NBA stat inflation | Comparing today's players to the past
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- We constantly compare today's stats to the past, but these aren't fair comparisons. Rule changes and tactics have inflated or deflated stats in different eras. This video explores the history of those rule changes and how they have radically influenced NBA stats across different time periods, before presenting a handful of ways to adjust stats to today's norms.
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Ben Taylor is the author of Thinking Basketball, a Nylon Calculus contributor, creator of the Backpicks Top 40 series & host of the Thinking Basketball podcast.
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A Visual History of Spacing: www.backpicks.c...
TEAM REBOUNDING: Before 1969, the NBA counted misses that were whistled dead before a live-ball rebound ("team rebounds") in a team's rebounding total. For instance, during the 1962 season, players were credited with 61.7 rebounds per game (per team), but teams were credited with the 71.4 per game shown in the video. After 1969, these rebounds weren't counted in team totals and set aside as "team rebounds." More on historical rebounding here: forums.realgm....
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Thanks for the great feedback on this. Hoping to make more stats videos in the future so it's awesome to hear positive reactions! Thanks again to Hardwood Amino -- you can download the app here:
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Im new subcriber!pls do a video about kobe
Congratulations on the content you put up. I bet it takes a lot of time to research and do the analysis. Very smart approach on the topic! Keep it up!
I appreciate the effort, but you missed the most important evolutionary change in the nature of the NBA even though it slapped you across the snout. You cite Doncic and Giannis as representing the concept of modern production, yet, astonishingly, you miss the fact that these two players are from Slovenia and Greece. There were no players from foreign nations in Wilt's day, and the huge explosion of basketball as an international industry, as opposed to a local pastime, is far more critical than the changes in strategies and rules. Players are flat out better due to the Darwinian cauldron of world wide competition. One should view the evolved conventions of dribbling as reflecting years of experimentation and creative innovation. It is piss poor to imagine that Cousy and Petit were restricted by rules - rather, they did not yet conceive of the array of possibilities that the game offered. The rules follow the themes of invention, not vice versa. BTW, Cousy often dribbled behind his back in the 50's and was not called for palming even though it is not possible to dribble behind ones back without getting a palm on the side of the ball.
Do one on if Reggie and Ray Allen shot 13 3's a game like harden
Dude you are awesome
The quality of this video is unreal, I am sure you put an incredible effort in it. Keep this consistency and being the best nba channel would be a reality soon.
He is the best nba channel, the only one who can beat him is heat check
Baraa Katsha Already one of my favorites!
Amen.
Totally agree - outstanding work
I thought it missed a few key elements and his formula didn’t take into consideration some factors.
Everytime I watch these videos I feel my knowledge has inflated
inb4 this video blows up like an Iraqi mosque
-- so if you adjust for 2019's inflation rate, your knowledge in 1969 drops by about 14%?
Elgin Baylor was probably way ahead of his times....Dunking on Bill Russell, crossover dribble, Eurostep.....he looks like a modern type player if you consider the technique he using
@Steve Jobs It's not supposed to be a perfect comparison, and he very clearly states in the video that much of the changes across eras are based on rule changes, and it's impossible to perfectly account for that. If you were going to compare stats across eras, how would you do it better?
So basically Wilt is an alien no matter what.
As were Wayne Gretzky, Barry Bonds, Pele, and Jim Brown
Blackman Whitesuit as long as steroids where made at the time
@@carmeloanthony3258 Steroid Era was still an era, but that pertains to Bonds. Gretzky is otherworldly in the world of hockey.
Blackman Whitesuit I was just speaking about Barry I don’t know much about hockey
@@blackmanwhitesuit Pele played against rice farmers, Messi easily the GOAT
Adjusted for inflation, Dennis Rodman is the best rebounder of all times.
Even when the dinosaurs ruled the earth, Dennis was grabbing boards among the brachiosaurs.
Brachiosaurs don't have hands though...
@@DreamWorldSyd They used their mouth, duh.
Still couldn't rebound that asteroid though.
@@sabbywins this comment killed then resurrected me
Nooooooooo...... Wilt & Russell control the narrative with best rebounder. Dennis only worry about defense & rebound. That's it. Wilt did wayyyyy more.
Well done. I have debated these things before and wondered about a statistical way to adjust for pace and changes in game. You did a really good job. And as you said, there is no perfect way to do it. but you did a really good job. thank you.
I come back to this video every now and again when people try to sell me on just focusing on base numbers.
Glad to see one of my favorite professors/youtube personalities enjoys this type of content as well! ILL
This video was fantastic. When most people talk about stat conversions, they kinda just use it as a middle finger to the past. But the way you did it makes perfect sense and the ending was a great way to finish off the topic. A+ work on the average. Easily one of my favorite channels to watch.
You gotta adjust Wilt's 20,000 women figure for inflation to draw fair comparisons against the greats of other eras.
lol...legend on court and on bed
Looks like the Greek Freak is a freak on the court and in the sheets - Giannis
@@vza7938 his belair home, had an orgy room. No other NBA players, acknowledge this except wilt.
- BadYoshi - He’s too nice though. For better or worse.
If we adjust the increase of the number of thots that would make 25.000 women
Finally someone talks about the dribbling rule changes.
Exactly people always try to make it seems as if they couldn't dribble. When in reality we've just been doing advanced double dribble and carry.
@@libraalibaba not to mention wilts camping under rim without 5 in key, offensive and defensive rim interference, self passes from backboard after FT etc etc
memories there's was key violations, and that was banned before wilt wven got to college gtfo
Yeah seriously. If that's what's allowed by the rules, fine, i don't care, but don't try to tell me this street ball crap isn't being given a huge amount of leeway.
It’s impossible to fairly compare players between eras. But still we do it anyway because arguing is fun.
If there is anything that's gonna make me stop watching the NBA, it's the apsurd amount of arguing combined with the rather small amount of knowledge.
It is not impossible to make a fair approximation of how someone would compare in an era. Wilt would be similar to Shaq in the modern era 33-35 points per game and maybe 12 -15 rebounds a game. Scoring ability has to do with the players ability and how the game is played. All of the decisions they make on the court, how ell adjusted they are to play different styles or play in different eras.
Scoring a lot of points means you are very creative, and have versatility. passing the ball means you are very creative and versatile. A players play style means how they approach the game, Wilt is similar to shack a lot in approach and style. LeBron is similar to Magic but has more athletic ability than Magic.
but it’s an approximation though. there are a lot of smaller things that don’t get factored in. every variable matters
@@movementman9777 I agree every variable matters.
The fact that Wilt Chamberlain played 48.5 mpg at such a high pace is absolutely insane to me.
@jross2330 I do watch the games and there was basically no half court offense so Wilt Chamberlain who loved to race back on both offense and defense did a lot of running, plus the amount of jumping he did on rebounds and blocks.
I am 71 years old and saw lots of old school basketball. It was crude, plodding, slow and stodgy by today's standards. No one in the 50's and 60's put in the mileage that Steph or James Harden do. It is silly to believe that athletes used to be in better shape than they are now.
@@philwilson609 today on average their more athletic especially since there's a lot more players but wilt in my opinion is the greatest athlete in NBA history.
He played all those minutes and slept with all those women. I don’t see how the top athletes of today even w performance enhancers could do that today
@@mrslick58 For shear athletic gifts, no one had more than Wilt. He ran a 48 sec quarter in high school! I seriously doubt that Giannis or KD could ever touch that, but in terms of skill the two latter players are miles beyond Wilt who could not dribble or shoot. If Wilt had grown up today he might be as great as anyone. If you sent KD back to the 50's he'd score every time he touched the ball and ruin every game.
Superb video, I find the numbers behind the NBA almost as fascinating as what goes on on the court, I was pleased to see Wilt still come out on top even after all the adjustment, many are quick to downplay his achievements because of the era he played. It also goes to show how legitimately incredible Luka and Giannis' seasons have been.
Stats don't always translate into true accuracy otherwise houston would of won 20 titles by now and they do everything by stats .. there's always luck and the competition people played against... take into account wilt was playing against the same 8-12 teams most of his career ...
It is also very feasible to consider that Wilt playing in a team today would average more possessions per game than league average, meaning his scoring would probably be higher. It was good idea to look at Wilt's played minutes and reduced them according to percentage. The same should be done with the possessions per game his team played in relation to league average.
Wilt didn’t elevate his teams offenses with his volume scoring . Bill > Wilt
This is a stout performance by you.
🙏
Pippen without a doubt traveled
It wasn't traveling because the rule changed. Technically, every player on every team since the 50s traveled.
The gather rule allowed players like MJ Pippen Lebron Giannis to dribble only twice in fastbreaks and go for a dunk. Giannis even reduced it to one sometimes.
xD
So a man the height and weight of Shaquille O'Neal never left the court, ran faster and jumped higher than Lebron James, and even when handicapping his numbers unnecessarily to adjust to the modern league which was in many ways shaped, by him, still had the best season ever had by a player.
Wilt doesn't get enough respect.
He never mentioned competition tho.. Wilts era was still the weakest era for competition
Armando De Los Santos he played bill russell and Kareem at least 8 times each every season
@@steffwes1312 and he played the worst teams in history at least 10 times a season
Lebron and Shaq would average 100 in that era
But a lot of Wilts legend is BS. He would have never been faster or jumped higher than Lebron James, thats just bullshit media narrative. Watch the tapes, for someone 7'1" with a claimed 48 vert, he never once got his head above the rim (which would be only 35inches). Not once.
Wilt Chamberlain once stated he would had dropped 70 PPG if he played in the 1980s. He talked about it in 1989 on Roy Firestone's show... And many of his peers agreed on that point. Players saw the game changing and they didn't like changes.
In 2019, old heads are criticising modern stars of the game. Again. By saying how basketball was at his peak during their own days.
But, they forgot how past athletes criticised them in the 1980s or 1990s.
The game's always changing. Great players found a way to dominate. That's why there's great; they are adapting to anything. Cream always rise to the top!
Wilt overrated
Wilt played when there were restrictions on the number of black players on a team so none of his stats count
And by the logic the old heads use to rank players they think that Paul George is a better basketball player then Stephen Curry just because Paul George is elite on both ends of the court and can takeover a game at will and they act like Paul George is a top 5 player in the NBA and some even say he's better or more valuable than James Harden and Giannis Anteokunmpo.
@@allanhouston6759 nah
@@allanhouston6759 nah
Wilt's athletic capacity to play 48 minutes on such high pace is completelly underrated!
You don’t need ESPN . ESPN needs you
Common people wont appreciate discussing numbers that are gotten from statistical formulas and actual rationale. They would just want to hear simple stat-lines such as points rebounds assists and the typical “this guy is better than this guy because he has this many rings”
This is the most fairest stat / era comparison I have ever seen anyone put forth. When comparing data of this nature in science, we have to "standardize" data sets, and you have done this to the best of your abilities. As you said, we can never truly compare eras but you have done an excellent job attempting to. Keep it up!
As an economics major, I am incredibly impressed with this analysis, great video as always. keep up the good work!
Major doesn’t equal No how/ professional, with that being said, he does really good analysis
And for those counting MJ averaged 30 consistently in an era where it was LUDICROUSLY rare
True. From his first 30-point season to his last, only two other players averaged at least 30 per game, including the two seasons he didn't qualify for the scoring title because of baseball.
@dhsilv2 I mean, if you have to use a strict cutoff of 25, sure.
@dhsilv2 Average team scoring from the late-70s to early 90s only deviated by about 5.5 points between the minimum and maximum. Jordan had three scoring titles after that and one 30-point season that occurred during the first year of the scoring decline, which lasted basically through 2003-04 before it started steadily increasing again. Scoring was pretty consistent from 2004-05 to 2015-16. The last three seasons have been m ore like that 70s-90s stretch.
Take care.
@dhsilv2 But in 1996, he still averaged 30+ ppg. He was 33 yrs old, and the league averaged 99.5 ppg.
@dhsilv2 You wouldn't think so, but it's a benchmark that people use because it's pretty rare. We had 11 people average at least 25 points per game this season alone. Only one of them hit 30. The difference is in how often it's accomplished.
There's not much difference in MLB between hitting .300 and .250, either, except hundreds of millions of dollars and the HOF.
It is always forgotten that Wilt came into the league in an era where the league itself was barely established. Wilt was told to score as much as possible as a draw for fans. It was more of a circus show than a demonstration of perfect team play.
Also worth pointing out that Wilt's teammates talked about Wilt trying to come out of the game long before getting to 100 and being mildly ashamed of taking 63 fga after the fact.
Was he perfect?, no. Was he a selfish glory hound?, maybe a bit, but nowhere near the extent usually claimed.
Facts
Craig vandenberge did they tell him to drop his scoring every year in the playoffs?
@@BoosterGoldEarth6 did they tell him to stop scoring in the playoffs?
"wilt was told to score as much as possible"
source: john cena
You must take into consideration Wilt's size advantage in his time. Shaq also has an insane size advantage in his era.
Wilt's ability to dominate vastly inadequate opponents coupled with the fact that Bill Russell gave him the business leads me to believe he would be exposed against top tier opponents in other eras.
Dream would shake him
Shaq? BBQ chicken!
All the Georgetown big men would give him fits.
Rodman would shut him down.
Barkley would push him around.
He scored 100 against a 29 win Knicks team with no player over 6'10". Layup after layup over a rather short, untalented, unathletic team.
Wilt averaged 30 and 28 against Russell in the regular season and 26 and 28 against Russell in the playoffs on great efficiency. Russell's teams beat Wilt's but nobody shut prime Wilt down.
Bro ur mad underrated
Your name is mad underrated.
Thanks bud
I was thinking the same thing Real Nigga
Crazy how MJ has the best career PER in NBA history while playing in an era of iso ball (aka inefficient in today’s league) and the slowest pace in league history. MJ was also a volume shooter who chucked a lot of mid ranged jumpers unlike the other PER leaders (lebron and wilt) who scored mostly in the paint. This is just testament to just how great MJ really was. 🐐🐐🐐
MJ played in the era of iso. It benefited him. He is on record stating that scoring against zone defence was one of the most difficult things he had to do as a basket ball player. And he called for the removal of zone defence along with players like tmac.
Hand checking was removed when mj was playing btw.
Also, mj was averaging 9 free throws a game back then. You can watch tape. The idea of the game was physical as fuck and you don't get a foul unless if it's a flagrant foul is just wrong.
In short, illegal defence made scoring easier than zone. They used to give fouls normally back in the 90s and 80s. Hand checking was removed when mj was playing.(even before then)
@@neimi911 Hand checking was banned in the 2000's. You are right about zone defense though. It was illegal in MJ era but the best teams still played a loose man-to-man defense and thus allowing for easier help defense and almost mimicking a zone defense.
@@GammaBoom ua-cam.com/video/ydOUbQqYb30/v-deo.html
@@neimi911 removal of hand check started after the jordan era
@@PowerGearPerformance check the link I posted or read a bit on NBA rules history.
1978: Clarification added to prohibit hand-checking through “rigid enforcement” of rule allowing a defensive player to retain contact with his opponent so long as he does not impede his opponent’s progress.
1994: Hand-checking eliminated from the end line in the backcourt to the opposite foul line
1997: A defender will not be permitted to use his forearm to impede the progress of an offensive player who is facing the basket in the frontcourt.
1999: In the backcourt, there is no contact with hands and forearms by defenders.
2004: New rules were introduced to curtail hand-checking, clarify blocking fouls and call defensive three seconds
Where is it that hand checking was fully legal in the Jordan era? It was always frowned upon. I've seen a couple of hand check fouls go Jordan's way fyi.
I wonder how the definition of assist has changed over time given how subjective that stat is.
Everybody eats b
Apparently assists are easier to get now because they are more relaxed
Assists used to be defined as "passes leading directly to a score" so if a player received the ball, dribbled, and then made a shot the passing player would not get credit for an assist. This started to change in the 1970s.
@@henrybuchan4688 it still is like that in FIBA Basketball and I think it's better that way ...the NBA is handing out assists like candies...if it was like 61-62 today Oscar Robertson would still be the only player ever to average a TD
I mean about 30 or 40% of the Assists in today's game didn't even count back in the day but since the Score keepers have really relaxed the way they score Assists now because it really doesn't matter what pass players make that lead to there teammates scoring because the Score keepers count those passes as Assists and we see a lot of them be made by guys like LeBron and Luka where all they have to do is wait for a teammate to come off a screen then when a teammate comes off a screen they either pump fake a jumpshot then put the ball on the floor then they reload into a jumpshot or They start driving to the basket and score while taking more than 2 dribbles then the Score Keepers give LeBron and Luka Assists on those plays.
Wow! Amazed by this video. Literally the best video about basketball history ever! WOW
Everyone at ESPN should be required to watch this.
This video is so important. These guys can do most things players today can do. People act like there is some "evolution" of athletes in the past 50 or so years. There's countless TED talks and analysis of this. Darwin would be rolling over in his grave. The game evolves. Rules evolve. Equipment evolves. Etc. I really don't think the athleticism is that different. There's athletic freaks in every era and there are Luka Doncics and Larry Birds in every era. Guys that were unathletic like Zach Randolph or Bob Petit would be unathletic in any era. Guys like Michel Jordan and LeBron would be above average athleticism in any era. Human beings don't evolve in 50 years. It's the game and what those players work on and develop that change.
If at all, there is a de-evolotion of humans (negative evolution).
The reasons are that children with serious physical/mental disorders that would not survive even 100 years ago, are now surviving (due to modern medicine), and passing on their genes to the next generation.
Not saying if its good or bad, just that this phenomenon exists.
Its kinda like when people see videos of HS athletes dunking, that shit has always existed, but back in the day they never had the social media platform to show it.
Udi Shomer that is plausible but the frequency of occurrence is very unlikely. These “bad gene” would have to be selected for over potentially “stronger” genes. Even if they were, they would only make up half of a genome. The potential for genetic recombination or for genes to not be expressed in subsequent generations would still exist. In addition, there is always the potential for mutations, which may or may not benefit the species, to occur. By definition, evolution is the change in gene frequencies over very long spans of time. With the exception of prokaryotic organisms, it can be reasonably assumed that 50 years, or even a 1000, is an insufficient time frame to measure the effects of evolution on a population.
@dhsilv2 Agreed. Players like Siakam and the like are perfect for this "positionless" NBA we have now.
if todays players are more athletic, its thanks to modern equipments/technologies/science. but one thing is confusing, why are players today more fragile? they play less minutes too but gets injured more easily considering this era is soft, compared to past eras where players actually bleed but still manage to play back.
Someone who understands statistics! Excellent analysis, even better video.
Also interesting that you couldn't twist your Palm when dribbling in the 1960s. For the longest time I thought that players just really sucked at dribbling back then! Learned something new.
That's the mistake most of the young nba fans did they watch an 80 ball game and think omg that's all busts, and than claim that anybody of this Era would destroy them completely but without in mind that he got a violation after another for travel and palming in this case another travel
Every time kids bring up "plumbers" and say today's players are more athletic, I point out the dribbling rules. Easy to look faster when you don't have to dribble "properly".
Please do that jokic video a lot of people seem to not understand what makes him the best center.
"embiid better" peeps really dont get it
Embiid s better 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
Embiid is better. I'd much rather have a post scoring defensive monster that has suspect shooting than a five that's a a great shooter and passer but has little post presence and is a total liability on defense.
I'm not sure if he is the best center, but definitely most unique player in the NBA
@Xavier Amador thank u
Have so much respect for this channel. Def gonna donate to your patreon when I am financially stable. I get more satisfaction and meaning from learning from your videos than most of my college courses.
I just found some data saying in 112 games of Wilt's career (probably his last 112 games) where blocks where counted he averaged 8.8 a game ...that's crazy
Ive read ur whole top 40. Love the videos man. I'm a fan for life. Can't wait for the Jokic video. He's in my top 5 in the league rn
Ok more accurately he's in my top ten
Where did you find his top 40?
@@jordankartchner4090 Type in Backpicks GOAT Top 40 on the internet. He hasn't updated the list, (he gave the newest list on Twitter) but he writes scouting reports for all-time greats and rank s their careers.
Jokic has a ways to go. Bron, KD, Steph, Kawhi and Giannis are better than him. Jokic is in the Harden, AD, Embiid bracket. Not top 5.
Michael Vick he’s not even in the that level yet. Jokic is in the lillard Kyrie Paul George level
@@michaelvick4588 g
Harden is top 5
This is why stats are such a low criteria for me when I'm ranking the GOAT, its too subjective, this is what brought eras into the conversation too, which I hate, it is a cop out argument used when someone needs to elevate their favorite player but has no argument for it in reality, it is used to tear down or lift up one player over another, that literally is the only purpose it serves period, I assume that the greatness outways the era, that they would have been comparitively great no matter when they played, the cream always rises to the top, come off your favorite players nuts and appreciate the greatness of others, if you have to tear everyone else down to build him up in your mind, it's a good sign that you are not talking about the GOAT, a certain players fans are who I am addressing, no need to mention names... we all know who I'm talking about, and they all do too, prolly mad before they even made it this far in the comment, it's just sad 🙄
Fantastic video. As always, fantasy sports leaguers just have more fodder to debate who truly is the GOAT.
Would Wilt be able to play in the same high impact defensive era of the 80's, would Harden, Curry and Kobe be able to play in the 60's when ball handling limitations were greater...
More fuel, more arguments, I love it all!
Players today jump much higher, shoot far more accurate and run much faster than the past.
But the rules are different than the past
Did you know that you are one of the smartest UA-camrs out here and you have a great channel that's my analyst for the day.
I wish we could take every legendary player, and coach, from there best individual season, and have them play out one season to see who the real king is.
vsauce but its basketball
Imagine if wilt had proper sneakers
Great video. Can you do one about Steph curry like number behind the 15-16 season or how he revolutionized the game. Steph curry is player you should do video on. Thanks if you do
Facts. I'm waiting on a video on Curry too. His 2015-16 season is the greatest I have ever seen. He's still a great player but when you look back at his highlights, it's like he was a totally different player. He looks human nowadays.
Alexandre Schmitt you mean the greatest REGULAR season. He was a disgrace in the playoffs especially in the playoffs.
@@alexandreschmitt7006 Because he was going all-out that regular season in which he and the team paid the price in the playoffs. Now, Steph and the whole Warriors team are just coasting in the regular season. They don't want to make the same mistake again.
@@JokerMarkHamill stfu with that bullshit
Hey guy, can you do a video comparing some of the most prominent player stats condensed though this method. Like steph, russ, lebron n stuff with the most prominent of other eras, maybe like 10 players for each decade. Good shit btw.
Felt like an episode of Chart Party. You better get an internship at SB at the very least..
This is one of the greatest basketball videos I've ever watched. I literally subscribed just off this one video.
I will be binge watching ya whole channel.
This is a super important video for all NBA fans to see
This video is super high quality and needs to be continued. I know there are other stats guys around that could lend you their simulations, supercomputers, and literature reviews to come up with a wonderful video and published work which introduces mathematics and statistics to the current generation so they are able to grasp how good Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant were compared to Lebum.
And to give some context as to how good James Harden's 50pt+ and free throws really are; how inhuman Klay+Curry's efficiency is for points/minute/possesion -- or how fast you can be down 3 to down 30 pts against them, and how Westbrook's Triple Doubles - including all the ones he did not get due to minutes restriction and other reasons makes him into possibly the best player in the past 10 years for sheer athleticism and natural ability.
How do you combine pts, rebounds and drb% into a single percentage?
It's a basic linear regression -- the right amount of each predicts triple-double percentage pretty well.
I always said only MJ and Wilt should be in conversation for G.O.A.T. ... I lean towards Wilt more and more but I just can't decide...but I think in a direct duel MJ would have to adjust to Wilt being in that paint ... Wilt would just play his game as usual
why does 2006 kobe have #24 and the fro tho?
Production limitations my friend. :)
The inflation adjusted numbers don’t account for change in degree of difficulty of scoring. It calculates as if defense doesn’t exist or is uniform throughout all eras. So again, these numbers are fun for some fans to look at but they are actually meaningless if truly trying to create a even ground to compare players of different eras.
Great video. Ive always thought about stat inflation in todays game and rule changes effecting play comparisons. But at the same time, its still tough
this video should be shown to all stone age basketball fans who thing russel or wilt are goats because of their imbalanced stats back then....
Most modern players have wilt and Russell in their top 10 so I don’t know what you mean by Stone Age basketball fans lol. By the way, just like the pace in the 60’s being faster than it is today; the pace today is faster than it was in the 90’s.
A lot of work seems to have gone into this video.
Paused it to write this comment + subscribed!
It is also very feasible to consider that Wilt playing in a team today would average more possessions per game than league average, meaning his scoring would probably be higher. It was good idea to look at Wilt's played minutes and reduced them according to percentage. The same should be done with the possessions per game his team played in relation to league average.
Great video! Feels good to see someone trying to keep in mind as many variables as possible while also admitting that these comparisons really aren’t possible no matter how you analyze it.
Amazing video and thanks for doing this. It's just impossible to compare players with stats. They keep changing rules...
I think what this video best shows is that a discussion between Jordan and LeBron, or players in different eras in general is simply impossible
Exactly
I think it's possible, it's just a lot more nuanced than comparing pts/rbs/ast and awards.
Yet the guy who made the video created an all-time career rankings list so he probably would disagree
The GOAT already told yall that....lol
I hate how these stats are arbitrarily selected to make someone look amazing. Like what makes Giannis' 27 points, 12 rebounds, and 5 assists special? There might be someone averaging 26/15/10, or 30/10/6, but they're automatically out of the conversation when talking about not one being able to do something since Kareem in 1976. These stats just wreak of someone abusing stats purely for the sake of confirming their narrative.
The economic comparison to basketball made my IQ higher. A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow. #inflation
That has nothing to do with inflation.
If they keep printing money, or in basketball terms if league average scoring gets easier and easier.
I really can't stand how much flagrant travelling is allowed in the NBA. Like, do we just not give a fuck about the rules?
Man, I just love you. I don't think I've seen NBA stats better explained and analysed than this. Probably the best basketball content I've seen in a while.
Back then competition was worse so good players dominated BOI
This channel is super interesting. Stats can be really deceiving, creating false narratives as well as over glorifying some and underrating others
My book is all about that if you haven't already read it: www.amazon.com/Thinking-Basketball-Ben-Taylor/dp/1532968175
I'd love to see Rodman's stats adjusted to today, or even funnier, to 1962. Dude would have averaged 40 rebounds a game
I’ll see Charles Barkley wonder how so many older players got more rebounds than him and praise Oscar Robertson so much for his triple double stats. It’s kind of frustrating but I doubt most players put as much thought into statistics as to compare number of possessions across eras.
#Giannis #FearTheDeer #GreekFreak #MILWAUKEE #Number1InEast #BestRecordInNBA #PlaysDefense #PlaysBothEndsOfTheCourtNightInNightOut #BigmanStatus #FaceOfTheLeagueForYearsToCome #MVP
O-yeah thank you for the vid. #AwesomeSause
Best basketball channels
1. Basketball Examined
2. Thinking Basketball
3. Dom 2K
It's not just inflation: you also have to account for changes in player athleticism. The average player is still as tall as players were 20 years ago, but are more than 10 pounds heavier, which tends to be an indicator of more muscle mass, and thus, more athleticism. But, I feel most people won't have to look at body types to admit that the talent pool has vastly expanded since the NBAs inception, leading to a closing of the skill gap between the worst and best players.
So basically MJ is still the best ever. Gotchya
That what it boils down to
There needs to be a basketball test you have to pass in order to be allowed to talk basketball on that app you promoted lol
Basically people need to stop hating on Harden, Curry, and Luka
Basically.
This must be the best basketball video ever put on youtube, really... congratulations from Italy 🇮🇹
Very underrated channel. Basketball porn
This is the best basketball statistics video I have ever seen.
Really, really great work!!
I lowkey hate the gather rule. It turns a travel into literally 4 steps
Also these stat lines of 20-7-5 or 27-12-5 are entirely arbitrary. That doesn't mean they're not impressive, they do show a great versatility. But he could easily have said, "Doncic was close to becoming the first rookie to put up 20-7-6, and was off by just one assist!" Doncic's line is the same but is painted in an entirely different light. So we all know the cliche, "stats tell what you want them to tell", and, to use another cliche, it is a cliche for a reason. For opinions about players like Doncic and Giannis, highlighting these versatile stat lines do a great job of pointing out their uniqueness and the rarity of it in a way that may not be visible to the casual fan. They also serve to point out what is valued by the modern NBA.
@E BO I also probably should've posted that although they are arbitrary they are still usually impressive numbers when it is done. But it is usually done to shoehorn some young player into a group of greats. Also, if you do this with players as unique as Draymond Green you can fit him into all sorts of company! I am a huge fantasy hoops nerd and I remember doing this in college when coming up with trades; specifically one time when the league had to vote if a trade of Shawn Marion for Elton Brand was legit. Everyone would drop these lines like ," well Marion is the only player with x pts, y rbs, z assists, and however many steals blocks and %s." (Side note,. Marion was a fantasy monster!)
So whenever I hear these stat lines brought up always go back to fantasy hoops and the manipulation of stats; good times!
The number crunching is great but it isn't everything. This video can't really adress the overlooked parts of the game particularly on the defensive end. James Harden would simply not be the player he is right now in the 80s and 90s when players could without any penalty: Press 94 feet all game long, trap, handcheck and jam their forearms into an offensive players ribs. Flopping also was ignored and often frowned upon and laughed at by officials and players. And even though it was the bane of the league in the 80s, teams like the Piston's and Knicks would have sent Harden out to the ER on a stretcher before the second half the way he plays and you could apply this common sense to a lot of post 2010 players.
players can press 94 feet all game long but they dont anymore because it is useless. no ones shooting at 94 feet why waste energy. trapping is even worse this era than it is in the 80s and 90s. in the 80s and 90s you literally had to commit to a double team, you could not sag off a player you knew couldnt shoot because it was illegal too. now in the nba with zone defense and the ability to sag off your man defense is much more skilled. hand checking literally made no difference. it was illegal in the 80s and 90s but was not called by the refs and when the league cracked down on the refs not calling it the league average ppg dropped by like 4ppg lol. only 2 returning all stars from pre cracked down handcheck averaged higher points. the nba was not that rough as it is made out to be. go watch actual film instead of copying what everyone says.
You forgot some big rule changes.
Widen of the lane 2 times
Defensive 3 second Violation
also offensive and defensive rim interference, self passing of board after FT, 5 in key and many others.... back then it was wild west and for roid using big men it was paradise.
Great video. Sometimes we just don't realise how much the game has changed. It's like a totally different game now
I can't believe people are so bad when it comes to statistics, it's like they forget the human body, you cannot rely on adjusted stats, that is so ludacris, when the pace is up that means you have to be physically superior than others, when the pace is down you were allowed to be fat like Shaquille O'Neal, and many others that were questionably fat, then to say someone who played 48 minutes a game only played 40, 24 hours in a day in the 1960s is the same as 24 hours today in the 2020s, the higher the possessions means it was better basketball in terms of athletic fitness, lower the possessions it means you're allowed to be fat like Luka Doncic, Zion Williamson and others.
Very true
Wilt was still double the size of just about everyone else his time tho. That had to make it easier for him to score on these people.
Soo much easier! But he would still dominate in today's game
Excellent presentation! Would love to see a video focused on comparing the defensive rule changes and how that's impacted player mobility on the court - using similar game clips taken from different eras showing how defense was played then vs. now - and how this has impacted scoring and offensive mobility over the decades.
Great video second time watching it
What about the points inflation? Today's teams score more points on average than say a 2002 team, with the same amount of players, so there's more points to be had today, than there was in the dead-ball era.
Never thought someone analysing sports would make me feel so dum.
Thanks for the nerd stats. I use eye test.
If you take just pace of play KOBE season is the highest adjusted scoring season in history
No. It's Harden. Before Harden, it's Jordan.
damn u deserve way more subs for the work u put into these videos!!!
So mj is still better than lebron?
Where do I find hardwood amino?
I’ve become a huge fan of your channel. Is this channel all run by you alone? I ask because the amount of work you put into each video does not go unseen!!! I really appreciate your time and effort.
First video I've came across of yous. Awesome video, had to hit subscribe 👍
I'm Totally into this one man! Good stuff.
I like how you showed that Wilt Chamberlain would still be an all time beast today stat-wise.
There is one thing I should let people know about Wilt -- he stood at midcourt and made 20 of 25 Free throws from that half court mark.
In Today's game -- Wilt Chamberlain might still average 50 a game one season. WHY??? Because he was very very strong. His normal shot was not a dunk, it was a fade-away in midair. He had to shoot that way to cut the power out of his shot so it wouldn't go over the goal -- but in it.
Think about a player 7'2" tall with a jumping fade away shot that has half court accuracy and range --- Unstoppable.
Oh yeah, WIlt won the NCAA High Jump in the 50's by the way. He could jump like a deer.
The game is a fucking mess omg
I'd love to see some content on LeBron, Westbrook and Kobe.
Definitely in the works!
Incredibly made video
I've been waiting for someone to make this EXACT video! Always have wondered about this.
this analysis is absolutely sterling. Great stuff.