From the sounds of it, Nomura had a lot more planned for the story. I’m convinced that Dark Road was going to be a lot longer, like 13 chapters instead of 8, but it was cut short due to Square not seeing the return of investment they desired. Also, they definitely changed their minds on who Player character became. I know there is the bait and switch argument, but in Player’s visions of the future, we are shown things like Xehanort’s arrival in Scala and playing chess with Eraqus.
The reveal of the Blue Robey being the Player from UX to me was a big shock and bummer. I would have preferred if it had remained that Xehanort was actually the Player, but sadly it is what it is.
I think the most frustrating part of dark road is that Xehanort is inferred to be the only character other than Riku to have darkness in his heart, but he can control himself and it doesn't influence him as bad. Meaning all the shitty dumb things he does are his choice. The basis of this choice is that the world's are bad, but if he waited 30 more hours/years then he'd see that light wins every time. Like imagine watching Winnie the poo or beauty and the beast and your take away is, (we need a purge)
my husband walked in as i was watching this and said "wait, is this game after kingdom hearts 3?" and i said "that's a pretty complicated question you've asked me" and he just went AGGHHHHHHHHGGGGGG
Interesting point about the Norse names - they actually started in Union X. Skuld is a name from Norse mythology. It seems strange that we find most of the Norse names in this game, except just that one that was in Union X and (according to current theories, unless I've missed something) in the future games in the timeline as Subject X. We all know Nomura doesn't do anything without a reason, so I'm fully expecting some kind of reveal there eventually.
I think the biggest problem with the story of this game is that between all of the time jumps and new names the pacing of it is completely ruined. I didn't really get a chance to care about any of the new characters, and always felt like whenever the story was going somewhere there would be a massive time skips that rarely if ever added to anything. And then the massive twist at the end about blue robey makes Xehanort a lot less interesting imo. This was also the first time I grew tired of the twists. KH likes to throw a lot of twists in its story, but they tend to either be so off the wall stupid/silly (see the recuissance symbol, the x blade, the 80+ things stored in Sora and the 80+ members of the (real) organizatiob 13) or sad/clever (see xion(?) or pretty much anything involving MoM) that they've always felt uniquely like a KH fever dream. But here the twists just felt like they were put there for no reason. IDK, maybe my opinion would be different if I actually played the game. I thought that the beginning was very interesting (my interest peaking with the flash forward to the graves) but lost focus and threw so much unnecessary stuff at the player
The Twist about Xehanort not being the Player is to make Xehanort the Unchosen Chosen the way Riku is. It emphasizes the connect between feeling Unworthy, and Darkness.
The only time I gave a shit about Xehanort as a character instead of just a villain for Sora was when it was revealed our player character was inside his heart. I hate that they took that from us tbh
I just had a thought. You know how Mickey is supposed to be searching for clues in Scala Ad Caelum. What if Yen Sid was taught the Keyblade in Scala and Mickey has to use Yen Sid as a Portal to go to Scala. Because otherwise how the hell is he supposed to get there
Third time watching this video, woohoo, love Lore Dump. BUT I disagree with y'all over the positions of the other students and their roles in the indie band. Hermod would be lead singer, however I think he would also double as the lead guitarist since he takes himself pretty seriously and has that big brother-esque personality. He definitely takes on a leadership role and probably also writes all of the songs. Bragi would still be the bassist, but with the context of him being Luxu it would be so he could be close to the front, but not the main focus. Urd would be the drummer, because she seems to be the most level headed and steady, so she could probably keep a steady beat, but she's also probably the actual leader of the band, but doesn't mind letting Hermod do his thing. Vor is just Hermod's younger sister that their mom said had to come otherwise he wouldn't be allowed to go to Urd's house for practice, but she's also like their biggest (and only) fan.
Can we all agree that Kingdom Hearts (i almost want to say Square but i am not convinced of that. Kage though 100%) was the blueprint for what would become the Marvel/Disney cinematic universe and business practice concerning their IP's? (think about it) I can't wait til it's Neil's turn and Monty and Chase give him a taste of the team snark. :) Also Is there a chance that after doing a series or universe that you guys could go a break podcast where you guys could just chat or possibly Q&A?'s I just absolutely love all 3 of you and your energy is so much fun to listen to. Like a palate cleanser you know? Which might actually be a good thing for you guys, also. lol
@@skydragonslayer9820oh okay thank god lol I was starting to feel so bad that they kept torturing themselves trying to ram every scenario into that box. I must have just totally missed that it was a joke. Thanks!
I feel like the obvious answer for how you summon Kingdom Hearts is you need a Prime Number of Light and/or Darkness, where each Prime Number must be under 20. So you could have 1/1, 7/13, 1/7, 7/0 or maybe 19/3 someday. So that’s why the original versions of ORG13 could not work is because they had 14, which is not a Prime Number.
I still haven't finished the whole series yet...but we've had Skuld(Goddess of the Future) as a young woman and leader in the last game, we have Urd(Goddess of the past) in this game, so is Verdandith(Goddess of the Present) in another game?
Dark Road, my little potential-filled disappointment. I wanted to see Norty close his eyes silver and open them gold, but we didn’t get that. I wanted the game to focus on Xehanort and how his relationship to Eraqus develops over time as well as what exactly caused him to give in to and wield the darkness. But it didn’t give us that. Instead, it gave us too many underdeveloped and unimportant characters that were just a quickly killed off as they were introduced (and half of them are V names so I keep getting them mixed up). The only interesting new character was Baldr and while he had a fair amount of screen time, that screen time would’ve been better used focusing on Norty, as I’ve said before. The idea of exploring why exactly Xehanort became the person he is by BBS is an extremely interesting one, but it wasn’t executed in an interesting manner. That being said, Xehanort is my favorite character besides the MoM and it hurts to see a game that’s supposedly all about him not give him the spotlight he deserves. I do love this game, but it’s definitely weak, weaker than Melody of Memory, and that’s saying a lot. At least Melody of Memory has some relevance to the current plot with its non-recap cutscenes at the end.
I know we got 2 more games to cover in lore here, but if Odin isn't Yensid then I quit. Oh, there is just another super old powerful wizard retired keyblade master who knows more than he lets on training keyblade masters coming in at the last second to hold back the darkness so his students can vanquish it? Just gonna go to some quiet little world and leave Scala ad Caelum behind but still knowing where it is when no one else in the Sora Saga knew about it.
Rewatching this, I'm more than a little disapointed that Xehanort isn't the one who exterminated all the other weilders trying for Kingdom Hearts a first time. Like something is going to have to happen to make us care about all these other Keyblade wielders, because we just don't. It feels like they barely existed and unlike the Union X kids, these wielders will have no greater impact on the franchise and no breadcrumbs were ever laid for any of them and they will have no future relevance. I almost feel like the story could have been told without them- leaving just Odin teaching Xehanort and Eraqus. They feel like the first original characters to be put into the series who do absolutely nothing of importance and who don't need to be remembered. The only bits of lore which seem to matter is Player/Chontiel's reincarnation, Xehanort's connection to Ephemer, that Luxu doesn't have possession of No Name by the time of Young Xehanort but he does know exactly where it is and who has possession of it for the time and he doesn't particularly need it to continue his interpretation of his duty, and that Xehanort legitimately doesn't feel like Darkness is a bad thing.
I've listened to the whole KH Lore Dump like 3 times now and Dark Road is honestly the leslasr interesting to me. I never played KHUX or DR but at least UX had an amazing story. DR feels like a massive downgrade
I know I'm a bit late and the series is already over (waiting for Missing Link), but... Honnestly guys, I loved your kh videos until this one because of your attentiveness, your involvement, the little jokes that were spot on but not too distracting, the very good (almost too good) theories, and how serious and respectful you were of the story; but in this one, you really missed the mark. You respected the story less and less, you didn't remember the name of the characters (which, to be fair, there is a lot of them, but like, print a photo of them with their name above them or something?? Obviously you won't get a good experience if you don't remember half the cast of the story). If you were starting to get too tired after KHUX, which is understandable, maybe you could have waited a day? Because you were not getting most of the story and plot twists. Also, you were jumping to conclusions, in a kh game??? Very bad idea, no wonder you're disappointed then. I also didn't like how you almost disregarded the character's personnalities ("Eraqus is stupid", or "Odin is useless") without ever giving them a chance and before you've ever seen all their scenes. And no, the Disney worlds don't "loop" so PLEASE let go of this when trying to make sense of the lore. I had so much fun with the previous videos but this one is really bugging me, all those things really make the quality of this series go down in my opinion.
*DISCLAIMER*
Thanks for being here! This episode is a reupload, transferring our backlog of Lore Dumps from the Monty Zander youtube channel.
From the sounds of it, Nomura had a lot more planned for the story. I’m convinced that Dark Road was going to be a lot longer, like 13 chapters instead of 8, but it was cut short due to Square not seeing the return of investment they desired.
Also, they definitely changed their minds on who Player character became. I know there is the bait and switch argument, but in Player’s visions of the future, we are shown things like Xehanort’s arrival in Scala and playing chess with Eraqus.
The reveal of the Blue Robey being the Player from UX to me was a big shock and bummer. I would have preferred if it had remained that Xehanort was actually the Player, but sadly it is what it is.
100% agree
I just wanna say these have got me through some tough times lately and I’m glad you guys are as funny as you all are
“In all ways-except physical-I am a cow. Hyuk!”
-Goofy the Dog
I think the most frustrating part of dark road is that Xehanort is inferred to be the only character other than Riku to have darkness in his heart, but he can control himself and it doesn't influence him as bad. Meaning all the shitty dumb things he does are his choice. The basis of this choice is that the world's are bad, but if he waited 30 more hours/years then he'd see that light wins every time. Like imagine watching Winnie the poo or beauty and the beast and your take away is, (we need a purge)
Interesting.
my husband walked in as i was watching this and said "wait, is this game after kingdom hearts 3?" and i said "that's a pretty complicated question you've asked me" and he just went AGGHHHHHHHHGGGGGG
Interesting point about the Norse names - they actually started in Union X. Skuld is a name from Norse mythology. It seems strange that we find most of the Norse names in this game, except just that one that was in Union X and (according to current theories, unless I've missed something) in the future games in the timeline as Subject X. We all know Nomura doesn't do anything without a reason, so I'm fully expecting some kind of reveal there eventually.
I think the biggest problem with the story of this game is that between all of the time jumps and new names the pacing of it is completely ruined.
I didn't really get a chance to care about any of the new characters, and always felt like whenever the story was going somewhere there would be a massive time skips that rarely if ever added to anything.
And then the massive twist at the end about blue robey makes Xehanort a lot less interesting imo.
This was also the first time I grew tired of the twists. KH likes to throw a lot of twists in its story, but they tend to either be so off the wall stupid/silly (see the recuissance symbol, the x blade, the 80+ things stored in Sora and the 80+ members of the (real) organizatiob 13) or sad/clever (see xion(?) or pretty much anything involving MoM) that they've always felt uniquely like a KH fever dream. But here the twists just felt like they were put there for no reason.
IDK, maybe my opinion would be different if I actually played the game. I thought that the beginning was very interesting (my interest peaking with the flash forward to the graves) but lost focus and threw so much unnecessary stuff at the player
The Twist about Xehanort not being the Player is to make Xehanort the Unchosen Chosen the way Riku is. It emphasizes the connect between feeling Unworthy, and Darkness.
And The other twists use occult symbolism , like X = Death and Revelation through apocalypse.
I am honestly more tired of Sora’s story. Feels like I am truly done with the story about the guardians of light.
The only time I gave a shit about Xehanort as a character instead of just a villain for Sora was when it was revealed our player character was inside his heart.
I hate that they took that from us tbh
I think the part when Hades says "You", he's being visited by Maleficent who's forming the bad guy squad
Same here actually!
So is if Xehanort is Axel's great great great grandfather, does that mean that Axel was norted this entire time?
Is this even official?
@@alimichalkan8046No. The PC being Axel's ancestor is a joke/headcanon Monty came up with. This game also disproves PC being reborn as Xehanort.
36:00 "brave sir Robin ran away"
With the mention of FFXIV, I'm now here to request a series of FFXIV lore dumps
I would be completely on board with this
I know it’ll never happen but I’d love to see a Metal Gear Lore dump remake with Neil included 😂 though I suppose he’s played it
YES!!!!!
Spoiler for the video!
If Vanitas is one of the Darkness, that would make it even more likely his face was blank, honestly.
I just had a thought. You know how Mickey is supposed to be searching for clues in Scala Ad Caelum. What if Yen Sid was taught the Keyblade in Scala and Mickey has to use Yen Sid as a Portal to go to Scala. Because otherwise how the hell is he supposed to get there
Third time watching this video, woohoo, love Lore Dump. BUT I disagree with y'all over the positions of the other students and their roles in the indie band. Hermod would be lead singer, however I think he would also double as the lead guitarist since he takes himself pretty seriously and has that big brother-esque personality. He definitely takes on a leadership role and probably also writes all of the songs. Bragi would still be the bassist, but with the context of him being Luxu it would be so he could be close to the front, but not the main focus. Urd would be the drummer, because she seems to be the most level headed and steady, so she could probably keep a steady beat, but she's also probably the actual leader of the band, but doesn't mind letting Hermod do his thing. Vor is just Hermod's younger sister that their mom said had to come otherwise he wouldn't be allowed to go to Urd's house for practice, but she's also like their biggest (and only) fan.
The Kh band only plays metal versions of Shimomura tracks
Can we all agree that Kingdom Hearts (i almost want to say Square but i am not convinced of that. Kage though 100%)
was the blueprint for what would become the Marvel/Disney cinematic universe and business practice concerning their IP's? (think about it)
I can't wait til it's Neil's turn and Monty and Chase give him a taste of the team snark. :)
Also Is there a chance that after doing a series or universe that you guys could go a break podcast where you guys could just chat or possibly Q&A?'s I just absolutely love all 3 of you and your energy is so much fun to listen to. Like a palate cleanser you know? Which might actually be a good thing for you guys, also. lol
Do a lore Dump on The Legend of Zelda games!
Somebody please tell these poor people that real worlds don’t loop… only sleeping world and data worlds since they are memories and… data
They know,it's just a running joke they have.
@@skydragonslayer9820oh okay thank god lol I was starting to feel so bad that they kept torturing themselves trying to ram every scenario into that box. I must have just totally missed that it was a joke. Thanks!
kh1 has the best opening of video game history, its iconic masterful beautiful and eternal.
I feel like the obvious answer for how you summon Kingdom Hearts is you need a Prime Number of Light and/or Darkness, where each Prime Number must be under 20. So you could have 1/1, 7/13, 1/7, 7/0 or maybe 19/3 someday. So that’s why the original versions of ORG13 could not work is because they had 14, which is not a Prime Number.
You meet the characters for the first time, and what do you do? ASSIGN THEM TO BAND ROLES!!! 🤣🤣🤣
… Alice in Wonderland was one of my favorite worlds… it would be so cool to see it with the full force of modern KH tech.
17:52 Y'all missed an F-bomb. Tsk tsk.
Honestly, I would have preffered separate games. One for Young Xehanort, and a different one for all the post-KH3 setup.
Yo those are summons from final fantasy
I still haven't finished the whole series yet...but we've had Skuld(Goddess of the Future) as a young woman and leader in the last game, we have Urd(Goddess of the past) in this game, so is Verdandith(Goddess of the Present) in another game?
Dark Road, my little potential-filled disappointment. I wanted to see Norty close his eyes silver and open them gold, but we didn’t get that. I wanted the game to focus on Xehanort and how his relationship to Eraqus develops over time as well as what exactly caused him to give in to and wield the darkness. But it didn’t give us that. Instead, it gave us too many underdeveloped and unimportant characters that were just a quickly killed off as they were introduced (and half of them are V names so I keep getting them mixed up). The only interesting new character was Baldr and while he had a fair amount of screen time, that screen time would’ve been better used focusing on Norty, as I’ve said before. The idea of exploring why exactly Xehanort became the person he is by BBS is an extremely interesting one, but it wasn’t executed in an interesting manner. That being said, Xehanort is my favorite character besides the MoM and it hurts to see a game that’s supposedly all about him not give him the spotlight he deserves. I do love this game, but it’s definitely weak, weaker than Melody of Memory, and that’s saying a lot. At least Melody of Memory has some relevance to the current plot with its non-recap cutscenes at the end.
It’s honestly sad because DR has one of the best KH storyline but Square make the battle system for this game so weak.
I know we got 2 more games to cover in lore here, but if Odin isn't Yensid then I quit. Oh, there is just another super old powerful wizard retired keyblade master who knows more than he lets on training keyblade masters coming in at the last second to hold back the darkness so his students can vanquish it? Just gonna go to some quiet little world and leave Scala ad Caelum behind but still knowing where it is when no one else in the Sora Saga knew about it.
Rewatching this, I'm more than a little disapointed that Xehanort isn't the one who exterminated all the other weilders trying for Kingdom Hearts a first time. Like something is going to have to happen to make us care about all these other Keyblade wielders, because we just don't. It feels like they barely existed and unlike the Union X kids, these wielders will have no greater impact on the franchise and no breadcrumbs were ever laid for any of them and they will have no future relevance. I almost feel like the story could have been told without them- leaving just Odin teaching Xehanort and Eraqus. They feel like the first original characters to be put into the series who do absolutely nothing of importance and who don't need to be remembered.
The only bits of lore which seem to matter is Player/Chontiel's reincarnation, Xehanort's connection to Ephemer, that Luxu doesn't have possession of No Name by the time of Young Xehanort but he does know exactly where it is and who has possession of it for the time and he doesn't particularly need it to continue his interpretation of his duty, and that Xehanort legitimately doesn't feel like Darkness is a bad thing.
Another great lore dump
In Eraqus’s defense, everyone said he was wrong, but their choices got them and their friends killed. 💀
I've listened to the whole KH Lore Dump like 3 times now and Dark Road is honestly the leslasr interesting to me. I never played KHUX or DR but at least UX had an amazing story. DR feels like a massive downgrade
Quadrantum unreality so is there like 4 layers of reality
This guy are sick
I know I'm a bit late and the series is already over (waiting for Missing Link), but...
Honnestly guys, I loved your kh videos until this one because of your attentiveness, your involvement, the little jokes that were spot on but not too distracting, the very good (almost too good) theories, and how serious and respectful you were of the story; but in this one, you really missed the mark.
You respected the story less and less, you didn't remember the name of the characters (which, to be fair, there is a lot of them, but like, print a photo of them with their name above them or something?? Obviously you won't get a good experience if you don't remember half the cast of the story). If you were starting to get too tired after KHUX, which is understandable, maybe you could have waited a day? Because you were not getting most of the story and plot twists. Also, you were jumping to conclusions, in a kh game??? Very bad idea, no wonder you're disappointed then. I also didn't like how you almost disregarded the character's personnalities ("Eraqus is stupid", or "Odin is useless") without ever giving them a chance and before you've ever seen all their scenes. And no, the Disney worlds don't "loop" so PLEASE let go of this when trying to make sense of the lore.
I had so much fun with the previous videos but this one is really bugging me, all those things really make the quality of this series go down in my opinion.
2:00:25 "i feel like i've just turned everybody camp in the past couple hours" and thank you for your service 🫡
2:15:24 forbidden funko pop vanitas
I mean you’re not wrong but I hate that you’re right