I love the general vibe of "Oh god, more Kirkbride" in this podcast. That man's mind is basically a never ending acid trip, and his lore is the wackiest metaphysical mumbo jumbo I think I've ever heard. Love it.
@@defeatstatistics7413 I think it was a mental breakdown during his college finals, and it was LSD and alcohol over a two-week self-isolation timespan and he just emerged with the 36 Lessons and everyone else loved it, proofread it, and put it in as books.
"Dunmer Hist Slaves" refers to a Kirkbride post that claimed the playable argonians in Arena are dunmer that were altered by hist sap to be special agents for espionage Part of MK's expansion on hist and argonians is that injestion of hist sap will bind anyone's soul to the hist, not just saxhleel
@@dancincoolkid this is a.... complicated question. *Technically* anything he has written that does not show up in-game or is referenced in-game is non-canon, but a lot of what he's written paints the world very well, and is given strength by his background as one of TES's most important foundational writers. Personally I do accept most of his stuff, even the most outlandish; others tend to take issue with them because they seem to take it all as blanket factual and not understand that they can have in-universe backgrounds too. For example, his KINMUNE story calling Queen Ayrenn a robot from the future is ridiculous, you'd have to be stupid to take it as face value fact, so many people throw it out. However I take it as very much a part of the universe.....as a 2nd era anti-dominion conspiracy theory
@@zarnubiusbukowski7019 I like to apply Quantum Shroedinger's Lore to all of MK's stuff: it's straightforward canon in at least ONE universe, but it's up to you if it's straightforward canon to YOUR universe. MK's best gift to the TES community was C0DA: the personal validation that each of us can pick and choose what is and isn't canon and HOW it is and isn't canon means that there's a larger than usual amount of lenience creativity-wise and it even means that memey things like say a Dagothwave AU where Voryn Dagoth just makes vaporwave tunes in his basement is legit in some alternate Nirn. It also means that I can argue that KINMUNE is why Skyrim's 4e Thalmor are trying to tear spacetime's tapestry from the godly metaphysical loom it's being woven on kind of like a cosmic personification of a very bad therapy process that's just making Anu's trauma worse by tearing through his coping mechanism instead of teaching him a healthy coping alternative, and then dovetail into my theory that Sithis itself engineered Lorkhan, Nerevar, then the Nerevarine as a bid to create a new coping mechanism for Anu that endured so much that it just goes "ENOUGH! I'M TIRED OF PAIN AND HURTING AND BEING HURT, THIS CHANGES NOW."
In simple terms, kirkbride is a contract worker and nothing stops him from referencing hidden lore he may have had in mind when he wrote for elder scrolls on jobs for bethesda, OR bullshitting, making things up on the spot and posing it as secrets.
Experiencing a Chim attempt would be akin to dreaming, realising you’re dreaming and then either waking up (zero summing) or staying asleep and beginning to lucid dream (Chim)
I think it would be more like realizing you're living in the Matrix, but deciding that you want to stay blue-pilled anyway while fully conscious of the fragility of the world - hence, awakening Neo-like supernatural powers
I seriously cannot comprehend the fact that the two best elderscrolls channels finally come together. Not even jygalag himself could put the universe back in order after such a podcast
@John Doe Let him like the podcast. You assume he's just jumping up and down in his computer chair but he was just using hyperbole. How about you chill? Control your emotions and don't get angry at someone being literally just being excited at something.
the fargoth cycle: the nerevarine gets off the ship, they're appearence is customized to look exactly like fargoth. they kill fargoth, take his clothes, and assume everything he does. the nerevarine is fargoth now. eventually, a boat lands in sayda neen with another neravarine who looks exactly like fargoth. and so the cycle continues
At 45:36, while they're talking about how Morrowind sorta caused a soft reboot of the lore, I suddenly realized that it'd actually be really fun to see them do a series on of just going through Daggerfall/pre Morrowind era lore and finding ways to reconcile it with the more modern lore. They seem like they have a good grasp of the topics and could do it, plus it'd be nice for some people like myself who just really don't know much about pre Morrowind era Elder Scrolls.
The Eye of Argonia is also probably a reference to "The Eye of Argon," an infamous novella often considered one of the world's worst pieces of fantasy fiction.
1:43:30 The best monkey truth I’ve seen: Ebonarm is said to be the enemy of every Daedric prince except Sheogorath, the reason why is because Ebonarm is the guardian/ protector of all warriors and Sheogorath can represent the PTSD that many warriors would experience as a result of war.
I have to wait for lunch to start this but, holy sh*t! Camel+Fudgemuppet!!! I may OD on awesome. Remember when you guys did that TES6 Hammerfell/High Rock fight, aww, good times lol. Thanks all of you, you've made my day.
thank you guys so much. I have been subscribed since 2016 you have and are still helping me through depression. Thank you fudgemuppet, u saved my life still today.
An aperture is a hole, so Vivec's "2nd Aperture" is probably referring to his anus, assuming it's a kirkbride thing. It adds up, with things being birthed from the 2nd aperture and outlawing piercing the 2nd aperture.
Yeah that’s literally it. Baar Dau is a piece of Vivec’s metaphysical poop, and the Temple added “anal is bad” when Vivec finished writing His Sermons. They did the same with oral during the Pomegranate Banquet part of the Sermons
On the "Eye of Argonia": there's an old (1970 IIRC), legendarily bad piece of fantasy writing out there titled "The Eye of Argon". Since it's earned itself some infamy in relevant circles, could be they were also referencing that.
I'm honestly fairly certain if anyone from reality was sent to TES, they would have a very good shot of instantly achieving CHIM without even really trying; just having the realization that you are in a fictional world, but you yourself are not fictional, would probably do it.
The real question is would you CHIM IRL? Like, if you found out your reality was a dream and you were just a part of it, could you hold on to your identity?
@@unslaadkrosis9435 You'd still need to understand the framework in a way convincing enough for the Godhead and to avoid confusing which causes which-- Voryn Dagoth got it backward and look where that got him and most of the poor fetchers and n'wahs his mind touched.
I would love a series where you talk about each of the 36 lessons of vivec. Either a series like your normal videos or just a podcast would be awesome!
Awesome collab! :) In regards to whether or not all Nords, or just the bravest of Nords, go to Sovngarde, Bulfrek (Skyrim, servant to Jarl Skald the Elder) says: "There's no honor in being a Jarl's servant. No Sovngarde waits for dust cleaners."
- On Secret of The Moons, the first thing that come to my mind is a from a khajiit myth. Fadomai gave Azurah 3 secrets as a gift before she died, and Azurah gave the first of the secret to the moons. - The Wolrd Egg; Paarthurnax haev a dialogue that goes something like “Perhaps this world is the egg of a new kalpa.” when he talk about how you wanting to stop Alduin is also stopping the next world from being born - The khajiit tower: so there’s this concept of the towerrs and how there are 8 of them, right? well here’s an idea; The whole race of khajiit is a 9th tower, and its stone is the mane. The Cat pile refer to when The mane decided the khajiit should go live on the moon. So he ordered khajiit to climb on top of each other, into a tall pile, until they reach the moon, until “The top cat, which is the bottom cat” grab the tail of the khajiit “who is below, which is on top” him, and “pull up, which is pull down” - lunar currency is the idea hat daedric prines uses mortal’s soul like a currency. The more follower they gained, the more soul energy they have as the mortal died and their souls goes to the daedra they worshipped. - I believed it’s pronounced Jubal Lun-Sul, and the Lun is like Luna, so: Jubal moon-star (Lun is moon, and sul/sol is the sun which is, in TES universe, the same as the star; a hole in aetherious)
I think the fact that the secrets of the Skaal aren't all that special is the point. It shows how the mad mind of Mora works; he doesn't care bout the content of their secrets, he merely cares about the fact that they know something that he doesn't. Hermaeus Mora collects knowledge, doesn't matter what kind or how useful...
Something funny about you guys and cameleorks is that I can hardly tell your voices apart 🤣. Enjoy all of your guys content though. Also Camel looks nothing like what I expected 🤣
1:33:39 is a reference to the kalpa and it is parthenax who mentions it when you're talking to him about killing aldoene he says something along the lines of, perhaps our world is the egg in which the next world rests would you stop the next world from being born?
I do want to put forward the idea that maybe, assuming whatever was done was in fact comparable to a nuclear bomb, by splitting the atoms with one’s sword, the “Yokuda sinking into the sea” story is just what the high ranking Yokudans told everyone else to force everyone to leave quickly and avoid people getting radiation sickness, and the violence and seeming desperation of the Warrior Waves were in fear that the radiation would follow them across the sea and that they’d doomed the world.
Totally love the dynamic between the four in an over 2hrs deep lore podcast. Michael: I'm wasted, feeling like an ash ghoul. I want to go home. Camel: I've slept for 4 hrs before that, just vibin'! Drew: I'm the MC now, for you shall listen to my bars! Scott: Dunno, just a regular Tuesday afternoon for me.
About Amulet of Kings, I've got the full impression that Martin used his knowledge of daedric magic and drop of Lorkhan's blood to transform into a divine dragon. Almalexia already banished Mehrunes Dagon with Lorkhan's power once. And the very form of the dragon is simply the best expression for the Septim's dynasty.
My first time watching this 2 years later, but thank you for inviting Camel... both channels offer lore in TES and we got all in one here. Thank you FM and Camel.
Theory: Yokuda is where the fallout games happen Edit: My headcannon is that the 'secrets of the Skaal' that hermaeus mora wants is how they make stahlrim weapons/armor
Woah, the Tsaesci Goa'uld theory is craaazy good. The Tsaesci are parasitic worms or snakes that "eat" their host and then "become" their host. Thus when they change host they "shed their skin". All of their shapeshifting would be them body-jacking a new host. I love that one. (Edit: Also, like the Goa'uld of Stargate, this would make them immortal as they live within the host until its natural death.)
You guys should do a podcast where you find photos/drawing that most accurately represent what certain creatures and things in the game would look like if going straight off of lore
Ah, my favourite part of every Sunday. And hi Camel! I've really enjoyed these iceberg episodes, and the collaborations. It's a fun spattering of deep lore (and memes).
Concerning the magical language, it could really be referring to quite a few things, as was said in the video, but I personally think it's referring to the unusual script lining the eye of magnus, and all over the black books.
Actually jiib was in oblivion in kavatch where a hooded dremora attacks check the house he jumps from he is just a torn corpse and by the bed his head is there same look from morrowind with some newer texture
41:07 Myth-echo is a term that comes from the Song of Pelinal v6 "Still others, like Fifd of New Teed, say that beneath the Pelinal's star-armor was a chest that gaped open to show no heart, only a red rage shaped diamond-fashion, singing like a mindless dragon, and that this was proof that he was a *myth*- *echo* , and that where he trod were shapes of the first urging." UESP links it to the et'Ada, which is a really interesting idea that I kind of prefer over the idea that it's just another poetic description of mantling and Shezarines (in Pelinal's case an... Akatoshine??).
Somehow, hearing about these theories adds (even) more depth to the world for me, and makes new RP runs interesting even after so long a pause between games. Thanks much!
Time winds and unwinds in mysterious paths, like the shifting sands of the alik'r that brought a camel to a mysterious land of the scholars named fudge
Super excited to see Camel joining my favorite Fudgemuppets in this podcast! Dream come true! Thank you guys for your hard work on this iceberg list, I really enjoyed listening to the four of you unravel it. I’m surprised no one zero summed in the process yet! There was mention at some point about Michael Kirkbride being a guest. Sounded like you guys were kidding, but hey, I can dream right? Wouldn’t that be the icing on the sweet roll....
I think "lorkhan's purposeful failure" is referring to him failing to achieve CHIM. Kirkbride made a forum post years ago answering questions about CHIM and the psijic endeavor. He said something about lorkhan failing to achieve CHIM on purpose so others would know how avoid the same fate. It on the imperial library and called "more on the psijic endeavor."
Gameshow idea: "Master of Muppets". Camel hosts. He asks the muppets Elder Scrolls questions to find out who is the ultimate lore-master among the 3 muppets.
Very late, but a few notes on things that could do with further clarification: - Creatia gets mentioned in the Nu-Mantia Intercept - Yes, Sithis is the book that claims the Aedra are bad. It uses that framework to present how the Nerevarine should deceive Dagoth Ur. - The line art of Skar is MK's own art, as far as I remember - Myth-echo - an imitation of something else in general, not sure it's related to kalpas as such. Like the Shezarrine is a myth-echo of Shezarr/Lorkhan - Talos ate all the dragons - Any dragons disappeared around Talos' time. Went into hiding at least, given Paarthurnax - Eye of Argonia - wasn't there a reference to that in the ESO Murkmire DLC? The amber that holds a tribe or something like that - Walking Ways - ways to "reach heaven by violence", not necessarily to godhood itself. The Ways aren't exactly codified - the Loveletter from the Fifth Era is taken as "the list", but I think that's wrong personally. It talks about CHIM and "the Endeavour" as different things, but there's an MK forum post that says that the Endeavour is a means of achieving CHIM. - Amaranth is not about replacing the godhead, it's the creation of a new universe. Not the replacement of the current one. - Twelve Worlds of Creation - compare the mashing of the Twelve Worlds by Anu with the creation of the world in the Redguard myth. I personally think the Twelve Worlds are previous kalpas. - Snow-Throat's stone actually IS supposed to be "the Cave", but that's possibly more a metaphor than an actual cave. Like Jung's Cave in psychoanalysis, or Plato's Cave in philosophy - Nirn as Jupiter - that's a possible reference to a pitch that MK and Kurt Kuhlmann made, that eventually became Morrowind. There was the idea of a game set around the moons of Jupiter, where plants and metal being really scarce, so the brass cannonballs that were shot by the spaceships all had names, and everyone ate bonemeal. There's a forum post somewhere explaining it, but that's all I remember. - University of Gwylim - they're the university behind the Antiquarians faction in ESO, where the Antiquities skills come from - YOU CAN'T USE KEENING TO ZERO SUM! Also, not necessarily linked to CHIM, in my opinion. The biggest text we have on Zero Sum gives no real mention of CHIM - Ruling King - someone who achieved a Walking Way, as well as the King who is overthrown by the Rebel in an enantiomorphic event. - PSJJJJ - It's in Vehk's Teaching. To reflect the impossibility of Anu doing something. - Second Aperture is literally someone's backside. The 36 Lessons claim Lie Rock is Vivec's turd. Consider what that means with regard to the practice of piercing the Second Aperture, which the sages "hide from Muatra"(= Vivec's penis) - Hurling Disc is a reference to dragon breaks. Referenced by the Marukhati as well as the 36 Lessons. If the world is a wheel with spokes for the Aedra etc, when the spokes are gone (=it becomes a disc), the rules of nature are broken. The Marukhati used it to manipulate Akatosh. - Lorkhan also possibly purposefully failed at CHIM, if you believe Vehk's Teachings text. - The Khajiit Tower is referenced in the Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi, that if the moons fall the Khajiit will climb on each others' shoulders to put the moons "back on their courses" - The Provisional House is also called "the space that is not a space", and other terms. It's basically Vivec's "thought-space", where ze goes in order to contemplate and attempt to achieve a form of enlightenment. A fourth-wall theory also has it as being the Construction Kit. - Dagoth Ur Endgame - Yes, it's about Dagoth Ur wanting to subsume everything. The phrase that I've seen to explain it is that if CHIM is I AM AND I ARE ALL WE, Dagoth Ur is aiming for I AM AND YOU ARE ALL ME. IceFireWarden/At-Hatoor wrote a great piece on it on /r/teslore, called Anti-CHIM: A theory and... something - The Enantiomorph is the idea of two opposites resolving. The Rebel overtaking the King, with the help of the Observer (who is often said to "resolve" the Enantiomorph). The Observer is maimed in the process. There are tons of these in the Elder Scrolls, most particularly TES3. - Vivec the Rebel overthrows Nerevar the King, and Alandro Sul the Observer is blinded. - Padomay the Rebel overthrows Nir the King, and Anu the Observer is crippled by grief - Lorkhan the King is overthrown by Akatosh the Rebel, aided by Trinimac the Observer who is later maimed by Boethiah - Dagoth Ur the King is overthrown by the Rebel Nerevarine, aided by the Observer Vivec, who later disappears - Mehrunes Dagon the King is defeated by the Rebel Martin, aided by the Observer the Champion of Cyrodiil, who later becomes Sheogorath (who is portrayed as blind) Sithis as the "secret lesson of Vivec" is the idea that Vivec wrote the book Sithis (the "go unto the Sharmat Dagoth Ur as a friend" book). The book also references the 36 Lessons. - Bendu Olo is also the "placeholder name" for every character in Bethesda promotional materials - Lunar currency is often taken by fans to be souls, because all of that stuff about spirits going to their aligned AE. - Mnemo-Li is implied to be a single entity in the Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes - There are indications that the Bosmer used to worship Hircine, before turning to Y'ffrre - Arniel Garne doesn't Zero Sum. It's also unlikely that the Dwemer did, in my opinion - the Abnegaurbic Creed is probably closer to Dwemer philosophy than anything. MK has described their philosophy as "the heroic abrogation of everything". Sounds like abnegation, anyway. - re joy snow... Cocaine is also called blow... - The Sharmat is potentially more than Dagoth Ur. It's the mythical enemy of the Dunmer people. I seem to remember that Kagrenac is called the "first blighter" and such, and I've heard arguments that Miraak qualifies as a Sharmat. - there's a suggestion in ESO that a "sword-stroke" sank Yokuda. The name Pankratosword isn't mentioned, though
I'm glad to see you guys teamed up! Camel is my other source for TES lore. Hopefully we see more collaboration between the two of your channels. You guys have covered a lot of the same stuff, some of it being a little contradictory (like the mysteries series). That's why I liked watching both; so seeing you guys discuss topics together is awesome!
Just finished at 12 hour day in the kitchen and I’m using this as my way to inwind. Couldn’t think of anything better. You all are the best. Bring camel on more often please! You all have such great conversations. Love the four of you so damn much! You have made Sunday my favourite day of the week ☝️🤣
Been looking forward all week to more fudge muppet pod casts 😀 🤩 ❤️ and thanks team so good to us fans to get Camel on 🐪 🐪. As a fan this is pinnacle lore indulgence as I love both channels and re watch them. 🙏
The four corners of the house of troubles: Camelacath, Mehrunes Drewgon, Scottogorath, and Michaelag Bal
Best comment ever ! This should be a thing from now on for this podcast !
This.
This is one of the best comments I’ve seen in my life. ☝️
True
Brilliant 😂
I've never been the same since we finished the iceberg.
this discussion could never go more ballsdeep without you
I have a theory for "moving at strange angles." Read it as: Glitching through the floor. Lol
I could feel you struggling to keep up with the nerdiness throughout this whole video lmao
I have never been the same since I saw this legendary team buildup👀👀👀👀😲😲😲😲
Your spectacles are amazing
What a grand and intoxicating collaboration
Lay down your downvoted, it is not too late for my mercy.
!!LULZORS I GET IT TOO!! WHOOPS CAPS LOOLLS!!!
ua-cam.com/video/iR-K2rUP86M/v-deo.html
This is literally a dream come true. I love you all. Gods please make more colabs
Come, Camelvar, friend or traitor, come.
Come and look upon the Iceberg!
Come through theories and lore
This is the collaboration The Elder Scrolls spoke of...
My first thought was “oh boy oh boy oh boy” when I saw the colab
All we're missing is Nate and maybe Rhexx.
I always thought Nate was more about the ingame details and less about the outer lore.
@@ltloxa1159 I put him about the same as Camel.
dear god you know its DEEP lore when muppets gotta call in back up
Lmao true story
For part 3 they'll invite Kirkbride and Pagliarulo. And even they will say "dunno" to parts of it
For part four they will have the godhead of our universe and it'll be like IDK man this dream is absurd.
@@ltloxa1159 for part 5 they'll bring Nazeem from the Cloud District
Do you get to the God dialoge very often? Oh what am I saying?! Ofcourse you don't.
I love the general vibe of "Oh god, more Kirkbride" in this podcast. That man's mind is basically a never ending acid trip, and his lore is the wackiest metaphysical mumbo jumbo I think I've ever heard. Love it.
Kirkbride is all I want for TES6. Just bring him back and give the man a buffet of psychedelics and let him write. 🤣
didn't he write most of the 36 Lessons fucked up on mescalin and sleep deprivation?
@@defeatstatistics7413 so the story goes. Personally, I think he became the new Sharmat, and everything he wrote is just the anti-dream.
@@defeatstatistics7413 I think it was a mental breakdown during his college finals, and it was LSD and alcohol over a two-week self-isolation timespan and he just emerged with the 36 Lessons and everyone else loved it, proofread it, and put it in as books.
And so the Tribunal got Tiber Septim as a guest on the show.
Michaelexia, Scotta Sil and Drewec
@@Philosophocat the Micscodre
Ph god the shot that went through my head .....
And introducing the camelborn
And the three... Became four.
"Dunmer Hist Slaves" refers to a Kirkbride post that claimed the playable argonians in Arena are dunmer that were altered by hist sap to be special agents for espionage
Part of MK's expansion on hist and argonians is that injestion of hist sap will bind anyone's soul to the hist, not just saxhleel
Is that canon?? I get so confused as to what MK made that was canon and what isn't...
@@dancincoolkid this is a.... complicated question. *Technically* anything he has written that does not show up in-game or is referenced in-game is non-canon, but a lot of what he's written paints the world very well, and is given strength by his background as one of TES's most important foundational writers. Personally I do accept most of his stuff, even the most outlandish; others tend to take issue with them because they seem to take it all as blanket factual and not understand that they can have in-universe backgrounds too.
For example, his KINMUNE story calling Queen Ayrenn a robot from the future is ridiculous, you'd have to be stupid to take it as face value fact, so many people throw it out. However I take it as very much a part of the universe.....as a 2nd era anti-dominion conspiracy theory
@@zarnubiusbukowski7019 I like to apply Quantum Shroedinger's Lore to all of MK's stuff: it's straightforward canon in at least ONE universe, but it's up to you if it's straightforward canon to YOUR universe.
MK's best gift to the TES community was C0DA: the personal validation that each of us can pick and choose what is and isn't canon and HOW it is and isn't canon means that there's a larger than usual amount of lenience creativity-wise and it even means that memey things like say a Dagothwave AU where Voryn Dagoth just makes vaporwave tunes in his basement is legit in some alternate Nirn.
It also means that I can argue that KINMUNE is why Skyrim's 4e Thalmor are trying to tear spacetime's tapestry from the godly metaphysical loom it's being woven on kind of like a cosmic personification of a very bad therapy process that's just making Anu's trauma worse by tearing through his coping mechanism instead of teaching him a healthy coping alternative, and then dovetail into my theory that Sithis itself engineered Lorkhan, Nerevar, then the Nerevarine as a bid to create a new coping mechanism for Anu that endured so much that it just goes "ENOUGH! I'M TIRED OF PAIN AND HURTING AND BEING HURT, THIS CHANGES NOW."
In simple terms, kirkbride is a contract worker and nothing stops him from referencing hidden lore he may have had in mind when he wrote for elder scrolls on jobs for bethesda, OR bullshitting, making things up on the spot and posing it as secrets.
Experiencing a Chim attempt would be akin to dreaming, realising you’re dreaming and then either waking up (zero summing) or staying asleep and beginning to lucid dream (Chim)
Pretty much sums it up.
@@weirdreportt yep, very succinctly too.
Assuming there's the option of existing beyond waking up, if there's a waking world to continue on in.
I think it would be more like realizing you're living in the Matrix, but deciding that you want to stay blue-pilled anyway while fully conscious of the fragility of the world - hence, awakening Neo-like supernatural powers
Many a dream, I have realized I was adream, yet was powerless to do either.
I seriously cannot comprehend the fact that the two best elderscrolls channels finally come together. Not even jygalag himself could put the universe back in order after such a podcast
Needs the epic nate. Their channel was the first YT page I found about elder scrols
@John Doe Let him like the podcast. You assume he's just jumping up and down in his computer chair but he was just using hyperbole. How about you chill? Control your emotions and don't get angry at someone being literally just being excited at something.
the fargoth cycle: the nerevarine gets off the ship, they're appearence is customized to look exactly like fargoth. they kill fargoth, take his clothes, and assume everything he does. the nerevarine is fargoth now. eventually, a boat lands in sayda neen with another neravarine who looks exactly like fargoth. and so the cycle continues
Camel’s hair is fucking magnificent.
Camel looks like Jude law with long hair
always has been
Indeed
Like a pony!
At 45:36, while they're talking about how Morrowind sorta caused a soft reboot of the lore, I suddenly realized that it'd actually be really fun to see them do a series on of just going through Daggerfall/pre Morrowind era lore and finding ways to reconcile it with the more modern lore. They seem like they have a good grasp of the topics and could do it, plus it'd be nice for some people like myself who just really don't know much about pre Morrowind era Elder Scrolls.
Oh that's a cool idea
Eh, from my pretty limited knowledge of Elderscroll lore, most would be summed up as 'A Dragonbreak did it'.
Me: Oh sweet, Camel collab! Can’t wait to see what interesting lore topics they talk about together
Also me: OH NO, HES HOT
honestly can't choose between Camel and Drew
not gay but i am for camel
Squidward reference
They're all gorj
They’re all attractive. Drew is bae. Camel’s hair is magnificent.
"ft. Camelworks". Nice, nice, made me happy made me smile, nice.
Camel is just Scott when Todd changes the NPC preset a little bit
Holy shit
Wtf ur right lmao
The Eye of Argonia is also probably a reference to "The Eye of Argon," an infamous novella often considered one of the world's worst pieces of fantasy fiction.
1:43:30
The best monkey truth I’ve seen: Ebonarm is said to be the enemy of every Daedric prince except Sheogorath, the reason why is because Ebonarm is the guardian/ protector of all warriors and Sheogorath can represent the PTSD that many warriors would experience as a result of war.
Aww that’s kinda wholesome in a weird way
I'd like to think Ebonarm is a remnant of the previous Kalpa's Lorkhan/Talos.
Reason he doesn't oppose Sheogorath: Oblivion.
I have to wait for lunch to start this but, holy sh*t! Camel+Fudgemuppet!!! I may OD on awesome. Remember when you guys did that TES6 Hammerfell/High Rock fight, aww, good times lol. Thanks all of you, you've made my day.
thank you guys so much. I have been subscribed since 2016 you have and are still helping me through depression. Thank you fudgemuppet, u saved my life still today.
An aperture is a hole, so Vivec's "2nd Aperture" is probably referring to his anus, assuming it's a kirkbride thing. It adds up, with things being birthed from the 2nd aperture and outlawing piercing the 2nd aperture.
Yeah that’s literally it. Baar Dau is a piece of Vivec’s metaphysical poop, and the Temple added “anal is bad” when Vivec finished writing His Sermons. They did the same with oral during the Pomegranate Banquet part of the Sermons
On the "Eye of Argonia": there's an old (1970 IIRC), legendarily bad piece of fantasy writing out there titled "The Eye of Argon". Since it's earned itself some infamy in relevant circles, could be they were also referencing that.
I'm honestly fairly certain if anyone from reality was sent to TES, they would have a very good shot of instantly achieving CHIM without even really trying; just having the realization that you are in a fictional world, but you yourself are not fictional, would probably do it.
The real question is would you CHIM IRL? Like, if you found out your reality was a dream and you were just a part of it, could you hold on to your identity?
im fairly certain this thought experiment is fruitless to begin with lmao
Lmao being a god in a really cool universe i am already fairly educated in? Hell yeah
@@SobeCrunkMonster aren't all thought experiments?
And aren't you?
@@unslaadkrosis9435 You'd still need to understand the framework in a way convincing enough for the Godhead and to avoid confusing which causes which-- Voryn Dagoth got it backward and look where that got him and most of the poor fetchers and n'wahs his mind touched.
yeah you already know this is gonna get deep when camel shows up
Thanks fellas. Was wondering if a part 2 was coming. Couldn't wait to get into the weird stuff. Nice to see Camel in there too.
Stoked.
I would love a series where you talk about each of the 36 lessons of vivec. Either a series like your normal videos or just a podcast would be awesome!
Drew gave us a ligma joke and a reference to returning to monke. This is why I love him
Two and a half hours? This will be the best Sunday of this year so far.
Awesome collab! :)
In regards to whether or not all Nords, or just the bravest of Nords, go to Sovngarde, Bulfrek (Skyrim, servant to Jarl Skald the Elder) says: "There's no honor in being a Jarl's servant. No Sovngarde waits for dust cleaners."
- On Secret of The Moons, the first thing that come to my mind is a from a khajiit myth. Fadomai gave Azurah 3 secrets as a gift before she died, and Azurah gave the first of the secret to the moons.
- The Wolrd Egg; Paarthurnax haev a dialogue that goes something like “Perhaps this world is the egg of a new kalpa.” when he talk about how you wanting to stop Alduin is also stopping the next world from being born
- The khajiit tower: so there’s this concept of the towerrs and how there are 8 of them, right? well here’s an idea; The whole race of khajiit is a 9th tower, and its stone is the mane. The Cat pile refer to when The mane decided the khajiit should go live on the moon. So he ordered khajiit to climb on top of each other, into a tall pile, until they reach the moon, until “The top cat, which is the bottom cat” grab the tail of the khajiit “who is below, which is on top” him, and “pull up, which is pull down”
- lunar currency is the idea hat daedric prines uses mortal’s soul like a currency. The more follower they gained, the more soul energy they have as the mortal died and their souls goes to the daedra they worshipped.
- I believed it’s pronounced Jubal Lun-Sul, and the Lun is like Luna, so: Jubal moon-star (Lun is moon, and sul/sol is the sun which is, in TES universe, the same as the star; a hole in aetherious)
Yessss! this is the most i ever could’ve asked for, Great video boys!
I think the fact that the secrets of the Skaal aren't all that special is the point. It shows how the mad mind of Mora works; he doesn't care bout the content of their secrets, he merely cares about the fact that they know something that he doesn't. Hermaeus Mora collects knowledge, doesn't matter what kind or how useful...
Not mad, just different goals.
*Very* different.
@@JoshSweetvale Yeah, but that doesn't have added alliterative appeal.
@@martijnvanweele6204It was less than 80 years ago that calling people 'mad' got them gassed, broeder.
finally a collab of two of the best TES channels.
Plus you're all upsidedownfruits
Finally! A nice podcast to relieve me from stress at work and with Camel as well😯 thanks a lot✨💙
Something funny about you guys and cameleorks is that I can hardly tell your voices apart 🤣. Enjoy all of your guys content though. Also Camel looks nothing like what I expected 🤣
*Australian noises*
Lmao they all sounded like biological brothers.
I hope you get MxR to the episode where you talk about the "Thot box".
Let us all hail Lord Immersion
He's not a lore guy. He's just a horny guy that likes mods
1:33:39 is a reference to the kalpa and it is parthenax who mentions it when you're talking to him about killing aldoene he says something along the lines of, perhaps our world is the egg in which the next world rests would you stop the next world from being born?
Two of my favorite Skyrim UA-cam channels in one collab? Yes please!
I bet the lore masters are taking notes on this one
Well of course a collaboration with Camel would have to be no less than 2 and a half hours long hahaha
I've ALWAYS wanted Fudgmuppet and Camelworks to work together!!! I love both of their videos! YEEEEESS!!!
In regards to Cylarne, at the end of the video.
Maybe it was the capital of Jyggalag's plane of Oblivion?
I do want to put forward the idea that maybe, assuming whatever was done was in fact comparable to a nuclear bomb, by splitting the atoms with one’s sword, the “Yokuda sinking into the sea” story is just what the high ranking Yokudans told everyone else to force everyone to leave quickly and avoid people getting radiation sickness, and the violence and seeming desperation of the Warrior Waves were in fear that the radiation would follow them across the sea and that they’d doomed the world.
I'm super excited to see Camal here that's awesome. I love Camals channel
This is the most awesome collaboration ever. I can mellow out and listen to TES lore while chilling out because their voices are so calming
So glad to see camel on the show! You guys should do collaborations more often, both you guys are my favourite elder scrolls channels haha
Oh HELL YEAH, it’s so great seeing a *Camelmuppet collab* again 😎🔥
How about making a 36 part Series with each episode covering a lesson of vivec for about 40-60min?
Totally love the dynamic between the four in an over 2hrs deep lore podcast.
Michael: I'm wasted, feeling like an ash ghoul. I want to go home.
Camel: I've slept for 4 hrs before that, just vibin'!
Drew: I'm the MC now, for you shall listen to my bars!
Scott: Dunno, just a regular Tuesday afternoon for me.
Me seeing the notification for this: nice!! Heck yeah!!
Me actually reading the title and seeing "ft camelworks": nice!!!! Heck yeah!!!!
Starting now but wow I anticipate this being a legendary video. 2:30 hours of deep lore with camelworks?!?!
About Amulet of Kings, I've got the full impression that Martin used his knowledge of daedric magic and drop of Lorkhan's blood to transform into a divine dragon. Almalexia already banished Mehrunes Dagon with Lorkhan's power once. And the very form of the dragon is simply the best expression for the Septim's dynasty.
I thought it was canon that he got posessed by Akatosh.
My first time watching this 2 years later, but thank you for inviting Camel... both channels offer lore in TES and we got all in one here. Thank you FM and Camel.
Love your channel I'm new to The Elder Scrolls games your channel helps me out alot thanks for great story lines and builds you guys make the game fun
The Muppets called upon the Camel and all was well in Tamriel.
Camelworks has some dope ass hair. Drew with the same hair becomes to powerful for reality
I need this
Camel's head hair is also pretty good.
I have waited for this to happen. And I am sooooooo happy that it's the length of a decently lengthy film.
Theory: Yokuda is where the fallout games happen
Edit: My headcannon is that the 'secrets of the Skaal' that hermaeus mora wants is how they make stahlrim weapons/armor
Storn himself describes it as just Wilderness Survival stuff, 'how to skin a horker' et al.
Woah, the Tsaesci Goa'uld theory is craaazy good.
The Tsaesci are parasitic worms or snakes that "eat" their host and then "become" their host. Thus when they change host they "shed their skin". All of their shapeshifting would be them body-jacking a new host.
I love that one.
(Edit: Also, like the Goa'uld of Stargate, this would make them immortal as they live within the host until its natural death.)
Wow, "Inception" is really different to how I remember it huh
I needed more Camel in my life and having all 4 of you together is a blessing in my life
Getting to see all four of your faces at the same time is astounding. It is beyond pleasing to put a face to such familiar voices.
More episodes with Camel, if he and his luscious locks have the schedule to accommodate.
Perfect member to add to the podcasts as a semi-regular.
You guys should do a podcast where you find photos/drawing that most accurately represent what certain creatures and things in the game would look like if going straight off of lore
The fact that I know some of these makes me really happy and proud to be honest
If this podcast starts back up and Drew's not in it I'll cry. If that does happen though I hope they bring camel back.
Watching stuff like this almost makes me want to see them run through the lore of mods like vigilant. Always great to watch these.
Ah, my favourite part of every Sunday. And hi Camel!
I've really enjoyed these iceberg episodes, and the collaborations. It's a fun spattering of deep lore (and memes).
Concerning the magical language, it could really be referring to quite a few things, as was said in the video, but I personally think it's referring to the unusual script lining the eye of magnus, and all over the black books.
Actually jiib was in oblivion in kavatch where a hooded dremora attacks check the house he jumps from he is just a torn corpse and by the bed his head is there same look from morrowind with some newer texture
Turns out he was soul-trapped. ^_^
Ah yes! Thank you again! Can’t wait for more Skyrim lore!
This. This is beauty.
In this, there is symmetry.
41:07
Myth-echo is a term that comes from the Song of Pelinal v6
"Still others, like Fifd of New Teed, say that beneath the Pelinal's star-armor was a chest that gaped open to show no heart, only a red rage shaped diamond-fashion, singing like a mindless dragon, and that this was proof that he was a *myth*- *echo* , and that where he trod were shapes of the first urging."
UESP links it to the et'Ada, which is a really interesting idea that I kind of prefer over the idea that it's just another poetic description of mantling and Shezarines (in Pelinal's case an... Akatoshine??).
Dammit, I wanna argue at a pub for 30 minutes about Yokuda possibly never sinking.
Somehow, hearing about these theories adds (even) more depth to the world for me, and makes new RP runs interesting even after so long a pause between games. Thanks much!
Time winds and unwinds in mysterious paths, like the shifting sands of the alik'r that brought a camel to a mysterious land of the scholars named fudge
Two things I've learned...
I'd kill for an episode with Kirkbride.
I'd kill for an episode about determinism.
I _hate_ determinism.
Kirkbride constitutionally won't actually do anything useful.
Bring Camel back for the next one!! This was so much fun! 😁
Super excited to see Camel joining my favorite Fudgemuppets in this podcast! Dream come true! Thank you guys for your hard work on this iceberg list, I really enjoyed listening to the four of you unravel it. I’m surprised no one zero summed in the process yet! There was mention at some point about Michael Kirkbride being a guest. Sounded like you guys were kidding, but hey, I can dream right? Wouldn’t that be the icing on the sweet roll....
I think "lorkhan's purposeful failure" is referring to him failing to achieve CHIM. Kirkbride made a forum post years ago answering questions about CHIM and the psijic endeavor. He said something about lorkhan failing to achieve CHIM on purpose so others would know how avoid the same fate. It on the imperial library and called "more on the psijic endeavor."
My dream is to see another video where you guys, camelworks and zaric are together
Its all good guys, i dont have to cry now that I know camelworks is the guest
Gameshow idea:
"Master of Muppets".
Camel hosts. He asks the muppets Elder Scrolls questions to find out who is the ultimate lore-master among the 3 muppets.
Lol these two channels are what I listen too when I’m trying to relax, nice to see them together!
Very late, but a few notes on things that could do with further clarification:
- Creatia gets mentioned in the Nu-Mantia Intercept
- Yes, Sithis is the book that claims the Aedra are bad. It uses that framework to present how the Nerevarine should deceive Dagoth Ur.
- The line art of Skar is MK's own art, as far as I remember
- Myth-echo - an imitation of something else in general, not sure it's related to kalpas as such. Like the Shezarrine is a myth-echo of Shezarr/Lorkhan
- Talos ate all the dragons - Any dragons disappeared around Talos' time. Went into hiding at least, given Paarthurnax
- Eye of Argonia - wasn't there a reference to that in the ESO Murkmire DLC? The amber that holds a tribe or something like that
- Walking Ways - ways to "reach heaven by violence", not necessarily to godhood itself. The Ways aren't exactly codified - the Loveletter from the Fifth Era is taken as "the list", but I think that's wrong personally. It talks about CHIM and "the Endeavour" as different things, but there's an MK forum post that says that the Endeavour is a means of achieving CHIM.
- Amaranth is not about replacing the godhead, it's the creation of a new universe. Not the replacement of the current one.
- Twelve Worlds of Creation - compare the mashing of the Twelve Worlds by Anu with the creation of the world in the Redguard myth. I personally think the Twelve Worlds are previous kalpas.
- Snow-Throat's stone actually IS supposed to be "the Cave", but that's possibly more a metaphor than an actual cave. Like Jung's Cave in psychoanalysis, or Plato's Cave in philosophy
- Nirn as Jupiter - that's a possible reference to a pitch that MK and Kurt Kuhlmann made, that eventually became Morrowind. There was the idea of a game set around the moons of Jupiter, where plants and metal being really scarce, so the brass cannonballs that were shot by the spaceships all had names, and everyone ate bonemeal. There's a forum post somewhere explaining it, but that's all I remember.
- University of Gwylim - they're the university behind the Antiquarians faction in ESO, where the Antiquities skills come from
- YOU CAN'T USE KEENING TO ZERO SUM! Also, not necessarily linked to CHIM, in my opinion. The biggest text we have on Zero Sum gives no real mention of CHIM
- Ruling King - someone who achieved a Walking Way, as well as the King who is overthrown by the Rebel in an enantiomorphic event.
- PSJJJJ - It's in Vehk's Teaching. To reflect the impossibility of Anu doing something.
- Second Aperture is literally someone's backside. The 36 Lessons claim Lie Rock is Vivec's turd. Consider what that means with regard to the practice of piercing the Second Aperture, which the sages "hide from Muatra"(= Vivec's penis)
- Hurling Disc is a reference to dragon breaks. Referenced by the Marukhati as well as the 36 Lessons. If the world is a wheel with spokes for the Aedra etc, when the spokes are gone (=it becomes a disc), the rules of nature are broken. The Marukhati used it to manipulate Akatosh.
- Lorkhan also possibly purposefully failed at CHIM, if you believe Vehk's Teachings text.
- The Khajiit Tower is referenced in the Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi, that if the moons fall the Khajiit will climb on each others' shoulders to put the moons "back on their courses"
- The Provisional House is also called "the space that is not a space", and other terms. It's basically Vivec's "thought-space", where ze goes in order to contemplate and attempt to achieve a form of enlightenment. A fourth-wall theory also has it as being the Construction Kit.
- Dagoth Ur Endgame - Yes, it's about Dagoth Ur wanting to subsume everything. The phrase that I've seen to explain it is that if CHIM is I AM AND I ARE ALL WE, Dagoth Ur is aiming for I AM AND YOU ARE ALL ME. IceFireWarden/At-Hatoor wrote a great piece on it on /r/teslore, called Anti-CHIM: A theory and... something
- The Enantiomorph is the idea of two opposites resolving. The Rebel overtaking the King, with the help of the Observer (who is often said to "resolve" the Enantiomorph). The Observer is maimed in the process. There are tons of these in the Elder Scrolls, most particularly TES3.
- Vivec the Rebel overthrows Nerevar the King, and Alandro Sul the Observer is blinded.
- Padomay the Rebel overthrows Nir the King, and Anu the Observer is crippled by grief
- Lorkhan the King is overthrown by Akatosh the Rebel, aided by Trinimac the Observer who is later maimed by Boethiah
- Dagoth Ur the King is overthrown by the Rebel Nerevarine, aided by the Observer Vivec, who later disappears
- Mehrunes Dagon the King is defeated by the Rebel Martin, aided by the Observer the Champion of Cyrodiil, who later becomes Sheogorath (who is portrayed as blind)
Sithis as the "secret lesson of Vivec" is the idea that Vivec wrote the book Sithis (the "go unto the Sharmat Dagoth Ur as a friend" book). The book also references the 36 Lessons.
- Bendu Olo is also the "placeholder name" for every character in Bethesda promotional materials
- Lunar currency is often taken by fans to be souls, because all of that stuff about spirits going to their aligned AE.
- Mnemo-Li is implied to be a single entity in the Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes
- There are indications that the Bosmer used to worship Hircine, before turning to Y'ffrre
- Arniel Garne doesn't Zero Sum. It's also unlikely that the Dwemer did, in my opinion
- the Abnegaurbic Creed is probably closer to Dwemer philosophy than anything. MK has described their philosophy as "the heroic abrogation of everything". Sounds like abnegation, anyway.
- re joy snow... Cocaine is also called blow...
- The Sharmat is potentially more than Dagoth Ur. It's the mythical enemy of the Dunmer people. I seem to remember that Kagrenac is called the "first blighter" and such, and I've heard arguments that Miraak qualifies as a Sharmat.
- there's a suggestion in ESO that a "sword-stroke" sank Yokuda. The name Pankratosword isn't mentioned, though
CHIM is the player aiding the character. [Console commands]
Amaranth is the *author* aiding the character. [Kirkbride mary-sue-ing Vivec]
@@JoshSweetvale Sure, if you want to do a fourth-wall read. That's not the only valid interpretation, however.
@@AramithiusIt's a good way to clearly differentiate abstract concepts.
This was great the vibe between yall and cammel is awesome
These be the best podcasts ever, and with Camel man its like a wet dream
So happy to see Camel guest spotting with you guys!
OMG amazing podcast as usual! I love deep cleaning my house while listening to deep lore XD
I'm glad to see you guys teamed up! Camel is my other source for TES lore. Hopefully we see more collaboration between the two of your channels. You guys have covered a lot of the same stuff, some of it being a little contradictory (like the mysteries series). That's why I liked watching both; so seeing you guys discuss topics together is awesome!
I like how 70% of this is just reading the theory title then being like "yea that's kirkbride stuff".
Just finished at 12 hour day in the kitchen and I’m using this as my way to inwind. Couldn’t think of anything better. You all are the best. Bring camel on more often please! You all have such great conversations.
Love the four of you so damn much! You have made Sunday my favourite day of the week ☝️🤣
Been looking forward all week to more fudge muppet pod casts 😀 🤩 ❤️ and thanks team so good to us fans to get Camel on 🐪 🐪. As a fan this is pinnacle lore indulgence as I love both channels and re watch them. 🙏
"Akavir is the future, Tamriel is present, Yokuda is the past and Atmosa is frozen in time" is literaly just timezones.
I used to not care for camel for aome reason, but I fell in love. Especially his detective videos and interview with Ted Peterson
This is a super cool collaboration! Y’all should do this from time to time I watch both channels and really enjoy mix ups like this
You guys should get ESO on for the podcast. Great collab with camel btw.
Fudge bois and camel man! my favorites!
My two favorite elder scrolls UA-cam channels!! Love it!
It’s so good to hear Camel’s voice. It’s been a good few months