I think the prices are just too strong for what you get as younger riders just aren't gonna pay 2k+ for 1990s bike when they can get a relative 2008-2011 bike for same money. The nostalgia isn't there for them.
Plus the 2008-2011 bike is more modern and will probably have fuel injection, abs and so on (and that's coming from somebody who bought an air cooled, no abs, carburated bike as his first...)
It never ceases to amaze me how, when selling a vehicle, I end up advertising it so cheaply due to no interest that it's almost like giving it away. At which point the phone rings off the hook and I find myself fending off people who when I tell them "It's sold" claim they would have "happily paid £500 more for it". But when it was £500 dearer I did not get a single call.....strange.
You are exactly correct, they only want to buy where the seller is practically giving it away for free but if it's an average or ok deal they will often times pass on by. This is one of the reasons I have stopped selling, when I sell something online I list it for a fair and honest price but if I have to come down and lose money it's just not worth it.
Someone messaged me about a road cycle I have for sale today asking is it still available and when can they see it, I replied you can come Tuesday and you won’t be disappointed, that was the last I heard 😂, unfortunately with the internet 90% of people are looking for something to buy and sell on for a profit, there are very few buyers who want things to actually use themselves.
I currently have a 1999 Triumph Sprint, and a huge downside is that I can't take it anywhere in France's Crit-Air zones. And a lot of other European towns and districts are following suit. That to me is one of the main reasons I wouldn't buy anything older than a 2000 year model. I would suggest this is why she's struggling to sell potentially? That and the ULEZ
Hi Freddie, one thing buyers should be aware of is insurance cost. Example for me, my 23 BMW R1250R £6579, a Triumph speed twin £550. My 2003 Honda CB1300 £72 fully comp for all The Honda will never be a money pit. So older bikes are a really good buy
I'm having a hard time selling a 2023 Transalp in Australia, so it's not just old bikes. I think it's a combination of factors at the moment. The economy is down, fuel prices are up, insurance is up, Facebook marketplace is full of scams, so people are buying from dealers. If i wanted to get rid of it tomorrow, I'd have to take a trade offer of only 60% of the new price. Which is a tough pill to swallow after only putting 3500km on the bike.
The used market is flat, it’s rained solidly since October (until a couple of weeks ago), the economy is not great thanks to the Tories, and for those silly enough to buy on HP interest rates are high, I just sold my absolutely immaculate BMW R9T racer, it took 3 months to sell, I had almost given up!, it’s got nothing to do with cc’s, it’s the same across the market according to several motorcycle sales persons that I know, bad weather, bad economy, poor HP terms, also bike prices were artificially inflated after covid so people are struggling to sell at anything like what they paid a couple of years back, I count myself lucky to have sold as should the person I’m buying my Triumph 1200 scrambler from this week 😂👍
It is great to hear your suggestions Freddie. Thank you so much. I will keep you posted about my next bike. I already put an ad to sell my current one.
??? That GSX1400 isn't "bucking the trend" Freddie - It hasn't sold!! It's just evidence of a deluded seller. Maybe that's a bit harsh.. Just evidence of a seller who, at 6 days listed, hasn't been exposed to the realities of the market. Why do we have to keep reminding you that these are LIST prices not SOLD prices?
Nobody is buying anything just now - theres just too much financial uncertainty at the moment. I ride, but I also play guitar. The guitar market is the same - stagnant. Nothing is selling, even the cheap stuff.
These 2nd hand bikes have no value because the market is so small. Young riders are on pcp deals or small capacity bikes. Older riders are on modern retros , superbikes or adventure bikes. So all these great middleweight or older muscle bikes have no market. Its where you find the great deals, if you have a bit of mechanical knowhow or local mechanic for those older bike issues..
Freddie, a couple of episodes ago (well, quite a lot) you mentioned my Honda SevenFifty. I'm still running it, and you are absolutely right: You can spend as much money as you spent when buying it on maintenance on these old bikes. However - I think they are special. Even a „boring“ inline four. People come up to me, admiring the classic look of the bike, oftentimes reciting memories they have with this model (or similar). I really love that. I had to change the steering head bearing recently. It would have been really expensive if I hadn’t had the courage to try to do it by myself. I think it’s almost mandatory to be able to work on bikes on your own if you have a bike of this age. My Honda dealer didn’t want to do the work for me, stating that the bike is too old and the risk of breaking something while disassembling was too much to take for them. My bike will turn 30 in 1.5 years. I really would like to do a restoration on this bike. To be still able to ride, my mind is already considering my next bike - I would love to ride (and work) on a Honda Super Blackbird. Let’s see where I‘m at 12 months from now. 😊
Right now the market is changing, basically the smaller bikes are becoming more popular again as they were in the past. Lately it seems the manufacturers have been increasing the cc size but then it's leaving gaps at the lower end of the spectrum. I'll use Kawasaki as an example, they've had their Ninja 250 for years but then updated it to 300 and then again to 400, the Ninja 500 was dropped for the 650 but now they brought back the 500 but in reality it's really a 450 and uses the same engine as the Eliminator which is 451cc so they are making the bike sound more than what it really is. I feel at 6 ft tall they will be cramped on the tiny Eliminator, the Vulcan S is a much better option with the extra room. I bought a 2013 Ninja 650 new as my first road bike and the 650 is a very good option even for a beginner, it has more than enough power so you won't get bored with it but also can be quite tame. I can easily see having a smaller bike as a 2nd or 3rd bike even if it's just for commuting or to go out for a quick ride.
Since getting my 125 I've been an eBay punter. I just placed early and low bids on bikes I would've liked to own. I now own a CBR400RR for far less than I thought I would've had to pay, with enough left over to give it a bit of a cosmetic makeover. I think that we could see prices continue to drop, at the very least until next spring/summer. But eventually a lot the bikes going cheap now, will appreciate dramatically. Partly because already you can see certain very fun engines like v4's and inline 4's being replaced by twins. Also the euro 6 emissions laws will probably keep making bikes more expensive and in many ways more boring or at least less unique as everything becomes twin cylinder, low rpm. So... If you have the space to store them and the money to buy them, acquiring the bikes that are going cheap now could be a great investment.
I must say that the Eliminator looks an amazing proposition for the money. Great looks and style. The RE Shotgun or Super Meteor may be worth a look too perhaps and they are air cooled, so there's less to go wrong on a long trip. I totally agree with you about vehicles with built in tech. It ages appallingly and you are far better off with a Quad Lock or something similar and fixing a handheld device to that, which can be easily and independently upgraded. Built in tech is a curse, not a gift I think. I am consider myself fortunate that both my Royal Enfield bikes (Classic 500 and Euro 4 Himalayan), have none of this stuff and neither does my 2004 MG TF160 sports car.
Agree with you about the Versys 1000 (ugly version) just avoid the mk 1 kwak and suzuki vstrom s as they occasionally had misaligned front and rear sprockets which made the gear changes agricultural and many Stormtroopers bought a shim from Cymarc to cure it...sweet afterwards but still a faff to deal with in the first place as the manufacturers didnt recognise it as a fault. Cured in the mk2 KLV1000 and DL1000
I have a Kawasaki Eliminator 500. It's a wonderful bike; however, I can't find tires more suitable for gravel and sandy forest roads. Previously, I had a (slow) Meteor 350 with Mitas Enduro tires, which were great on Lithuanian forest roads.
Freddy the problem living in London and the ULEZ is that motorbikes built before 2007 have to pay the £12.50 a day and that is why anyone who wants a 20 year bike won't buy them because of the ULEZ,so like myself I ride a 44 year old superdream which is exempt from ulez
Honda 250 super dreams are brilliant,I did over 40000 miles on one , totally reliable never burnt any oil never had to take the cylinder head off best £730 I spent in June 1980.
Hi Freddie. I don’t think the problem selling is only with older big cc bikes. During Covid new bikes were hard to get hold of irrespective of cc. So the prices were going through the roof of all second hand. Now the market has settled back to normal & there are loads of new bikes coming out at around the £5.5/6k price with PCP deals offering new warranted bikes for around £89 a month. I think these deals are having the biggest impact on the older bikes as people seem to be buying new at low monthly cost, with warranty & less mechanical woes. Ahhh I wrote this before I saw the end of your video. But you reiterated my point with the kawasaki eliminator. New bikes on cheap deals with full warranty and no mot’s for 3 years. So why buy older second hand. Kind regards Andrew
I looked on a MB dealer lot & was stunned by a myriad of 3 year old, low mileage, off-lease, $100k+ cars for sale for $10k - $15k. No warranty. Looked at avg maintenance & repair costs & ran screaming away. Too much "old" tech, indeed....
Far too many people have become addicted to debt, they would rather pay £100-£200 per month indefinitely on n a dealer finance (and pay several thou) than pay a fair price for a private second hand (often mint) bike. Thus dealer prices are staying high whilst private prices are tanking.
To complement the informative comments below is also the time of year. Prices rise from March onwards and level out in June, by which time every prospective motorcyclist would have purchased their bikes by then so, there’s less buyers. Prices start dropping after June. Lindas Xjr1200 was superseded by the 1300 followed by fuel-injection.
Cost and complexity of maintenance is definitely a factor, as is insurability. There is a market of willing buyers for whom there is just no market of willing insurers. Can remember seeing a 2003 F4i (a dream bike) for only £2000 with 1k on the clock, spending several days unable to even get a quote, and paying 3 times as much for a stepping stone that they would insure.
Its not just the 20+ year old vehicles that are not moving. I have struggled for 6 months to sell my 2015 Honda 1200. The bike is in lovely clean condition with around 30k on the clock and FSH. I not only initially matched the price to equivalent selling versions but dropped the price 3 times since, advertised it in 4 sperate online market places and offered help with viewings / collection. Had a few people enquire about it but they all lead to nothing as I thought it was reasonably priced and I was reluctant to lose more money with low offers. Its still advertised now but I refuse to waste any further money trying to move it on and will keep it rather than deal with drongos asking what's the best price I will take. Very strange market out there in 2024 and people more than ever want something for very little in return.
Personally I think that more than with bikes than cars the secondhand market comes down to desirability...certain models and makes will always hold value, BMW, Harley Davidson......unfortunately a UJM will not irrespective of age or condition
@@iainbaker2742 Yup....point taken but I was thinking of more like the FJ's,cb's GS's of the univeral Japanese machine..... bikes of little charachter but perform well. Incidentally I have an RD so yes I get your point!
As a child back in the 60's and early 70's we would pour over the AA European maps working out the route to various countries. It would be planned down to the last minute . However as soon as we got off the ferry at Bolognue, Dad would pretty much immediately say "oh lets go this way" and turn off.. His favourite saying "we're not lost, we're just going a different way!" But he always got us there and gave our family lifelong memories.
few months ago me and a buddy got a 1999 bmw r1100r with 45k miles for $900 1 owner in NYC The catch was mice chewed some wiring. Original owner got too frustrated with new wiring harnes. After 2 weeks of work we got it started and it has been a strong work horse ever since. Air cooled. shaft drive. As long as you can learn how to work on them they are totaly dooable.
Re the commuter/tourer - why suggest 1000cc? I commuted and toured on a CB550 Honda. It was the bike I kept the longest. The best was probably a Kawasaki Z750L - plenty of power two up camping in Europe and great handling for nipping about on. Less cumbersome to ride than the big Hondas of the time.
Being just under 30 and getting into motorcycling (finally) as I've wanted to since a young age, the barrier to entry is insane. I've got my theory test booked which is at the end of this month. I recently bought a 1995 Ducati Monster M600 for under £1500 with 11k on it, full MOT. One of two for sale in the country at the time, the other demanding over double the money with over double the mileage. I cant ride it! I havent got the license yet. And with the insurance on my 125 costing more than my car, im not hopefully ill be able to ride it this year. But i will try. I remember these bikes as a kid, nowadays when im out i mainly see bikes that are less than 5 years old. So boring. Dont want any of that crap on these new bikes.
I think the used market has fallen flat for almost all bikes in the UK, except the particularly rare or desirable. Financial struggles for so many has resulted in the used market being overloaded. When I used to look at Autotrader before COVID there were typically about 22,000-23,000 bikes for sale. Looking today there are nearly 35,000. The cheap availability of PCP finance makes more expensive bikes far more attractive totthose who just want to ride around on the newest model.
Freddy, Considering the London charges are beeing used even for electric vehicles from Dec 2025.... What is the state of play for bikes....? I can't see them getting away free.
You're spot on regarding the old German cars. You can pay 20th Century money and get a deal on purchase, but you're paying 21st Century servicing costs, and as for spare parts oh dear.
Think a lot of the second hand buyers are car owners and expect and want higher mpg from bike than car! Some can deliver thie but the lower mpg and price of fuel might be an issue.
Really enjoy all your videos, here in the USA , the used bike market here in the states is still out of hand, people are way overpriced for what they have. They're plenty for sale with no title so pretty much a parts bike unfortunately. Keep the videos coming
Hey Freddie, the main problem with the second hand "nearly classic" market is that it traditionally appealed a lot to beginners thanks to the lower prices compared to newer bikes. However, the lack of ABS and often still carbureted engines makes them less then ideal nowadays for that target group. I own a Yamaha FZS600S from 2000 for example, but that model only makes sense if you are into the carbureted charm & 90's styling, otherwise as a beginner you are much better off buying an injected & ABS equipped FZ6 from '06 for the same money. Another example is my Cagiva Raptor 1000 which I snagged for just 500 euro's, the bike just does not make sense due to it's 115hp without ABS and niche brand and thus lost it's original market and now appeals only to some enthousiasts. The XJR1200 suffers the same problem, it's heavy, carbureted and lacks ABS, it's left the sensible shoppers' market leaving only the enthousiasts to bid on it.
As a commuter I want to go under the 400cc , bike tax for category is £55, Also when you can get the last of the Himalayan 411 for £4099 on the road, unless you really want a big capacity bike and are on a tight budget, you just won't look at these
a follow on topic for you Freddie, how much technology is too much technology? As Bikers what do we need & what do we deem necessary? Also as regards to 20 year old bikes, you need to be a home mechanic as especially here in the States dealers are not interested in working on 20 year old bikes which contributes to why they are slow sellers.
It’s the same in the UK - had persistent problems with my 20 year old Bonnie - 3 different reputable mechanics and a lot of money but still breaking down with poor fuelling. Eventually I bit the bullet and took it to a local triumph dealership. As soon as they found out it was 20 years old they just said ‘no’ and gave me details of a couple of people they thought might be able to help. Apparently they don’t like to work on anything over 10 years and draw the line at 15.
@@ianbaines9705 i own a 83 Goldwing 1100 standard which actually started the carb v fuel injection debate on Freddie's channel a few months back, i have just done a full service myself to include timing belts, engine oil & filter, valve adjustment (good old screw & locknut) shaft oil, new spark plugs & coolant change all for $150 or 118 pound sterling. If you can do home maintenance then these older bikes are bargain.
@@michaelosborne4944unfortunately I have the mechanical nouse of a gnat - my hands are ‘soft’ from my day job stuck in front of a laptop. I love my bike(s) but I’m reliant on others to keep them running well. I wish I had your skills and I was glued to the rebuild of Freddie’s Bonnie by The Wurks. Oh well - one can wish…..
Freddie, don’t forget the cost of tax on those big older cars and bikes mate. Those Beemers can cost £500-600 a year on tax alone and with fuel prices the way they are…..well…..
No one is paying the money owners think they're worth. But that's right across the vehicle market - bikes and cars - the whole vehicle market here in NZ is dropping like a stone, especially these last couple of months. Things definitely are returning to pre-covid norms and I think they'll actually even overshoot and drop further. There seems to be a sudden glut of used cars appearing. Many reasons to point to - choose your favourite and it will be a contributing factor.
i am not so sure prices have settled, some things still seem too expensive 2nd hand in my opinion and i fully believe that people got used to robbing folk and refuse to admit they are now holding something they paid too much for - personal example: i remember selling my cherry red kawasaki 7r on a 98 plate for 750 quid, that was in 2009 so it was 11 years old - showroom condition super bike and i bought it new - 180mph machine. That is a reasonable price, it was a bargain but only about 350 cheaper than the rest at the time. I just looked at bmw f800 gs early models nearly 20 years old and they are 4k ish yamaha xt660z again old bike - 4k africa twin - 90s model - over 4k these are inflated prices if you ask me and it is no wonder bikes are not selling, the 1200 at the start is a beauty of a bike but it should not be getting sold for anything like 2k, 1k bike if you ask me - old, heavy, small target market - amazing machine absolutely no doubt about it which would run for 200k easily and i would love it but it comes with hidden baggage
While working for Audi in the early 2000's mobile phone connectivity was a nightmare, the rate that tech changed caused many problems, in particular Apple would just not play ball and open up it's changes so the car manufacturers fell behind, and of cause owners blamed the car not their phones!
A serious consideration with a Japanese bike over 15 years old would be spare parts supply. Parts for these bikes used to be discontinued after 10 years, so anything other than service parts are going to be hard or impossible to buy.
Worth considering that I bought a brand new bandit for £3,750 at the time so the fact one is still going for anywhere near that price so many years later is really not that bad, fail to see why that would be a future classic lol
Classic motorcycles, a term invented to create a (new) market. What they call classic motorcycles are just old motorcycles. More tech on a motorcycle is just waiting to be able to swear, what the f broke this time. The more tech the more can break down. All i have on my motorcycle is working lights. Indicators, Breaklights. A 42 year old key to turn the thing on.
you mention servicing - if you buy an old vehicle of any sort you must be able to do the work yourself. Labour costs are crazy. You saw this with your Triumph -
I just got into bikes and currently on a tmax 500 I got just for learning, why you say ? well, 500 cc is perfectly fast and being CVT auto is just really fast off the line, no gears and clutch so it really does fly off the line but it still has more than enough power. I'm currently riding it around 2 months and the improvement in my riding is amazing. The Tmax is quite surprisingly heavy and big for a scooter and I can't flat foot it due to the width of the saddle and I'm only 5ft 8 with short legs anyway. It has big storage under the seat perfect for picnic blanket, flask of tea and bottle water, and other bits and bobs. Yesterday I rode it 1.5 hrs around the countryside and it was a blast. I don't need a huge sport touring bike to do the same thing at the same speed, the Tmax I'm sure is more than capable around 90 Mph if needed. I rode a instructors CBF600 and I liked it a lot more, not the fact it was more powerful but because I found it more comfortable for my height and it handles bends a lot better and I really liked changing the gears myself. What I might do is get a CBF600 to pass the test or just use instructors bike but I really love Royal Enfields and Triumphs, they just look and sound great, I also like the Z650 RS. Honda bikes are good but boring and I hate digital screens on bikes. For anyone looking at a touring bike then the Honda NC750x is as powerful as anyone really needs and very economical and it can fit a top and side boxes and can be got with optional DCT automatic transmission. The Yamaha tmax is a good bike but grossly over priced in my opinion, the NC750 is far better value, the tmax has a lot of tech I find a major turn off. Royal Enfield are supposed to be releasing a classic 650 soon and I just might buy it as I love the look of the classic 350 but I would like the more powerful 650 because I appreciate the extra shove of the tmax 500 when on more main roads and I don't think I'd want less than that but I'd still love to test one out. As good as the Pan European bikes are and others at around 300 Kg that's just too big and heavy for me to be honest and 1300 wasting petrol when a 500 or 600 cc would do me fine or even a 750 Cruiser.
On tech, I have a Tesla and it is regularly receiving software updates, over the air and free of charge. Few, if any automakers are able to do this. For tech, Tesla is truly the gold standard. When I got my Trident 660, I didn’t get any of the Bluetooth functionality because I wanted to cruise around for leisure in the afternoons when I’ve done my long bicycle rides in the morning and so it’s time to switch off from tech.
Theres a couple of things I’ve sworn off as I can’t be bothered with them anymore; inner tubes, lightbulbs, carbs and non-ABS bikes. It might limit my choices (no vintage bikes at all for me) but with the amount of great bikes from 2015 onwards available I still have too much to be able to structure my next bike. Another thing about older bikes is that you’re never guaranteed to be able to find new parts as your experience with a fairly modern Triumph shows. So maybe it costs me another 1500 to get a newer bike. But I see better at night, feel safer, won’t have to change bloody tubes and I might even be able to resell it after I’ve ordered OEM parts from the dealership. I understand I’m in a fairly comfortable spot to be able to make that choice these days, fresh out of Uni I might have made others (and indeed I did). But back then I wouldn’t have spent a small fortune on a new modular helmet either. In regards to Tech in bikes I enjoy buying products from a company that actually does the thing. Honda I believe are on to the right idea with just sticking CarPlay in the Africa Twin/NT1100. The rest of the motorbike companies aren’t hiring the best software engineers (they work for apple/google/whatever). Same thing with cars, the best UIs are rubbish compared to your phone.
Last week i sold my 2019 triumph speed twin 1200 with 6800 miles to a dealer for £7000, which is very strong money. Considering i paid £10k for it back in 2020, and looking online i would of only got £7.5k max selling privately and dealing with "people", it was a no brainer for me. I managed to pick up a low mileage 2014 Ducati monster 1200s with full service history and every extra imaginable for £6000 privately, so im quids in. There are good deals out there, you just have to be patient and ready to pounce.
When you talk about 20 year old bikes, I think of carburetors, chokes and other unreliable stuff. For me, the most important thing of riding is.. well… riding, so not breaking down. Thus I own a Japanese’s motorcycle from 2007 and two Japanese cars. I have a company car which is not Japanese but brand new.
Hi Freddie, I’m currently selling a 1990 Gen 1 V Max 1200. I’ve had interest but it seems no one wants to leave the sofa before making silly offers. I’ve had multiple no shows, endless offers asking to knock off hundreds. Someone even asked if it had dealer service history… that’s a stretch after 34 years. Anyway, it is frustrating.
What are the operating costs, road tax, insurance, servicing, of bigger cars? Huge. But not so motorbikes. I honestly cannot fathom how big bike could have an equivalent maintenance burden. I would say it’s a style thing.
I have a mint 2003 speed triple that originally was up for 2k and after no response I dropped down to 1.7k. Still no response. I tried via we buy any bike and was offered a deal of £400 😂 I've now resigned myself to keeping it but dropping all the tax, insurance and MOT on it as due to health I can no longer ride that bike safely even just to refresh the MOT. Unfortunately it will now sit in the garage taking up space but I'd sooner that than feel like I've been mugged.
Anytime the seller wants to move the discussion outside of the platform ie: Facebook, eBay, Craigslist, etc... is a huge red flag. You really have to watch the ads online, typically the "fraudulent" dealers will advertise it for such a low price as Freddie has shown but once you enter a discussion with them you then find out the amount listed is really only for a down payment. Clicking on the sellers profile can be a good way to determine if it's real or not, look at the other items they are selling and the actual person's profile itself.
21 year old bike, the kids who remember their dads having these as kids aren’t old enough to ride them, so not buying them. Give it a few years and they’ll rise. Same with cars, you buy what you remember as kids
Nothing to do with bike complexity, they don’t have nearly the issues of cars Freddie, supply issues have normalised plus simply there are declining numbers of big bike riders in UK Freddie against more and more new bikes entering market, that XJR looks a great buy to me, JB 🏴
Sadly, i think big engine motorcycling and motorcycling in general is going the way of the dodo unless something changes. It is an absolute hurdle to get your full licence and the standard of driving on the roads is getting worse, putting people off.
Buying a bike is all about the insurance, your age, where you live and it being 5-8 years old as anything over 10 years and the congestion charge cameras get you going to the centre of town zones across the UK now.
The fact that for London these bikes will be subject to the ULEZ charge and when other towns and Cities adopt this policy could make these not so cheap to own !
Spending a lot of time watching Facebook marketplace at the moment for bikes and gear and definitely see the 125s holding their price vs larger/older bikes. Also see bike clothing and kits dropping value though - been watching an armoured shirt selling locally drop from 50-25-17 pounds - too small for me or I'd be snapping it up. I picked up a large tank bag with a waterproof cover included for £5 recently and a pair of armoured jeans and an armoured textile jacket for £30 together (jeans alone were worth that). And leathers, 2 or 1 piece are priced all over the shop - seen some (very dated 90s style) on for £1 and others all the way up to £300. Plain black leather jackets are circling the £50 mark but aren't selling (or the sellers aren't removing their listings -although I've tried a few on for size and they've been for sale for months). For new riders I'd definitely recommend saving cash by buying kit with a bit of patience - apart from helmets - even if you buy something you don't like too much but gets you on the road while you save up for something nicer/find something nicer on marketplace.
Depends what you are looking for. I just bought a 2007 Suzuki M109R from a dealer. So assuming their price at $9450 NZD is about a grand more than being sold privately, (I traded in my old M50 as I just could not be bothered trying to sell and older bike privately), that’s a hell of a lot of bike for something still sold new in the US for $15-17kUSD and a bargain basement price. I fully expect to have to pay more to keep it on the road and maintained however, but compared to a new car, there is actually very little to go wrong with it that isn’t basic spannering, not computer reprogramming.
I like the Kawasaki Eliminator. I think I might buy one. But I really love the Triumph Speed Twin 900 and 400. And, I like my current BMW F750GS, too. I need a bigger garage first.
I couldn't ride something like an xjr 1300 or similar because its a big heavy boring inline four that drinks lots of fuel I prefer my 18 reg bonnie with character and great fuel consumption ,plus the e10 fuel is a problem for older bikes,oh and my other bike is a screaming characterful street triple 765r ,I'm sure I'm not on my own with my bike choice these days
What puts me off big old bikes is that they are big. Im a relatively new ish rider. Though I have been riding for 3 years, I have only done about 8-9k miles on roads. The power puts me off and the weight of the bike puts me off. I aint going to be able to lift those lumps up. Also if I do drop it, what is the cost and availability of parts. Its why I own a ktm 390 adv currently. Parts are available and im not scared to drop it due to this.
The yam fj1200 not selling, along with other big engine one's may be down to weight & insurance group. Totally agree that tech is out of date sooooo quickly. Great podcast as ever Freddie.👍
I've just had a look at the advert, there is only one photo of it. Personally I think that is downright lazy sticking one pic up and expecting interest when other sellers have loads.
It's all down to price. You can talk all you like about causes but all they are are reasons why the price is too high. All of them are the reasons. The market is the market.
Interesting article on the bbc today about Canada being the car theft capital of the world. Demand being driven by a post covid shortage of cars. I wonder if bike theft is due to similar?
Modern engineering is fabulous and so good that IT have come up with a Ponzi scheme to force you to change. My iPhone and iPad, Garmin SatNav and my laptop (Windows 10 advertised as the last version) are all becoming less functional due to various issues…software, battery life, the list goes on. John Major was right when he said back to basics!
Hi Freddie Here in Australia BMW bikes for sale used are at any one time on bikesales site is 900, now 1700 people are just off loading bikes .Harley davidson 4500 for sale
Unfortunately a 1997 vehicle is too old to easily get spares, old enough to possibly be unreliable, competes with similar price newer vehicles, typically inefficient on fuel and can't be driven in the increasing number of LEZ/ULEZ areas.
The older bikes are for those who really "want" one. Maybe the bike they had posters on the wall of and can now buy it for a relative low price. Servicing it could mean making sure you have a good tool kit ready as the per hour serving rate at garages is getting silly now. Why do you need 1000cc plus ? My 2024 NC750x has served me well since buying it in Feb 2024. 600+ Miles on the Dave's Day 220+ miles to Margate twice 270+ miles on a recent fun ride out to Dorset last Saturday and not a single issue. Purred like a kitten and sipped petrol. Approx. 80mpg. I am not against older bikes, I'm looking for a GS160 Vespa, the scooter of my dreams back in the early 80's, and understand it will be a constant project that I will have to maintain myself. For everyday fun and commute then the new bike wins hands down. Oh, and don't get me going about INSURANCE........
Joe public can have unrealistic expectations with their cars / bikes etc. A dealer sells a bike at £8k. Your not going to get the same price but, a lot of folk think they will - completely Irrational ! The market decides the price !
I would say the "classic" market is VERY healthy indeed BUT it's very dependant on what your definition of a "classic" bIke is which can not be defined by age alone. Just look at the ridiculous prices being asked for 70's Japanese two strokes, Kawasaki Z1, Honda CB750 etc....the fact that the classic market is dominated by Japanese bikes is no coincidence either as they were the best engineered bikes of their era.
Maybe private sales are so difficult to achieve because most sellers need a cash buyer and most buyers only use cards or hire purchase to pay for their bikes so tend to stick with main dealers?
No one will fix the old bikes and the new ones are so good. CFMoto 450 MT, Aprilia 660 Tuareg, KTM 1390 Duke, Indian Chief, all the Royal Enfields, Triumph 900 Tiger (GT and Rally Pro), R1, S1000 RR, etc etc …. All too good so why have something less.
PCP, zero percent finance,fuel and insurance costs, emissions, service availability, "too heavy ...for the seller...and buyer"...all st Yup, it's all been said but having 3 big bikes potentially for sale, I'm going to have to improve them and just enjoy...and I do 👍
Market collapse - could it be that most people are only able to last one month should they loose their job? Generally, most people have no savings. On top of this, we are moving to a labour government potentially and people are probably holding on to anything they have. On top of this, it's so easy to get PCP deals for £100 a month.
Freddy. You never said how much the car tax was. And all these cheap bike won’t pass ULEZ, and there are more Ulez zones springing up. This is why they are a hard sell
Try getting spares. I could not get carb snorkels for a 2005 yamaha. No longer made. Reason I needed they were cracking and leaking air. 2nd hand ones the same. Will be scrap
Pure and simple. Things are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them. If a bike isn’t selling then it is OVERPRICED. it’s that easy.
I think the prices are just too strong for what you get as younger riders just aren't gonna pay 2k+ for 1990s bike when they can get a relative 2008-2011 bike for same money. The nostalgia isn't there for them.
Plus the 2008-2011 bike is more modern and will probably have fuel injection, abs and so on (and that's coming from somebody who bought an air cooled, no abs, carburated bike as his first...)
It never ceases to amaze me how, when selling a vehicle, I end up advertising it so cheaply due to no interest that it's almost like giving it away. At which point the phone rings off the hook and I find myself fending off people who when I tell them "It's sold" claim they would have "happily paid £500 more for it". But when it was £500 dearer I did not get a single call.....strange.
You are exactly correct, they only want to buy where the seller is practically giving it away for free but if it's an average or ok deal they will often times pass on by. This is one of the reasons I have stopped selling, when I sell something online I list it for a fair and honest price but if I have to come down and lose money it's just not worth it.
Someone messaged me about a road cycle I have for sale today asking is it still available and when can they see it, I replied you can come Tuesday and you won’t be disappointed, that was the last I heard 😂, unfortunately with the internet 90% of people are looking for something to buy and sell on for a profit, there are very few buyers who want things to actually use themselves.
Times are hard. We're in a depression. Bikes are a luxury sadly. Hope things improve. I will always but second hand.
I think it's more of a problem that there is no one to fix older bikes anymore.
I currently have a 1999 Triumph Sprint, and a huge downside is that I can't take it anywhere in France's Crit-Air zones. And a lot of other European towns and districts are following suit. That to me is one of the main reasons I wouldn't buy anything older than a 2000 year model. I would suggest this is why she's struggling to sell potentially? That and the ULEZ
Euro 3 seems to be the minimum for not potentially getting banned from riding in more and more places.
ULEZ and Crit-air schemes should not apply to motorcycles. We reduce congestion and maximise movement in a city. It's a scam.
Hi Freddie, one thing buyers should be aware of is insurance cost. Example for me, my 23 BMW R1250R £6579, a Triumph speed twin £550. My 2003 Honda CB1300 £72 fully comp for all
The Honda will never be a money pit. So older bikes are a really good buy
I'm having a hard time selling a 2023 Transalp in Australia, so it's not just old bikes. I think it's a combination of factors at the moment. The economy is down, fuel prices are up, insurance is up, Facebook marketplace is full of scams, so people are buying from dealers.
If i wanted to get rid of it tomorrow, I'd have to take a trade offer of only 60% of the new price. Which is a tough pill to swallow after only putting 3500km on the bike.
The used market is flat, it’s rained solidly since October (until a couple of weeks ago), the economy is not great thanks to the Tories, and for those silly enough to buy on HP interest rates are high, I just sold my absolutely immaculate BMW R9T racer, it took 3 months to sell, I had almost given up!, it’s got nothing to do with cc’s, it’s the same across the market according to several motorcycle sales persons that I know, bad weather, bad economy, poor HP terms, also bike prices were artificially inflated after covid so people are struggling to sell at anything like what they paid a couple of years back, I count myself lucky to have sold as should the person I’m buying my Triumph 1200 scrambler from this week 😂👍
It is great to hear your suggestions Freddie. Thank you so much. I will keep you posted about my next bike. I already put an ad to sell my current one.
20 year old BMW 630 is thirsty, expensive to insure, expensive to maintain AND £335 to tax. I expect that has something to do with the residuals.
Plus this one had what, 170k miles on the odometer? And it's not like it's a future classic, like how the 850 is now
??? That GSX1400 isn't "bucking the trend" Freddie - It hasn't sold!! It's just evidence of a deluded seller. Maybe that's a bit harsh.. Just evidence of a seller who, at 6 days listed, hasn't been exposed to the realities of the market. Why do we have to keep reminding you that these are LIST prices not SOLD prices?
Thanks for the mention Freddie - much appreciated.
Nobody is buying anything just now - theres just too much financial uncertainty at the moment. I ride, but I also play guitar. The guitar market is the same - stagnant. Nothing is selling, even the cheap stuff.
At least you can strum yourself a melancholy song.....I suggest 'Melancholy Blues' by Queen...
These 2nd hand bikes have no value because the market is so small. Young riders are on pcp deals or small capacity bikes. Older riders are on modern retros , superbikes or adventure bikes. So all these great middleweight or older muscle bikes have no market.
Its where you find the great deals, if you have a bit of mechanical knowhow or local mechanic for those older bike issues..
Freddie, a couple of episodes ago (well, quite a lot) you mentioned my Honda SevenFifty. I'm still running it, and you are absolutely right: You can spend as much money as you spent when buying it on maintenance on these old bikes. However - I think they are special. Even a „boring“ inline four. People come up to me, admiring the classic look of the bike, oftentimes reciting memories they have with this model (or similar). I really love that. I had to change the steering head bearing recently. It would have been really expensive if I hadn’t had the courage to try to do it by myself. I think it’s almost mandatory to be able to work on bikes on your own if you have a bike of this age. My Honda dealer didn’t want to do the work for me, stating that the bike is too old and the risk of breaking something while disassembling was too much to take for them. My bike will turn 30 in 1.5 years. I really would like to do a restoration on this bike. To be still able to ride, my mind is already considering my next bike - I would love to ride (and work) on a Honda Super Blackbird. Let’s see where I‘m at 12 months from now. 😊
Insurance prices are through the roof....
Right now the market is changing, basically the smaller bikes are becoming more popular again as they were in the past. Lately it seems the manufacturers have been increasing the cc size but then it's leaving gaps at the lower end of the spectrum. I'll use Kawasaki as an example, they've had their Ninja 250 for years but then updated it to 300 and then again to 400, the Ninja 500 was dropped for the 650 but now they brought back the 500 but in reality it's really a 450 and uses the same engine as the Eliminator which is 451cc so they are making the bike sound more than what it really is. I feel at 6 ft tall they will be cramped on the tiny Eliminator, the Vulcan S is a much better option with the extra room. I bought a 2013 Ninja 650 new as my first road bike and the 650 is a very good option even for a beginner, it has more than enough power so you won't get bored with it but also can be quite tame. I can easily see having a smaller bike as a 2nd or 3rd bike even if it's just for commuting or to go out for a quick ride.
The classic bike market has always fluctuated and is a bit down at the moment.
Second hand cars went up due to a chip shortage for new cars.
Since getting my 125 I've been an eBay punter. I just placed early and low bids on bikes I would've liked to own. I now own a CBR400RR for far less than I thought I would've had to pay, with enough left over to give it a bit of a cosmetic makeover.
I think that we could see prices continue to drop, at the very least until next spring/summer. But eventually a lot the bikes going cheap now, will appreciate dramatically. Partly because already you can see certain very fun engines like v4's and inline 4's being replaced by twins. Also the euro 6 emissions laws will probably keep making bikes more expensive and in many ways more boring or at least less unique as everything becomes twin cylinder, low rpm.
So... If you have the space to store them and the money to buy them, acquiring the bikes that are going cheap now could be a great investment.
I must say that the Eliminator looks an amazing proposition for the money. Great looks and style. The RE Shotgun or Super Meteor may be worth a look too perhaps and they are air cooled, so there's less to go wrong on a long trip. I totally agree with you about vehicles with built in tech. It ages appallingly and you are far better off with a Quad Lock or something similar and fixing a handheld device to that, which can be easily and independently upgraded. Built in tech is a curse, not a gift I think. I am consider myself fortunate that both my Royal Enfield bikes (Classic 500 and Euro 4 Himalayan), have none of this stuff and neither does my 2004 MG TF160 sports car.
Agree with you about the Versys 1000 (ugly version) just avoid the mk 1 kwak and suzuki vstrom s as they occasionally had misaligned front and rear sprockets which made the gear changes agricultural and many Stormtroopers bought a shim from Cymarc to cure it...sweet afterwards but still a faff to deal with in the first place as the manufacturers didnt recognise it as a fault. Cured in the mk2 KLV1000 and DL1000
I have a Kawasaki Eliminator 500. It's a wonderful bike; however, I can't find tires more suitable for gravel and sandy forest roads. Previously, I had a (slow) Meteor 350 with Mitas Enduro tires, which were great on Lithuanian forest roads.
Does anyone ever get back to you and let you know what they bought in the end ? If they do perhaps you could include that in future podcasts ?
Freddy the problem living in London and the ULEZ is that motorbikes built before 2007 have to pay the £12.50 a day and that is why anyone who wants a 20 year bike won't buy them because of the ULEZ,so like myself I ride a 44 year old superdream which is exempt from ulez
Most bikes well before that date are fine most people don't know this. You need to get confirmation from the manufacturer and send it.
Honda 250 super dreams are brilliant,I did over 40000 miles on one , totally reliable never burnt any oil never had to take the cylinder head off best £730 I spent in June 1980.
Hi Freddie. I don’t think the problem selling is only with older big cc bikes. During Covid new bikes were hard to get hold of irrespective of cc. So the prices were going through the roof of all second hand. Now the market has settled back to normal & there are loads of new bikes coming out at around the £5.5/6k price with PCP deals offering new warranted bikes for around £89 a month. I think these deals are having the biggest impact on the older bikes as people seem to be buying new at low monthly cost, with warranty & less mechanical woes. Ahhh I wrote this before I saw the end of your video. But you reiterated my point with the kawasaki eliminator. New bikes on cheap deals with full warranty and no mot’s for 3 years. So why buy older second hand. Kind regards Andrew
I looked on a MB dealer lot & was stunned by a myriad of 3 year old, low mileage, off-lease, $100k+ cars for sale for $10k - $15k. No warranty. Looked at avg maintenance & repair costs & ran screaming away. Too much "old" tech, indeed....
Far too many people have become addicted to debt, they would rather pay £100-£200 per month indefinitely on n a dealer finance (and pay several thou) than pay a fair price for a private second hand (often mint) bike. Thus dealer prices are staying high whilst private prices are tanking.
To complement the informative comments below is also the time of year.
Prices rise from March onwards and level out in June, by which time every prospective motorcyclist would have purchased their bikes by then so, there’s less buyers.
Prices start dropping after June.
Lindas Xjr1200 was superseded by the 1300 followed by fuel-injection.
Cost and complexity of maintenance is definitely a factor, as is insurability.
There is a market of willing buyers for whom there is just no market of willing insurers.
Can remember seeing a 2003 F4i (a dream bike) for only £2000 with 1k on the clock, spending several days unable to even get a quote, and paying 3 times as much for a stepping stone that they would insure.
Its not just the 20+ year old vehicles that are not moving. I have struggled for 6 months to sell my 2015 Honda 1200. The bike is in lovely clean condition with around 30k on the clock and FSH. I not only initially matched the price to equivalent selling versions but dropped the price 3 times since, advertised it in 4 sperate online market places and offered help with viewings / collection. Had a few people enquire about it but they all lead to nothing as I thought it was reasonably priced and I was reluctant to lose more money with low offers. Its still advertised now but I refuse to waste any further money trying to move it on and will keep it rather than deal with drongos asking what's the best price I will take. Very strange market out there in 2024 and people more than ever want something for very little in return.
Personally I think that more than with bikes than cars the secondhand market comes down to desirability...certain models and makes will always hold value, BMW, Harley Davidson......unfortunately a UJM will not irrespective of age or condition
Except the likes of the RD's, mk1 fireblades, or sp1 or 2, kawasaki zrx1200 or old z1000.....pretty sure there are more besides!
@@iainbaker2742 Yup....point taken but I was thinking of more like the FJ's,cb's GS's of the univeral Japanese machine..... bikes of little charachter but perform well. Incidentally I have an RD so yes I get your point!
I’ve learned so much from this guy…a very wise person
Talking of tech. Who remembers calling the AA who would give you a route plan?
As a child back in the 60's and early 70's we would pour over the AA European maps working out the route to various countries. It would be planned down to the last minute .
However as soon as we got off the ferry at Bolognue, Dad would pretty much immediately say "oh lets go this way" and turn off..
His favourite saying "we're not lost, we're just going a different way!" But he always got us there and gave our family lifelong memories.
few months ago me and a buddy got a 1999 bmw r1100r with 45k miles for $900 1 owner in NYC
The catch was mice chewed some wiring. Original owner got too frustrated with new wiring harnes. After 2 weeks of work we got it started and it has been a strong work horse ever since. Air cooled. shaft drive. As long as you can learn how to work on them they are totaly dooable.
Re the commuter/tourer - why suggest 1000cc? I commuted and toured on a CB550 Honda. It was the bike I kept the longest. The best was probably a Kawasaki Z750L - plenty of power two up camping in Europe and great handling for nipping about on. Less cumbersome to ride than the big Hondas of the time.
Being just under 30 and getting into motorcycling (finally) as I've wanted to since a young age, the barrier to entry is insane. I've got my theory test booked which is at the end of this month. I recently bought a 1995 Ducati Monster M600 for under £1500 with 11k on it, full MOT. One of two for sale in the country at the time, the other demanding over double the money with over double the mileage. I cant ride it! I havent got the license yet. And with the insurance on my 125 costing more than my car, im not hopefully ill be able to ride it this year. But i will try. I remember these bikes as a kid, nowadays when im out i mainly see bikes that are less than 5 years old. So boring. Dont want any of that crap on these new bikes.
I think the used market has fallen flat for almost all bikes in the UK, except the particularly rare or desirable. Financial struggles for so many has resulted in the used market being overloaded. When I used to look at Autotrader before COVID there were typically about 22,000-23,000 bikes for sale. Looking today there are nearly 35,000. The cheap availability of PCP finance makes more expensive bikes far more attractive totthose who just want to ride around on the newest model.
Freddy,
Considering the London charges are beeing used even for electric vehicles from Dec 2025....
What is the state of play for bikes....? I can't see them getting away free.
You're spot on regarding the old German cars. You can pay 20th Century money and get a deal on purchase, but you're paying 21st Century servicing costs, and as for spare parts oh dear.
Great ice wash. See you next Tuesday.
Think a lot of the second hand buyers are car owners and expect and want higher mpg from bike than car! Some can deliver thie but the lower mpg and price of fuel might be an issue.
Freddie hello 🎉. I love the way you break down pricing of anything bike related, Kind of jealous of your analytical mind.
I went to Halfords today to renew my 12 year old sat nav....only 2 were on display. People are now using their phone apps....
Really enjoy all your videos, here in the USA , the used bike market here in the states is still out of hand, people are way overpriced for what they have. They're plenty for sale with no title so pretty much a parts bike unfortunately. Keep the videos coming
Great podcast, enjoyed that one Freddie
Hey Freddie, the main problem with the second hand "nearly classic" market is that it traditionally appealed a lot to beginners thanks to the lower prices compared to newer bikes. However, the lack of ABS and often still carbureted engines makes them less then ideal nowadays for that target group. I own a Yamaha FZS600S from 2000 for example, but that model only makes sense if you are into the carbureted charm & 90's styling, otherwise as a beginner you are much better off buying an injected & ABS equipped FZ6 from '06 for the same money.
Another example is my Cagiva Raptor 1000 which I snagged for just 500 euro's, the bike just does not make sense due to it's 115hp without ABS and niche brand and thus lost it's original market and now appeals only to some enthousiasts. The XJR1200 suffers the same problem, it's heavy, carbureted and lacks ABS, it's left the sensible shoppers' market leaving only the enthousiasts to bid on it.
Agreed entirely. Parts for carbs are rare and the fuel wrecks the seals
As a commuter I want to go under the 400cc , bike tax for category is £55, Also when you can get the last of the Himalayan 411 for £4099 on the road, unless you really want a big capacity bike and are on a tight budget, you just won't look at these
With regard to second hand bikes…I think people want ABS, and on larger ones, traction control….thoughts…
I think you‘re right. Personally, I would never buy a motorcycle without ABS, which rules out most bikes older than ten to fifteen years out
I agree..abs is so important..
a follow on topic for you Freddie, how much technology is too much technology? As Bikers what do we need & what do we deem necessary? Also as regards to 20 year old bikes, you need to be a home mechanic as especially here in the States dealers are not interested in working on 20 year old bikes which contributes to why they are slow sellers.
It’s the same in the UK - had persistent problems with my 20 year old Bonnie - 3 different reputable mechanics and a lot of money but still breaking down with poor fuelling. Eventually I bit the bullet and took it to a local triumph dealership. As soon as they found out it was 20 years old they just said ‘no’ and gave me details of a couple of people they thought might be able to help. Apparently they don’t like to work on anything over 10 years and draw the line at 15.
@@ianbaines9705 i own a 83 Goldwing 1100 standard which actually started the carb v fuel injection debate on Freddie's channel a few months back, i have just done a full service myself to include timing belts, engine oil & filter, valve adjustment (good old screw & locknut) shaft oil, new spark plugs & coolant change all for $150 or 118 pound sterling. If you can do home maintenance then these older bikes are bargain.
@@michaelosborne4944unfortunately I have the mechanical nouse of a gnat - my hands are ‘soft’ from my day job stuck in front of a laptop. I love my bike(s) but I’m reliant on others to keep them running well. I wish I had your skills and I was glued to the rebuild of Freddie’s Bonnie by The Wurks. Oh well - one can wish…..
Freddie when you mention or recommend a bike you need to include what the mileage is and when the next Major Service is due 👍
Freddie, don’t forget the cost of tax on those big older cars and bikes mate. Those Beemers can cost £500-600 a year on tax alone and with fuel prices the way they are…..well…..
Same phenomenon (no one is buying big bikes) is happening in New Zealand
No one is paying the money owners think they're worth. But that's right across the vehicle market - bikes and cars - the whole vehicle market here in NZ is dropping like a stone, especially these last couple of months. Things definitely are returning to pre-covid norms and I think they'll actually even overshoot and drop further. There seems to be a sudden glut of used cars appearing. Many reasons to point to - choose your favourite and it will be a contributing factor.
i am not so sure prices have settled, some things still seem too expensive 2nd hand in my opinion and i fully believe that people got used to robbing folk and refuse to admit they are now holding something they paid too much for - personal example: i remember selling my cherry red kawasaki 7r on a 98 plate for 750 quid, that was in 2009 so it was 11 years old - showroom condition super bike and i bought it new - 180mph machine. That is a reasonable price, it was a bargain but only about 350 cheaper than the rest at the time.
I just looked at bmw f800 gs early models nearly 20 years old and they are 4k ish
yamaha xt660z again old bike - 4k
africa twin - 90s model - over 4k
these are inflated prices if you ask me and it is no wonder bikes are not selling, the 1200 at the start is a beauty of a bike but it should not be getting sold for anything like 2k, 1k bike if you ask me - old, heavy, small target market - amazing machine absolutely no doubt about it which would run for 200k easily and i would love it but it comes with hidden baggage
While working for Audi in the early 2000's mobile phone connectivity was a nightmare, the rate that tech changed caused many problems, in particular Apple would just not play ball and open up it's changes so the car manufacturers fell behind, and of cause owners blamed the car not their phones!
A serious consideration with a Japanese bike over 15 years old would be spare parts supply. Parts for these bikes used to be discontinued after 10 years, so anything other than service parts are going to be hard or impossible to buy.
Good point but the classic clubs, for example Yamaha FJ Owners club, will have solutions for spare parts.
Worth considering that I bought a brand new bandit for £3,750 at the time so the fact one is still going for anywhere near that price so many years later is really not that bad, fail to see why that would be a future classic lol
Classic motorcycles, a term invented to create a (new) market. What they call classic motorcycles are just old motorcycles.
More tech on a motorcycle is just waiting to be able to swear, what the f broke this time. The more tech the more can break down.
All i have on my motorcycle is working lights. Indicators, Breaklights. A 42 year old key to turn the thing on.
you mention servicing - if you buy an old vehicle of any sort you must be able to do the work yourself. Labour costs are crazy. You saw this with your Triumph -
If I'm not mistaken the Indian Scout ride out was pictured at the Red lion Wainlode Glos.
Who would have thought a 2005 BMW 630i 2 door auto coupe would be the same price as a 1.6 2005 ford focus. By now.
I’d take the Focus 10 times out of 10. It’ll start and if it doesn’t it’s fixable with parts everywhere. Also, love a Focus.
I just got into bikes and currently on a tmax 500 I got just for learning, why you say ? well, 500 cc is perfectly fast and being CVT auto is just really fast off the line, no gears and clutch so it really does fly off the line but it still has more than enough power. I'm currently riding it around 2 months and the improvement in my riding is amazing.
The Tmax is quite surprisingly heavy and big for a scooter and I can't flat foot it due to the width of the saddle and I'm only 5ft 8 with short legs anyway.
It has big storage under the seat perfect for picnic blanket, flask of tea and bottle water, and other bits and bobs.
Yesterday I rode it 1.5 hrs around the countryside and it was a blast.
I don't need a huge sport touring bike to do the same thing at the same speed, the Tmax I'm sure is more than capable around 90 Mph if needed.
I rode a instructors CBF600 and I liked it a lot more, not the fact it was more powerful but because I found it more comfortable for my height and it handles bends a lot better and I really liked changing the gears myself.
What I might do is get a CBF600 to pass the test or just use instructors bike but I really love Royal Enfields and Triumphs, they just look and sound great, I also like the Z650 RS.
Honda bikes are good but boring and I hate digital screens on bikes.
For anyone looking at a touring bike then the Honda NC750x is as powerful as anyone really needs and very economical and it can fit a top and side boxes and can be got with optional DCT automatic transmission.
The Yamaha tmax is a good bike but grossly over priced in my opinion, the NC750 is far better value, the tmax has a lot of tech I find a major turn off.
Royal Enfield are supposed to be releasing a classic 650 soon and I just might buy it as I love the look of the classic 350 but I would like the more powerful 650 because I appreciate the extra shove of the tmax 500 when on more main roads and I don't think I'd want less than that but I'd still love to test one out.
As good as the Pan European bikes are and others at around 300 Kg that's just too big and heavy for me to be honest and 1300 wasting petrol when a 500 or 600 cc would do me fine or even a 750 Cruiser.
On tech, I have a Tesla and it is regularly receiving software updates, over the air and free of charge. Few, if any automakers are able to do this. For tech, Tesla is truly the gold standard.
When I got my Trident 660, I didn’t get any of the Bluetooth functionality because I wanted to cruise around for leisure in the afternoons when I’ve done my long bicycle rides in the morning and so it’s time to switch off from tech.
Theres a couple of things I’ve sworn off as I can’t be bothered with them anymore; inner tubes, lightbulbs, carbs and non-ABS bikes. It might limit my choices (no vintage bikes at all for me) but with the amount of great bikes from 2015 onwards available I still have too much to be able to structure my next bike. Another thing about older bikes is that you’re never guaranteed to be able to find new parts as your experience with a fairly modern Triumph shows.
So maybe it costs me another 1500 to get a newer bike. But I see better at night, feel safer, won’t have to change bloody tubes and I might even be able to resell it after I’ve ordered OEM parts from the dealership. I understand I’m in a fairly comfortable spot to be able to make that choice these days, fresh out of Uni I might have made others (and indeed I did). But back then I wouldn’t have spent a small fortune on a new modular helmet either.
In regards to Tech in bikes I enjoy buying products from a company that actually does the thing. Honda I believe are on to the right idea with just sticking CarPlay in the Africa Twin/NT1100. The rest of the motorbike companies aren’t hiring the best software engineers (they work for apple/google/whatever). Same thing with cars, the best UIs are rubbish compared to your phone.
Last week i sold my 2019 triumph speed twin 1200 with 6800 miles to a dealer for £7000, which is very strong money. Considering i paid £10k for it back in 2020, and looking online i would of only got £7.5k max selling privately and dealing with "people", it was a no brainer for me. I managed to pick up a low mileage 2014 Ducati monster 1200s with full service history and every extra imaginable for £6000 privately, so im quids in. There are good deals out there, you just have to be patient and ready to pounce.
When you talk about 20 year old bikes, I think of carburetors, chokes and other unreliable stuff. For me, the most important thing of riding is.. well… riding, so not breaking down.
Thus I own a Japanese’s motorcycle from 2007 and two Japanese cars. I have a company car which is not Japanese but brand new.
Hi Freddie, I’m currently selling a 1990 Gen 1 V Max 1200. I’ve had interest but it seems no one wants to leave the sofa before making silly offers. I’ve had multiple no shows, endless offers asking to knock off hundreds. Someone even asked if it had dealer service history… that’s a stretch after 34 years.
Anyway, it is frustrating.
What are the operating costs, road tax, insurance, servicing, of bigger cars? Huge. But not so motorbikes. I honestly cannot fathom how big bike could have an equivalent maintenance burden. I would say it’s a style thing.
I have a mint 2003 speed triple that originally was up for 2k and after no response I dropped down to 1.7k. Still no response. I tried via we buy any bike and was offered a deal of £400 😂 I've now resigned myself to keeping it but dropping all the tax, insurance and MOT on it as due to health I can no longer ride that bike safely even just to refresh the MOT. Unfortunately it will now sit in the garage taking up space but I'd sooner that than feel like I've been mugged.
Anytime the seller wants to move the discussion outside of the platform ie: Facebook, eBay, Craigslist, etc... is a huge red flag. You really have to watch the ads online, typically the "fraudulent" dealers will advertise it for such a low price as Freddie has shown but once you enter a discussion with them you then find out the amount listed is really only for a down payment. Clicking on the sellers profile can be a good way to determine if it's real or not, look at the other items they are selling and the actual person's profile itself.
21 year old bike, the kids who remember their dads having these as kids aren’t old enough to ride them, so not buying them. Give it a few years and they’ll rise. Same with cars, you buy what you remember as kids
Nothing to do with bike complexity, they don’t have nearly the issues of cars Freddie, supply issues have normalised plus simply there are declining numbers of big bike riders in UK Freddie against more and more new bikes entering market, that XJR looks a great buy to me, JB 🏴
Sadly, i think big engine motorcycling and motorcycling in general is going the way of the dodo unless something changes. It is an absolute hurdle to get your full licence and the standard of driving on the roads is getting worse, putting people off.
Buying a bike is all about the insurance, your age, where you live and it being 5-8 years old as anything over 10 years and the congestion charge cameras get you going to the centre of town zones across the UK now.
There is no congestion charge for bikes in London, (yet…)
BUT, very few bikes, over about 15 years old, comply with the ULEZ restrictions.
That Kawasaki looks very similar to the RE Shotgun 650
Awesome episode, as always!
The fact that for London these bikes will be subject to the ULEZ charge and when other towns and Cities adopt this policy could make these not so cheap to own !
Spending a lot of time watching Facebook marketplace at the moment for bikes and gear and definitely see the 125s holding their price vs larger/older bikes. Also see bike clothing and kits dropping value though - been watching an armoured shirt selling locally drop from 50-25-17 pounds - too small for me or I'd be snapping it up. I picked up a large tank bag with a waterproof cover included for £5 recently and a pair of armoured jeans and an armoured textile jacket for £30 together (jeans alone were worth that). And leathers, 2 or 1 piece are priced all over the shop - seen some (very dated 90s style) on for £1 and others all the way up to £300. Plain black leather jackets are circling the £50 mark but aren't selling (or the sellers aren't removing their listings -although I've tried a few on for size and they've been for sale for months). For new riders I'd definitely recommend saving cash by buying kit with a bit of patience - apart from helmets - even if you buy something you don't like too much but gets you on the road while you save up for something nicer/find something nicer on marketplace.
'It's done 40,000 miles' - Linda, that's your issue, people don't want bikes with perceived high mileage like that these days, in my experience.
40k is high mileage?
My cb 500 has 57000, runs like new
Depends what you are looking for. I just bought a 2007 Suzuki M109R from a dealer. So assuming their price at $9450 NZD is about a grand more than being sold privately, (I traded in my old M50 as I just could not be bothered trying to sell and older bike privately), that’s a hell of a lot of bike for something still sold new in the US for $15-17kUSD and a bargain basement price. I fully expect to have to pay more to keep it on the road and maintained however, but compared to a new car, there is actually very little to go wrong with it that isn’t basic spannering, not computer reprogramming.
I like the Kawasaki Eliminator. I think I might buy one. But I really love the Triumph Speed Twin 900 and 400. And, I like my current BMW F750GS, too. I need a bigger garage first.
I couldn't ride something like an xjr 1300 or similar because its a big heavy boring inline four that drinks lots of fuel I prefer my 18 reg bonnie with character and great fuel consumption ,plus the e10 fuel is a problem for older bikes,oh and my other bike is a screaming characterful street triple 765r ,I'm sure I'm not on my own with my bike choice these days
I think the opposite end of the market is partly why older bikes have little value. For instance finance, pcp etc.
What puts me off big old bikes is that they are big. Im a relatively new ish rider. Though I have been riding for 3 years, I have only done about 8-9k miles on roads. The power puts me off and the weight of the bike puts me off. I aint going to be able to lift those lumps up. Also if I do drop it, what is the cost and availability of parts. Its why I own a ktm 390 adv currently. Parts are available and im not scared to drop it due to this.
Is some of the used prices reflecting how much the sellers need the money asap?
The yam fj1200 not selling, along with other big engine one's may be down to weight & insurance group.
Totally agree that tech is out of date sooooo quickly.
Great podcast as ever Freddie.👍
I've just had a look at the advert, there is only one photo of it. Personally I think that is downright lazy sticking one pic up and expecting interest when other sellers have loads.
@@favourites96 you're not wrong. I sell items on ebay and even for a £10 sale I'll upload a dozen photos.
It's all down to price. You can talk all you like about causes but all they are are reasons why the price is too high. All of them are the reasons. The market is the market.
Interesting article on the bbc today about Canada being the car theft capital of the world. Demand being driven by a post covid shortage of cars. I wonder if bike theft is due to similar?
Modern engineering is fabulous and so good that IT have come up with a Ponzi scheme to force you to change. My iPhone and iPad, Garmin SatNav and my laptop (Windows 10 advertised as the last version) are all becoming less functional due to various issues…software, battery life, the list goes on. John Major was right when he said back to basics!
Hi Freddie
Here in Australia BMW bikes for sale used are at any one time on bikesales site is 900,
now 1700 people are just off loading bikes .Harley davidson 4500 for sale
Unfortunately a 1997 vehicle is too old to easily get spares, old enough to possibly be unreliable, competes with similar price newer vehicles, typically inefficient on fuel and can't be driven in the increasing number of LEZ/ULEZ areas.
The older bikes are for those who really "want" one. Maybe the bike they had posters on the wall of and can now buy it for a relative low price.
Servicing it could mean making sure you have a good tool kit ready as the per hour serving rate at garages is getting silly now.
Why do you need 1000cc plus ?
My 2024 NC750x has served me well since buying it in Feb 2024.
600+ Miles on the Dave's Day
220+ miles to Margate twice
270+ miles on a recent fun ride out to Dorset last Saturday and not a single issue.
Purred like a kitten and sipped petrol.
Approx. 80mpg.
I am not against older bikes, I'm looking for a GS160 Vespa, the scooter of my dreams back in the early 80's, and understand it will be a constant project that I will have to maintain myself.
For everyday fun and commute then the new bike wins hands down.
Oh, and don't get me going about INSURANCE........
Joe public can have unrealistic expectations with their cars / bikes etc. A dealer sells a bike at £8k. Your not going to get the same price but, a lot of folk think they will - completely Irrational ! The market decides the price !
I would say the "classic" market is VERY healthy indeed BUT it's very dependant on what your definition of a "classic" bIke is which can not be defined by age alone. Just look at the ridiculous prices being asked for 70's Japanese two strokes, Kawasaki Z1, Honda CB750 etc....the fact that the classic market is dominated by Japanese bikes is no coincidence either as they were the best engineered bikes of their era.
Maybe private sales are so difficult to achieve because most sellers need a cash buyer and most buyers only use cards or hire purchase to pay for their bikes so tend to stick with main dealers?
No one will fix the old bikes and the new ones are so good. CFMoto 450 MT, Aprilia 660 Tuareg, KTM 1390 Duke, Indian Chief, all the Royal Enfields, Triumph 900 Tiger (GT and Rally Pro), R1, S1000 RR, etc etc …. All too good so why have something less.
With the car prices (BMW 630) at £710 PA to tax, it is no surprise.
PCP, zero percent finance,fuel and insurance costs, emissions, service availability, "too heavy ...for the seller...and buyer"...all st
Yup, it's all been said but having 3 big bikes potentially for sale, I'm going to have to improve them and just enjoy...and I do 👍
Market collapse - could it be that most people are only able to last one month should they loose their job? Generally, most people have no savings. On top of this, we are moving to a labour government potentially and people are probably holding on to anything they have. On top of this, it's so easy to get PCP deals for £100 a month.
Freddy. You never said how much the car tax was. And all these cheap bike won’t pass ULEZ, and there are more Ulez zones springing up. This is why they are a hard sell
At least 20 year old bike will be easy to keep on the road. Electrical systems in 20 years are going to be a nightmare
Try getting spares. I could not get carb snorkels for a 2005 yamaha. No longer made. Reason I needed they were cracking and leaking air. 2nd hand ones the same. Will be scrap
We call that 'stranded tech' in my industry
Not the case in sweden prices are up.