FIRED! The Tragic Story of Roger Stern's Avengers (Grading the Avengers #6)
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- Опубліковано 1 гру 2020
- Arden returns to grade and review some more Avengers comics, this time focusing on a huge slew of comics written in the 1980s by Roger Stern, with art by John Buschema, John Byrne, and many others. We'll go over the valuable time spent with Monica Rambeau (Captain Marvel), She-Hulk, and Wasp. Stern also navigates the troubled issues with the Jim Shooter era and Hank Pym's character, as well as fun from every corner of Marvel ranging from Spider-Man to Kang the Conqueror!
Check out the rest of this series here: • Grading the Avengers
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Check out the rest of this series here: ua-cam.com/play/PLT4_uRPsr1jANi1CbHOEOW9qoal2QuOyS.html
Funnily enough the thumbnail cover you're using featuring Ant-Man and Hawkeye team-up against Taskmaster isn't a Roger Stern comic! Maybe you should change that to something better, like 227 with Captain Marvel, since that's his creation.
Stern's run is my favorite Avengers run, and not just because he's from my hometown. When I first got into the Avengers and began reading through the Essentials collections in the 00s, I would get on Comic Boards and would wonder why everyone was so enamored with Herc and the Black Knight, and She-Hulk and Captain Marvel. They seemed like such boring characters. Even the Wasp left me a bit cold. Then I read Stern's run and finally understood why everyone loved them. Stern's run hold up to modern sensibilities in ways that earlier writers' runs do not.
In the 1980s I liked the writing of John Byrne (Fantastic Four and Alpha Flight), Chris Claremont (X-Men and New Mutants), Roger Stern (Avengers and Doctor Strange) and Denny O'Neil (Iron Man & Daredevil). I only found Walt Simonson (Thor) recently. I was reading reprints of Stan Lee's Amazing Spider-Man but not following Stern's, which meant I missed the new costume/symbiote issue 252. I'll read them if I ever go back to Marvel online. I liked the West Coast Avengers limited series written by Stern, which is probably why I'd like to see an Avengers: West Coast movie as they rebuild the team. But I didn't like the regular series that followed written by someone else. Now that was a weird series.
A cross-over once a year was alright, but it got out of hand with Secret Wars II and Mutant Massacre so I got out of comics, not finding replacements from DC or independents. From what I read Marvel didn't respect the writers and later thought hot artists could sell the titles. Which is funny, because some titles allowed really bad artists to guest pencil, or even take it over before I left.
The Roger Stern years are my favorite Avengers comics
Ditto. But I bailed after Starfox met the Eternals. Guess how I feel about _The Eternals_ movie?
@docsavage8640. I agree with you 100%! His writing style reminded me of Stan Lee and Roy Thomas in the middle to late 1960's, but he had a style all his own! Also, John Buscema & Tom Palmer's artwork reminded me of Jack Kirby's, Don Heck's, artwork around the same time period. I particularly enjoyed the storylines when some of the public objected to Submariner joining The Avengers; The 3-Part Storyline where Kang the Conqueror fought The Avengers in Limbo; The Takeover of Avengers Mansion by the Second Baron Zemo, and his new line-up of The Masters of Evil; and although I didn't read the whole storyline, The Avengers Vs. The Greek Gods.
He was my favorite amazing spiderman writer.
Great video series, love the idea of it.
This is probably my favorite Avengers era (the Busiek/Perez one coming in second). While I don't have all of the issues, I'm happy to say that I have a fair chunk of them.
I really like the team composition, I think the characters work great with each other. A good mix of power levels. A lot of good multiparters but you can read a fair amount of single issues without feeling lost. The art is super solid, not flashy but amazing storytelling.
I did not know about the behind the scenes drama that ended Stern's run. Have to say that I'm disappointed that it was Gruenwald's decision to fire him in such a shitty matter and over such a stupid argument. Monica Rambeu is probably my favorite of these characters that aren't Cap or Thor and I'm glad Stern made her into such a capable and powerful Avenger and leader.
After she joined the Avengers, I got Amazing Spider-Man Annual 16, with her origin. I'm glad Roger stood up for her; I can see making a Black woman be an incompetent leader to make a white Captain America look good would be pretty bad. I remember her telling James Rhodes as Iron Man (whom I preferred over Tony) that she didn't want to be talked to like at a nightclub while on Battleworld and had heard Iron Man had more class.
Jim Shooter was in charge, and was making some bad decisions. I think he was responsible for the anti-writer work environment at Marvel that lost John Byrne a few years earlier.
@gabrieljimenez9762. I agree with you! The Stern/Busecema/Palmer run was my favorite run in the 1980's. Although some readers don't like Kang the Conqueror, I do, since he reminds me of a futuristic Dr. Doom (he might be a desendant of Dr. Doom and/or Reed Richards) I liked the three-part Kang the Conqueror story arc, when the second Baron Zemo & his new line-up of The Masters of Evil took over Avengers Mansion in the Story I believe was called "Avengers Mansion Under Seige," as well as the Comic Story when Namor, The Submariner first tried to join The Avengers, and met with resistance from some people. And I agree with you, that was "Dirty Pool" for Mark Gruenwald to fire Roger Stern over a silly and stupid argument! They could've reached a compromise! I remember reading in the letters page of "The Avengers Comics" page, that Roger Stern stated that he had a disagreement with the Management over the direction that Marvel wanted him to take The Avengers, and he refused. And that's why he was taken off The Avengers Comic, he didn't mention anything about being fired. He was replaced by Walter Simson. Although Simson is a great writer/artist, it's too bad. Roger Stern is one of the best Comic Book writers in the business! Who knows what direction Stern could've taken The Avengers? It was your loss Mr. Gruewald!
I've watched several of these Avengers now and the one on Jim Shooter's era was eye-opening as to what he did to female Avengers! Stern's writing of The Wasp, Captain Marvel, and She-Hulk never made me feel like women were taking over the Avengers, even when Scarlet Witch showed up with a comatose Vision, nor that they were being mistreated. As he says in many of these videos, the Avengers were fun!
I’ve been checking out more of Stern’s work( my favorite CB is Doctor Strange and Doctor Doom Triumph and Torment) and he’s easily entered my top five favorite CB. He has an excellent grasp on character. Each of them having unique dialogue to them and isn’t modern Whedon style quips. His stories can be over the top but never to where it becomes distracting. He always keeps character in mind. And his run of the Avengers for me is easily my second favorite work he’s done alongside Strange and Spider Man.
I would have given Roger Stern's tenure on "The Avengers" Comic book an A+! But I agree, I didn't care much for the characters of Starfox and Dr. Druid.
This is my one of my Favorite Avengers run and the one that got me really interested in the team while i prefer Kurt Busiek Run this run did really good without having the Big 3 all the time and is better than the Kavanagh/Heroes Reborn era 90s Avengers Run for me this is my second favorite.this run have some of my Favorite Avengers stories for example Kang Dyanty,Red Zone,Avengers Forever,The Kree Skrull War,Ultron Unlimited,The Korvac Saga,The Hydro-Base Saga,Operation:Galactic Storm also like my favorite Busiek's Avengers Run with Morrison's Justice League Run,have the luck of being Great like their competition in DC With JLI another great factor during this run is the massive shaft in the roster by introduing the spinoff team The West Coast Avengers and having Monica Rambeu as the leader of the team instead of cap though the difference between her,she hulk & Hercules and some of the other new recruits like Namor & Starfox that they are likeable and having good characther work that felt like it was missing in the original Lee/Kirby Era even though Lee & Kirby have before that With Spider-Man & Fantastic Four
8:12 Unlike many of Stern's contemporaries then or now
Yep
I am looking forward to when you go to the early 90s where the Avengers had Sersi, Vision, Black Knight, Crystal etc.
It holds a special place in my heart since that was the time I started reading Avengers as a teenager. I still have those foil embossed covers somewhere in my collection.
We had some great storylines like Operation Galactic Storm, the Sersi/Black Knight / Crystal love triangle (and the Black Knight is going to appear in the Eternals movie).
Those comics were doubleplus ungood
@@docsavage8640 It's OK with me if some people liked Marvel Comics in the '70s or '90s. I'm told Marvel lost fans in the 1990s and didn't sell to 7-Elevens and supermarkets anymore, so didn't get new readers (seed corn). So even if the Avengers were good, not enough were sold to keep Marvel from going bankrupt and selling their movie rights.
Starfox ranks among the worst? Maybe in 1984...but there have been so many lame-ass characters added to the team since then, he now looks like a classic
Bringing in new characters helps bring in new readers. I came in with Avengers 221 where they needed 2 new members (Jim Shooter, before Roger Stern) and stuck with it until ~250. Starfox was new to me and alien, but he was good-hearted. Guess who's in Eternals' end-credit scene?
Scott Lang comes along before this era.
Before Roger Stern took over, he visited for one issue to team-up with Hawkeye against Taskmaster. When you don't have your own title and aren't in a team you don't get to do much.
Hey everyone
What about his run on Spider-Man?
I liked Roger Stern on Avengers and Doctor Strange, so will have to read it the next time I do a month of Marvel Unlimited, or whatever it's called.
@@sandal_thong8631 but as I said about Roger Stern’s Spider-Man
Why are you showing All Milgrom art and talking about John Buscema?