Roger Stern's SPIDER-MAN: Unstoppable Highs & Unfinished Business
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- A retrospective and analysis of writer Roger Stern's Spider-Man run, including his early days on "Peter Parker, The Spectacular Spider-Man," his impact on "The Amazing Spider-Man" through classic stories like Nothing Can Stop the Juggernaut, and how his Hobgoblin mystery defined his run while Stern's was unable to finish his story with a proper villain reveal.
PATREON - / mattdraper
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Music:
"Chasing Yesterday" by FM-84
"Sunflower" by Swae Lee and Post Malone
"Stardust" by Hotel Pools
"warm for the winter" by middle school, Aso
"If I'm Wrong" and "Fortunes" by HOME
"Passenger" by A.L.I.S.O.N
"Gloria" and "Vampires" by The Midnight
Sources:
13thdimension.com/seeds-of-gr...
13thdimension.com/a-true-jugg...
www.cbr.com/spider-man-marria...
notahoaxnotadream.blogspot.com...
notahoaxnotadream.blogspot.com...
www.oocities.org/the_gzone/rst...
www.cbr.com/sterner-stuff-rog...
www.comicbookmovie.com/comics...
www.marvelessentials.com/featu... - Розваги
What are your thoughts on Roger Stern's Spider-Man?
Read the complete essay on Comic Book Herald: www.comicbookherald.com/spider-man-by-roger-stern-unstoppable-highs-unfinished-business/
One of the greatest runs In comics. The battle with Juggernaut was amazing and really emphasis why Peter Parker is a great Superhero.
Arguably the best run on the main title
@@levidu99 Tom DeFalco: Hold my beer.
@@mayotango1317 DeFalco's run is great too, I just sightly prefer Stern
Let's all just say that issues 224-350 are the best ASM era, or at least the most consistently good, that way everyone wins
Well it is one of my favourite era of Spider-Man
Hobgoblin is such a cool design the light blue, yellow and orange just work so well
So much better than GG imho.
For me, it’s very difficult for me to pick who would be the BEST Spider-Man writer, but Roger Stern is always what I think of when I think great Spider-Man writers.
Dang that Hobgoblin voice over was great
Thanks!
Excellent analysis, Matt! The 80s were such a tumultuous, yet exciting, time for Spider-Man and I was amazed how much Stern endured during his time at Marvel. I didn't know that he disliked Peter/Mary Jane's marriage that much! 😳
He at least seems to realize that he's in the minority with that particular opinion.
I love Roger Stern. He is one of my favourite comic book writers. I loved Nothing can stop the Juggernaut, Under Siege (my favourite Avengers storyline) and Triumph and Tragedy.
Triumph And Tragedy remains my default for Doctor Doom to this day, capturing both the overweening arrogance and the raw human hurt of the scarred man under the armor.
Roger Stern is the greatest instance of a writer whose work I admire and whose opinions I totally disagree with. A classic example of "death of the author" where the writer's instincts are completely at odds with their stated opinions. Stern may have felt Peter/MJ were incompatible but he did far more than any writer to make them compatible. It's also deeply ironic that the best Spider-Man stories Stern wrote after his run on ASM was precisely during the marriage - "Hobgoblin Lives"/"Revenge of the Green Goblin" (co-written by Paul Jenkins) - and not during BND, which were lackluster (but then again none of them are as good as his original runs on Spectacular and Amazing). Admittedly Stern's view is nuanced. IN an interview with Spider-Man Crawlspace, Stern said he didn't think Spider-Man worked with any of the classic love interests (Felicia, Gwen, MJ) and he also said after BND that he wasn't against the idea of Peter getting married in principle, just not with Mary Jane. He felt he and Mary Jane worked better as friends and he did say he liked her as a character which is why he developed her. Stern said that he had an idea for introducing a new love interest during his run who might have eventually been a woman Peter could marry but he never outlined and developed the character before leaving.
In his time at Marvel, Stern often tried to change and overhaul the love-lives of various heroes. He broke up Doctor Strange and Clea (for admittedly a justifiable reason...Clea had become a student of Strange's and Stern felt portraying a relationship in that situation was bad form) and tried to introduce a new love interest for Strange that was more compatible leading to the classic Dr. Strange story, "It's better to have Loved and Lost". He also married Johnny Storm to Alicia Masters (Ben Grimm's love interest) which was a controversial decision near-everyone felt was wrong and was ultimately retconned by Tom Defalco. Stern still thinks Johnny/Alicia was right.
So there's a real lack of awareness and irony and tension where his stated opinions are so at odds with what he actually writes.
As for Hobgoblin, everything dealing with the worldbuilding around that...i.e. Hobgoblin blackmailing Jameson and Harry Osborn and so on was great, Hobgoblin exploring and repurposing Osborn's tech including the weird RV Goblin apparently made for battle was wonderful in showing how resourceful Norman was. The problem is the poor design. How does a hack fashion designer without chemistry training reverse engineer the Green Goblin formula?
Likewise, with Norman, Lee and Ditko worked in a connection to Peter's personal life via Harry but we don't get that with Hobgoblin who is peripheral to Peter (there is that wonderful bit later during Defalco's run, where Peter David writes in Spectacular that Mary Jane worked for Kingsley's company as an entry-level model and MJ used her salary to pay Peter's rent, so Hobgoblin paid Spider-Man's bills). So the character would never have registered as well as he did. Ultimately, Venom and Carnage displaced Hobgoblin as the biggest villains since Ditko left, and then Norman returned in the late-90s and Hobgoblin who was created as a permanent replacement for Norman lost his original purpose being forever diminished.
Also the Hobgoblin design is a rip-off of Etrigan the Demon.
Okay. So it is how I thought. He just thinks that MJ is a wrong fit for Peter. Hmmm, I wonder what makes him think that Johnny and Alicia are great match? Their maturity levels don’t gel at all. She’s much more laid back and easygoing. Given Johnny’s personality, I would think that he would find her boring romantic wise.
I agree. Peter should have never married MJ. And nothing is more johnny storm than marrying the girl ben Grimm loved lol
Whoa, that's a lot of opinion. Are u really that bothered about who PP married/didn't marry?
@@cjhepburn7406 Of course. He's a fan of Spiderman.
Certainly one of the Best Spider-Man Storyline Arc. The Fight between Spider-Man versus the Juggernaut is One of the Best in Comic books History. Thousand Thanks Matt Draper.💯💯
"They didn't work as a married couple for me."
I'm gonna put some dirt in your eye
It didn't work out for Pete n MJ? I missed the part where that's my problem...
Only ONE Spiderman run needs to be talked about, in my mind: J. M. DeMatteis. Yes, he did Kraven's Last Hunt but that's just tip of the iceberg. His run is psychological horror and torment that encompasses a lot of tortured characters, including Harry Osborne and especially Vermin.
I've only just recently read all the Vermin stuff in The Child Within and Death of Vermin, and both were really really good. I can't wait until they eventually collect his run in a few of those Epic Collections or with an omnibus.
Pisses me off that those books haven't been collected. It's LONG overdue. Day it's announced I'm preordering it.
@@galactic85 same here. I love what Ive read. I'd love to read the entire thing start to finish
After Sins Past, whole magic spider bs and One More Day, no, we shouldn't.
@@mikhaelgribkov4117 Those were J. Michael Stracyzinski. Geez, keep 'em straight!
It'd be cool to see your take on spider-girl, who actually has the record of longest series of a female character at marvel with about a 100 issues
Spider-Girl is criminally underrated so I second this
Spider-Girl should be talked about more.
I purchased her What If…? Introduction issue and loved it, and collected all issues of her series. Definitely deserves more love and exposure n
I actually read more Spider-Girl growing up than regular Spider-Man. She's extremely underrated & I wish she'd come back in this new Spider-Verse era where every Spider-hero gets some kind of spotlight
One of my favourite Marvel series
Love these videos on comic book runs I don't see a lot of discussion on youtube. This and Ann Nocenti's DD run, even if they're not critically acclaimed or controversial, Matt's passion makes me want to read them
Ann Nocenti's DD was excellent. Criminally ignored.
I'd LOVE to see your take on JMS's "Spider-Man", though I imagine we'd probably disagree on it...😅
JMS' spidey to me is like Tom King's Batman. Fantastic when good, abysmal when bad, with shockingly little in between. Some writers just don't have a middle ground
@@johndavidtibbetts7320 The first 38 issues between JMS/JRJR is great and not a bad issue in that run. That's as many issues as Ditko and 10 more than Stern.
@@ElvingsMusings agreed, 100%
Then sins past happened
The JMS & JRJR era (aka the Spider-Totem Saga) is one of the greatest Spider-Man stories of all time. But the moment John Romita Jr left the book J. Micheal Straczynski went crazy.
JMS’ Run was great, until the midpoint, when editorial took over, and Spider-Man was forced to be the spokesperson for Civil War, and out himself. Joe admitted that he wasn’t keen on that direction, because it took away from the more intimate, grounded approach that he had been doing. The greatest sin of the run is, ironically, “Sin Past”. There’s no excuse for that storyline, and JMS has no one but himself to blame there. Owen loves Comics did an in depth video on it.
I love this run this was the first full run of Spider-Man I read and it remains one of the best. I only wish it would’ve been even longer 😂 great vid Matt!
That Spectacular Spider-Man Ringer issue is just a classic. Simple, straight forward, and full of action.
Remember reading this and the untold tales of Spider-man omnibus around the same time. Great runs and Kurt Busiek with untold tales gets the character the same as Stern.
Awesome video, Matt! Roger Stern is one of my favorites and it's great his run gets collected across many trades and omnibus forms. Semi-Related I find the Spectacular Spider-Man run by J.M. DeMatteis and Sal Buscema to be a criminally underrated Spider-Man run. It's one of the few Spidey runs I own all the single issues of. Love the work you do and I look forward to the next video!
The juggernaut story line is what Spider-Man is all about . I still reread that 2 issue arch all the time. Such a great run. Thanks for covering this
Roger Stern is truly one of the most comic book writers.
I'd love it if you did a video about Paul Jenkins' run. He's one of my favorites and i think he's under rated
Prior to this the only thing I really knew about the Hobgoblin was the bait and switch from Leeds to Kingsley - definitely not the 3 other identities from character that weren't even in ASM. I'm glad Stern and Hobgoblin got some closure and at least someone was happy after One More Day lmao.
As for other Spider-Man runs that'd be neat in this format, especially ones that have a revolving door of overlapping threads rather than 4-6 issue events, perhaps Brian Michael Bendis' Ultimate Spider-Man?
I'm sure covering the 1610 universe on your channel would be opening a can of worms but the reinterpretation of the characters/world and the slightly updated but nonetheless familiar Mark Bagley art style make it (imo) uniquely enaging among the otherwise inconsistent Ultimate universe.
I've thought about covering Ultimate Spider-Man for sure, it's just such a massive story that I'm not sure how to approach it. But it will definitely happen one day!
Great video. You should definitely do one on David Michelinie’s run at some point. I feel like peter was written just right during this era: a mature, married adult who still had a sense of humor, but didn’t use it as a shield. Plus, his connection to the superhero community was strengthened and on full display. Some great team ups happened here.
It’s interesting that Stern was so against Peter and MJ being married. Since you said that his run barely spotlighted Peter’s romantic life at all, I wonder if he simply wasn’t a fan of MJ as a character, or if he just felt that Peter works better being single overall. Whatever his reason, he’s just wrong. MJ is the perfect partner for Peter, because she loves him as both himself and as Spider-Man, which Black Cat never did. I never understood the love for that pairing, outside of Felicia’s sex appeal. Yeah, she has powers and can fight in battle with him, but so what? That doesn’t make her better than MJ if she can’t love and support him emotionally.
Great episode man. I actually got this omnibus recently and haven’t jump in yet. Man, I’m even more hyped for it now.
Thank you for doing the Hobgoblin Saga on this video
Given your obvious interest in Spider-man, it would be interesting to see your take on Ultimate Spider-man. For a lot of early 2000s kids (me included) that was a pretty definitive run on the character. Personally I still consider it to be the best comic interpretation of the character with the most consistency in quality, especially among the Ultimate comics. Not enough people give that series the love it deserves, despite how many elements the MCU and the ASM movie lifted from it.
This is one of the best Spider-Man story narrative by Matt Draper!
I swear, every time I go on a Draper binge, you upload a new video. I mean c’mon Matt, I just bought the Bendis DD run, now you’re making me re-read the awesome Stern run of SM too?!
Great video, Matt! Super enlightening stuff as always :)
Great job on the video Matt,Spidey is one of my all-time favorite comic heroes.I have quite a few of these issues in my storage,haven't read them in years tho.
Ditko - NOW THIS is Spider-Man!
Stern is probably my 2nd favorite Spider-Man writer only behind Conway. It doesn't hurt that Hobgoblin us my favorite villain.
Stern and JrJr’s run on Amazing is my all-time favorite! Thanks for this great video, Matt! Any chance you might take a crack at JM Dematteis and Sal Buscema’s run on Spectacular?
Sometimes passion can lead to problems, but if you give everything, you can save it. It is truly amazing
Thanks Matt for the review. Much ❤ as always 😊
I LOVE VAMPIRES! Great video Matt!
Masterful video as always! 👏👏👏
Thank you for making such an amazing get it video you deserve more subscribers never quit you will get there don't give up
In the 90's animated series they ended up making Jason Macendale the Hobgoblin instead of Roderick Kingsley.
the UA-cam recommendation algorithm gifted me this video so I’m about to binge your other stuff LOL. also love to see another fan of the midnight! taste!
Thank you, Matt. Great video.
(16:21) The mask in the river was quite creepy but awesome in the same time.
Excellent video!
Congratulations for another great video Matt! This run was first published here in Brazil in small format mixes containing even other Marvel titles and are very nostalgic to brazilian readers even with cuts, editions and altered colors because Marvel sent the original art in black and white from NY to São Paulo's Editora Abril. Best wishes from Brazil!
Roger Stern's run on Spider-Man is (IMHO) second only to Stan Lee and Steve Ditko's run. Nothing can stop the Juggernaut and The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man are my 1 and 2 favourite Spider-Man stories of all time (Include anything from Lee/Ditko run).
5:21 well, Stern succeeded in making Hobgoblin an iconic villain, so that desire in now fulfilled
Great video! Roger Stern is an awesome and hugely underrated writer.
Would be great to see u work on a video abt Paul Jenkins’ Peter Parker:The Spectacular Spider-Man
I'm so happy to hear "Vampires" as the video outro again. Great video, like usual, but that song!
Ironic how spiderman was probably written at his happiest and most stable in the 80s under stern. As you said his humor was genuine and not a coping mechanism for being unhappy
Love your channel.
I love Roger Stern’s Spider-Man. Though I love his Avengers run with John Buscema and Tom Palmer even more. Those are some damn fine superhero comics.
Shame he went to DC huh? I missed all his Supes work. Lol
Yes! This is great. I love seeing deeper dive into comics. Such an untapped genre
Thanks for another amazing video, Matt! I hope someday we will also see your take on David Michelini's run ;)
exactly the type of video I was looking for
When Matt Draper posts another Spider-Man video: Pizza Time!
Great video
wow, this was super interesting
This is one of the best spider man runs I've read and I've been meaning to read Peter David's Spectacular Spider-man which I've heard is good. The juggernaut story from this run has to be the best spidey story I've ever read. I love that anecdote about Jim Shooter drawing a few issues to show everyone how they should look. That definitely sounds like him lol.
Outstanding content! Just discovered the channel and these are the nest video essays on comic books I have ever watched. Your channel is criminally under subscribed!!!
Maybe you could do some "the comics behind the movies" essays and drive some of the movie fans to the comics that inspired them. Should help spread word for the channel too.
(6:01) (12:47) Hobgoblin. In Roger Stern's hand, Hobgoblin was Spiderman's number one villain.
Dude, that's Post Malones Sunflower! The song from the beginning and end of Spiderverse! Did anyone ever tell you, you're f🕸️ing cool? Cause you're really f🕸️ing cool!
I finished reading the omnibus on Monday, what a nice coincidence.
GOAT video
Great video! I'm definitely going to look up that juggernaut story. You should cover the Superior Foes of Spider-Man comic sometime, its such a fun read.
(17:12) That’s was true. Although many of the writers were quite great, they had a disagreement about the Hobgoblin's identity. Fortunately Roger Stern was able to fix it.
In fact, in his original story, he has already a fake Hobgoblin (AMS 245) who was doped by Winkler's gizmo, and he create Daniel Kingsley in AMS 249 (If latter writers would mess up put Hobgoblin and Kingsley together).
I’m begging the algorithm to bless your channel fr
More Spider-Man, please. You've already covered the Ditko/Lee run in a great manner with your If This Be My Destiny! Video. If you had to talk about the Romita/Lee run which story would you choose? I'm guessing it would probably be Spider-Man No More. A video about the original green goblin mistery would be cool too and the drugs trilogy is relevant in comic book history.
Return of the king
I just read the Roger Stern Spider-Man Omnibus and I was surprisingly underwhelmed. I had heard so many say it was one of the best Spider-Man runs, and, while it was good, it certainly didn't leave me feeling that way. You even admit he doesn't use the classic villains, he doesn't have many classic stories beyond the Juggernaut two parter and the unfinished mess that was the Hobgoblin. Meanwhile, I just finished The Gauntlet and loved it so much more. Classic villains, good development of Peter Parker as a man and Spider-Man as a hero. Much more enjoyable for me.
This is a wonderful video essay on my favorite Spider-Man run. I think Stern understood Peter Parker and Spider-Man the best after Lee/Ditko/Romita Sr. And I love JrJr's art.
I grew up reading Stern's run. He was not my favorite, but Stern has always had a place in my list of great Spidey writers.
Who was ur favorite? Curious Cj
I loved Stern's run on Spiderman and the Avengers.
Fascinating video, Matt! I learned a lot along the way, like that Jim Owsley, former Crazy Magazine editor, is the villain of the piece and the reason Stern left the title. No wonder Owsley adopted the pompous non de plume Christopher Priest. A LOT of Stern fans would've been looking for him at cons had we known of his culpability. Killing off Ned Leeds in a one-shot just to thwart Stern's carefully plotted story? Not cool. Stern's run was published during my 8th through 11th grade years, and I remember eagerly awaiting each issue, so it's a sentimental favorite in addition to being just great comics.
Roger Stern’s Spider-Man vs Juggernaut story and it’s sequel is one to behold given the stakes and how he tries everything to stop the juggernaut. It’s sequel was also interesting as well considering how it involves Captain Universe in an unique way.
10:49 The Juggernaut level in Spider-Man Shattered Dimensions is based on this storyline but in the game after failing to stop him for most of it the magic of Juggernaut's Ruby of Cytorrak and the Tablet of Order and Chaos cancel each other out giving Peter an opening.
I’m currently reading through this run because my dad has pretty much all the issues from it!
What a great video! Spiderman Megazine was my first experience of Spiderman-Juggernaut as well as Stern's doomed Spiderman-Black Cat run as well! I loved Marvel's Megazine line. They said it was aimed specifically at non-collectors, who wanted to read comics for enjoyment. I loved that idea!
A small correction; it was Peter David who revealed Hobgoblin to be Leeds, not Defalco. Peter David has said he thought what he did was revolutionary, as the Hobgoblin's death didn't involve a climactic, cathartic battle with Spiderman but rather revealed him as someone already murdered (in the Spiderman-Wolverine crossover). Either way, a huge mess. Although, Roger Stern resolved it BRILLIANTLY in the classic Hobgoblin Lives.
YES! New Spidey video
I never knew Stern left Spider-Man because he and the new editor didn't get along. The whole behind the scenes debacle with the Hobgoblin is one that I've done a fair bit of research on, but I don't think I've seen that mentioned before. If it was, I guess I just overlooked it. Either way, I've always wondered why Stern left before wrapping everything up and now I know why. Great video!
The fact Dan Slott can overstay his welcome past for several years on Spider-Man but Stern doesn’t get to finish his Hobgoblin Saga is a crime.
Could you please consider talking about the JMS run on amazing Spider-Man
Hey, Matt! Thank You for the vid. How about a Spidey run that’s a little offbeat & overlooked: DeMatteis’ run on Marvel Team-Up. His characterisation totally lines up with Stern’s ASM wallcrawler & you’ve got a plethora of stories to read the heck out of with different themes & tones. The hilarious Thor/Valkyrie two parter(#115 & 116), as well as his team up with the Torch (#121) that introduces Frogman & its sequel with the White Rabbit(#131), The poignant issues with the Gargoyle(#119), Daredevil (#123), the Beast(#124), The Watcher(#127) and Cap(#128 which brought Vermin into Pete’s life).
I had the comic of spiderman vs juggernout when i was a child. The best!!
I don't care what Matt makes a video on. I'm watching it!
(12:37) Tarantula looks like Baxter Stockman the fly.
The short-live influence Todd MacFarlane had on Spider-Man.
Love how well made your videos are.
I would love to see your take on Journey into Mystery by Kieron Gillen. Kid Loki became my favorite MARVEL character thanks to that series.
Excellent vid please cover jms run as well as mcfarlane
Aunt May, no good dirty landlord lol. Great video
I’d like to hear you cover Lee and Straczynski’s Amazings, Conway and DeMatteis’ Spectaculars, and Claremont/Byrne’s Team-Ups!
Would love to hear your thoughts on spider man Life Story
Is there some reason they drew Madame Web to look like Aunt May's identical twin?
The whole story behind Hobgoblin is fascinating but also bizzare and frustrating.
Does mean your making a follow up to your immortal hulk video or are you waiting till it ends in October
I find it weird that Stern is so against the pairing of Peter and MJ considering that in issue 249 of Amazing, he wrote a wonderful scene between them which despite being pretty brief, it still speaks volumes about why they're so great for each other. He also did a great job of writing their relationship in the Hobgoblin Lives miniseries.
Can you please do a video on J. Michael Straczynski's beautiful run on Spider-Man, and also talk about Issue #36.
5:24 I think all of us are now all-too familiar with nitro…
It's funny that I came to know the Hobgoblin before the Green Goblin ^^
Didn't Roger Stern say he was fired from ASM? He once told me at a store signing that he found out he was fired from the title with an answering machine voicemail message.
You should do a video on Nick Spencer's run on The Amazing Spider-Man as it help relaunch the web slinger's popularity in comics.