Ian 2021: "...it looks beautiful, despite my finger prints being on it." Historian 4021: "We find the finger prints of the same person on all of our historical collection. He must have been a great early 20th century General or Warlord."
Archeologist, 4021: "The primitives of the Silicon Age obviously had a religious ritual in which a single high-status religious official blessed one example of each and every firearm."
@@ripley4601 "A corpse... should be left well alone. Oh, I know very well. How the secrets beckon so sweetly. Only an honest death will cure you now. Liberate you, from your wild curiosity."
Most people: “Why not just use a revolver instead of something this complicated?” Bittner owner: “I’m sorry, is this some sort of peasant joke I’m too rich to understand?”
Love how simple he managed to make it. That locking lug should make it possible to safely chamber it for a pretty serious cartridge compared to the guns that relied on just your finger to keep the bolt closed.
I was about to type this very thing! I'd say the only improvement might be a modern style clip for the ammo. Then you'd have an ultra-simple gun with only 3 springs! I'm picturing a small, manually operated pistol with a slight nod to the style of a Škorpion 🤔
Owner of ancient gun to everyone in the world - Look but dont touch peasants! Owner of ancient gun to Ian - Please borrow my screwdriver, do you need any other tools?
@@minuteman4199 precisely this. I have decent knowledge of old firearms and action types, especially having watched Ian for so long, but because of my knowledge, I wouldnt dare touch unless I was looking to buy or the owner offered.
Honestly, if they got a replica of this and threw a longer scope on top, maybe a muzzle brake or laser, and sealed off the bottom to infer where the battery pack is, it would make a pretty sweet blaster
@@johnnycovenant2286 I was just about to post a reply saying "nah a bowler" when I thought to check your reply first. Ian is definitely a bowler hat person, or if in uniform, a WW1 service dress cap.
The operating system is the equivalent to designing the best buggy whip ever the same year Henry ford introduces the model T. Still a beautiful pistol.
It's actually so well designed that a high schooler could recreate it with modern machine tools from this video alone. It looks like the only thing that needs to be exactly the right size and shape is the cam hole.
@@ScottKenny1978 i have to admit, I'm very tempted to try and replicate this myself. maybe tweak it a bit to make it work with ammunition that's more commonly available today, but I'm fairly certain that with access to a lathe and a mill, i could probably make one of these.
@@cheyannei5983 The barrel is likely by far the most difficult thing to machine right. That, and getting the right hardness of the springs. Conceptually simple things lie that is far harder and typically require both relatively extensive knowledge as well as expensive equipment. It's a reason a lot of backwoods guns found in China or Singaporean jungles are smooth bore. While understanding that rifling is good and to get the general concept of it is easy, putting it into practice is much harder.
@@s.p..smdness8748 yeah, wondered that myself. At least that one existed. Guess they were a bit lazy and did not want to render a different rifle when an existing model could be used instead.
I wonder how many pieces made it past Ian with him seriously considering purchasing it. His enthusiasm is always infectious, but doubly so when he finds an example he really likes.
Thanks Ian. There are some more though like the Knower Keith-Bristol Tube fed manual repeating pistol, clair and swanstrom tube-fed autoloading pistols, francotte mechanical repeating grip-box fed pistol, mershon and hollingsworth clockwound autorevolver, kovonalov fully automatic revolver, mateba unica revolver, remington zig-zag mechanical repeating revolver pepperbox, thomas bland 6 shot double action derringer, jim march frankenruger tube-fed gas ejecting revolver, enarm pentagun gas sealing pull barrel revolver, tatarek blowforward carbine, zb-47 holek vertical-fed carbine, bayle string wallet pistol and of course my favorite.. the landstandt box fed auto-ejecting revolver.
So much of what is shared on this channel is fascinating. This series has been really interesting. I'm totally behind Ian on this pistol, a work of art on every level.
I’ve watched a ton of your videos and this is the first time I’ve seen you go full out ga ga over a piece you would actually like to own. Pretty high praise.
this looks like what the world of firearms would have looked like had the flintlock/musket style of design language stayed through the advent of smokeless black powder and cartridges.
It's been a while since you posted this but I wanted to thank you for presenting us with this exquisite pistol. I've followed for many years but this piece is absolutely beautiful in it's simplicity.
Good question, but it seems like every bastard at the time was looking for a smokeless powder. The one way I can think of it happening is to move the Great War forward twenty years and the USA stays out. All Europe is bankrupt and the US thinks it should avoid military spending.
I don't think smokeless killed these so much as just the large amount of revolvers coming out before them and the development of autoloading handguns rather soon after. Add a second locking lug to this design and you have something at least strong enough for a standard pistol cartridge of today. The real issue is the very open action for any military setting. Where much and grime is going to get deep inside. I suppose a safety would solve that however. Carry locked and cocked and on safe.
@@tristanc3873 Although this one (surprisingly) seems to lack a safety the prior ones he has shown actually do have safeties which lock the bolt/trigger and the firing pin. You totally could carry it locked and cocked on safe. I think honestly the big thing that really killed them is just that revolvers do the exact same job and due to them already having been mass produced for nearly 50 years at this point they were just far more economical. If this design was closer to 1850 I think it really could have been viable though. Having a drop in mannlicher clip is far faster to reload than really anything but something like a moonclip on a break action revolver while also being a lighter and simpler to manufacture reloading solution. The revolvers which would compete with this functionally are a heavier and more complicated thing to produce so on its merits it makes sense. It was just too far behind the economy of scale at that point to ever really replace the revolver and with the invention of smokeless powder and autoloading handguns it was just dead in the water at that point.
Please do a video gathering information on how collectors preserve guns that'll be just stored away or sit in a display for a long time. If the collectors don't want to talk about it, maybe someone from an Institute.
Not really my typical style of firearm of interest, but that truly is a gorgeous piece. Case hardening can produce such awesome looks, but there's something about it that looks even better when it's well-aged and has also been taken care of. Especially when coupled with such a unique design.
All of these ring fire guns have been a mix of odd and beautiful as well as elegant. I've really enjoyed a look at these as I've never really seen them and have had no exposure to them so it's been fascinating! I do enjoy these odd guns.
I liked how even the outside screws had an engraved patterned on them! It may have been a more simplified version of a ring trigger pistol but it sure is more complexly designed visually!
Hey Ian, I have an odd question that I realized I never thought of until now, but how did they actually go about machining such intricate and lovely shapes and cavities in firearms back in the 19th and even 18th centuries? I couldn't imagine the method of milling even a hundred of these by hand with such accuracy and fitment. There must have been some crude form of mechanical "cnc" or something. Do you have any knowledge on the types of Mills and processes that factories or workshops would use? If so Id love to see an episode on the actual act of gunsmithing itself throughout the ages!
General outline of components was produced in the forging process. Parts were held in fixtures (Position and hold the part), and jigs (Guide the tool). Machines used included lathes, horizontal and vertical mills, shapers, broaching presses, drill presses, boring machines, and of course gun drills and rifling machines. Repeatable accuracy relied on the use of limit stops on the machine, the dimensional consistency of the cutting tools, and extreme care in setting up, which is why tool makers and tool setters were paid what were, for the time, high wages. Some operations could only be done on special purpose machines, or with non standard cutters, which a small shop like Bittner's would have tried to avoid, because of the expense. Fit and finish were still largely hand processes in the 1880s, even in the big government arsenals.
webtoedman gave a very good explanation, but I'd like to add that by the 1890s basic "programming" methods for tools were already well-developed. You can do Victorian-era CNC machining. Get a movable jig, attach a few cams and gears to one axis of movement to control the sequence of its travel speed (for example high-high-low-high-stop-low-stop-low), then do the same for the other axis and lock them together with gearing. When one axis stops while the other is moving, you get a straight line in one direction. When both axes move at the same speed, you get a diagonal line. When one is moving faster than the other, you get a curve. Then you control the shaping of depth curvature by camming the cutting tool's up-down movement and lock that onto the other two axes. The cutting tool is powered by some mechanical power source, but the cam-and-gear mechanism driving the jig and tool is usually manually-driven. You just need a machinist with a bit of arm strength and stamina to crank a wheel (or two) and who has a functioning brain and working eyes to recognize quickly when something's wrong with the jig. He doesn't need to know the exact movements of the tooling setup to get the shapes needed, the tool will do it for him. All he needs to be able to do is to regularly and smoothly rotate the wheel(s) driving the jig. This ensures accuracy and repeatability. This is why the toolmakers were very well paid. They needed to have very good engineering knowledge and a lot of intuition to set up and build such tools. Our modern CNC machines basically function the same way but with electronics and sensors driving accuracy and repeatability. The cams that used to control curvature have been replaced by speed controls on electric motors, and those motors have replaced the machinists' steady hands.
@@andrewsuryali8540 The fundamentals of the Pratt and Whitney automatic screw machine, and many others. I love this channel, it's so civilised and erudite.
Yeah that's likely why there is not too many of them im pretty sure that anybody that tried to go up against somebody with a single action colt who knew how to use it would get smoked like so much salmon !!!!
I actually have drawings for that one from the old patents, and was planning to make a replica (maybe convertible). If you had a couple of reference measurements of the real gun, I would love to use them to update my calibre- derived ones.
My home town museum has one of these - near mint condition at their collection. Some decades ago I happened to find out this and was really surprised to see it. It seems that somebody had donated in - but for sure it is in wrong place - the museum seems to have no clue what they have in storage or they do not see it´s value as a museum piece - it is not shown to public - and that is a shame in deed.
This is it. This is the model I’ve always imagined could have been made 1-200 years before it came out, even as a single shot, and addressed all the issues inherent to a muzzleloader. Imagine a single-shot breechloader that look paper cartridges like this.
When you think about it, this type of action would be perfect for a "Hush puppy project" pistol mechanism. No moving parts during the firing (except for the striker, obviously), and still "semi-automatic-ish", unlike the Welrod which takes two hand and more time to operate… You can engage multiple targets (2 to 3) or take another quick shot if you have missed the target on the first round.
@@drivanradosivic1357 For target/bullseye shooting for competitive shooters and takedown/assassination capability for the army or secret agencies, it could work!
That is one sexy little number of a handgun. Glad you were finally able to get back to Rock Island after The Troubles. There's just one major downside to this series: every cool gun you showcase here just makes me want it in Hotdogs, Horseshoes, & Hand Grenades, and Anton is only one guy.
Did we ever figure out what went wrong between RIA and Ian? I think he called it "creative differences". Personally, I think they'd be fools not to work with him.
Ian I agree it is sleek, grips and panels impeccable checkering. The Victorian craftsmanship, and last the case hardening is just beautiful. What is not to love.
Hi, Ian. It is so interesting to find that I have an interest in steampunk pistols. Of course, they aren't steampunk, they are Victorian elites. It is only from our distance in time and the intervening steampunk style that motivates our nomenclature. But it is what it is to us, steampunk. At any rate, whatever they are called, they are an embodiment of craftsmanship, elegance, and aesthetics. Thanks for sharing! Stay healthy!
I might sound dumb but the only reason I could see them adding the checkering for the front would possibly for holding that with your other hand, kind of like how some German artillery Lugers had that front hand guard
It is more likely just for aesthetics. The grip is checkered so they did it for the covers too, is my guess. The mentioned Luger was meant to be used with a shoulderstock so the front wood is a front grip.
That's easily one of the coolest mechanisms I've seen in a long time. It's a shame there's no market for reproducing this kind of thing. So far it seems no one is willing to step outside the realm of single action revolvers and lever action rifles when it comes to historical firearms, but with modern manufacturing techniques there's no reason small production runs of unusual firearms like this couldn't be done.
I think there will be many future oppotunities to turn "By the standards of ring-trigger manually operated Austrian 1880s pistols" into a meme. I shall certainly appropriate that.
Love the channel and Ian's presentation. Fascinating video! Still blows me away that RIA would allow Ian to disassemble a 120 year old rare firearm. They must trust him implicitly.
This pistol has for the most part everything I enjoy about classic firearms. The case hardened finish is a perfect finishing touch! This looks like the main weapon of a Final Fantasy character.
Such a simple and elegant mechanism. Just what is needed, no bells and whistles, no extra complications, just efficient functionality. As straight forward as my current sidearm is, it probably has twice the moving parts, if not three times. I sometimes think our modern gunsmiths could take a page out of history and simplify things a bit.
Cool pistol and its elegant design. Thinking of the machine shop of the day Steam engine, pulleys, belts, shafts, and gears. something to see a big operation like that. Enjoyed watching Ian Take Care
You are forgetting about the lawyers. There are many things that could and would had been re-introduced, but for fear of being sued have never made it to production.
I tend to agree with you. This is one sexy handgun. The case hardening is both a useful finish and a beautiful one. Elegant lines. I wish I had all the dimensions. I would love to build one if I could find the time.
By the gods, I thought all the other pistols were beautiful! This pistol is absolutely the prettiest and the mechanism is wonderfully elegant. My goodness!
Ian 2021: "...it looks beautiful, despite my finger prints being on it." Historian 4021: "We find the finger prints of the same person on all of our historical collection. He must have been a great early 20th century General or Warlord."
Hopefully at least one gun jesus poster survives and they make the connection
Then they'll all be at the gun vatican and only the gun pope will be allowed to hold them
C'mon at RIA "recently fondled by Ian McCollum" is practically a selling point.
two thousands years from now, the gun bible will preach the ways and word of Gun Jesus.
Archeologist, 4021: "The primitives of the Silicon Age obviously had a religious ritual in which a single high-status religious official blessed one example of each and every firearm."
A 1896 Bittner in the holster
A Viper MK1 on the hip
A fancy cane sword in your hand
A big top hat on your head
...Beasts all over the shop...
...You'll be one of them, sooner or later...
Don't forget the superfluous goggles on the hat.
Perhaps a cleverly concealed Apache Knuckleduster for emergencies (inside the hat)
@@pixelcat5159 Is that a bloodborn reference?
@@ripley4601 "A corpse... should be left well alone.
Oh, I know very well. How the secrets beckon so sweetly.
Only an honest death will cure you now.
Liberate you, from your wild curiosity."
Most people: “Why not just use a revolver instead of something this complicated?”
Bittner owner: “I’m sorry, is this some sort of peasant joke I’m too rich to understand?”
Might have been patent issues.
Ha ha imagine being so poor in 1890 that you had to use a revolver :D
@@nighttrain1236 Imagine you're so poor in 2021 you have to use a revolver. Hey Yankee Marshall !!!
This is actually way simpler than typical revolvers. Probably cheaper to manufacture in the long run too.
@@rotwang2000 You're probably a hipster in 2021 if you pack a six-shooter. All the mainstreamers use plastic guns.
That is one talented gun designer. Functional, simple, elegant.
Love how simple he managed to make it. That locking lug should make it possible to safely chamber it for a pretty serious cartridge compared to the guns that relied on just your finger to keep the bolt closed.
Those are the same words I have it....Well stated.
My thoughts exactly.
I was about to type this very thing! I'd say the only improvement might be a modern style clip for the ammo. Then you'd have an ultra-simple gun with only 3 springs! I'm picturing a small, manually operated pistol with a slight nod to the style of a Škorpion 🤔
Do you think, when he was discussing this with others, he also described it as "the whole firing mechanism kind of goes sproing"?
Owner of ancient gun to everyone in the world - Look but dont touch peasants!
Owner of ancient gun to Ian - Please borrow my screwdriver, do you need any other tools?
That's the privilege you achieve when you develop Ian's level of expertise.
@@minuteman4199 precisely this. I have decent knowledge of old firearms and action types, especially having watched Ian for so long, but because of my knowledge, I wouldnt dare touch unless I was looking to buy or the owner offered.
As Gun Jesus Ian can always take care of his children.
@@TheRealColBosch what ? is there a video for that ? :)
@@thejohn6912 a lot of times he won't even try to disassemble something. He knows when to leave well enough alone in case something gets broken
Ian, the Mechanicus called, they want their Archeo Tech Pistol back.
I would love to see the reproduction gun chambered in .22LR or 9mm. That's just screams style and elegance right to one's face
.25 ACP, maybe .32, I think 9 is too much.
@@M.M.83-U a modern reproduction should be able to handle 9mm. Might need two locking lugs, but that's it.
@@ScottKenny1978 I was thinking about dimensions, not strenght.
@@M.M.83-U ah, gotcha.
With the layout of the pistol, even a .45 would be pretty flat, less than an inch wide.
I'm thinking maybe 380 or even .22 magnum but I'd love to see it in .17hmr
Can't wait to see it in the next season of The Mandalorian
Looks like something we might find in the next Fallout game
Aww yisss
This is the way.
@@RockIslandAuctionCompany this is the way
Honestly, if they got a replica of this and threw a longer scope on top, maybe a muzzle brake or laser, and sealed off the bottom to infer where the battery pack is, it would make a pretty sweet blaster
A hundred years from now there will be a separate type of collection of guns that Ian has touched.
I can’t wait until the kel tec p50 is a “forgotten weapon”
I think Ian needs a Top-hat for his collection (plus monocle).
Nah a bowler hat, goggles, leather apron, and a tool belt
@@johnnycovenant2286 I was just about to post a reply saying "nah a bowler" when I thought to check your reply first.
Ian is definitely a bowler hat person, or if in uniform, a WW1 service dress cap.
@@GARDENER42 funny enough I just said what I'd wear I read ian needs as I need
The operating system is the equivalent to designing the best buggy whip ever the same year Henry ford introduces the model T. Still a beautiful pistol.
It's actually so well designed that a high schooler could recreate it with modern machine tools from this video alone. It looks like the only thing that needs to be exactly the right size and shape is the cam hole.
@@cheyannei5983 locking lug, not the cam pin.
But yes. I'd love to see one of these reappear.
@@ScottKenny1978 i have to admit, I'm very tempted to try and replicate this myself. maybe tweak it a bit to make it work with ammunition that's more commonly available today, but I'm fairly certain that with access to a lathe and a mill, i could probably make one of these.
@@Kataclysm113 I agree, that should be it. Buy a barrel blank, though.
@@cheyannei5983 The barrel is likely by far the most difficult thing to machine right. That, and getting the right hardness of the springs.
Conceptually simple things lie that is far harder and typically require both relatively extensive knowledge as well as expensive equipment.
It's a reason a lot of backwoods guns found in China or Singaporean jungles are smooth bore. While understanding that rifling is good and to get the general concept of it is easy, putting it into practice is much harder.
Beautiful the way the springs are dovetailed into the grip frame.
And Ian's not wrong - that is a beautiful pistol, and that ring trigger system is a treat.
Now that is an exceptionally beautiful pistol. Truly an elegant weapon for a more civilized age.
I don't think obi wan would approve
Pure elegance
@@happynightmaremonster488 I agree so uncivilized
@@happynightmaremonster488 "While you were watching Forgotten Weapons, I studied the blade" - Obi-Wan Kenobi.
@@LUR1FAX Good. It's all you'll need for the stormtrooper clones carrying today's lost sidearm.
You weren't kidding when you said you were saving the best for last! Stunning piece.
A gun this elegant does not need something as vulgar as a purpose.
"Steam punk" does kinda capture the essence of this type of pistol.
Wheellocks are still the most "steampunk looking" guns in my book.
We all know that you think it looks cool because it looks suspiciously Chauchat-ish.
Gun Jesus likes guns with bellies. Probs has a pregnancy fetish.
@@hind-d3530 Don't kink shame Gun Jesus.
@@Aperson156 its still a kind of rude comment to put on an informational video about a firearm.
@@bend1707 It's a silly observation turned into a joke. I'm not sure why mentioning a fetish in jest is rude.
@@Aperson156 can't have humor in 2021
The engraving on the screws is a nice detail.
Honestly that detail is what caught my eye!
Maximum steampunk and absolutely beautiful. With wood panelling!
This would make a fine addition to "Hunt : Showdown"
My thought exactly. And it makes way more sense then the nonexistent auto-Mosin.
@@oleksii8182 The avtomat is actually based on the Huot rifle. I don't know why they've kept the mosin base for the skin.
@@s.p..smdness8748 yeah, wondered that myself. At least that one existed. Guess they were a bit lazy and did not want to render a different rifle when an existing model could be used instead.
We have levering rifles and a levering shotgun, a levering pistol is the only logical end.
@@thespecialbru with a bayonet.
I wonder how many pieces made it past Ian with him seriously considering purchasing it. His enthusiasm is always infectious, but doubly so when he finds an example he really likes.
judging by the video he did today on the clip for it, either he bought this one or liked it so much he hunted out another
Ian more than 2 million subscribers! ... you've come a long way since way back then, you give joy for years now and i thank you for that.👍😊
Thanks Ian. There are some more though like the Knower Keith-Bristol Tube fed manual repeating pistol, clair and swanstrom tube-fed autoloading pistols, francotte mechanical repeating grip-box fed pistol, mershon and hollingsworth clockwound autorevolver, kovonalov fully automatic revolver, mateba unica revolver, remington zig-zag mechanical repeating revolver pepperbox, thomas bland 6 shot double action derringer, jim march frankenruger tube-fed gas ejecting revolver, enarm pentagun gas sealing pull barrel revolver, tatarek blowforward carbine, zb-47 holek vertical-fed carbine, bayle string wallet pistol and of course my favorite.. the landstandt box fed auto-ejecting revolver.
I've been loving this series.
These manual ring pistols have a great Jules Verne steampunk vibe that I totally dig.
Guns like this are the reason I wish someone could remake the blueprints and make reproductions of these in modern cartridges.
So much of what is shared on this channel is fascinating. This series has been really interesting. I'm totally behind Ian on this pistol, a work of art on every level.
I’ve watched a ton of your videos and this is the first time I’ve seen you go full out ga ga over a piece you would actually like to own. Pretty high praise.
A guy buying this gun:
"Yes, so where do you put the coals in it?"
I was thinking a small jar of moist carbide..
It does not use Metallic Cartridges, you just change the flint.
Powered by ectoplasm. Gonna need to hold a seance.
Thought it was an ancient clothes iron
Ian is the happiest guy and I think he is one of that lucky breed that loves his job.
Incredible how much it resembles a door lock mechanism.
Awesome quality workmanship.
I shall take it on this Sunday's jaunt in my lighter-than-air balloon!
Agree a beautiful example of simplicity and function.
Oh my ... gorgeous! Just gorgeous!! You really did save the best til last Ian ... thank you so much for sharing!!! :-)
Thank you for making informational videos that I enjoy and also find very relaxing a soothing to watch when I go to bed
this looks like what the world of firearms would have looked like had the flintlock/musket style of design language stayed through the advent of smokeless black powder and cartridges.
I had discovered this cool gun a while ago but I was surprised you hadn’t done a video on it yet! I’m glad you got your hands on one to show us.
That case hardened finish is so nice. 😊
It's been a while since you posted this but I wanted to thank you for presenting us with this exquisite pistol. I've followed for many years but this piece is absolutely beautiful in it's simplicity.
One has to wonder if these designs would have gone somewhere if the invention of smokeless powder had been delayed a few decades.
Good question, but it seems like every bastard at the time was looking for a smokeless powder. The one way I can think of it happening is to move the Great War forward twenty years and the USA stays out. All Europe is bankrupt and the US thinks it should avoid military spending.
I don't think smokeless killed these so much as just the large amount of revolvers coming out before them and the development of autoloading handguns rather soon after.
Add a second locking lug to this design and you have something at least strong enough for a standard pistol cartridge of today.
The real issue is the very open action for any military setting. Where much and grime is going to get deep inside. I suppose a safety would solve that however. Carry locked and cocked and on safe.
@@tristanc3873 Although this one (surprisingly) seems to lack a safety the prior ones he has shown actually do have safeties which lock the bolt/trigger and the firing pin. You totally could carry it locked and cocked on safe. I think honestly the big thing that really killed them is just that revolvers do the exact same job and due to them already having been mass produced for nearly 50 years at this point they were just far more economical. If this design was closer to 1850 I think it really could have been viable though. Having a drop in mannlicher clip is far faster to reload than really anything but something like a moonclip on a break action revolver while also being a lighter and simpler to manufacture reloading solution. The revolvers which would compete with this functionally are a heavier and more complicated thing to produce so on its merits it makes sense. It was just too far behind the economy of scale at that point to ever really replace the revolver and with the invention of smokeless powder and autoloading handguns it was just dead in the water at that point.
Doubt it. A single or double action revolver will still be a more practical side arm.
@@tristanc3873 Smokeless made autoloaders feasible by not needing cleaning every few dozen shots
What an amazing pistol. I agree about the aesthetics, that case hardening is lovely!
Please do a video gathering information on how collectors preserve guns that'll be just stored away or sit in a display for a long time. If the collectors don't want to talk about it, maybe someone from an Institute.
Yes, seconded!
Not really my typical style of firearm of interest, but that truly is a gorgeous piece. Case hardening can produce such awesome looks, but there's something about it that looks even better when it's well-aged and has also been taken care of. Especially when coupled with such a unique design.
All of these ring fire guns have been a mix of odd and beautiful as well as elegant. I've really enjoyed a look at these as I've never really seen them and have had no exposure to them so it's been fascinating! I do enjoy these odd guns.
Fascinating series Ian!!
if only we could get some range time footage with this beauty.
I love how even the screwheads are stylised, very cool weapon
Thank you Ian for doing this series, amazing material as always.
I liked how even the outside screws had an engraved patterned on them! It may have been a more simplified version of a ring trigger pistol but it sure is more complexly designed visually!
Hey Ian, I have an odd question that I realized I never thought of until now, but how did they actually go about machining such intricate and lovely shapes and cavities in firearms back in the 19th and even 18th centuries? I couldn't imagine the method of milling even a hundred of these by hand with such accuracy and fitment. There must have been some crude form of mechanical "cnc" or something. Do you have any knowledge on the types of Mills and processes that factories or workshops would use? If so Id love to see an episode on the actual act of gunsmithing itself throughout the ages!
General outline of components was produced in the forging process. Parts were held in fixtures (Position and hold the part), and jigs (Guide the tool). Machines used included lathes, horizontal and vertical mills, shapers, broaching presses, drill presses, boring machines, and of course gun drills and rifling machines.
Repeatable accuracy relied on the use of limit stops on the machine, the dimensional consistency of the cutting tools, and extreme care in setting up, which is why tool makers and tool setters were paid what were, for the time, high wages.
Some operations could only be done on special purpose machines, or with non standard cutters, which a small shop like Bittner's would have tried to avoid, because of the expense.
Fit and finish were still largely hand processes in the 1880s, even in the big government arsenals.
webtoedman gave a very good explanation, but I'd like to add that by the 1890s basic "programming" methods for tools were already well-developed. You can do Victorian-era CNC machining. Get a movable jig, attach a few cams and gears to one axis of movement to control the sequence of its travel speed (for example high-high-low-high-stop-low-stop-low), then do the same for the other axis and lock them together with gearing. When one axis stops while the other is moving, you get a straight line in one direction. When both axes move at the same speed, you get a diagonal line. When one is moving faster than the other, you get a curve. Then you control the shaping of depth curvature by camming the cutting tool's up-down movement and lock that onto the other two axes. The cutting tool is powered by some mechanical power source, but the cam-and-gear mechanism driving the jig and tool is usually manually-driven. You just need a machinist with a bit of arm strength and stamina to crank a wheel (or two) and who has a functioning brain and working eyes to recognize quickly when something's wrong with the jig. He doesn't need to know the exact movements of the tooling setup to get the shapes needed, the tool will do it for him. All he needs to be able to do is to regularly and smoothly rotate the wheel(s) driving the jig. This ensures accuracy and repeatability.
This is why the toolmakers were very well paid. They needed to have very good engineering knowledge and a lot of intuition to set up and build such tools.
Our modern CNC machines basically function the same way but with electronics and sensors driving accuracy and repeatability. The cams that used to control curvature have been replaced by speed controls on electric motors, and those motors have replaced the machinists' steady hands.
@@andrewsuryali8540 The fundamentals of the Pratt and Whitney automatic screw machine, and many others. I love this channel, it's so civilised and erudite.
id love a modern version of this in say 32 acp. i think it would be fun to have.
I was just thinking the same thing! Wouldn't be outrageously expensive to machine, with modern cnc mills, either.
I secont this.
The action is truly elegant in its simplicity. The ring/trigger setup looks to me like a European version of 'hammer fanning'.
It's kind of a nerf gun action.
@@tamlandipper29 Truly!
Hammer Fanning, my favorite steam punk super hero.
Yeah that's likely why there is not too many of them im pretty sure that anybody that tried to go up against somebody with a single action colt who knew how to use it would get smoked like so much salmon !!!!
I can't even begin to say how much I want one of these.
I design scientific instruments and I shall go to bed thinking about how to sneak that beautiful dovetailed spring assembly into a product!
I actually have drawings for that one from the old patents, and was planning to make a replica (maybe convertible). If you had a couple of reference measurements of the real gun, I would love to use them to update my calibre- derived ones.
Where did you find the drawings?
@@steamboatmodel Friend found them at the archives in Vienna. But there is a good resolution picture of it on some russian webpage if you look for it.
If you can find the dimensions of the cartridge you should be able to work out the rest from that.
My home town museum has one of these - near mint condition at their collection. Some decades ago I happened to find out this and was really surprised to see it. It seems that somebody had donated in - but for sure it is in wrong place - the museum seems to have no clue what they have in storage or they do not see it´s value as a museum piece - it is not shown to public - and that is a shame in deed.
This is it. This is the model I’ve always imagined could have been made 1-200 years before it came out, even as a single shot, and addressed all the issues inherent to a muzzleloader. Imagine a single-shot breechloader that look paper cartridges like this.
When you think about it, this type of action would be perfect for a "Hush puppy project" pistol mechanism. No moving parts during the firing (except for the striker, obviously), and still "semi-automatic-ish", unlike the Welrod which takes two hand and more time to operate… You can engage multiple targets (2 to 3) or take another quick shot if you have missed the target on the first round.
That is actually a good idea.
lower ring actions could have their own niche in the firearms market.
@@drivanradosivic1357 For target/bullseye shooting for competitive shooters and takedown/assassination capability for the army or secret agencies, it could work!
@@MaximeThatsMe plus for those that want to feel fancy and get something like this, because it looks like fun.
I was waiting for you, to cover this pistol...
It was my favorite "free gun practice session" at gunsmith school😅
That is one sexy little number of a handgun. Glad you were finally able to get back to Rock Island after The Troubles.
There's just one major downside to this series: every cool gun you showcase here just makes me want it in Hotdogs, Horseshoes, & Hand Grenades, and Anton is only one guy.
isn't there a modding community to make up for that?
Did we ever figure out what went wrong between RIA and Ian? I think he called it "creative differences".
Personally, I think they'd be fools not to work with him.
@@cymond whay video does he mention that in? I had no clue they had a riff between em
Yeah, but anton is kinda a ass sometimes, he thinks he's the best and refuses to add guns for sole reason of their history
Definitely the Sofia Loren of the handgun world.
Really delving into TRUELY forgotten weapons for the ages
Ian I agree it is sleek, grips and panels impeccable checkering. The Victorian craftsmanship, and last the case hardening is just beautiful. What is not to love.
You weren’t lying when you said that gun is a beauty. So elegant
John Favreau is watching your show making notes on which guns to greeble into star wars blasters ...
Hi, Ian. It is so interesting to find that I have an interest in steampunk pistols. Of course, they aren't steampunk, they are Victorian elites. It is only from our distance in time and the intervening steampunk style that motivates our nomenclature. But it is what it is to us, steampunk. At any rate, whatever they are called, they are an embodiment of craftsmanship, elegance, and aesthetics. Thanks for sharing! Stay healthy!
Man, I wish there were repros of this gun, because I totally want one.
Then wish for fewer lawyers.
@@badweetabix What does that have to do with anything?
@@badweetabix I am pretty sure that the patents have expired on this one.
me too mainly cause my name is on it
Ian's clear affection to this one makes me think it deserves a GoFundme to get him one of these to give it a forever home.
Art. The piece itself gives energy of “civilisation” and “Europe” while keeping a distinct Austrian southern German feel.Class.
Just the look tell you it's not a gun for the plebes. This is the gun for a well off gentleman with impeccable taste for the good things in life.
@@blahorgaslisk7763
Yep, this is a gun for a man who LIVES.
I've really enjoyed these ring trigger reviews, they are some really interesting and absolutely gorgeous pistols
I might sound dumb but the only reason I could see them adding the checkering for the front would possibly for holding that with your other hand, kind of like how some German artillery Lugers had that front hand guard
It is more likely just for aesthetics. The grip is checkered so they did it for the covers too, is my guess. The mentioned Luger was meant to be used with a shoulderstock so the front wood is a front grip.
THAT LOOKED ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS..
Sometimes wood and metal belong....
And Wow!!!
Beautiful. Found my new carry gun. At least I'll die in style
With a .32 caliber black powder cartridge you're probably right, lol.
I don't know. The smoke cloud may allow you to escape. Though, if being stylish means not wearing sensible shoes ... you're gonna die.
@@michaelmoorrees3585 lmao
@@michaelmoorrees3585 always sensible shoes. Or flip flops. I'll run in bare feet if I have too
@@johnathansaegal3156 Cogent points, all. No matter the perforating tool, getting holes poked in oneself is never fun.
That's easily one of the coolest mechanisms I've seen in a long time. It's a shame there's no market for reproducing this kind of thing. So far it seems no one is willing to step outside the realm of single action revolvers and lever action rifles when it comes to historical firearms, but with modern manufacturing techniques there's no reason small production runs of unusual firearms like this couldn't be done.
I think there will be many future oppotunities to turn "By the standards of ring-trigger manually operated Austrian 1880s pistols" into a meme. I shall certainly appropriate that.
Love the channel and Ian's presentation. Fascinating video! Still blows me away that RIA would allow Ian to disassemble a 120 year old rare firearm. They must trust him implicitly.
Again, steam punk... I love it. Just great imagination😍
This pistol has for the most part everything I enjoy about classic firearms. The case hardened finish is a perfect finishing touch! This looks like the main weapon of a Final Fantasy character.
Beautiful piece of art/firearms/history all in one! Loving it. :?)
I love your videos on "steampunk" guns. Please do more of them.
If form and function had a baby:
Thank you for bringing some attention to these beautiful firearms.
6:15 - I believe the correct technical term is 'springen-sproingen' (with a slight German pronunciation).
Yes! And that is german tech lingo for: "Automatic self disassemble". True story.
Such a simple and elegant mechanism. Just what is needed, no bells and whistles, no extra complications, just efficient functionality. As straight forward as my current sidearm is, it probably has twice the moving parts, if not three times.
I sometimes think our modern gunsmiths could take a page out of history and simplify things a bit.
Soon to make an appearance on The Mandalorian 😁
Sadly, We have a few years to wait then.
@@davidbrennan660 we always have reruns until then
It would fit right in Carnival Row.
Cool pistol and its elegant design. Thinking of the machine shop of the day Steam engine, pulleys, belts, shafts, and gears.
something to see a big operation like that. Enjoyed watching Ian Take Care
Wow, the title is very accurate.
Ians' titles (Unlike sooo many) are acurate :-)
Ian is in love. The follow up shooting video will feature Ian with the Bittner on the range. 🤣
Love at first sight really does exist!
The case colors on that are gorgeous!
I imagine there would be profit to be made if, say, an enterprising 21st century gunsmith were to start producing functional replicas for collectors.
You are forgetting about the lawyers. There are many things that could and would had been re-introduced, but for fear of being sued have never made it to production.
I imagine it would be a lot like those handmade 45 Luger replicas: $10,000
Can't get enough of that old-timey XIX. century machining.
Pull the sideplate off a S&W revolver, and you'll see that this design is far simpler. No worry about timing, cylinder/barrel gap, hand wear, etc.
And not losing any energy out of the gap
I tend to agree with you. This is one sexy handgun. The case hardening is both a useful finish and a beautiful one. Elegant lines. I wish I had all the dimensions. I would love to build one if I could find the time.
so whose gonna start the gofundme page for buying this gun for Ian?
@@shadowcat6lives639 I mean we dont need to specify for what are we gonna fund
LOL. I was going to say the same thing, but I did a page search first to see if someone had already said it.
By the gods, I thought all the other pistols were beautiful! This pistol is absolutely the prettiest and the mechanism is wonderfully elegant. My goodness!
Does Ian's finger print increase the value of a collectible?
This gun is so beautiful.
I really want one of these chambered in .22 or something like that because I got a crap ton of .22 sitting around my house.
Would look good with your Jules Verne Time Machine
I was literally about to say I could imagine captain Nemo strapping this to his hip.
@@nolanolivier6791 The captain would wear it well
Wait, shouldn't it be H.G Wells Time Machine ?
@@MuciusSkaevola H G Wells never had that Steam Punk look which Verne had
Hello Hunt Showdown 3D artist who is watching this video to help model the gun before putting it in the game :)