Really enjoyed this video! I'm glad I decided to check it out. I didn't think it'd be possible to think about a game I've been playing for 20 years at such a new angle, but your analysis was so interesting. I hope others find this channel, because deconstructions this thoughtful and unique should be recognized more.
I must admit - i spent 17 years of my life wondering why i loved SA besides nostolgia when i played it as a kid. This video pretty much nailed it on the head (swapping campaigns so you dont get bored). I remember only having like an hour of playing and would cycle into campaigns and would never feel bored. loved this video. Subscribed!
That's awesome! I had a parallel experience - I wasn't limited to an hour or anything, but I was sharing the game cube with two brothers, so we took 15-minute turns, passing the controller back and forth. On our turns, it was very natural to switch characters, and it was only watching video essays as an adult that I was like, "Wait, why are they talking about doing Tails campaign after Sonic's campaign," and then realizing, "Oh, the game doesn't actually make you switch stories - we were just doing that because we were taking turns."
What I like about Adventure 1 is that I can play the full Sonic campaign without interruption, and then I can enjoy the other campaigns as side content. I have to get my head in the right space to play the Knuckles levels because I just don't like them. This is the main reason I prefer the first games structure over the second. In Adventure 2 I HAVE to play 2 gameplay styles I don't enjoy very much just to get to the parts that I do like. It removes that player agency. Mario 64's solution is that not every star is required, and stars can be done out of order. That's a solution that just can't be applied to a story based game like the Adventure games without MAJOR restructuring I enjoyed the video though! Definitely got me thinking
Oh and I do like the idea that you could switch characters in-game, but I think it would need to be more accessible than a static point on the map. I'm not a big fan of the following solution because it relies on menus, but you could just allow the player to access the selection wheel at the press of a button, and then you load into the area they were last at when you played their campaign last
Thanks for this reply! It's really interesting that your enjoyment is so different from my own. And I really like what you point out about Mario 64 not requiring every star. As essential as that is, that's a structural difference between the two games I hadn't even considered - and you're right, that wouldn't work for Sonic Adventure because of the story.
I remember this working better when I was a kid. I had shorter play sessions and struggled more to beat levels. Every time you boot up the game is a prompt to try another character, so shorter, less fruitful playing sessions naturally lead to trying more characters. I would also switch characters when stuck on a level. Nowadays, I play one story at a time, except that I do one level of Big in between each other story.
I like the ideas you provided for possible solutions. Though putting them together sounds a lot like Donkey Kong 64. DK64 is a great game, however it is criticized for the large amount of backtracking required (switching characters to unlock/access a new area of a level). I think when you said "there may not be a silver bullet" you were correct. Having multiple playable characters, there may not be a "streamlined" way of shaking up a campaign
That's a really interesting point! From what I understand, DK64 does even more that makes the process tedious (like smaller collectibles that require specific characters), so I don't think this game would ever have it as bad as DK64. But I still think your comparison is a good one, especially with the size of the overworld - I could definitely see the navigation between stages starting to feel more DK64-esque. I still think it would be an improvement over the current version, but yeah, it would still be flawed.
I (like a good amount of people) do still LOVE Sonic Adventure for a variety of reasons, but I do think the whole "Beat 1 campaign and then move on to another gameplay style when it's finished" was a bit annoying at certain points. I personally prefer the gameplay changing of SA2 with it switching gameplay styles constantly compared to doing the full extent of 1 style and then another style. This method meant the game didn't have both of these gameplay style switching type options, but it ended up choosing the one I'd probably prefer anyways. It is fascinating however that you could exit something like Sonic's campaign to go to another IF you wanted, but ofc that's quite a bit annoying given how long it takes to do that. Kind of reminds me of a similar issue I find myself having with Mario 64 where I want to switch worlds constantly after doing 1 mission (To keep things fresh) but doing that means you have to walk back and forth over and over which can REALLY add up the more you switch worlds. Both games generally come down to the issue of having the method to make levels more refreshing become annoying because of how much downtime you spend compared to just not switching up. I'd love to play SA1 & Mario 64 with some kind of solution the make this option way faster. But again, that's just my view on it.
100% agree! I think Sonic Adventure has it worse than Mario 64 - I do think new players of Mario 64 start out wanting to explore the castle and naturally looking at other paintings, whereas I'm not sure that new players on Sonic Adventure naturally quit the game to try other campaigns. I also think the Mario franchise has done some neat experiments to try to fix this problem in Galaxy (with its clusters of levels) and Bowser's Fury (which kinda situates you such that you're looking at another island and kinda hides the ability to instantly replay islands). I wonder if you could fix Mario 64 with a solution similar to Bowser's Fury - maybe like levels have different entrances and exits - so like you enter one painting, but when it boots you out, maybe you find yourself in a different room. For the beginning of the game, even booting you to the castle lobby could be an improvement - though that would quickly get annoying. And it would probably be confusing. Maybe a Galaxy approach, where you have multiple paintings in a singular room. I don't know. But I really can't figure out how you'd make these solutions apply to SA1.
I have not played Donkey Kong 64, but I was under the impression that the problem was not just multiple characters, but small collectibles for each of those characters. The example that's often given is the multi-colored bananas where each color can only be picked up by the correct character even if a different character can get to that spot. Sonic Adventure doesn't really have small collectibles like that so I don't think the backtracking would feel as bad. That said, I could imagine navigating the overworld feeling tedious in a way similar to Donkey Kong 64's backtracking. I think it helped my enjoyment of the game as a kid that I really liked exploring the overworld.
Really enjoyed this video! I'm glad I decided to check it out. I didn't think it'd be possible to think about a game I've been playing for 20 years at such a new angle, but your analysis was so interesting. I hope others find this channel, because deconstructions this thoughtful and unique should be recognized more.
I must admit - i spent 17 years of my life wondering why i loved SA besides nostolgia when i played it as a kid. This video pretty much nailed it on the head (swapping campaigns so you dont get bored). I remember only having like an hour of playing and would cycle into campaigns and would never feel bored.
loved this video. Subscribed!
That's awesome! I had a parallel experience - I wasn't limited to an hour or anything, but I was sharing the game cube with two brothers, so we took 15-minute turns, passing the controller back and forth. On our turns, it was very natural to switch characters, and it was only watching video essays as an adult that I was like, "Wait, why are they talking about doing Tails campaign after Sonic's campaign," and then realizing, "Oh, the game doesn't actually make you switch stories - we were just doing that because we were taking turns."
What I like about Adventure 1 is that I can play the full Sonic campaign without interruption, and then I can enjoy the other campaigns as side content. I have to get my head in the right space to play the Knuckles levels because I just don't like them. This is the main reason I prefer the first games structure over the second. In Adventure 2 I HAVE to play 2 gameplay styles I don't enjoy very much just to get to the parts that I do like. It removes that player agency. Mario 64's solution is that not every star is required, and stars can be done out of order. That's a solution that just can't be applied to a story based game like the Adventure games without MAJOR restructuring
I enjoyed the video though! Definitely got me thinking
Oh and I do like the idea that you could switch characters in-game, but I think it would need to be more accessible than a static point on the map. I'm not a big fan of the following solution because it relies on menus, but you could just allow the player to access the selection wheel at the press of a button, and then you load into the area they were last at when you played their campaign last
Thanks for this reply! It's really interesting that your enjoyment is so different from my own. And I really like what you point out about Mario 64 not requiring every star. As essential as that is, that's a structural difference between the two games I hadn't even considered - and you're right, that wouldn't work for Sonic Adventure because of the story.
I remember this working better when I was a kid. I had shorter play sessions and struggled more to beat levels. Every time you boot up the game is a prompt to try another character, so shorter, less fruitful playing sessions naturally lead to trying more characters. I would also switch characters when stuck on a level.
Nowadays, I play one story at a time, except that I do one level of Big in between each other story.
I like the ideas you provided for possible solutions. Though putting them together sounds a lot like Donkey Kong 64. DK64 is a great game, however it is criticized for the large amount of backtracking required (switching characters to unlock/access a new area of a level). I think when you said "there may not be a silver bullet" you were correct. Having multiple playable characters, there may not be a "streamlined" way of shaking up a campaign
That's a really interesting point! From what I understand, DK64 does even more that makes the process tedious (like smaller collectibles that require specific characters), so I don't think this game would ever have it as bad as DK64. But I still think your comparison is a good one, especially with the size of the overworld - I could definitely see the navigation between stages starting to feel more DK64-esque. I still think it would be an improvement over the current version, but yeah, it would still be flawed.
I (like a good amount of people) do still LOVE Sonic Adventure for a variety of reasons, but I do think the whole "Beat 1 campaign and then move on to another gameplay style when it's finished" was a bit annoying at certain points. I personally prefer the gameplay changing of SA2 with it switching gameplay styles constantly compared to doing the full extent of 1 style and then another style. This method meant the game didn't have both of these gameplay style switching type options, but it ended up choosing the one I'd probably prefer anyways. It is fascinating however that you could exit something like Sonic's campaign to go to another IF you wanted, but ofc that's quite a bit annoying given how long it takes to do that. Kind of reminds me of a similar issue I find myself having with Mario 64 where I want to switch worlds constantly after doing 1 mission (To keep things fresh) but doing that means you have to walk back and forth over and over which can REALLY add up the more you switch worlds. Both games generally come down to the issue of having the method to make levels more refreshing become annoying because of how much downtime you spend compared to just not switching up. I'd love to play SA1 & Mario 64 with some kind of solution the make this option way faster. But again, that's just my view on it.
100% agree! I think Sonic Adventure has it worse than Mario 64 - I do think new players of Mario 64 start out wanting to explore the castle and naturally looking at other paintings, whereas I'm not sure that new players on Sonic Adventure naturally quit the game to try other campaigns. I also think the Mario franchise has done some neat experiments to try to fix this problem in Galaxy (with its clusters of levels) and Bowser's Fury (which kinda situates you such that you're looking at another island and kinda hides the ability to instantly replay islands). I wonder if you could fix Mario 64 with a solution similar to Bowser's Fury - maybe like levels have different entrances and exits - so like you enter one painting, but when it boots you out, maybe you find yourself in a different room. For the beginning of the game, even booting you to the castle lobby could be an improvement - though that would quickly get annoying. And it would probably be confusing. Maybe a Galaxy approach, where you have multiple paintings in a singular room. I don't know. But I really can't figure out how you'd make these solutions apply to SA1.
Hmmm... I think you just recreated Donkey Kong 64, which isn't particularly well regarded.
I have not played Donkey Kong 64, but I was under the impression that the problem was not just multiple characters, but small collectibles for each of those characters. The example that's often given is the multi-colored bananas where each color can only be picked up by the correct character even if a different character can get to that spot. Sonic Adventure doesn't really have small collectibles like that so I don't think the backtracking would feel as bad. That said, I could imagine navigating the overworld feeling tedious in a way similar to Donkey Kong 64's backtracking. I think it helped my enjoyment of the game as a kid that I really liked exploring the overworld.