Gen 9 Pokémon designs fall flat
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- Опубліковано 16 бер 2023
- Paldea has its highlights, but the Pokémon designs are not one of them. Today, I explore why the Pokémon designs didn't work for me, and what I liked about the few that did.
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Before I get another comment complaining about my description of certain Pokémon as "not looking like Pokémon"…
There is no limit to what a Pokémon can be, but Pokémon has an established design language, a certain aesthetic that helps us look at a new creature and see a Pokémon. Pushing the limits isn't a bad thing and can sometimes yield very successful results, but not if you go too far and I no longer see a Pokémon when I look at a new creature.
I'm sure you'll all agree that, for example, Digimon generally don't look like Pokémon-they have a completely different approach to creature design. When I look at a Pokémon like Dondozo, I don't see a Pokémon, I see Jabun from The Legend of Zelda. When I look at Mabosstiff, I see Marc Anthony from Looney Tunes. When I look at Gholdengo, I see the string cheese man.
This aesthetic is largely established by precedent, and it evolved over time, so maybe with a few more years some of these will look less dissonant, but for now, they don't work for me. If this isn't a genuine criticism, I don't know what is.
Fair enough, Pokémon designs do have a certain element that makes Pokémon look like Pokémon, and I can see why deviating so much from that in some of these designs can feel unnatural.
Really? I feel like between my time on UA-cam and other sites people say so many pokemon don't look like pokemon, that I can make an entire pokedex for a fan game of pokemon that people say don't look like pokemon. When I see Mabosstiff I see Granbull, and Dondozo Whiscash.
Hell call me a Boomer but I remember when the Unova Starters were revealed and people complained that they didn't look like pokemon, and now I'm sure a lot of people would wish that new pokemon looked like them.
Yeah, they clearly want to make a different monster catching game and it can be seen in the Trainer's designs as well imo. We have strayed away from the old character designs into something totally different.
They kust don't have the balls to call it something else and not cash-in on the Pokemon aspect. So the franchise becomes a mish mash of so many different design-philosophies.
EXACTLY THIS. I love ceruledge but that's a megaman robot master not a pokemon and the other one is megaman
@@gywii A: Gamefreak DOES make other games
B: Trainer designs? What are you talking about? Do you mean the art style, where they have noses and more defined faces?
Farigiraf is one of my favorite designs in recent years, just such a perfect evolution for girafarig. I love it’s color scheme, it’s helmet closing into its former tail, unique abilities, such a goat
The boxy design of Skeledirge is likely inspired by the alebrije sculptures which are often very colourful and full of intricate designs.
My problem with most evos is that they seem dijointed from features of previos evos. Hens skelederge angelnes looks weird on mostly round line
Inspiration alone does not equal good design.
I'm Mexican and grew up looking at lots of souvenir alebrijes around the city center.
If I didn't recognize my own culture in a character, then that's not the best character design.
honestly my problem with skeledirge is not that its boxy. we've had boxy pokemon before. pokemon designs to me have the charming awkwardsness of plastic toys. unable to move properly because theyre designed to be cute instead of functional.
skeledirge looks awkward in the way a regular ass animal would if expected to do a fire breathe.
One Paldea pokemon I love that I think is underated to others is Cyclizar. It seamlessly combines the wheels, seat and windshield of a motorbike with the curled tail, had crest and dewlap of a lizard. It is simple enough to easily see it is the bridge between Koraidon and Miraidon, while also being complex enough to stand as its own natural, single stage pokemon. I also love how integrated it is with normal life in Paldea, as in many parts of the game you can see people sitting on their back for transport, and some even have modifications (Where do I get those!?). Overall, a great pokemon in my opinion that I used on my team.
One of the issues I had personally with this regional Pokedex is that it felt like it had some smaller issues with some lines seemingly missing or having extra members and others feeling kinda unfinished which kind of stacked together to make larger issues. Some of these issues I think are easier to dwell on as it's harder to take design discordance as intentional in the last few gens when the games have had such substantial performance and polish issues for the flagship releases.
The Pawmi/mo/mot line really didn't need to be three stages as they were all so similar that it felt like they didn't even evolve. None of the stages are individually bad, they just are tremendously similar in design and size.
The Finizen/Palafin line feels like it didn't actually need a second evolution for the form change. If Palafin was just a rare form like female Combee/Salandit it would make more sense to me. As it is, the evolution rather than form feels a bit like it was tacked on just to have the odd evolution requirement on something rather than because it actually 'evolved' in any way.
The Flittle/Espathra line only barely are identifiable as relatives, much less direct evolutions. Going from 'chick' to 'adult' isn't necessarily bad but the change is enormous in size and complexity. A comparable idea I feel like is if Tynamo evolved directly into Eelektross. You can probably figure out the connection eventually but it skips a substantial bridging step in a line that feels like it needs that step.
Varoom/Revaroom are Pokemon I actually generally like, but I am always confused by the kinda odd wheel/body construction they have when they could have just been floating engines in toxic clouds or had bodies made of actual scrap parts rather than what seems to be shaped rocks? It just doesn't seem like it represents either Steel or Poison much and feels like a draft of the body was signed off on. The special moves being enemy exclusive also makes me feel like this was wrapped up abruptly especially with the rather simple and kinda odd movepool/signature move it has.
The Gimmighoul/Gholdengo evolution is one that I have trouble accepting even if the basics make sense in the shape and such (it's just stacked coins and the belt is the strap from the chest). It just feels like a weird direction to take a Mimic design from 'basic Mimic' to '90's snack food ad character' Like, I personally would have expected something like original Yamask/Cofagrigus where evo 1 is a softer riff on the design and the evo is the amped up version. Gimmighoul's Pokedex entries are the archetypal Mimic, it basically eats people that try to take it's stuff. Gholdengo is a super friendly humanoid and loses everything that made it a Mimic seemingly. If Gholdengo was a second evo in a split line like Slowpoke > Slowbro or Slowking and the alternative evo was a bigger meaner chest I think I could accept it more. As it is, it just doesn't feel like an evolution or a subversion, just random.
Anyway, nice video and neat Pokemon evaluator. Hopefully it sees a lot of use!
Short explanation about Revaroom, it is made of stone and is a poison type because Spain is a world lider when the topic is green energy, with Revavroom showing that cars are old and bad. One of the places that you mostly encounter it is in one of Spain's healthiest cities, wich shows that Revavroom has an explanations for being a cave man car
Edit: Also, Palafin is an evolution bacause anyone can be a hero. That message would be ruined if it was a special form
I was surprised to hear that many people online, who are usually very critical of Pokemon designs, *loved* the designs of this region. I really... didn't. Most of them felt bland, and this coming from someone who usually likes most Pokemon, even if I'm not a huge fan of their designs! I just couldn't find myself connecting with many of the designs... However, I think Paldea has one of the strongest sets of starters yet.
Thank you for the reassurance that I am not alone in this feeling!
OMG yes
I agree! I feel like Pokémon really hit the mark for the last 3 gens, gen 7 and 8 were exceptionally great imo, every design was connected to the regions they were based on and conceptually deep. I feel like gen 9 was just ticking off some of their old ideas like a dolphin pokemon or a grass/fire type. I think it also comes from being a bigger dex with quantity over quality being desired.
@@kenzihenderson5258 totally, my only complaint about gen 8 designs is the starters (they are so bad imo)
I wonder if that is a bad sign that those who generally do not like the Pokémon designs like the Paldean Pokémon in that the Paldean Pokémon are too much a departure from Pokémon such that they now start really appealing to non-Pokémon fans
It's interesting listening to people's thoughts of the Gen 9 Pokemon considering some of the designers who worked on SV also worked on BW. The art director for SV, Mana Ibe, debuted in Gen 5 as a Pokemon designer.
Yusuke Kozaki, who designed Toxel, Toxtricity, and Falinks for Gen 8, returns as a Pokemon designer. He designed Cetoddle, Cetitan, Varoom, and Revaroom.
Hitoshi Ariga, who has done a lot of Pokemon since Gen 6, made the Nacli Line, Espathra, and Flutter Mane. Honestly, I thought it was cool that he designed Flutter Mane considering Misdreavus is his favorite Pokemon.
Megumi Mizutani, who seems to be a very popular Pokemon and Character designer, made the Tinkaton and Maushold lines. Her recent stuff was Hisuian Arcanine and the Gen 8 player characters, Victor and Gloria.
Gen 9 also introduced new designers like Kazuyuki Kurashima, who is known for his unique character and monster designs in games like Super Mario RPG. He was the one behind Greavard and Houndstone. I always thought those two stuck out more compared to the rest. They kinda sorta remind of the Heartless of Kingdom Hearts 1, but I'm sure fans of his works can pin out his design motifs than I can.
If I had some least favorites, I would probably say Revaroom and Bramblegast.
It's funny seeing these lists and noticing how my tastes in Pokémon clearly do not line up with any of these artists. Tinkaton and Maushold coming from the same artist, for example, is wild because to me they fall on completely opposite ends of the Pokémon spectrum. Tinkaton is perfect; Maushold does nothing for me.
@UmbreonLibris Yeah same thing with Kozaki's designs. I adore Cetoddle, but indifferent to Revaroom.
I’ll admit that this gen added a bunch of Pokémon I hated at first, but that I grew to be indifferent later, just more designs to my “I will forget this exists” mental drawer
i understand the feeling but i definitely do not agree on having strict guidelines on what a pokemon should look like or not. like, i also dont like mabosstiff or squawkabilly for being simple and all that and even tho i really like the charcadet line i wish it was less detailed, but i find really exciting when each generation comes out with new pokemon that don't look like anything we've seen before because after 25 years and 900+ pokemon its gonna be hard to make up new mons with the same old formula that can manage to make people excited. i like looking at a pokemon and say "that does not look like a pokemon" because it breaks the barriers of what a pokémon should look like and opens the possibility of future designs that surprise me in the same way i was surprised when i was a kid.
also some advice on the page (which i really like!), i think itd be cool to rate the concept of the pokemon. using a recent example, i don't like dudunsparce's design either but I actually find the joke very funny, or something like voltorb who is just a pokeball having been born as pokemon's answer to mimics is something that elevates my opinion on it a lot
I don't have any strict guidelines about what a Pokémon should look like. It's entirely a gut feeling based on precedent and their established design language. And it's good to push the boundaries on that, until you go too far and I no longer see a Pokémon when I look at a new creature.
Rating the concept would definitely be interesting, but that would be a completely different project. What makes a good concept is very different from what makes a good design. I fully expect the concepts to play into people's "I like it" ratings, though.
the new Pokemon feel more like B or C tiers with only a few in A tier or D tier, while in the older gens it feels a bit more extreme for me. None of the new Pokemon look bad to me but they just feel like fluff or filler
Whether I live or die, I'm going through every one of these Pokemon until I round back to Mienshao.
Mienshao is cool Pokémon but unfortunately it got outclassed by too many good fighting types
@@yarc9
I mean... I was saying that I started with Mienshao and now I'm going to rate every single Pokemon, which I did
The "Rate Pokemon" thing is actually pretty cool.
I had a lot of the same preferences as you mentioned in the video. Every gen, I need at least a handful of “I need that on my team!” Pokémon, and I didn’t really get any with Gen 9. Maybe Floragato if it didn’t devolve into Meowscarada...
i wonder if anyone would like tinkaton if she didnt have the hammer. then i remember farfetch'd line and how they are just birds with swords and realize the weapons are the whole appeal
I'm one of the few that don't like Tinkaton because I really don't care about the hammer and think the actual design of the Mon is just not my taste
I had issues with the paradox mon, both the past and future ones for different reasons. The fact the future ones were all robot had some very not-good implications for what the future of the world is going to be like. And their names are a lot more boring than the past ones. But the past ones missed out on some huge opportunities. I was hoping to see some common ancestry links in them, but instead we only got 1-to-1 examples. Scream Tail could have elements from other fairy or rabbit-like pokemon, instead it's JUST Jigglypuff. You'd think with the idea of convergent evolution they introduced this generation, they would have embraced that idea in their paradox ideas
Absolutely. As much as I like certain designs individually, overall they are one big missed opportunity.
I think they will go for the idea that the Time Machine was actually a dream machine, so these past and future mons are not really from the past and future, like they are not canon
While I have a preference for robots over dinosaurs, both sets of Paradox 'mons feel almost too direct and not as diverse as they could be- aside from Iron Valiant/Gallavoir or whatever it could've been named.
@@adrigl3371 Yeah I've seen that theory going around too. I HOPE that's what they're going for, otherwise as I said above, kinda disappointing from an evolutionary standpoint. But til Indigo Disk I don't think we're getting anything concrete
"Almost like they're from the same company"
Yes, I believe that's the point. They're more compact and uniform, as opposed to the comically oversized and wild past paradox forms.
I sure hope that's the point because otherwise I don't know what they were thinking. But that won't make me like them.
As someone who hates mushrooms, Toedscool is a blessing to this world!
I think the two convergent mons were chosen to be "joke" ones (aka boring Gen 1 Pkmn) BECAUSE they're just there to introduce the idea without overcomplicating it, so that as many players as possible can properly grasp the concept of convergent Pokemon.
(and believe me, there was and still is a lot of Pokemon fans who do not get it despite that)
It may not seem like the idea is employed beyond its basic introduction, but I'd argue that it lays the ground for the Paradox Pokemon, who dial up that idea straight into extreme directions.
...I would've liked to see some convergent mons that are more in the middle instead of absolute basic or robopocalypse-level, but you won't see me complain about not getting enough Pokemon when this is the first time since Gen5 that the Nr. of initially introduced designs is actually above 100. I am simply looking forward to some "solid" regular convergent mons in the future.
AND it has a silly run
i love all the silly mons this gen, though i get why someone wouldnt!
I knew about you not liking a lot of the mons, but Spidops is a new one!
I'm here like, when has a 2 stage early bug ever been this fun before? I love the way it makes the web, I appreciate seeing them jump at me from trees, and it somehow looks like some kind of military equipment that was forgotten in the field while simultaneously just looking like a Bug type Pokemon.
It's like if Kricketot evolved into a Kleavor or something xD
I'll take Ribombee, Ledian or even Ariados over Spidops. The way it moves is cool but that's about it
I love spidops. Pairing it with Meowscarada feels perfect too, since it starts as a ball of yarn and becomes an invisible operative, while Meowscarada starts as a kitten and becomes a center stage magician. Both use invisible strings. It just feels like they compliment each other in the narrative.
Spidops is one of my favorites this gen.
Spidops is really cool. It’s a trap spider that literally uses traps to attack. Such a cool gimmick.
@@UmbreonLibris "No, my spider is cooler than your spider!😢"
@@UmbreonLibris I agree with you Spidops sucks lol
Sadly, I agree that the designs felt lackluster this generation. I know Fuecoco was the fan favorite in terms of stage 1 starters, but it felt like it was trying too hard to be cute. I ended up choosing it because I thought Skeledirge was the best final stage starter, although its design felt too uneven for me.
Grafaifai and Lokix tied for my favorite mons of the generation. I actually liked Orthoworm, but that was mostly because of the tendril arms, otherwise, I wouldn't have caught it.
I'm surprised people are actually critiquing Skeledirge in some of these design videos and opinion videos I've seen. Online I see nothing but love for it when I find it to be... A poor execution of what it's going for. There were so many fan designs that did a better job at selling the cool dio de los muertos appeal and I know people clamor for and love 4 legged started but I find this one a little too much. The more realistic croc body that super flat on the ground and angular design makes it standing for it's signature look really weird and awkward to me and adds an anthropomorphic quality to a design that just doesn't reflect that well
Pawmot: I LOVE Pawmot, just not the evolution progression.
Oinkcolonge: I honestly don’t know why I expected something good out of the early route normal type.
Mabostiff: I like Mabostiff whenever it opens its enormous mouth.
Dudunsparce: is unironically one of my favorites of the generation. I like the joke, but I also just…love snake like creatures
I feel like the main reason for convergent forms was just to give regional variants new names.
[7 minutes in]
WAIT THIS IS A FKIN TOP 5 VIDEO? Where am I??? HELP
I very much disagree with many opinions in this video as I am very satisfied with the designs, but I loved hearing your opinions about the Ruinous Quartet and I fully agree that Wo-Chien is the best designed mon of the Generation.
My team consisted of Meowscarada, Grafaiai, Kilowattrel, Annihilape, Dachsbun and Ceruledge and I'll probably have to do at least three more playthroughs to use all the new mons I'd love to use in a team
I either found another bot or just another person who just seems to enjoy trash because all the new Pokemon design is utterly awful. Perhaps the standards have become so low that people accept everything these days.
@@gon2soku273"people who have slightly different opinions than ME?!! BOT!"
@@nift36it is pretty unbelievable that anyone could conceive having a different opinion than me.
glimmet and glimmora are my absolute favorite out of this gen and have become some of my favorite pokemon of all time! i think there is something to be said about how alien their designs appear to be, but i personally think it helps them stand out immensely and accentuates their already creative and clever design inspirations. and i don't think they're so alien that it feels like theyre ultra beasts (which i also love) - something about them feels fundamentally 'friend-shaped' to me, especially with the way they twirl around and respond to being washed or when you play with them.
i absolutely agree that gholdengo feels like something from a different franchise though. it hasn't grown on me at all in the months since i first played scarlet... and i feel like its appearance doesn't suit its stats/battle niche at all? make it rain is a horrifically powerful base 120 move that hits both foes but not allies (whereas earthquake is base 100 and hits your allies too) and yet its the signature move of the like, string cheese coin guy. it reminds me of how electrode has a gargantuan base 150 speed stat and yet nothing about its design conveys "speed" (i guess it can... roll?). and while i can sort of give electrode a pass purely because of how old it is, gholdengo being so powerful almost feels like a joke at our expense somehow? or maybe its just power creep... regardless, i really dislike its design
I definetely agree! I would never guessed Gholdengo was a special attacker, much less a fast one. Maybe pokemon just associates money with "special attackers." Like Alolan Persian somewhat
“This video sponsored by Raaa…tepkmn” my heart sank to the depths of hell for 0.2 seconds there :P
I mostly liked Gen 9, but heavy agree on the Future Paradoxes. Truly wish they went at least for different “visions” of the future, like retrofuturism of the middle of last century and sleek plastic futurism from the early 2000s or something! Imagine one of those translucent, plastic shells of old computer devices! Stainless steel appliance Pokemon will become very dated when IRL stops treating it as trendy and futuristic, too. Since that’s ALL of them they won’t be able to fall back on being like… a variety of future visions?
I honestly like most of the gen 9 Pokémon, even the bad ones have a unique trait that sticks out for me, and I hold a belief that there are no bad Pokémon. Also, anything can be a Pokémon, that's been made clear, so I don't really get mad at mons that are just cartoon animals, there goofy, and that's what makes Pokémon, Pokémon for me.
Also I made some pixel art of the Baxcalibur you redesigned, I put in on a poll on my channel, I hope you like it.
Technically there's no bad anything if you just choose not to interpret it that way, but I feel like saying "there's no bad X" isn't really the most critically coherent argument. It communicates to me that the person making that argument is choosing to view something uncritically in favor of appreciating it on its merits regardless of its flaws.
@@michaeleanthonyjr I'm not trying to view these guys uncritically, I do think there are bad Pokémon, and there are Pokémon I don't like(Inteleon is really weird and ugly), I just think that every Pokémon has at least one unique redeeming factor that makes it interesting(Inteleon having a cool spy gimmick). That's why I think there are no bad pokemon 'cause even the really bad ones have something going for them that resonates with me and maybe others.
Ex. Squakibilly being a kinda boring design, but having an attitude and different factions based on color. Bruxish being ugly, but vibrant and based on a really interesting animal. And the elemental monkeys, despite being really ugly and bad, having that cool inspiration and decent prevos with a helpful role in the game.
@@PhonyLyzard I tend to value the execution of a concept more than the concept overall. The elemental monkeys are generally disliked because their execution is poor, which is exactly why execution matters. Intel eon as a spy concept is cool, but it would be cooler if it was more visually appealing. Every bad design still has its merits, but bad is still bad. I think we can both agree with that
@@michaeleanthonyjr I do agree on that. I never thought they were good, just that there was at least something there that stook out in a special way, at least for me, which is why I have that philosophy of "there are no bad Pokémon," cause they all have something I enjoy, they're still not that good though, I agree.
Meanwhile I'm here feasting on this incredible roster of new mons where I have instant faves left and right!
I had a similar issue with the Future Paradoxes as you did. I was expecting something like the Future is Wild series, where it went to them speculative evolution of Pokémon adapting to future conditions.
However, I've warmed up do them as seeing them a bit more (I still prefer the past ones). Though I wonder if the fact the "manufactured" look was intentional to imply some sort of dystopia were a bunch of Pokemon were turned into cyborgs by some sort of mad scientist like Eggman making the badniks in the Sonic series.
The thing is, they're not real pokémon from the actual past or future, they're creatures generated from what the people exploring Area Zero imagined exaordinary creatures would be like. It just so happens that people from Scarlet reveared the past, while the ones from Violet admired the future, so that influenced their imagination. They're not time travelling mons, they're made up; they're called paradoxes cause they couldn't have possibly existed in the real pokémon world
Gen 9 is the first generation where I do not like more than half of the Pokémon. Don’t get me wrong I have certain favorites that I like but as a whole this Generation was a let down in terms of Pokémon design . I hope next Gen 10 is much better.
A rare disagreement! I feel like this gen, while not my favorite (Gens 7-8 remain my favorites in terms of design), it still generally hit the mark with almost every Pokémon. I guess it was just tailor-made to disagree with certain types of fans, as most gens tend to. Everyone has a gen they vastly dislike the designs of, I guess Gen 9 is just destined to be yours.
I agree with a lot of what you say. Many of the designs were disappointing. Highlights for me were Toedscool and Chi-Yu; the latter being my new favourite legendary.
This was pretty much my experience playing too, this gen is just *not* my aesthetic. They're ok, but they're sort of average to me. Didn't help that I think this is the worst final evolution starter trio of all times... and I didn't even like the gen 8 ones!
Oh wow, I _cannot_ put the Paldean starters below the Galarian ones! But I'm glad I'm not alone in feeling this gen was off.
Imo gen 8s slightly worse starters but its a close race
@@UmbreonLibris What redeems the Galar starters for me is that I absolutely love scorbunny on its own and I just never evolved mine, so I never had to confront how much I disliked the final evolutions 🤣
And I think the Paldea trio also looks even worse to me because they in absolutely no way fit the region. You can tie them to the real world location of Spain and Portugal, but you can not in any way tie them to Paldea. As much as I dislike cinderace and rillaboom at least the entire game is centered around big sport arenas, and there's a music themed gym leader and a music performance featuring rillaboom in a way that makes sense. There is no carnival in Paldea, there are no human carnival dancers or a carnival themed town. There's no music or performance stage. None of the Paldean starters feel like they belong in the region.
@EliteTrainerLin
You know that's a fair criticism I didn't think about. I still like them design wise better but I can understand wanting themed stuff around the region if the starters are going to "have jobs "
i think the editor had a lotta fun with this one.. tell em i said "thanks!"
kingambit is too overdesigned, they ruined bisharp, a pokémon i really liked
This
This gen made me appreciate the designs of 7 and 8 so much more.
That 'late game connection and seeing them use moves' is why I enjoy Liam's Metromania and Form Fight segments
toedscool is incredible, i had no idea what it was going in and once i got it and saw him run it was so funny that guys great
not a fan of its or wigletts evos though they somehow feel less unique than their pre-evolutions
How does this man critiques half the pokedex for not being "pokemon-like" and still puts Garganacl on his top 5 designs of the region?
You deserve jail-time sir.
Yeah, Garganacl really does fit the "not a typical Pokemon design" criticism (still like it though one of my favorite rock types)
@@shyguyrocks1 wish it resembled a more natural-looking rock. Anyway, glad people like Pyramid Head.
I really dislike fuecocos evolutions, they are both way too awkward and I can’t imagine them in an action scenario
quaquaval needed to be more than boring water type colours 😭my boy deserves a rainbow
Ting-Lu's antlers is a cauldron from ancient Oriental civilization, these are heated for cooking and making "dan" (marble-shaped medicine). Some legends say the ancient China Emperor had people to try and make medicine that grant immortality.
unpopular opinion!!! I like the future forms more than the past forms, the past forms only make the pokemon more monsters and it is very simple that they only make them look like dinosaurs and thats it.
Gen 9’s Dex actually has one of the most consistent vibes to me. Not good, not bad, but consistency, and I honestly like that. Every design, at least to me, does feel like a Pokémon at its core. And what’s interesting to me is that I seem to dislike the designs that a lot of people love, especially some of the paradoxes, while also liking ones that people dislike. For example, I HATE Scream Tail and Flutter Mane, because I think the concepts behind them are weak and the Pokémon used are Pokémon not in need of any special attention. Meanwhile, while ALL of the Future Paradox Pokemon seem to have weak concepts due to just being robots, I love Iron Bundle because of the idea to turn the pouch into a cannon, while also paying some special attention to Delibird.
With the starters, I think overall, this might be one of my favorite sets since Gen 4. Meowscarada combines so many things into one cohesive design that I love it, Skeledirge is by far the coolest and most conceptually interesting fire starter, and Quaquaval’s extravagant design pairs perfectly with it’s personality, which made me so upset to hear the take “if it stopped moving, maybe I’d be able to appreciate it more.” It felt like the point of the Pokémon was either missed or brushed aside.
I also have grown to despise the “it doesn’t feel like a Pokémon” take. If we’re gonna start throwing that phrase around too often, most of the Gen 1 and 2 dexes don’t feel like Pokémon. They feel like anime takes on animals. If we keep using that as an argument for why we don’t like Pokémon, we’ll end up deconstructing every single region at some point and then we’ll all just end up angry. For example, saying that Ceruledge and Armarouge don’t really feel like Pokémon when Gardevoir exists as one of the most well known Pokémon(for both good and awful reasons) doesn’t really make sense to me.
The issue I have personally with the Gen is that a lot of the Pokémon just aren’t for me, and that’s ok. Some I liked at first, like Tinkaton and Grafaiai, actively ended up being some of my least favorites from this Gen. Meanwhile, others like Bombirdier, Dudunsparce, Tatsugiri and Dondozo just aren’t that appealing to me, despite feeling at their core like the concepts were executed well.
Some flubbed the base idea of their designs though. Houndstone felt like the “it just gets bigger” thing to the extreme, Pawmo felt forced into the Pawmi line for no justifiable reason, and the idea of Goldengho being a Pokémon based off of trophies wasn’t executed properly and just ended up making people think of a string cheese mascot.
I did have my favorites though, some for very different reasons than others, but here is my top ten from this region.
1. Skeledirge: the most interesting fire starter.
2. Farigiraf: an interesting evolution for a Pokémon that needed it.
3. Cyclizar: better than both of the legendaries; keeps the idea of a bike lizard and executes it the best in my opinion.
4. Palafin: I like superheroes, and Palafin is a love letter to them.
5. Baxcalibur: possibly the Pokémon most inspired by Godzilla in the best possible way, to the point that it’s signature move is a reference to the old Godzilla movies.
6. Iron Valiant: great fusion of two awesome Pokemon into one badass terminator.
7. Annihilape: Primeape needed some love, and what better way than to give it an evolution that builds on previously established dex entries.
8. Quaquaval: I used to dislike it, but now I’ve fallen in love with it thanks to it’s signature style.
9. Wo Chien: my favorite of the Ruinous Pokémon, and the one I actually like.
10. Revavroom: one of the best takes on an object Pokemon I’ve seen in a while. I couldn’t tell you why I like it so much, I just do.
I agree with pretty much all of this, I think my main complaint this gen isn't the designs but the evolutions (which I think is also what makes me dislike the starter trios gen 5-8) - Pokemon like Pawmo, Bramblin and Baxscalibur were so disappointing to me even though I don't think I'd hate their designs if they stood alone. On the other hand Quaquaval is my favourite design and I think it helps that it fits so perfectly with Quaxley due to their shared show-off-ness
Honestly, at this point, basically any design is a Pokémon so long as it is not one-dimensional in concept and you can contrive a power system and an interesting set of concepts and/or animals to design around, so long as the design is animalistic or in the case of Grass types, plant-like/mushroom-like/rhizome-like/lichen-like/etc.
What really matters is the era of Pokémon design you wish to crib from.
it's always funny to see what the opinions on new designs are. i also felt that many designs fell flat, but i think tinkaton is one of the weaker designs in the dex (well, ton is not bad at all, but it gets dragged very, VERY far down by its previous evos) while farigiraf is one of the standouts -- taking a previously frankly kinda ugly pokemon and making it much more appealing while expanding on the base concept. guess it goes to show you that most pokemon look like pokemon, since no one can agree on what a pokemon is supposed to look like
I just despise the bland and uninspiredness of the future paradox Pokémon, like... Cmon, making them all robots is such an insipid and dumb idea.
Imma keep it real, i dont think any design will satisfy you
I guess you didn't watch the part where I talk about the designs I liked
@@UmbreonLibris I did but all the criticism you gave to the other pokemon can be used to the ones you do like. In one case you said farigaraf doesn't have the same charm as girafarig. But it's not girafarig, it's grown up now and evolved
I'm surprised you didn't mention Espathra! Encountering it in the desert was so memorable to me!
I’m kinda shocked that you didn’t like so many of the pokemon this gen. Especially toedscool. The first time I saw it running around was shocking, hilarious, and super exciting. I think its a perfect combo of funny and cool, and I felt that way about a lot of the pokemon in Paldea
I actually did enjoy a lot of the new Pokémon than you did. More than I was expecting actually. Though most of your top five were my favorite. I loved the Dudunsparce joke but you already knew that from a previous video.
Was kinda lukewarm on the Tandemaus family but the weird evolution sort of upped my liking of it and also seeing them opened their mouths and then giving me that “oh these are weird kinda freaky creatures” improved them for me
The reasons why you don’t like Toedscool is the same reasons why I think Toedscool succeeds. I hate fungi and I think it and Toedscool truly embodies the disgusting uncanniness that I see in them so as a weird fungus creature Toedscool works even though I viscerally hate the creature: not because it seems uninspired but because it is successfully itself.
I like Pawmott and it was part of my final team, my main issue is that it should’ve been a 2 stage Pokémon and Pawmo was just kind of a weird waste.
You and I are on the same page with Floragato and Meowscarada. It is a perfect 2 stage line with a less than stellar final stage. I’m amazed by the number of starters this keeps happening for me.
While I love my Skeledirge, I do agree it’s too boxy. However I was surprised by how much of a fan I became of Quaquaval’s design. I don’t know why but it is just a joy for me. I just love the concept and I think it’s fun and funny. Every time I see it I hear Miror B’s theme from Pokémon Colosseum and I just love the Carnaval Duck-to-Peacock design. While Quaxwell is pretty much the most mediocre of the middle stages this run.
I’m actually a fan of Dondozo and Tatsugiri and they feel like Pokémon to me but they also feel like giant fish gods in Legend of Zelda and a Yokai watch creature respectively. I feel like looking like from Pokémon and another franchise can work. which is ironic because while I like the Charcadet line I’m still getting used to the fact that they’re Megaman Zero characters in Pokémon, but they’re growing on me as Pokémon.
So, yeah, Gholdengo is actually one of my favorites. Maybe I just like some of the humanoid Pokémon of this Gen more than I ever have previous gens, I don’t know, it I just love it’s cheesy aesthetic, the goofy smile, the evolution of the glasses to goggles from the also very cute Gimmieghoul, the re-incorporation of the chest, and the fact it surfs on its own coins. It’s just a very joyous Pokémon for me. Maybe there’s just something about celebratory like it and Quaquaval that does it for me.
I think the fact that I chose based on Color preference was a detriment to me because I have preferred Armorouge, Koraidon, and the Past Paradox Pokémon significantly more than their Violet counterparts. Ceruledge feels overdone v Armorouge to me, I love the lizard-y-ness of Koraidon over Miraidon actually using its wheels that everyone else seems to like. And while the past Paradox Pokémon come across more like our ideas of the past rather than actual prehistoric creatures they bring a lot more interesting design philosophies to them than CHROME. I even like Brute Bonnet for being so weird.
I actually have some additional thoughts about Walking Wake but this is going on long enough so that’ll be for another time. Overall cool video to get more of your perspective on these things and getting to discuss the designs of the Pokémon here. I can’t wait to test out your design rater, that’s going to be so fun. Can’t wait to see the results.
My personal favourite design is great tusk, which you can get before the late game, but I didn't know it respawned. And also I didn't even realise how much I liked donphan until after I beat the game, I started playing crystal and caught a phanpy and fell in love with the design. In either gonna use it in a second playthrough or catch one and use it in the dlc. Im also toying with the idea of transferring my donphan up from crystal but I might not because I just prefer great tusk more and want the chance to use it.
You went a lot easier on this Dex than I did. The second the dex was released and I saw the lineup I knew I would never touch this game. If I could describe Gen 9 in a word it would be “generic”. The designs are so lazy and uninspired, most of the dex looks like into enemies you’d run into in a JRPG like dragon quest.
I do like that the one time the designs became generic, they actually put a classic Mimic design in, made the small thing inside the Pokémon, then made it noodly upon evolution. This is especially baffling since Pokémon has always had its own versions of mimics based off of Pokéballs, like the Voltorb line, the Foongus line, and even the toungues of Galarian Stunfisk.
I agree with many of the criticisms (not with all) but the one that I related with the most was Skeledirge's body. It was the first thing that it caught my attention when I saw it, and it made me not like it.
Like most of the comments, it would seem, I don't agree with the majority of your negative opinions on this, but I do appreciate you laying out your grievances in an understandable way. Even with our tastes being quite different, I was able to easily get where you're coming from.
i like how this wasnt just 18 minutes of crapping on "disliked" pokemon designs, and, to be fair, it is a shame a lot of the "better" pokemon appear later in the game. however, i have 3 main points to not necessarily counter the arguments, but rather simply reply to them.
1. pokemon can literally be anything. i like that gamefreak is experimenting with pokemon, making very cartoony pokemon that actually have more thought put into them than ur probably think. u get to decide what a pokemon is to you, but, imo, i would rather just base the design off of whether i like it or not, especially since pokemon is getting more experimental, and especially with scarlet and violet.
2. its clear gamefreak also decided to focus heavily on the stats, moves, and abilities of these pokemon, more so than older gens, one of the best examples being palafin, with interesting stat changes via its ability while also getting a signature move. i feel like this added layer of individuality helps to connect u to ur pokemon even more, although i will admit most of these newer moves and abilities are given to the already solid pokemon who dont need it as much as something like brambleghast. either way, i feel like we need to take into account all aspects of the pokemon to truly rate it, unless u want to only focus on the looks of the pokemon.
3. i think allowing people to build bonds with "weaker" pokemon is pretty cool. pokemon has forever been about building bonds with your pokemon, regardless of power and even looks in some occasions, and the greatest example is the mascot, pikachu, which is iconic but isnt necessarily the coolest or cutest and isnt very strong either. id prefer if there was a good mix of the better and worse pokemon throughout the story, instead of the better ones being mainly towards the end, but, whether gamefreak intended it or not, i still kinda like the approach they went with. who knows, maybe they did this to get you to warm up to the designs you probably wouldnt initially like.
1. See the pinned comment. A creature not feeling like a Pokémon has nothing to do with how much thought was put into it.
2. I did get exceptionally unlucky with the abilities. In both save files I played, the Bellibolt I caught had Static, not Electromorphosis. My Espathra had Frisk, not Opportunist. My Garganacl had Sturdy, not Purifying salt. (Sturdy is the better ability for most in-game purposes, but it's also less interesting.) My Kilowattrel had Volt Absorb, not Wind Power. My Kingambit had Defiant, not Supreme Overlord. Even with Pokémon that don't have a signature ability, I tended to get the less interesting one, like my Clodsire having Poison Point instead of Water Absorb. And to make things worse, you can't buy Ability Capsules until the end of the game.
3. People have always been able to bond with weaker Pokémon, so I'm not sure what you're getting at. I don't particularly care if my Pokémon are strong or not. I'll put away a Pokémon that seems to be struggling in battle (like I did with Tandemaus and Gimmighoul) but I'll also put away a Pokémon that gets too strong (I tend not to use legendaries, for example). I'll happily keep a Pokémon at an unevolved stage, but on a first playthrough, I don't usually know what a Pokémon might evolve into, and the only way to find out is to evolve it.
@@UmbreonLibris
1. After seeing the comment, I get what u mean. Only time will tell if this is direction pokemon is going into or if this was just a one off thing.
2. It's sad to see u didn't get the cooler abilities, and I guess it does come down to luck (or if ur willing to try and catch multiple). Gamefreak already made the Pokemon more individualistic by giving them these abilities, so the next step would probably be to make them easier to find.
3. I kind of used the term "weaker" loosely, I meant mainly pokemon u (speaking generally here) might not like very much at the beginning design-wise in general. Like flamigo, it seemed kind of boring to be at the beginning, but, when I actually played with it, I actually started to appreciate it's pretty simple design a little more, and that was probably due to the cooler pokemon, like the paradox mons, being so late in the game, as I tend to not limit what pokemon I catch and just go for the strongest. This game kinda made me want to choose "weaker" Pokemon more than normal. Like I said, it would have been best to have a mix throughout, but im fine with the coolest pokemon being late game.
i didn't think a new batch of pokemon could do any less for me than Galar's did, but at least in Sword i was able to build a complete team of newcomers that interested me (plus Rillaboom, cause i'd feel bad about ditching a starter). in Scarlet i had to pad it out with Volcarona and Hydreigon to get by
on the other hand, in a dramatic case of quality vs quantity, the Treasure quartet feel almost specifically catered to my personal tastes. they're one of my favorite legendary sets in the entire franchise and i wish they'd been introduced in a more functional game
As I so often do, I agree with your take Libris, and you're not the only PokéTuber to share this sentiment. Grafaiai is the 1A best Pokémon of this generation imo, and I think it's no accident that it was one of the extremely few they revealed prior to release - they showed only Pokémon that fit with the established design trends, of which there *are* so few.
Something else I wanted to note was that despite liking Tinkaton, its pre-evolution Tinkatink is the MOST "that doesn't look like a Pokémon" Pokémon I have EVER seen.
I remember seeing pawmi and getting really excited to see what he evolved into...
I'll have to say that I actually found a lot more designs standing out as likeable in gen 9 than has been the case in quite a few generations. A lot of the designs you listed as not coming off as properly pokémon-y were some of my favourites, I think all the out-there designs managed to appeal to me by being fun in a way I haven't felt in a while. I have to wonder if part of the problem is that now people's first impression is more likely to be a 3d model from a slapped-together game rather than official art or an anime appearance. I had a strong sense that if all the Forces of Nature had been first seen in Legends Arceus, they'd all be equally disliked, rather than enamorus being a prominent unfavourite (not that the other 3 don't have their share of detractors, I guess, but still). The CGI models have a bit less distinct a style than the drawn art which I can't help but suspect may unconsciously lead people to see pokémon as coming off less like pokémon if that medium is their first impression. Or at the very least, it might push designs over the edge from reading as unusual-looking pokémon designs to complete misfits in the series.
That, and recalling the fact that I haven't been introduced to pokémon through playing the games themselves since about gen 4, and the fact that from everything I've heard, the games have been getting progressively sloppier, I have to wonder if in general the experience is diminished by the rushed games, and making it harder to bond with whatever pokémon they introduce. I could be wrong, but my impression of these pokémon very well might be affected by the fact that most of the time, I was introduced to them through browsing Bulbapedia, whose articles I always scroll to the bottom of to check out the design origins. The fact that my first impression of a pokémon these days just about always comes with a summary of their creation process (albeit not necessarily perfectly accurate) may make me more likely to appreciate them than I would just plain seeing them. Maybe that's part of why these recent 'mons left a worse taste in your mouth than mine.
In any case, thanks for sharing your thoughts. Hopefully I can get to add some more data to your website as well.
That's an interesting point, and there may be something to it but I don't think that's all of it. I've almost _exclusively_ met new Pokémon in the main series games since Gen 6 (I play almost entirely unspoiled), and Gen 9 was the first one that actually felt more difficult to find Pokémon designs I really like. Gen 6 was great, Gen 7 was one of the absolute best, Gen 8 had some weird choices but also a lot of designs I really loved. I dislike the way SV look more than I disliked previous games, so you may be right that I'm not getting the best first impression, but seeing the official art didn't really improve my opinion of any designs. SV are definitely disappointing games, but they are disappointing in part because of the designs that didn't click for me, not the other way around.
Fidough and daschbun were some of my favourites! I love food Pokémon and their special abilities « burned body » makes them protected from fire damage because they’ve already been baked! How cute is that! I also used one on my team and very much so enjoy the singe dairy typing
Oh...I love that the other breeds of Tauros are rare!
Because it creates this moment that happens way after you're familiar (and possibly underwhelmed) with Paldean Combat breed Tauros, where you eventually come across another breed and notice it (if not in the wild then from one of the NPCs using it).
And then once you DO know that another breed exists, even though it's very rare by default, there's easily available tools to turn it from rare to nearly guaranteed.
I think that was the best way to do it.
Rare until you find out and do something about it. I want more of that.
If they were going to be _that_ rare, they should have been more interesting. Since they aren't unique enough for me to want to give them a try and I don't even need them for the Pokédex, I'm just not going to bother getting them. I have a Blaze Breed from a trade but I still don't have an Aqua Breed.
PSA for anyone reading this that does want an aqua breed: literally buy a water encounter crepe at any of the stands for barely any money and walk up to a pack of tauros
@@UmbreonLibris the differences between the breeds are pretty comparable to the Urshifu forms now that I think of it. I iagine you didn't feel compelled to get both of those either? which is even more fair considering how much of a bother that is xD
Sometimes forms are just more about competitive aspects I suppose
@@AdeptCharon I played SwSh twice so I think I did get both Urshifu, but you're right, I would not have bothered otherwise.
Idk to me Dondozo feels very Pokémon
I think Gen 8 designs are much better than Gen 9, and i dont even like Gen 8
14:30 is that official art? Because it literally makes Wo-Chein look like a Yo-Kai from Yo-Kai Watch, I would not bat an eye if it were instead in that franchise
I strongly disagree on most of the takes except for a few standouts. I will never understand goldhengo. And I agree that Farigiraf doesn't capture the charm of Girafarig, but that might just be because Girafarig is my favorite pokemon so it had to do a lot to match that level. But almost everything else this dex has to offer feels almost like a shift in attitude toward what a pokemon is, but in a good way. I think Garganacl, Tinkaton, and the Charcadet line are kind of ways of going, hey, pokemon can look like this too, now, by the way. And it's interesting because, while I usually don't like humanoid pokemon at all, something about the possessed suits of armor feels right to me. It's almost like an object-mon, except the object happens to be human shaped. I think the rarity of the Tauros breeds is a good thing actually because, I had no idea they existed until way later and they were a really cool surprise, things like that and the alternate forms of maushold and dudunsparce really flesh out the game I think.
I don't think Garganacl or Tinkaton are a new approach to Pokémon at all. They feel very fitting with other recent Pokémon.
The issue with Tauros breeds isn't that they are rare, it's that they are boring, to the point that I have never bothered to even look for one. If I had seen a wild Blaze Breed relatively early on (which couldn't happen because I was playing Violet, but it's the more interesting one of the three IMO) I might have given it a chance. But by the time I learned about the other breeds, I already had Combat, and the others weren't different enough to entice me to look for them.
@@UmbreonLibris Tinkaton fits very well with old pokemon too...What? It's not the first time that they refer to Sonic!
I beat Nemona and stopped playing after and this entire time I never knew different types of Tauros existed so they did a horrid job with them, maybe cause the Tauros owner in the first town froze my game so I stopped talking to ppl
I understand the disappointment many have with the paradox Pkmn not making good enough use of the potential of "past and future relatives". But for me, that didn't take anything away, because I took them for what they are rather than what we probably all speculated they might be as we got to learn about them.
And what I think they are, is an extreme version of Wiglett/Toedscool. Pokemon that look like familiar Pokemon, but are not those Pokemon, while very clearly coming from 2 very specific kinds of "worlds",
which makes them a really unique kind of story-telling, where you get to wonder about their implied worlds from the themes of their designs a groups.
I prefer that over the Ultra beasts (as much as I like them), where the designs were so abstract and out there, that I didn't feel like I could picture at all where they came from until they literally gave us glimpses in the Ultra games that helped giving them some much needed context.
I'm curious if the DLC of SV will give us a glimpse of the worlds of the Paradox Pokemon, but even if it doesn't, I feel like it won't be as sad as if we never got to visit some Ultra homeworlds.
But to get back to the original point,
maybe some game we will get something that's more along the lines of Hisuian forms but taken a bit further without crossing all the way into direct madness... but I personally really appreciate what SV did instead here.
"the future ones all look like robots with chrome bits, glowy LED bits", exactly!
Which to me is supposed to make us question WHY that would be and go down some philosophical discussions about why things would get more diverse or more uniform in the future or the past. For example, does the uniformity of the future ones mean that life was steered by human technology or affected by certain envirnonmental factors? Did something happen that gradually weeded out whatever was NOT conforming to specific traits? Is the implied version of the future one that isn't suited for organic life at all anymore, while artificial life is being pressured into a certain mold by something or someone?
"I don't like Brute Bonnet or Sandy Shocks that much"
THOSE ARE THE BEST ONES XD
They feel crucial to me in putting the paradox into paradox Pokemon, because with those two there is simply no way to get around the fact that there is something very sus going on with Paradox Pokemon.
This is also where I am questioning whether using the term "relatives" for paradox Pokemon when comparing them to the ones they're based on is actually justified.
I am all for burning down the burnt tower myth every day of the week... but (as no surprise after my other comments) I don't think Walking Wake is an ancestor to Suicune anyway 😏
I'm glad you love it! I was shocked at how many people seemed to be put off by it looking like the perfect Qilin-inspired creature a Paradox of Suicune could ever hope to be.
Remember that I did not know about these Pokémon at all before playing the game. Aside from knowing what Koraidon and Miraidon look like, I only found out about Paradox Pokémon through what the game told me. And the game explicitly tells me that these are Pokémon from the past and future. I didn't speculate about that-it's what I was told by the game itself.
And again, even if there is an explanation for why they look the same-like being from an alternate world as you suggest-it doesn't change the fact that the extremely homogenous designs are _boring_. Why are there no Pokémon with evolutions we've never seen? No common ancestors? No completely unique Pokémon, unrelated to anything we know? Yeah cool we can speculate about the future but these are not Pokémon that even get me interested in the future at all.
How exactly do Brute Bonnet and Sandy Shocks mean there is something sus about Paradox Pokémon? I mean, obviously there is because the game itself points out gaps in the time machine explanation, but I don't see how Sandy Shocks and Brute Bonnet are part of this at all. They just show Pokémon are not real-world organisms and did not evolve (in the Darwinian sense) in the way we might expect.
man the gamefreak company bootlickers are strong in these comments. will never make sense to me why pokemon fans are so... well just look at the defending comments 💀
"oh no! people like the Pokémon that I dislike! this must be the "gamefreak company bootlickers" doing because they have different tastes than me!"
Don't agree with you at all. But that's what's fun about opinions. Everyone has them.
Half new pokemon look awkward and or doesn’t deliver on evos.
Like skovilian is meh design with outstanding concept as well as palaphin. They just dont stand up even to gen 8 standarts.
Personally I don’t like tinkaton, its too generic in concept and too stylized at the same time. Like we just had a pink imp last gen and this one is just that but smaller and clumsier. It s just a looney tunes hit it with a hammer joke.
@@ilyatepeyolotich6459 best Pokémon in gen 8 are draqopult and Corviknight that really it the rest is filler I like the gen 9 mons more than gen 8
@@yarc9 well to each their own. I feel like gen made big leap in terms of generalized pokemon designs, with stuff like wattrel finizen flamigo tatsugiri etc looking more cartoony. I think I just not a fan of over characterized monster designs.
While I saw the new designs of this generation, I thought they were a bit unusual, but after thinking about it, it seems to me that it is a brilliant metaphor of past and future taken to another level, there are pokemon like pawmi that have few changes in their evolutions as well as old pokemon like cyndaquill, tandemaus, that adds more mice when it evolves, it is similar to families like doduo, and on the other side, maybe there are some pokemon that show us the future plans of gamefreak regarding the concept of the new pokemon, or even they want to make pokemon with this kind of balance, after thinking about it, the ninth generation has become one of my favorite pokemon, and the truth I have no problem with having pokemon with this kind of design, and I think that making pokemon of all kinds is part of the charm of pokemon.
(P.S.: heck, see the minature hurts me, pawmot is my favorite pokemon of the generation, and tinkaton one of my least favorite ones XD)
Tinkaton does NOT look like a PKMN... nor do the rest of your "top 5". And specially NOT Wo-Chien, whose design simply stinks.
This is and will ALWAYS be a subjective topic.
Kind of shocked that Garganacl is your favorite given the criticisms you had for other Pokemon in this video. But good video still
I’ll say that I have a soft spot for Revavroom, as it was the first shiny that I had gotten in Violet
I certainly had multiple experiences playing Pokémon violet and catching a Pokémon and being really excited to see what it evolved into and then being really disappointed and sad that I evolved it because now that Pokémon that I got attached to is really underwhelming and not quite interesting. That kinda got to the point that I was hesitant to evolve my normal team and I just got a double to see if it was worth it.
Next time I play this game, I'm definitely going to have some not-fully-evolved Pokémon on team rotation. I'd love to give Arctibax a try without evolving it.
Commenting for the engagement. I love nearly all designs and concepts this generation. We don't see eye to eye and that's ok! Have a good day!
I like Tinkaton's design but I feel like it's proportions aren't particularly appealing. Its hands I think are fine, but end up looking kind of like stitched on features. It's feet are an awkward shape when placed in relation to its body and I don't think they produce the greatest silhouette. Those two weird things it has sticking out of its belly also feel like design features that only exist to make up for the empty space that its torso leaves due to its overall simplicity and the hammer feels incredibly overly designed to the point where I don't think it really fits in Pokémon. I don't really care for pokemon wielding weapons or looking like they could be a playable fantasy race due to humanoid proportions, but I'd be less bothered by a hammer that didn't look like it came from a different game franchise entirely.
I really like the concept of tinkaton, but the execution leaves much to be desired by me.
I'd say I'm neutral about most of the designs, to the point where the only pokemon i remember having in my team before getting to post-game are Lokix and Skeledirge. Very few of the non-paradox or non ruinous treasures really stand out or caught my eye that much, which honestly is kinda sad. I hope they add more new pokemon aside from legendaries in the DLC to see if there's anything that really sticks with me other than Funny Cricket, Short Girl Rage, Silly Fuzzy Moth or Mammalian-esque Reptile
I think the bigger issue is how horridly awful every single shiny is, like dear god what were the designers smoking!
Nossa como eu tinha odiado o quaquaval no começo, ele é tão estereótipo de Brasil, e de um dos elementos do Brasil que eu menos gosto, mas as animações dele se movendo são tão engraçados que eu comecei a gostar, o fato de terem feito um vídeo comparando o quaquaval ao Miror B. Também ajudaram a mudar minha perspectiva
Acho que não vi esse vídeo com a Mirror B, mas eu também não gosto mutio do Mirror B. E não gosto de carnaval, nem o de rua nem o da Sapucaí. Até gosto do design do Quaquaval mas a dança é demais pra mim.
Brasileiros são as únicas pessoas que ficam choramingando na internet por serem retratadas de maneira esteriotipada kkkkk, clbc mlk vai dormir, tenho até vergonha.
I love the Pawmot line for what it does.
It feels like a deliberate answer to the age old Pikachu dilemma of all the Ashketchumfrompallettowns that hesitate to evolve their Pikachu to avoid its personality changing too much.
If there's a chance we can get a similar treatment on Emolga or Pachirisu, sign me the fuck up.
What's the problem with people hesitating to evolve? If anything there should be more ways to make the not-fully-evolved ones more viable for in-game use, like how Scyther and both of its evolutions have the same base stat total. Some kind of surprising, unexpected element is key for a satisfying Pokémon evolution.
@@UmbreonLibris it's not that the hesitation is the problem. It's that this offers the option of getting the benefits of evolution without drastic changes of the pokemon design.
I think it's a fitting "twist" for a certain niche of Pokemon.
@@AdeptCharon Ultra Necrozma Is STRONGER & BETTER Than Arceus ! 💪🏽😎
Honestly this line would have been fine if it was 2 stages Pawmo is literally Pawmi but it stood up that’s not an evolution it’s a waste of dex slot
@@nazeersadek6705 there is no such thing as a waste of a dexslot. Pawmo didn't rob us of some other Pokemon just by existing >:I
It's total valid that you dislike a lot of the designs (there are many that I dislike), but I do think disliking the Pokémon that don't look Pokémon-y enough is sorta a flawed criticism - I think it's great when Pokémon goes in a different direction with their designs and I think each generation can be seen as having a slightly different style that makes the Pokémon unique and varied - it's not fundamentally bad for Pokémon to explore different styles. Also, on Toedscool - I think it's design and incorporation is great. It was such a great moment when I saw its silhouette on the minimap nowhere near water and just double-taking wondering what was going on only to eventually see this weird dude sprinting around. I have such a great memory of encountering it that it made me like the design. Similarly with Tandemaus - I was healing my Pokémon and then did a double take when I realised my mice had multiplied, it was funny and made me like the design. Also I think the starters are the best trio since gen 4 and I love my fancy duck.
Out of curiosity, how did you not notice that Tandemaus had evolved?
@@UmbreonLibris Tandemaus' gimmick is that it evolves without the evolution animation if it levels up while not being the active Pokémon
@@jeffthesquirrel9949 Huh. Mine evolved in front of me so I had no idea it could evolve quietly. That is neat
There really is like 3 or 4 lines that feel lazy, one of which is Tinkaton, so it feels hypocritical that it’s in your top. Cause other than that there’s Bramblin, Pawmo, Tandemaus… and that’s kind of it, nothing else feels lazy or boring, aside from a bunch of the future forms. This just feels like Gen 5 all over again, where people focus on like two subpar Pokémon and shit on the whole gen’s designs because of it, completely ignoring plenty of gems.
Ah, but you see, smol gorl that gets bigger weapon every time with very minimal changes to her base design is good because it's funny and charming I guess (I literally don't care about the hammer and the pokemon is not cute to me other so it's just completely not my taste)
I already agree with the start. While I'm certain what pokemon we that do and don't work for us will differ, this dex as a whole feels so much weaker. See I've had more time to chew on this since I actually followed and sought out the leaks. So when images of the whole dex leaked, I rushed to take screenshots of everything so I could take it all in. I was underwhelmed. So playing the game I've kinda had to discover how to enjoyably play it cuz it wasn't working for me the first run thru (well that and the glaring visual and technical problems) so I straight up restarted my game and tried again. The mons I like I'm very comfortable about, but the mons I'm not crazy about I usually at least think are cool or ok, i legit dislike to hate more of these than most dexes.
Later on in vid:
Phew ok we agree on starters more or less I like quaxly's line a bit more still consensus so long as the starters are not the bad mons and missed opportunities we're talking about lol
Disagree with orthworm and tatsugiri not fitting but strong agree with everything else so far. I can't tell if the in game art style being tweaked might have helped with this. I think of all the examples you listed glimmet and glimmora fit in pokemon most as they look alot like another existent pokemon line we have: lileep and cradily. To me I see these as very similar, so unless you also feel this way about lileep and cradily I think making that familial connection makes glimmet and glimmora make more sense and perhaps alter your perception slightly. I mean you like them already but maybe seeing them as ancient as opposed to alien might make them fit in the world better.
Yeah even as a flamigo stan I would still love to see it evolve badly. Regardless of whether or not statwise it truly requires it or not
I dont think the dud joke would have ever been funny. They kept the fandom waiting too long just to give us that.
So far I agree ALOT with your opinions.
Welp I know how i'm spending the rest of my night. Imma rate em all.
The only personal dud of mine that makd it into your top 5 is garganacl. You're right about it being better than naclstack. But the minecraft elements of naclstack ruined it for me SO hard that I still dont like the line associated with it.
OMG yes about the paradox mons, designs, and lack of presence. Although I finally found a mon I disagree with you on entirely. I do not like walking wake at all. That's the one and only paradox disagreement
Hmm my top 5..well in no particular order: meowscarada family, quaquaval family, the clodsire line, flamigo (i like how it is already and it animations too much not to love it regardless and hope it gets a family later), and houndstone line. The appeal of the rest of my list you already touched on, so ill talk about houndstone. I loved greavard from the beginning, every little design element and the exaggerated proportions I adored. Houndstone takes a far darker approach visually than alot of past pokemon designs have, but executes full on skeleton dog in a way that is more like a charming elderly dog than something scary. It also gives me vibes of the old skeleton from the corpse bride and the mystics from dark crystal. Now I'm saying it reminds me CHARACTER wise of those things not actually stylistically. So I feel like I know its character so well just from looking at it and that combined with its theming that I adore draws me in. I do like alot of other but I don't feel that immediate adoration and think if I compare them to other pokemon I love they may not hit the same. Until I play a few more runs I can't tell what else I genuinely love vs what I just like by comparison.
Why do you want the Pokemon that is all about carnivals to not dance all the time? It's super fitting, fun and makes perfect sense. I believe Skeledirge is boxy to make it look more instrumental which also is an important and central part of its inspiration.
I can agree that a lot of future paradox forms add nothing new, but I think grouping in Iron Bundle with those is just wrong.
Overall a lot of good points that I don't agree with, going to do that pokemon rating thing, really cool idea.
I'm a Brazilian who does not like Carnaval. I find Quaquaval's dancing distracting and obnoxious, just like much of Carnaval. Just because it makes sense conceptually, doesn't mean I have to like it.
Being inspired on something doesnt make people like it lol. Every pokemon has an inspiration and i dont think most people like every pokemon
@@UmbreonLibris There's a difference between you having your opinion and trying to convince everyone that the pokemon designs are objectively bad. If you are trying to explain your opinion and even going to the comment section discussing with people about it, it isn't an opinion anymorr, you just trying to prove a point by arguing
Voltorb, Execute, Muk, Dewgong are such cool designs!
Ah yes the same tired "Ur a gEnWunNer, Gen 1 bad," argument whenever someone dares to have a different opinion and doesn't worship every new pokemon gamefreak s**ts out.
@@meep5386 I'm not saying that you can't have an opinion. I'm saying that the people often see gen 1 as impossible to be bad
What do you mean by starter in a long time that doesnt feel humanoid
Are Gorillas human now?
I absolutely love the pawmi evolution line. The pokemon is just SO CUTE
These were really the first games i went into mostly blind apart from what was in the trailers. what i expected my team to be was entirely different to what it did become (except cetitan i love cetitan cetitansquadforever). by the time i got to late game i stil had a slot for a last team member cause i like keeping things as a 6 that i slowly get over my journey like in the cartoon (which is a mindset i wanna try get rid of in the future). when i saw espathra i immediately loved it but i thought this late in the journey i wouldnt get too attatched cause it was so close to being over. even the same with wo-chien but that was after the game was over but as someone that spends alot of time into exploring everything even after the main story i've had so many memorable experiences after it with completing the dex or shiny hunting or fighting in competitive. i still havent even properly trained all of the new pokemon and i plan to use more on a new playthrough and create more memories even after my initial memories and thoughts about them. i dont think its ever too late to grow attatched to a pokemon or design and i've still got enjoyment from the ones i think are bad or unnecassery. still it was fun to hear different opinions. i hope the video does well
I've not played the games, but I like quite a few of the designs you don't. I will say though that wugtrio is a huge step down from wiglett, for the simple reason that the face of wiglett is on the top like you'd expect of an eel, but wugtrio loses that single extra bit of uniqueness from dugtrio.
Definitely agree on the ancient paradox pokemon part. Some of the future ones do look sleek and cool and I find their implications interesting. Maybe pokemon went extinct and humans made robot versions of them? Pokemon became less and less organic overtime? but I still tend to be more drawn to the ancient ones since I think there can be more done with it (even if that is idk same thing but more hairy lol).
Man I love toedscool/toedscruel AND Sandy Shocks! The toed line are such goofy little guys, the way the move and their personality is super charming, though I do think the shiny toedscool has a better colour pallet. The white evokes a shy mushroom better, though they also could have gone with a richer- more mushroomy- brown on the base form and that might have worked too. I thought they were a great take on a regional form, which is what the convergent evolutions are lets be honest here, on par with the Alolan forms at least.
As for sandy shocks I still haven't found one in game yet, but I also find him a super endearing goofy leggy guy. He's got a mouth and legs which are crazy but silly and fun, and the wildness really comes through in the design of the "hair". The fan theory that he might be partially inspired by fresno night walkers also makes me like it. I think still being so clearly made out of screws and modern magnets is a little odd conceptually, but it doesn't make me like it less. And the shiny is gorgeous, chef's kiss.
I love Pawmot because it looks like me and has the same energy, plus the type was cool
I like Meowscarada's shape a lot, but its colour scheme is too washed out..
2:02 I forget that you speak Portuguese, I was surprised by your pronunciation
“It doesn’t look like a pokemon.”
So… they’re trying something new?
I think the humanoid designs in Pokémon are cool the animalistic design just basic in comparison they don’t really look that interesting ratata is a rat that lame machamp is cooler indeedee is cool I prefer moushold over ratata
Yeah this is the worst generation design wise. I only really like the paradox pokemon, convergent/regional variants, and the starters. Except I only like Sprigatito and quaxly, floragato is pretty good as a middle evolution. I hate everything after quaxly and I only love Skeledirge out of the whole line. The first and second forms are kinda funny but they're body shape is extremely bizzare to me. At least the gameplay was actually fun for the first time.
Tho I will absolutely fight you on toedscool and Skeledirge. They're perfect creatures. I love toedscool silly wacky run and it brings me so much joy to watch. And Skeledirge is the best fire starter flat out. Theres so much going into the design that's culturally tied to Mexico and it's just extremely cool. Plus the integration of the bird is very well done. I love how it has 2 instruments that are part of its body. I love how the bird becomes skeledirges microphone. I love the skull pattern on the face, it just reminds me of a church with the stained glass look and the small touch of purple is just 👌🏼👌🏼👌🏼 mmMMMHH. And just, finally. FINALLY a pokeMON not a pokeman. I swear every fire starter has been making me uncomfortable after typhlosion. Those are just a bunch of furries let them go live their lives but like. Charizard, typhlosion and Skeledirge are genuine creatures and they're great for that. I dont even like charizard that much but at least I dont feel weird keeping it as a pokemon. Also like can we talk about Skeledirge's cry? I sounds like a car. This mf is the hearse that it's going go put you in.
And it's good because crocodile :) I loev crocodile
Also I don’t like the “it doesn’t look like a Pokémon” criticism personally in my opinion there really shouldn’t be a limit to what a Pokémon should look like that limits creativity. pokemon are monsters there are no limits to what a monster should look like. Also in my opinion I don’t mind humanoid starters they grow with you from a simple personality to a more complete creature like you and they own their concepts no longer are the boring starter trio of gen 1-3 and while i like the gen 3 starters well 2 of em (hate blasiken) starter Pokémon feel more inspired and you can sort of pick your aesthetic, such as with my favorite Pokémon inteleon starter Pokémon aren’t your normal every day animal Pokémon again they are like you they have Been given to each trainer starting their journey they grow close to humans thus they look more human anyway that’s my jibberish
There is no limit to what a Pokémon can be, but Pokémon has an established design language, a certain aesthetic that helps us look at a new creature and see a Pokémon. I'm sure you'll agree that, for example, Digimon generally don't look like Pokémon, right? They have a completely different approach to creature design. When I look at a Pokémon like Dondozo, I don't see a Pokémon, I see Jabun from The Legend of Zelda. And this aesthetic is largely established by precedent, so maybe with a few more years some of these will look less dissonant, but for now, they don't work for me.
“pokémons are monsters”
so what about monster hunter’s (animalistic/non-human) monsters?..
@@joshuagonzalez4183 Pokémon stands for pocket monster
Monsters and monster hunter are monsters cause like I said a monster could be anything
@@UmbreonLibris to be fair, anyone back in the day would have said that pokemon like- spiritomb, for example, "dont look like pokemon" because nothing before it looked the way it did. but now, we can appreciate the refreshing design that spiritomb was and is. what i mean is, pokemon DOES have a design language, but it is, and always has been, ever changing.
oh and also, ratio
Personally, I feel like the pet that I keep in my ball shouldn't look like it could be sitting in my classroom as an exchange student from a fantasy setting with weird fantasy races. Like the closer to human a pokemon looks and feels, the stranger it is that I treat the thing like a pet and the more uncanny it becomes that such creatures are expected to be viewed the same general way as the sentient plants and fish.
And also limitations breed creativity. Creativity isn't limited by what you are and aren't allowed to do, it's limited by your ability to work within the boundaries that are set for you. As long as the limits aren't too restricting, then yes there are certain ways that a pokemon should and shouldn't look for the sake of design consistency and cohesion of setting. The further we go outside the bounds of what's generally understood to be a pokemon design wise, the less meaning the concept of a pokemon will have. If we reach the point where pokemon can look like anything such that dragon quest or final fantasy monsters could pass for pokemon, then the franchise will lose a strong part of its identity, which are its unique designs that can be distinguished from other fantasy settings. A line needs to be drawn somewhere, even if we push the bounds of that line from time to time.
You’re correct most of it of it is mostly merchandise yes
Never disagreed with ya more!
Yeah this is one my lowest gens in terms of pokemon designs. I still dislike gen 8 more and maybe gen 6(if we coubt mega evos 6 is better but just the kalos pokemon alone are kinda weak.) But besides that paldea is on the weaker end. Its the 4th gen in a row that i really dont like any of the starters that much
I definitely agree on most regards, though I never really gave myself the chance to come across the new pokemon designs naturally, as much as I wish I had. Watching the trailers and keeping up with the news, I personally saw that Scarlet and Violet were making many of the same mistakes of Sw/Sh, with few improvements, not enough to excite me.
It's really sad for me to see - Pokemon is a lifelong favorite franchise to me, and I see so much potential, but I haven't been convinced to buy a game since Sun/Moon due to the drop in overall quality in many regards. I want nothing more than to feel the excitement of each new generation again, but I feel like it's hard to trust in the quality now.
I should point out, as it's relevant to the video: The appeal and connection to each and every pokemon design is one of the most unique things to me and the biggest reason I love the franchise so much. I feel like past/future forms and convergent evolution are great ideas in theory, but they were executed awfully and could've been so much better. I really need creatures that feel like CREATURES, and not Characters.
I know what you mean but I gave legends Arcues a chance and it was the most fun I had playing Pokémon games you just have to play it with the mentality of screw the graphics I’m here for the gameplay