The pool of players that want live service isn’t growing. It’s a static pool everyone is competing for. They get initial interest and then everyone goes back to the established juggernauts.
I feel another big problem is player time management. The fact there are so many great & shorter games out there, a live service can feel like a time suck in comparison. "Seasonal" updates arent usually compelling enough to compete with that.
Live Service games always felt like "Trend Chasing" the video game genre of this generation. It feels like the "Vast Open World" style of games felt like around the time of Skyrim got popular.
When live service fails it's typically a spectacle. When a random rogue fails it doesn't make a lot of noise. Live service games have to be big almost by definition.
GaaS and SaaS share similar issues. Everyone saw Netflix making bank and thought “hey we can do that” without considering how to actually get and retain users/viewers. Most people don’t want to pay for 12 different services, so they pick a few and stay on those. Games are the same, whether it’s time cost or dollar cost, gamers can’t afford to play every live service game, so they pick a few and stay on those.
I think live services can be great. But I think development companies and publishers haven't fully been able to grapple with the effort and funding needed to make it succeed. Until they do, or until they catch lightning in a bottle. I don't think we will see many successful games coming to market.
I am def 100% not a live service guy and I think a lot of the people who are have already found their game they are invested in with their time and money so it’s hard to find customers for new live service games!
“One of the primary reasons live service games fail is a lack of longevity. Developers often overestimate how long content will keep players engaged. If there isn't a consistent flow of new and exciting content, player interest can wane quickly. Take, for example, games that promise grand expansions but deliver underwhelming results.”
Ya i feel like the arc raiders devs just basically killed their own game by adding pvp unless they give you the option to play one or the other great video man keep up the good work
I was cautiously optimistic about Arc Raiders, but I'd forgotten about the original trailer, and compared to the new one...ehh...I'm not so optimistic anymore 😢
I always imagined the last of us online, similar to cods dmz mode, which i loved. Big open map, several biomes, materials and loot to scavenge, npc bases to raid for good loot, other players to fight off and of course hundreds of infected. U go in, pick up stuff, base materials, weapon and gear parts, medical supplies. Maybe break into an npc stronghold base, or an infected nest, for the really good loot. Then exfil the map from one of several points. U keep wat u exfil with.
More live service failures is not surprising in the least. Every new live service game, be they PvE or PvP, not only has to contend within their own genre, they have to entice people away from their current live service. Even uniqueness isn’t enough, they’re still fighting over the power Fortnite and Warzone have on players.
Yeah but here’s another problem like you address nobody is interested in live service games. You have suicide squad that had bad gameplay,bad story,bad lore,lack of source material,not knowing the characters very well and their origin stories,their powers,abilities and didn’t give you the option to save the justice league and gave better material for Kevin Conroy the voice of Bruce Wayne aka Batman & Arleen sorkin who did Harley Quinn’s voice and role well for Harley Quinn for suicide squad to succeed. Concord was a different story cause of it wasn’t an asked for game,The trailer of concord was misleading, didn’t have a story too mode too it. The fact of it being live service instead of being like other games that had a story mode/ campaign mode to follow the story,lore of concord instead it was given a live service treatment. The division is a different story cause it had a good story mode to it that everyone cared for but the other problem is their were game issues that game had . Anthem had major game issues where it bricked your system to not be used but had good features too it and possibly a good story mode that it may had. Companies need to listen to not only the feed back , but they also need to listen to customers and gamers to fix the problems of live service games where they need a story mode, lore,good characters and more. Also the other problem is people aren’t interested in live service games they want games like god of war, armored core, stellar blade,black myth wukong, palworld, hades, Elden ring, warhammer cause players&customers want good story,good lore,good,immersion,good escapism and more than a live service game that doesn’t do much for the gamer.
Everyone wants to chase the successful live services like Fortnite. But really it all boils down to $$. Publishers don’t respect players and a good portion love to put out a half baked game and hope that its fixed later. You can not give someone a live service day 1 which is already code word for BARE BONES and expect people to come back months and months later. Think Suicide Squad. You need to have meat on the bones and have replay value but publishers want fast money/results. They want to trick people to buy the initial game, buy cosmetics and then buy into any battlepass and play for years….but don’t even have a plan for years beyond “lets make $$”. A lot of publishers that are not dropping their live games imo is because yes all the things you said lack of originality, saturation but also because they don’t want to waste money on something to fail because they don’t believe in the old model anymore. …which was release a game, maybe have micro transactions, maybe have paid DLC. They hate that old model because they think live service = $$$. But they refuse to put in the time to make great game and want fast results. When we’ve had 10+ years of half assed live services fans also are learning to not buy garbage. Why buy something when the publisher doesn’t respect you or your intelligence to give you a complete game? Sadly people learned this far too late because poor live services should have been a discussion we as gamers threw out like a mob with pitchforks last gen. To be still having this talk now as we’re gearing up for another console generation in the next 3-4 years is sad. What’s that definition of insanity again?
@ Thank You! This is always a good topic but I’m just tired that publishers not respecting players. If you want people to buy your games…maybe start with respecting them. If a game is great and marketed well people will come.
It seems hard to create a game with: An interesting gameplay loop. Interesting rewards/loot/progression to chase. Engaging (longterm) content. I hope someone pulls it off again sometime soon.
I’ll never subscribe to the trend chasing concept. I can’t fathom why anyone would want to make the “game that is exactly like this other game” it reeks of creative bankruptcy and frankly laziness. Do something else. Stop copying and originate. There is an endless list of copy cat games that failed at launch and studios just keep churning them out.
I see part of the problem is, these games are time sinks. They are made to get u to out time into playing. An average player, works all day, maybe has 2 to 3 hours game time, a few nights a week, he/she is not gonna be playing many live service games. Usually one, maybe 2 at a time. They have become so grindy, u have to stick at it, to even make any progress!
First, a moment of silence for TLOU Factions. Second - I think some of the biggest problems facing live service right now is a lack of creative ideas that attract more gamers into the space. But single player gamers aren’t going to make that jump that easily, especially as they get older and have less time to devote to those games. Going back to factions on this note - would you agree we’ve seen a dip in multiplayer add-on to single player games? In the past, it seemed a lot of multiplayer titles were just tacked on modes to a single player game. Over time though, either that gets dropped (see TLOU) or the title shifts to live service (see GTA, CoD, etc). Is the old model of the adding a multiplayer mode with some MtX or DLC not profitable anymore? Or is it not profitable enough?
LIVE DISCUSSION - ua-cam.com/users/liveCTdSIE47WuU
The pool of players that want live service isn’t growing. It’s a static pool everyone is competing for. They get initial interest and then everyone goes back to the established juggernauts.
I feel another big problem is player time management. The fact there are so many great & shorter games out there, a live service can feel like a time suck in comparison. "Seasonal" updates arent usually compelling enough to compete with that.
yup, nobody wants part time job games anymore
Live Service games always felt like "Trend Chasing" the video game genre of this generation. It feels like the "Vast Open World" style of games felt like around the time of Skyrim got popular.
yup, every thing is open world now
Any upcoming live service game is going to have to compete against bohemoth GTA 6 Online as well.
good point
When live service fails it's typically a spectacle. When a random rogue fails it doesn't make a lot of noise. Live service games have to be big almost by definition.
this is a good observation
Count me in the group that hopes "Anthem" makes a comeback...So much potential there.
agreed
Athem was the best Iron Man game
GaaS and SaaS share similar issues. Everyone saw Netflix making bank and thought “hey we can do that” without considering how to actually get and retain users/viewers. Most people don’t want to pay for 12 different services, so they pick a few and stay on those. Games are the same, whether it’s time cost or dollar cost, gamers can’t afford to play every live service game, so they pick a few and stay on those.
yup feels like a trend chase
I think live services can be great. But I think development companies and publishers haven't fully been able to grapple with the effort and funding needed to make it succeed. Until they do, or until they catch lightning in a bottle. I don't think we will see many successful games coming to market.
exactly, and they have to get the community involved earlier
I am def 100% not a live service guy and I think a lot of the people who are have already found their game they are invested in with their time and money so it’s hard to find customers for new live service games!
exactly
“One of the primary reasons live service games fail is a lack of longevity. Developers often overestimate how long content will keep players engaged. If there isn't a consistent flow of new and exciting content, player interest can wane quickly. Take, for example, games that promise grand expansions but deliver underwhelming results.”
yup
Ya i feel like the arc raiders devs just basically killed their own game by adding pvp unless they give you the option to play one or the other great video man keep up the good work
yup, just another pvp extraction game
I was cautiously optimistic about Arc Raiders, but I'd forgotten about the original trailer, and compared to the new one...ehh...I'm not so optimistic anymore 😢
yeah the original trailer looked SO good
I’m pro live service but gosh darn it’d be great if more of them could capitalize on a constantly growing and evolving in game world
and more PVE live service games!
I always imagined the last of us online, similar to cods dmz mode, which i loved.
Big open map, several biomes, materials and loot to scavenge, npc bases to raid for good loot, other players to fight off and of course hundreds of infected.
U go in, pick up stuff, base materials, weapon and gear parts, medical supplies.
Maybe break into an npc stronghold base, or an infected nest, for the really good loot.
Then exfil the map from one of several points.
U keep wat u exfil with.
i dunno, it could have been good, but they didnt want to support it with their whole studio
Damn 💥 I miss Concord 💀
More live service failures is not surprising in the least. Every new live service game, be they PvE or PvP, not only has to contend within their own genre, they have to entice people away from their current live service. Even uniqueness isn’t enough, they’re still fighting over the power Fortnite and Warzone have on players.
yeah the saturation issue is why they should focus on PVE games
Yeah but here’s another problem like you address nobody is interested in live service games. You have suicide squad that had bad gameplay,bad story,bad lore,lack of source material,not knowing the characters very well and their origin stories,their powers,abilities and didn’t give you the option to save the justice league and gave better material for Kevin Conroy the voice of Bruce Wayne aka Batman & Arleen sorkin who did Harley Quinn’s voice and role well for Harley Quinn for suicide squad to succeed.
Concord was a different story cause of it wasn’t an asked for game,The trailer of concord was misleading, didn’t have a story too mode too it. The fact of it being live service instead of being like other games that had a story mode/ campaign mode to follow the story,lore of concord instead it was given a live service treatment.
The division is a different story cause it had a good story mode to it that everyone cared for but the other problem is their were game issues that game had .
Anthem had major game issues where it bricked your system to not be used but had good features too it and possibly a good story mode that it may had.
Companies need to listen to not only the feed back , but they also need to listen to customers and gamers to fix the problems of live service games where they need a story mode, lore,good characters and more. Also the other problem is people aren’t interested in live service games they want games like god of war, armored core, stellar blade,black myth wukong, palworld, hades, Elden ring, warhammer cause players&customers want good story,good lore,good,immersion,good escapism and more than a live service game that doesn’t do much for the gamer.
Everyone wants to chase the successful live services like Fortnite.
But really it all boils down to $$.
Publishers don’t respect players and a good portion love to put out a half baked game and hope that its fixed later. You can not give someone a live service day 1 which is already code word for BARE BONES and expect people to come back months and months later. Think Suicide Squad.
You need to have meat on the bones and have replay value but publishers want fast money/results. They want to trick people to buy the initial game, buy cosmetics and then buy into any battlepass and play for years….but don’t even have a plan for years beyond “lets make $$”.
A lot of publishers that are not dropping their live games imo is because yes all the things you said lack of originality, saturation but also because they don’t want to waste money on something to fail because they don’t believe in the old model anymore.
…which was release a game, maybe have micro transactions, maybe have paid DLC. They hate that old model because they think live service = $$$. But they refuse to put in the time to make great game and want fast results.
When we’ve had 10+ years of half assed live services fans also are learning to not buy garbage. Why buy something when the publisher doesn’t respect you or your intelligence to give you a complete game? Sadly people learned this far too late because poor live services should have been a discussion we as gamers threw out like a mob with pitchforks last gen.
To be still having this talk now as we’re gearing up for another console generation in the next 3-4 years is sad.
What’s that definition of insanity again?
great thoughts
@ Thank You! This is always a good topic but I’m just tired that publishers not respecting players.
If you want people to buy your games…maybe start with respecting them. If a game is great and marketed well people will come.
It seems hard to create a game with:
An interesting gameplay loop.
Interesting rewards/loot/progression to chase.
Engaging (longterm) content.
I hope someone pulls it off again sometime soon.
The first desendent is a very good game imo
agreed. underrated and looks and plays great on the Ps5 pro
eh, its fine
I’ll never subscribe to the trend chasing concept. I can’t fathom why anyone would want to make the “game that is exactly like this other game” it reeks of creative bankruptcy and frankly laziness. Do something else. Stop copying and originate. There is an endless list of copy cat games that failed at launch and studios just keep churning them out.
yup, that is exactly right
Agreed
I see part of the problem is, these games are time sinks.
They are made to get u to out time into playing.
An average player, works all day, maybe has 2 to 3 hours game time, a few nights a week, he/she is not gonna be playing many live service games.
Usually one, maybe 2 at a time.
They have become so grindy, u have to stick at it, to even make any progress!
a lot of us have moved on to smaller play sessions of more games
First, a moment of silence for TLOU Factions.
Second - I think some of the biggest problems facing live service right now is a lack of creative ideas that attract more gamers into the space. But single player gamers aren’t going to make that jump that easily, especially as they get older and have less time to devote to those games. Going back to factions on this note - would you agree we’ve seen a dip in multiplayer add-on to single player games?
In the past, it seemed a lot of multiplayer titles were just tacked on modes to a single player game. Over time though, either that gets dropped (see TLOU) or the title shifts to live service (see GTA, CoD, etc).
Is the old model of the adding a multiplayer mode with some MtX or DLC not profitable anymore? Or is it not profitable enough?
That canceled Spider-Man game might of been live service too 🤔
Live service ain't gonna work for sony so I'm glad Sony is concentrating on their single player games
and establishing better checks for quality according to the CEO
We don't want live service games, we want are single player bangers from Sony and also keep them off PC please!
we can have both!
@ReforgeGaming Absolutely 💙
Passion 🟰 success,
Trend chasing 🟰 failure!