I wish all who are endowed in the LDS Temple would watch this. There is so much more to understand and embrace. This is extremely motivating and comforting. Thank you Bruce!
Nothing that we have learned in the last hundred years has called into question the sacred rites of the temple. Quite the opposite. The early Christian church had similar rites, and a form of them were practiced in Egypt. Joseph Smith actually restored something important that was lost.
@@robertrosskopf4641 ''Joseph Smith actually restored something important that was lost.'' Yes, I believe that one by the name of Paul Gregersen said that Joseph Smith received revelation to translate the counterfeits (Egyptian characters) in reverse back to a biblical context.
@@richardholmes7199 He may have had some initial thoughts, but no actual translation was ever made. There is no evidence that he ever used his gift as seer to decipher them.
@@robertrosskopf4641 What we are now aware of is the assessments from the Egyptolocal field have been demonstrated as being all based on false assumptions on translation.
I am back again to understand more about the facsimiles and BoA. Thanks so much for this video, it really debunks the anti-Mormon and critics about the BoA, it make them and their arguments look like children’s play. This is the true church of Jesus Christ. Wish there is more LDS members would see this video.
Is there any significance in noting that the name of the god "Ani" is not found in the Bible but is found in the Book of Mormon as "Ani-Anti" (Alma 21:11), which claims to have been written in reformed Egyptian?
When we bury people, we put things in with them. It doesn't mean that's the only use for those things. But technically they would call those funeral items. The same could be said about specific Bibles buried with people in various graves... but to limit Bibles to being funeral texts is a limited explanation of their use. Same thing here... they are showing pieces of various ceremonies and with various levels of orthodoxy and detail but always in the same order, passed in it's imperfect form to their lineages.
@@azmachinist2421 Yup, a side show of idiots running their mouths all agreeing with each other. Secretly wanting to bring polygamy back. Remember when Gittum Young started a new alphabet based off the celestial language. Good thing Mormonism isn't a cult or that would be weird.
1) Left click on the three dots at the bottom right of the video, and left click on "Show transcript." 2) Left click on the three vertical dots at the top of the Transcript, and left click on "Toggle timestamps." 3) Left click and hold the mouse button down at the top of the Transcript and drag to the bottom of the Transcript in order to highlight the entire Transcript. 4) Right click on the highlighted Transcript text and left click on "copy." 5) Paste to a text program like Notepad or Microsoft Word.
Thank you for this, I have looked at these and the existing temples in Egypt and sought to know the correlation. This is so intriguing and informative for those who have gone through the Temple.
I have enjoyed this beautiful lesson very much and hope you will do more. I do wish you would read a little slower for those of us that don't keep up so well anymore. I have loved every second of your talk. Thank you so much.
Pharoah, "seeking earnestly to imitate"I like this.I have always viewed the facsimile as containing archtypical figures. where direct translation would not get back to the true meaing..
One by the name of Paul Gregersen, the one who debunked the egyptologists and the anti-Mormons by demonstrating Joseph Smith's translation was never supposed to concur with the one from that of the egyptological field to begin with, covers that on his first video.
And by your faithfulness you will know the the truth of these things. It will become a realization! The spirit found in the temple prepares us for Celestial life. We become accustomed to the celestial light and glory and know what it feels like. We gain a portion of that light and knowledge. As our faith increases and we become more sanctified in the the Lord. We will be brought closer and closer to Him. (Until we enter his presence and enjoy eternal life). Thank you for your research and sharing your knowledge. The gospel today is patterned after the ancient gospel. That makes sense. The ancient gospel and the gospel today is patterned after the heavenly gospel or government of God and so it is eternal.
Wow! Amazing, thank you so much! I have been confused for decades by all things Egyptian, knowing that there was a higher meaning than what I understood. I learned a lot from this, thank you for this gift of knowledge.
Notice how he falsely tries to make you think that Joseph Smith mistakenly labeled the Egyptian God "OF" Elkanah as literally being Elkanah? Or, the God "OF" Korish was somehow actually being Korish himself! Do you dare even recognize how you are having your intelligence insulted here? Would you say the "God OF Abraham" was Abraham? Or, the God of Jacob was named Jacob? Prophets have always used this prophetic type of terminology to avoid the repeating of God's name over and over in scripture! If you say "the God of Abraham" everybody knows it is referring directly to "Jehovah" and NOT Abraham in which you were referring too! Joseph Smith never ever said the God of Elkanah was named Elkanah like Dr. Ritner clearly gets this fact all wrong! Read Joseph's explanation closely in the book of Abraham, he only refers to this subject as the four corners of the earth in his translations, and no more! This whole subject has become an anti Mormon echo chamber of misdirection. Let me disentangle it for you. Dr. Ritner and these anti Mormons convert Joseph's motives into a false narrative using the wrong lens to focus your attention on the wrong emphasis. They obviously think that you are stupid and hope you will never notice the correct textual meaning while they try to make it say something else that it clearly doesn't say at all ! Why? Because they hate the church and constantly resort to new trickery. Actually Dr. Porter and Dr. Gee are correct by their associating those canopic jar names with the four corners of the earth only in their videos. However, later even they somehow got this off the track. But, the four corners of the EARTH are associated with the God of Elkanah and the others. The Gods OF EGYPT mean the same thing as saying the God "OF "Israel identifying literally Israel itself. You don't need to say the actual name of that God at all to refer directly to it ! ! ! The God of Elkanah is talking about a name of a place or person like unto the God of Israel or likewise the God of Egypt or the God "OF" some other entity. If it meant Elkanah was the name of the god then it would obviously name it "the God-Elkanah" and not the god "OF" Elkanah. Why did Joseph Smith not ever use Egyptian names? A true prophet would not have associated false God's having fictitious fake Egyptian names becoming legitimized in holy scripture anyway. In Doctrine & Covenants Joseph Smith never ever names Mars or Jupiter or Venus as he describes planets or solar systems. The same reason no prophet would EVER legitimize pagan God's like Mars or Venus in any holy scripture. Instead a true prophet would use gospel related Hebrew names that God sanctioned to describe God's creations and never adapt Idalatrous names coming from man made Greek or Egyptian myths. These guys in this video figure you are stupid. It's all an echo chamber of misdirection. This guy posted Abraham UA-cam videos clearly disentangle these lies easily. To see this click UA-cam video titled " Book of Abraham part 13" By P. Gregersen. Take notice, how no church critic will dare respond to his objections to their above video. . Why? I'
I believe that only the above Bruce Porter and one by the name of Paul Gregersen demonstrate that it was more of an explanation than a translation. Paul Gregersen debunked the Egyptologists back in the year 2014 by demonstrating that the translation/explanation from Joseph Smith was never supposed to be seen as being translated the same way the Egyptologists say, the anti-Mormons will not admit it though.
@@azmachinist2421 Why antagonize? If people are happy believing if what you perceive to be silly fairy tales, why not just let them? Why ruin their happiness, even if it's fabricated? So more people can be like you? Even if the whole of religion is a big lie, I'd rather have pretended and fabricated happiness than not. Let people alone and live their lives however they want if it's not harming you in any way. Sad.
@@azmachinist2421 If I cannot prove Smith translated the book of Abraham correctly I'll apologize to the entire world. See my new upload titled "Book of Abraham part 9. By me.
There's a great book by an LDS author that shows that there's perfect harmony between the prophetic statements concerning the garden of Eden being in Missouri and the Old Testament account concerning the garden of Eden. It's called Canaan, Babylon, and Egypt A Comparative Theological Analysis on Creation sold by Eborn Books.
No. The ordinances DO matter to fulfill all righteousness and must be administered by those with the keys. It isn't just about knowledge. It is always preperatory, yes... BUT the ordinances are absolutely essential as part of the work for the living and dead. Careful.
Sacred places outside the temples, evidenced by mankind's efforts to worship, since time began are simple, but exquisite. Worship locations unearthed and built by the Druids, are just as spirit filled as we hope out temples possess.
This is a fabulous retort to anyone suggesting that we're the only ones who purport becoming like God (which is silly, else how would anyone model themselves after Christ?).
@@richardholmes7199 There is no proof in that video, just the numerology of a sick mind. This is a very good series on the Book of Abraham: ua-cam.com/video/AtJT_xjIgdM/v-deo.html
@@huffdaddy3845 The charge against Joseph Smith is that he is a false prophet because he didn't translate the Book of Abraham Egyptian sensen text papri characters the same way that the egyptologists say they're supposed to be translated like, right? Yes, of course. As you have to maintain this position to have a case. However, was Joseph Smith supposed to translate like an egyptologist would? NO. Therefore, what's the problem?
According to the book of Jasher, noah’s son Ham whose wife’s name is Egyptus, their sons name is Pharoah The first king of Egypt, subsequently all kings took the title name of Pharoah who would be the king of Egypt.
So are the ordinances that the Egyptians performed merely tradition and will need to be performed again with authority someday - seeing Pharoah did not have the priesthood?
The Shabaka Stone apparently dates from about 800 BC -- ancient, to be sure, but nowhere near being the "oldest written document in the world." The Sumerian and Akkadian cuneiform texts, proto-Elamite, the Shang Dynasty oracle bone texts from China, the Indus Valley inscriptions from South Asia, Linear A, Linear B, and other scripts from the eastern Mediterranean, and all of the the writings from the Egyptian Old and Middle Kingdoms -- just to mention a few examples -- are all far older.
Love this video. It confirmed things that I had been thinking for a long time, like the correlation between Thoth and Enoch. It helps me see the gospel in existence before the flood and rite after the flood and what was left of it in Egypt by Abrahams time. I took a lot out of it. I just don't like the Trolls in the comment section, which are a little better than terrorist and that's just because they aren't shooting people or blowing them up. Pharasies that have nothing better to do than watch Mormon videos and hate on them. If they hate these videos why watch them? Why aren't they watching uplifting Born Again Christian videos instead. Or does that even exist?
One by the name of Paul Gregersen debunked the egyptologists in 2014. Paul debunked the egyptologists by demonstrating Joseph Smith was never, like the anti-Mormon duplicates and the egyptologists assumed, supposed to translate the egyptian sensen text characters to what the egyptologists say they meant. In other words, Joseph Smith was never supposed to translate like an egyptologist. The assumption that Joseph Smith was supposed to translate like an egyptologist not only debunks the anti-Mormons but also proves they're unintelligent. As the assumption from the anti-Mormons that Joseph Smith was supposed to translate the egyptian sensen text characters to what the egyptologists say they meant would have mean the Mormons believe in jackal gods, Osiris, Anubis. Joseph Smith translated in reverse back to a biblical text, the original. This is proper interpretation. Whereas the anti-Mormon cult assumed Joseph Smith was supposed to translate the characters to what the egyptologists say they meant. Joseph Smith was right, the egyptologists were wrong. Not that the anti-Mormons will admit to it.
Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) youtube''. It's a video from Paul Gregersen. A video demonstrating the anti-Mormon cult were debunked due to their assumption Joseph Smith was supposed to translate the sensen text papyri characters to what the egyptologists say they meant.
I find it fascinating how the ordinances of the temple emulate the ancient rituals of the Egyptians through Joseph's telling of Ani and Jews through the Templars then the Masons have been preserved through all these many centuries of apostasy to our day in the last dispensation. People can say Joeseph Smith was wrong for buying and transcribing the papyri and being a Mason but weren't these things necessary as our Prophet and the instrument of God to establish the most valuable ordinances to our day in the fullness of times? I have one question. Would Ani or any Pharaoh have to go through the ritual every time that they went to the holy of holies or was this a one time event before the first time?
Just the tip of the iceberg in Abraham contrast with Egypt. See why Joseph converted what the Egyptians counterfeited back into a biblical timeline. Link UTube video titled (BOA ep 16) by Paul Gregersen to get there
In the scripture of Peter. Nowhere does it claim that Peter is The Rock. He is talking about addressing Peter because they were having a conversation. Peter is not the rock upon which the church will be built. Talking about the concept of both Revelation and of the inexorable history of Truth. That is still to this day one of the worst understandings of that scripture. It is completely out of context. I would like to see it transliterated from the Greek. It's probably a bit more explanatory when you talk about the entire conversation they were having about revelation. He even talks about the three mechanisms, none of which include Peter. Peter is an apostle who brings that story to fruition. But he is not one of the three elements of the Church of Christ. Otherwise you could properly call it the Church of Peter. You even going to explain all of these things about how Christ has a Livingstone how Christ is a Cornerstone how Christ is the stone disallowed, how Christ is the head of the corner, etc etc etc, but at no time is it explained that the rock is Peter. Don't say Blasphemous things! Thank you for the semi translation from the Greek wear it again explains how Peter is not the damn Rock B Christ is talking about. He just isn't.
The first author in the Book of Mormon (Nephi) says that his parents were good, and that they taught him in the languages of both his father (Hebrew) and the Egyptians (his father was a trader with Egypt) The Plates of Brass records Nephi returned to Jerusalem to get were written in a short hand form of Egyptian (called Reformed Egyptian) these Plates of Brass were the records of Joseph while he was in Egypt, they were written on and passed down from father to son down to the time right before Nebuchadnezzar, Nephi was asked to return for them so that their family could have scriptures with them as they traveled in the wilderness (a ten year journey) Nephi (as well as later Book of Mormon authors) says that the short hand form of Egyptian takes up less writing space on the plates than Hebrew does (one symbol conveys an entire meaning rather than spelling out entire meanings with words) North American Hopewell archeology has found Hebrew writings on cave walls, stone, and Native American artifacts, it appears that for every day transactions (letters, legal documents, etc) Hebrew was used, but then for sacred writings on Plates of Brass or Gold Reformed Egyptian was used, North American archeology is confirming, that the practice of being taught in both languages continued from Nephi, all throughout the entire one thousand year period, right down to the last author Moroni, who is one of the authors, who says that he is writing in Reformed Egyptian, because of lack of space on his Plates of Gold... I hope I answered your question...
Amazing video. I believe horus represents the ascending seraph... A priest becoming a king as in Zechariah. Peter, James and John represent this order of especial witnesses who take us to the veil and say to the lord through the veil we have been faithful in all things. This is a tremendous confirmation as Horus is the one who does this in the Ani scroll. Horus is the angel of the Lord who is the holy ghost who is the end times Elias who restores all things, fulfills Yom Kippur as the ultimate high priest of Levi, and who calls forth the first resurrection.
@borrowed tomb You're looking at this translation the wrong way. That's what DEBUNKED the Egyptologists. The Egyptologists have been soundly, thoroughly debunked due to their own false assumptions.
The end time Elias is the spirit and power of Elijah (which is the Melchizedek priesthood). From Joseph Smiths own sermon at Nauvoo temple grounds on March 10th 1844. Which explains why our temples have more in common with the temples of Egypt rather than Jerusalem as Bruce Porter explains. "But if I spend much more time in conversing about the spirit of Elias I shall not have time to do justice to the spirit & power of Elijah, this is the Elias spoken of in the last days & here is the rock upon which many split thinking the time was past in the days of John & Christ & no more to be, but the spirit of Elias was revealed to me & I know it is true therefore I speak with boldness for I know verily my doctrine is true. Now for Elijah, the spirit power & calling of Elijah is that ye have power to hold the keys of the revelations ordinances, oricles powers & endowments of the fulness of the Melchezedek Priesthood & of the Kingdom of God on the Earth & to receive, obtain & perform all the ordinances belonging to the Kingdom of God even unto the sealing of the hearts of the hearts fathers unto the children & the hearts of the children unto the fathers even those who are in heaven. Malachi says I will send Elijah before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come & He shall turn the hearts of the Fathers to the Children and the hearts of the Children to the Fathers lest I come & smite the earth with a Curse, Now what I am after is the knowledge of God & I take my own Course to obtain it, what are we to understand by this in the last days, in the days of Noah God destroyed the world by a flood & has promised to destroy it by fire in the last days but before it took place Elijah should first come & turn the hearts of the Fathers to the Children &c" - Joseph Smith according to the Journal of Wilford Woodruff
No where in the three Facsimiles does it mention. Abraham. The Shabaka orgin 19-25th dynasty Two main divisions. Upper and lower Egypt Ptah and Horus unite to bring unification The text stresses Menphis where the unification takes place No Abraham mention Then the creation myth memphite theology Nothing to do with Abraham
You weren't paying attention to the apologetic argument at the very beginning of the video! Bruce Porter's argument is that facsimile 2 is _not supposed to say_ what Joseph Smith said it said. He's is saying that Joseph Smith provided a _meaning_ of it, not an inter-lingual translation. You need to deal with _that_ argument. In order to rebut Porter's claim, you need to demonstrate that Joseph Smith _intended to make_ an inter-lingual translation of the facsimiles. My qualm with what Porter is saying is that apologists will dismiss the words of Joseph Smith or twist them in order to make a case for him not giving or intending to give an inter-lingual translation of the Egyptian scrolls, which includes this hypocephalus. But in other situations, they absolutely rely on Joseph's words, even the the specific vocabulary he uses, in order to make a case for him not giving or intending to give an inter-lingual translation of the Egyptian scrolls. They're engaged in a double standard with their arguments. It's not honest scholarship.
@@ThomasJDavis I agree with you. I can't believe the spinning on the facsimiles What about the text. Egyptian Human Sacrifices. The only HS was early Dynasty called Retainer sacrifice where the King died and his close servant would be poison or strangled and his body would be placed by the king. But this only lasted till the second Dynasty. The Egyptians were very Civilized people. Pagan but Civilized . I can't believe he baits his audience with Joseph of Egypt at the end of his talk . Is that just another explanation ? What a Maroon
I think you're both straining at gnats. The fact an uneducated man such as Joseph Smith was able to grasp and share what he did on the subject, without any formal schooling, is amazing.
Explanation, translation, inspiration, anyway you cut the pie, Didn't he (JS) try to accurately give us the accounts of what it stated on the scrolls and pretty much had nothing todo with what he "explained" or "translated" according to scholars on egiptology?.
The Book of Abraham was lost in a museum fire. All we have is equivalent to the first page. The outer portion of the scroll was so badly deteriorated that it had to be glued to cardboard. No one thought the sensen text had any importance, apparently, since they made no attempt to preserve it. The facsimilies were the important part that needed to be preserved. So the real question is what did Joseph Smith know about the facsimilies, and what do scholars know? It should be noted right off that these facsimilies are not typical at all. For one thing, most facsimilies are about death and resurrection, with the recently departed either naked or wrapped in mummy bandages. Here we have someone who is fully clothed, and apparently struggling with the priest. He hasn't been embalmed. He is alive. In the original, the priest is actually standing between the man's legs. Some have questioned whether the knife was in fact a feather, but close examination does not reveal a feather. Recently evidence surfaced that the Egyptians did practice human sacrifice, on the lion couches, and for precisely the crime for which Abraham would have been convicted - challenging the Egyptian religion.
@@Cabledeluz1977 Actually, the Book of Breathings or sensen text is a religious text, and it wasn't uncommon for other religious texts to be joined with it in a funerary papyrus. It doesn't hurt the case at all that a Book of Breathings was joined with the Book of Abraham. In fact, the Book of Abraham refers to the fascimilies as being at the beginning of the document, inferring that they weren't side by side. There is no point at all in telling us where an illustration is, if it is on the same page. Eye witness accounts describe the scroll as being from 20 to 40 feet long - much longer than the page or two needed for a sensen text. Sadly, all we have is the badly deteriorated outer leaf of the scroll, which was glued to cardboard to preserve it. That was the only thing that saved it from the museum fire. Somewhere along the way, the two were separated, and the bulk of the scroll sold off.
@@robertrosskopf4641 ALSO THERE ARE THREE OTHER BOOKS RELATED TO ABRAHAM THAT USE THE ANCIENT EGYPTIAN BOOK OF THE DEAD TO TELL THE LIFE OF ABRAHAM ... HOW DID JOSEPH SMITH GET IT RIGHT UNLESS DIVINE REVELATION?
It's a dog and pony show There is nothing on that Hypocephalus about Abraham It was for Sheshong. About his life and the good. He did the incantations come from the Book of the dead and the other half is about his journey to the duat Nothing about Kolob That wood carving goes back to the Ptolemaic Era 300 bc to 200ad The Egyptians hated the Hebrews Why would they be buried.with a Hebrew religious text r? That's like digging up your President Monson and finding a Watchtower in his hands Now their lying and ignoring the truth. Peace
@@binren3984 If I cannot prove you completely wrong about the book of Abraham I'll apologize to the entire world. See my new upload titled Book of Abraham part 9. By me.
Strange, isn't it? Strange that after all of these years it has become known the translation/explanation from the obvious true prophet Joseph Smith was never supposed to concur with the one from that of the Egyptologists.
It's two separate languages....no it's two separate forms of writing the same language. Hieratics is basically the everyday cursive of hieroglyphics...also to say that we know what it says but not what it means is absurd. The whole point of writing is to convey meaning and any language that fails to do so is like knowing what a cow sounds like but not what the moo means i.e. worthless to those who are not on the same wavelength. So you say JS used these as a catalyst to interpret.... Though in early publication he refers in his preface of the work as it being a translation of said piec. The problem is if we go back to the cow mooing analogy; JS basically said I will be able to interpret exactly what the cow said...and then does so. Now let us say that a group of veterinarians and ranchers comes in looks at the cow and says that cow is mooing because her udders are full and she needs milked....her udders are indeed full so the correct interpretation of the moo isn't based on what the cow says...I need milked... But rather what when actually means...that is the end goal of her mooing is to be milked but not by the people but rather the intent of her mooing is to call in her calf so that it may drink. In the same way JS neither interpreted the meaning nor the intent of the papyrus so fully proves this to be a fraud
Your analogy of the cow, misses the whole point. If you disagree with Joseph Smith's singularity on a particular point of translation, meaning or interpretation, what will you dispute next? The whole basis of what the ancients in Egypt actually knew, and tried to emulate. Figuratively, that would take an eternity. And that, my friend, is the whole point. May the scales of justice, weigh well in your favour.
This stuff is way over your head. I suggest you start by reading the Book of Mormon. It will bring you closer to God. If, after you read it, you ask God sincerely in prayer, in the name of his Son, if it was not translated by the power of God, he will manifest the truth of it to you, if you are willing to do as he directs.
Google Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) youtube. EGYPTOLOGISTS and ANTI-MORMONS thoroughly DEBUNKED for assuming Joseph Smith was supposed to translate like an egyptologist.
see evidence why Joseph Smith was converting what the Egyptians counterfeited back into a biblical timeline. Link UTube video titled (BOA ep 16) by Paul Gregersen to get there
Anything = Anything = Anything What if we played that Fast And Loose with chemistry, or nuclear physics. Science would be a great big steaming pile of horse biscuits--and, we could smother them with gravy, and feast on them!!!
The embrace of clothing also implies that the spiritual man is a son of God but the natural man is an enemy of God. The animals do not make it wear clothing. So before Adam and Eve left the garden they were covered with clothing made of skins ..they were endowed to be able to survive in the cold world outside of paradise...
As a person who isn't in America....and a Trump fan... i find it hard to justify his selfish decision to buy 90% of the worlds supply of drug remdisivir
MARK CHAD HAHAHA HOW MUCH DID YOU PAY FOR THE ANTI MORMON BOOK YOU BOUGHT THAT TOLD THAT LIE? SIDNEY RIGDON MEET MORMONS AFTER THE BOOK OF MORMON WAS PUBLISHED. NOT BEFORE..... YOU GOT SUCKERED PAL
@Mark Chad I believe that one by the name of Paul Gregersen stated that ''we don't have the longer scroll the Book of Abraham came from, though we know how Joseph Smith translated by using a numerical system''
Bruce Porter has a lot of good and interesting information but early on in the video he says something I strongly disagree with. 2:27 - 2:47 Claims that Joseph Smith could not and did not translate the plates for the Book of Mormon, that the plates were just a catalyst for receiving revelation. 2:35 "when he got the Book of Mormon we know that he hardly ever even looked at the plates" Oh really? How do we "know" this? By some inconsistent statements made by the apostate David Whitmer who was never given any part in the translation process or used the Urim and Thummim? I think Brother Porter needs to consult with Oliver Cowdery who actually attempted to use the Urim and Thummim to translate a part of the golden plates. Oliver found out (was told) that the U&T does not work until activated by first using his brain. And how is he to use his brain without looking at what needs to be translated? Of course I'm talking about D&C sections 8 and 9. "behold...you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right,". Does Bruce think that Joseph Smith was held to a different standard than what was given to Oliver? - ironically through Joseph? Unlike section 7 where no papyrus was given and it had to be direct revelation when you are given the record you have to learn it to translate it or of course you will fail as did Oliver. Joseph Smith spent a lot of time learning the characters before beginning to translate. After starting the translation how many times would he need to see the character for "and it came to pass" before he did not need the Urim and Thummin or even google translate to get those words? I think Bruce would be more accurate if he speculated "when he got far in the Book of Mormon we know that he hardly ever even looked at the Urim and Thummim" As a side note the translate with face in a hat thing and chocolate stone things are absolutely false - I'm sure Mark Hofmann is still snickering in his prison cell over the traction those have gotten. No doubt Joseph Smith looked at each and every character in the unsealed part of the gold plates. The same would apply to the small plates of Nephi that he later received and translated (by Urim and Thummim again) which now make up the first part of the Book of Mormon instead of the lost manuscript pages.
Have any of you asked yourselves "If this Book of Abraham is actually true, why then are the ONLY "researchers" in the world who make the case for it is LDS apologists and BYU professors?" Were it really true, then any halfway smart Egyptologist would grab on to it and make himself a name in his field of study. That simply hasn't happened. The basic problem is how many logical contortions and "what ifs" that have to be accomplished to justify the LDS church's assertion that it is a real work of Abraham, and that it contains truth. The bottom line is that a belief in the supernatural is nothing more than a belief in magic. When magic is the force that the universe works on, then what can't be believed and justified. The day that some LDS church priesthood holders gives a blessing to an amputee and the missing limb regrows, or raises a dead person back to life, then I will take this stuff seriously. Until then, this church is on the same barren ground as every other church on Earth. It talks a good game, but it has nothing to back up it's claims. One of the most important things true believers never ask themselves in earnest is whether it is really true. A burning in the bosom is a really poor substitute for demonstrable and repeatable evidence. Ask yourself just how convenient it was for God to take those gold plates up to Heaven (Joseph didn't really use them anyway, just his rock in a hat), but somehow allowed the papyri to survive and be scrutinized by people who can actually translate Egyptian.
You definitely qualify as a Hook Line And Sinker Mor(m)on! Accept it for what it is: Joseph Smith was like all the rest of the Post Apostles Of Jesus Christ ''Prophets"! All of them "Err in vision, and stumble in judgement!''
It will never cease to amaze me that otherwise seemingly intelligent people can continue to "explain" how pagan funerary texts dated from around the 1st century AD could be considered to be "writings of Abraham by his own hand", and accept those pagan funerary texts as Christian scripture.
There were two scrolls. One was the large scroll that the text of the Book of Abraham came from. The other is the small scroll which contained the Book of Breathings along with other writings and facsimilies. The large scroll was burned in a museum fire in Chicago. The small scroll (Book of Breathings) was retained by Emma Smith and eventually sold to a collector that eventually landed it in a museum in New York. The naysayers which you appear to be deriving your source from will tell you that the facsimilies of the Book of Abraham were found in the small scroll, therefore that must have been the supposed source of the Book of Abraham. In reality, the facsimilies are not related to the Book of Abraham (Nibley). They are independent facsimilies which Joseph Smith gave explanations of as Bruce Porter explains in his video. My recommendation to you is that you focus your efforts on bringing people closer to Christ. Trying to discredit the prophet Joseph Smith you will eventually find is a task similar to what Paul learned - it is kicking against the pricks. God Bless.
DESKJOCKIE IT WILL NEVER CEASE TO AMAZE ME HOW IGNORANT PEOPLE LIKE YOU KNOW SO LITTLE. THE ETHIOPIAN CHRISTIANS USED THE SAME EGYPTIAN TEXTS IN THE 1ST CENTURY TO TELL EVENTS IN THE LIFE OF ABRAHAM. BEST STUDY UP.
I know the apologists' story about the two scrolls and how one was destroyed in the Chicago fire. The fact remains that the Facsimiles that have been published in every edition of the Pearl of Great Price have been proven to be fraudulent, made up stories by Joseph Smith. He took pagan funerary scrolls from grave-robbed Egyptians and pretended to 'translate' them into "Christian" scripture. He got the story wrong, he got the names wrong, he got the genders wrong, and now that this has become completely apparent, the only recourse the Mormon church has is to fall back on a worn-out line that has no credibility whatever.
@deskjockie49, It would serve you well to focus your time on bringing people closer to Christ than to spend your time angrily criticizing other Christians when there beliefs to do not match up to yours.
He translated those as well as the Kinderhook plates. All of which he made up. Why was anything needed if he did not use them or they had no meaning? It’s a fraud!
@@shawnbradford2243 It is a big conspiracy against Mormons, a big conspiracy against Mormons mainly. As you all try to keep those who are not LDS from joining. Therefore, why would it be just a conspiracy against Mormons? The power company was in violation of every human decency law. I know of an anti-Mormon christian that backs up them who were in violation of every human decency law. Steven Price is his name, he backed up the wicked people at Gossner's in Logan, the same kind of people that were at Gossner's were the same kind of people that were affiliated with Utah Power and Light, now called Rocky Mountain Power, A.K.A. PacifiCorp.
@@shawnbradford2243 Steven Price (my cousin from Castle Dale not to be confused with my other cousin Steven Price), Wade Lake, Bobby Cologie, Brian Heaps, Michael Willardson (Willardsen), Donald Huntington (my step dad), Roger Huntington (half brother), Verda Carol Price Huntington (deceased mother), Billy Price (cousin), Mike Cologie etc were affiliated with Utah Power and Light. Those are some of the wicked people that took part in the attacks made on me in Emery County in the 70's and 80s.
@@shawnbradford2243 Dan Schultz, Joel Ellery, Drew Israesen, Edward Munoz, Gordy, Kevin Ashby and the receptionist are the seven I know that took part in that attack and unjust termination of me at Gossner in Logan, Utah. There had to have been more than those seven in that attack made against me on the 4th month of the year 2000.
@@jennywight9119 Christ gives the keys of the Gospel there is no mention of priesthood order . Christ receives the Melchizedek Priesthood order after He ascends to Heaven. The two duties of Melchizedek are gift and sacrifice The sacrifice Christ died on the Cross The Gift We can have eternal life Melchizedek is a diviine appointment Only Christ holds the Melchizedek Priesthood it is nontransferable The Mystery of Melchizedek appears on Genesis 14:18-20 and in psalms 110 Also NT Hebrews 7 Melchizedek is a Heavenly order . God gave our Lord. This Priesthood . You have to be King and a High Priest. that order goes to Jesus Christ . The Apostles never held the Melchizedek Priesthood Mormon Theology believes Smith was given the Levitical Priesthood. It doesn't make sense that you would need that Priesthood There was no need. Christ finished that Priesthood when he died on the Cross. Jesus was the Perfect Sacrifice . When Jesus died on the Cross that put an end to the Levitical/ Aaronic Priesthood Jesus is now our Mediator to the God on High. Only Jesus Christ has the Order of Melchizedek ..Christ is Our King and High Priest Forever
just listen to bruce porters apologist explanation, " he couldn't translate", if joseph smith was a prophet he could TRANSLATE anything, otherwise why the hell would he be a prophet? Why could he not translate with the power of God. if God is all knowing, wise, omnipotent and, chose Joseph to be his prophet in the last days, why would he not give him this gift? Open your eyes, he translates the BoM by looking into a hat with a stone, hahahahaha when he had the supposed plates in his posession? just listen to the absurdity of that statement, " oh i have the plates but, i'll just use this hat and stone, that i found in the bottom of a well, too translate." if he didnt use the plates how the hell does he know that he got it right, wouldn't the source material be a better way to translate? so many holes in bruce porters fantasy. egyptologist have debunked the PoGP facsimilies. the problem with the church is they will never admit they were caught in a lie.Modern science and the Rosetta stone have proven joseph to be a liar and, as such the church is built on that lie.
Joey Carter you forgot he also had the nephite interpreters (large spectacles of diamond set in a silver bow attached to a breastplate) that were saved for thousands off years with the gold plates so that he could hide them in the woods and stick a rock in his hat 🤣🤣🤣🤣. Or so he could put them under a cloth and let people touch them(and somehow they were the size and weight of lead sheets 🤣🤣😂). At that point people who believe this don’t care about facts!
@@shawnbradford2243 hahahaha I know, i forgot the mention the urim and thumim, just another nail in the coffin to the apologists argument. Sooooo, I also wonder why he didn't use the U&T to translate the Pearl of Great Price? Oh that's right God had already taken it back, as well as the Gold plates. But wait, why couldn't he use the rock in the hat trick? i mean he kept the rock but, some how God didn't forsee that he would need the U&T to translate the PoGP? I smell major fraud and, I actually bought into it, served a mission and other church positions after returning but, eyes wide open now.
Joey Carter did you know the term Urim and thummim in Mormonism is an anachronistic change of calling the interpreters or spectacles to make them less treasure seeker. It wasn’t used until about 1835. Ask a Mormon about its history and they assume is was always called Urim and thummim and don’t really know what that was in the OT and how the interpreters/spectacles/peep stone were nothing like the Urim and thummim of the Old Testament in appearance or use. Some crazy stuff!
@@shawnbradford2243 Yeah the LDS church gets the Urim and Thummim totally wrong, biblically it was worn by the high priest for various purposes such as, is someone a sinner, to inquire of the lord, and revealation. No biblical mention of it ever being used too interpret scripture or languages. The breast plate also had 12 precious stone, each representing a different tribe of Israel and the Urim and Thummim fastened to it. Never any mention of magical spectacles used in conjunction with it anywhere in scripture.
If the papyrus was nothing more than a catalyst then what you’re saying is that really we never needed the gold plates at all. All that was needed with some kind of catalyst. Perhaps a shampoo bottle with the rear label written in a foreign language.
Masters in Ancient Near East; speaks and/or writes 5 languages, two of which that are dead. I know him personally and his intellect, understanding, knowledge, and testimony are absolutely solid.
Jimmy two toes, we get it. No one is forcing you to believe. Perhaps you would be happier discrediting the Catholic church, or indeed a raft of protestant faiths. Incidentally, what are your credentials, and is your hat big enough to accommodate your inflated ego?
Porter why are you not telling the truth . Abraham and Joseph stories were oral transmissions Moses wrote the Pentateuch not Abram or Joseph. Get your facts straight. The header in the BoA Smith says he translated the papyri.
I would trust Bruce Porter to deliver Mormon apologetics and the quickest route to the Golden Corral. I would not trust him to honestly assess/appraise the historicity of the Book of Abraham.
So now you make up a reason for the existence of your temples. You make altars on high points and a temple needs to surround the altar where “covenants are made”. May I remind you that Christ did away with temples other than turning our bodies into them to house the Holy Spirit. He has brought and finalized the one and ONLY covenant ever needed for all eternity. So the very existence of your temples is anti biblical and therefore heretical.
@@kkdoc7864 When did God tell you there was ONE and ONLY ONE temple? And when did He tell you He destroyed it? I think you're making some assumptions here.
Throw away any reasonable thought, then build a foundation of fictional illusion and believe in it with all your heart.Mental gymnastics and confirmation bias rule the day. Then throw away your own brains, replace them with quotes from old pasty white men and thru prayer and sacrifice you will find yourself on your knees bent over an alter pledging your life and your means and talents to a group of people you will be lucky to ever meet in person. Although they know nothing about you, pledge your life to their words and wisdom. Then on your death bed donate your property to the church and whatever stock's you have and die in peace knowing Joseph Smith will be sitting next to Christ judging you according to your righteous work's.
God's wisdom is ever above the wisdom of man. The book of Mormon is written and translated through the power of God. Since it is created through the blessings of God, it is not shocking to know that even the experts and the learned couldn't disproved the Book of Mormon. It is still wise to stand on faith than with just sight.
Yes the presentation is set up and the tone of the presented as scholarly then subjective opinions are expressed as truth. It seems this is hat Joseph did when he said he was translating even if it was by the power of God, it was still deceptively presented to the church. Sorry folks it is what it s, not what you want it to be.
@@Sayheybrother8 Who cares if he used a hat, or some stones, or if he hung upside down like a bat, or if he planked atop the roof of his house? Why does the method of translation matter so much to people?
@@Sayheybrother8 Because most people in today's day see these things as incredibly weird, and their prejudgments may stand in the way of finding the truth. I'm sure people though Moses was a nutcase for hitting rocks with this staff to bring out water, or that Naaman was to wash several times in a filthy river to be healed. Instead they gave more broad definitions of how the process happened, which is actually true, because the phrase "by the gift and power of God" is how it happened, regardless of the method. And to say the church try to hide it is stupid, it's always been part of the record of how things came to be. That detail wasn't and shouldn't have and still shouldn't be the focus of what came about from it all. Any earnest person reading the Book of Mormon, Mormon or not, cannot help but want to be a better person and live closer to God. If it was all inspired by Satan or if Joseph Smith was some kind of conman, why would the results of all of his efforts end in people wanting to adhere more fully to keep God's commandments and serve Him and help other people? Getting caught up in details of how things occurred is just a distraction from the actual important things that came about.
LDS are the winners when it comes to redefining what words mean. Salvation is not what Christians say it is, atonement is not what Christians say it is, Etc. Now they are saying the facsimiles interpreted by JS was NOT a translation, but an “explanation”. Nice try, but laughable.
I bet if we passed around 250 paper to your church and 250 papers to my church and had people give anonymous definitions of being saved salvation . We would get 450 plus different definitions
@@Misa_Susaki We have people who can read the papyri.They don't say what Joseph Smith said they do. It's a fabrication and your prophet is a fraud. Game over. Game over.
This cannot be any more clearer for those that love the Lord 🙏🙏🙏 thank you!
I wish all who are endowed in the LDS Temple would watch this. There is so much more to understand and embrace. This is extremely motivating and comforting. Thank you Bruce!
Nothing that we have learned in the last hundred years has called into question the sacred rites of the temple. Quite the opposite. The early Christian church had similar rites, and a form of them were practiced in Egypt. Joseph Smith actually restored something important that was lost.
@@robertrosskopf4641 ''Joseph Smith actually restored something important that was lost.'' Yes, I believe that one by the name of Paul Gregersen said that Joseph Smith received revelation to translate the counterfeits (Egyptian characters) in reverse back to a biblical context.
@@richardholmes7199 He may have had some initial thoughts, but no actual translation was ever made. There is no evidence that he ever used his gift as seer to decipher them.
@@robertrosskopf4641 I believe Paul Gregersen did say something along those lines. I believe he said it was more of an explanation than a translation.
@@robertrosskopf4641 What we are now aware of is the assessments from the Egyptolocal field have been demonstrated as being all based on false assumptions on translation.
I am back again to understand more about the facsimiles and BoA. Thanks so much for this video, it really debunks the anti-Mormon and critics about the BoA, it make them and their arguments look like children’s play. This is the true church of Jesus Christ. Wish there is more LDS members would see this video.
@borrowed tomb The Egyptologists and the anti-Mormon Christians have been proven dead wrong.
To create is not to copy. I loved the whole lot! Keep posting plz. Thank you
Amazing work. I learned so much from your video. Hope there is more to come.
Great lecture for those who study world religions.
So... can the Pharoah trace his Y-DNA to Noah? Is this a good way to trace other lines too?
Is there any significance in noting that the name of the god "Ani" is not found in the Bible but is found in the Book of Mormon as "Ani-Anti" (Alma 21:11), which claims to have been written in reformed Egyptian?
Interesting.
The Papyri were funeral texts.
When we bury people, we put things in with them.
It doesn't mean that's the only use for those things. But technically they would call those funeral items.
The same could be said about specific Bibles buried with people in various graves... but to limit Bibles to being funeral texts is a limited explanation of their use. Same thing here... they are showing pieces of various ceremonies and with various levels of orthodoxy and detail but always in the same order, passed in it's imperfect form to their lineages.
@@tuvoca825well stated! 🙌
Do you know what Bruce Porter's credentials are?
@@azmachinist2421 Yup, a side show of idiots running their mouths all agreeing with each other. Secretly wanting to bring polygamy back. Remember when Gittum Young started a new alphabet based off the celestial language. Good thing Mormonism isn't a cult or that would be weird.
Well, now knowing this person is biased, I am out. Thank God i didn't waste my time.
Good show
I am blown away!
More latter-day saint scholarship ua-cam.com/play/PLWUQNBU8UOlbgFOora2XtolEkcUgNDFFU.html
Fascinating lecture. Thank you.
What is the book of Joseph?
Is it possible to get a transcript of this presentation? It holds so many critical points that I would like to refer back to as I study,
1) Left click on the three dots at the bottom right of the video, and left click on "Show transcript."
2) Left click on the three vertical dots at the top of the Transcript, and left click on "Toggle timestamps."
3) Left click and hold the mouse button down at the top of the Transcript and drag to the bottom of the Transcript in order to highlight the entire Transcript.
4) Right click on the highlighted Transcript text and left click on "copy."
5) Paste to a text program like Notepad or Microsoft Word.
Interesting.
Saturday - August 22, 2020.
Great lecture.
Thank you for this, I have looked at these and the existing temples in Egypt and sought to know the correlation. This is so intriguing and informative for those who have gone through the Temple.
Wow. this brought to light so much information I did not know! Thanks Bruce!
I have enjoyed this beautiful lesson very much and hope you will do more. I do wish you would read a little slower for those of us that don't keep up so well anymore. I have loved every second of your talk. Thank you so much.
I agree - sometimes my ears don’t listen as fast as he speaks! So much to assimilate! Love his podcasts!
Pharoah, "seeking earnestly to imitate"I like this.I have always viewed the facsimile as containing archtypical figures. where direct translation would not get back to the true meaing..
One by the name of Paul Gregersen, the one who debunked the egyptologists and the anti-Mormons by demonstrating Joseph Smith's translation was never supposed to concur with the one from that of the egyptological field to begin with, covers that on his first video.
Book of Abraham
Translation or Invention? www.utlm.org/newsletters/pdfnewsletters/123saltlakecitymessenger.pdf
And by your faithfulness you will know the the truth of these things. It will become a realization! The spirit found in the temple prepares us for Celestial life. We become accustomed to the celestial light and glory and know what it feels like. We gain a portion of that light and knowledge. As our faith increases and we become more sanctified in the the Lord. We will be brought closer and closer to Him. (Until we enter his presence and enjoy eternal life). Thank you for your research and sharing your knowledge. The gospel today is patterned after the ancient gospel. That makes sense. The ancient gospel and the gospel today is patterned after the heavenly gospel or government of God and so it is eternal.
When was this lecture given? I’m looking for more current content. Though this is fascinating
Thank you so much for these illuminating teachings. I am so very grateful
What a fascinating presentation
Wow! Amazing, thank you so much! I have been confused for decades by all things Egyptian, knowing that there was a higher meaning than what I understood. I learned a lot from this, thank you for this gift of knowledge.
Notice how he falsely tries to make you think that Joseph Smith mistakenly labeled the Egyptian God "OF" Elkanah as literally being Elkanah?
Or, the God "OF" Korish was somehow actually being Korish himself! Do you dare even recognize how you are having your intelligence insulted here? Would you say the "God OF Abraham" was Abraham? Or, the God of Jacob was named Jacob? Prophets have always used this prophetic type of terminology to avoid the repeating of God's name over and over in scripture! If you say "the God of Abraham" everybody knows it is referring directly to "Jehovah" and NOT Abraham in which you were referring too!
Joseph Smith never ever said the God of Elkanah was named Elkanah like Dr. Ritner clearly gets this fact all wrong! Read Joseph's explanation closely in the book of Abraham, he only refers to this subject as the four corners of the earth in his translations, and no more! This whole subject has become an anti Mormon echo chamber of misdirection. Let me disentangle it for you. Dr. Ritner and these anti Mormons convert Joseph's motives into a false narrative using the wrong lens to focus your attention on the wrong emphasis.
They obviously think that you are stupid and hope you will never notice the correct textual meaning while they try to make it say something else that it clearly doesn't say at all ! Why? Because they hate the church and constantly resort to new trickery.
Actually Dr. Porter and Dr. Gee are correct by their associating those canopic jar names with the four corners of the earth only in their videos. However, later even they somehow got this off the track. But, the four corners of the EARTH are associated with the God of Elkanah and the others. The Gods OF EGYPT mean the same thing as saying the God "OF "Israel identifying literally Israel itself. You don't need to say the actual name of that God at all to refer directly to it ! ! ! The God of Elkanah is talking about a name of a place or person like unto the God of Israel or likewise the God of Egypt or the God "OF" some other entity. If it meant Elkanah was the name of the god then it would obviously name it "the God-Elkanah" and not the god "OF" Elkanah.
Why did Joseph Smith not ever use Egyptian names? A true prophet would not have associated false God's having fictitious fake Egyptian names becoming legitimized in holy scripture anyway. In Doctrine & Covenants Joseph Smith never ever names Mars or Jupiter or Venus as he describes planets or solar systems. The same reason no prophet would EVER legitimize pagan God's like Mars or Venus in any holy scripture. Instead a true prophet would use gospel related Hebrew names that God sanctioned to describe God's creations and never adapt Idalatrous names coming from man made Greek or Egyptian myths. These guys in this video figure you are stupid. It's all an echo chamber of misdirection. This guy posted Abraham UA-cam videos clearly disentangle these lies easily. To see this click UA-cam video titled " Book of Abraham part 13" By P. Gregersen. Take notice, how no church critic will dare respond to his objections to their above video. . Why? I'
Thank you Brother.
There is but one hill.
So deep, so profound.
Very enlightening.
That’s because you’re stupid
Finally. I've been looking for this explanation since I was a teenager
I believe that only the above Bruce Porter and one by the name of Paul Gregersen demonstrate that it was more of an explanation than a translation. Paul Gregersen debunked the Egyptologists back in the year 2014 by demonstrating that the translation/explanation from Joseph Smith was never supposed to be seen as being translated the same way the Egyptologists say, the anti-Mormons will not admit it though.
@@azmachinist2421 Why antagonize? If people are happy believing if what you perceive to be silly fairy tales, why not just let them? Why ruin their happiness, even if it's fabricated? So more people can be like you? Even if the whole of religion is a big lie, I'd rather have pretended and fabricated happiness than not. Let people alone and live their lives however they want if it's not harming you in any way. Sad.
@@azmachinist2421 If I cannot prove Smith translated the book of Abraham correctly I'll apologize to the entire world. See my new upload titled "Book of Abraham part 9. By me.
There's a great book by an LDS author that shows that there's perfect harmony between the prophetic statements concerning the garden of Eden being in Missouri and the Old Testament account concerning the garden of Eden. It's called Canaan, Babylon, and Egypt A Comparative Theological Analysis on Creation sold by Eborn Books.
No. The ordinances DO matter to fulfill all righteousness and must be administered by those with the keys. It isn't just about knowledge. It is always preperatory, yes... BUT the ordinances are absolutely essential as part of the work for the living and dead. Careful.
Sacred places outside the temples, evidenced by mankind's efforts to worship, since time began are simple, but exquisite. Worship locations unearthed and built by the Druids, are just as spirit filled as we hope out temples possess.
Nature and groves can be just as holy. Many very important encounters with heavenly beings occurred with the Prophet Joseph. Like the First Vision.
This is a fabulous retort to anyone suggesting that we're the only ones who purport becoming like God (which is silly, else how would anyone model themselves after Christ?).
Absolutely Educational and Beautiful!
Where can one view common funerary texts?
We will see who's right on judgement day....
@borrowed tomb Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) youtube''. That video PROVES Joseph Smith was right all along.
@@richardholmes7199
There is no proof in that video, just the numerology of a sick mind. This is a very good series on the Book of Abraham:
ua-cam.com/video/AtJT_xjIgdM/v-deo.html
@@huffdaddy3845 The charge against Joseph Smith is that he is a false prophet because he didn't translate the Book of Abraham Egyptian sensen text papri characters the same way that the egyptologists say they're supposed to be translated like, right? Yes, of course. As you have to maintain this position to have a case. However, was Joseph Smith supposed to translate like an egyptologist would? NO. Therefore, what's the problem?
What a load..
Death; the ultimate experiment.
Slow down and breathe occationally...Good thing I can replay it at half speed.
I'm listening at 1.5. No problem here. He's very clear
According to the book of Jasher, noah’s son Ham whose wife’s name is Egyptus, their sons name is Pharoah The first king of Egypt, subsequently all kings took the title name of Pharoah who would be the king of Egypt.
So are the ordinances that the Egyptians performed merely tradition and will need to be performed again with authority someday - seeing Pharoah did not have the priesthood?
This was my thought too. First, how would
See the answer in video. " Book of Abraham oart 9" by me.
The Shabaka Stone apparently dates from about 800 BC -- ancient, to be sure, but nowhere near being the "oldest written document in the world." The Sumerian and Akkadian cuneiform texts, proto-Elamite, the Shang Dynasty oracle bone texts from China, the Indus Valley inscriptions from South Asia, Linear A, Linear B, and other scripts from the eastern Mediterranean, and all of the the writings from the Egyptian Old and Middle Kingdoms -- just to mention a few examples -- are all far older.
Thank you for sharing this. Wonderful comes to mind.
Idiocy, is what should come to mind, had you not Abdicated your Intelligence!!!
please help 2peter2:4 to 8 is not that scripture, please can you send correction please
The Shabaka Stone information is fascinating! I've not heard about it before. Thanks:)
He wouldn't have Scouts. Man, it's amazing hearing that today when that's no longer something tied to our religion.
Only culturally tied. It was never tied to my religion.
@@rickraybourn7456 Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) you tube''.
Yeah. Scouts was no longer... helpful.
Well said
Pereal of Great Price is my favrite set of scriptures to read.
Love this video. It confirmed things that I had been thinking for a long time, like the correlation between Thoth and Enoch. It helps me see the gospel in existence before the flood and rite after the flood and what was left of it in Egypt by Abrahams time. I took a lot out of it. I just don't like the Trolls in the comment section, which are a little better than terrorist and that's just because they aren't shooting people or blowing them up. Pharasies that have nothing better to do than watch Mormon videos and hate on them. If they hate these videos why watch them? Why aren't they watching uplifting Born Again Christian videos instead. Or does that even exist?
One by the name of Paul Gregersen debunked the egyptologists in 2014. Paul debunked the egyptologists by demonstrating Joseph Smith was never, like the anti-Mormon duplicates and the egyptologists assumed, supposed to translate the egyptian sensen text characters to what the egyptologists say they meant. In other words, Joseph Smith was never supposed to translate like an egyptologist. The assumption that Joseph Smith was supposed to translate like an egyptologist not only debunks the anti-Mormons but also proves they're unintelligent. As the assumption from the anti-Mormons that Joseph Smith was supposed to translate the egyptian sensen text characters to what the egyptologists say they meant would have mean the Mormons believe in jackal gods, Osiris, Anubis. Joseph Smith translated in reverse back to a biblical text, the original. This is proper interpretation. Whereas the anti-Mormon cult assumed Joseph Smith was supposed to translate the characters to what the egyptologists say they meant. Joseph Smith was right, the egyptologists were wrong. Not that the anti-Mormons will admit to it.
Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) youtube''. It's a video from Paul Gregersen. A video demonstrating the anti-Mormon cult were debunked due to their assumption Joseph Smith was supposed to translate the sensen text papyri characters to what the egyptologists say they meant.
Wow - this is spiritual gold. Thank you for this.
Thank you for the great video; I share this wil my LDS-Seekers class. Most become X-LDS after we watch this and talk openly about it.
I find it fascinating how the ordinances of the temple emulate the ancient rituals of the Egyptians through Joseph's telling of Ani and Jews through the Templars then the Masons have been preserved through all these many centuries of apostasy to our day in the last dispensation. People can say Joeseph Smith was wrong for buying and transcribing the papyri and being a Mason but weren't these things necessary as our Prophet and the instrument of God to establish the most valuable ordinances to our day in the fullness of times? I have one question. Would Ani or any Pharaoh have to go through the ritual every time that they went to the holy of holies or was this a one time event before the first time?
Just the tip of the iceberg in Abraham contrast with Egypt. See why Joseph converted what the Egyptians counterfeited back into a biblical timeline. Link UTube video titled (BOA ep 16) by Paul Gregersen to get there
Yes it's a good perspective
In the scripture of Peter. Nowhere does it claim that Peter is The Rock. He is talking about addressing Peter because they were having a conversation. Peter is not the rock upon which the church will be built. Talking about the concept of both Revelation and of the inexorable history of Truth. That is still to this day one of the worst understandings of that scripture. It is completely out of context. I would like to see it transliterated from the Greek. It's probably a bit more explanatory when you talk about the entire conversation they were having about revelation.
He even talks about the three mechanisms, none of which include Peter. Peter is an apostle who brings that story to fruition. But he is not one of the three elements of the Church of Christ. Otherwise you could properly call it the Church of Peter.
You even going to explain all of these things about how Christ has a Livingstone how Christ is a Cornerstone how Christ is the stone disallowed, how Christ is the head of the corner, etc etc etc, but at no time is it explained that the rock is Peter. Don't say Blasphemous things!
Thank you for the semi translation from the Greek wear it again explains how Peter is not the damn Rock B Christ is talking about. He just isn't.
why did the hebrew people that came to america write in Egyptian hieroglyphs instead of in their native hebrew.
The first author in the Book of Mormon (Nephi) says that his parents were good, and that they taught him in the languages of both his father (Hebrew) and the Egyptians (his father was a trader with Egypt)
The Plates of Brass records Nephi returned to Jerusalem to get were written in a short hand form of Egyptian (called Reformed Egyptian) these Plates of Brass were the records of Joseph while he was in Egypt, they were written on and passed down from father to son down to the time right before Nebuchadnezzar, Nephi was asked to return for them so that their family could have scriptures with them as they traveled in the wilderness (a ten year journey)
Nephi (as well as later Book of Mormon authors) says that the short hand form of Egyptian takes up less writing space on the plates than Hebrew does (one symbol conveys an entire meaning rather than spelling out entire meanings with words)
North American Hopewell archeology has found Hebrew writings on cave walls, stone, and Native American artifacts, it appears that for every day transactions (letters, legal documents, etc) Hebrew was used, but then for sacred writings on Plates of Brass or Gold Reformed Egyptian was used, North American archeology is confirming, that the practice of being taught in both languages continued from Nephi, all throughout the entire one thousand year period, right down to the last author Moroni, who is one of the authors, who says that he is writing in Reformed Egyptian, because of lack of space on his Plates of Gold...
I hope I answered your question...
Amazing video. I believe horus represents the ascending seraph... A priest becoming a king as in Zechariah. Peter, James and John represent this order of especial witnesses who take us to the veil and say to the lord through the veil we have been faithful in all things. This is a tremendous confirmation as Horus is the one who does this in the Ani scroll. Horus is the angel of the Lord who is the holy ghost who is the end times Elias who restores all things, fulfills Yom Kippur as the ultimate high priest of Levi, and who calls forth the first resurrection.
@borrowed tomb You're looking at this translation the wrong way. That's what DEBUNKED the Egyptologists. The Egyptologists have been soundly, thoroughly debunked due to their own false assumptions.
@borrowed tomb It's a copy of a copy and so on. This has been covered for years now.
@borrowed tomb By the way, why don't you attempt to debunk my first comment.
The end time Elias is the spirit and power of Elijah (which is the Melchizedek priesthood). From Joseph Smiths own sermon at Nauvoo temple grounds on March 10th 1844. Which explains why our temples have more in common with the temples of Egypt rather than Jerusalem as Bruce Porter explains.
"But if I spend much more time in conversing about the spirit of Elias I shall not have time to do justice to the spirit & power of Elijah, this is the Elias spoken of in the last days & here is the rock upon which many split thinking the time was past in the days of John & Christ & no more to be, but the spirit of Elias was revealed to me & I know it is true therefore I speak with boldness for I know verily my doctrine is true. Now for Elijah, the spirit power & calling of Elijah is that ye have power to hold the keys of the revelations ordinances, oricles powers & endowments of the fulness of the Melchezedek Priesthood & of the Kingdom of God on the Earth & to receive, obtain & perform all the ordinances belonging to the Kingdom of God even unto the sealing of the hearts of the hearts fathers unto the children & the hearts of the children unto the fathers even those who are in heaven. Malachi says I will send Elijah before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come & He shall turn the hearts of the Fathers to the Children and the hearts of the Children to the Fathers lest I come & smite the earth with a Curse, Now what I am after is the knowledge of God & I take my own Course to obtain it, what are we to understand by this in the last days, in the days of Noah God destroyed the world by a flood & has promised to destroy it by fire in the last days but before it took place Elijah should first come & turn the hearts of the Fathers to the Children &c" - Joseph Smith according to the Journal of Wilford Woodruff
No where in the three Facsimiles does it mention. Abraham.
The Shabaka orgin 19-25th dynasty
Two main divisions. Upper and lower Egypt
Ptah and Horus unite to bring unification
The text stresses Menphis where the unification takes place
No Abraham mention
Then the creation myth memphite theology
Nothing to do with Abraham
You weren't paying attention to the apologetic argument at the very beginning of the video!
Bruce Porter's argument is that facsimile 2 is _not supposed to say_ what Joseph Smith said it said. He's is saying that Joseph Smith provided a _meaning_ of it, not an inter-lingual translation. You need to deal with _that_ argument. In order to rebut Porter's claim, you need to demonstrate that Joseph Smith _intended to make_ an inter-lingual translation of the facsimiles.
My qualm with what Porter is saying is that apologists will dismiss the words of Joseph Smith or twist them in order to make a case for him not giving or intending to give an inter-lingual translation of the Egyptian scrolls, which includes this hypocephalus. But in other situations, they absolutely rely on Joseph's words, even the the specific vocabulary he uses, in order to make a case for him not giving or intending to give an inter-lingual translation of the Egyptian scrolls.
They're engaged in a double standard with their arguments. It's not honest scholarship.
@@ThomasJDavis I agree with you. I can't believe the spinning on the facsimiles
What about the text. Egyptian Human Sacrifices. The only HS was early Dynasty called Retainer sacrifice where the King died and his close servant would be poison or strangled and his body would be placed by the king. But this only lasted till the second Dynasty. The Egyptians were very Civilized people. Pagan but Civilized
. I can't believe he baits his audience with Joseph of Egypt at the end of his talk . Is that just another explanation ?
What a Maroon
I think you're both straining at gnats. The fact an uneducated man such as Joseph Smith was able to grasp and share what he did on the subject, without any formal schooling, is amazing.
@@azmachinist2421 Yet he was more successful than you or I will ever be.
@@azmachinist2421 That's not helping your argument lol. He did more in 38 (actually) years, than you would in a hundred.
Explanation, translation, inspiration, anyway you cut the pie, Didn't he (JS) try to accurately give us the accounts of what it stated on the scrolls and pretty much had nothing todo with what he "explained" or "translated" according to scholars on egiptology?.
The Book of Abraham was lost in a museum fire. All we have is equivalent to the first page. The outer portion of the scroll was so badly deteriorated that it had to be glued to cardboard. No one thought the sensen text had any importance, apparently, since they made no attempt to preserve it. The facsimilies were the important part that needed to be preserved. So the real question is what did Joseph Smith know about the facsimilies, and what do scholars know? It should be noted right off that these facsimilies are not typical at all. For one thing, most facsimilies are about death and resurrection, with the recently departed either naked or wrapped in mummy bandages. Here we have someone who is fully clothed, and apparently struggling with the priest. He hasn't been embalmed. He is alive. In the original, the priest is actually standing between the man's legs. Some have questioned whether the knife was in fact a feather, but close examination does not reveal a feather. Recently evidence surfaced that the Egyptians did practice human sacrifice, on the lion couches, and for precisely the crime for which Abraham would have been convicted - challenging the Egyptian religion.
@@Cabledeluz1977 Actually, the Book of Breathings or sensen text is a religious text, and it wasn't uncommon for other religious texts to be joined with it in a funerary papyrus. It doesn't hurt the case at all that a Book of Breathings was joined with the Book of Abraham. In fact, the Book of Abraham refers to the fascimilies as being at the beginning of the document, inferring that they weren't side by side. There is no point at all in telling us where an illustration is, if it is on the same page. Eye witness accounts describe the scroll as being from 20 to 40 feet long - much longer than the page or two needed for a sensen text. Sadly, all we have is the badly deteriorated outer leaf of the scroll, which was glued to cardboard to preserve it. That was the only thing that saved it from the museum fire. Somewhere along the way, the two were separated, and the bulk of the scroll sold off.
@@robertrosskopf4641 LOL.
LOL...
@@robertrosskopf4641 ALSO THERE ARE THREE OTHER BOOKS RELATED TO ABRAHAM THAT USE THE ANCIENT EGYPTIAN BOOK OF THE DEAD TO TELL THE LIFE OF ABRAHAM ... HOW DID JOSEPH SMITH GET IT RIGHT UNLESS DIVINE REVELATION?
he sounds like an evangelist.
not the evangelists I've listened to.
What Power!
It's a dog and pony show
There is nothing on that Hypocephalus about Abraham
It was for Sheshong. About his life and the good. He did the incantations come from the Book of the dead and the other half is about his journey to the duat
Nothing about Kolob
That wood carving goes back to the Ptolemaic Era 300 bc to 200ad
The Egyptians hated the Hebrews
Why would they be buried.with a Hebrew religious text r?
That's like digging up your President Monson and finding a Watchtower in his hands
Now their lying and ignoring the truth.
Peace
@@binren3984 If I cannot prove you completely wrong about the book of Abraham I'll apologize to the entire world. See my new upload titled Book of Abraham part 9. By me.
@@paulgregersen3570 I will take a look at your part 9, my friend.
Peace in Christ
All I can see is the pink star fish from spong Bob.
As a fairly objective viewer, this is not very compelling. There are more compelling videos out there though
you should try to talk faster bruce!
Just a tip, you can also increase the speed of the video, 1,25x, 1,5x, 1,75x and even 2x :)
@@MrSuHwak I think he is being ironic.
The guy is talking pretty fast.
@@thenowchurch6419 not ironic, but sarcastic
@@PapaKryptoss . Thanks. Good catch.
Strange, isn't it? Strange that after all of these years it has become known the translation/explanation from the obvious true prophet Joseph Smith was never supposed to concur with the one from that of the Egyptologists.
See Gregerson rejecting his own theory on Mormon Stories. Ha! Ha!
@@Themanyfacesofego Send the link to the video.
It's two separate languages....no it's two separate forms of writing the same language. Hieratics is basically the everyday cursive of hieroglyphics...also to say that we know what it says but not what it means is absurd. The whole point of writing is to convey meaning and any language that fails to do so is like knowing what a cow sounds like but not what the moo means i.e. worthless to those who are not on the same wavelength. So you say JS used these as a catalyst to interpret.... Though in early publication he refers in his preface of the work as it being a translation of said piec. The problem is if we go back to the cow mooing analogy; JS basically said I will be able to interpret exactly what the cow said...and then does so. Now let us say that a group of veterinarians and ranchers comes in looks at the cow and says that cow is mooing because her udders are full and she needs milked....her udders are indeed full so the correct interpretation of the moo isn't based on what the cow says...I need milked... But rather what when actually means...that is the end goal of her mooing is to be milked but not by the people but rather the intent of her mooing is to call in her calf so that it may drink. In the same way JS neither interpreted the meaning nor the intent of the papyrus so fully proves this to be a fraud
A lot of Baptists authentically try to divine meaning being fooled into thinking they have gifts of prophesy.
Your analogy of the cow, misses the whole point. If you disagree with Joseph Smith's singularity on a particular point of translation, meaning or interpretation, what will you dispute next? The whole basis of what the ancients in Egypt actually knew, and tried to emulate. Figuratively, that would take an eternity. And that, my friend, is the whole point. May the scales of justice, weigh well in your favour.
This stuff is way over your head. I suggest you start by reading the Book of Mormon. It will bring you closer to God. If, after you read it, you ask God sincerely in prayer, in the name of his Son, if it was not translated by the power of God, he will manifest the truth of it to you, if you are willing to do as he directs.
Google Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) youtube. EGYPTOLOGISTS and ANTI-MORMONS thoroughly DEBUNKED for assuming Joseph Smith was supposed to translate like an egyptologist.
see evidence why Joseph Smith was converting what the Egyptians counterfeited back into a biblical timeline. Link UTube video titled (BOA ep 16) by Paul Gregersen to get there
This is some serious mental gymnastics.
58:52 - The true power
Knowledge!
Anything = Anything = Anything What if we played that Fast And Loose with chemistry, or nuclear physics. Science would be a great big steaming pile of horse biscuits--and, we could smother them with gravy, and feast on them!!!
The embrace of clothing also implies that the spiritual man is a son of God but the natural man is an enemy of God. The animals do not make it wear clothing. So before Adam and Eve left the garden they were covered with clothing made of skins ..they were endowed to be able to survive in the cold world outside of paradise...
As a person who isn't in America....and a Trump fan... i find it hard to justify his selfish decision to buy 90% of the worlds supply of drug remdisivir
Sydney Rigdon wrote the BOA, nuff said
MARK CHAD HAHAHA HOW MUCH DID YOU PAY FOR THE ANTI MORMON BOOK YOU BOUGHT THAT TOLD THAT LIE? SIDNEY RIGDON MEET MORMONS AFTER THE BOOK OF MORMON WAS PUBLISHED. NOT BEFORE..... YOU GOT SUCKERED PAL
@Mark Chad I believe that one by the name of Paul Gregersen stated that ''we don't have the longer scroll the Book of Abraham came from, though we know how Joseph Smith translated by using a numerical system''
The egyptologists were debunked in 2014 for assuming Joseph Smith was supposed to translate like an egyptologist.
I thought that Jesus was the way, the truth, and the life, and that no one goes to the father except though him...
So, in other words, Joseph Smith translated nothing and used the texts in very creative types of divination.
He says The Egyptians copied the patriarch religion, ahaha. It never ends does it.
Bruce Porter has a lot of good and interesting information but early on in the video he says something I strongly disagree with.
2:27 - 2:47 Claims that Joseph Smith could not and did not translate the plates for the Book of Mormon, that the plates were just a catalyst for receiving revelation.
2:35 "when he got the Book of Mormon we know that he hardly ever even looked at the plates"
Oh really? How do we "know" this? By some inconsistent statements made by the apostate David Whitmer who was never given any part in the translation process or used the Urim and Thummim?
I think Brother Porter needs to consult with Oliver Cowdery who actually attempted to use the Urim and Thummim to translate a part of the golden plates. Oliver found out (was told) that the U&T does not work until activated by first using his brain. And how is he to use his brain without looking at what needs to be translated? Of course I'm talking about D&C sections 8 and 9. "behold...you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right,".
Does Bruce think that Joseph Smith was held to a different standard than what was given to Oliver? - ironically through Joseph? Unlike section 7 where no papyrus was given and it had to be direct revelation when you are given the record you have to learn it to translate it or of course you will fail as did Oliver. Joseph Smith spent a lot of time learning the characters before beginning to translate. After starting the translation how many times would he need to see the character for "and it came to pass" before he did not need the Urim and Thummin or even google translate to get those words? I think Bruce would be more accurate if he speculated "when he got far in the Book of Mormon we know that he hardly ever even looked at the Urim and Thummim" As a side note the translate with face in a hat thing and chocolate stone things are absolutely false - I'm sure Mark Hofmann is still snickering in his prison cell over the traction those have gotten.
No doubt Joseph Smith looked at each and every character in the unsealed part of the gold plates. The same would apply to the small plates of Nephi that he later received and translated (by Urim and Thummim again) which now make up the first part of the Book of Mormon instead of the lost manuscript pages.
Extraordinary claims.
Need extra ordinary proofs
And then again, let's just talk about the open faced LIES.
Have any of you asked yourselves "If this Book of Abraham is actually true, why then are the ONLY "researchers" in the world who make the case for it is LDS apologists and BYU professors?" Were it really true, then any halfway smart Egyptologist would grab on to it and make himself a name in his field of study. That simply hasn't happened. The basic problem is how many logical contortions and "what ifs" that have to be accomplished to justify the LDS church's assertion that it is a real work of Abraham, and that it contains truth. The bottom line is that a belief in the supernatural is nothing more than a belief in magic. When magic is the force that the universe works on, then what can't be believed and justified. The day that some LDS church priesthood holders gives a blessing to an amputee and the missing limb regrows, or raises a dead person back to life, then I will take this stuff seriously. Until then, this church is on the same barren ground as every other church on Earth. It talks a good game, but it has nothing to back up it's claims. One of the most important things true believers never ask themselves in earnest is whether it is really true. A burning in the bosom is a really poor substitute for demonstrable and repeatable evidence. Ask yourself just how convenient it was for God to take those gold plates up to Heaven (Joseph didn't really use them anyway, just his rock in a hat), but somehow allowed the papyri to survive and be scrutinized by people who can actually translate Egyptian.
The Egyptologists were debunked in 2014, where have you been?
You definitely qualify as a Hook Line And Sinker Mor(m)on! Accept it for what it is: Joseph Smith was like all the rest of the Post Apostles Of Jesus Christ ''Prophets"! All of them "Err in vision, and stumble in judgement!''
It will never cease to amaze me that otherwise seemingly intelligent people can continue to "explain" how pagan funerary texts dated from around the 1st century AD could be considered to be "writings of Abraham by his own hand", and accept those pagan funerary texts as Christian scripture.
There were two scrolls. One was the large scroll that the text of the Book of Abraham came from. The other is the small scroll which contained the Book of Breathings along with other writings and facsimilies. The large scroll was burned in a museum fire in Chicago. The small scroll (Book of Breathings) was retained by Emma Smith and eventually sold to a collector that eventually landed it in a museum in New York. The naysayers which you appear to be deriving your source from will tell you that the facsimilies of the Book of Abraham were found in the small scroll, therefore that must have been the supposed source of the Book of Abraham. In reality, the facsimilies are not related to the Book of Abraham (Nibley). They are independent facsimilies which Joseph Smith gave explanations of as Bruce Porter explains in his video. My recommendation to you is that you focus your efforts on bringing people closer to Christ. Trying to discredit the prophet Joseph Smith you will eventually find is a task similar to what Paul learned - it is kicking against the pricks. God Bless.
DESKJOCKIE IT WILL NEVER CEASE TO AMAZE ME HOW IGNORANT PEOPLE LIKE YOU KNOW SO LITTLE. THE ETHIOPIAN CHRISTIANS USED THE SAME EGYPTIAN TEXTS IN THE 1ST CENTURY TO TELL EVENTS IN THE LIFE OF ABRAHAM. BEST STUDY UP.
henochparks, you have lied so many times that your credibility is completely blown.
I know the apologists' story about the two scrolls and how one was destroyed in the Chicago fire. The fact remains that the Facsimiles that have been published in every edition of the Pearl of Great Price have been proven to be fraudulent, made up stories by Joseph Smith. He took pagan funerary scrolls from grave-robbed Egyptians and pretended to 'translate' them into "Christian" scripture. He got the story wrong, he got the names wrong, he got the genders wrong, and now that this has become completely apparent, the only recourse the Mormon church has is to fall back on a worn-out line that has no credibility whatever.
@deskjockie49, It would serve you well to focus your time on bringing people closer to Christ than to spend your time angrily criticizing other Christians when there beliefs to do not match up to yours.
He translated those as well as the Kinderhook plates. All of which he made up. Why was anything needed if he did not use them or they had no meaning? It’s a fraud!
LIE much?
Richard Holmes 🤣😂🤣😂 no your right it’s a big conspiracy against Mormons! The power company is in on it too!
@@shawnbradford2243 It is a big conspiracy against Mormons, a big conspiracy against Mormons mainly. As you all try to keep those who are not LDS from joining. Therefore, why would it be just a conspiracy against Mormons? The power company was in violation of every human decency law. I know of an anti-Mormon christian that backs up them who were in violation of every human decency law. Steven Price is his name, he backed up the wicked people at Gossner's in Logan, the same kind of people that were at Gossner's were the same kind of people that were affiliated with Utah Power and Light, now called Rocky Mountain Power, A.K.A. PacifiCorp.
@@shawnbradford2243 Steven Price (my cousin from Castle Dale not to be confused with my other cousin Steven Price), Wade Lake, Bobby Cologie, Brian Heaps, Michael Willardson (Willardsen), Donald Huntington (my step dad), Roger Huntington (half brother), Verda Carol Price Huntington (deceased mother), Billy Price (cousin), Mike Cologie etc were affiliated with Utah Power and Light. Those are some of the wicked people that took part in the attacks made on me in Emery County in the 70's and 80s.
@@shawnbradford2243 Dan Schultz, Joel Ellery, Drew Israesen, Edward Munoz, Gordy, Kevin Ashby and the receptionist are the seven I know that took part in that attack and unjust termination of me at Gossner in Logan, Utah. There had to have been more than those seven in that attack made against me on the 4th month of the year 2000.
That is not what Christ meant. Regarding the keys
Bin Ren What did he mean regarding the keys?
@@jennywight9119 Christ gives the keys of the Gospel there is no mention of priesthood order . Christ receives the Melchizedek Priesthood order after He ascends to Heaven. The two duties of Melchizedek are gift and sacrifice
The sacrifice Christ died on the Cross
The Gift We can have eternal life
Melchizedek is a diviine appointment
Only Christ holds the Melchizedek Priesthood it is nontransferable
The Mystery of Melchizedek appears on Genesis 14:18-20 and in psalms 110
Also NT Hebrews 7
Melchizedek is a Heavenly order . God gave our Lord. This Priesthood . You have to be King and a High Priest. that order goes to Jesus Christ . The Apostles never held the Melchizedek Priesthood
Mormon Theology believes Smith was given the Levitical Priesthood. It doesn't make sense that you would need that Priesthood
There was no need. Christ finished that Priesthood when he died on the Cross. Jesus was the Perfect Sacrifice . When Jesus died on the Cross that put an end to the Levitical/ Aaronic Priesthood
Jesus is now our Mediator to the God on High.
Only Jesus Christ has the Order of Melchizedek ..Christ is Our King and High Priest Forever
just listen to bruce porters apologist explanation, " he couldn't translate", if joseph smith was a prophet he could TRANSLATE anything, otherwise why the hell would he be a prophet? Why could he not translate with the power of God. if God is all knowing, wise, omnipotent and, chose Joseph to be his prophet in the last days, why would he not give him this gift? Open your eyes, he translates the BoM by looking into a hat with a stone, hahahahaha when he had the supposed plates in his posession? just listen to the absurdity of that statement, " oh i have the plates but, i'll just use this hat and stone, that i found in the bottom of a well, too translate." if he didnt use the plates how the hell does he know that he got it right, wouldn't the source material be a better way to translate? so many holes in bruce porters fantasy. egyptologist have debunked the PoGP facsimilies. the problem with the church is they will never admit they were caught in a lie.Modern science and the Rosetta stone have proven joseph to be a liar and, as such the church is built on that lie.
Joey Carter you forgot he also had the nephite interpreters (large spectacles of diamond set in a silver bow attached to a breastplate) that were saved for thousands off years with the gold plates so that he could hide them in the woods and stick a rock in his hat 🤣🤣🤣🤣. Or so he could put them under a cloth and let people touch them(and somehow they were the size and weight of lead sheets 🤣🤣😂). At that point people who believe this don’t care about facts!
@@shawnbradford2243 hahahaha I know, i forgot the mention the urim and thumim, just another nail in the coffin to the apologists argument. Sooooo, I also wonder why he didn't use the U&T to translate the Pearl of Great Price? Oh that's right God had already taken it back, as well as the Gold plates. But wait, why couldn't he use the rock in the hat trick? i mean he kept the rock but, some how God didn't forsee that he would need the U&T to translate the PoGP? I smell major fraud and, I actually bought into it, served a mission and other church positions after returning but, eyes wide open now.
Joey Carter did you know the term Urim and thummim in Mormonism is an anachronistic change of calling the interpreters or spectacles to make them less treasure seeker. It wasn’t used until about 1835. Ask a Mormon about its history and they assume is was always called Urim and thummim and don’t really know what that was in the OT and how the interpreters/spectacles/peep stone were nothing like the Urim and thummim of the Old Testament in appearance or use. Some crazy stuff!
@@shawnbradford2243 Yeah the LDS church gets the Urim and Thummim totally wrong, biblically it was worn by the high priest for various purposes such as, is someone a sinner, to inquire of the lord, and revealation. No biblical mention of it ever being used too interpret scripture or languages. The breast plate also had 12 precious stone, each representing a different tribe of Israel and the Urim and Thummim fastened to it. Never any mention of magical spectacles used in conjunction with it anywhere in scripture.
Joey Carter and 99% of Mormons have no clue!
Are you people crazy? None of this is in the Holy Bible or Jewish records. You are worshiping Egyptian Gods! Wake up
If the papyrus was nothing more than a catalyst then what you’re saying is that really we never needed the gold plates at all. All that was needed with some kind of catalyst. Perhaps a shampoo bottle with the rear label written in a foreign language.
I find this guys credulity to be shocking.
Get well soon
Write a paper that refutes him and get it published. Thanks!
What is this guys credentials...or what does he just look into his hat too?
Masters in Ancient Near East; speaks and/or writes 5 languages, two of which that are dead. I know him personally and his intellect, understanding, knowledge, and testimony are absolutely solid.
Google his name. He is a very established scholar.
Jimmy two toes, we get it. No one is forcing you to believe. Perhaps you would be happier discrediting the Catholic church, or indeed a raft of protestant faiths. Incidentally, what are your credentials, and is your hat big enough to accommodate your inflated ego?
I look into a hat and see that you would murder Joseph Smith just like the mobs of 1844.
Porter why are you not telling the truth . Abraham and Joseph stories were oral transmissions
Moses wrote the Pentateuch not Abram or Joseph.
Get your facts straight.
The header in the BoA Smith says he translated the papyri.
I would trust Bruce Porter to deliver Mormon apologetics and the quickest route to the Golden Corral. I would not trust him to honestly assess/appraise the historicity of the Book of Abraham.
"Revelatory Translation'? What one is it? A revelation or Translation. The speaker just said it was not a Translation. Hes confused.
Clearly there are fools born every minute!
You mean the dumb egyptologists and those who are dumb enough to have believed them?
So now you make up a reason for the existence of your temples. You make altars on high points and a temple needs to surround the altar where “covenants are made”. May I remind you that Christ did away with temples other than turning our bodies into them to house the Holy Spirit. He has brought and finalized the one and ONLY covenant ever needed for all eternity. So the very existence of your temples is anti biblical and therefore heretical.
If Jesus did away with temples, why did the Apostles teach there after He ascended? Book of Acts.
Don't you think the Apostles would have condemned the use of the temple after Christ was gone?
James Durpington the Jews were unbelievers but God had the ONE and ONLY temple destroyed forever in 70 AD.
@@kkdoc7864 When did God tell you there was ONE and ONLY ONE temple? And when did He tell you He destroyed it? I think you're making some assumptions here.
Mental gymnastics at its finest
Thanks for that, "Michael Reeves".
😂😂😂
Throw away any reasonable thought, then build a foundation of fictional illusion and believe in it with all your heart.Mental gymnastics and confirmation bias rule the day. Then throw away your own brains, replace them with quotes from old pasty white men and thru prayer and sacrifice you will find yourself on your knees bent over an alter pledging your life and your means and talents to a group of people you will be lucky to ever meet in person. Although they know nothing about you, pledge your life to their words and wisdom. Then on your death bed donate your property to the church and whatever stock's you have and die in peace knowing Joseph Smith will be sitting next to Christ judging you according to your righteous work's.
God's wisdom is ever above the wisdom of man. The book of Mormon is written and translated through the power of God. Since it is created through the blessings of God, it is not shocking to know that even the experts and the learned couldn't disproved the Book of Mormon. It is still wise to stand on faith than with just sight.
Faith and hope in a faulty premises is not the Lords way. He said come follow me. not follow the whims of men.
What a load of crap. Everything which is wrong with academic processes and logic are demonstrated in this video.
Yes the presentation is set up and the tone of the presented as scholarly then subjective opinions are expressed as truth. It seems this is hat Joseph did when he said he was translating even if it was by the power of God, it was still deceptively presented to the church. Sorry folks it is what it s, not what you want it to be.
@@Sayheybrother8 Who cares if he used a hat, or some stones, or if he hung upside down like a bat, or if he planked atop the roof of his house? Why does the method of translation matter so much to people?
James Durpington If it didn’t matter how it was translated why did the church shy away from the real story for over 100 yrs?
@@Sayheybrother8 Because most people in today's day see these things as incredibly weird, and their prejudgments may stand in the way of finding the truth. I'm sure people though Moses was a nutcase for hitting rocks with this staff to bring out water, or that Naaman was to wash several times in a filthy river to be healed. Instead they gave more broad definitions of how the process happened, which is actually true, because the phrase "by the gift and power of God" is how it happened, regardless of the method. And to say the church try to hide it is stupid, it's always been part of the record of how things came to be. That detail wasn't and shouldn't have and still shouldn't be the focus of what came about from it all. Any earnest person reading the Book of Mormon, Mormon or not, cannot help but want to be a better person and live closer to God. If it was all inspired by Satan or if Joseph Smith was some kind of conman, why would the results of all of his efforts end in people wanting to adhere more fully to keep God's commandments and serve Him and help other people? Getting caught up in details of how things occurred is just a distraction from the actual important things that came about.
@@jamesdurpington8619 did Joseph confidently convince men into digging for treasures?
Such a poor presentation of the most importnt subjects in or day.
LDS are the winners when it comes to redefining what words mean. Salvation is not what Christians say it is, atonement is not what Christians say it is, Etc. Now they are saying the facsimiles interpreted by JS was NOT a translation, but an “explanation”. Nice try, but laughable.
I bet if we passed around 250 paper to your church and 250 papers to my church and had people give anonymous definitions of being saved salvation . We would get 450 plus different definitions
The Mormon church admits he made it all up.
I think Smith pushed his luck too far with the BOA. Egyptologists caught him out. For that reason I don't believe his BOM either now.....
That's a shame! You should watch this video.
@@Misa_Susaki We have people who can read the papyri.They don't say what Joseph Smith said they do. It's a fabrication and your prophet is a fraud. Game over. Game over.
WHAT A BUNCH OF BS ............TRYING TO EXPLAIN AWAY JOSEPH SMITHS LIES
Why can't you just leave people alone? Let them believe whatever they want. It's not hurting you.