Wonder what his thoughts are on Tears of the Kingdom's Menu, the supermarket of occasionally useful items that are rarely used (Bombs triumph everything), as well as Durability and Weapons. I found it really interesting to see people complaining and calling Nintendo the "Fun Police" when they patched the dupe glitch. Suddenly, they had to engage into a collect-a-ton to upgrade their Armors (with its annoying slow animation-per-upgrade that people say is intentionally designed to remind you that maybe you have been playing for too long), battery and others.. and it wasn't enjoyable anymore. All these players had a taste of TotK without the tedium.
Couldn't agree more. As someone who has played World of Warcraft since 2004, I love my "number go up" style games. I also love my ARPG games like diablo, I also love my character action games. But I really dislike when one of them tries to be something it's not. I don't like when someone tries to make a devil may cry kind of game but shoehorn in "RPG Elements" because it adds extra flavor on the box.
Idk about D2, but Destiny 1 exotics were unique, icebreaker slowly recharges ammo for a powerful sniper, the gjalahorn homes and turns into tiny little rockets, the multi tool was quick to draw, low recoil, and kept your radar up while aiming so you could basically be John wick
Hell now that I think about it D1 had the same issue. Necrochasm was very niche, so was plan C, universal remote and man some exotic armor was kinda meh.
Worhtless stuff have sense in power progression. They show worst paths you didn't taken becouse you are soo smarth/lucky. Making you feel that you are ahead of the power curve. And thats feels good.
If there's one advantage that Borderlands loot system has over Destiny's loot system it's that Borderlands is pve so it's not tied to some dumb meta. It's so annoying to be killed by the same gun in the crucible over and over again.
As someone who likes roguelikes but roguelikes dont like me, i do like the idea that random equipment giving different perks can vastly change how you play a game. You can see it as artificial re-playability but i just like it. Funnily enough the one thing people didn't like about xenoblade chronicles 2, the gacha blades, is one of my favorite things since it can change how you play if you don't default back to your starter weapon (tho i do understand that for collection farmers or completionists its a literal nightmare since its the difference between just farming for something and taking actual days to roll for them lol).
Liked your video, and agreed, too many games nowadays that has repetitive content with meager rewards to make up for the effort. Perhaps you should give Remnant 1, and soon to release Remnant 2, a try, as it has been a memorable and fun adventure game. RPGs can be fun, but as of late, I'd like to skip over this garbage loot and battle pass trend we've been stuck in, for a good 4 or so years.
THANK YOU, I agree with your Cyberpunk examples, because I'm tired of people trying to big up "customization" in games like this, when they don't offer anything meaningful to me
This feels like a hyper extended look at the loot concepts that were brought up in a money zandler video for control. All the loot in that game is so useless and given such pointless names just cause they can, it actually disconnected him from the game. Sad to say as I looked around I continued to notice it felt the same myself. Pretty sure he called it 'goot' for garbage loot cause it sounds as gross as those systems feel. And its in quite a few games. It was really nice to watch a video that went further down this rabbit hole thoroughly.
That’s incredible that you bring that video up. I had already intended to make this video and felt really discouraged for a while. Then when I watched Monty Zander’s Control video, it was the final moment of “I’m not alone” that gave me the confidence to hit record.
So my take away from the first 7 minutes or so of your video is: "Loot systems are good when the loot makes a tangible difference in _how_ you play, and thus they are choices instead of calculations." Because "Which is higher, 12 or 21?" is a calculation, there is no choice here you will always take the 21. 11 minutes or so in: Decoupling looks and performance (numbers or gameplay) is something the video game industry really needs to just make standard. Transmog (as so many MMO veterans have come to call it) has inherent value for both balance and player enjoyment. Just let people look how they want developers. There's a really important point you made here about gameplay diversity between characters. If there won't be major differences between them? Just let people make a character, because they'll all play the same. Or, you know, pick one and make their style maximum depth. Developers definitely need to get better about asking 'is this a good fit for the game we are making?' with loot systems and saying No when that is the answer to the question. One point that didn't come to your mind here but I think is worth considering is this: "All loot must benefit the player." In garbage loot systems, nearly all drops are trash not even worth picking up. It's why loot filters are essential in ARPGs (The source of this loot trend.) but even there much of what drops isn't worth interacting with. Why not make a system where what would be filtered out becomes a resource (automatically) that players can use to craft meaningful loot? Yeah, that requires loot/item systems with sufficient depth to matter, and that's not appropriate for every game. But where it is going to show up, making every 'garbage' drop contribute to getting what the player wants, something they tailor to their specific needs, would make logical sense. RNG could never give you something you want, and you'd get it anyway eventually. I don't mean 'more chances at loot' I mean full on 'I want this item, with this modifiers.' level detail. For those who want 'number go up' and those who want 'do combos' (by way of builds) a setup like this would mean time never feels wasted. You want to do fire stuff? Make an item with that, no matter what RNG drops you. You want something stronger at what you already have? If RNG doesn't provide it, you make it anyway. In the end, no matter your thoughts on the above, I think we can agree that if you are doing a loot system, it needs to have depth so that it matters as something other than a drawback.
I’m overjoyed that you took time out of your day to not only analyze my rambles and put them into a cohesive breakdown, but added your own feelings and observations. Banger points brought up, especially with the loot being meaningful. Genuinely thank you for this.
Wonder what his thoughts are on Tears of the Kingdom's Menu, the supermarket of occasionally useful items that are rarely used (Bombs triumph everything), as well as Durability and Weapons.
I found it really interesting to see people complaining and calling Nintendo the "Fun Police" when they patched the dupe glitch. Suddenly, they had to engage into a collect-a-ton to upgrade their Armors (with its annoying slow animation-per-upgrade that people say is intentionally designed to remind you that maybe you have been playing for too long), battery and others.. and it wasn't enjoyable anymore. All these players had a taste of TotK without the tedium.
12:10 Cyberpunk actually fixed this issue a while ago, since you can seperate the stats and visual aspects of the items you pick up
I heard!! Has me very excited to hop back in when the DLC drops, sorry that I didn’t throw that detail in.
Couldn't agree more. As someone who has played World of Warcraft since 2004, I love my "number go up" style games. I also love my ARPG games like diablo, I also love my character action games. But I really dislike when one of them tries to be something it's not. I don't like when someone tries to make a devil may cry kind of game but shoehorn in "RPG Elements" because it adds extra flavor on the box.
Idk about D2, but Destiny 1 exotics were unique, icebreaker slowly recharges ammo for a powerful sniper, the gjalahorn homes and turns into tiny little rockets, the multi tool was quick to draw, low recoil, and kept your radar up while aiming so you could basically be John wick
I mean D2 has niche and unique exotics. It's just that some are too niche for their own good and that harms them.
Hell now that I think about it D1 had the same issue. Necrochasm was very niche, so was plan C, universal remote and man some exotic armor was kinda meh.
Worhtless stuff have sense in power progression. They show worst paths you didn't taken becouse you are soo smarth/lucky. Making you feel that you are ahead of the power curve. And thats feels good.
That’s definitely an aspect I hadn’t thought of. The power fantasy is something I might need to talk about in a different video one day.
If there's one advantage that Borderlands loot system has over Destiny's loot system it's that Borderlands is pve so it's not tied to some dumb meta. It's so annoying to be killed by the same gun in the crucible over and over again.
As someone who likes roguelikes but roguelikes dont like me, i do like the idea that random equipment giving different perks can vastly change how you play a game. You can see it as artificial re-playability but i just like it. Funnily enough the one thing people didn't like about xenoblade chronicles 2, the gacha blades, is one of my favorite things since it can change how you play if you don't default back to your starter weapon (tho i do understand that for collection farmers or completionists its a literal nightmare since its the difference between just farming for something and taking actual days to roll for them lol).
I love roguelikes and when equipment makes you think differently or switch up playstyles. That’s what I’d like to see more of, if anything.
Liked your video, and agreed, too many games nowadays that has repetitive content with meager rewards to make up for the effort. Perhaps you should give Remnant 1, and soon to release Remnant 2, a try, as it has been a memorable and fun adventure game. RPGs can be fun, but as of late, I'd like to skip over this garbage loot and battle pass trend we've been stuck in, for a good 4 or so years.
Yep 👍🏻
FF7 made all the weapons actually useful still after you get a new one because they each target a different play style
Truuue. I really appreciated the weapons in FF7 Remake.
THANK YOU, I agree with your Cyberpunk examples, because I'm tired of people trying to big up "customization" in games like this, when they don't offer anything meaningful to me
This feels like a hyper extended look at the loot concepts that were brought up in a money zandler video for control.
All the loot in that game is so useless and given such pointless names just cause they can, it actually disconnected him from the game. Sad to say as I looked around I continued to notice it felt the same myself. Pretty sure he called it 'goot' for garbage loot cause it sounds as gross as those systems feel. And its in quite a few games.
It was really nice to watch a video that went further down this rabbit hole thoroughly.
That’s incredible that you bring that video up. I had already intended to make this video and felt really discouraged for a while. Then when I watched Monty Zander’s Control video, it was the final moment of “I’m not alone” that gave me the confidence to hit record.
@@thehairiesthare honestly that's awesome to hear. It took watching a video from someone else to get back into editing myself. So whatever works. xD
So my take away from the first 7 minutes or so of your video is: "Loot systems are good when the loot makes a tangible difference in _how_ you play, and thus they are choices instead of calculations." Because "Which is higher, 12 or 21?" is a calculation, there is no choice here you will always take the 21.
11 minutes or so in: Decoupling looks and performance (numbers or gameplay) is something the video game industry really needs to just make standard. Transmog (as so many MMO veterans have come to call it) has inherent value for both balance and player enjoyment. Just let people look how they want developers.
There's a really important point you made here about gameplay diversity between characters. If there won't be major differences between them? Just let people make a character, because they'll all play the same. Or, you know, pick one and make their style maximum depth.
Developers definitely need to get better about asking 'is this a good fit for the game we are making?' with loot systems and saying No when that is the answer to the question.
One point that didn't come to your mind here but I think is worth considering is this: "All loot must benefit the player." In garbage loot systems, nearly all drops are trash not even worth picking up. It's why loot filters are essential in ARPGs (The source of this loot trend.) but even there much of what drops isn't worth interacting with.
Why not make a system where what would be filtered out becomes a resource (automatically) that players can use to craft meaningful loot? Yeah, that requires loot/item systems with sufficient depth to matter, and that's not appropriate for every game. But where it is going to show up, making every 'garbage' drop contribute to getting what the player wants, something they tailor to their specific needs, would make logical sense. RNG could never give you something you want, and you'd get it anyway eventually. I don't mean 'more chances at loot' I mean full on 'I want this item, with this modifiers.' level detail.
For those who want 'number go up' and those who want 'do combos' (by way of builds) a setup like this would mean time never feels wasted. You want to do fire stuff? Make an item with that, no matter what RNG drops you. You want something stronger at what you already have? If RNG doesn't provide it, you make it anyway.
In the end, no matter your thoughts on the above, I think we can agree that if you are doing a loot system, it needs to have depth so that it matters as something other than a drawback.
I’m overjoyed that you took time out of your day to not only analyze my rambles and put them into a cohesive breakdown, but added your own feelings and observations. Banger points brought up, especially with the loot being meaningful. Genuinely thank you for this.