Endless Space 2 - Trade routes guide
Вставка
- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Finding out how trade routes work has definitely been my biggest project in this game. Hope the video turned out useful!
Intro song:
"Cupid's Revenge" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 creativecommons...
Thanks so much for digging into this and figuring out so much! Trading companies are super complicated and you shine light on a lot of interesting interactions.
One thing to note, I read the Fair Trade Bill as increasing your system dust production based on your number of trading companies, and 5456.4 * 1.6 gives the 8730 that you were gaining from it.
Aaaaah of course, thanks! :D Damn UA-cam for not letting me annotate videos!
"It just works"
Thank you very much for breaking down all this data for all of us that love playing this game. This game is very detailed, but fortunately not as complex and hard to follow like Stellaris. With all your videos you really get a better idea who trade, etc. works.
Hey Waervyn! How about a short guide and ranking of minor faction traits and their usefulness. right now you can't even go to the wiki to find out what the assimilation of a minor faction gets your empire. I often feel like i can't make an informed decision wether or not to delay something else to grab a minor system or even prioritize to conquer them to keep the ai from getting them.
I mean I almost lost a game because i got overrun by cravers with assimilated tikkanan infantry bonuses. I find it really hard to gage the power level of a faction trait that i haven't played both with and against.
Also if this isn't enough for an entire video maybe combine it with some knowledge about the final pop collection bonuses of the minors. it only says that you unlock a law or a battle tactic but you rarely get any information about wether its even worth to pursue these laws. it rarely happens to get 50 pop of a minor faction but as far as i can tell there is really no official source to look these things up.
your ES_2 guides are imho the best ones out there. So an in depth video about minor factions would be greatly appreciated.
Keep it up!
Trade companies are primarily about getting extra luxury resources for your system developments. The output can be increased by higher values on systems - like resource boosting skills and things like NPO line of specializations. You always want them on the systems that have the most luxury resources, same with subsidiaries.
Good tip, thanks!
The details and research you did is serious.
Endless Space trade route PHD! Sir Waervyn hats down... excellent guide and steam "support" :) Anyway I'm sure (hope) that Aplitude will / should rework all the trading systems values...
One weird thing is that if you cancel a trade agreement, then make another with the same empire, it will not produce nearly as much dust as it used to, so there might be some scaling for time involved as well.
Interesting! I'll have a look at this!
Well I landed here after my hostile borg like neighbor rolled in with 16 ships. I only had and could afford 8. I got annihilated I thought I must be missing something dust/production wise. This must be it. I wasn't aware this mechanism was so important to gameplay. This wasn't communicated in the in-game tutorial. Thanks for the guide.
Thank you so much dude. I thought trading in this game was completely pointless because you had to engage in trading with other empires, and since the AI is always ultra-aggressive and never wants to engage in any sort of diplomacy unless they're lumeris or unfallen or you're sieging down their home system, you'd have no reason to tech towards trading. This actually makes a dust victory with the lumeris much much easier
For the amounts that population effect the trade values, a wild guess would be that it is calculating the base values the population is producing by being on a planet. I would be interested to see if terraforming a planet affects the trade values.
Phlip very good point! I'll check this. Thanks!
I don't have any hard data on it,but I did a test as vodyani and had two ships on different parts of the map, and I can say at least this much
1. You earn some money for every occupied system you pass
2. The game either has a flat reduction as distance increases, or each system counts for less as distance increases cause when I had the systems just at the edges of the occupied universe and at the edges of the galaxy, I earned more from the former than the latter.
These tests were done in a game where I was at peace with everybody and I killed all pirates, there were no blocks
Economic system in this game is way to confusing and too hard to understand
And here I thought the combat modules in es1 was confusing lol
Is this guide still valid in 2019, were there some changes to the trading mechanic since 2017 ?
most of the things are valid, exept for the fair trade bill, it gives fidsi bonuses instead
Errons1 did you some research on this topic? Do you have some new informations?
@@paxis76 can do some research on the topic. But I know that the fair trade bill is updatet :)
That is great you want to make some research. I tried it but it is very difficult. What you mean exactly with “fair trade bill” ?
@@paxis76 the pacifist law
So glad for this guide, I use them but don't really understand how they work. Awesome!
At the very least there is one length bonus. You get a percentage from direct neighbors of the route. The longer the route, the more neighbors.
after you broke the trade agreement with the lumeres, you should have ket the agreement with the sophons or reinstate it, SO you can than see if you would than get a dust increase. So maybe you could get dust from the sophons as long as you didnt trade with the lumeres.
great video. You know it's complicated when a trade route guide is about a half hour long.
7:22 I think that the systems in-between are counted double. once because trade route is going through them(at 100% value) and second time because they are adjacent do the ends of the route(at around 0.7 value)
You have a good clear voice, and make good use of the mouse pointer in the video. One small suggestion: if you eliminate the discussion and analysis of what does not work/ add up, and add a final page with written tips, the video will be more useful to folks looking to get the most out of the trading mechanic and the video length will be 50% more efficient. Thanks again.
Maybe the Fair Trade Bill gives 40% Dust Production per Trading Company? So, despite the obvious naming, only Dust that you actually produce from FIDS actually count, and Trading Routes doesn't count?
This indeed seems to be the case, can't believe I missed that. Thanks!
I notice you have the option to buy extra cargo ships (from your trade management screen), but they are quite expensive and each one increases in price dramatically as you buy one - is it worth buying them, and what do they do?
the increase your gains on that route, there are ships for money and ships for science i think, tooltips will confirm that. Its not exactly worth it, except if you are doing the economic victory you will be making OBSCENE amounts of money, and thats a place you can dump it to increase your perturn dust income (which will lead you to economic victory). Its a money sink basically, small returns but better than leaving dust in the bank
wait hold on why is your craver government pacifist?
Thank you very much for this video. Quite helpful..
Thank you very much for this video. I am currently playing ES2 with lumeris and watched this guide because after hours of testing and exploiting excel knowledge I simply gave up on understanding the trade value. However, I found a bit about the food and industry bonus from trade.
1. They are always the same
2. They depend on the plain distance to the HQs
3. They depend on the number of trade routes that pass through the system.
4. They depend from the systen level if the system itself
5. They do NOT depend on HQ system level, HQ system population, frighter number or level of trade routes, own systems pop or trade value (other than system level), it also does not depend on neighbours
So in the end it is just about own system level, number and length of trade routes going through a system.. and by length I mean the plain length.. so it does not even matter whether there are colonized systems in between.
08:00 - How about this: If you swap your subsiduary to Caelum you get 100% of Caleums income but only 70% of Banis'. 100% Bani + 70% Caelum is exactly 3 Dust less than 100% Caelum and 70% Bani; Theres the 3 Dust you are missing.
one thing i wonder now is what the percentage of Systems is that are along a traderoute but are not neighbours to Systems with Companies or subsiduaries. Still 70% or even less?
I think the reason you didn't have any trade with sop-hons is that they didn't build any subsidiaries in their systems yet. Maybe they didn't prioritise the tech. I could establish trade agreements long before I could actually build the trade routes since that is unlocked in the empire tech tree , not the economic one. The bill thing is indeed simple, it calculates the value of each trade route separately, not the income as a whole times the number of routes. And since different routes have vastly different income it doesn't mean you get a flat increase on the total value. 40% of 500 is way less than 40% of 5000. You are thinking 500+5000 = 5500; 5500 + ((5500x 0.4)x2) = 5500+4400=9900, where in reality its 500+5500= 5500; 5500 + (500x0.4) + (5000x0.4) = 5500 + 200 + 2000 = 7700 :) and this increase caused by the law doesn't show in the trade routes screen, so that you don't have distorted ideas about the base value of the trade route. if it reflected there then increasing the dust output by investing would increase the value after the law, not before it. The system is fair, it's just not explained anywhere, you have to figure it out xD Oh and the population thing, the simplest explanation is that it is directly affected by fidsi output. By lowering the pop, you lower the fidsi of the system. This may include any innate fidsi bonuses of the pop itself, like + dust or science per pop for that race, that is why it didn't change when you demolished those buildings. It takes into account only the base value of the planets multiplied by how many pops are working it, so sending the route through dust poor planets (before buildings) will not be as rewarding as sending it trough a system of 4-5 warm gas giants :D
Do you extract value from AI neighbors? Trade clearing Bureau only increase trade value 200%, in the system you put it in? Do these increase trade value things only benefit the systems built so only put it in systems with headquarters or subsidiaries?
What if u had multiple systems say 4-5, which all produce one out of all the total types of luxury resource, in which no two systems or planets produce the same luxury resource. And you have another 4 or more who are in close proximity with other empires. It's easy to connect the dots here on which should be trade hq or subsidiary, my question is does this - Being able to produce and provide for every luxury resource need - have an influence a multiplier effect or any significant positive outcome or boost to the economy or is it a dominant factor to economic victory?
The Lumeris have 2-3 options why ships wont get intercepted, now is that only for trade ships or also f.e. resupply outpost ships?
The Fair Trade Bill adds 40% per trading company to your system dust production. With 4 trading companies your system dust production increases by 160%.
Well done again mate! I love your videos
I am so confused, I have the research and the ? symbol in the Economy screen about a new trading company looking for a location but I do not have a trading company as a system or planet upgrade option. Is there some prereq?
Hi everyone, did one of you knows why I can only buy one kind of ship (the luxury ones) for the trade company?
I'm playing Horatio, is it related?
what are the thick squiggly travel paths coming out of bani? are those the trade routes?
25:44 all your planets have No Overpopulation lines above the last population slots? Sich tech so this (removing)?
custom faction guide ? :D
hy. on the trade map (the one u activate with space or middlemouse), when u zoom to maximum and point at the plantes name, it will actually tell u the criterias. colonized neighbours for example, population, hero... no need for difficult mathcalculations lol
I haven't tried yet, but I'm guessing if your empire changes you can demolish trade buildings and rebuild them elsewhere in a more desirable spot? Though the loss would be huge, I suppose, if you did it with anything more than a subsidiary?
You can indeed move them around. For wonders this doesn't work though. So if you have that trade clearing bureau, you can demolish it, but then you can't rebuild it.
Are there any new 4x games that came out in 2020 or 2021
I was listening to the part where a systems improvement does not impact trading, but it's population does. You didn't mention if the production the population made whether their racial bonus or the planet output was. Also if this does indicate the mechanice, then we can also look at the planet specialization, or at least keep it in mind before testing.
On one of the next topics you didn't see the correlation between increasing trade 100% and system value. Then in the next tip you said Trade HQ's level up. Is there something here? Also in another tip you said you can improve your value with a dust purchase. This might be a variable that might need to be eliminated before done testing other things.
I see that trade in this game has complexity comparable to the one in Europa Universalis 4... And can be the main source of money if done right, the same as in that game. Damn, so much to learn
I haven't played EU4 much, but although there are many underlying systems at work for trade-routes in ES2, actually making/using them is very easy, so I wouldn't worry too much :)
Thanks for the guide, my last game with Sophons was a total mess trade-wise.
@19:42 For buildings that increase trade value (Like the Solar Security Operations Base + Trade Clearing Bureau)
Do I place them on my subsidiary system or my HQ system for maximum effect?
Or does it not matter? So either or is the same.
They are the same
@@nathanharvey8570 Cheers :) appreciate the info
Shout out to Steve
Trade roots :3
so.. basicly you just build HQs in systems with many neighbours and it's done.
Kind of, maybe, most of the time - and yet we still don't actually know how most of these mechanics work. Sigh.
Thanks for the guide mate!
Great video ! Relly usefull !
there is a 20% trade value bonus per system length, the starting system and the end system are included in the formula thus, the minimum distance is considerd as 2, so a 40% bonus is applied between neghbouring systems
Not that I don't necessarily believe it, but any data to back this up? This seems to be quite inconsistent with what I've been finding (but of course it's fully possible there were some confounding factors at work, which is why I'd love to see the data).
the most reliable data i found was through the developer menu other than practical experiments, it also seems to affect dust, neither luxury resources nor science seem affected by this
What's the developer menu if I may ask? :)
The next question would be onto what value exactly this 40% bonus would be applied.
If you're saying that he gets the income of all systems on the route and 20% bonus (on the whole amount) per system length over 2 (so, 40% in this case), his income should be ~160 (don't forget the 70% from Caelum)
Another option would be that he still only gets the income from Start & End of the route with a 40% bonus - would be; ~139 (a+b incl. 70% of Caelum, Nihal & Byrtus)
At this point it should be obvious, that we don't have to look at the numbers counting the inbetweens with full value, since we're already above what he is actuall earning.
I looked at a few possible scenarios they dev could have put the calculations into a formula, but the closest I come to the shown 131 dust ist if you simply take the income of all 4 planets and apply a bonus of 20% - what leads to ~134 - but this scenario leaves out the bonus from Caelum that will bring us at least up to ~138...
So maybe I'm missing some obvious thing, or the 20% can't be the whohle truth to this calculation...
the developer menu is esentialy a cheat or debug menu aim for usage of developers, it can be used to change values like resources or population or to get some information about things like current trading companies, IA, current orders given to fleets an some other things, in the release version is not accesible without external program assistance
Thanks Steve
Fk, amplitude... why didn't you guys add any way to evaluate projected values based on construction so players can optimize theirs systems? Just got to "Okay it works now and people can play it even if it doesn't really make any sense at all" and the decided to make some money, huh? Does building trade value increasing improvements that are adjacent to systems on a trade route increase the company's total profits, only the systems on the route, or only the systems with the company itself and the subsidiary??
Building trade value increasing improvements on systems adjacent to trade routes appears to have no affect on trade company income whatsoever. Building same improvements on systems along a trade route however does seem to slightly increase total company income although it's very hard to be certain. Never mind, no affect on systems on trade routes. They do increase total income on subsidiaries though. Needless to say you want to build them on the system with the actual company mostly. Such a pain to figure out. Thx ampliturds.
I can't understand how fucking stupid Amplitude has to be to have expected that their player base would be able to understand ES2 game mechanics the way they tried to convey them in game. I also just can't understand why this has such a high rating on steam.
I am sorry to say this, but watching the video was a waste of time, I was looking for hard data, something which can be translated into simple set of rules to apply.
This is just 20 minutes of "hmph, yeah I don't get how that works, use the best of your common sense, best of luck to you" which is probably outdated by now.
Good effort though, but clueless is still clueless.
This is the problem with a huge number of ES2 mechanics unfortunately. Empirical learning only gets you so far. They're all mystifying, and only the devs know for sure, and even they seem to get confused because of how often things have been changed and reworked over the game's development life. Plus there's the localization gap.
Combat, for example, is obscenely difficult to figure out by actually playing, you need to go on games2gether and read one of those lengthy forum threads trying to deconstruct all the different mechanics and rules at play.
There was quite a lot of actually useful data in the video. Yes, there was some confusion still, but the trade system in this game may as well be advanced particle physics. I doubt even the devs could easily fully explain it. He certainly gave much more usable info then he gave "I don't get how that works". That info could certainly be "translated into a simple set of rules" very easily. It's actually helped me quite a bit in my planing of trade routes.
Sorry if you didn't pick up any (or enough) of it, but I feel that's on you and not on him. Saying the video is a waste though, and calling Waervyn clueless...it really just makes you seem a bit so instead.