Is Joel Seedman Right About Range of Motion? (THE DANGERS OF EXCESSIVE ROM!)
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- Опубліковано 6 гру 2023
- Let's talk about joint range of motion! Should we avoid extreme joint angles at all costs, or is it more of a matter of "use it or lose it?"
We live in an interesting time where somebody like Joel Seedman (@dr.joelseedman9686) aka Dr. Joel the troll, can vehemently argue day in and day out that the best way to be able to achieve the task of range of motion is to avoid it at all costs. And he only gets laughed out of the room about half the time.
I'll be the first to say it would be nice if life worked this way. It would be nice if avoiding lifting heavy weights made you stronger. It would be nice if avoiding absorbing knowledge made you smarter. And it would be nice if somehow never entering a particular joint angle magically granted you the capacity to own that joint angle.
Unfortunately however that just doesn't seem to be the way that life works. When we want to gain or master a particular skill it is typically considered customary to practice that particular skill....for good reason. Skill acquisition is a function of skill practice. Physical qualities are obtained when they are practiced and trained in a progressive fashion. And things like flexibility and joint mobility are no different
As with most other physical capacities working range of motion can be progressively trained over time, starting with smaller amounts and building your way into larger and larger amounts until you eventually achieve what would effectively be the maximal range of motion that you can move a joint through.
I think it's a good idea to distinguish between "end range" and "maximal range," where end range is the current maximal range of motion that you can achieve through a particular joint on a particular motor pattern, and true maximal is the farthest that that joint can ACTUALLY move in a particular motor pattern for a particular individual. The farther that your current end range is from your potential maximal the more improvement you can obviously make.
In fact I find that pairing resistance training with Mobility training modality is a more reliable way of increasing Mobility than mobility training itself. This is because the nervous system is more likely to open up greater degrees joint freedom if it is confident that you are able to stabilize the joints in those progressively deeper and deeper joint angles, and that cannot happen unless you are strong enough to do so.
Therefore, building strength as you build length is a very reliable way to improve Mobility, and you can do this by utilizing Progressive motion training under the bar. Start with an easy load and slowly move towards a comfortable end range, and then over time as the body eases off the brakes you coax your way into deeper and deeper and ranges bit by bit.
Obviously an individual's training goals are always going to play a role in how much range of motion they require in any particular motor pattern or through any particular joint, but in a general sense I find that possessing what would we considered above average Mobility (but not quite Godlike) along with a commensurate amount of strength in those end ranges makes you stronger overall, makes you more supple overall, reduces the sensation of stiffness, and just makes you feel better in general.
And the way to achieve this is not to avoid it, but rather it is to build your way into it gradually just like with every other weight room skill.
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Full range of motion = Bulletproof overtime
Agreed!
Strength + Mobility = Coach Alec
I am so, so happy that I stuck with you even though I am a casual bodybuilder. Being a BB doesn't necessarily mean one has to sacrifice mobility. For now, I am focusing on my shoulder mobility with BTN presses. I hope you can make a video on BTN press and how to program them, bust plateaus and stuff.
Im glad to hear you've been enjoying the content man! I'll be talking more about the btn press in the future.
1:46. This is so true, I’m very mobile and I never do any sort of static stretching or mobility work. I just lift weights in deep positions, and it builds mobility. I’m trying to help my friend get in shape and he doesn’t yet have the hamstring flexibility to get into a conventional deadlift position. The thing is, he is 100 pounds at 6’2 with almost no muscle mass. So I’m having him doing hamstring curls to build up some muscle mass to allow him to build up that flexibility
Strengthening a muscle is lengthening a muscle
i missed the old Alec, welcome back :')
Very good vid.
Thanks man. Glad you enjoyed
The bit about your body opening up new ranges of motion more effectively when you develop strength and stability there is 100% on point. I remember when I first started lifting, I didn't ever deadlift. Did some lunging and light squatting but no deadlifts. Just didn't have an olympic barbell with enough weights to really do it effectively. My hamstrings were ALWAYS tight as hell...most of the time I couldn't even touch my toes. The funny part is I weighed like 145 at most and my hamstrings were probably the size of a damn chicken tender. After getting a bar with a few hundred pounds of plates, I started deadlifting regularly and I have NEVER had that level of tightness in my hamstrings again even though I'm about 60 pounds heavier now and my hamstrings are big AF. I don't even stretch much, if ever.
Motion is lotion baby. I think Joel would snap his shit if he played a sport.
True
Agreed!
Still can't get over the video of Joel flapping his hands like a bird, what the fuck was that
rapid functional pulses he calls them.
Hilarious is what it was
I’m doing those front squats off pins with pins set low. Good variation.
My second favorite squat at the moment! Second only to the Anderson version of the same lift.
Not only full rom but i have gone extra range of motion with cambered bars or machines where i set the back pad or seat height so that for ex. my machine shoulder press start at like my upper belly/lower chest; only injuried i acquired were from playing basketball and never once from 17 years of lifting
Damn Bro you are a beast.
Thanks!
Bro can you show how to have more mobility in wrist and elbows for a front squat?
Stopping a heavy weight at a partial range of motion feels so unnatural. Plus, i ain't about to add a 100 lbs of fatigue to my squat for a worse stimulus.
💯
The benefits of increasing ROM are clear, but I had a question, if you don't mind---what about in the case of previous injuries? Would things like labral surgeries or tendon damage dictate avoiding the pursuit of greater range and exercise, in your experience and opinion?
Anyway, great video as always. Delightfully concise and well-worded as ever.
I remember a video about enkiri having hip labral surgery. I've had a repair myself, and I'm okay with extreme ROM with just body weight, but I was warned about squatting with weight below parallel. And seeing how I'll never do crossfit or oly lifting, I'll just do box squats for depth. The inventor of the FAI surgery even warned about simple things like treadmills.
At the end of the day, getting injured from a exercise as opposed to an actual sport is really bad. Shoulder damage from volleyball, elbow damage from MLB pitchers, etc is sorta justified, but to get hurt in a garage just hits different.
I also wonder what he has to say for this.
If I could offer my own opinion. In a temporary sense, yes. But the goal would remain the same. The attachment point, tendon, and muscle would all need to be strengthened to a level where injury from common movement would not occur and then very slowly you could work towards expanding the ROM. Its generally the way that athletes receive physical therapy, but in the common person it's not very common to see a real "full recovery" because it takes time, patience, and money. My brother just had a reattachment of a tendon, and because of his goals he sought out a sports medicine specialized physical therapist who recommended to achieve general joint integrity prior to expanding active ROM over time.
I was speaking more about cartilage related injuries and surgeries.
@@rubenperezgarcia8137 oh if you want any information on that then just look into knees over toes guy he'll say it better than anyone else
do you think breathing exercises can help increase range of motion in areas like the shoulder? I saw some stuff relating to ribcage issues that can be resolved through breathing exercises (conor harris is the source)
Hi man, nice video! Just wondering if you know a good selection of deadlift variations that focus on strength off the floor as my conjugate max effort variation? Thanks!
Deficit is going to be the best bet. 2-3 inches tops if you want it to transfer best to a regular deadlift off the floor.
@@EnkiriElite thanks, but wouldn’t I have to change it each week? I can’t max out deficits every week surely
It's like saying I can grow a massive pair of biceps by not training biceps.
which is an argument that has been made in the past as well lol
I’m just gonna read the title and not the video and just keep doing full range bang my shit up dips thank you
Haha I'm an advocate of full rom dude!
There's always a concerned comment about Alec's shoulders or back, when what he should worry about is his nose slowly turning into a trunk from continuously making those elephant sounds. 😂
🐘 too late!
The dangers of getting fuck’n jacked.
Plus it’s just way more fun just straight up stretching haha. I’d also argue that even yoga is putting your body in positions where the stretch is loaded for the most part.
Yes, I agree much of yoga's poses involve loading to some degree or another. It really seems to be the only way to create more concrete Adaptation in terms of mobility enhancement.
0:50 and it would also be nice if 30 half reps counted as 30 full reps ;)
Yes it would!
I mean they do count as full reps if they only do the bottom half at an _acute_ degree angle...
Can’t squat below parallel. Any specific mobility you recommend
Start here: ua-cam.com/video/xsfyn_PKPcI/v-deo.htmlsi=ZG8j18TsNbSEIYrS
Then do this with a focus on sitting deeper and deeper each rep
ua-cam.com/users/shortsd4BjAvJ_PDQ?feature=share
Then go into your regular bar warm up and ramp up to your training weights. If this simple warm-up allows you to squat deeper that day, even just a little bit, then it's simply a matter of consistently performing these warm up drills several times per week and focusing on gradually building your squat depth during your training sets.
@@EnkiriElite I really appreciate you, Alec.
When people like Joel disregard actual evidence
It's easy to look at his physique and strength and disregard him.
Isn't reciprocation fun?
His posts are pretty funny, I won't lie. I'm honestly 99% sure he is trolling social media, and that it's an inside joke with his athletes.
For muscle building and longevity purposes, would it be beneficial to just do atg highbar squats rather than low bar squats? I have the capability to go atg with good technique
In my opinion, yes very much so.
Learn what morphology you have and you'll be all set with your ROM without grinding your bones together etc
overloading the limits (end ROM) is NOT worth it. especially in spinal flexion it really can lead to a disaster. Remember it will go rigth 99 times. But it's the one time it doesn't that matters. So why don't just use moderate weight and perform clean reps with progressing in ROM. Egolifting?
Your bilateral exercises aren't that meaningful. Doing unilateral exercises to the limit ROM are much more reasonable.
Can't say I agree with much of any of this comment
Joel Seedman is right about nothing.
I wouldn't say nothing. But certainly not about "90 degree joint angles" lol