I LOVE your persona. You’re an absolute gun nut, but not from the demolition ranch style. You’re a scholar of firearms, not a clickbait redneck. Your appreciation of firearms, their history, & so much more, really shines through in every video; I respect & appreciate it.
"not a clickbait redneck" Tell us how you really think. I'll never forget just into the '60s Dad took our family up on Sand Mountain (the bottom of the Appalachian mountain chain) to visit some extended relatives he was close to in his youth. Redneck didn't used to be a pejorative. To paraphrase Sigmund Freud, sometimes a redneck is just a redneck."
Imagine your surprise, in 1880, fighting an opponent who fired 80 times in a row without loading.... The cartridge may be weak, but the sheer volume of fire would be frightening
I can't imagine the report of the gun would be an intimidating boom, though. Seems like it wouldn't have been much noisier than a pellet gun, and not terrifically more powerful per shot.
A "rocket-ball firing chain-rifle" legitimately sounds like something a 9 year old would come up with if you asked them to make the coolest gun they can possibly think of.
Imagine Clint Eastwood with this weapon - " You're thinking "Did he fire 80 shots or only 70?" Now to tell you the truth, I've forgotten myself in all this excitement. "
But being as this is a guycot rocketball, the least powerful weapon in the world, and would probably sting considerably, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?"
You know, this mechanism is actually quite elegant. I can totally imagine such a thing today in .22 with some sort of transparent side panel to see how the mechanism operates and some tweaks to the reloading system, like a crank powered tool. It would be a really cool, novelty plinker to have fun with.
i think this could be used in a air rifle assembly very effectively, you could have a much larger 'charge' for each cartidge with a air chamber. & the chain would only need to be large enough to hold the slug
@@hamasmillitant1 You may be on to something. Or make it a multi barreled machine of devastation, where turning the crankshaft would prime an air piston, place the pellet in the chamber, release the piston and prime the next one as it turns! Personally I'm for the LED screen though.
I was thinking this. But, if it was firing .22, how would you eject the spent cartridges? would you need to take them all out manually while reloading?
Here in Italy, from the 1960s onwards, companies like Molgora and EDISON Giocattoli have been manufacturing cap firing toy guns that feed in exactly the same way! :D
I remember toy cap guns in the UK that would fire from a paper strip of charges(? not sure of the correct term), although rather than a chain, it was more like a belt. I seem to remember most of them feeling really cheaply made though, and I have no idea who manufactured them.
Fascinating. I love to see these “paths not taken.” Makes one think of the Volcanic in America. When I look at my old carton of VL caseless .22 ammunition (relic of Daisy’s short lived venture), I think about alternative arms. I wish the Gyrojet had been further developed. It might be a good gun for Space Force.
It's a good thing that the cartridge is so underpowered because it's fairly safe to assume that you will accidentaly fire it a minimum of 5 to 10 times during the full reloading process...
Personally, I'd be inclined to drill a hole right through and put a pin through with a "SAFE" flag on it. That little slidy thing looks dangerously loose.
@@ralphm6901it IS dangerously loose. On top of being old asf, it wasn't made by a proper gunsmith. Many of these experimental weapons were cobbled together. You don't need to be exact when you're distracted by "this will be revolutionary. How do I get it working?"
@@shawnr771I guess everyone first-time user would complain about the underpowered cartridge. Followed by praise about the underpowered cartridge after the first "loading mishap".
Thanks, it’s a while since I watched a rifle video and this one was fascinating. So ‘metal storm’ was around a long time ago and appears to have suffered the same fate.
Sounds like a perfect job for Ye Trusty Manservant of His Lordship of the time then. Also, given the issue with reloading using the trigger - gets rid of your dumber hires anyway.
Unless it somehow integrates an extractor somewhere along the chain that'd require caseless ammunition. Could be interesting but I don't see it happening anytime soon. And if it requires manual extraction while cycling the chain, oh man that'd be yet another headache to worry about!
@@extrastuff9463I don’t see this making a comeback anytime soon either. But theoretically, you could implement an extractor somewhere down the chain with a pin pushing the cartridges out somehow as a part of the action. Not a practical gun, but for some reason I think it’s really interesting
That's the most fascinating gun you've shown in a while. I'm surprised I've never seen these. You'd think they would be on the cover of gun collecting books.
I'm not a gun person but an admirer of mechanics and artistic design. You have nailed it with your description as a cool gun. These guns are brilliant examples of clever design and careful craftsmanship. I really enjoyed this video.
Respectfully, how could someone be an admirer of mechanical engineering and design, and the many clever if sub-optimal features of old guns like these, but at the same time not be a 'gun person' ? I know more than my fair share of engineers and each and every one loves guns and are gun people for largely the same reasons you stated you enjoy watching this content.
Actually this type of system would be kind of cool to be brought back for like a .22 short or long.. obviously it probably won't happen, but the idea of it just sounds kind of fun
9mm! Pack a caseless 9mm round into a plastic shroud. The shroud will make for safe distribution and ease of loading. You load the gun by pushing the round into the chamber. The round slips out of the shroud, and you simply flick the plastic shroud away, then move on to the next chamber. 80 rounds for plinking away your time.
@@aarowtheblacksmith789 caseless? not really, just have the chain retain the shells; and do an extra tedious reloading process where you need to manually extract them all.
Never stop being amazed by the inventiveness of our ancestors. I used to be an engine builder and one time we got an early motor, I don't recall anymore what model it was but it was interesting tracing down the internal oiling system and how much thought went into it. It shows that same degree of thought going into this.
This is a perfect example of a gun that I really wish there was a company doing a replica of. It would bankrupt the company, and be wildly out of my price range but man this is a cool piece.
@@indescribablecardinal6571 So you need a chainsaw chain, chisels, a chunk of hardwood, 6 sprockets, iron rebar, and 80 lead weights, and only 1 gram of powder?! What could you possibly be doing with all these?
It really is something that anyone moderately handy could do in a garage in two or three days. Setting up to make suitable ammunition could take a day by itself, casting Minié bullets, compression-loading propellant, sealing the propellant against humidity and sparks, and priming it suitably. I am thinking it is perfect for a needle round, with the primer embedded in the nose! Make .58 slugs for a .577 rifled bore about six inches long, and use compression loads of 18-28 grains of FFF or FFFFG powder; or use electrical ignition and Simulex as a propellant! (Or a combination, pin fire ignition of a 212 primer but Simulex as propellent.)
@@davidgoodnow269 I'm neither a gunsmith nor a reloader, but... Would it be practical just to make the thing a little bulkier and use ready-made 9mm?? Either: 1) have a cover over the chain so that rounds stay in the cups. Have an ejection port in front of the trigger for spent brass to fall out; or 2) have a clip of some sort to hold the rounds in the cups, and an ejector of some kind to kick the brass out.
@@ralphm6901 That sounds like a good idea, until I look at complexity and cost. Extractors are hard to get right . . . and this would be eighty chances to get it wrong, on every rifle. An extractor is a $2 part, but that's an extra $158 to the rifle, in addition to everything else like inletting and the chain. And for what? A curiosity. Certainly not commercially viable, but you could certainly build one and sell it as a curio.
It would be so cool to see a "modern" redesign of this. What a cool system, I love when you show us radically different designs, also thanks for showing the insides! Absolutely beautiful rifles, I wonder how they shoot? Wink wink nudge nudge
Thanks Ian, that was real interesting. Having been a fan of firearms for many many years, beginning in my mid-teens until now at 60+ years old, I don't recall this gun from my old books. Yes a basically 6.5mm ball with powder charge comparable to about a .22 short cartridge would be quite a challenge for a barrel more than 6 inches.
thanks Ian...again very cool "1879" rifle..!...love when u show the workings on the guns internals...!... amazing that they had a glue that held the stock together back in 1879...!..😲
@@phuzz00 Forget 9mm; Rocket Ball rounds had less total energy than a modern .22LR cartridge. They very often didn't even break the target's skin, and were frequently stopped by heavy coats.
This seems like it'd be an absolute nightmare to load, and I was thinking that BEFORE you revealed you need to pull the trigger dozens of times to load it. Sheer tedium and the risk of negligent discharge, the perfect combination.
I'd like to see a mechanism to crank the chain around by hand without pulling the trigger. For extra credit, mount it on the side, with a pin going through in front of the striker to stop negligent discharge.
i think you could modify it to become a epic air rifle, would potentially be more power full than original and you could just have a hopper that droped slugs down each time you charged it. the chain would only need to be like 10 chambers long, would remove need to reload slugs u could have a hopper that held 100s of BB's
Not really practical and I can see why commercially not so good, but what a great example of the creativity of firearms designers and engineers. Yet another great addition to Ian's video museum.
برای دوران خودش یکی از پیشرفته ترین سلاحهها بوده است واقعا لذت بردم برنامه شما را از ایران دنبال میکنم و واقعا کار شما بسیار عالیست ,سلامت باشید و موفق در کار خود
I'd like to see someone manufacture some appropriate ammo for those rocket ball ammo guns like Guycot or Volcanic and see how powerful they really were
It would be fun, both to shoot and in coming up with the mechanism! You are on the right track with a semi-rimmed cartridge like .38 acp, but that may be a little long to make a handy firearm. Perhaps .25 or .32 acp would be better choices. Then the matter of loading becomes a task.. Do you remove the chain to load cartridges from the rear of each chamber, or make some opening in the stock to allow loading and automatic ejecting of shells? Like you said, a bit of a pain, but if you could still have 60 to 75 rounds in a fairly well sealed gun ready to go... 🤔😁
@@davidschneider9145For an original gun, it would be counted as a relic and wouldn't be subject to restrictions. If someone were to make a modern version, I'm sure they would try to ban it in more restricted states. Doesn't California have AR15s with none removable magazines? Do they regulate the capacity of those? I don't live in a California, so I am unsure.
@@InfernosReaper That's a good question. I have never seen anyone try to make modern rocketball ammunition. I have to assume it wouldn't work or else someone would have tried, but you know what they say about assuming... The closest thing I've heard of was the literal rocket rounds from the gyrojet guns, and that didn't go very well.
When I was a child I had a toy rifle that worked on exactly the same principle. You could load it with tiny plastic caps with a minimum charge (20 shots if I remember correctly) It could even "shoot" a rolled paper ball from the barrel. I'm not joking: when you opened the slide on top I smelled burnt powder (which my mother hated) Other times......
I vaguely recall as a kid having a machine gun toy that took a roll of caps that could be fired as fast as you could turn a handle. It was expensive to run!
The original video on the Guycot chain pistol is the first Forgotten Weapons video I ever watched, so it's neat seeing a follow up all this time later.
If you could cycle the chain in reverse while reloading it would be a lot more "functional" in battle, as it would allow you to load 3, 5, 10, whatever amount you wanted/could load and immediately return to firing it.
I was thinking the same thing but at least this way you don't have to do 80 cycles for your first shot. If it had someway to toggle direction that'd be cool
since you load the chain before it reaches the pin, you would 'only' need to cycle 5-10 time to reach the first one loaded, if you load more though you have a whole revolution from the last one loaded to reach the rest.
I could only imagine the vibration from shooting that thing combined with the cartridges that are hanging upside down, the amount of jamming that would occur way back inside the stock, sounds like a fun time of repeated disassembly
just before ian said it, i was also thinking of the saying, "load on sunday and fire all week"... but, load on sunday, and keep loading the rest of the week... it is one of the most interesting, if not effective, guns i've ever seen. DEFINITELY thinking outside the box.
I find this an example of the importance of iterative design: had they made a simple breachloader prototype to try out the cartridge beforehand they would have known from the start the cartridge would be too underpowered to excuse having this many rounds in it.
I find it hard to believe the underpowered-ness of the cartridge would have been a surprise to them that they only found out after completing the design.
They didn't invent these rounds, all of the earliest repeating guns like the Vulcans (early lever action guns) had them, it was known that they were underpowered, but at the time it was the best way to make a repeating gun, since there was no case that needed to be extracted.
I'm imagining an improvement with the addition of an external knob or handle attached to the striker and a safety notch like an open-bolt submachine gun. It would definitely make loading the thing a lot less nerve-wracking, especially if you also had a crank or key or something to advance the chain without pulling the trigger.
I could see that if they were produced around 1900 in the US it would probably have been a prolific gallery gun in fair games and the like. They would probably have been a big hit. I can see two young guys working the booth trading turns, one loads while the other sells. I know that I would have put a nickel down to win my sweetheart a prize.
@@rudimentaryganglia don't know or care. It literally doesn't matter because at a game there are rules, such as 5¢ gets you 3 shots, or even one if the prize is big enough. Try using your imagination
80 shots is about 75 more than carnys would like to offer customers. During the past three decades the shooting game I have seen at carnivals involves an air rifle fed by an air compressor than shoots tiny bbs. When they sell you a turn they tell you that you have a generous amount of shots, something like 50. But when you actually press the trigger the air compressor blasts out all the ammo in one or two shots ! Even if carnys were willing to offer 80 shots, it would take forever before the next customer could have a turn and it would be incredibly labour intensive just to load the gun for a single customer.
Normal cartridge guns require a long barrel the caliber of the gun because the impetus on the bullet comes from the expanding gasses in a semi-sealed chamber. The higher the chamber pressure for the longer period of time, the higher the speed of the exiting bullet. That is why longer barrel lengths equal higher muzzle velocity. ( assuming the expansion of the gasses from the powder is still at some level of overpressure as the bullet exits. ) A rocket powered bullet accelerates from the Thrust of the gasses escaping the round. It does not need to be in a sealed tube, it needs the gasses to be able to accelerate freely out the back of the round. Barrels can not fit tightly because the friction of the barrel is just another force for the thrust to overcome, as opposed to being the ‘seal’ that builds chamber pressure in a regualr bullet. The over-wide outer barrel in this gun serves 2 purposes, it allows the escaping gasses to expand freely and thus does not create back-pressure on the rocket exhaust, and it acts as a rough guide tube for the acceleration of the bullet to a stable trajectory. For a regular round you want the propellant to burn off as fast as possible, to build the pressure that pushes the bullet out. The bullet on exiting the barrel is going as fast as it ever will and it loses speed from then on. For a rocket powered round, what you want is a slower burning propellant that will continue to add velocity to the round for as long as possible., given its size and relative propellant load. Unlike a regular gun, something like a gyro jet round ends up going Faster the further it flies from the barrel, until its propellant runs out at which point it has attained its maximum speed. This creates the situation that with a true rocket propelled round, it actually hits with higher kinetic energy the further the target is, up to the range at which it runs out of fuel. The hard part with rocket rounds is accuracy. If they get pointed in a different direction as they burn, they will thrust way off target. The gyro jet stabilizes its projectiles by having several jets angled to impart a gyroscopic spin to the projectile. The makers of this gun likely were not so clever, and the long barrels may represent the literal length of rocket burn time for acceleration of the round, figuring that once it left the barrel with no more rocket exhaust it would keep going the direction the barrel confined it… but that still allows for a pretty wide trajectory variance. I doubt that power was the downfall of this design, but that it was exceedingly inaccurate.
which version are you running? I took a look at the 2d20 official, GURPS, and Vaults and Deathclaws. I'm thinking Vaults and Deathclaws looks the best for what i want to do, which is a sort of Van Buren type campaign. Set post F2 and pre NV, in the west and midwest. GURPS looks pretty cool as well, but it assumes you already know how to run GURPS, and i don't.
@@eclipsegst9419 I'm running 2d20 because I use Fantasy Grounds. I've converted mine to be set shortly after fallout 2, in the Old World Blues HOI4 fan mod. If your players like fallout 4s gameplay it's perfect for it
@@eclipsegst9419It's worth it to learn GURPS. The original two PC games use GURPS for the game mechanics, so using that system "feels" just like the videogame. I definitely recommend.
Glock: "To disassemble, Unload and then pull the trigger, ya think you can handle that?" Guycot: "To load, fire the gun 80 times, but have the safety on. Do remember which position safe is, we will not hold your hand on this."
"Upon receipt of numerous complaints, we have decided to label the positions. The top position is marked S, for safe, while the bottom position is marked S, for shoot."
I'm curious how the bullets/cartridges/whatever don't fall out when they're facing downward? With all that jostling from being moved one link at a time not to mention the gun firing, you'd think you'd end up with little bits rolling around inside the stock of the gun.
We regularly have 60 round drums for pistols lol. That arent on a chain like so. But yeah for the time that THESE were made and the revolver youre raking about. Whoever made that stuff back then was faaaaar beyond there time.
No i remember this being a pistol not a relvolver the forgoten weapons video ua-cam.com/video/SgghWnZgJd0/v-deo.html also standard capacity for most pistols is about 15 as in the mag u get with the gun is noramaly around there . yes we can get stendos but like a glock with a 32 in there or even a drum like your saying is a big bulky and sometimes awkward to use but like this thing is nice and a comfortable size that dosnent jut our or get snaged or anything compared to a big aa drum mag
It occurred to me that having the barrel so much shorter then that external sleeve would likely mean that this weapon would have zero flash. A primitive version of a flash hider built directly into the mechanism
Maybe there's still merit to the basic rocketball concept in having the propellant carried by the projectile as it burns from the back, applying a more consistent pressure.
Looks like a tiger, hits like a Nerf Gun. This still was brilliant innovation, creation, and forward thinking. I can think of a few adjustments, that could actually turn this into an awesome weapon. Alas, I'mma poor man, lol.
Ian has finally found the perfect gun for The Chieftain. It even has a track tensioning system!
😂
Ohh my gosh yes.
my god you’re right
Yes, but is it a Christie system? 🧐🤣
Yes! Perfect 😂
I LOVE your persona. You’re an absolute gun nut, but not from the demolition ranch style. You’re a scholar of firearms, not a clickbait redneck. Your appreciation of firearms, their history, & so much more, really shines through in every video; I respect & appreciate it.
"not a clickbait redneck" Tell us how you really think. I'll never forget just into the '60s Dad took our family up on Sand Mountain (the bottom of the Appalachian mountain chain) to visit some extended relatives he was close to in his youth. Redneck didn't used to be a pejorative. To paraphrase Sigmund Freud, sometimes a redneck is just a redneck."
@@theviewbotreal
@@theviewbotfacts. People who shoot nice guns on UA-cam aren't "clickbait rednecks" lmao
@@jamesmackes4531You just gave unsolicited advice...
amen and thats a super rare quality in todays market....thank god there's one left to enjoy... thank you
Imagine your surprise, in 1880, fighting an opponent who fired 80 times in a row without loading.... The cartridge may be weak, but the sheer volume of fire would be frightening
I can't imagine the report of the gun would be an intimidating boom, though. Seems like it wouldn't have been much noisier than a pellet gun, and not terrifically more powerful per shot.
Imagine you'll be even more surprised when all the bullets just bounce off your thick woolen coat and sturdy felt hat. 😅
“Tonight, we’re gonna Rocket!”
“Rocket what?”
“ROCKET BALLS! He he he…”
It hits you in the eye and it doesn’t even do significant damage, yiu just go “ow, fuck” and tear up a but
Now imagine a company of them
A "rocket-ball firing chain-rifle" legitimately sounds like something a 9 year old would come up with if you asked them to make the coolest gun they can possibly think of.
Lmao
Ork rifle... 1000%
With a HOPPER
Sounds like it could also be a Fallout weapon.
Gives a whole new meaning to chain gun!! Lol
Imagine Clint Eastwood with this weapon - " You're thinking "Did he fire 80 shots or only 70?" Now to tell you the truth, I've forgotten myself in all this excitement. "
And that wouldn't just be playful banter; he literally would have lost count at some point.
But being as this is a guycot rocketball, the least powerful weapon in the world, and would probably sting considerably, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?"
It would be Henri Sordide and played by Jean Reno 😂
@@mbr5742 Amazing 😆
Hahahaha
You know, this mechanism is actually quite elegant. I can totally imagine such a thing today in .22 with some sort of transparent side panel to see how the mechanism operates and some tweaks to the reloading system, like a crank powered tool. It would be a really cool, novelty plinker to have fun with.
One could make an improved one with a modern chainsaw!
transparent side panel? Don't forget the RGB LEDs
i think this could be used in a air rifle assembly very effectively, you could have a much larger 'charge' for each cartidge with a air chamber. & the chain would only need to be large enough to hold the slug
@@hamasmillitant1 You may be on to something. Or make it a multi barreled machine of devastation, where turning the crankshaft would prime an air piston, place the pellet in the chamber, release the piston and prime the next one as it turns!
Personally I'm for the LED screen though.
I was thinking this. But, if it was firing .22, how would you eject the spent cartridges? would you need to take them all out manually while reloading?
Here in Italy, from the 1960s onwards, companies like Molgora and EDISON Giocattoli have been manufacturing cap firing toy guns that feed in exactly the same way! :D
EDISON Giocattoli make some very kool and interesting toy guns! And at very decent quality too!
@@tHiNk413 as a kid I had quite a stash of those!
I remember toy cap guns in the UK that would fire from a paper strip of charges(? not sure of the correct term), although rather than a chain, it was more like a belt. I seem to remember most of them feeling really cheaply made though, and I have no idea who manufactured them.
@@phuzz00 the paper strip was used by Molgora (MAM, which has since shut down). Edison toy guns use bright red or bright yellow plastic caps.
@@phuzz00I recall the word on the card paper box was a French term 'Amorces'
Gives a whole new meaning to chain gun. Honestly one of the most unique guns out there, one I'd love to see in a game
There's some roblox cowboy game with them called the wild west although it is roblox
@@caverncreaturehe said s game Roblox isn't a game it's a waste of time
@@stugotswinswow
Brings new meaning to the term "chainfire".
Exactly!
considering how weak the cartridge is according to all of these comments, you'd likely just feel a vibration in the stock... 😆
Definitely a chain gun! No doubt
Thanks, this is the very definition of a Forgotten Weapon
Unironically makes for a pretty good period varmint rifle to clear off a large property without needing to reload.
Yeah solong as the varmints are mice.
would last well in dusty and dirty environments to
And then 81 rats show up
How else are you supposed to protect your farm from 60 to 80 feral rats?
NO. The rocket ball was HUGELY underpowered. A weak primer under 5 grains of black powder.
Fascinating. I love to see these “paths not taken.” Makes one think of the Volcanic in America. When I look at my old carton of VL caseless .22 ammunition (relic of Daisy’s short lived venture), I think about alternative arms. I wish the Gyrojet had been further developed. It might be a good gun for Space Force.
Heh. *"Moonraker".*
The space force would be satellite experts.
There are air guns now that shoot larger calibers at higher velocities
@@HighCoupDeTat Yeah, I'm looking at the Hatsan .30.
I was imagining this design but with Gyrojet style projectiles.
It's a good thing that the cartridge is so underpowered because it's fairly safe to assume that you will accidentaly fire it a minimum of 5 to 10 times during the full reloading process...
Just make sure it’s pointing towards the enemy when reloading
For safety reasons, the first step in the reloading process is "Instruct your manservant to do the following"
...and after you filled cartridge 79 the whole thing goes off in one blast.
Personally, I'd be inclined to drill a hole right through and put a pin through with a "SAFE" flag on it. That little slidy thing looks dangerously loose.
@@ralphm6901it IS dangerously loose. On top of being old asf, it wasn't made by a proper gunsmith. Many of these experimental weapons were cobbled together. You don't need to be exact when you're distracted by "this will be revolutionary. How do I get it working?"
Sweet!! Very interesting. Even if it doesn’t have the energy of a modern break barrel pellet gun, props to the dudes who made this work.
I would think it would be a lifetime level achievement to get all 80 loaded and have all 80 actually shoot.
Red dead redemption 2 should have this achievement. I’m amazed they havent had this rifle
Or manage to load all 80 without an accidental discharge.
@@shawnr771I guess everyone first-time user would complain about the underpowered cartridge. Followed by praise about the underpowered cartridge after the first "loading mishap".
@@klausstock8020 hopefully the weapon would be pointed in a safe direction.
@@narrowpath9491 I'd look for a mod for it
Thanks, it’s a while since I watched a rifle video and this one was fascinating. So ‘metal storm’ was around a long time ago and appears to have suffered the same fate.
It doesn’t matter how underpowered the ammunition is, by the time you reload your opponent will have died of old age anyway.
If your opponent survive 80 shots. (^_^)
Sounds like the perfect weapon to fight a certain Metal Gear Solid 3 boss...
Sounds like a perfect job for Ye Trusty Manservant of His Lordship of the time then. Also, given the issue with reloading using the trigger - gets rid of your dumber hires anyway.
Either that or he'll be helpless with laughter.
You don't reload, you just grab a new rifle, obviously.
The ingenuity is pretty impressive. Imagine a modern day version of this in a 22 short or lr.
Unless it somehow integrates an extractor somewhere along the chain that'd require caseless ammunition. Could be interesting but I don't see it happening anytime soon. And if it requires manual extraction while cycling the chain, oh man that'd be yet another headache to worry about!
@@extrastuff9463I don’t see this making a comeback anytime soon either. But theoretically, you could implement an extractor somewhere down the chain with a pin pushing the cartridges out somehow as a part of the action. Not a practical gun, but for some reason I think it’s really interesting
@@extrastuff9463 Just make it so you can take the chain out.
80 rounds is impressive, but a P90 already carry 50 rounds and they are way more effective than .22
@@marcopederzoli4939 I was looking at it from a plinking standpoint or varmint control on the farm.
That's the most fascinating gun you've shown in a while. I'm surprised I've never seen these. You'd think they would be on the cover of gun collecting books.
@HalideHelixBetter stay away from copperhead road!
And now the DEAs got a chopper in the air, I wake up screaming like I’m back over there
I'm not a gun person but an admirer of mechanics and artistic design. You have nailed it with your description as a cool gun. These guns are brilliant examples of clever design and careful craftsmanship. I really enjoyed this video.
Respectfully, how could someone be an admirer of mechanical engineering and design, and the many clever if sub-optimal features of old guns like these, but at the same time not be a 'gun person' ? I know more than my fair share of engineers and each and every one loves guns and are gun people for largely the same reasons you stated you enjoy watching this content.
@@memeburner56because guns (at least modern ones) are all
largely built the same way and once you know one, you kinda know all of them.
Actually this type of system would be kind of cool to be brought back for like a .22 short or long.. obviously it probably won't happen, but the idea of it just sounds kind of fun
I doubt it would for safety reasons much like turret guns. If an unchambered round went off inside it'd be pretty bad.
Trouble is that it needs to be caseless ammunition, so it would need to be totally redesigned to take .22
@@ryshellso526the 3D printer bros could 👀
9mm! Pack a caseless 9mm round into a plastic shroud. The shroud will make for safe distribution and ease of loading. You load the gun by pushing the round into the chamber. The round slips out of the shroud, and you simply flick the plastic shroud away, then move on to the next chamber.
80 rounds for plinking away your time.
@@aarowtheblacksmith789 caseless? not really, just have the chain retain the shells; and do an extra tedious reloading process where you need to manually extract them all.
Never stop being amazed by the inventiveness of our ancestors. I used to be an engine builder and one time we got an early motor, I don't recall anymore what model it was but it was interesting tracing down the internal oiling system and how much thought went into it. It shows that same degree of thought going into this.
This is a perfect example of a gun that I really wish there was a company doing a replica of. It would bankrupt the company, and be wildly out of my price range but man this is a cool piece.
It seems interesting as a personal project with the right tools and techniques.
@@indescribablecardinal6571 So you need a chainsaw chain, chisels, a chunk of hardwood, 6 sprockets, iron rebar, and 80 lead weights, and only 1 gram of powder?! What could you possibly be doing with all these?
It really is something that anyone moderately handy could do in a garage in two or three days.
Setting up to make suitable ammunition could take a day by itself, casting Minié bullets, compression-loading propellant, sealing the propellant against humidity and sparks, and priming it suitably. I am thinking it is perfect for a needle round, with the primer embedded in the nose!
Make .58 slugs for a .577 rifled bore about six inches long, and use compression loads of 18-28 grains of FFF or FFFFG powder; or use electrical ignition and Simulex as a propellant! (Or a combination, pin fire ignition of a 212 primer but Simulex as propellent.)
@@davidgoodnow269 I'm neither a gunsmith nor a reloader, but... Would it be practical just to make the thing a little bulkier and use ready-made 9mm?? Either:
1) have a cover over the chain so that rounds stay in the cups. Have an ejection port in front of the trigger for spent brass to fall out;
or 2) have a clip of some sort to hold the rounds in the cups, and an ejector of some kind to kick the brass out.
@@ralphm6901 That sounds like a good idea, until I look at complexity and cost. Extractors are hard to get right . . . and this would be eighty chances to get it wrong, on every rifle. An extractor is a $2 part, but that's an extra $158 to the rifle, in addition to everything else like inletting and the chain.
And for what? A curiosity. Certainly not commercially viable, but you could certainly build one and sell it as a curio.
It would be so cool to see a "modern" redesign of this. What a cool system, I love when you show us radically different designs, also thanks for showing the insides! Absolutely beautiful rifles, I wonder how they shoot? Wink wink nudge nudge
What a great throwback, my uncle introduced me to this channel by showing me the original Guycot pistol video. Keep it up guys!
I love the quirky engineering that goes into things like this.
What a magnificent series of words with which to make a title.
Thanks Ian, that was real interesting. Having been a fan of firearms for many many years, beginning in my mid-teens until now at 60+ years old, I don't recall this gun from my old books. Yes a basically 6.5mm ball with powder charge comparable to about a .22 short cartridge would be quite a challenge for a barrel more than 6 inches.
Would be very interesting to see a live firing and gel testing if ammo can be made.
I wanted to see this be used/demo’ed so bad!!! Such a cool firearm of the old days. Would have been neat too see the firepower.
I didn’t expect a sequel
'I can't believe someone did this more than once.'
Nobody expects the French Inquisition!
It's a French firearm. Did you really think that Ian wouldn't make a video on this?
thanks Ian...again very cool "1879" rifle..!...love when u show the workings on the guns internals...!... amazing that they had a glue that held the stock together back in 1879...!..😲
For those who say there's no history of "high capacity magazines" in older firearms...
Although the entire 'magazine' probably has less stopping power than a single modern 9mm round...
@@phuzz00 Try hit more than one target with one 9mm bullet.
Keeping criminality dangerous but it's the 17th century:
"Trifle with me and discover firsthand"
@@XtreeM_FaiL Just split the bullet with a katana mid-flight, duh!
@@phuzz00 Forget 9mm; Rocket Ball rounds had less total energy than a modern .22LR cartridge. They very often didn't even break the target's skin, and were frequently stopped by heavy coats.
This seems like it'd be an absolute nightmare to load, and I was thinking that BEFORE you revealed you need to pull the trigger dozens of times to load it. Sheer tedium and the risk of negligent discharge, the perfect combination.
Well said!
Only further improved by making that very first cartridge a 50/50 on losing something makes it even *better!*
I'd like to see a mechanism to crank the chain around by hand without pulling the trigger. For extra credit, mount it on the side, with a pin going through in front of the striker to stop negligent discharge.
yeah and I'll bet it malfunctioned all the time so you'd have a lot of misfires. Totally convoluted nightmare.
i think you could modify it to become a epic air rifle, would potentially be more power full than original and you could just have a hopper that droped slugs down each time you charged it. the chain would only need to be like 10 chambers long, would remove need to reload slugs u could have a hopper that held 100s of BB's
Imagine dropping the ball, missing its cradle.
Not the first multi shot rifle, but a dang cool one!
Not really practical and I can see why commercially not so good, but what a great example of the creativity of firearms designers and engineers. Yet another great addition to Ian's video museum.
The most unusual firearm I've ever seen! Thanks Ian!
برای دوران خودش یکی از پیشرفته ترین سلاحهها بوده است واقعا لذت بردم برنامه شما را از ایران دنبال میکنم و واقعا کار شما بسیار عالیست ,سلامت باشید و موفق در کار خود
Another great video about a lesser-known weapon generously provided to us by Ian.
I'd like to see someone manufacture some appropriate ammo for those rocket ball ammo guns like Guycot or Volcanic and see how powerful they really were
One can easily imagine a kind of novelty rifle in .38 acp with 80 round. The reloading is annoying n' tediously. But you will got fun on the range.
Since it’s built into the gun, doesn’t it also circumvent bans on high capacity magazines?
It would be fun, both to shoot and in coming up with the mechanism! You are on the right track with a semi-rimmed cartridge like .38 acp, but that may be a little long to make a handy firearm. Perhaps .25 or .32 acp would be better choices. Then the matter of loading becomes a task.. Do you remove the chain to load cartridges from the rear of each chamber, or make some opening in the stock to allow loading and automatic ejecting of shells? Like you said, a bit of a pain, but if you could still have 60 to 75 rounds in a fairly well sealed gun ready to go... 🤔😁
@@davidschneider9145For an original gun, it would be counted as a relic and wouldn't be subject to restrictions. If someone were to make a modern version, I'm sure they would try to ban it in more restricted states. Doesn't California have AR15s with none removable magazines? Do they regulate the capacity of those? I don't live in a California, so I am unsure.
I am honestly imagining how much more punch it would have if it used smokeless power
@@InfernosReaper That's a good question. I have never seen anyone try to make modern rocketball ammunition. I have to assume it wouldn't work or else someone would have tried, but you know what they say about assuming...
The closest thing I've heard of was the literal rocket rounds from the gyrojet guns, and that didn't go very well.
WOW, great show mate. I've never seen anything like this before
When I was a child I had a toy rifle that worked on exactly the same principle. You could load it with tiny plastic caps with a minimum charge (20 shots if I remember correctly)
It could even "shoot" a rolled paper ball from the barrel.
I'm not joking: when you opened the slide on top I smelled burnt powder (which my mother hated)
Other times......
I was thinking of plastic cap, or even paper cap toys as well when I saw that 😄
I vaguely recall as a kid having a machine gun toy that took a roll of caps that could be fired as fast as you could turn a handle. It was expensive to run!
I wanted to see this be used/demo’ed so bad!!! Such a cool video irregardless
These 4 words are pretty cool individually, but even better together.
The original video on the Guycot chain pistol is the first Forgotten Weapons video I ever watched, so it's neat seeing a follow up all this time later.
If you could cycle the chain in reverse while reloading it would be a lot more "functional" in battle, as it would allow you to load 3, 5, 10, whatever amount you wanted/could load and immediately return to firing it.
I was thinking the same thing but at least this way you don't have to do 80 cycles for your first shot. If it had someway to toggle direction that'd be cool
@@Solvernia definitely, when he first showed the safety switch that's what i was anticipating it would be.
since you load the chain before it reaches the pin, you would 'only' need to cycle 5-10 time to reach the first one loaded, if you load more though you have a whole revolution from the last one loaded to reach the rest.
"you can load it on Monday and shoot all week long" is my favorite quote of all time. imma use it for everything
The Sig Air MCX Virtus operates in a similar way. I bet that thing was fun for plinking.
I could only imagine the vibration from shooting that thing combined with the cartridges that are hanging upside down, the amount of jamming that would occur way back inside the stock, sounds like a fun time of repeated disassembly
"I don't think we can use the full barrel length, seeing as our cartridge has roughly the power of an energetic spitball."
it’d be good for crowd control and riot suppression though!
A competition between this and a someone particularly good with a blowgun could be interesting.
just before ian said it, i was also thinking of the saying, "load on sunday and fire all week"... but, load on sunday, and keep loading the rest of the week... it is one of the most interesting, if not effective, guns i've ever seen. DEFINITELY thinking outside the box.
Very cool and unusual gun. Thanks for showing it.
As we learned from Ian's series on Winchester's lever guns, some of the early models (not branded Winchester) fired rocket balls too.
I knew that the gun is going to be goofy, but hadn't expected a fake barrel
just when you think you've seen it all.
Thank you for your time and knowledge.
Finally, the sequel to the danger pistol
I remember watching your vid about the handgun version.
*Guycot: Fifteen minutes of loading can give your fifteen percent or more in shooting time.* 😂
This would be a great Goat Gun for the Geico Gecko for sure.
a great very interesting video and weapon Mr.GJ.Have a good one.
Great to see a forgotten weapon on Forgotten Weapons rather than a state-of-the-art not old enough to be a forgotten weapon weapon.
This was absolutely mind-blowing. Thank you so much for sharing. You've got a new subscriber in me!
I find this an example of the importance of iterative design: had they made a simple breachloader prototype to try out the cartridge beforehand they would have known from the start the cartridge would be too underpowered to excuse having this many rounds in it.
I find it hard to believe the underpowered-ness of the cartridge would have been a surprise to them that they only found out after completing the design.
They didn't invent these rounds, all of the earliest repeating guns like the Vulcans (early lever action guns) had them, it was known that they were underpowered, but at the time it was the best way to make a repeating gun, since there was no case that needed to be extracted.
That safety is SO 1800's...Love it!
This is where Hollywood got the idea for guns that never need reloading.
PLEASE! Do a range video with one of these firearms!
Ian, are you bringing this to the next Two Gun Match? What will be the pistol...😏 A Gyrojet? 🤣. Or a Volcanic? 😛
I'm imagining an improvement with the addition of an external knob or handle attached to the striker and a safety notch like an open-bolt submachine gun. It would definitely make loading the thing a lot less nerve-wracking, especially if you also had a crank or key or something to advance the chain without pulling the trigger.
And a marking engraved of, say, a hand missing bits of fingers, and a hand with four plus a thumb intact!
I could see that if they were produced around 1900 in the US it would probably have been a prolific gallery gun in fair games and the like. They would probably have been a big hit. I can see two young guys working the booth trading turns, one loads while the other sells. I know that I would have put a nickel down to win my sweetheart a prize.
How much would it have costed for the 80 rounds at the time though?
@@rudimentaryganglia don't know or care. It literally doesn't matter because at a game there are rules, such as 5¢ gets you 3 shots, or even one if the prize is big enough. Try using your imagination
@@MikkellTheImmortalthat's a perfect use for them. I guessed you would need a different shooter from reloader.
80 shots is about 75 more than carnys would like to offer customers. During the past three decades the shooting game I have seen at carnivals involves an air rifle fed by an air compressor than shoots tiny bbs. When they sell you a turn they tell you that you have a generous amount of shots, something like 50. But when you actually press the trigger the air compressor blasts out all the ammo in one or two shots ! Even if carnys were willing to offer
80 shots, it would take forever before the next customer could have a turn and it would be incredibly labour intensive just to load the gun for a single customer.
I feel educated watching this show. Amazing 80-round underdog. I had no idea.
Normal cartridge guns require a long barrel the caliber of the gun because the impetus on the bullet comes from the expanding gasses in a semi-sealed chamber. The higher the chamber pressure for the longer period of time, the higher the speed of the exiting bullet. That is why longer barrel lengths equal higher muzzle velocity. ( assuming the expansion of the gasses from the powder is still at some level of overpressure as the bullet exits. )
A rocket powered bullet accelerates from the Thrust of the gasses escaping the round. It does not need to be in a sealed tube, it needs the gasses to be able to accelerate freely out the back of the round. Barrels can not fit tightly because the friction of the barrel is just another force for the thrust to overcome, as opposed to being the ‘seal’ that builds chamber pressure in a regualr bullet. The over-wide outer barrel in this gun serves 2 purposes, it allows the escaping gasses to expand freely and thus does not create back-pressure on the rocket exhaust, and it acts as a rough guide tube for the acceleration of the bullet to a stable trajectory. For a regular round you want the propellant to burn off as fast as possible, to build the pressure that pushes the bullet out. The bullet on exiting the barrel is going as fast as it ever will and it loses speed from then on.
For a rocket powered round, what you want is a slower burning propellant that will continue to add velocity to the round for as long as possible., given its size and relative propellant load. Unlike a regular gun, something like a gyro jet round ends up going Faster the further it flies from the barrel, until its propellant runs out at which point it has attained its maximum speed. This creates the situation that with a true rocket propelled round, it actually hits with higher kinetic energy the further the target is, up to the range at which it runs out of fuel.
The hard part with rocket rounds is accuracy. If they get pointed in a different direction as they burn, they will thrust way off target. The gyro jet stabilizes its projectiles by having several jets angled to impart a gyroscopic spin to the projectile. The makers of this gun likely were not so clever, and the long barrels may represent the literal length of rocket burn time for acceleration of the round, figuring that once it left the barrel with no more rocket exhaust it would keep going the direction the barrel confined it… but that still allows for a pretty wide trajectory variance. I doubt that power was the downfall of this design, but that it was exceedingly inaccurate.
i know nothing about guns but loved this video. thank you.
Thought i just found another hidden 8 year old gem on the channel.
ive been waiting for this video!
As someone running a fallout rpg, obscure black powder is a sweet spot for me
which version are you running? I took a look at the 2d20 official, GURPS, and Vaults and Deathclaws. I'm thinking Vaults and Deathclaws looks the best for what i want to do, which is a sort of Van Buren type campaign. Set post F2 and pre NV, in the west and midwest. GURPS looks pretty cool as well, but it assumes you already know how to run GURPS, and i don't.
@@eclipsegst9419 I'm running 2d20 because I use Fantasy Grounds.
I've converted mine to be set shortly after fallout 2, in the Old World Blues HOI4 fan mod.
If your players like fallout 4s gameplay it's perfect for it
@@eclipsegst9419It's worth it to learn GURPS. The original two PC games use GURPS for the game mechanics, so using that system "feels" just like the videogame. I definitely recommend.
C O O L !!!!
I am no gun collector, but I would love to have one of those.
So much for that "no one imagined large capacity magazines" thing.
THE SEQUAL IVE BEEN WAITING FOR !!!!
Glock: "To disassemble, Unload and then pull the trigger, ya think you can handle that?" Guycot: "To load, fire the gun 80 times, but have the safety on. Do remember which position safe is, we will not hold your hand on this."
"Upon receipt of numerous complaints, we have decided to label the positions. The top position is marked S, for safe, while the bottom position is marked S, for shoot."
Fascinating weapon!!!!! Thanks for sharing.
I'm sure none of the ammo exists but it would be really interesting to see some tested. Even if it was replica ammo made on the known specs.
Wow! I never knew this rifle/gun existed. Amazing engineering for the time. Thanks for sharing!
I'm curious how the bullets/cartridges/whatever don't fall out when they're facing downward? With all that jostling from being moved one link at a time not to mention the gun firing, you'd think you'd end up with little bits rolling around inside the stock of the gun.
Yeah! What if you bumped it into something or dropped it? Would you just have multiple live rounds rattling around in the stock?
Reminds me very much of the more modern Anics (spelling) Blackbird CO2 powered air pistol... An intriguing design... Thanks Ian.
Basically a pistol hiding inside a rifle skin.
Long barreled pistol? Ban imminent
So a carbine?
@@tentacledood5784 Not really, this as a carbine would be without the fake barrel attached to it.
@@admiral_franz_von_hipper5436 Oh.
One of the most interesting guns I've seen here! Cool.
i remember watching the pistol verson years ago and i still think a 40 round pistol is remarkable even for today
We regularly have 60 round drums for pistols lol. That arent on a chain like so. But yeah for the time that THESE were made and the revolver youre raking about. Whoever made that stuff back then was faaaaar beyond there time.
No i remember this being a pistol not a relvolver
the forgoten weapons video
ua-cam.com/video/SgghWnZgJd0/v-deo.html
also standard capacity for most pistols is about 15 as in the mag u get with the gun is noramaly around there . yes we can get stendos but like a glock with a 32 in there or even a drum like your saying is a big bulky and sometimes awkward to use but like this thing is nice and a comfortable size that dosnent jut our or get snaged or anything compared to a big aa drum mag
@@justinbiller6683 ahh okay thats sweet. Ive seen chain revolvers as well so like a 40 round revolver.
Now I have a vision of 80 1" .36 cap & ball barrels mounted to a bicycle as a 1855 sub gun circling round my skull. Thanks Ian.
It is a very clever design. There are probably a number of single point failures that can happen but kudos to the outside the box thinking.
I would rather say "inside the stock" thinking...
I absolutely love this gun, & your content. What an Amazing piece of history!! TY4SHARING ❤
It occurred to me that having the barrel so much shorter then that external sleeve would likely mean that this weapon would have zero flash. A primitive version of a flash hider built directly into the mechanism
Also very quiet potentially.
very comprehensive video thankyou
A Guycot is a Boycot when he is a grown-up. I'll see my self out...
Have confidence in your joke bruh
Thank you for interesting videos!
And my special thanks for your pronunciation, it helps me learn english language!
Imagine an 80 cartridge "chain" fire.
Maybe there's still merit to the basic rocketball concept in having the propellant carried by the projectile as it burns from the back, applying a more consistent pressure.
Looks like a tiger, hits like a Nerf Gun.
This still was brilliant innovation, creation, and forward thinking. I can think of a few adjustments, that could actually turn this into an awesome weapon. Alas, I'mma poor man, lol.
That would have been great for plinking back in the day.
Special kind of evil not to mark the safety
Rocket ball chain rifle. What a great collections of words. The future has finally arrived, egads!