If you've never seen the whole thing, the entire "practice" press conference is incredible: ua-cam.com/video/K9ZQhyOZCNE/v-deo.html For context, there are claims he was a bit tipsy during the press conference. AI's best friend had passed away during the season, and there were trade rumors after a disappointing 1st round exit... www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29143112/the-little-known-story-allen-iverson-practice-rant
Ya think *that* was good (ok, it was), find the followup press conference by AI's mom and a couple of her friends... She did that a day or two later, defending AI's rant.
When the NBA started resting stars more to limit their usage and maximize their productivity I thought about Allen Iverson. A man his size, who played as fast and hard as he did led the NBA in minutes per game 7 times. The only player to do it more was Wilt Chamberlain (9 times), who was a physical freak. Next in line behind Iverson are LeBron James and Michael Finley with 3 each. I would love to have seen him in a system/era that understood usage better, I think we'd have a different view of him and just how incredible he was.
I think rules that protect the shooter and the elimination of hand checking should also be discussed, to shoot well from behind the arc you need space. Where as post up Mid-range shots you can use strength to generate the space to get a decent look. But you can't really do that from behind the arc you need to use your strength and mechanics to shoot the ball, you can't sacrifice as much that far away from the hoop, and hand checking and not allowing a player to land made shots outside the three point line harder. Of course that's only part of the story, because shooting mechanics and fundemtals are also different stepping into a two motion form as opposed to utilizing a hop to get a shot off because of forward momentum to try to get a defender off balance for a pull up now your guaranteed space, if a defender is in a shooter airspace they can be called for a foul. So generation of good 3 point looks have become a lot easier so coaches emphisize practicing catch and shoot behind three point line a lot more.
Your videos are ridiculously good. I can tell you put on a lot of effort during a very long period of time into the study of basketball. I'm glad you decided to share your knowledge with us.
@@avoiredranger110 I know😔. It’s because people are stupid and they’d rather see “pre 2000s players are plumbers haha Lebron 🐐, Tyler hero is a BUCKET 👀”
Tom Chambers was the first NBA player standing 6'10 or taller to attempt at least one 3 point shot per game, which he did in 1986-87, averaging nearly two 3pt attempts per game and making 37% of them.
That is more of a testament to his coach than to him. Dražen Petrović was a guard who shot 45% from 3 and he wasn't even allowed 3 three point shots per game because NBA coaches were very smart back then /s
He does practice them. He's just terrified of failing and looking bad in live games. Something he's gotta get over if he ever wants to elevate his career to the next level.
I still can’t wrap my head around that Harden 2019 year when he took 13 threes and took 11 free throws per game. How u take a lot of 3s and get to the free throw line so much? Never cared about analytics before that Harden dominance but I started to understand the modern NBA better based on that year alone
@@anthonycelestin3559 He took a lot of contested stepback 3s and got fouled on some of them, and you know a foul on a 3 pt shot warrants 3 FTAs, so he prolly didn't care about making them shots so much than just drawing the foul.
If you watch the colonels they really played more modern than even teams of the 90s you'd see more motion more shooting more screen plays with the dampier/ Gilmore tandem
@@canucksfever for sure is depending on the situation. For example, if the offense has an extra player on a fast break (2 on 1, 3 on 2, etc.) and the defense focuses in on defending the guys closest to the rim, then a 3 isn't a terrible idea.
This kind of video is why I watch this channel and it's a great example of why UA-cam is waaaay better than the usual TV talking heads on sports shows. It's intelligent research and informed opinion, instead of some "personality" loudly yelling at some other guys, "I think shooting was way better back in my day, and here's why...also Lebron is good/bad".
I think, when comparing eras, the converse has to be taken into account as well. If today's players spend more time practicing the three, it stands to reason that yesterday's players spent more time practicing post moves, lay-ups, etc. It goes both ways.
I think the effect of that would be less though, because those shots are objectively easier, being much closer to the hoop. You don’t need as much practice to get good at a 10 foot jumper as a 25 foot jumper.
@@docd2295 it's not just a 10 foot jumper; it's balance, footwork, etc. I wouldn't say Karl Anthony Towns' offensive game takes more practice than Olajuwon's did, despite it being, on average, much farther from the basket.
@@mikegribanov6105 Increasing your scoring volume can decrease your overall efficiency but when it comes to 3 point shooting particularly, when transitioning from analytics, increasing your 3 point volume will increase your 3 point efficiency. Look at Michael Jordan, an 83% free throw shooter . His early seasons he was shooting 17-18% from 3 point but on 0.6-1 attempts a game so they were probably full/half court heaves or chucks at the end of the shot clock. When you look at his highest volume 3 point seasons, those were the seasons where his most efficient. 42 and 37% with a shortened 3 point line and 35 and 37% with a normal 3 point line on 3 attempts a game. As a matter of fact, Jordan never shot under 35%, when he took two more 3's a game. How about magic Johnson, an 85% free throw shooter ? Same story . 17-20% early in his career on .4 attempts and then in 89-90 where he took 3.5 attempts , he shot 38% from 3. Let's take Lamarcus Aldridge a modern player for example. He's an 81% FT shooter. Last season , took .5 attempts a game on 23% and then finally took the plunge into morey ball this season and is now shooting 38% on 3 attempts a game. When it becomes a rhythm shot for players, they actually shoot better. It's Further from the basket, so less contested than long 2's and is a higher value shot than a long 2.
@@NothingElseMattersJM what are you talking about ? There was 6 players in the league that made 3.5 or more 3s last year. Trae Young made 3.4.. In order to average 3-4 more points a game Garnett would have to turn 3-4 of his made 2 point shots into three point shots, since a 3 is one point more than a 2. Considering I'm not even sure KG averaged 3-4 made jump shots per game period, I highly doubt hed be one of half a dozen most voluminous 3pt shooters in the league
@@mikegribanov6105 I never said he would make 3.5 3’s a game.I said he’d be shooting more at a higher %. Nowhere did I say a power forward is going to shoot as many 3’s as Trae Young. What are you talking about KG didn’t make 3-4 jumpshot a a game? You clearly never watched him play lol.
“Mannn we talking about practice mannnn” “Not a game, not a game, but pracccccticeeeee” If this is true than Dwight Howard is lazy ASF mans could’ve had a good 3 by now 😂😭 cough cough: Demar DeRozan
Dwight apprently told a reporter that he could shoot it consintantly in a gym but doesnt shoot it in a game because he gets nervous and gets cold feet derozan is truely inexcusable tho
This video featured two of my fave shooters: Mark Price and Glen Rice. Those dudes were deadeye shooters. Ray Allen and Klay Thompson are as close to perfect shooters as you can get stylistically speaking. Their form and follow thru are nearly flawless.
I don't like the current NBA play style, no more skillful low post and mid range, just abusing low percentage 3s and create space for easy lay-ups. Fans are paying to watch super stars skillful plays like Kobe/Wade/Dirk, not for role players shooting open 3s which everyone can do.
great video. important concept. I'd argue shooting form standardization especially among upcoming big men could have a profound effect on the game though, which is another practice based evolution.
I miss seeing a variety of scoring strategies in the NBA, the increased use of the 3 point shot has made the NBA less creative offensively. I feel the three point line should be modified. Instead of curving around to the corners - the three point line should be painted straight horizontally across the court (23'9 feet at center). This would make it more a "specialty shot" like it used to be (less common). And it would increase the effectiveness of players who develop strong post and midrange games. Most importantly it makes watching basketball less predictable and boring (as it is when players hover only on the perimeter). It opens the game to more variety of offensive strategy, it separates the truly unique 3 point bombers from the average shooters and it makes the 3 point shot special again.
I must say I really like how it allows golden state type offenses to space the floor fluidly, with cuts and motion leading to jaw-dropping shots, as opposed to just backing down in the post every time. How would spacing work with no three point shot? Fair point though I see where you’re coming from
@@jaymz18 Regarding spacing - I'm not proposing to get rid of the three point line - i'm proposing that the line not wrap around in an arc shape to the corners - but instead, be a straight line horizontal across the court. What this does primarily is decrease the analytical value of the 3 point shot - by getting rid of the highest percentage area of the court (the corners). It means PJ tucker can't just hang out in the corner and shoot threes (those would only count as two from that spot on the court). It means we wouldn't see teams assembled like the Rockets (because 3 pointers are harder to make at a high percentage). It means players like Giannis, Simmons, Embiid wouldn't be pressured to learn how to hit a 3 in order to stay relevant. In short - the 3 point shot holds too much influence and power over the game - because players have become better shooters - and so the shot itself needs to be made harder. Warriors basketball (which I love also) would still exist, players wouldn't post everytime, they would simply post more. Right now analytics tell coaches post players are not as efficient as three point shots - that's a problem for Centers primarily. So this is me looking out for centers and making sure there is value in every skill set (not just shooting 3s). But I agree with you - I wouldn't want to see post back downs "everytime" either - the goal in the end is to create enough variety and room on the court for as many unique skill sets as the NBA players have to offer.
Crazy how I was watching a playoff game earlier from 2011 with stats showing Memphis last in 3pa with just 10 a game. Nowadays that's how much some stars shoot in a single half.
I've always been a shooter but there's something different bout watching post play, I miss it. It's rare now. Now you get towns vs Embiid and they're chucking up threes
That's one thing I dislike about the current game -- not just less post play but also few medium range Js. Sure the 3 is an additional point, but it seems like a lot of players have just given up on 2s. One sets up the other -- if you only shoot 3s I think you're leaving money on the table.
I watch a Thinking Basketball video and leave not only more informed and better equipped for intelligent basketball conversations, but more mentally and emotionally sound, and more spiritually pure and fulfilled.
Lakers broke the record for 3-pointers made in the NBA Finals = 84 made. 🤣🤣🤣 This off 239 ATTEMPTS. Total opposite mentality from the Regular Season. Lakers ranked 23rd (30 NBA teams) in ATTEMPTS per game. 21st in percentage made. Moral of the story, Lakers need an improvement over Danny Green.
This number didn't really address the TYPES of threes being taken now. Before the Splash Brothers, the only people I saw consistently make off the dribble threes were Stockton, Price and Hornacek. Now, there are a TON of players that can do it.
I feel like this video omitted a proper discussion about defence. Just off the top of my head, what difference does zone vs man marking make on 3pt attempts and makes? What about hip checking? I would guess that defense is, on average, tougher on outside shots today than it was in the 90s, for instance, when the focus was more about the painted area. Perhaps you considered all of this stuff and it ended up being negligible on the final data, but I would have appreciated a short discussion of it! Nonetheless, another great video
I agree, and also would like to point out that the concept of "spacing" is a premium in today's league. And the best way to create spacing is to have an 3pt threat who can make multiple 3's if you leave him open. You just don't get that with a long 2.
@@michaelhwang6025 That's a very good point. Duncan Robinson was consistently valuable in the finals even when not taking any shots for exactly that reason
we need to talk about how shooting form has changed just like the volume of shots taken have changed. guys used two motion shots before that was good for midrange but now three point shooters use one motion shots that are good for three point shooting. that is just as big a factor as volume of attempts.
Volume more than anything. Magic Johnson an 85% free throw point shooter shot 17-20% from 3 on .4 attempts a game in his early seasons. When he took 3.5 attempts a game in 89-90, he shot 38% from 3 lol.
BRILLIANT!!! thanks for this vid, ben. long time listener/viewer, and i always feel comfort when you wish us a great day at the end :) as always, your basketball (and life) insights aren’t terrible lol.
Video idea: ranking (or tiers) the best "sharpshooters" in the NBA the past few years up until now - including their overall game / overall value to a team, not just their shooting And not necessarily just 3 and D guys, so including players like Duncan Robinson who's not exactly a "D" guy at the moment And also assuming everyone's healthy, factoring in injuries after
Just did some quick research into Louie Dampier. Didn't know he led the ABA in all-time points and assists. I wonder if anyone ever asked why he took fewer 3s?
"The game plan changed when we finally started getting the big guys," Dampier said. "Getting the ball inside, even though it wasn't said 'hey Louie, take less 3s,' but there was an emphasis on getting the ball into the big guys to make our offense more effective."
@@57wookie ah I see. Although if you've got an Artis Gilmore sooting 58% FG, 62% TS, I don't think even by the modern lens people would really complain.
Its the unicorns that are breaking the game . There is nothing you can do when both Lebron and AD are shooting 40% from 3 . I wonder how much better Wilt Hakeem would have been had he worked on his 3 pointer. He had great touch and was great from the mid range ,even long mid range. He would have won more chips for sure killing other teams with hyper efficient and unpredictable scoring while opening up the floor for others.
Lebron hasnt shot anywhere near 40 percent from 3 since one outlier season in 2013 lol. Davis has never even shot 35 percent from three over a whole season.
Back in the day, players were paid based on performance. So, risking your fg percentage on a long jump shot could cost you money when your contract was up... Plus, ego played alot into taking jump shots. Jump shooters didn't get the respect of players, who based everything on getting to the basket. It's tough getting to the basket. It's easy to launch a jump shot. Jump shots were for white guys and black players attacked the basket. Today the best players can score from all levels and quadrants or areas. No player should isolate just taking threes or just going to the basket. Being well rounded, you can score from anywhere and you can't be easily guarded... if you just master the fundamentals.
This also goes hand in hand with how you defend the shot, as more 3s are being taken the better the players are at defending it making the average % level out or even decline.
It would be extremely interesting to see a more guard focus video that digs into the distance the best sharpshooters are yanking the ball up from and how that has impacted spacing on defense
NBA players may have picked up higher in the hand check allowed era which discouraged 3s in the pace hot era of late 70s and 80s the point was from a defensive standpoint was to make a point guard initiate an offense more distant from the rim as low post play was emphasized. This lengthened passes wing to post and corner. The aba was not as physical a league and was more transition game oriented little louie seized this moment of daylight and rang it up. All this said it would be interesting to see an analysis of the rock hard D of Detroit in the 2004 season who stymied the 3 point surge with perimeter defenders . Ft shooting % hasn't dramatically improved as a league average as much as 3 pt shooting so whether unguarded or should I say UNHANDCHECKED 3 POINT SHOOTING HAS IMPROVED % WISE unguarded and UNHANDCHECKED fts have remained about the same 75% bumped to 77%
I mean lets be honest here, obviously shooting has gotten better because if you ask me if i'm taking two sharpshooters in ray allen or andre iguodala IM TAKIN IGWODALA
The 3 point shooting form is much more like Bill Sharman than Elvin Hayes. In the 60's, the key was a quick, high release to get the shot off in traffic. In the 50's, they shot from the chest to get more momentum. Curry would have suffered a lot of blocked shots before the 3 pointer.
I often wonder how coaches, fans, and press would react if you transported 2020 Steph or Harden or Dame back to 1981 and unleashed them in that NBA. Obviously it would be mind blowing, but would people recognize the value?
Your crusade for getting Aron Baynes' basketball-reference nickname updated marches on. I'm not sure this whole video wasn't just a subtle ploy to sink "Tippy Toes" Baynes in to a few more peoples' head.
This is why i do not watch nba from after around 2005. Boring 3pt shooting fest. Everybody stay in one place and shoot 3s.boring. And... Because of So many games in youtube i do not have to.
They'll never do it, but the NBA needs to widen the court and move the line back. It's boring to watch a bunch of guys standing around the line waiting for the ball.
So, chasing players off the line into long twos leads to a significantly less valuable shot due to less practice of them? Or maybe it isn't a mutually exclusive thing. Players still practice long twos in addition to the three-point shot.
Every sport is different Basketball you have to get the right work on the ball and put it through a little bitty hole, How do you spell all you really have to do is hit the mitt and throw strikes. And if you throw a 90mph fastball and they connect with the force of the bat, it’s gone if you hit it right with out taking out the picture, ball right back at him, so usually an outside you wait and take it the other way, inside pitches you have to turn on it and drive it to left field. See Basketball you have to have the right arc on it and then life throws a curve ball in baseball
When I was a kid I remember a reporter asking Dr J to compare himself to Rick Barry and he said the higher percentage shots are near the basket. He saw his reluctance to shoot outside as a superiority.
i think in terms of the ted talk he would consider the three point line as the technological device that has increased the human ability to shoot from deep. it’s a reward system used as a technological advancement. but practice is always what fills the gap. the technology didn’t make people faster. practice and the technological advancement made them improve 100 times
I think you have to factor in the hand checking in the 80s and 90s too. The shots were definitely more contested back in the day, which may mean that the essential shooting skill (what I am calling it) was actually higher then. Just based on the eye test, it is pretty incredible how Steph and Trae Young can almost pull from anywhere passed half court, but it was also pretty impressive how Bird, Reggie Miller, and other great midrange shooters back in the day were pretty automatic coming off floppy sets and pin downs. I think you're right though that what the player practiced most translated into how they played on the court.
You also can it is a result of players shifting from shooting 2 motion shots with some hang in the air compared to the todays more 1 motion quick and less lift on shot
Fantastic video. As a community league coach, I can testify that young kids "self-practice' 3pt shooting way more than any other shooting.. or anything else really. You'll see a 11 year old trying to huff the ball at the 19'9" High School range for hours at a time at a rec center, but almost never see them line up 10' at baseline or at the 15' freethrow line and work on basic shot form. A lot of coaches try to help kids work on the short range fundamentals, however it seems like a losing battle as players spend almost all their free-time heaving 3pt attempts well before they are physically large enough to do it with proper technique. Now with everyone and their dog preaching 5 out offense even at pre-teen levels... which is an offense that relies on drives to open up kick-out 3pt shots.. there are a ton of kids who have terrible form and are pretty much just used for setting screens and maybe chasing rebounds. The flood gates are well past the point of return.. so this is just an old guy coach shaking his fist in the air... however I can understand how old school college and NBA coaches were not big fans of focusing on a 3pt centric game for such a long time.
I agree, and I see it more and more this decade as we get kids coming into the MS/HS or U15/U17 age teams who have terrible shooting form, bad shooting habits, etc. and yet are convinced they should be able to jack up reckless threes at will. One thing that I have found is that when you get a player today who is willing to practice post moves and can receive the ball in the low post, very few opponents can guard them effectively without fouling. Just some basic pivots and fakes can turn a willing player into the high school equivalent of Kevin McHale or Akeem Olajuwon compared to his or her peers, because his or her peers don't see or have to defend that sort of game regularly.
If you've never seen the whole thing, the entire "practice" press conference is incredible: ua-cam.com/video/K9ZQhyOZCNE/v-deo.html
For context, there are claims he was a bit tipsy during the press conference. AI's best friend had passed away during the season, and there were trade rumors after a disappointing 1st round exit... www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29143112/the-little-known-story-allen-iverson-practice-rant
Ya think *that* was good (ok, it was), find the followup press conference by AI's mom and a couple of her friends... She did that a day or two later, defending AI's rant.
When the NBA started resting stars more to limit their usage and maximize their productivity I thought about Allen Iverson. A man his size, who played as fast and hard as he did led the NBA in minutes per game 7 times. The only player to do it more was Wilt Chamberlain (9 times), who was a physical freak. Next in line behind Iverson are LeBron James and Michael Finley with 3 each.
I would love to have seen him in a system/era that understood usage better, I think we'd have a different view of him and just how incredible he was.
11:20 Hypothetically, if that 4pt line was in place for a decade, would it be fair to "punish" those players in that decade for not utilizing it?
I think rules that protect the shooter and the elimination of hand checking should also be discussed, to shoot well from behind the arc you need space. Where as post up Mid-range shots you can use strength to generate the space to get a decent look. But you can't really do that from behind the arc you need to use your strength and mechanics to shoot the ball, you can't sacrifice as much that far away from the hoop, and hand checking and not allowing a player to land made shots outside the three point line harder. Of course that's only part of the story, because shooting mechanics and fundemtals are also different stepping into a two motion form as opposed to utilizing a hop to get a shot off because of forward momentum to try to get a defender off balance for a pull up now your guaranteed space, if a defender is in a shooter airspace they can be called for a foul. So generation of good 3 point looks have become a lot easier so coaches emphisize practicing catch and shoot behind three point line a lot more.
Qq
Your videos are ridiculously good. I can tell you put on a lot of effort during a very long period of time into the study of basketball. I'm glad you decided to share your knowledge with us.
It's unbelievable that this channel has few subscribers
@@avoiredranger110 I know😔. It’s because people are stupid and they’d rather see “pre 2000s players are plumbers haha Lebron 🐐, Tyler hero is a BUCKET 👀”
I mean it is called “Thinking Basketball”. Not tryna look like a dick just tryna make a joke
That sync up at the end of you saying “practice” with AI was so satisfying for some reason.
Thx for spoiling
Pause
So we are talking bout practice then?
Are we still talking about practice in 2020? Practice?
@@reagannichols8659 I always read the comments after watching the video, this is why...
Tom Chambers was the first NBA player standing 6'10 or taller to attempt at least one 3 point shot per game, which he did in 1986-87, averaging nearly two 3pt attempts per game and making 37% of them.
That is more of a testament to his coach than to him. Dražen Petrović was a guard who shot 45% from 3 and he wasn't even allowed 3 three point shots per game because NBA coaches were very smart back then /s
*Sees video title
Ben Simmons: Aight imma head out
He does practice them. He's just terrified of failing and looking bad in live games. Something he's gotta get over if he ever wants to elevate his career to the next level.
@@AchillesWrath1 he’s just “5 3pa per game” distance from being a superstar.
Happy that Aron Baynes is getting coverage on your channel, definitely the greatest ever
Best ginger in the nba??
@@tjlevey378 best* in general
@@frinky21 😂 Fax. Everyone’s favorite player
@@frinky21 hold up, Brian Scalabrine!!!
@@sharifbrown3567 thats what I was gonna say 😂😂 the red mamba has already been forgotten 😤.
40 is a big number, James Har-
Wait what do you mean that's not the intro
He tried to finish the rest of the sentence in the playoffs but came up short like harden
I still can’t wrap my head around that Harden 2019 year when he took 13 threes and took 11 free throws per game. How u take a lot of 3s and get to the free throw line so much? Never cared about analytics before that Harden dominance but I started to understand the modern NBA better based on that year alone
@@tjlevey378 Kawhi was asked by Lebron
Lebron : Give that guy a map where are you going?
Kawhi:Raptors
@@cia6520 “What’s this big red X next to LA you coming to play with me?!😁” -LBJ
*Insert Kawhi Laughing meme*
@@anthonycelestin3559 He took a lot of contested stepback 3s and got fouled on some of them, and you know a foul on a 3 pt shot warrants 3 FTAs, so he prolly didn't care about making them shots so much than just drawing the foul.
Louie Dampier was a trailblazer. Thank you, you're one of the few UA-camrs to ever cite him!
He was shooting threes on Fastbreaks in the 1970s!
If you watch the colonels they really played more modern than even teams of the 90s you'd see more motion more shooting more screen plays with the dampier/ Gilmore tandem
Is that even advised today? With the exception of S Curry...
I tried to track Louie down but he's hard to find.
@@canucksfever for sure is depending on the situation. For example, if the offense has an extra player on a fast break (2 on 1, 3 on 2, etc.) and the defense focuses in on defending the guys closest to the rim, then a 3 isn't a terrible idea.
This kind of video is why I watch this channel and it's a great example of why UA-cam is waaaay better than the usual TV talking heads on sports shows. It's intelligent research and informed opinion, instead of some "personality" loudly yelling at some other guys, "I think shooting was way better back in my day, and here's why...also Lebron is good/bad".
It all has a place
Skip, stephen A etc is just entertainment, not meant to be taken seriously
@@moltenn7 creates hella casuals though
Day 452 of getting ridiculously hyped everyday this man drops some heat 🔥🔥🔥
I think, when comparing eras, the converse has to be taken into account as well. If today's players spend more time practicing the three, it stands to reason that yesterday's players spent more time practicing post moves, lay-ups, etc. It goes both ways.
Or their off-season jobs if you go back a while . . .
Thats why ThinkingBasketball compares era relative impact. Its the only thing thats actually measurable.
I think the effect of that would be less though, because those shots are objectively easier, being much closer to the hoop. You don’t need as much practice to get good at a 10 foot jumper as a 25 foot jumper.
I'm way late to the party but this was exactly what I thought watching this.
@@docd2295 it's not just a 10 foot jumper; it's balance, footwork, etc. I wouldn't say Karl Anthony Towns' offensive game takes more practice than Olajuwon's did, despite it being, on average, much farther from the basket.
People who say players back then would shoot all bricks from three today need to see this.
*Thinking Basketball releases a new video
*Happy Basketball fan noises*
Always wonder how much a better scorer KG would've been if he made the move behind the line. Probably another 3-4 ppg.
Definitely, also young KG could handle the ball at times so he'll have more room to dominate too
I doubt hed average 3.5 3FGM per game
@@mikegribanov6105 Increasing your scoring volume can decrease your overall efficiency but when it comes to 3 point shooting particularly, when transitioning from analytics, increasing your 3 point volume will increase your 3 point efficiency.
Look at Michael Jordan, an 83% free throw shooter . His early seasons he was shooting 17-18% from 3 point but on 0.6-1 attempts a game so they were probably full/half court heaves or chucks at the end of the shot clock. When you look at his highest volume 3 point seasons, those were the seasons where his most efficient. 42 and 37% with a shortened 3 point line and 35 and 37% with a normal 3 point line on 3 attempts a game. As a matter of fact, Jordan never shot under 35%, when he took two more 3's a game.
How about magic Johnson, an 85% free throw shooter ? Same story . 17-20% early in his career on .4 attempts and then in 89-90 where he took 3.5 attempts , he shot 38% from 3.
Let's take Lamarcus Aldridge a modern player for example. He's an 81% FT shooter. Last season , took .5 attempts a game on 23% and then finally took the plunge into morey ball this season and is now shooting 38% on 3 attempts a game.
When it becomes a rhythm shot for players, they actually shoot better. It's Further from the basket, so less contested than long 2's and is a higher value shot than a long 2.
@@NothingElseMattersJM what are you talking about ? There was 6 players in the league that made 3.5 or more 3s last year. Trae Young made 3.4.. In order to average 3-4 more points a game Garnett would have to turn 3-4 of his made 2 point shots into three point shots, since a 3 is one point more than a 2. Considering I'm not even sure KG averaged 3-4 made jump shots per game period, I highly doubt hed be one of half a dozen most voluminous 3pt shooters in the league
@@mikegribanov6105 I never said he would make 3.5 3’s a game.I said he’d be shooting more at a higher %. Nowhere did I say a power forward is going to shoot as many 3’s as Trae Young. What are you talking about KG didn’t make 3-4 jumpshot a a game? You clearly never watched him play lol.
“Mannn we talking about practice mannnn”
“Not a game, not a game, but pracccccticeeeee”
If this is true than Dwight Howard is lazy ASF mans could’ve had a good 3 by now 😂😭 cough cough: Demar DeRozan
@Chikolum omg that shot made me so happy for him 😂😂
Dwight apprently told a reporter that he could shoot it consintantly in a gym but doesnt shoot it in a game because he gets nervous and gets cold feet derozan is truely inexcusable tho
@@sarperkizilkaya4531 yeah demar could be so good ‼️‼️
@@tjlevey378 Derozan is good at threes when he shoots a lot of them, he just prefers to dominate the midrange
@@jeremyhalla1757 Yeah. He had a season that was above average from 3. He can shoot them, but for some reason he doesn't.
This video featured two of my fave shooters: Mark Price and Glen Rice. Those dudes were deadeye shooters. Ray Allen and Klay Thompson are as close to perfect shooters as you can get stylistically speaking. Their form and follow thru are nearly flawless.
I don't like the current NBA play style, no more skillful low post and mid range, just abusing low percentage 3s and create space for easy lay-ups. Fans are paying to watch super stars skillful plays like Kobe/Wade/Dirk, not for role players shooting open 3s which everyone can do.
Why would you use "3's per 75 possessions" as a stat to try and grab our attention? That just obfuscates the point you're trying to make.
Hey hey, Baynesie might’ve been born in New Zealand but were claiming him as an Aussie. So get it right 😣
Awesome video! Can you do one about the actual shooting mechanics and how it has evolved through the years? That would be something to see
fun fact: Aaron Baynes has the suns's record for most 3's in game😈
great video. important concept. I'd argue shooting form standardization especially among upcoming big men could have a profound effect on the game though, which is another practice based evolution.
I miss seeing a variety of scoring strategies in the NBA, the increased use of the 3 point shot has made the NBA less creative offensively. I feel the three point line should be modified. Instead of curving around to the corners - the three point line should be painted straight horizontally across the court (23'9 feet at center). This would make it more a "specialty shot" like it used to be (less common). And it would increase the effectiveness of players who develop strong post and midrange games. Most importantly it makes watching basketball less predictable and boring (as it is when players hover only on the perimeter). It opens the game to more variety of offensive strategy, it separates the truly unique 3 point bombers from the average shooters and it makes the 3 point shot special again.
I must say I really like how it allows golden state type offenses to space the floor fluidly, with cuts and motion leading to jaw-dropping shots, as opposed to just backing down in the post every time. How would spacing work with no three point shot? Fair point though I see where you’re coming from
@@jaymz18 Regarding spacing - I'm not proposing to get rid of the three point line - i'm proposing that the line not wrap around in an arc shape to the corners - but instead, be a straight line horizontal across the court. What this does primarily is decrease the analytical value of the 3 point shot - by getting rid of the highest percentage area of the court (the corners). It means PJ tucker can't just hang out in the corner and shoot threes (those would only count as two from that spot on the court). It means we wouldn't see teams assembled like the Rockets (because 3 pointers are harder to make at a high percentage). It means players like Giannis, Simmons, Embiid wouldn't be pressured to learn how to hit a 3 in order to stay relevant. In short - the 3 point shot holds too much influence and power over the game - because players have become better shooters - and so the shot itself needs to be made harder. Warriors basketball (which I love also) would still exist, players wouldn't post everytime, they would simply post more. Right now analytics tell coaches post players are not as efficient as three point shots - that's a problem for Centers primarily. So this is me looking out for centers and making sure there is value in every skill set (not just shooting 3s). But I agree with you - I wouldn't want to see post back downs "everytime" either - the goal in the end is to create enough variety and room on the court for as many unique skill sets as the NBA players have to offer.
Crazy how I was watching a playoff game earlier from 2011 with stats showing Memphis last in 3pa with just 10 a game. Nowadays that's how much some stars shoot in a single half.
The 2011 Mavericks changed the league with 3s. They broke all the records that year
I've always been a shooter but there's something different bout watching post play, I miss it. It's rare now. Now you get towns vs Embiid and they're chucking up threes
That's one thing I dislike about the current game -- not just less post play but also few medium range Js. Sure the 3 is an additional point, but it seems like a lot of players have just given up on 2s. One sets up the other -- if you only shoot 3s I think you're leaving money on the table.
I watch a Thinking Basketball video and leave not only more informed and better equipped for intelligent basketball conversations, but more mentally and emotionally sound, and more spiritually pure and fulfilled.
YES HE POSTED
Looool why tf was Wilt shooting his free throws from so damn far
Skrong
I don't know, but he did it constantly in Los Angeles and it cracked me up every time.
@@ThinkingBasketball Loool this guy was shooting 3s before it was cool
Matthew Isabella he too strong normal free throw clack on the board
Lakers broke the record for 3-pointers made in the NBA Finals = 84 made. 🤣🤣🤣
This off 239 ATTEMPTS.
Total opposite mentality from the Regular Season.
Lakers ranked 23rd (30 NBA teams) in ATTEMPTS per game.
21st in percentage made.
Moral of the story, Lakers need an improvement over Danny Green.
This number didn't really address the TYPES of threes being taken now. Before the Splash Brothers, the only people I saw consistently make off the dribble threes were Stockton, Price and Hornacek. Now, there are a TON of players that can do it.
7 three point attempts by a player in 1969 is crazy. PS I was inspired to start making NBA videos too🥶
Man, we need Thinking Basketball and JxmyHighRoller to collab one day. These charts has been their forte and that's great and mesmerizing.
I feel like this video omitted a proper discussion about defence. Just off the top of my head, what difference does zone vs man marking make on 3pt attempts and makes? What about hip checking? I would guess that defense is, on average, tougher on outside shots today than it was in the 90s, for instance, when the focus was more about the painted area. Perhaps you considered all of this stuff and it ended up being negligible on the final data, but I would have appreciated a short discussion of it! Nonetheless, another great video
I agree, and also would like to point out that the concept of "spacing" is a premium in today's league. And the best way to create spacing is to have an 3pt threat who can make multiple 3's if you leave him open. You just don't get that with a long 2.
@@michaelhwang6025 That's a very good point. Duncan Robinson was consistently valuable in the finals even when not taking any shots for exactly that reason
we need to talk about how shooting form has changed just like the volume of shots taken have changed. guys used two motion shots before that was good for midrange but now three point shooters use one motion shots that are good for three point shooting. that is just as big a factor as volume of attempts.
Really interesting.
Volume more than anything. Magic Johnson an 85% free throw point shooter shot 17-20% from 3 on .4 attempts a game in his early seasons. When he took 3.5 attempts a game in 89-90, he shot 38% from 3 lol.
how do you get access to all this basketball data?
That ray Allen three against the bulls was amazing
I just really admire your videos. Do you have a book? I’d buy it immediately
Yes! www.amazon.com/Thinking-Basketball-Ben-Taylor/dp/1532968175
@@ThinkingBasketball awesome!
BRILLIANT!!! thanks for this vid, ben. long time listener/viewer, and i always feel comfort when you wish us a great day at the end :) as always, your basketball (and life) insights aren’t terrible lol.
Imagine if AI actually went to practice and spent it practicing 3s.
Great video but you gotta go back to the old background music lol
Great stuff. Thanks for this beautiful work!
ARON BAYNES PROP BY THINKING BASKETBALL
Video idea: ranking (or tiers) the best "sharpshooters" in the NBA the past few years up until now - including their overall game / overall value to a team, not just their shooting
And not necessarily just 3 and D guys, so including players like Duncan Robinson who's not exactly a "D" guy at the moment
And also assuming everyone's healthy, factoring in injuries after
Just did some quick research into Louie Dampier. Didn't know he led the ABA in all-time points and assists. I wonder if anyone ever asked why he took fewer 3s?
"The game plan changed when we finally started getting the big guys," Dampier said. "Getting the ball inside, even though it wasn't said 'hey Louie, take less 3s,' but there was an emphasis on getting the ball into the big guys to make our offense more effective."
@@back2back379 in defense of the plan, they did wind up winning their first aba title in their later years i think 75
@@57wookie I don’t know why you’d have to defend it when I didn’t say anything against it. All I did was just literally quote him word for word.
@@back2back379 I'm sorry I wasn't saying you were, but I was just thinking that a modern lens would view that strategy unfavorably
@@57wookie ah I see. Although if you've got an Artis Gilmore sooting 58% FG, 62% TS, I don't think even by the modern lens people would really complain.
I could watch Steph shoot all day
Its the unicorns that are breaking the game . There is nothing you can do when both Lebron and AD are shooting 40% from 3 . I wonder how much better Wilt Hakeem would have been had he worked on his 3 pointer. He had great touch and was great from the mid range ,even long mid range. He would have won more chips for sure killing other teams with hyper efficient and unpredictable scoring while opening up the floor for others.
Lebron isn’t a good shooter lol
Lebron hasnt shot anywhere near 40 percent from 3 since one outlier season in 2013 lol. Davis has never even shot 35 percent from three over a whole season.
Practice... we talking about practice tho, not the game, practice. What are we talking about? Practice.
Aron 🐐 Baynes
Back in the day, players were paid based on performance. So, risking your fg percentage on a long jump shot could cost you money when your contract was up... Plus, ego played alot into taking jump shots. Jump shooters didn't get the respect of players, who based everything on getting to the basket. It's tough getting to the basket. It's easy to launch a jump shot. Jump shots were for white guys and black players attacked the basket. Today the best players can score from all levels and quadrants or areas. No player should isolate just taking threes or just going to the basket. Being well rounded, you can score from anywhere and you can't be easily guarded... if you just master the fundamentals.
This also goes hand in hand with how you defend the shot, as more 3s are being taken the better the players are at defending it making the average % level out or even decline.
cool vid man. I think this range creep outside the 3pt line will eventually bring back room for the mid-range specialists in teams in the future.
I keep being shocked everytime I see the jump in threes attempts as soon as splash bros enter their prime in 2014
It would be extremely interesting to see a more guard focus video that digs into the distance the best sharpshooters are yanking the ball up from and how that has impacted spacing on defense
That editing with Allen Iverson as if you were talking to him back and forth
The Thumbs up is blue now
I didn't know the GSW are also called "practice".
the word 'evolution' is not only suspicious, it's also very dangerous, I'd suggest not using it except in a Biology context
lmao are you offended by science or trolling
@@YangiTheCat I guess he’s using the scientific definition of evolution.
NBA players may have picked up higher in the hand check allowed era which discouraged 3s in the pace hot era of late 70s and 80s the point was from a defensive standpoint was to make a point guard initiate an offense more distant from the rim as low post play was emphasized. This lengthened passes wing to post and corner. The aba was not as physical a league and was more transition game oriented little louie seized this moment of daylight and rang it up. All this said it would be interesting to see an analysis of the rock hard D of Detroit in the 2004 season who stymied the 3 point surge with perimeter defenders . Ft shooting % hasn't dramatically improved as a league average as much as 3 pt shooting so whether unguarded or should I say UNHANDCHECKED 3 POINT SHOOTING HAS IMPROVED % WISE unguarded and UNHANDCHECKED fts have remained about the same 75% bumped to 77%
4:51 that GM should've had actual hard time in hitting those 3s he recorded from others with those small arms :D
Practice?!?!?
We talkin’ bout practice?!?
PRACTICE?!?
And there's dame
I mean lets be honest here, obviously shooting has gotten better because if you ask me if i'm taking two sharpshooters in ray allen or andre iguodala
IM TAKIN IGWODALA
The 3 point shooting form is much more like Bill Sharman than Elvin Hayes. In the 60's, the key was a quick, high release to get the shot off in traffic. In the 50's, they shot from the chest to get more momentum. Curry would have suffered a lot of blocked shots before the 3 pointer.
I often wonder how coaches, fans, and press would react if you transported 2020 Steph or Harden or Dame back to 1981 and unleashed them in that NBA. Obviously it would be mind blowing, but would people recognize the value?
They would be traded for a fax machine
Your crusade for getting Aron Baynes' basketball-reference nickname updated marches on. I'm not sure this whole video wasn't just a subtle ploy to sink "Tippy Toes" Baynes in to a few more peoples' head.
This is why i do not watch nba from after around 2005. Boring 3pt shooting fest. Everybody stay in one place and shoot 3s.boring. And... Because of So many games in youtube i do not have to.
They'll never do it, but the NBA needs to widen the court and move the line back. It's boring to watch a bunch of guys standing around the line waiting for the ball.
Always wanted to see
PG - LeBron
SG - Ray Allen
SF - Klay
PF - Durant
C - Shaq
So, chasing players off the line into long twos leads to a significantly less valuable shot due to less practice of them? Or maybe it isn't a mutually exclusive thing. Players still practice long twos in addition to the three-point shot.
the crumpled jumper art is suchhhhh a good addition to these videos
What in the name of NZ? Sure he was born there but so are half of all famous Australian celebrities. Baynes grew up in QLD Australia.
sam perkins was maybe the 1st big man dropping 3s, but his release was so slow. huge difference with todays guys,
Every sport is different Basketball you have to get the right work on the ball and put it through a little bitty hole, How do you spell all you really have to do is hit the mitt and throw strikes. And if you throw a 90mph fastball and they connect with the force of the bat, it’s gone if you hit it right with out taking out the picture, ball right back at him, so usually an outside you wait and take it the other way, inside pitches you have to turn on it and drive it to left field. See Basketball you have to have the right arc on it and then life throws a curve ball in baseball
1:17 I clicked in the video just for this moment... because i knew it was coming 😂😂😂.
"Saint Crocks" lololol
It's pronounced Kroy
When I was a kid I remember a reporter asking Dr J to compare himself to Rick Barry and he said the higher percentage shots are near the basket. He saw his reluctance to shoot outside as a superiority.
Ben you're wonderful. Baynsey is from Queensland Australia my man. Aussie, not Kiwi.
i think in terms of the ted talk he would consider the three point line as the technological device that has increased the human ability to shoot from deep. it’s a reward system used as a technological advancement. but practice is always what fills the gap. the technology didn’t make people faster. practice and the technological advancement made them improve 100 times
I think you have to factor in the hand checking in the 80s and 90s too. The shots were definitely more contested back in the day, which may mean that the essential shooting skill (what I am calling it) was actually higher then. Just based on the eye test, it is pretty incredible how Steph and Trae Young can almost pull from anywhere passed half court, but it was also pretty impressive how Bird, Reggie Miller, and other great midrange shooters back in the day were pretty automatic coming off floppy sets and pin downs. I think you're right though that what the player practiced most translated into how they played on the court.
Have respected and loved ur videos but Baynes is Aussie and idk if I can love ur videos anymore after that opening comment
College basketball is going to drink me to driving (just creeping in the middle of nowhere)
This is a brilliiant, well-researched video.
they got five years since 2014 to practice 3pt shot just to stay in the league...
So this video just says people take more threes now and that as it’s become more popular they’re better at it because they practice it more.
It’s really not about what number you are it’s how some of those kids are on tv. I don’t see how you put up with some of them.
aron baynes fan club gonna go crazy for this one
This the 3 point era and the Lakers won with big men game, they were among the last ten teams in 3 point shooting in 2020.
You also can it is a result of players shifting from shooting 2 motion shots with some hang in the air compared to the todays more 1 motion quick and less lift on shot
We talking about practice?!?
Fantastic video. As a community league coach, I can testify that young kids "self-practice' 3pt shooting way more than any other shooting.. or anything else really. You'll see a 11 year old trying to huff the ball at the 19'9" High School range for hours at a time at a rec center, but almost never see them line up 10' at baseline or at the 15' freethrow line and work on basic shot form. A lot of coaches try to help kids work on the short range fundamentals, however it seems like a losing battle as players spend almost all their free-time heaving 3pt attempts well before they are physically large enough to do it with proper technique.
Now with everyone and their dog preaching 5 out offense even at pre-teen levels... which is an offense that relies on drives to open up kick-out 3pt shots.. there are a ton of kids who have terrible form and are pretty much just used for setting screens and maybe chasing rebounds.
The flood gates are well past the point of return.. so this is just an old guy coach shaking his fist in the air... however I can understand how old school college and NBA coaches were not big fans of focusing on a 3pt centric game for such a long time.
I agree, and I see it more and more this decade as we get kids coming into the MS/HS or U15/U17 age teams who have terrible shooting form, bad shooting habits, etc. and yet are convinced they should be able to jack up reckless threes at will.
One thing that I have found is that when you get a player today who is willing to practice post moves and can receive the ball in the low post, very few opponents can guard them effectively without fouling. Just some basic pivots and fakes can turn a willing player into the high school equivalent of Kevin McHale or Akeem Olajuwon compared to his or her peers, because his or her peers don't see or have to defend that sort of game regularly.
I find it ironic that Steph Curry and James Harden are their only models, yet they'll end up shooting like Ben Simmons
Baynes is Australian.... not New Zealand my guy......
Best Basketball youtuber by far!
I am waiting for a sponsor to give Ben a 69% off.
I feel like this was disrespectful to Dirk Nowitzki.
damm that dampier dude got peer pressured into taking long 2s instead of 3s lol
Do you think the NBA will ever reach a league average of 40%?
Baynes is Australian, New Zealand born yes but he's a Aussie.
There were long range bombers back in WW2
6:52 so we're just not gonna talk about rondo on that list
And Josh Smith...
inb4 players comfortably pull up from 65 ft
😁 Costanza got me love your vids buddy boiiiii