Joel Siedman is producing cutting edge workouts that only a superior mind can create. The man is a genius. How dare you question his methodology! By implementing his methods i can now ride a unicycle while simultaneously juggling three 18kg kettelbells! Can your "Olympic lifting" achieve anything close to that? Thank you Joel!
"when are you ever gonna see an athlete lift a barbell in the field", when are you ever gonna see an athlete do bosu ball split squats while doing bicep curls while wearing a weighted vest and reverse bands, Kyle?
Honestly man really refreshing seeing you post random stuff regarding many different facets of fitness. I look forward to hearing more of your opinions
@@jobansand that's how he gets ya. Gives you the most awful advice for training compound movements, then when you inevitably get injured, he's got you covered.
Oh come on now! STOP BASHING SIEDMAN! Because of him I was finally able to do what I've always wanted to do. Press 180 overhead while balancing on one foot in a canoe in the middle of a lake during a storm
Naw dude Joel Seedman changed my life. I did his program of bosu ball balance presses for 6 weeks and only ended up in the ER twice. My press went up 69lbs in the process.
I have a bachelor's degree in kinesiology, and often feel I could use a refresher in biomechanics and exercise physiology...Makes you wonder where these guys get their confidence when they're rejecting decades of research lol
Also, training elite athletes (genetic outliers) does not demonstrate training or programming efficacy. These athletes will perform well despite shitty training. Oh, GOATA used Lebron James as an example of someone that moves wrong or a WOATA victim. Lebron James, the guy in literally every GOAT dispute, the only guy to win 3 NBA Titles with 3 different teams, 4 NBA MVPs, 4 NBA Finals MVPs, and the guy known as one of the most durable of all time. Yeah, sounds legit.
@awmlawoffice What he does can certainly be quantified at many levels. For instance injury. The goal of an elite athlete is to utilize the gym to improve performance and prevent injury. If Joel has that sort of info after over a decade of working with many athletes and can show the differential, then that's certainly very useful info. For instance he has data on injuries with full range squats vs 90% for his clients over the course of many years... Why isn't that useful info? Also he takes on many football players and preps then for their fitness tests Eg 220lb bench press test.. If his methods are shown to work using eccentric isometrics, stability, etc then why isn't that legit? Because it doesn't fit your biases and herd like mentality?
Hearing someone say something that is completely wrong while making it seem that they are intellectually superior drives me nuts. Dude says something stupid and follows it up with "It's that simple".
He's only wrong if you are a dork who focuses on picking out the "logical fallacies" while completely missing the point he's trying to make. It's a huge problem with modern debate. And in it you just make yourself look like a dumb ass imo.
@@jondoe2772 I didn't miss his point. I believe his point to be incorrect. If you don't think that power cleans will help a football player, or any athlete, to become more explosive then I don't know what to tell you. I also understand his point that there is a learning curve to teaching these lifts and I also believe that the payoff is worth it for an athlete. But thanks for your shitty comment, It was almost as obnoxious as the strength coach in the video.
@@zfortyounce Based off of what? You're using the most basic blanket term of explosive to say that a power clean will improve explosive performance. Prove it, prove that power cleans improve performance, you can't and that's the point.
@@zfortyounce it for sure will but if that's not your specialty and as a result don't feel comfortable attempting to teach it, but have experience with other lifts or movements that also have a carryover to improve explosivity than your going to teach what you know. Pretty simple don't teach what you don't know, that doesn't mean you can't teach and be an asset as a coach, it's just staying in your lane. A strength coach with a powerlifting background is going to teach his athletes what he knows the same way a strength coach with an Olympic lifting background is going to teach what he knows. Both will have carryover in the sense that they will improve the athletes overall athletic ability (GPP) and as a result will make them perform better on the field but it's not sport specific it won't teach them to throw or catch a ball, run, jump etc. (The intricacies of the game that only from from playing or practicing that sport) The same way playing football won't teach you the intricacies of the technical aspect of Olympic lifts. That's what he saying he's in no way trying to say that the gpp done in the gym won't make you a better all around athlete and therefore perform better on the field. This clip is taken completely out of context and I can almost guarantee there's more to go with it that would explain what he's saying better.
Following basic principles of strength training/bodybuilding has helped me more in my life “functionally” as I can actually move around and do work that others find tiring. Not to mention moving furniture, thanks deadlift! No gimmicks needed
The amount of idiots that need to be purged from high places in the fitness and nutrition industries is staggering. Thank you for being a voice of reason.
I honestly don't wanna hear FP anymore. Their biggest client, Kyle Dake, just got teched 11-0 by Belarus. All that extra special training only to get manhandled like a child
Joel Seedman sure loves eccentric isometrics. I mean, come on. How can anyone with a foundation in exercise science not find that absurd. That is literally one of the most oxymoronic concepts in fitness.
After looking up what eccentric isometrics are, isn't there a better term for it? I mean, plyometrics is kind of a garbage term when looking at the origin of the word, but it is a discrete single term. Eccentric isometrics by itself implies simultaneity of two things that can't happen at once.
@@ClayHaleslook man I didn't make up the word. Eccentrics and isometrics both happen in one répétition of an eccentric isometric. I guess that's why they called it that. But my point was that seedman took an actual researched exercise, used it wrong, and then used the data from the research to prove that his incorrectly interpreted exercise is good.
I am a strength and conditioning coach for our ice rink's hockey and figure skating programs. I always teach power cleans because of everything Zack said but also because it is one of the few lifts the athletes that I work with actually enjoy. In my experience not everyone wants to come to the gym and would rather be on the ice, so to make them look forward to being there I teach them the lift that almost everyone likes (maybe two or three people have disliked it) and can do with a little bit of training and patience. Plus they all get so excited and pumped when they can do it correctly.
Doing strenght training is so good for any sport yet it's an issue cos trainers are usually too old school and ignorant and the athletes/players are too lazy, have too much ego or are just incapable of doing anything else than core and whatever else they consider most aesthetic.
I've shown this video along with some others of the same style to most of my clients very early on in our relationship as a show of confidence in my own abilities and I recommend the same to any other trainer! It's worked wonderfully so far and it establishes good trust early
holy shit i JUST saw joel on my feed several times this past 5 days. timing of this video is great haha. the bots/fake accounts that he has comment on people that go against him are the worst part of it.
Re: That "scientism" post: Hold on now. "Scientism" is not a relevant criticism when discussing a field that is a) physical and b) obviously science based. "Scientism", philosophically, is the belief that only science can provide access to truths, and is fundamentally a logically fallacious, circular worldview, because it fails to scientifically account for the assumptions it makes (a knowable external reality independent of human minds, the validity of reason, etc). It is only relevant as it applies to "discipline surfing", i.e. making "scientific" claims about metaphysics and other fundamentally philosophical questions. It is not a valid criticism of the investigation of physical reality, because that's exactly what science is made for.
Scientism has many definitions. I've heard of your definition but I've never seen it used outside of notions of demarcation/logical positivism. In this case, it's the usual attack on evidentialism/empiricism by quakers/New Age woo-woo.
@@malchir4036 Perhaps I'm simply entrenched in the more academic side of philosophy but I've never heard it used as it was here. The implicit philosophical scientism many people unwittingly operate under is indeed fallacious but the accusation made in this video is silly. I *do* get irritated with the idea that if X thing is not in the literature then it is a stupid practice; an evidence of absence argument if you will. But making broad claims against scientific findings without the ability to discuss nuance in the merits or shortcomings of research is irrational, especially in a field that is inherently science-dependent.
@@RohannvanRensburg I would recommend the book Science Unlimited? by Maarten Boudry and Steven Pinker, where this version and other definitions are discussed, and the possible motivations behind those claims. I don't agree that science has nothing to say about metaphysics, let alone can't say anything, but I fully agree that this 'authoritarian scientism'-accusation(if I go by Haack), where science takes precedence over other methods when it comes to the natural, is just silly nonsense and actually what it's meant to be.
@@malchir4036 I'd be curious to know what you think science has to say about metaphysics, as metaphysics is inherently "categorically above" science in terms of knowledge. Thanks, I'll have a look. I did spend a lot of time in the philosophy of mind playing field which I find quite interesting, but too often I find it devolves into scientists not understanding that they're making philosophical claims rather than scientific ones. Pinker and most neuroscientists seem to do this fairly regularly.
@@RohannvanRensburg "I'd be curious to know what you think science has to say about metaphysics" Quite easy really, I'll give an example. If all our best empirical theories work without intentionality in nature, we can conclude that there most likely is no intentionality in nature. Our metaphysics and physics (should) work in unison, this idea that science and metaphysics are completely separate is based on a presupposition of an artificial barrier. Also, it's not just Pinker, also Boudry, who was my mentor(mentor as in he was the one helping me with my master's thesis, not some cult stuff) and a philosopher of science.
You had me at Chaos, I’ve heard many fitness charlatans and snake oil salesman, but I’ve never heard the word “chaos” used in a sport or fitness setting the way Joel uses it.
I'm a kinesiologist and I do implement then with a lot of my athletes and regular customers. With light weights (like 10lbs plates) they are great for volume, shoulder mobility and general motor control.
Eccentric isometric? That one got me throughout the video. Still have no clue how you would want you muscles to elongate under resistance while being static? Would like to see that!
This is about power/money pure and simple. If they are the sole and exclusive truth tellers in fitness, then they can be the fitness priesthood that everyone has to pay homage to.
Great video - I used to work in field sports strength and conditioning, before transitioning to full time powerlifting coaching, but I always kind of felt like it wasn't necessarily worth my time to teach people how to do olympic work in it's purest form. I always felt that I could get the same benefits from loaded jumps, power shrugs, and clean/snatch pulls. I know I have bias from never having done oly lifting, and it probably would be very tough for me to teach because I'd also have to learn it, but I'm curious what your thought is on the benefit of the full olympic lift vs. the partials if the end goal is improving general physical capabilities, and not the olympic lifts in isolation
Tbh there prob isn’t a huge direct benefit for any sport persay, but I think that learning a new skill like oly lifting can improve full body coordination and strength, and is something that is easy to load and measure progress on. Doing hard things is good for athletes essentially.
The football coach was actually saying that most football players don't have the time to grasp the Olympic weightlifting technique not that it won't help them on the field if they could. He said have them do lifts that are simple and don't take long to teach.
You can easily replace weightlifting power movement with dumbbells and have same results, i would argue even better since you would work both arms unilaterally. It is not about weightlifting itself but the movement with the barbell is a good simulation of a low start to a jump or a sprint involving almost all the muscles in your body. It is explosive and draining, but same can be achieved without a barbell. There is no need to hail weightlifting like Zack does to be an absolute must do... Anyone who agrees with Zack here is just riding the same train into charlatan-vile. Be mindful that past a certain level you need specific drills to keep an athlete in shape for his sport. You can not apply the logic from this video to anything other than a strength based sports.
Top level athletes will learn Olympic lifts extremely quickly because they are likely way above average when it comes to determination to learn, follow instructions and replicate complex movements etc. But it'd be interesting to hear your thoughts on training your average group of 14/15 year old high school kids, or an amateur adult, oly lifts for the purpose of improving performance in other sports. On average, they will be way less capable of doing it correctly and perhaps the cost/benefit would not be nearly the same.
I did cleans back in high school, as we didn't deadlift, but I didn't get proficient at it. I've dabbled in getting relearning the technique with broom sticks and such. Getting past 90 degrees on a squat is physically difficult for me to do free standing so I'm saving snatches for later. The main snag I'm running into the wrist part of the clean. Getting to the front rack position is difficult for me because of a lack of flexibility. I do standing overhead presses, both push and strict, with logs and a viking press attachment for a landmine and I see progress there. I have no emotional investment in ever learning clean and jerk, snatch, or power clean but it would be knowledge in my back pocket for later perhaps.
Top level athletes are also more aware of their bodies, simply because it's their job to use their body. There's a few good studies that show that muscle memory isn't specific to the exact movement you perform, meaning if you perform variations of lifts, or anything that even vaguely resembles an Olympic lift, there's some carry over. That's especially important for Olympic lifting, where technique plays such a big part. Basically, if you use your body more, you become far better at err... using your body. As for your question, i'd say it depends what your goal is. If it's for a health benefit, long term, then I'd recommend resistance exercises, especially compound movements like deadlifts and squats. Those are the ones that in the long term will have the most impact in terms of strength. If you can continue that throughout your life, progressively overloading the weight, you're far more likely to stave off issues like Sarcopenia, Arthritis etc. I'm not really sure what the Oly lifts would contribute, unless they're specific to that sport. Obviously there'd be some carry over to other movements, and obviously some strength and coordination gains, but there's potentially other exercises that would contribute more. Again though, it all depends on the sport we're talking about.
@Neil J That really helped. I messed with some cleans with an old powerlifting bar that has most of knurling dead at 95 pounds after I got done with my shoulder session and I was able to get that front rack position fairly well after the first couple ugly reps. Split jerk was predictably ugly as hell. I missed a session Tuesday due to being overly tired, and murdered my legs squatting and deadlifting heavy Wednesday so I may just head to the gym Saturday and just work on form and such.
This is fantastic. I tell all of my clients that exercise doesn't have to be complex to be effective. Squat, hinge, push, pull, lunge, rotate. Also, I wouldn't want to meet a high level olympic lifter who transitioned to football. That would be a nightmare in cleats.
He has built my athletic ability... That's how I got my 40+ inch max vertical and 25mph speed kidding, that was through traditional work. I will say one thing that those unbalanced shoulder type lifts , I personally find beneficial. Although, I think you should do more traditional lifts like ring dips and pullups, because ankle mobility and stability does make a huge difference in performance.
I know seedman is a little out there … but not soooo far off that you might call him a Scharlatan… I’m saying that with hindsight (I study this for a long time) and having read his books. Would like to see another discussion like you did with the goata people Edit: amazing content as always bro! Thank you for that!
You should absolutely call him a charlatan. I don't know if you have any formal education in this field but he very intentionally misrepresents scientific data to try to make it say things it has never said. It stuff that sounds like science to someone who isn't great at spotting BS.
Garage strength actually breaks down scientifically the problems he has with Joel, but he also gives him credit where it’s due. A lot of these other people critiquing Joel barely explain why he’s wrong and don’t give him credit where he is right.
How would you incorporate Oly lifting into sports like Parkour and Tricking as far as designing cycles to emphasize strength, power, and sports specificity?
IDK the specifics but I know Clarence Kennedy originally started training oly lifts for the sake of improving at tricking and parkour, so maybe go check out his channel and see what he did early on.
I'd look at programs for collegiate jumpers as a template: one day dedicated to the explosive work: hang cleans, push jerks, snatch hang pulls etc the rest of yr training days more basic compounds, front/back squat, rdl, good mornings, lunges, presses and rows
What is "eccentric isometrics"? Isn't "isometric" just tension without either lengthening or shortening? While "eccentric" is lengthening under tension -- IE, the negative portion of rep? - "To stimulate growth, I like to be still while moving."
Ancient geometry vortex myth Secret Fibonacci triangle primordial soup Intercontinental ring Bermuda Triangle fobidden fruit technique. I also am a fan of this hidden technique
Joel Siedman is producing cutting edge workouts that only a superior mind can create. The man is a genius. How dare you question his methodology! By implementing his methods i can now ride a unicycle while simultaneously juggling three 18kg kettelbells! Can your "Olympic lifting" achieve anything close to that? Thank you Joel!
I've always wanted to join the circus. Sign me up for that Seedman program! I think his book only costs like $300. Worth it.
Link to your IG video please, need to make sure you don't break the 90° rule
lmao😂
So he's the "Rick and Morty" copy pasta of fitness? XD
Not going to lie… Juggling kettlebells while riding a unicycle sounds like a dope Bud Jeffries video.
"when are you ever gonna see an athlete lift a barbell in the field", when are you ever gonna see an athlete do bosu ball split squats while doing bicep curls while wearing a weighted vest and reverse bands, Kyle?
Lebron does it all the time lol
Honestly. The answer to both is... Crossfit. 😆
Barbells on the field all day.
@@ryanreyes5440 the CCP lover?
“Yeah, stfu Kyle.”
@re e shit. Whether it's mj or bron, boffum bend over backwards for ccp. Except bron thinks he's a good person
If you ever feel stupid in life, remember that there are people *who take Joel Seedman seriously.*
If you ever feel stupid in life, remember that there are people who also take you seriously.
@@AllanThrawlNutHugger lmao found the Joel seedman fanboy
@@lmc5955 Nope never watched one of Seedman's videos. But Geoffrey calling out charlatans is like Donald Trump saying he has a bigly IQ
@@AllanThrawlNutHugger trolling is fun isn’t it
@@AllanThrawlNutHugger I don't remember Geoffrey claiming to have a unique skill only he can teach.
Joel Seedman: Come read this article that isn't peer reviewed.
Come read this article that I wrote based on a study that I did which definitely isnt biased
@@stearnsy4005 Aka: a blog
He also claims a study proves the opposite of what it actually finds
"and I demand to be addressed as Doctor even though I'm not a physician and have no published work"
@@mattwest2727 I mean he has a PhD, so he can refer to himself as doctor, it's just extremely narcissistic
Every time I see one of Joel’s posts I wonder if he’s not secretly trying to see how dumb he can make his athletes look and still get paid
Dude I've honestly been wondering the same thing.
And all the comments are idiots praising him
“I wonder how far I can go with this” 😹😹😹
Honestly man really refreshing seeing you post random stuff regarding many different facets of fitness. I look forward to hearing more of your opinions
Jeff Cavaliere: breathe out before you squat
Here's why bracing before you squat is killing your gains!
We all know that compressed air being ejected from the lungs helps propel the bar into the air once it makes contact with the ground.
Jeff Cavaliere: Squat 10x10, 70-80% of 1RM with 1 minute rest
His videos about injuries and stretching are pretty good.
@@jobansand that's how he gets ya. Gives you the most awful advice for training compound movements, then when you inevitably get injured, he's got you covered.
Football coaches are the embodiment of 'stong' guys who can't ATG to save their lives.
After seeing the high school football team's summer weight room workouts...can confirm.
"I used to squat 800 back in highschool then I blew out my knee" 👀😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@dariuswilliams7509 HOLY SHIT! YOU EARNED THAT BLOWOUT!
@@dariuswilliams7509 and good sir I used to be an adventurer like you then I took an arrow to the knee!
@@syncs1853 I see you a man of culture
Oh come on now! STOP BASHING SIEDMAN!
Because of him I was finally able to do what I've always wanted to do. Press 180 overhead while balancing on one foot in a canoe in the middle of a lake during a storm
but can you do that at night?
Naw dude Joel Seedman changed my life. I did his program of bosu ball balance presses for 6 weeks and only ended up in the ER twice. My press went up 69lbs in the process.
nice
What's your max gergh?
Worth it for the 69!
I have a bachelor's degree in kinesiology, and often feel I could use a refresher in biomechanics and exercise physiology...Makes you wonder where these guys get their confidence when they're rejecting decades of research lol
The 'ol Dunning-Kruger effect. Look it up.
Joel Seedman is the best fitness parody content on the web, talking Borat level. Change my mind
Also, training elite athletes (genetic outliers) does not demonstrate training or programming efficacy. These athletes will perform well despite shitty training. Oh, GOATA used Lebron James as an example of someone that moves wrong or a WOATA victim. Lebron James, the guy in literally every GOAT dispute, the only guy to win 3 NBA Titles with 3 different teams, 4 NBA MVPs, 4 NBA Finals MVPs, and the guy known as one of the most durable of all time. Yeah, sounds legit.
@awmlawoffice
What he does can certainly be quantified at many levels.
For instance injury.
The goal of an elite athlete is to utilize the gym to improve performance and prevent injury. If Joel has that sort of info after over a decade of working with many athletes and can show the differential, then that's certainly very useful info.
For instance he has data on injuries with full range squats vs 90% for his clients over the course of many years...
Why isn't that useful info?
Also he takes on many football players and preps then for their fitness tests Eg 220lb bench press test.. If his methods are shown to work using eccentric isometrics, stability, etc then why isn't that legit? Because it doesn't fit your biases and herd like mentality?
Hearing someone say something that is completely wrong while making it seem that they are intellectually superior drives me nuts.
Dude says something stupid and follows it up with "It's that simple".
He's only wrong if you are a dork who focuses on picking out the "logical fallacies" while completely missing the point he's trying to make. It's a huge problem with modern debate. And in it you just make yourself look like a dumb ass imo.
@@jondoe2772 I didn't miss his point. I believe his point to be incorrect. If you don't think that power cleans will help a football player, or any athlete, to become more explosive then I don't know what to tell you. I also understand his point that there is a learning curve to teaching these lifts and I also believe that the payoff is worth it for an athlete. But thanks for your shitty comment, It was almost as obnoxious as the strength coach in the video.
@@zfortyounce Based off of what? You're using the most basic blanket term of explosive to say that a power clean will improve explosive performance. Prove it, prove that power cleans improve performance, you can't and that's the point.
@@zfortyounce it for sure will but if that's not your specialty and as a result don't feel comfortable attempting to teach it, but have experience with other lifts or movements that also have a carryover to improve explosivity than your going to teach what you know. Pretty simple don't teach what you don't know, that doesn't mean you can't teach and be an asset as a coach, it's just staying in your lane. A strength coach with a powerlifting background is going to teach his athletes what he knows the same way a strength coach with an Olympic lifting background is going to teach what he knows. Both will have carryover in the sense that they will improve the athletes overall athletic ability (GPP) and as a result will make them perform better on the field but it's not sport specific it won't teach them to throw or catch a ball, run, jump etc. (The intricacies of the game that only from from playing or practicing that sport) The same way playing football won't teach you the intricacies of the technical aspect of Olympic lifts. That's what he saying he's in no way trying to say that the gpp done in the gym won't make you a better all around athlete and therefore perform better on the field. This clip is taken completely out of context and I can almost guarantee there's more to go with it that would explain what he's saying better.
Following basic principles of strength training/bodybuilding has helped me more in my life “functionally” as I can actually move around and do work that others find tiring. Not to mention moving furniture, thanks deadlift! No gimmicks needed
The amount of idiots that need to be purged from high places in the fitness and nutrition industries is staggering.
Thank you for being a voice of reason.
sometimes I think even Mark Rippetoe is also a charlatan....
I honestly don't wanna hear FP anymore. Their biggest client, Kyle Dake, just got teched 11-0 by Belarus. All that extra special training only to get manhandled like a child
Which is a fuckin bummer because I’m a huge fan of dake.
This will never not be relevant in fitness despite how much knowledge the general consumer base learns every year
Yo, when are you dropping a new video, man? It's been months since your last video
@@christiansoenggoro Why? He is a charlatan
@@blahinosmissingnuts5480 you’re a charlatan too
@@blahinosmissingnuts5480 convince me why he's a charlatan.
Thank you for making this video. As a coach, I'm tired of getting DM's about how revolutionary this person's shit is.
taller harry is protecting us against the dark arts
Joel Seedman sure loves eccentric isometrics. I mean, come on. How can anyone with a foundation in exercise science not find that absurd. That is literally one of the most oxymoronic concepts in fitness.
Eccentirc isometrics😂😂😂 This reminds me of a scene where a guy says he is having sex with men but he is not gay.
If you actually look up what eccentric isometrics are in the literature, you'd find that seed man's interpretation is flat out wrong.
After looking up what eccentric isometrics are, isn't there a better term for it? I mean, plyometrics is kind of a garbage term when looking at the origin of the word, but it is a discrete single term. Eccentric isometrics by itself implies simultaneity of two things that can't happen at once.
@@ClayHaleslook man I didn't make up the word. Eccentrics and isometrics both happen in one répétition of an eccentric isometric. I guess that's why they called it that.
But my point was that seedman took an actual researched exercise, used it wrong, and then used the data from the research to prove that his incorrectly interpreted exercise is good.
the Cleveland browns being confused is nothing new
Hahah
THANK YOU ZACK. Been waiting for this one.
Buddy Morris is a legend. Loved the concept of this vid. More like these!
I am a strength and conditioning coach for our ice rink's hockey and figure skating programs. I always teach power cleans because of everything Zack said but also because it is one of the few lifts the athletes that I work with actually enjoy. In my experience not everyone wants to come to the gym and would rather be on the ice, so to make them look forward to being there I teach them the lift that almost everyone likes (maybe two or three people have disliked it) and can do with a little bit of training and patience. Plus they all get so excited and pumped when they can do it correctly.
Here for you coach, and surely for the content
I'm loving alot of these new videos man
Doing strenght training is so good for any sport yet it's an issue cos trainers are usually too old school and ignorant and the athletes/players are too lazy, have too much ego or are just incapable of doing anything else than core and whatever else they consider most aesthetic.
Or coaches push the athletes too hard and they end up injured or too fatigued to perform.
@@tann_man then they need more drugs , for recovery of course.
Fantastic video man. A1 information all lifters and people into fitness need to know!
I've shown this video along with some others of the same style to most of my clients very early on in our relationship as a show of confidence in my own abilities and I recommend the same to any other trainer! It's worked wonderfully so far and it establishes good trust early
holy shit i JUST saw joel on my feed several times this past 5 days. timing of this video is great haha. the bots/fake accounts that he has comment on people that go against him are the worst part of it.
great video. well said. As soon as I spotted the word charlatan.... I was hooked. You nailed it with Aguilar.
Loving your varied video topics lately
that last clip of the seedman exercise is a HUGE injury waiting to happen
Masterfully delivered
v shred is so trust worthy and genuine bro... :)
These are some of my favorite videos
You are way nicer about this topic than Mark Rip 😂 love your videos man, producing great content
'Weaponized specificity'. I like that
Some of his suggestions are excellent need to try.
Great content! Thanks legend!
I got a V-shred ad before this video
Solid video Zack! I 💪
Great video Zack, an important video too! Good pushback to the bullshit.
Re: That "scientism" post:
Hold on now. "Scientism" is not a relevant criticism when discussing a field that is a) physical and b) obviously science based. "Scientism", philosophically, is the belief that only science can provide access to truths, and is fundamentally a logically fallacious, circular worldview, because it fails to scientifically account for the assumptions it makes (a knowable external reality independent of human minds, the validity of reason, etc). It is only relevant as it applies to "discipline surfing", i.e. making "scientific" claims about metaphysics and other fundamentally philosophical questions. It is not a valid criticism of the investigation of physical reality, because that's exactly what science is made for.
Scientism has many definitions. I've heard of your definition but I've never seen it used outside of notions of demarcation/logical positivism.
In this case, it's the usual attack on evidentialism/empiricism by quakers/New Age woo-woo.
@@malchir4036 Perhaps I'm simply entrenched in the more academic side of philosophy but I've never heard it used as it was here. The implicit philosophical scientism many people unwittingly operate under is indeed fallacious but the accusation made in this video is silly.
I *do* get irritated with the idea that if X thing is not in the literature then it is a stupid practice; an evidence of absence argument if you will. But making broad claims against scientific findings without the ability to discuss nuance in the merits or shortcomings of research is irrational, especially in a field that is inherently science-dependent.
@@RohannvanRensburg I would recommend the book Science Unlimited? by Maarten Boudry and Steven Pinker, where this version and other definitions are discussed, and the possible motivations behind those claims. I don't agree that science has nothing to say about metaphysics, let alone can't say anything, but I fully agree that this 'authoritarian scientism'-accusation(if I go by Haack), where science takes precedence over other methods when it comes to the natural, is just silly nonsense and actually what it's meant to be.
@@malchir4036 I'd be curious to know what you think science has to say about metaphysics, as metaphysics is inherently "categorically above" science in terms of knowledge.
Thanks, I'll have a look. I did spend a lot of time in the philosophy of mind playing field which I find quite interesting, but too often I find it devolves into scientists not understanding that they're making philosophical claims rather than scientific ones. Pinker and most neuroscientists seem to do this fairly regularly.
@@RohannvanRensburg "I'd be curious to know what you think science has to say about metaphysics"
Quite easy really, I'll give an example. If all our best empirical theories work without intentionality in nature, we can conclude that there most likely is no intentionality in nature. Our metaphysics and physics (should) work in unison, this idea that science and metaphysics are completely separate is based on a presupposition of an artificial barrier.
Also, it's not just Pinker, also Boudry, who was my mentor(mentor as in he was the one helping me with my master's thesis, not some cult stuff) and a philosopher of science.
You had me at Chaos, I’ve heard many fitness charlatans and snake oil salesman, but I’ve never heard the word “chaos” used in a sport or fitness setting the way Joel uses it.
Hey Zack, do a video on Lu Raises. Are they good? For non-weightlifters, could they replace lateral raises for hypertrophy+mobility reasons?
alec enkiri agrees
I'm a kinesiologist and I do implement then with a lot of my athletes and regular customers. With light weights (like 10lbs plates) they are great for volume, shoulder mobility and general motor control.
Eccentric isometric? That one got me throughout the video. Still have no clue how you would want you muscles to elongate under resistance while being static? Would like to see that!
Great video Zack
This is about power/money pure and simple. If they are the sole and exclusive truth tellers in fitness, then they can be the fitness priesthood that everyone has to pay homage to.
Here for the algorithm
Was not expecting to see clips from a Karl the Deranged video in my weightlifting content. Amazing
Great video - I used to work in field sports strength and conditioning, before transitioning to full time powerlifting coaching, but I always kind of felt like it wasn't necessarily worth my time to teach people how to do olympic work in it's purest form. I always felt that I could get the same benefits from loaded jumps, power shrugs, and clean/snatch pulls. I know I have bias from never having done oly lifting, and it probably would be very tough for me to teach because I'd also have to learn it, but I'm curious what your thought is on the benefit of the full olympic lift vs. the partials if the end goal is improving general physical capabilities, and not the olympic lifts in isolation
Tbh there prob isn’t a huge direct benefit for any sport persay, but I think that learning a new skill like oly lifting can improve full body coordination and strength, and is something that is easy to load and measure progress on. Doing hard things is good for athletes essentially.
Another enjoyable video. Keep it up.
The football coach was actually saying that most football players don't have the time to grasp the Olympic weightlifting technique not that it won't help them on the field if they could. He said have them do lifts that are simple and don't take long to teach.
Damn Zach calling out everybody
Scorched earth for everyone!
From the thumbnail I thought this was an episode of Always Sunny 😂😂
I agree 200% and i even get the context of your thought, however you cant put Buddy Morris and Joel in the same universe. ;) no joke - strong video.
How ironic that I get a V-Shreds ad right after watching this video.
02:11 in is just gold, I can only think of Billy Maddison when he speaks.
You can easily replace weightlifting power movement with dumbbells and have same results, i would argue even better since you would work both arms unilaterally. It is not about weightlifting itself but the movement with the barbell is a good simulation of a low start to a jump or a sprint involving almost all the muscles in your body. It is explosive and draining, but same can be achieved without a barbell. There is no need to hail weightlifting like Zack does to be an absolute must do... Anyone who agrees with Zack here is just riding the same train into charlatan-vile. Be mindful that past a certain level you need specific drills to keep an athlete in shape for his sport. You can not apply the logic from this video to anything other than a strength based sports.
With an elite coach, what would be the minimum amount of time to go from absolute beginner to competent in the olympic lifts?
well done Zack, (emotional slow clap)
Alright everybody coach gil goata movement
This is gonna be a good one *grabs popcorn*
Quality content
I've seen these people in the gym, and it stands out. They think people are looking in amazement... but it's awe... horrible, horrible awe.
I heard the Coach Greg "uh ZEEEEERO" from that clip.
Oh damn, we got some PRODUCTION on this one!
How to spot a charlatan:
They're named Joel.
Top level athletes will learn Olympic lifts extremely quickly because they are likely way above average when it comes to determination to learn, follow instructions and replicate complex movements etc. But it'd be interesting to hear your thoughts on training your average group of 14/15 year old high school kids, or an amateur adult, oly lifts for the purpose of improving performance in other sports. On average, they will be way less capable of doing it correctly and perhaps the cost/benefit would not be nearly the same.
I did cleans back in high school, as we didn't deadlift, but I didn't get proficient at it. I've dabbled in getting relearning the technique with broom sticks and such. Getting past 90 degrees on a squat is physically difficult for me to do free standing so I'm saving snatches for later. The main snag I'm running into the wrist part of the clean. Getting to the front rack position is difficult for me because of a lack of flexibility. I do standing overhead presses, both push and strict, with logs and a viking press attachment for a landmine and I see progress there. I have no emotional investment in ever learning clean and jerk, snatch, or power clean but it would be knowledge in my back pocket for later perhaps.
Top level athletes are also more aware of their bodies, simply because it's their job to use their body.
There's a few good studies that show that muscle memory isn't specific to the exact movement you perform, meaning if you perform variations of lifts, or anything that even vaguely resembles an Olympic lift, there's some carry over. That's especially important for Olympic lifting, where technique plays such a big part. Basically, if you use your body more, you become far better at err... using your body.
As for your question, i'd say it depends what your goal is. If it's for a health benefit, long term, then I'd recommend resistance exercises, especially compound movements like deadlifts and squats. Those are the ones that in the long term will have the most impact in terms of strength. If you can continue that throughout your life, progressively overloading the weight, you're far more likely to stave off issues like Sarcopenia, Arthritis etc.
I'm not really sure what the Oly lifts would contribute, unless they're specific to that sport. Obviously there'd be some carry over to other movements, and obviously some strength and coordination gains, but there's potentially other exercises that would contribute more. Again though, it all depends on the sport we're talking about.
@Neil J Yep. Took me ages to figure out that with my Mr Tickle arms, I need to grip a bit wider.
@Neil J ha! I'm a 29 year old Yorkshire lad mate, I wouldn't know
@Neil J That really helped. I messed with some cleans with an old powerlifting bar that has most of knurling dead at 95 pounds after I got done with my shoulder session and I was able to get that front rack position fairly well after the first couple ugly reps. Split jerk was predictably ugly as hell. I missed a session Tuesday due to being overly tired, and murdered my legs squatting and deadlifting heavy Wednesday so I may just head to the gym Saturday and just work on form and such.
functional strength, stability, mobility, power. in that order
This is fantastic. I tell all of my clients that exercise doesn't have to be complex to be effective. Squat, hinge, push, pull, lunge, rotate. Also, I wouldn't want to meet a high level olympic lifter who transitioned to football. That would be a nightmare in cleats.
Once , I had to convince a client that just because a program isn't painful to do , doesn't mean it s not affective .
@@wyattnguyen6323 same. Verbatim, "If i'm not sore, it's not a good work out" I swear, some clients WANT you to hurt them
@@MnyDmy kick them in the chin and call it a session .😂
If you cant explain it to a 5 year old you dont understand it yourself. Training is simply simple.
Yep. Couldn't agree more.
Joel Seedman is a great follow for a good laugh. GGGGUUUUUUGH! GAAAAAAGH! GUUUUUUUUUUUUGH!
My favorite thing about his articles and the references is that many of the references are from his own papers. Lots of internal reference.
@2:16 lmfao I was dying at that garbage 😂😂😂
Does more plates more dates fall in this category?
Goata explanations of how weightlifting is bad sounds like Francis E Dec
good video🙏🏽
He has built my athletic ability... That's how I got my 40+ inch max vertical and 25mph speed kidding, that was through traditional work. I will say one thing that those unbalanced shoulder type lifts , I personally find beneficial. Although, I think you should do more traditional lifts like ring dips and pullups, because ankle mobility and stability does make a huge difference in performance.
Tag team wrestling match: greg doucette and zack vs jeff cavalier and seedman
Buddy Morris is a legend
Thanks! Like the random content.
I know seedman is a little out there … but not soooo far off that you might call him a Scharlatan… I’m saying that with hindsight (I study this for a long time) and having read his books. Would like to see another discussion like you did with the goata people
Edit: amazing content as always bro! Thank you for that!
You should absolutely call him a charlatan. I don't know if you have any formal education in this field but he very intentionally misrepresents scientific data to try to make it say things it has never said. It stuff that sounds like science to someone who isn't great at spotting BS.
Garage strength actually breaks down scientifically the problems he has with Joel, but he also gives him credit where it’s due. A lot of these other people critiquing Joel barely explain why he’s wrong and don’t give him credit where he is right.
so true!
How would you incorporate Oly lifting into sports like Parkour and Tricking as far as designing cycles to emphasize strength, power, and sports specificity?
IDK the specifics but I know Clarence Kennedy originally started training oly lifts for the sake of improving at tricking and parkour, so maybe go check out his channel and see what he did early on.
Read up on the two-factor model of sports performance
I'd look at programs for collegiate jumpers as a template:
one day dedicated to the explosive work: hang cleans, push jerks, snatch hang pulls etc
the rest of yr training days more basic compounds, front/back squat, rdl, good mornings, lunges, presses and rows
@@cowboy_henk that is a very odd split for track and field. I suggest looking at better track coaches
@@Anon.G I admittedly know little about track specificity so I deferred to a collegiate level in season program for jumpers by John Cissik
Zach, what do you think of phil daru (Dustin Poirier's s&c coach)? I think he's legit but sometimes I wonder if he is a charlatan.
def need to get Marcus Filly on here next
Difference between charlatans and gurus? I’m thinking of Kelly Starrett types
Strength is very plane specific. For example, bench press strength doesn't translate to rotational movements (punching, throwing, etc).
What is "eccentric isometrics"? Isn't "isometric" just tension without either lengthening or shortening? While "eccentric" is lengthening under tension -- IE, the negative portion of rep?
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"To stimulate growth, I like to be still while moving."
Was that Jamal Browner at 3:20, tho?
We need a video: Joel reacts to Lasha
There is trap bar & hang high pull with minimum learning curve for a reason ☝️ and load heavy all the stuff they already do with mastered form.
Ancient geometry vortex myth Secret Fibonacci triangle primordial soup Intercontinental ring Bermuda Triangle fobidden fruit technique. I also am a fan of this hidden technique
This video was followed by a V Shred ad. LMAO
Zach i really hope this is because i DM'd you one of Sneedmans friends!
Getting V shred ads on this video is perfect.