you’re saying that it is inaccurate to say Kendo is disadvantaged by being able to circle his opponent because modern kendo is practiced more head on?
@@arkifane I’m referencing the point about targeting the head. There’s plenty of evidence (not only literature) to support it. In regards to “head on,” I’m not sure what you’re referring to. The shiai-jo in Kendo is a square-many matched begin with circling right or left to create an opening. There’s no rule in Kendo that says we have to attack straight on. In the case of this video, while fighting on the piste may be a little uncomfortable, I can’t see it being a tremendous disadvantage. I thought it might be the first time I saw the match, but it’s clearly not significant by the last point.
@@michaellindsay5705 oh my bad, I got the UA-cam notification of your comment and thought it was directly responding to what I wrote. I see now you were addressing the parent comment. Sorry for the confusion.
the kendoka is at a bit of a disadvantage since they’re competing in a piste and he is limited to forward and back movements where as normally in kendo you compete in a circle and can move side to side also, but this is quite good.
Maybe we’ll get a rematch in an open arena? That’d be neat
He honestly did great for his disadvantages he also wasn't aiming for any other part of the body except for the top of the helmet.
They should have done this in a freestyle full contact scenario with both of them using blunted metal weapons. All of the techniques and none of the sport rules. That would be very interesting.
it won’t make a difference
They just gotta adapt
Dude the kendoka is so skilled. I honestly expected the fencer to have a huge advantage but the kendoka delivered some heavy counterattacks. Quality duels. Absolutely loved it
That Kendoka won 2nd place in the most recent World Kendo Championship in 2018, so he is indeed very skilled.
The kendoka worked out that since the fencer has the advantage of speed + reach with his lunge, his best approach was to move in close enough so that when the fencer makes his attack, the kendoka sweeps the blow aside so it misses and then counter-attacks while the fencer is still committed to the lunge and can't dodge. The advantage still lies slightly with the fencer because feints or an early attack means the kendoka may not be able to react in time to avoid the blow, but the fact that the scores were as close as they were really speaks volumes about the kendoka's skill, yeah. :)
@Professor Frog In terms of weight, the epee's actually heavier. It's 550g for the shinai vs. 770 g for the epee.
It's the two handed grip giving better leverage that makes the shinai more difficult to knock aside.
@@SirConto szpada jest bardziej giętka niż shinai z tego wynika przewaga shinai. Z rapierem katana nie miala by wiekszych szans.
Homie was going for all headshots too the entire time lol.
it's quite interesting to see how 2 different dueling styles match against eachother. different styles, different weapons, even different scoring systems by the looks of things. both competators seem to be a little unsure to begin with, facing against unfamiliar weapons, yet as the bout continues you can see them gaining an understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of the other's weapon and style and using that knowledge to the full.
excellent, truly excellent.
Rapiers obviously dominate, bro i wish more people were into them as they were with katanas. Custom Rapiers would be nice
Both artists are amazing. The Kendoka seemed to have been limited in that he didn’t go for any wrist or throat shots. Both are so exciting to watch!
I have done both Kendo and Fencing and this video thrilled me. The epee fencer had more target area (anywhere on the body) than the kendoka. (Therefore the kendoka was wearing an extra fencing vest over his bogu.) It took a few bouts for each of the players to figure out how to defend areas and strikes they wouldn't normally need to in their own sport, but they really started figuring it out. Would be fun to see this played in a kendo ring, and not tied to a straight line like the piste. Fascinating to watch their progress. Thank you for whoever made this and shared it.
In Kendo, the kendoka doesn't always fight in a forward motion. Are there not circular motions around the opponent as well or is competition always in a forward motion?
@@jameslucas5590 The "ring" in which you fight is square and you are free to wander around it in Kendo. In fencing you are stuck in the narrow "lane" (the piste). So the kendoka in this bout was restricted from attacking in a manner he would be more used to by having to stay on the fencing piste.
Yeah I wouldn't have expected epee vs kendo to be nearly as interesting as it turned out to be. I was pleasantly surprised. The epee made use of his bell guard to compensate for the lighter weapon that I found really interesting.
You are obviously far more qualified to speak here than I am (having zero kendo experience coupled with zero fencing experience :p). Something that I noticed is that this reminded me of point-sparring vs Sanshou. It seems that this was focused around a touch = point system which I believe would favor the epee. It seems that the kendo practitioner scores far more hits that I would view as decisive while the fencer gets far more points which are "technical" but lack power.
All in all I enjoy this concept but I feel (again as a total outsider) that the rules may be biased. Perhaps a better insight would come from the fencer using something like a saber & rules focusing on lethal hits vs simple touches.
You raise a great point in regards to linearity. Allowing a full circle would change the game and while it may throw the fencer off for a bit I'd love to see how this leads to an evolution of the sport.
@@danielmegibben1659 one of the challenegs with armed combat sports is how to tell if something is a decisive hit or not. What could just be a tiny slice to someone's arm could have chopped their hand off. A gentle thrust to the chest could have punctured a lung. In Olympic style fencing, the tip of weapon has a pressure plate, and you don't score a point unless you hit your opponent with a certain amount of force (I believe it's 7 newton's, but I haven't fenced in a long time). There's also target area restrictions depending on the sport. Sabre is upper body, foil is torso, and epee is the whole body. There is a historical reason for the point system, since duels were often fought just to first blood, not always to the death.
There has been a lot of interest in more realistic rule sets lately though. The sport M1 is fought in full plate armor, and interest in HEMA (historical European martial arts) is growing too (at this point though, it's probably just HMA. Plenty of those guys study kendo and Asian martial arts too)
Still, the challenge with armed sports is a decisive blow with a blade means your opponent is gravely injured. Realistic rules in unarmed sports are easier, because you just knock each other out. Replicating that with swords is a bit more difficult.
I've never participated in HEMA, but it seems the solution to this is the honor system. When combatants are sparring, they just kind of use their best judgement, and discuss whether or not a blow would have been serious.
I learned one thing from this video. If you ever sword fight against a kendoka, wear a helmet.
Wear a men ((=|=)/
The kendoka was deliberately going for the head to avoid injuring the guy though. In a more serious bout there would have been at least a few attempts at a throat strike.
True! They tend to try to knock it off.
Oberyn Martell likes this
As a practitioner of Kendo, my Sensei would always stress that "men", the (figurate) cut of the top 5cm of the head, is the only real strike, everything else is preparation. Tsuki, the throat stab, is only for the very advanced practitioners and should be used rarely and with extreme care. This Kendoka is clearly highly skilled and focus on the essence of Shinai Kendo.
I've been practicing the Japanese sword with various disciplines mainly Kendo for many years now. I like this video and I agree that it's fun going against other fighting systems. There's an organization in my country where they actually host events like these and it's fun. With my experience, fighting someone who uses Eskrima/Arnis fightning systems are one of the hardest ones to go against because their system's doctrine basically teaches you that anything you can grab is a weapon and that system has an extremely wide range of offense and defence techniques.
Great video and great editing.
When I was younger "arnis" is my sport and I agree with you on this one. ✌️😁
Anything can be a weapon as long you can wield it defensively and offensively quite well.
My country havent a real place to teach kendo or iaido, but i was began with this 10 years ago
Love seeing arnis mentioned in the wild :) great martial art
@@Nero_-mi2np you could try looking for hema
Rudo would be cracked at Arnis, I feel.
I don't know a thing about kendo, but the guy looks awesome. No unnecessary movements, no wasted energy. He just looks so efficient and composed.
As someone who was schooled in fencing from primary school, I can say that sports fencing isn't close to combat fencing and has been heavily adapted for safety reasons. As a karate practitioner as well, I'd liken it to how tournament and points karate is very different to MMA karate. You likely noticed the lack of head defence. This is a weakness introduced by the sporting varient. You'll also notice he uses an epee, combat styles often used sabers, which could use the edge. I think a saber style would have been better here, especially as it might have allowed horizontal combat. Allowing both combatants to better explore their abilities.
I'm a former karate point fighting champion and it was lame and dangerously far from reality. I'm better protected and happier now training boxing and bjj with 1/6 the training time.
"You'll also notice he uses an epee, combat styles often used sabers, which could use the edge. I think a saber style would have been better here, especially as it might have allowed horizontal combat. Allowing both combatants to better explore their abilities." 100% agreed, would have made things much more interesting.
@@Quoxozist plus it was two handed vs one handed, if the katana had been up against a two handed great sword it would have gone differently. And both weapons work better with more a wider area than a fencing lane.
As a former competitive 3-weapon fencer but predominantly a saber fencer, I'm going to disagree. Epee is a much better choice for cross-discipline combat because it dispenses with Right-of-Way.
It's instructive because the epeeist has little head defense, loses half the body as target (I assume everything below the waist is off-target because Kendo is restricted to 4 target areas; head, throat, left, and right) and has a tasty target area with no hand guard. Against the heavier shinai(?), pressures might work but binds would not which makes the body and head targets fraught with risk.
I was impressed by the kendoist's ability to protect his hands and his grace in gliding on attack (many competitive epeeists bounce too much and this slows their attack). He maintained a solid command of distance though partly I think this epeeist's style played into it; I've faced many epeeists who prefer to give ground to their 2-meter line.
Yes. Fencing “sword” here also lacks rigidity and in multiple situations it was impossible for the fencer to defend from boken, it has crushed through the defence
Love how natural, new and exciting this cross-duel be like,. Not to mention those fancy Hollywood swordfights. Imma take note for my concept art portfolio
I was just going to comment that. Choreographed stylized fights are cool and all, but watching that duel was almost anxiety-enducing. Even small movements have so much weight and meaning.
it is sport vs sport. give them free range and real heavy weapons, and u will see how everthing changes.
what do you mean by "hollywood" sword fingting ? these aint a real swordfighting either , fencing and kendo are a pure sport , they made it specially to get point and contested it , samurai uses kenjutsu , and european (based on fencing) use variety of techniques depend ot what you use (sabre/rapier) and when to use it , (duel or in the middle of war chaos)
@@ruhzzyy i mean i don't like those over the top hollywood acrobatic swordfightings., and although this is a cross-duel/cross-sport. what i mean to say is although it's a sport, the idea of two different techniques clashing while both utilizing distance, timing and defense to name a few is awesome,.
@@patpatpatzi7089 i know what you're saying but sometimes they actually do , when it comes to sword fighting, we are talking about a very quick fight , that lasts around 3-6 minutes , every hit could be fatal, they can die/disabled from 1 lethal hit , even a kenjutsu master miyamoto mushashi , does a jump to avoid his enemy attack , throw a sand to enemy eyes, rocks, some even use kunai / throwing star in a middle of duel ,sword fighting are just over romanticize story because back in the middle age europe , it was a symbol of wealth , while in japan it merely a soldier weapon, samurai just like any other middle age military , mostly use spear and bow to fight a war , real sword fight are short, cruel , and mean.
Say what you will about Olympic fencing, it certainly gives you a sense of timing and range.
That's true! Bruce Lee liked fencing a lot and incorporated fencing footwork in his Jeet Kune Do.
Facts! But I guess All combative sports are good for that.
like all sword fights should
@@homelessman3483 I think JKD is great, it's basically MMA with self-defense focus, while MMA is more competitive and sport oriented.
I practiced JKD for two years with a great teacher in Taiwan, he was competing in Muay-Thai as well.
I think JKD is good but most of schools are shit! There's nothing too special about it either.
It can be awesome or pure shit I suppose, almost no quality control.
Getting stabbed with a giant needle probably sucks.
5:11 That double redirect/block to counter was amazing
That move was sweet oml
Yes yes
right?!!! Felt like a video game finishing move hahaha
Absolutely loved this. Épee was definitely the right choice here, but it would be interesting to see how a foil or saber fencer would have done. I don't think it's feasible because of how right-of-way works but it would have been interesting because, from what I've seen, those two fencing styles train for much more explosive movement than any other combat sport.
foil is a really light sword even lighter than epee so it would be even harder to block so it wouldnt be fair.
@@ozanozenir2503 Well, both weapons have entirely different styles so it's not just the weapon.
@@sharkastic2633 its not about the style its about the weight and the shape
@@ozanozenir2503 If it is about weight and shape, an epee is getting parried just as easily as the other two. This makes foil and saber faster with no downside of easier parries. The style does actually matter because of target area and right of way. There's no significant shape difference between the three weapons either.
@@sharkastic2633 no you dont get it. İ said the foil is much lighter and thiner than epee so it will be so hard to block the kendo strikes. Even the epee in this video shows how difficult it was to block and foil is even thiner. Just think about it. İts like trying to block a punch with a paper. Foil can attack pretty much the same way with epee. However defence will be even harder than epee.
I really appreciate the editing of this video. The slow motions of fast attacks, repeated shots from different angles, as well as the blood effects showing the hits, all make this for an enjoyable watch that is easy to follow. Thanks!
This looks like a really fun club and I like the attempts to compare and contrast different sword styles. I would have preferred them having more mobility options other than the limited fencing track. Being able to move and circle one another would allow for the exploitation of better angles, still it looks like a good time.
I agree with you. A wider fighting area would have been more interesting.
It’s not as obvious as it seems. My fencing instructor in Italy also was a kendoka and when I was younger I asked this very same question “why fencers only go in a linear fashion’ as opposed to kendo or other fencing systems. His answer was quite definitive and explains why even if the strip is 1.5 to 2 metres wide a top level fencer will rarely use even a fraction of its lateral space. The reason was that the blades are 500g(foil) to 750g (epee) and lightness of the sword coupled with the acceleration of the hand and the lunge makes sidestepping or dodging an attack a low percentage strategy. In short the blade can accelerate horizontally quicker than you can displace your body sideways. This also explains why theres very little attempt to dodge a blade in high level fencing. If you try and circle with your feet to find a better angle all the opponent has to do to cover that angle is to track you with an angulation of the wrist. Its oddly enough the one error that we punish beginners with. Whenever they waste time finding a better angle you punish them with a counterattack on preparation. After a while they ‘get it’ and see circling has diminishing returns. Back in the 2000’s we didn’t have wireless equipment so it was hard to know if he was right. We do now and we can move round and experiment at will, and the result is exactly the same: the fencer who circles gives away time and distance to the fencer who sticks to a straight line and gets countered. BUT...and this is a big BUT. The heavier a sword gets to 1kg the less this rule applied because the hand cannot accelerate or change direction as easily if it is weighted. If fencing with rapiers longswords or heavier sabres circling becomes a real possibility because opponents cant take advantage of the sidestep. In short forcing an opponent to fence in a straight line is a product of the advantage the fencing sword gets by giving up robust mass and its ability to cut.
@@inthedenoftigers5702 thanks for your explanation that reveals the difference between foil usage vs authentic weapons. While I like fencing and kendo, I still prefer the martial applications of kenjutsu and HEMA respectively. Sometimes the sporting equipment places too many restrictions to capabilities and strategies. Thanks again for the explanation.
@@torstenscott7571 i think the problem lies in that when people do HEMA longsword they don’t see that what applies for a longsword doesn’t apply for a 18th century smallsword or a 19th century epee (and a sport epee is functionally IDENTICAL to a duelling epee in weight and handling). Its only until you do fencing with lighter duelling weapons that you realise that lateral movement gives very little benefit with weapons that light. People died in duels making that mistake. Conversely sport fencers who move to HEMA rapiers fight in a linear fashion because the weapons are similar, and eventually realise that circling is a valid tactic, because rapiers though similar to smallswords are so much heavier and have different properties.
@@inthedenoftigers5702 When I refer to HEMA, I am not limiting it to longsword practices, but the sabre and rapier treatises as well. In the case of foil fencing, I would see it as supplemental to the authentic combative forms of rapier and smallsword.
Damnn. EVERY move is calculated and controlled. No loose movements. Efficient and focused athletes/fighters. Amazing. Makes me want to learn.
That's what I like about watching martial arts and those trained with certain weapon styles at a high level. It's so impressive it gets you pumped up to wanna know how
Ahhh me too!! Looking up places to go 🤣
Impressive work by the kendo practitioner, all things considered. closing the distance on a fencer with a mid range slashing blade feels like an impossible task without tremendous skill and reflexes.
Epee isn't a slashing weapon. It requires a stab to get the point
@@tylerm.8684 You misunderstand. I was referring to the kendo practitioner's shinai.
@@pipedreamer9781 oh, my bad
That was very interesting. I felt like a surprising amount of the losses from the epee were when he attempted a standard party and the heavier weapon blew through it. Great adaptation from both sides to work around the differences.
Yeah lol, 8 years of fencing here, most people don't realize how light the blade actually is. A light tap can send it pretty far. Must be hard to adapt to something you actually need to push away
In terms of weight, the epee (which should weigh about 770g) is actually heavier than the bamboo shinai (which is about 550g). What makes the shinai's strikes more powerful is the two handed grip.
This is a very entertaining video and an invaluable study for the sword enthusiast youtubers. You both are fun to watch.
This was awesome. Really would love to see a Saber fencer next time as well. Great match all around, wonderful technique from both of them
Yes, and you can give the Kendoka a Zigi Forge blunt katana yo fight with instead of shinai. I’d like to see that, anyway.
I was thinking they should be using a saber and a blunt katana for this, and their movement should be unrestricted, or at least be given a ring
@@jonnylawless6797 agreed. I want to see sword fighting, not watered down sport paddy cakes with tons of narrowly defined rules.
Yeah, especially since they're not even playing by the same rules. They were both massively disadvantaged and hamstrung by the fact that the other guy was allowed to do things they couldn't do.
I have long been puzzled over what a Kendo vs. Épée match would do.
I’m a former épée fencer but my knowledge of kendo is limited to watching the famous film Samurai (I = Musashi Miyamoto, 1954; II = Duel at Ichijoji Temple, 1955; III = Duel at Ganryu Island, 1956) starring Toshirô Mifune. Actually, what I watched in 1970 was a condensed version of the trilogy (since these three films total more than five hours); It was very interesting and left a lasting memory.
From this, my impression of kendo was that - after a period of intense observation - the decisive action would take place in an instant attack, with parry or opposition and decisive blow.
It turns out that épée fencing has followed over the last fifty years an evolution bringing it closer to kendo. Preparation is paramount, attacks are now often simultaneous, and one single thrust is now made with, in many cases, a simple opposition of blade. Thus modern (2021) épée fencing - with its emphasis on distance, speed, and the timing of one decisive thrust - has acquired a kinship with kendo which was not obvious fifty years ago!
___ .
i don't know how much "fencing" type art there is but for the art of the nihonto ( japanese sword) there is many and not all use the shinai ( bamboo sword) that was not for exemple what i used in iaido but one thing disturb me is that they was fighting in a "line" and that's not the type of fighting area a nihonto user use, so i think they was a tiny bit advantage for the fencer because the " advantage" of the shinai bein heavyer is downed by the light weight of the fencer sword that give him more speed!
vs saber would nice too see too
@@Elios0000 yeah
@@thaeros good point
@@Elios0000 nice pfp
I think a more appropriate duel would be a match up between kendo and European saber.
Don't think that will happen any time soon. Kendoka in these type of mix weapon fights usually don't want to use protection gears from different arts, and their gears won't be enough to protect the user from a saber blow. Sabres are heavy hitter, even the practice version made of plastic or blunt steel can still hit like a brick and it hurts like hell even when wearing HEMA gears, unless you're usimg SPES gloves
I don't think I'd want to see that match up unless you mean olympic saber
Mainly because it'd match up a two handed shinai against a heavier one handed saber. The saberist would be at a huge disadvantage
@@fencerguy279 remember that time epee was almost tossed out of the olympics because both participants refused to risk a point?
@@jaketheasianguy3307 Singlestick would work pretty well imo
At first, I thought that the fencer was more practical and efficient but then I read the comments from all these experienced fencers and kendokas and now I know what to look for and therefore appreciate this video even more!!! Love it!
The kendoka actually beat parried the fencer!!! And that's a fencing technique!
Very slick job done here. I have some familiarity with kendo and have fenced off-and-on for about 10 years, along with some other things over time. Analyzing the back-and-forth, seeing the tempo and bladework, footwork of course, distance control, offsets of gear and inherent 'rules' for each art, and how they juggle all that and think through it, their actions, the fact that both guys are clearly capable and competant and know what their doing. Man, this is just such a solid video, and it's an onion: layers of implications and complexity to analyze. Great sportsmanship also. Well done!
the Kendoka is the captain of the national team. Calling him "good" is a severe understatement. He got 2nd in the world kendo championship in individuals and in teams. He is elite.
@@Sapreme i could tell he is a master: his footwork and absolute focus on the "men" don't lie. What is his name, please?
@@musamusashi Jo Jinyong of the korean national team. According to the description at least.
@@MercuryA2000 thanks, i've seen it in the description myself, after posting the question 😊
problem is, one art is being completely hindered by the others rule, allow the samurai to move around and the match would be way more interesting.
I love this channel, people who are actually good testing themselves and being respectful. Great work.
I don't know much about either discipline but you can really see the skill. Watching them feel each other out you can see the timing and reflexes it takes to do this.
never realized how fast and accurate the Kendo guys are, those little head taps are like lightening, and on the other side how quickly the fencers little whips become an actual strike
Fencing: I just want to touch you
Kendo: I just want to kill you.
Thats basically all the comparison here.
Super cool. It would be interesting to see Saber vs Kendo, as Saber is more aggressive style.
The saber had to be aggressive because he was completely incapable of parrying or blocking the larger wooden blade.
@@StrengthScholar0 You have a point. I was meaning though that there are 3 different fencing weapons: Epee, Foil and Saber. They have also different techniques and styles. The Saber is what can oppose the wooden blade as it has stronger blade and its style matches kendo's style. Videos are cool but nothing compares to see the sparks and smell the ozone when hit in the helmet with a sabre.
I like how they implemented the Wilhelm scream every time someone got hit.
i didn't hear the Wilhelm scream once... although my terrible internet only let me load 1 minute of the video and i been here for 5+ minutes.
i heard and electric ping sound when someone got hit. no where close to the Wilhelm scream.
騎士と武士のぶつかり合い、
めちゃくちゃカッコ良かったです。
武士道・騎士道、
どちらもめちゃくちゃリスペクト。😊
fior di battaglia is more knight style fighting
I recommend you look it up it’s amazing
Fencing is more musketeer style fighting
you would carry a gun or guns on you as
well as dagger with the sword
1本取られた時の「「アーーーーー」」でお二人の真剣さが伝わってきます
안녕?
Always awesome to see different styles of martial arts going head to head, seeing the differences and learning from one another on how to deal with different styles, and potentially learn new things to incorporate into one's own style and thought process is always very cool.
The music, the pros dueling and the editing. Wow this was amazing!
Martial arts mixing is always fun. I remember when a boxer came to our Taekwondo club. Was not used to taking so many punches from the top, but he also wasn't used to having to guard against or dodge kicks. It was quite interesting and once I figured out I could kite him it was easier. I enjoyed seeing the sword matches here! Reminds me of that time!
This is aweseome. :D As a fencer, I think it's so interesting, how the Kendo fighter parries and hits on the head!
Fencing: Scratch, small hole.
Kendo: Deep cuts, big holes+ dismemberment.
thing about an epee is, there is pretty much no way it can parry or meaningfully beat away a shinai. the shinai is too heavy and being held with two hands, still the epee should have had significant advantage against the kendoka's hands, maybe he avoided that to avoid the issue of false positives (in epee the bell guard of the epee is grounded so if you hit it, it will not register as a hit, but the guard on the shinai would NOT be grounded, so if the fencer hit the guard of the shinai it would register a hit even though it would not be a valid target)
That was an absolutely incredible match. It was fantastic getting to see the delicate strategies playing out against different weapons
Fencing was the most difficult weapon practice I'd taken lessons in. The needed finesse for such little movements, similar to guitar string hand plucking of the wrist. To make such small figure 6, 9, or 8 etc and so quickly in order to repost successfully.
I wasn't good at it lol. I only had left hand advantages.
Impressive :) Thank you for the demonstration, they are both very fast and skilled.
Indeed, Gotta say Kendo fencer had a solid parry reposte to the head.
동아시아vs서유럽 세계의 끝과 끝, 세계에서 가장 문명화된 지역끼리의 대결… 가슴이 웅장해진다
Kendo looks super cool
どっちも有利不利あるから面白くて見応えある
This was interesting, exciting and fun to watch. Practically all of the kendo strikes were hard head shots and all of the fencers were arms and chest. I'd say they were pretty evenly matched in their respective styles. One of my favorites so far.
In kendo there are only 4 ways to strike : the head strike is the main one and three others are punishers :
arm : your opponent was trying too hard to stop you to go for the head
Stomach : your opponent was too slow or too predictable in his attack
Throat : your opponent was going towards you while you had control of the center.
In this situation the fencer only had protection for head strikes but his sword couldn't allow him to defend it the way kendokas defend themselves. In terms of ruling the fencer has a big advantages : he can strike pretty much everywhere while the kendoka is limited to the head so I find the the latter's performance to be the most impressive
@@underblader9675 Thanks for the insight. 👍🏽
Finally, good match between two different sword arts. You can see that both of them are skilled fighters. That is the way comparisons should be made on yt.
Пускай с полновесным мечем выйдет , а не с этой палкой )
Note to self: When confronted by a Kendoka, have a hard helmet on your head
It is amazing to see just how evenly matched these two styles truly are. This was so much fun to watch.
Evenly matched? Kendoka won by a lot
@@jovanleon7 kendo’s sword is way lighter then the fencers
@@jasonwilliams9803 uh.. No
@@jovanleon7 oh ok
@@jovanleon7
The kendoka was lethally struck in first few rounds before he started scoring back.
So yeah, kendoka wins provided they get to respawn I guess??
フェンシングが圧倒的有利かと思いきや剣道も引けを取らない、、すごい
I would say that here is the most predictable result. Both have similar tactics, in this case neither side will have an advantage.
The weapons of both opponents have extremely low weight and almost the same strike distance. The advantage of a two-handed handle cannot work if only long-range strikes are used.
Under such circumstances, any duel will pose a risk to both sides, and the difference in skill is very quickly smoothed out as soon as both opponents reach a confident average level.
Quite interesting match between the two, but I think the European fencing style had some elements in his favor. Primarily the narrow arena, as well as his sword being a pure duelist tradition, while Kendo is closer linked to it's warfare origins. I would love to see the same match, but against a European bastard-sword! That opens up some new interesting ways to parry an attack, using the handguards and pummels as well.
Additionally, it's closer to being a weapon of war, thus a bit less nimble and making it more similar to the kendo-type.
Now I'm about to dig through this channel for more interesting matches like this!
As a total novice, I think I picked up a few things from this.
1.) Never be afraid to push your advantage, an opponent on their back foot is less stable than one standing firm.
2.) Permit your opponent to make mistakes, an enemy that leaves their guard down is easily swatted away.
3.) Keep an eye for detail, knowing when to push and when to let your opponent open themselves to counter attack is key for achieving victory.
Like I said, I'm a total novice when it comes to martial arts, only took Tae Kwon Do for less than a year when I was like 4-6(so long ago that I forget how old I was at the time), so I have no idea if my speculation is accurate in any way, shape, or form.
true swordsmanship is superior to Kendo very fast slow kendo
@@fernandonoite6957 what in the hell are you talking about, and what does any of that have to do with anything I said in the first place?
@@SyniStar616 Which is better Kendo or fencing in a real fight and which one would survive?
@@fernandonoite6957 I don't know, nor did I claim to know at any point in my original comment.
@@fernandonoite6957 why do people get hung up on "real fights"? These are all sports: they're not representative of how fights used to be, especially fencing.
The kendo player is amazing. Imo he is at a disadvantage in this match up but he masterfully engages the whole time.
I think it was the fencing guy who was in disadvantage. He could only trust and never slash.
@marcelosinico but the fancing Guy had more área for target. Kendo Guy isn't attacking his forearm, neck (with trusting strike) and his dorso too... Attacks praticed on kendo that he isn't attacking maybe for lack of proper protection on fence guy. Basically fence player was able tô throw every strikes he pratice but kendo player coudn't
@@marcelosinico Also, a one handed posture can lead to a longer reach when the blade lengths are comparable and the kendoka has to limit his footwork to staying on a single line
The kendoka is limited by the ruleset, but the fencer has disadvantages as well: the foil is shorter - the stance increasing reach doesn't completely negate that because the kendoka can score points on the wrist. Also, the foil is very flexible, which means the kendoka can blow through the fencer's guard if he has to.
edit: that might be an epee not a foil, but most of reasoning is the same regardless
@@ebreshea1337 but the kendoka never aimed for the wrist as the fencer didn’t have any protection there. I agree that each had advantages and disadvantages but from my POV the kendoka had more in way of disadvantages here. The only valid strike he could make was ‘men.’
Excellent!
Do saber vs kendo !
Saber is too short.
@@szarekhthesilent2047 to short??? Nah it wouldn't be fair because sabre would be too fast for kendo,the reason they went for epee I'd because it's by far the slowest
While sabre is fast you can see in the video that kendo guy scored mostly via cut-over while epeeist was trying to parry or search for the blade. Sabreurs may have tendencies to parry too much in this instance...but I'm purely speculating haha. I know Szilagy would put in work here lol
@@HowtoFencingbyYarikandTim hahaha, or 6'4 Oh
@@Chilam. The speed is the same for sabre, epee and fleur. Epee is just more tiring. sabre is already at a disadvantage against fleur. We tried with training(/nonelectric) weapons (fleur and sabre and fleur vs epee), and it is VERY hard to close in.
Muy buen nivel, excelente demostración. Ambos esgrimistas muy técnicos. Dignos guerreros!!!
もし真剣でやり合うとしたら、やっぱり日本刀が有利かなぁ…
技量が同じくらいの場合は無傷とはいかないだろうけど、やっぱり武器の殺傷力が違い過ぎる。
神道無念流など、流派によっては細剣を叩き折った後で斬ることも可能かもしれない。
Bruh is biased😂😂
the main issue is, the rapier is able to bend pretty well and considering this is a point based match, the kendo practitioner will have harder time parrying the rapier as it bends around the blade
Kendo guy is really really good.
he's the captain of the korea national team and 2nd best in the world, so yeah lol
This reminds me of the time I had a death match in an alley against a well versed kendo practitioner. While I was subsequently able to land the fatal thrust, it wasn't before he managed to cut off both of my arms.
haha
"It's just a flesh wound".
Pulling our legs here bit, eh? 🙃
The form in these frames are amazing. Fencing 1:26 Kendo 2:46.
Wow, This was very awesome to see different weapon practitioners to try out their skills against each other. Seldom see that Kendoka and fencer compete, east meet west martial weapon art. Thank you for bringing this remarkable scene. The blood effect when a practitioner got hit, is like you are watching an anime fighting scene. Great job for this video, bring something beyond usual.
将棋vsチェスみたいな事やってんな……
Both are great skills to learn, and the integrity these guys showed was awesome
Ok but why is it actually somewhat balanced, I was surprised
Both are skilled
It’s amazing how quickly the kendo practitioner closes distance. Good stuff!
A very interesting match. The speed and reach of that weapon for fencing is really incredible and it really shown at the beginning but the kendo technique's deadly moves are not to be under estimated considering that most points it got throughout the video was trough a strike in the head. At times even if though the fencer striked the point first, that wooden sword still strikes the head right at the next moment. The techniques of both displayed the highest level of precision given the mastery of their craft. Spectacular but brutal arts.
Liverpool FC badge on the fencers mask 😂
This was really interesting. Looked like a lot of fun.
I found myself almost not wanting to blink, this was so good! It was interesting seeing how the differences in style and equipment didnt result in either side having a supreme advantage.
Two disadvantages for Kendo fighting with fencing: 1. Kendo shall hit to get one point with Two hands on the sword. Some would argue why Kendo keeps focus on Head-on point. When Fencing holds one hand on sword, he can stand side way and make his body target area smaller hence makes the Head-on becomes easier target. 2. Kendo will not get a point when hitting with the tip while Fencing usually get their hit-points with the tip.
Just to add, Fence swords are lighter and fast to swing
It was nice to watch but I think the fencer had an advantage since he could do body , kote/hand and tsuki strikes as where the only thing the kendoka was able to go for was men because the fencer didn't have kote,tsuki guard or do on ,which made it more difficult for him.
But all in all it was a good vid. 😊
People also forget most of the fencers strikes wouldn’t even be disabling and he usually gets a double hit while most of thee kendokas strikes would be lethal.
The blade control by both practioners was beautiful 😭 Not sure if it's because of the combination of Kendo and Épée, but, as HEMA practioner, I haven't seen this much focus on controling the other person's blade in either discipline.
Might be because both sides were slowly feeling each other out, but I tend to notice more parries in each individual competition. Here, there was a balance between parries and (at least more visible attempts) at controling their opponents blade. I was surprised by that
펜싱 쪽이 에페 검을 사용하니까 검도 쪽도 펜서 쪽도 둘 다 충분히 할 수 있는 방어를 제대로 못 보여주는게 너무 아쉽네요
플뢰레 잘 하시는 분 불러다가 스몰소드 쥐어주면 정말 볼 만한 시합이 나올 것 같습니다
I agree. The two disciplines don't mesh perfectly but it was interesting to see these teo work out how to apply their technique on the fly, in a new situation.
I would think that it'd be really difficult to get used to dealing with an opponent's weapon that's so thin and floppy and comparably hard to see when you're used to dealing with a larger, slower weapon that doesn't flex.
I thought the kendo guy would use this as an advantage and push the blade aside than snipe the much-exposed wrist
but he takes the hard rout by bypassing the dangerous thrust and target the head
shinai 500g the epee is 50% heavier
Very nice on both parts. However, that foil was simply too short. A real historical rapier was like twice the length of the foil. It would have been a very different fight and much more one sided I think. Simply, a rapier was specifically designed for killing unarmored men in one on one duels.
I dislike the "blood" effekts, because it makes it hard to see whats going on. But maybe iam just old and slow...
Also note there is a significant difference in weight and strength between the weapon of the kendo practitioner and that of the fencer. that difference is making it very difficult for the fencer to redirect a strike. whereas the kendo practitioner has a very easy time in defense and offence as they can power through the blade of their enemy much easier. I personally believe they should try this test with a training button tipped rapier so as to allow for more accurate weapon weight and strength allowing fir a more even bout.
Consider that the Kendoka is severly penalised by only been able to move in straight line, which make several Kendo techniques undoable. So a more balance pair of swords AND on a Kendo square ring, to be even.
A light weapon is faster, so it's not a straight disadvantage. There's always a trade-off.
Note also how often the fencer uses tip flicking techniques; these would not work with a stiffer rapier.
@@eastpaw plus, it's harder to parry feints from a fencer as a Kendoka because of the weight of the sword used and the utilization of the parry technique.
@@luckyalvin3947 indeed. The person with the heavier weapon probably is better served being on the offence, generally speaking.
@@eastpaw yes, of course. Since the fencer can't parry such heavy swords, overwhelming the fencer with brute force is generally a better strategy instead of playing safe.
Nicely done. This seemed like a real competition between skilled opponents. I like to see that the kendo fighter is wearing a proper fencing mask. It might not be standard kendo gear, but it's necessary when facing a fencing weapon to be properly safe. My only issue is that the epee fencer seemed to be attempting a lot of body hits, although it's kind of hard to see for sure. I would have been focusing heavily on attacking the wrist and hand.
Epeeist is quite good! I'm guessing he is the head coach of that gym?
Watching this I have few suggestions. 1. Kendoist would be better by driving aggressive offense. Use the strength advantage to lever out the epee and physically intimidate the epeeist. 2. Epeeist can use better foot mobility for defense maybe even going off the piste. It looks like ducking would help too since I didn't see the kendoist going for the legs but epeeist are trained to go for feet
epeeist is ex-korean fencing coach, and Asian game gold medalist.
The kendoka there is one of the world's best (almost certainly makes it into the world's top ten at least) - probably knows what he's doing.
this is amazing but i think it would improved without a white background, can barely see what the fencer is doing
Should have been a hema rapier fencer
As someone who’s Foil and Sabre teacher also taught Kendo… this is awesome
@5:10 you see perfectly why kendo versus an olympic fencing foil is a bad idea. the fencer could not exert enough pressure to move his oponents blade off line, meaning that his attack there, on the outside line was NEVER going to hit, even though the fencer's placement was perfect. the riposte from the kendo practioner was just the conclusion of the two differnt types of fencing tools meeting.
absolute beautiful demonstration with each discipline showing how they are different from one another!
I’ve done saber vs HEMA long sword. It’s a similar story to what you have here, but the saber is strong enough to parry stab attempts and open up lines, while the blade weight allows the fencer to dance out of range mid swing (in many cases)
yeah, I was thinking that halfway through, it's too bendy and thin against his thicker less bendy bamboo. disproportionately so I'd say, for simulating a katana and a Rapier's physics. the should've just used a rapier, but then maybe he should be using a katana as well? then they'd need armor though.
@@stevenburton4966 a rapier versus the bamboo kendo, staff? I'm not sure of the right term.
A heavier rapier would have led to a more balanced spar but Im not sure if the Olympic fencer would have been able to fence the same way with a heavier tool
@@jesush7662 Actually, I've done classical fencing style vs HEMA as well and while obviously different in specific ways, I'll keep the comparison as the next best: In most cases, the fencing footwork is more than enough to save a fencer who uses primarily defensive movement and results in excellent work in counter attacks. Initiating the engagement is far more difficult, especially when first figuring out the opponent's style
@@merciful_nacho9401 it's funny you say footwork is enough to save a fencer.
I have to keep this all as a thought experiment since body type and experience will play a factor in any spar.
But! Anybody that spars defensively is opening themselves up to attack, which no matter how good you are, you will have to block the attack first before you can counter. Which leads us to the same problem in this video, two handed, bamboo kendo sword versus a one handed Olympic foil. Not insurmountable but I would bet my money on the kendo practitioner, that is I had no knowledge of either fencer was going strictly off of their equipment
This was awesome. Well matched in skill level, you can see that often it's more often how good the contestants are as opposed to the style itself. It seems they all relaxed a bit more as the bouts went on and figured out how they were going to fight/strike.
Great work. Mechya subarashii yo! (sorry, I don't know the Korean for that).
It seems significant that almost every point for the Kendo practitioner was to the head of his opponent and would result in fatal if not significant injury.
I know some of the fencing strikes were to important veins or blood rich areas, but it seems as if regardless of scoring Kendo appears to be the far deadlier art.
Happy to discuss and be proved wrong by an expert however, always keen to learn more😊
Fencers: do nothing
Music: doom soundtrack
Ah yes. Perfect atmosphere
This is such a cool video. Love the comparison/friendly competition between the two distinctive duel styles.
I love seeing high level matches between two different arts. Makes me wonder about how each of those would do against HEMA.
They do have a video:
Longsword(Liechtenauer) vs Kendo
@@Ianmar1 Thank you good sir. I will proceed to go watch that.
@@Ben_Kimber My bad man, the guys in that video are not so high level as this.
@@Ianmar1 It was still a decent video.
Both have their own advantages and disadvantages. If the Kendo guy was allowed to move right/left and to attack the fencing guy's hand/arm/torso, the game would be finished quickly.
A real weapon and a real armour can't be like as light as in Olympic fencing games, they were made for different purposes.
However, it's still fun to see this kind of games, the footwork and the control of distance/rymthm showed that both players were professional. Most of all, they were both in joy and showed sportmanship. Nice video to watch.
Facts! In olympic style competition , Epee would win but with heavy armour and much heavier real rapier a slashing weapon for sure would be the favorite. Assuming similar skill levels!
Left and right movement don't make any difference in a real bout. You're always face to face with the opponent anyways, that's why fencing is done on a strip, it's not by coincidence; FIE has tried rings for fencing and it doesn't make a difference
@@Yo-yf2ds Well say that to Spanish rapier practitioners. Side movements matter. You can control the blade and then step to the side for better leverage. The only reason that there is no side movements in modern olympic sport fencing is that those weapons are unrealistically light so the side steps would be too slow conpared to the movement of the hand, but with real weight weapons, it's different.
@@HowtoFencingbyYarikandTim The modern fencing épée comes from the smallsword, which isn't that much heavier. Smallsword weren't typically used with or against armor, so I'm not sure how they'd fair in that context. Slashing isn't effective against good armor. I guess it depends on the exact details.
@@anotherhistoryenthusiast5874 George Silver also favored side movements, as did plenty of German masters & others. I'm not sure about smallsword. A smallsword isn't that much heavier than a modern fencing épée, if any; the weight ranges overlap.
Death sounds quickly becomes annoying: "Waaaaaaa... Waaaaa..."
The only difference in an actual fight between these two styles is that a katana would snap in two almost any kind of fencing sword easily.