How to be a shooting threat when you can't shoot
Вставка
- Опубліковано 18 січ 2023
- Are poor shooters liability in the 3-point era? How can superstars like Giannis Antetokounmpo and Zion Williamson space the floor in today's NBA without a good 3-point shot? This detailed film breakdown analyzes how the league has evolved to attack modern defenses by spotting up behind the line and cutting, or attacking closeouts in a timely, regimented fashion with "45 cuts," "stampedes" and more.
Support at Patreon: / thinkingbasketball
Book: www.amazon.com/Thinking-Baske...
Podcast: player.fm/series/thinking-bas... or at www.stitcher.com/podcast/ben-...
Website: www.backpicks.com
Twitter: @elgee35
Ben Taylor is the author of Thinking Basketball, a Nylon Calculus contributor, creator of the Backpicks Top 40 series & host of the Thinking Basketball podcast.
Stats courtesy:
www.pbpstats.com @bballport
www.basketball-reference.com
stats.nba.com
-----
Footage in this video is owned by the NBA and its partners. It is intended for critique and education.
Music by csus (instrumental)
#ThinkingBasketball - Спорт
Ben Simmons clicked on this video instantly
Yeah, it would help him, except he's also scared to get fouled.
@@shorewall i can understand being a bad 3p shooter. I cant understand being a bad FT shooter. You should at least score with 75%. is still bad, but at least opponents aren't going to foul you methodically
As a sixer fan, I will let you know he STILL won''t shoot even under the basket...
@@mence5992it has to be laziness at this point, how do you not feel shame bricking free throws
simmons is a lost cause. as a sixers fan i can tell you he will never improve.
This is a great example of why the scoring surge has nothing to do with defenders not trying and everything to do with defense being so much harder to play
Even during the 'slower' Jordan eras, the best offense always won out because the superstar player on offense took a whole team on defense to contain them AND try lock out the teammates. With more available spacing in the half court and an easier base line for perimeter players to score/drive compounded with having 3 man games to draw defenders out of position, offenses more often win out. Then you have the best offensive players executing those things and regular season defenses aren't really as consistent so shoot outs happen harder in the regular season.
Plus, more trips to the FT line
Moving without the basketball, the most underrated skill. Which is a great video as well.
for some reason it took players this long to realize that THIS is actually what makes Steph so successful. Yes he's the best three point shooter of all time but you can't spam three all game yk? His ability not to cut to the basket but to cut into open space is so underrated. People thought to be like/beat the warriors all you had to do was stand out on the three point line but that's not all it is
First time I remember noticing some "stampeding" was Manu Ginobili. A 36 year old Manu would drop 20 points on just layups and free throws largely because he would start moving before even catching the pass. So even though he was much slower, he would get by defenders and finish with his usual craftiness around the hoop
Aaron Gordon is amazing at this, and Jokic is amazing at finding him.
In any era people underestimate how valuable other shots are, for example in the 3 point era, 2 points have become statistically more valuable, but back in the old days of basketball, coaches thought the 3 pointer was too risky, but players like Steve Kerr and Larry used them to there advantage. The same thing is happening today with 2 point shots in the NBA, with teams so keen to stop the 3 they have forgotten about the 2 points that can be incredibly effective in the ending of games.
Larry attempted under 3 a game for his career, even moderate volume 3 poi t shooting was rare
Does that mean the GOAT Paul Pierce would average 50 in today’s SOFT NBA ? 😉
@@Oppenheimer1967 most likely because NBA greats are great in any era
@@Oppenheimer1967 you have to keep in mind paul would have knowledge of the current era and abuse the easy 2 as teams focus on stopping the 3. so him averaging 50 is not a stretch at all.
@@johnmarkson1998 him averagaing fifty is definitely a stretch
This is one of GP2s really underrated skill. His off ball cuts provided great movement and opened up lots of driving lanes for the Warriors last year. His 3 started falling towards the end of the season and added another dimension to his game. This allowed plays with Draymond as the short roll passer become more lethal.
Trailblazers
@@sloshtugz4087 *"last year"*
@@landlocked_lifts332 love u , dont kill ur self broloc
@@sloshtugz4087 ...
I love how the Ben Simmons shooting problem could literally be solved by Ben Simmons’ driving - something he was revered at, yet it seems his driving is somehow regressing💀
ben simmons moment
Haven't it been starting to regress since that Atlanta game?
hes scared to get fouled beause he cant shoot fts. thats the crux of everything ben simmons.
Health..dont see him move like b4...no dunks
Yh watch when he sets a pick, he hardly rolls
This video provides such a good counterargument to people who say "defense in the nba is dead." The fact of the matter is, offenses are better now than they ever were. There are better three point shooters on the floor to stretch the defense, which in turn opens up more cutting lanes. There's only so much defenses can do!
when people say noone defends in the modern NBA, they really don't know how hard is to defend properly so talented and gifted players nowadays
That’s what I’m saying. Back then everyone wasn’t talented so technically the defense looked more advanced but it hasn’t changed only the offense did. It’s jus basically them discrediting hard work. You were able to handcheck and actually clothesline someone and not get a technical foul or flagrant. So yea everyone still defends but everyone can also score now these older guys gotta stop forgetting evolution
@@Riqharris handchecking arguably would have made it harder to score
@@Riqharris if you could be more physical then you could definitely slow todays offense down
@@ry_an. didn’t make it harder for jordan. It jus made it harder for the playmakers
@@Riqharris cause jordan was jordan. The Pistons beat the shit out of him and managed to slow him down a bit. Imagine curry get beat up like that today
That’s awesome. Did not notice that happening in the NBA. I’m taking this knowledge with me Saturday morning when I play some ball - looking forward to the easy layups.
I said the same thing its so simple we overlook it and forget about it too bad my gyms close super early 😞
I guess you don't see it as much on rec ball play at times because it requires knowledge and timing of the guys you play with. Usually you see a duo whose familiar with each other bust it out besides screening games. And if its full court speed is the best asset because those guys got their basket while the team with slow guys are still sucking in air.
@@t4d0W Feel ya.
i feel like this wont be as useful in pick up tbh. Players hardly ever have the advanced defensive instincts to help on drives, theyll usually just stick to you no matter what, which means there wouldnt be anyone to 45 cut behind
It really depends on how much your primary defender helps on drives. If they help and recover a lot, this will be useful. If they stick to you and face guard, instead set some screens like offball screens or dribble handoffs so their unwillingness to come off you gets your teammates open
If Zion & Giannis start to average more shot attempts per game on a higher shooting efficiency, I feel bad for any defenders that have to sprint out to the arc just to see one of them steam rolling towards the basket
I doubt Antetokounmpo will ever be a reliable long distance shooter, at least not until his physique abandons him.
@@Mr.Sax. reliable? Maybe not. But he is miles better than anyone ever hoped he could be and good enough to punish lazy defenders. And a Giannis dagger 3 is particularly demoralizing to a team and crowd.
@@Mr.Sax. and also a back to basket player like a kd or bron. So maybe for the rest of his career he’ll jus be a mediocre shooter
@@Prince_Luci demoralizing is one thing but consistency is best. Giannis gets a free bucket off those cuts and if someone had the bad luck of being close to him even if they were late to defend, its FTs at the line and one less defender (unless its a back up defender) who can't be aggressive patrolling the rim due to possible foul trouble. Which means the rest of Giannis' teammates can drive AT that defender knowing they get a green light.
Giannis is on his 9th season, he is not going to turn into a good shooter...
All great concepts pointed out here.
From a teamwide standpoint Denver might be the best 45 cut & sneak cut team in the league. It’s hardwired in them everytime Jokic gets doubled on a postup.
Tyrese Maxey is another name that definitely dominates with his speed stampeding from the slot. Super effective bc it usually comes off a swing pass following a Harden/Embiid PNR where Maxey’s defender slides to the nail and the opposing big is drawn up in the action w Embiid, leaving not much resistance at the rim.
🎯
There is always going to be a shift. With all the teams defending the three so much and signing players that are good at it, means that scoring in the paint becomes a more viable option again.
Ah, the proverbial pendulum.
i mean scoring in the paint is always valuable, that is something that will never change unless people start averaging shooting 80% from 3 or something crazy. Most defenses try to limit layups and 3 pointers, so in my opinion the next shift will be more midrange shooters that can still drill 3s at an efficient clip
My favorite basketball channel, no one else is as unbiased and actually examines the game like you on here
2:40 to be fair Zubac was really slow to pass that ball, which allowed a defender to get to Powell. So, since he knew Zubac cant make that read he decided to make it easier for his teammate by cutting. That was my takeaway when I was watching that game live
I thought zubac didn’t keep the ball high enough to see over the top of his defenders, otherwise Norman Powell wouldn’t have caught it in an awkward shot pocket.
I usually hear people complain about how awful defenses are this season, when the truth is that offenses are just getting so much better that it's hard to match. I'd love to see a video on your thoughts on how to successfully defend this new era of off-ball movement and constant rotation that seems to be leaving traditional man defenses in the dust
I had this argument with a friend 4-5 years ago. Floor spacing provides opportunities that the league will figure out and there will be another shift, and so here we go.
This is exactly what I've been telling people, especially the youngins that don't know basketball more than 10 years ago. The offense is so much easier just in the past 7 or so year not because all of a sudden there was a surge of talent but the 3pt shooting has spread the Defense so it makes it hard to stop an offense. Why it took so long for coaches to understand that a 3 can spread the defense to make your offense better even if you struggle on the occasion is anyones guess. I would venture to guess that most sports have been traditional in their approach and thus change is slow -- but in the 00's we started seeing advance stat tracking (helped a lot by 'Moneyball', the 2002 Oakland A's baseball team that went against the norms and put together a team based on analytical thinking -- a team that went on to have the best record in baseball while having one of the lowest payroll).
But with advance stats and more analytical thinking in addition to nba rules that allowed for easier perimiter play, they finally started to understand the value of the 3. Not only is 35% shooting from 3 equal to 52% from 2pt, but it adds additional impact by spreading the court and making cutting to the basket or cutting for an open mid range shot much easier. Giannis is dangerous on the outside not because he can hit that shot, but because he can cut from there with spaced out D with no center guarding the hoop. In 90's and before, there was no 3 second D violation and centers often camped around the hoop in part also because there wasn't a huge 3pt threat to worry about.
also don't forget that there wasnt an offensive second violation or zone defense, so you could just iso in the post or midrange. Charles Barkley and Karl Malone were some of the worst offenders of this because they could use the whole shotclock to isolate a smaller defender and just back them up for an easy layup unless the team threw them a hard on ball double
@@er7776 " don't forget that there wasnt an offensive second violation or zone defense, so you could just iso " That's literally what they do today but by spreading the court so it's no different. Surely you aren't saying it was easier to play offense in mid / late 90's than today?
Barkely was the worst at dribbling with his back to the hoop and bullying the opposition until he gets close enough and shoots in the final 5 seconds of the shot clock. This is something he began to do in the mid 90's with the Suns...he was too quick for a big defender and too strong (and long) for the smaller defenders. In 1999 they made it a violation to dribble with your back to the hoop and inside the FT line for more than 5 seconds. It was often called the charles barkley rule.
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson i was agreeing with you. I was saying that because of the simpler(not easier, it was harder for those individual stars) offense, that it was easier to defend to some extent. I say to some extent because defending a great like barkley or MJ in isolation is hard but if you were on the other side of the court you had an easier time defending their teammate compared to modern nba. Nowadays it is harder to be a good defender because of the spacing and improved offensive talent of rollplayers, so you need to pay attention to not just 1 or 2 guys but everyone even during an isolation or old school 2 man pick and roll.
Ofcourse this is relative to some extent. Guys like zack lavine suck at team defense but are pretty good at iso defense. While someone like curry sucks 1v1 but is pretty decent as a team defender
Also isos are maybe the hardest form of offense but also the most simple. Plays with screens are easy but sometimes pretty complex. I wasnt taking a digg at the 90s, I was trying to uplift the modern era just like you
@@er7776 Just an FYI, that iso comment you made is a common argument used by youngings who argue it was easier in the 90's. they frequently say "it was so easy to get an ISO because of illegal defense and unable to double team". They actually do think that double teams didn't happen because they read something quick about the defense rules of the 90's without properly reading the rule. Double teams were allowed but the defensive player had to commit -- he couldn't stand in the middle or change direction.
The game before 2004 was very post dominated and crowded around the basket and the short-mid range shot. It meant you had more players who were playing in the post or who were there for defense in the post. That means you had a lot of guys that by today's game play would be seen as low skill but their game was built for the era of the past. Players like Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, Mark Eaton, Dikembe, etc would either not play in today's game or would have a far more limited roll. Just look at what happened to DeAndre Jordan and Andre Drummond. They quickly saw their minutes diminished in the past 3 or 4 years. Drummond is only 29 and he's a bench player the past 2 years now averaging 12 minutes despite being a 17pts 15reb player just 3 seasons ago. Deandre Jordan averaged 30min in 2018-19 and since then dropped to 22min, 22 min, 13min and 14min this year.
They have been replaced with perimeter oriented players -- mostly Three & D players.
Today's ISO are mostly used when a team is a funk and a star player wants to break that funk by going iso. They were very common 3-4 years ago by spreading the floor but now they do as you described -- lots of screens.
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson yeah I totally agree on all your points. Also I get what you mean when new people dont understand how isos worked in the 90s. They often ignore that you could double to descredit the era. However I did say you could hard double the ball in my first comment and through my second one
Also those guys you mentioned. The rodmans,ben wallaces and such are some of my favourite players. I know they carried their load in the rebounding, hussle and defense. No disrespect to them
Another side note: I wish we could get a full season or several of healthy Zion because that guy has seriously amazing touch.
I've never been a basketball fan, but this is the type of thing that gets me excited in team based sports or games. I've only really been learning the history of the way basketball has historically been played over the past few months, so seeing this kind of strategic development is exciting and makes me want to watch the sport more. If I had a local team to root for, maybe I'd have enjoyed the sport a lot earlier.
Moving without the ball, a much forgotten but CRUCIAL aspect of the game. Everyone these days just hangs out at the 3 point line to jack up a fat brick or stand there and complain when you don't kick the ball to them. There is a guy I play with who is kinda short but a pretty solid 3 point shooter, but why I love playing with him is he moves without the ball so effectively he gets wide open layups ALL the time
It’s great that cutting/slashing is becoming more useful. I can’t help but watch this though and laugh that the Knicks can’t utilize Obi toppin in this way at all
It would be great if you can do a video on various factors that have lead to the increase offensive performances over the past 5 or years and maybe 10 years for individual performers. I know you discussed it in your podcast on at least 2 epsidodes, but it would be great to see actual footage of it. Some of the reasons you (and others) have mentioned for the 'stat inflation' include:
1. 3pt shooting spreading the defense to increase efficiency on offense
2. coaching strategies and play calling. More complex plays to create more open shots.
3. along with 2, complex play calling to have offensive players hunt for weaker defensive players by forcing switching. This is also made easier because of the threat of the 3pt shot.
4. Numerous rule changes in the 2000's to make it a more offense game, especially perimeter game. No more handchecking, a defensive 3 second rule, gather step was added (was 2 steps before now 3 steps -- 2 steps plus gather), reducing the backcourt violation from 10 seconds to 8 seconds to speed up the game...and later (possibly) in the 2010's giving out harsher penalties for certain violations or fouls such as more frequent use of flagrant 1 and the clear path to the hoop foul that basically functions as a flagrant 2 foul!
5. Calling fewer travels and carrying. Or on carrying, allowing MORE palming of the ball.
A lot of these factors are tied to each other in some way. Would be interesting to see a video detailing all the factors.
Reposition when your defender turns his back on you. That's simple and it works.
I guess defenders will have to make judgements about whether to bounce into the last known location, or reorient before recovery depending on the outside shooting threat. The volleyball jump defense on shooters might work too.
Being a kid from the 90's, I grew up playing close to the basket. I stopped playing about 13 years ago and the last year decided to play with some younger coworkers. I was surprised to see how they would open the lane to cover the 3. I would basically walk to the basket and lay it in every time. Their defense was focused to the outside shot. It was very surprising for me.
This was awesome, what a breakdown of beautiful offensive tactics.
Fantastic video mate. Most analysts only talk about how subpar defense is the reason for the spike in scoring in the current Times. But your take really opened my eyes to see it from a different perspective. Top quality content my man! Keep it up ✌💪
What a great video. Love these breakdowns.
Such an interesting and subtle point. Just crazy how advanced offenses are nowadays
Great video. loved it!!!
Saw Jokic do this a lot last night against the Timberwolves. He would catch the ball in the post midway through a spin or with a half step past the defender already.
Wow, love the analysis in this video. It's no wonder why it's so much harder to guard NBA offenses now. I wonder if it would be a good idea to just ignore a nonshooter and not close out on them at all to take away the drive a bit more. Of course, someone like Giannis or LeBron will be able to beat you anyway but I'm thinking about someone like Davion Mitchell. There was no reason for the defense to even think about covering him because him taking a wide open 3 is to their benefit.
Bad NBA shooters without the threat of a close out can make open 3’s circumstantially .
Great video!
Amazing video, I’ve been playing a lot of pickup games with my friends and I’ve always struggled in being an off ball player but this video really opened my eyes! Thank you man
Keep up the good work! This vid really helped me and Im sure Im going to use it asap💪
This was an awesome video! Was really cool to see such a deep dive on an evolution of the game, but what got me to comment was the explanation of why we are seeing this now and the historical context of why it wouldn't have worked in earlier basketball.
just a fantastic video, thank you!
This video was amazing! I felt like my world was opened.
I feel like the best way to be useful as a non-shooter is by setting screens for shooters and not necessarily the ball handler. Works great in pickups and everyone will like playing with you.
This video is more about the next level of that. That is usually the baseline of how to get non-shooters involved with the spacing. But they may have a great asset about them like being able to finish with size/length if they get moving. So a good way to take advantage of the shooters' gravity for non-shooters are well placed cuts.
9:43 vicious hit by gobert. slammed his mouth right into embiids elbow.
Should have covered DHOs for non-shooters. Very efficient option as well
There's a recent one by 6Man about the Kings and they talk about Huerter's scoring off DHOs
Its been a thing for awhile. Though DHOs to better shooters who can cut are overall better options. I think the Pels bust out a DHO (from a shooter) to Zion every now and then.
6:59 HOLY. SHIT. That previous kings cut with "velvet pass" was a work of art 🎨😍
you learn something new everyday, thank you man
Giannas is him frfr
Great analysis.
AmaZing video as always 👏
Great vid
Great video well done.
Thanks for the vid
this is a great video. I learned many amazing things from it. The most important thing I learned, however, was the fact that although the Knicks and Pistons franchises have both been a part of the NBA since the 1940s, this was the first playoff meeting between the two teams. They've only met twice more in the playoffs since in 1990 and 1992.
This reminds me a lot of playing Rec in 2k vs a man defense. This is why everyone on there goes 2-3 to always have paint protection.
This makes me wanna go the gym and play a couple games
Amazing analysis
Great breakdown
These vids r the best by far analysis u could never get years ago
The editing is godlike.
This is amazing
Amazing video I’m going to start using this in pick up lol
great vid
4:46 Gosh, i have chess thoughts swirling around my head!!! This is so exciting! It's like Transcendental cat but with routes.
Ben, the GOAT
Not that AG can’t shoot, but his evolution as a cutter and off-ball mover in Denver has been a joy to watch
As a defense, isn’t just a quick adjustment to not close out on a bad shooter and protect the rim? Especially in compressed spaces, it’s sometimes just a matter of rotating your body (for example at 7:07 Kornet does give a good contest)
you answered the question! bravo, what are the other top factors you see in making this the most efficient offensive season in history?
for real though im very happy this mechanism exists to make the game not just about spamming 3 point shots and getting good luck on jumpshots or spamming contracts on good shooters
Smart, bull rush the rim and just dunk it most of the time or lay it in. Use the size they have.
Awesome video!
At first I thought the comment "Open since 2021" under the percentages was meant as a way to jokingly point out that the player has been open for a long time lol.
This is what I've been saying with the Bucks for years. Apart from having above-average shooters, they also have a lot of length and speed compared to most teams. Not to mention, 3 players in the starting lineup in the form of Jrue, Middleton, and Lopez who can score mid-range. The key isn't to Moreyball at that state, it's to use those physical advantages to out-maneuver defenders with *on top* of your perimeter-based shooting.
I think there are so many Creative ways to open up an opportunity without the ball while you minus the content of 3 point shooting. I think the 45 cut & stampede action is a great example, but the ability to grab offensive rebounds would be a huge additional piece to go with the 45 cut because you’re in pursuit while the defense has its back turned.
You’ll likely have the same opportunity to gain more position if you apply change of direction & take advantage of your defenders eyes.
What a great video idea in today's NBA
6:15 An obvious counter to that it's just antecipate the cutting lanes, ignore the 3s, even ignore the players until they show up in the expected place. The team and your position, where you're facing, tells them where they should attack.
Basketball is ever-evolving that is why it's beautiful.
Jokic is the only one who doesn't travel, he immediately put the ball on the floor while he catches it
2 point percentages around the league have risen for the 8th year in a row, and this is the first year in the 3 point era that 2 pointers have become more efficient than 3 pointers, 1.09 ppp vs 1.074 ppp. You're also more likely to get fouled on 2 point attempts, which further adds to its efficiency.
Fultz is getting really good at this
Jason Tatum was doing this 3 years ago before he started a season of midrange heavy isos. He would catch the ball as he was moving and it made him a freight train.
Basketball is just like chess. You only understand what is really happening when you look at it carefully and study it
I remember making a art piece with basketball players replacing chess pieces on a chess board bakc in hs
I got a good grade on it
That’s why I love basketball so much. It’s a game within a game
Moving without the ball has always been the core of most plays. It's so beautiful to watch.
My advice for people who don’t have a shot is to make a 100 shot workout and do it every 1-2 days, trust me when I say in a weeks span you will be able to just throw the ball up and it will go in.
Imagine being an NBA coach and not being subscribed to this channel
3+D works with a player with gravity to draw defender. It can efficient based on stats but what is better? Easy buckets from passing, cutting and screening.
That's why knowing who is supposed to rotate where is very important. It's the anchors job to direct the rotation.
Wow move into open space what a concept lls
make a video on bam, he’s the miami heats entire defensive system and offense (with screens and passing and his rim pressure) and how he should be a dpoy candidate and an allstsr
edit PLEEEEEASE 🙏🏾
Yes plz, he deserves it. He’s having his best offensive season averaging 20 & 10 and leads the league in points in the paint, and can lock up anybody’s best player
Bro you Nailed it. He is the heart of the heat. We just need a competent stretch pf or a really good wing to compete with the bucks or Celtics.
Currently has the most points in the paint this season
D wade was really good at this as well
This feels like the natural optimization of weaponizing the 3 point line. Defenses are going to need a lot of help in this overwhelming era of offense.
I feel like this is the basketball channel for basketball geniuses
But I thought that was basketball 101. You’re suppose to cut period even if you’re a shooter but the league fell in love with the 3 so much that now a video about cutting is a new revolution. Come on man! Cutting has always made it easier on the game. It makes me feel like we have way more shooters and scorers in the game than play makers and cutters.
So basically, teams are just now starting to catch up to the Warriors motion offense?
I think the playing style of the nba will go full circle
Darvin Ham should watch these videos with Rob Pelinka
Crazy how Zion is shooting 60%fg and scoring like 27ppg with non shooters around him that clog the lane
I'm researching for westbrook, he's got to be able to do this more
Literally I have been doing this in NBA 2K cutting a player to the basket in that open space. It's effective
Joel needs to see this video
at first I thought you were joking by saying teams have been leaving Giannis wide open from 3 since 2021 😭
A new technique I should try on the court..
1:35 Insane it took so many years to notice something right in their face!
3:04 Even though it's a game of counters is surprising it werent noticed right away, maybe sprinting INTO defense or protected paint felt antithetical to all that effort for easy open looks that were the aim for years. If it were death note i think they would notice right after creating the open style. Also cutting being a forgotten gem is mind blowing, guess teams need a historian now.
Basically a De-volution of the way the game has been going for some time. Gotta love Variety and Balance