I didn’t learn a whole lot in music school that I couldn’t learn on my own. That being said, having a college degree helps if the full time musician gig isn’t working.
Im 57 and was talking to a friend that's older than me the other day about the current music situation. He said that music from our day was so much better because much more thought went into writing.
Or maybe No thought went in to it lol. It was how the music sounded and felt coming out when we were jamming, at least for me… we knew nothing about theory just what sounded good 😊
Your friend is 100% right. ( I'm 63 by the way. ) That's because there is so much new technology today being used such as "auto-tune" & digitally sampled/generated "music" that requires very little effort for both musicians and singers. And the less effort ( hard work that results in gained knowledge & musical prowess ) that is put into writing, composing, recording, and even performing music, the less SOUL & TALENT to be found in the resulting music. The majority of the mainstream music industry is plagued with this cancer. Those in positions of power in the industry nowadays could care less about the QUALITY & TALENT of today's so-called "music", because all they care about: is profits. Sure: auto-tune would've been accepted & used by singers & musicians from the bygone years, had it been available, but the simple truth is, they would've kept it's use to an absolute minimum, because they understood & appreciated the hard work & talent that is REQUIRED to make good music. There is a nobility in that, and that nobility is also sorely lacking in mainstream music today. Same goes for the majority of the younger music FANS who know nothing about what it takes to make REAL quality music........they could care less. On the contrary, mature music fans from yesteryear, in spite of the fact that they couldn't sing or play an instrument themselves, had a much better understanding & appreciation for REAL music. I witnessed this change in the attitude of non-musicians over the years firsthand: Not all of them of course, but most young fans today could care less about REAL music.......GOOD music, that requires a lot of hard work & talent to write & perform. Back in the 90's, I lived in a large apartment complex & had a friend who was also a talented musician as a neighbor. Both of us had just recently retired from the local club band scene. The two of us would get together to play & sing with our acoustic guitars. The kids from 17 to 25 yrs old would literally beat on our doors almost weekly to offer us money if we would play at their parties. And they wanted us to perform the GOOD music from the late 60's & the 70's mostly. Anywhere from 10 to 20 of them would sit all night long mesmerized by our acoustic performances. Those kids were literally the reason we decided to buy a small PA system & form an acoustic duo, where we wound up gigging professionally again for the next decade. Those days are long gone around my parts. It's sad.
I appreciate your opinion but it is still very one sided from what I'm hearing. I don't think you can really say whether college is worth it if you've never been to college. I am SO glad I went to college - it was some of the best years of my life. College is about more than just the subject you are studying - it's boot camp for your brain - it's pushing yourself beyond your limits - it's dealing with stress, deadlines, challenges - it's about managing your time - and so much more. Your options for going to college aren't just ivy league schools - no one wants to have insurmountable debt. I went to a modest local university in a small town and graduated debt free. Glad I did. I do agree with you there - you don't want to go if it means having a debt that takes longer a than a few years to pay off afterward. If you can't do that - let go of some of your pride and go somewhere you can afford or have a scholarship to or family living nearby to assist. College isn't about getting a gig - it's about never having limitations. If you can play - no one cares if you have a degree - that's true. BUT, most players are now independent businessmen if you think about it. Getting some exposure to Business Law, Finance, Accounting, Economics - might be a worthy endeavor. Maybe as a musician you shouldn't even go to college for music if you are pretty good in that area - maybe you should get a degree in Business - you'll likely be running your own as yourself. The last thing college is about is aging you and seasoning you a bit. I don't see many 17 year old's walking on and playing instantly downtown. You need some culture. When you are sitting around the dinner table after a gig - you might be thankful you had that class in American History or Calculus or Political Science so you can discuss things at a higher level without sounding like you aren't well read. That will become even more important later when you are doing big business deals with heavy hitters - maybe. You can do all that own your own by getting some books from the library and reading them yes - but will you? Finally you keep learning - college just makes you realize you can do more - learn more - understand more - than you ever thought possible. Everything I do now I learned after college - I learn every day - and I can assure you if I hadn't gone I would never have been able to do that. I am capable of far beyond what I thought I was - that's college. It's also super inspiring and motivating to be around others who are interesting in what you are - and they push you to be better. Those connections in some cases last a lifetime. One of my roommates in college ended up letting me know about an opening at a company he was working with and enjoying - I ended up getting a job there and working there for 15 years - learning, growing, and having tons of stability. So, if you don't go - you'll miss out on making those connections - and one of those connections might end up being your future wife - you never know.
Hi Justin, I went to Guitar Institute in London many years ago. Students came out knowing theory and how to read music, but were toneless robots. They did not produce guitar players by Stevie Ray Vaughan Eddie Van Halen David Gilmour Jeff Beck. They were all craft and no art. Stevie Ray Vaughan said tone over technique,so true!
Agreed, though the only difference for me is that the guitar players who went to college have more connections. I never went to music school, and it was so challenging landing my first gig. The process of getting more gigs was so slow, compared to those who went to school who were playing 3+ times per week.
Unfortunately/Fortunately, regular college isn't worth it anymore, either. Unless you're going in to a specific field like physical engineering fields, medical, or other sciences. College was the absolute worst money I've ever spent and I couldn't imagine having all the debt from music school to make $100/gig. Also, great content!
So I've got to disagree.. .with some caveats. The big caveat being that I'm in Canada, where a bachelors degree for a Canadian might be around $7000 Canadian ($4900 USD) a year these days. So the economics are different than what you are saying. Tuition is low enough here, that I was able to pay my way through school by gigging as a musician (and doing cruise ships a couple summers). At this point, I actually have 2 college music diplomas, my Bachelor of Music, Bachelor of Education, and Masters in Music Education. I always saw music education as being largely practical - and I was able to do some weekend gigs, teach a few lessons, and really hustle things like weddings in the summer, all while doing school. I ultimately have 9 years of post secondary, but never took out a single loan because I was always able to work as a musician. At any rate, my experience of college music was it was 100% worthwhile, but it isn't necessarily for everyone. In my case, I wanted to be a professional musician since I could barely walk, but I came from a remote, small town, and was mostly just self taught because there weren't people around to teach me. Going to music college gave me so many opportunities and advanced my playing so quickly. What I learned in a 2 year college program would have taken me a decade or more to piece together otherwise. I wasn't ready to be gigging out of high school, and I don't think I'd be a professional musician today if I hadn't gone. If I had just tried to move to a place like Nashville and just go for it, I would have been eaten alive and probably given up within a few months (and probably ended up with more debt doing that than I ever did going to music school!). Perhaps if I had grown up in a musical family, or somewhere that had opportunities to learn from players, or take lessons, I wouldn't have needed to go to school, but in retrospect, I can now say that for myself, music school was a vital part of turning me into a professional musician. And I'll tell you what - I've absolutely had gigs that I would not have been able to do, and wouldn't have been considered for, if I didn't have that background. In doing school, I really got my reading chops together - and I've done a number of gigs since, that require reading (such as playing with a symphony, backing travelling guest entertainers, playing classical guitar at high end corporate functions, cruise ship orchestras, etc). Some of those gigs have paid upwards of $600-$2000 for a single night - much more than your $500/night max. I have been hired to score big band charts, do arrangements for choirs, all sorts of things that I wouldn't have been able to do without some amount of formal training. I'm able to direct choirs, conduct big bands, and do all sorts of things that help me make a living in music. Now certainly, for the majority of gigs, you don't need to have a degree for, and no one has ever asked me if I have a degree - they will always care more about how you play than HOW you learned to play really well. Skills like networking, being a good hang, being professional, learning the material, being flexible, etc will always be the most important. And these aren't skills one necessarily learns in going to music school - I've met plenty of musicians with degrees that I wouldn't hire for a gig. But having the school knowledge AND the real world, gigging, to me, is pretty fantastic. Having the ability to not just be a guitarist, but having the knowledge to be able to problem solve harmonies, communicate ideas efficiently, play multiple instruments, etc all give me a certain "extra value" in a rehearsal room that sometimes add to why I get a call back. Music school also gave me lots of lifelong connections. Many of my best gigs have been with people I met through going to school. Many of my classmates are now some of the top musicians in the country and abroad, and some of the best gigs I've ever had are because old classmates of mine called me up because a band need a guitarist, or someone needed a sub, etc. I don't think everyone needs to go to music school, but depending on your goals and personality, I do think it can absolutely be worthwhile.
Oh, I’ll add also that music school helped me fix technique problems that would have likely led to tendinitis or some other form of injury. Again, if you’ve had the right people in your life as mentors, or are just the kind of person that is mindful of that stuff, you might not need it, but I have no doubt that music school helped set me up for a lifetime of music making.
Maybe do music and get a degree in business (which you can get from a state college for a very reasonable price). Perhaps other doors would open, managing a band, studio, working for a label. But if all you want is to play…then yeah do it!
The same goes for any culinary school program isn't taken at a community college. Not worth the big bucks to put "cordon bleu" next to your name. You're not going to make any more money and will have a hard time paying any loans back after graduating.
well ,, when I was in my 20's... i went to school and racked up about $60,00 in schooling. early to mid 80's.. that was alot of money... I made the money back in about 18 months after finishing up college. it was a good invest ment.....im currently rolling really well....very successful engineering career
@@larrnew huh? he is talking about school costs in the 80s. What are you even talking about? As an engineer, retired math and robotics teacher it sounds about right to me.
@@martydibergi5228 when i finished school in the early 80's. i owed $60,000 in school debt. with in a month a got a $40,000 a year job. in 18 months i made $60,000.. got my money back.
I didn’t learn a whole lot in music school that I couldn’t learn on my own. That being said, having a college degree helps if the full time musician gig isn’t working.
Im 57 and was talking to a friend that's older than me the other day about the current music situation. He said that music from our day was so much better because much more thought went into writing.
old school music is much better
Or maybe No thought went in to it lol.
It was how the music sounded and felt coming out when we were jamming, at least for me… we knew nothing about theory just what sounded good 😊
Your friend is 100% right. ( I'm 63 by the way. ) That's because there is so much new technology today being used such as "auto-tune" & digitally sampled/generated "music" that requires very little effort for both musicians and singers. And the less effort ( hard work that results in gained knowledge & musical prowess ) that is put into writing, composing, recording, and even performing music, the less SOUL & TALENT to be found in the resulting music. The majority of the mainstream music industry is plagued with this cancer. Those in positions of power in the industry nowadays could care less about the QUALITY & TALENT of today's so-called "music", because all they care about: is profits. Sure: auto-tune would've been accepted & used by singers & musicians from the bygone years, had it been available, but the simple truth is, they would've kept it's use to an absolute minimum, because they understood & appreciated the hard work & talent that is REQUIRED to make good music. There is a nobility in that, and that nobility is also sorely lacking in mainstream music today. Same goes for the majority of the younger music FANS who know nothing about what it takes to make REAL quality music........they could care less. On the contrary, mature music fans from yesteryear, in spite of the fact that they couldn't sing or play an instrument themselves, had a much better understanding & appreciation for REAL music. I witnessed this change in the attitude of non-musicians over the years firsthand: Not all of them of course, but most young fans today could care less about REAL music.......GOOD music, that requires a lot of hard work & talent to write & perform. Back in the 90's, I lived in a large apartment complex & had a friend who was also a talented musician as a neighbor. Both of us had just recently retired from the local club band scene. The two of us would get together to play & sing with our acoustic guitars. The kids from 17 to 25 yrs old would literally beat on our doors almost weekly to offer us money if we would play at their parties. And they wanted us to perform the GOOD music from the late 60's & the 70's mostly. Anywhere from 10 to 20 of them would sit all night long mesmerized by our acoustic performances. Those kids were literally the reason we decided to buy a small PA system & form an acoustic duo, where we wound up gigging professionally again for the next decade. Those days are long gone around my parts. It's sad.
@@howabouthetruth2157 well said 👍
@@tykit9230 Cheers........Merry Christmas & God Bless you & your family.
I appreciate your opinion but it is still very one sided from what I'm hearing. I don't think you can really say whether college is worth it if you've never been to college. I am SO glad I went to college - it was some of the best years of my life. College is about more than just the subject you are studying - it's boot camp for your brain - it's pushing yourself beyond your limits - it's dealing with stress, deadlines, challenges - it's about managing your time - and so much more.
Your options for going to college aren't just ivy league schools - no one wants to have insurmountable debt. I went to a modest local university in a small town and graduated debt free. Glad I did. I do agree with you there - you don't want to go if it means having a debt that takes longer a than a few years to pay off afterward. If you can't do that - let go of some of your pride and go somewhere you can afford or have a scholarship to or family living nearby to assist.
College isn't about getting a gig - it's about never having limitations. If you can play - no one cares if you have a degree - that's true. BUT, most players are now independent businessmen if you think about it. Getting some exposure to Business Law, Finance, Accounting, Economics - might be a worthy endeavor. Maybe as a musician you shouldn't even go to college for music if you are pretty good in that area - maybe you should get a degree in Business - you'll likely be running your own as yourself.
The last thing college is about is aging you and seasoning you a bit. I don't see many 17 year old's walking on and playing instantly downtown. You need some culture. When you are sitting around the dinner table after a gig - you might be thankful you had that class in American History or Calculus or Political Science so you can discuss things at a higher level without sounding like you aren't well read. That will become even more important later when you are doing big business deals with heavy hitters - maybe. You can do all that own your own by getting some books from the library and reading them yes - but will you?
Finally you keep learning - college just makes you realize you can do more - learn more - understand more - than you ever thought possible. Everything I do now I learned after college - I learn every day - and I can assure you if I hadn't gone I would never have been able to do that. I am capable of far beyond what I thought I was - that's college.
It's also super inspiring and motivating to be around others who are interesting in what you are - and they push you to be better. Those connections in some cases last a lifetime. One of my roommates in college ended up letting me know about an opening at a company he was working with and enjoying - I ended up getting a job there and working there for 15 years - learning, growing, and having tons of stability. So, if you don't go - you'll miss out on making those connections - and one of those connections might end up being your future wife - you never know.
Hi Justin, I went to Guitar Institute in London many years ago. Students came out knowing theory and how to read music, but were toneless robots. They did not produce guitar players by Stevie Ray Vaughan Eddie Van Halen David Gilmour Jeff Beck. They were all craft and no art. Stevie Ray Vaughan said tone over technique,so true!
Shakira’s drummer didn’t read a lick of music and was the number one phone call for any and all sessions in Miami, back in the day.
Agreed, though the only difference for me is that the guitar players who went to college have more connections. I never went to music school, and it was so challenging landing my first gig. The process of getting more gigs was so slow, compared to those who went to school who were playing 3+ times per week.
Unfortunately/Fortunately, regular college isn't worth it anymore, either. Unless you're going in to a specific field like physical engineering fields, medical, or other sciences.
College was the absolute worst money I've ever spent and I couldn't imagine having all the debt from music school to make $100/gig.
Also, great content!
So I've got to disagree.. .with some caveats. The big caveat being that I'm in Canada, where a bachelors degree for a Canadian might be around $7000 Canadian ($4900 USD) a year these days. So the economics are different than what you are saying. Tuition is low enough here, that I was able to pay my way through school by gigging as a musician (and doing cruise ships a couple summers). At this point, I actually have 2 college music diplomas, my Bachelor of Music, Bachelor of Education, and Masters in Music Education. I always saw music education as being largely practical - and I was able to do some weekend gigs, teach a few lessons, and really hustle things like weddings in the summer, all while doing school. I ultimately have 9 years of post secondary, but never took out a single loan because I was always able to work as a musician.
At any rate, my experience of college music was it was 100% worthwhile, but it isn't necessarily for everyone. In my case, I wanted to be a professional musician since I could barely walk, but I came from a remote, small town, and was mostly just self taught because there weren't people around to teach me. Going to music college gave me so many opportunities and advanced my playing so quickly. What I learned in a 2 year college program would have taken me a decade or more to piece together otherwise. I wasn't ready to be gigging out of high school, and I don't think I'd be a professional musician today if I hadn't gone. If I had just tried to move to a place like Nashville and just go for it, I would have been eaten alive and probably given up within a few months (and probably ended up with more debt doing that than I ever did going to music school!). Perhaps if I had grown up in a musical family, or somewhere that had opportunities to learn from players, or take lessons, I wouldn't have needed to go to school, but in retrospect, I can now say that for myself, music school was a vital part of turning me into a professional musician.
And I'll tell you what - I've absolutely had gigs that I would not have been able to do, and wouldn't have been considered for, if I didn't have that background. In doing school, I really got my reading chops together - and I've done a number of gigs since, that require reading (such as playing with a symphony, backing travelling guest entertainers, playing classical guitar at high end corporate functions, cruise ship orchestras, etc). Some of those gigs have paid upwards of $600-$2000 for a single night - much more than your $500/night max. I have been hired to score big band charts, do arrangements for choirs, all sorts of things that I wouldn't have been able to do without some amount of formal training. I'm able to direct choirs, conduct big bands, and do all sorts of things that help me make a living in music.
Now certainly, for the majority of gigs, you don't need to have a degree for, and no one has ever asked me if I have a degree - they will always care more about how you play than HOW you learned to play really well. Skills like networking, being a good hang, being professional, learning the material, being flexible, etc will always be the most important. And these aren't skills one necessarily learns in going to music school - I've met plenty of musicians with degrees that I wouldn't hire for a gig. But having the school knowledge AND the real world, gigging, to me, is pretty fantastic. Having the ability to not just be a guitarist, but having the knowledge to be able to problem solve harmonies, communicate ideas efficiently, play multiple instruments, etc all give me a certain "extra value" in a rehearsal room that sometimes add to why I get a call back.
Music school also gave me lots of lifelong connections. Many of my best gigs have been with people I met through going to school. Many of my classmates are now some of the top musicians in the country and abroad, and some of the best gigs I've ever had are because old classmates of mine called me up because a band need a guitarist, or someone needed a sub, etc.
I don't think everyone needs to go to music school, but depending on your goals and personality, I do think it can absolutely be worthwhile.
Oh, I’ll add also that music school helped me fix technique problems that would have likely led to tendinitis or some other form of injury. Again, if you’ve had the right people in your life as mentors, or are just the kind of person that is mindful of that stuff, you might not need it, but I have no doubt that music school helped set me up for a lifetime of music making.
Truth!
now if college was free,,, and you had a 4 year degree in music,, and you loved playing guitar... KNOWLEDGE is POWER and then some..
Maybe do music and get a degree in business (which you can get from a state college for a very reasonable price). Perhaps other doors would open, managing a band, studio, working for a label. But if all you want is to play…then yeah do it!
To quote Will Hunting, “You wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library.”
The same goes for any culinary school program isn't taken at a community college. Not worth the big bucks to put "cordon bleu" next to your name. You're not going to make any more money and will have a hard time paying any loans back after graduating.
Hi Justin❤
Plumbers get a $1000 to fix a leaky tap. Musician’s get $100 fior a nights work. Go figure
@@glennmartin4232 it’s no fun fixing a leaky tap. It’s fun playing guitar all night
@ it is until you can’t pay rent or eat.🤣
The courses never are. It's the contacts you make there
EDUCATION IS THE WAY TO GO.. the problem is. its ridicuosly unafordable.....................
well ,, when I was in my 20's... i went to school and racked up about $60,00 in schooling. early to mid 80's.. that was alot of money... I made the money back in about 18 months after finishing up college. it was a good invest ment.....im currently rolling really well....very successful engineering career
likewise even ran my own business for a while too.
How much is $60,00?? Sounds like you flunked math….🤡
@ yes my friend, you are a clown 🤡
@@larrnew huh? he is talking about school costs in the 80s. What are you even talking about? As an engineer, retired math and robotics teacher it sounds about right to me.
@@martydibergi5228 when i finished school in the early 80's. i owed $60,000 in school debt. with in a month a got a $40,000 a year job. in 18 months i made $60,000.. got my money back.