A NEED FOR DUPLICATE AND REDUNDANT SHIPS? | STAR CITIZEN
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- Опубліковано 13 лип 2024
- Algared and Execute discuss their thoughts on ships of the same gameplay type and are they made redundant by others?
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Sorry you arent feeling well Algared hope you feel beter soon!
does he have cancer or something.
feel sorry you dont feel so good.
Wish you a very fast Recovery Algared. ❣
I hope you feel better soon Algared! Seems like you have been sick for a while. The community appreciates you!
Thunderbirds what a throwback! I think we can all agree TB2 was always the coolest. It’s what I like about the deployable modules in the Carrack.
I don’t think any ships are redundant or useless. I think player choice is super important.
Thank you for providing content which opens the door for constructive conversations
There are players with all ranges of budgets for time they can spend on a game and the money they can spend on a game. For every variation the recommendation should be different. Therefore imho, there are no redundant or unnecessary vehicles.
I completely understand, and agree with, the mantra of “It’s quicker to earn down than up”. However everyone has a ceiling they should respect. It’s touched on briefly here, but I think a lot more advocacy can be made for advising pledgers to find their jam in a solo quantum vehicle and crewing other peoples ships to earn in-game whatever they want to do later.
Execute has said on numerous occasions to get a starter ship and find friends with the bigger fleets, but if ur gonna drop quite a bit of money into the game, it doesn't make sense to have several small ships when the cost for them would b equivalent to a larger ship.
Yeah im feeling like a broken record at this point 🤣. Exe
Yeah, great points voodoo. I also agree with the "quicker to earn down" mantra, but I always put an asterix on the end of that statement for budget (as you mentioned) and the size of a group a player would like to engage with. I think whether or not a player is interested in org play versus playing in a smaller group is important because it seems like it will be harder to support larger ships. A player might be better off with an Arrastra over an Orion (for example) since it may not need the same level of protection the latter will probably require if you want to take it to a riskier area.
@@JL-rj9fl This is where the 2013 blog (still on the website) provides a possible solution. If the developers achieve it, CRs vision is to allow friends to “possess” extra digital downloads that you are using as crew on your vehicle.
My issue with the Org/friends solution to crewing is; will people be willing to play what I want to play whenever I want to play it? My starting chains with starter packs instead of LTI tokens, I hope to have the flexibility to have separate captains for each vehicle or self crew, with personal NPCs that others can control when they want. The huge question is what will be the character cap per account.
I fully expect that character slots (digital downloads) will be ‘sold’ on their own, but given SQ42 bundled price of $20 and standalone price of $45, I believe LTI advocates are not accounting for this as it can effect peoples pledge budgets.
@@jvoodoochild2755 Yeah, I picked up a few starter packs w/LTI a while back based on one of your posts you made that reminded me of that article. I love the idea of customizable NPCs, and the possibility of having someone take over one of them would be extremely useful. Had I remembered that article earlier, I would have made more chains with LTI starter packs instead of regular LTI tokens. I did manage to accumulate enough to crew my Odyssey, and I'm really happy about that.
Wishing you the best Algared; feel better soon!
Do what ever doc says and get a speedy recovery Algared 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏❤️❤️❤️❤️💐💐
redundancy is important for me, have some variety, styles and preferences. Makes the whole career path less linear and more interesting
The biggest headache I have about future Star Citizen gameplay is logistics.
Nice to have multiple ships for the different roles like mining, combat, cargo and capabilities etc.
The gameplay loops will be for multiplayer and solo and having ships who can do both is not crazy at all.
It can happen that you park a ship somewhere else like in another system.
Now logistics to retrieve or even get the ship will take time and cost UEC.
Also you will probably switch gameplay from mining to combat to cargo all with your friends and switch to solo and back again and you will probably see multiple systems.
So your assets will be all over multiple systems and planetary bodies and space stations.
Many in the IR community disagree, however it was introduced in detail back in 2013 the advantages of extra game packages (digital downloads). Among other advantages, each chain can have its own captain and operate where that vehicle specializes instead of the in-game cost of time and UEC to move back and forth from a common point every time you want to switch roles
As Exe states in this video, ‘when info is limited, it’s all we have to go by’ to speculate conditions at launch and what do we want to pledge for. Another IR mantra to keep in mind is “Always have an exit plan”
Yeah Exit plan is always smart. Exe
So much of the SC ships come down to aesthetic and taste by design. I could see a Drake mining ship the size of a Prospector being a draw not because it's better, but just because people like the feel of Drake better than MISC. That said, I think it depends on the loop, too. I'm not sure medical really needs to fill all the gaps, for example, and I don't think every manufacturer would need one in their lineup, whereas combat is the other end of the spectrum, apparently, and is filled with redundant ships. Feel better, Al!
15:46
Little Jimmy then comes to work for me hauling cargo for a couple days... then buys a pair of C2s for himself.
Hope you feel better soon Algared. Best wishes to you.
When I have only a couple hours to play, I'll take out the vulture. I'll do some salvage panels or do a contract and sell the goods.
With the reclaimer I feel like I need to spend a lot more time and effort getting up and running. It's not worth the effort sometimes, especially when the servers are acting poorly.
I enjoy using the retaliator for bounties but this is another ship that suffers from server related issues. It can be great sinking a ship with one torpedo but it can be a time suck when nothing is hitting.
I know that, in this alpha state, these are hypothetically temporary problems, but right now it doesn't hurt to have redundancy to be able to pivot to different game loops when one is broken.
Right now my fleet is set up for bounty hunting, trade and salvage. I have something for each tier for that reason. If the retaliator is broken or doesn't have the manpower, I can bring out a Zeus... If I'm wanting salvage I have options.
Yes, they are cheap to buy in game, but this wipe has shown the idea that the vulture can make several small runs in a short time, vs the reclaimer that is one invisible asteroid away from losing hours or days of work
Part of the problem is outfitting the ship. Multi tools armor guns food water they are need on the ship to do the "gameplay" with the ship. Just like refule rearm repair. You can get delivery to your garage today?
I have several ships for each gameplay loop because many ships will stop working but the gameplay loop still functions for another.
I have a few duplicates, but mostly similar size/role so I can leave a few in each system I like to always have what I need at hand. The big ones I'll move when I need to, but the smaller ones can stay close to base.
Yeah, personal choice Vs value according to your budget 👍
@Algared, get well and rest up buddy!
@Execute, what you mentioned at the 10-minute mark about your favorite ship really struck a chord with me! It's probably the best advice I've heard from a channel in quite some time!
How far away are AI Blades/NPCs, you ask? Well, as a side note, I enjoy playing with others too. It seems everyone wants to be the captain or pilot, which is great because there are plenty of people who are happy to take on support roles, man the turrets, or fly alongside in their own ships. Sure, there are pirates, but there are also genuine players. Sometimes, I feel new players aren't always welcomed by the veterans, but that's just a small rant.
I also believe that when the game is released, if high-profit missions or certain areas are locked behind reputation barriers, it could pose a problem for earning down. I'd prefer to earn down in-game, especially for ships I don't want to buy with real money, but rather acquire through gameplay.
Thanks for the well wishes and for the superchat
CIG have said in the arrastra QA that the orion refinery is much much larger than arrastra
I really am hoping to hear some positive news about NPC crews. I have a big ship or two that I'll need them for. If it won't be feasible, I gotta rearrange my fleet. So... godspeed, devs! 🤞😬 Get well soon, Algared! Great stuff, gents!
I like the thumbnail.
When I hear "duplicate and redundant" ships i think:
Combat ships being swapped when one is in repair or out right destroyed. Flexibility in up sizing or downsizing crews. Change in fleet composition or size to match the mission. Ships or modules based in different systems etc
Depending on size they are easy to earn, and you can earn sideways. Exe
@@inforunners I saw the video and enjoyed it. I was just expecting more discussion on scenarios. And I get why this video catered to a solo pov I was expecting this video to be multi-crew/org oriented
@@Qbertqueso Yeah went a bit short to as Algared wasnt feeling the best and Im trying to put his well being first atm. He really does need to rest. Exe
@@inforunnershow could I forget. hope he feels better!
Get well soon Old Man Hurston!
Stay well, Algared.
Redundancy is not only needed….. it’s VITAL to the game!
Personally choice is a very human thing. If I want a Toyota over a Ram or a Ford pickup that’s what I want. They do the same thing, but I want the choice. And I want that in every aspect of the game. That’s why all these ships are so awesome! And a big part of why people like the game.
For me what makes something a duplicate or redundant is when you have two or more ships do the same exact thing. Some examples of what I mean are the liberator vs the Ironclad Assault and the Apollo vs the Galaxy. The Galaxy makes the Apollo redundant because the Galaxy has more beds and a rover. As for the Liberator vs the Ironclad Assault, the Ironclad Assault is a freighter but it can carry four tanks plus two vehicles in its' repair bay, the Liberator can only carry five vehicles and no repair bay.
yes i have small and large ships for my own benefit and also for the players i regular play with :) jon_citizen
Thought you did!
Positive thoughts for your good health, Algared. Now to modularity. I remember the original INFORUNNER (but don't remember his name) saying everything will be modular; you'll be able to convert your Cutty Black to a Blue, and vice-versa. You'll be able to change your Connie __ to a Connie Phoenix. I asked myself, "HOW do you know this?" "WHY do you assume this?" All these years later, I still want to remove the prisoner "pods" fm my Cutty Blue, make it a super-Cutty Black. But I can't. We can't even switch 600i Touring to the Exploration or back. Why can't we buy a module for this? No module, just an expensive CCU upgrade, which is permanent! Carrack will one day have drones, and already has "pods," but neither are functional. Caterpillar is supposed to be the Swiss Army Knife (or Leatherman) of Star Citizen, but CIG hasn't delivered - too busy cranking out new ships (which will have the same issues). Heck, CIG just created a new/better Drake ship to replace the CAT!?! Even if SQ42 comes out at end of this yr, or 2025, I hv to assume it won't have any of these ships (with their non-working functionality). It's just gonna be fighters, and some carriers to carry the fighters.
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Feel better Al!
A living breathing world has redundant ships.
The only ships I see unnecessary redundancy in are fighters. The combat meta is unique in that unlike other professions there are not facets where one combat ship (fighters specifically) is good in one situation over another. It's why we don't see many gladiators.
I would argue as a combat pilot myself, mixed wings will be the norm. gladiuses and other light fighters / interceptors to harass while the med and heavy fighters "tank". I can outfly a F8C with my gladius but if I mess up, i'm dead, and that is just one v one. Now, figure each group has two players and the F8C can't ignore the hornet, but the gladiator can't ignore the F8c's wingman either, so it becomes a maneuver fight and a teamwork fight. As each group gets bigger, this only exacerbates the fights and the more coordinated with different types of ships for different situations during that fight will be the deciding factor.
The Mole has literally been made redundant by the Arrastra. For the same crew you get 512 scu & refineries. For me it's all about crew numbers. The Mole needs to have more scu and at least the Co-Pilot being able to use a Laser - or be able to switch between them. That's what the Arrastra now has.
algared cant take all that fame everyday he goes out wearing his drip
I find the suggestion to focus ones gameplay around something like blades and NPCs that are not even in development a non starter and inappropriate. Just to push backers to buy larger more expensive ships that are also only concepts and not in active development.
The nature of crowd support is to pledge in advance of development. Like all of us, we are trying to imagine how things will be at launch and pledge for items that we think we will enjoy.
Info Runners does a great job of keeping up with and assimilating potential ramifications to give advice. It’s the viewers choice to determine if that advice is appropriate for them.
@@jvoodoochild2755 And represents a bad investment if the paid for resource, item or service is not provided within one's lifetime.
To advise others to make such poor choices is as I said I appropriate.
It's unrealistic that companies wouldn't compete. How many pickup trucks are there on the market today? I hope Aegis creates a variant of the Reclaimer to be an exploration ship to compete with the Carrack. Probably never happen, bit would be a "take my money" moment for any fans of the Alien franchise... to have a Prometheus with a Nostromo interior. Opportunity to print money for CIG. We need lots of variety/variants.
Assuming everyone can deploy their Large to Cap ships on day one of launch.....
In my mind, there are no redundant ships. There are ones that may give more value or be more desirable, but they all have their own purpose.
Arrastra has VTOL, and the ability to carry ROCs, so being able to do every mining loop is a very good value. In my mind, I could skip the Mole in this case, and go Prospector -> Arrastra -> Orion (only for the biggest space rocks). Not to say the Mole is useless, but the Arrastra crew requirement isn't too much more. Pricing could be the balancing factor between those two, so hopefully they don't end up at a similar price point in-game.
Im not playing by any rules. I get what i like and hope for the best. But, i am orientated toward crucible for not only maintenance but modification through mining and science. All speculation because none of what i hope for exists and not necessarily planned.
Until we have working npcs amd blades, i would think these big ships are only viable with friends. Still no indication that npcs and blades are requirement foe the game to go to 1.0
We have 4 Polaris and doubles of a few other ships . Really don't want a Idris or Javelin .Bigger isn't always better .
well, I think the economy is going to have large changes by the time we get 1.0. we now live in an easy money verse that we think "Yeah, I can take my aurora and earn a titan in 2 or 3 hours. or I can take my eclipse and earn a Connie in an hour or two.... I think the larger ships are going to cost a fortune to run. and if that is all you have, along with your 5,000 spesos. you might find it hard to keep it fueled. much less 'earn the big bucks" in the early game. that is why my fleet is largely stepping stones: increasing capacity Cargo ships so as I have money for larger and larger cargoes. I have the ships to put them in. and I plan to have 300k spesos starting cash.
good luck with that monster top end ship and 5,000 spesos. when it costs 10,000 an hour to operate.
but maybe I'm wrong.
I completely agree with the point that the economy is super changed in Alpha, but whatever the multipliers are can be considered to validate “Quicker to earn down than up”. Of course the longer the grind the more the impact of costs/hr, but I speculate the prince still holds true.
As far starting cash, it’s a great point that more should consider, maybe not for one’s large vehicles, but for their Daily Driver
I really dont think earn down will be as viable as you guys always say because of the added large ship costs that are not in the game yet, nore the current economy really existing. I really dont see millions in profit in a single mission when you pay crew, npcs, supplies, repairs ect. Its probably going to be a bit faster to get a small ship than going too a large ship, but even with economys of scale, it costs a lot too make money, we may not have enough to run a large ship off the bat too. With how cig has talked about npcs, i dont think there will be enough to staff every ship. Its much better to work on a large ship than too own one imo.
Then how do you encourage people to even want bigger ships? You logic doesnt make sense. They have also said you will be able to use ships you own from the get go. Exe
@@inforunnersi think they will be more profit per hour if run by a compit player crew, meaning you will need too pay more. I also remember cig saying that the better the npcs "stats" are the more they cost. I just forsee margins being much thinner, yea you for say make 300k in an orian when a prospector makes 100k, so time for time you do earn more, bit if they want the economy to work i cant see everyone making 5 mil a run in the orian while that prospector makes 100k. Mind you iv spent over 2k myself though im combat orentated lol. All my ships i expect too be a money drain edit: i suck at typimg on my phone lmao.
@@inforunnersas for the use ships from get go, yes you can if you have an all player crew sure, but hell my account only has some 60k uec, thats not gonna hire more than one crew without riskin goin in the red if i do somthin stupid lol. Npcs that are "bad" will be cheaper but who knows if those will be worth, or the timeframe for them tok grow into good npcs. Plus mission found npcs you cant just hire from the jobs bord.
@@inforunners I'm on my PC now lol, tempt to re-write my other replies but I think they come across well enough even with the typos...
My main idea is think Walmart. Yes they make a ton of money, with a ton of input, but their profit is quite low in reality. I see the large ships like Walmart, the Orion is going to vacuum up an entire asteroid, process it and spit it out. while the prospector and mole are going to search for the cream of the crop. Shoot from what I understand, if you do ROC mining and really find what the best gems are (hadinite? idk I don't mine really tbh even though I do have a prospector) you can make more per hour with that car than the prospector.
that said I could be completely wrong, I just don't know if banking on earning down is truly the best strat to be honest.
i was about to disagree with yous for once at first until exe said from a value perspective and started talking about buying outside of the game. I went into this video thinking yous where talking about ships being redundant and pointless in game as in a waste in game dev time and resources to add to the game.
hey Execute, totally random, but has anyone told you that you look like Svein from Vikings aka David Pearse?